Coronavirus Pandemic

[Letters]

Pie

[Globalgunner]

That was quite good

[Niall_Quinn]

Is that really how it works - what kind of idiot is going to sign up for that?

I've already reported you. Expect a knock on the door.

[GP]

Pie

Durham Police have confirmed that Cummings did breach lockdown.

[Niall_Quinn]

Will you ever stop crying about Brexit?

[Letters]

At least we agree he's not the philanthropist he claims to be. He's an investor.

Can't he be both? Those two things aren't a contradiction. He's been very successful in business and with investments, he's used some of that success to help others. He didn't have to do that, he could have dicked around putting stuff in space like Musk has (not that I think that is a terrible thing to be doing either).

The point of the video is to question Gates' motives for giving money away.
Is it to make money? That doesn't really check out, he'd be worth a lot more had he not.
Is it because he's into Eugenics? The only real basis is that his dad and some of his associates were, there's some quote about end of life support from Gates but that's a complicated area where difficult decisions must be made. Certainly not an indication that he believes that certain people are "less worthy" of life. His work with poorer nations rather undermines the idea that he believes himself and his ilk to be superior.

So is it about control then? Well, not much evidence is presented but it's certainly true that Gates has fingers in lots of pies - I'd agree, probably too many but when you have that amount of money to invest it's going to be spread all over the place. And some of his practices have been questionable, trying to make it so everyone had to use IE, buying up companies who they saw as potential competitors. But these are also factors in being a company that big and powerful, every company that big wants to have a monopoly. Facebook now do the same - they bought WhatsApp for example. Ironic that Microsoft made a couple of attempts to by Facebook in its early days.

When you're head of an organisation that big you're going to have a lot of power and influence. I think it's fine to be concerned about that, where it becomes a conspiracy theory is to assert with no real evidence that his motive is to control. Maybe he just wants to help people. You can debate whether he's going about things the right way or doing the right things, but you have an underlying cynicism about pretty much everyone's motives. I don't know how you square that with a recently expressed belief that people are generally decent.

Genuinely can't believe you said that I "can't simply say [I] disagree but instead seek to discredit those who have a different opinion". Are you just trolling? That is literally your go to tactic with anyone and every person or organisation you disagree with. I didn't "seek" to discredit Corbett by the way, I've already dealt with that. You accused me of searching out what you called a "hit piece" on him. Actually all I did was click on the first link I found which wasn't his own site. And what did you do, other than call it a "hit piece"? You tried to discredit the site it was from. Irony, much?

I'm not imprisoned and nor are you, there are no bars. You're the one freely doing what you want but declaring yourself to be in jail. You declare the lockdown dead and witness people going about doing as they please while you wring your hands about how controlled we are. In some countries I could get locked up for going to church or even owning a Bible, in some countries I'd have far less freedom than I do here. Obviously I can't literally do anything I want, there are some rules, that is the price of living in a society. But in exchange we have infrastructure and comfort. To me it's a fair exchange. If the argument is that control is coming, well, people have been saying that for decades.

I don't know why Ferguson has the ear of the politicians but working with and in the Civil Service for as long as I have I know there is a lot of incompetence around. Bad decisions have been made at my place based on bad advice by people who don't know what they're doing. Neither the people giving the advice nor the people taking it are doing so with any malicious intent, they're just idiots. I'm more inclined to think it's idiocy than part of some master-plan. And yes, it's absolutely the politician's fault if they act on bad advice. It is literally their job to make decisions and policy. Ferguson's paper is publicly available, as is all his previous work. If his models are as bad as you suggest then it's not hard to find that out - you did - and take that into account when taking advice and making decisions. Yes, of course money buys influence but ultimately the buck stops with the people making the decisions.

What "game" do you think I'm playing with the covid league tables? I've been fairly consistently looking at the deaths per million stats, calling out the US and the UK as doing poorly based on the data. You have been looking at the same data but then saying how well the US has been doing by declaring the data fake when it doesn't show that.

I have no contempt for Corbett, automated or otherwise. I have no "conditioned response" - any more than you have when you see what he has to say, see it fits in with your world view and you wag your tail. It didn't hurt me to listen, I did listen. I watched the videos you posted, found them full of contradictions, twisted facts, out of context quotes and conjecture. Are they being removed from public? He's still there. As Ricky Gervais lamented, it used to be "my opinion is as good as your opinion", now it's "my opinion is as good as your fact". You can have an opinion about anything but if your opinion is "5G is spreading coronavirus" which has no basis in reality, you spout that opinion across the internet and people attack 5G towers (or towers which aren't 5G because they're idiots and don't know which is which) then yeah, that's a bad thing. "They" are not trying to suppress views which aren't the mainstream, if they were then Corbett would be long gone. But removing things which are demonstrably bullshit and could cause people to come to harm if they believe it - or at least warning people it's bullshit. Seems fairly reasonable.

No, there will never be one opinion, never has been. This dystopia you imagine isn't happening. If anything it's going the other way - we are now in an era when anyone can spout anything across the internet with no oversight or consequence. The old adage that a lie travels twice around the world before the truth has got its boots on is truer than ever. It's no coincidence that belief in FE is proliferating in an era when the loonies who used to shout on street corners can now shout across the internet and reach a large audience. (Not the first time I've mentioned them, they are a little obsession of mine, my mind is boggled that people could believe that sort of claptrap). Belief in FE is fairly benign, as these things go. It's slightly depressing how scientifically illiterate people are but whatever, doesn't really matter. But believing that vaccines are linked to autism is less benign. That entire belief, which is worryingly widespread, is based on one since discredited study which the press plastered all over their front pages to much hand wringing.

You are increasingly sounding like Harry Enfield's "Is that what you want? 'Cos that's what'll 'appen" character. But it won't happen. It won't happen because "they" aren't trying to control you. They aren't trying to help you either, particularly, I don't think they really care about you either way.

[Mac76]

“might have been a minor breach of the regulations that would have warranted police intervention”.

how pathetic - was it or wasn't it?

we all know the answer - it was, but the police are ducking out of it - i guess because it's not some powerless member of the public who they can bully around with impunity

From the Telegraph:




Exclusive: Dominic Cummings row re-erupts as police deliver verdict on lockdown 'breach'

Investigation concludes Boris Johnson's most senior aide might have broken lockdown rules when he drove to Barnard Castle
By Martin Evans, CRIME CORRESPONDENT 28 May 2020 • 4:51pm


Dominic Cummings might have broken lockdown rules when he made a 50-mile journey to Barnard Castle, an investigation by Durham Police has concluded.

The Prime Minister’s most senior aide claimed he made the trip on Easter Sunday, with his wife and four-year-old son, to check he was fit to drive after suffering coronavirus-related eyesight problems.

Mr Cummings insisted he had acted “lawfully and reasonably” at all times when he made the 260-mile journey from London to Durham to self-isolate at his parents’ farm at the end of March.

But an investigation by Durham Police concluded he might have committed a "minor breach" of the guidelines when he drove to Barnard Castle on April 12.

However the force, which according to the most recent data, has issued 137 fines for lockdown breaches, said it would not be taking any further action against Mr Cummings.

The force said it had investigated Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) evidence, had interviewed a witness and had reviewed the information provided by Mr Cummings at his press conference before arriving at its conclusion.

It has spoken to Mr Cummings directly to inform him of its decision.
No retrospective action for 'minor breach'

The force said it did not consider Mr Cummings had breached the regulations when self-isolating at his father’s farm in Durham at the end of March but that the trip to Barnard Castle did constitute a “minor breach”.

Its statement said the journey “might have been a minor breach of the regulations that would have warranted police intervention”.

The statement went on: “Durham Constabulary view this is as minor because there was no apparent breach of social distancing.

“Had a Durham Constabulary police officer stopped Mr Cummings driving to or from Barnard Castle, the officer would have spoken to him, and, having established the facts, likely advised Mr Cummings to return to the address, in Durham, providing advice on the dangers of travelling during the pandemic crisis. Had this advice been accepted by Mr Cummings, no enforcement action would have been taken.”

The Durham force said that in line with its approach throughout the pandemic it would not be taking retrospective action against Mr Cummings as that would amount to him being treated differently from other members of the public.
No 10: the issue is closed

Responding to the news, a No 10 spokesman said: "The police have made clear they are taking no action against Mr Cummings over his self-isolation and that going to Durham did not breach the regulations. The Prime Minister has said he believes Mr Cummings behaved reasonably and legally given all the circumstances and he regards this issue as closed."

Boris Johnson has repeatedly offered his support to Mr Cummings. On Wednesday - when quizzed by MPs - he insisted it was “time to move on” from the affair and refused to bow to demands for a Cabinet Office inquiry into the matter.

The Prime Minister told a committee of MPs he had “seen evidence” that proved Mr Cummings was telling the truth about his two-week stay in Durham during lockdown.

He said he “totally understood” the public’s “indignation” at Mr Cummings’s behaviour but insisted some of what had been reported was “totally false”.
Reaction to the police statement

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer said Boris Johnson has "shown himself to be weak" in dealing with the Dominic Cummings situation.

In a clip on BBC Radio 4's the World At One programme, Sir Keir said: "The most important thing here is not, you know, these technical issues, but the problem is by not dealing with Cummings in a strong way, the Prime Minister has not only shown himself to be weak, and he has shown himself to be weak - I mean he's so desperate for this adviser he'll cling on to him through thick and thin.

"More importantly, what I'm worried about is that people might think 'well,' if Cummings doesn't have to apply by the rules, why do I have to?

"Then you're on a slippery slope."

SNP leader in Westminster Ian Blackford said the Durham saga 'transcended politics'.

It is now beyond any doubt that Dominic Cummings did break lockdown rules. @BorisJohnson has no choice but to remove him from post. This is now a matter of the Prime Minister’s own integrity - and his overriding responsibility to protect public health and trust in his government. https://t.co/tdmrxp8XxZ
— Ian Blackford (@Ianblackford_MP) May 28, 2020

He added that in order for track and trace to work, "The Prime Minister must accept his responsibilities, remove Mr Cummings, and act to repair the damage this has done to the credibility of his government and public confidence in the rules".

More MPs doubled down on their criticism of the Government after The Telegraph broke the news.

The police have confirmed Cummings did break the rules. Johnson’s claim he acted “responsibly and lawfully” is even more laughable now. Others breaching the rules have stepped down, but I doubt anyone expects Cummings or Johnson to do the honourable thing. https://t.co/xAxBeUNyaj
— Neil Coyle (@coyleneil) May 28, 2020

The full statement from police

"On 27 March 2020, Dominic Cummings drove to Durham to self-isolate in a property owned by his father.

"Durham Constabulary does not consider that by locating himself at his father’s premises, Mr Cummings committed an offence contrary to regulation 6 of the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020. (We are concerned here with breaches of the Regulations, not the general Government guidance to “stay at home”.)

"On 12 April 2020, Mr Cummings drove approximately 26 miles from his father’s property to Barnard Castle with his wife and son. He stated on 25 May 2020 that the purpose of this drive was to test his resilience to drive to London the following day, including whether his eyesight was sufficiently recovered, his period of self-isolation having ended.

"Durham Constabulary have examined the circumstances surrounding the journey to Barnard Castle (including ANPR, witness evidence and a review of Mr Cummings’ press conference on 25 May 2020) and have concluded that there might have been a minor breach of the Regulations that would have warranted police intervention. Durham Constabulary view this as minor because there was no apparent breach of social distancing.

"Had a Durham Constabulary police officer stopped Mr Cummings driving to or from Barnard Castle, the officer would have spoken to him, and, having established the facts, likely advised Mr Cummings to return to the address in Durham, providing advice on the dangers of travelling during the pandemic crisis. Had this advice been accepted by Mr Cummings, no enforcement action would have been taken.

"In line with Durham Constabulary’s general approach throughout the pandemic, there is no intention to take retrospective action in respect of the Barnard Castle incident since this would amount to treating Mr Cummings differently from other members of the public. Durham Constabulary has not taken retrospective action against any other person.

"By way of further context, Durham Constabulary has followed Government guidance on management of alleged breaches of the regulations with the emphasis on the NPCC and College of Policing 4Es: Engage, Explain and Encourage before Enforcement.

"Finally, commentary in the media has suggested that Mr Cummings was in Durham on 19 April 2020. Mr Cummings denies this and Durham Constabulary have seen insufficient evidence to support this allegation.

"Therefore Durham Constabulary will take no further action in this matter and has informed Mr Cummings of this decision."
Force praised for policing 'without fear of favour'

Steve White, the Acting Durham Police, Crime and Victims’ Commissioner, said: “I am grateful to the Chief Constable for the work that the constabulary has conducted in extremely difficult circumstances and the comprehensive and proportionate consideration of the facts.

"I felt it important that the people of Durham and Darlington could see that the force is, and remains, fair in its approach to policing the issues arising out of the Covid-19 crisis and that it will continue to police without fear or favour.

“I am sure that the communities across the force area will continue to do their very best in preventing the spread of this disease and will continue to support the force as it works hard to decipher and provide education to the public as it polices the changing advice, regulations and legislation.

"Clarity is paramount if we are to defeat this threat, and clarity has now been provided by the force in relation to the matter concerning Mr Cummings as things stood on the dates in question.”

[GP]

Might, means was.

Here a Barrister explains why.

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/...86473955819520

[Mac76]

Might, means was.

Here a Barrister explains why.

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/...86473955819520

that's it then - he has to go

[Marc Overmars]

Groups of 6 people can officially meet outdoors.

That’s been happening for weeks Boris.