Coronavirus Pandemic

[Niall_Quinn]

By the way - there's nothing scattergun about my initial response. Examine it again. Your irrational hatred for the one candidate who favours normality (warts and all) compared to the insanity being ushered in by the left puts you in the latter camp whether you like it or not. If you won't speak out against this insanity then you aren't necessarily part of it (though your own words suggest you are), but when you then attack people who say fuck, this is insane - you've joined the club buddy. You've checked in to the nuthouse with all those other weirdos.

[Xhaka Can’t]

You used to be a balanced, reasonable, rational individual. And now this.

Everyone has always known what I am. I haven't changed. You have. You can make these crazy justifications to yourself and believe them. That's not my business, I don't care, but it should be a problem for you.

All this redacted, unsubstantiated bullshit you are going on about. So what? It's the stuff that hasn't been redacted and has been substantiated that you have to explain away. And you are trying to do that by roping everything in with a single excuse you can cling to.

Here's the fact that underlies it all. Obama's administration and the FBA colluded to undermine the Trump campaign and then the Trump presidency. That's what the evidence we have says. And that's not even close to the main problem, illegal as it is. The main problem is they then turned the whole thing around and accused their victim of their own crime.

And I told you all this before anything came to light. Because only a fool would have ever believed the ridiculous and transparent efforts of the establishment to derail a presidency they never wanted. Much like Brexit.

My "conspiracy theories" are supported by fact. Yours aren't. You can try and spin it any way you want, I can't stop you. But you should probably try to stop yourself. Your choice though.

“All this redacted, unsubstantiated bullshit you are going on about. So what?”

Read that, you wrote it.

Seriously? Do you really want to stand by that?

You go on to say your theories are supported by fact. They aren’t. They’re based on half truths and lies and twisted into what you want to believe.

We all do that to an extent to be fair because we are biased and are trying to make sense of the nonsensical.

Did Obama’s administration collude with the FBI? I don’t know if they did or didn’t. But I sure as fuck know the FBI loosened the bolts on the Clinton campaign wheels on the week of the election.

[Globalgunner]

NQ. You undermine all.of your cogent points with your unabated fixation with the "left". You claim it's just a blanket misnomer for all the people that you oppose but your ranting about them loses you all credibility. Anyone who sees the existential issues clearly will easily see that the corporate democrats exemplified by Obama. Clinton and the awful Pelosi has nothing in common with true leftists like Bernie and Corbyn. Conflating Wall street demagogues with those who want to change the system only depicts you as seeing blindly through a red mist of rage. Surely the first thing any ideologue should do is identify the enemy and laser focus on his faults. Instead you rage Incessantly against imagined foes. True Trump has been done nasty by the Democrats but he is not a smart enough man to occupy the office he holds even you can see that. However those who wish to replace him only want a return to the old normal where dastardly things are done with veneer of decency. Trump is as much of a puppet as the demented old coot the Democratic party wants to foist on the planet. Trump follows his ego. Has no intellectual grasp of the existential issues at stake and is easily led astray even from policies that are dear to him.

Back to you. You seem to agree that the world is fucked but you dont want anyone to do anything about it. Everyone who doesn't share your worldview is a mortal enemy and anyone who has issues others than yours is grossly deluded. Most laughable of all you believe global warming is a hoax despite all the glaringly obvious evidence right in front of you. If you were the messenger for any movement you are a terrible bard. Persuading no one and turning all your audience right the fuck off.

[Globalgunner]

“All this redacted, unsubstantiated bullshit you are going on about. So what?”

Read that, you wrote it.

Seriously? Do you really want to stand by that?

You go on to say your theories are supported by fact. They aren’t. They’re based on half truths and lies and twisted into what you want to believe.

We all do that to an extent to be fair because we are biased and are trying to make sense of the nonsensical.

Did Obama’s administration collude with the FBI? I don’t know if they did or didn’t. But I sure as fuck know the FBI loosened the bolts on the Clinton campaign on the week of the election.

I think you slightly misread the tea leaves. James Comey did nothing to undermine Hillary, just my opinion. Thats just another of her woeful excuses. Comey was in on the whole thing. He was the prime mover of the entrapment sting on Trump. He like everyone ws 100% sure Clinton would win even with his report being out. If Comey had any thought that he would cost her the election he wouldnt have released that report. It was a cover your ass move to present a modicum of impartiality in case the report got leaked after the fact. From afar its hard to understand how much the ordinary person outside the democrats stronghold detests all things Clinton .

[Xhaka Can’t]

What you say is possible, but it I s incongruent with my recollection of how things were playing out at the time. There was no reason political or otherwise for conspiracists to shoot their own candidate in the foot days before an election.

[Globalgunner]

What you say is possible, but it I s incongruent with my recollection of how things were playing out at the time. There was no reason political or otherwise for conspiracists to shoot their own candidate in the foot days before an election.

Comey mistakenly thought he would be kept on by Clinton after the election. He knew the report would leak. Maybe he could have been impeached by a republican house. He was just taking care of himself. Everything that has come out since shows Comey was point man on the Trump probe. Even his deputy Sally Yates this week threw him under the bus. Best laid plans and all that. Dont forget she was still 10 points clear on election day

[Xhaka Can’t]

But what was going to leak? If there was anything substantive, the lock her up crowd would have managed just that.

Also, iirc, the polling was much much closer than you suggest. Somewhere around 5%, and anything adverse would just take her within the margin of error which tends to be +/-2.5%.

Additionally, you can bet your ass the Dems were doing their own internal polling, internally and across the Battleground States. They’ll have known this wasn’t in the bag.

It doesn’t make sense. At all.

[Niall_Quinn]

“All this redacted, unsubstantiated bullshit you are going on about. So what?”

Read that, you wrote it.

Seriously? Do you really want to stand by that?

You go on to say your theories are supported by fact. They aren’t. They’re based on half truths and lies and twisted into what you want to believe.

We all do that to an extent to be fair because we are biased and are trying to make sense of the nonsensical.

Did Obama’s administration collude with the FBI? I don’t know if they did or didn’t. But I sure as fuck know the FBI loosened the bolts on the Clinton campaign wheels on the week of the election.

Nice try.

You take the part I dismissed and then try to create that as my central argument.

So dishonest and desperate.

I talked about what we DO know, what has been opened up to the public. The FISA abuses. The documents, in their own words, that confirm they were collaborating to overturn an election. But you can't possibly confront this and have your "uncertainty" about the facts be dispelled. I ignore the speculation and go with what is established. You dwell in the speculation and try to claim maybe, maybe this is why reality can be overlooked.

[Niall_Quinn]

What you say is possible, but it I s incongruent with my recollection of how things were playing out at the time. There was no reason political or otherwise for conspiracists to shoot their own candidate in the foot days before an election.

Probably because you are fucking delusional. If you can't see through the whole Russiagate thing then how could you be expected to glimpse any of the other goings on?

[Niall_Quinn]

NQ. You undermine all.of your cogent points with your unabated fixation with the "left". You claim it's just a blanket misnomer for all the people that you oppose but your ranting about them loses you all credibility. Anyone who sees the existential issues clearly will easily see that the corporate democrats exemplified by Obama. Clinton and the awful Pelosi has nothing in common with true leftists like Bernie and Corbyn. Conflating Wall street demagogues with those who want to change the system only depicts you as seeing blindly through a red mist of rage. Surely the first thing any ideologue should do is identify the enemy and laser focus on his faults. Instead you rage Incessantly against imagined foes. True Trump has been done nasty by the Democrats but he is not a smart enough man to occupy the office he holds even you can see that. However those who wish to replace him only want a return to the old normal where dastardly things are done with veneer of decency. Trump is as much of a puppet as the demented old coot the Democratic party wants to foist on the planet. Trump follows his ego. Has no intellectual grasp of the existential issues at stake and is easily led astray even from policies that are dear to him.

Back to you. You seem to agree that the world is fucked but you dont want anyone to do anything about it. Everyone who doesn't share your worldview is a mortal enemy and anyone who has issues others than yours is grossly deluded. Most laughable of all you believe global warming is a hoax despite all the glaringly obvious evidence right in front of you. If you were the messenger for any movement you are a terrible bard. Persuading no one and turning all your audience right the fuck off.

Several times I have talked about the "left" and carefully excluded that small vocal number, and large silent number, who still coincide with the traditional left. Labour focused politics, not class, not race, not gender. But tell me. Where are they now? Where is their voice? If they won't join the debate then how surprising is it they get overlooked? I actually have a lot of respect for the traditional left, having grown up in that environment. I don't agree or disagree with their ideals. I straddle the fence, between the rather obvious notion that a man's labour is his own (a supremely libertarian principle) and the pragmatic (hold your nose) idea we need some sort of coordinating structure to hold society together. Constraining the power of that structure is what I'm about, and it is not mutually exclusive to upholding core principles of labour (not the party, the process).

I suppose we could start a huge debate on Corbyn and Saunders. Is it worth it? For me, based on the evidence, they are worst than the worst Tories, more foul than the most distasteful Republican. At least the latter two stick to their beliefs and don't sell out their own. The same can not be said of Corbyn and Saunders. Cowardice and duplicity are not characteristics I tolerate to any degree. There is never an excuse for being a coward. It makes me feel sick watching them.

The rest of it, way off the mark and not worth going into a big thing about. But I do appreciate a considered response at least.