Coronavirus Pandemic

[Ollie the Optimist]

You'll like this one too, then:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56517486

And actually on this occasion I have fairly consistently said that I don't think vaccines should be mandatory and feared they would become so - if not by law then in effect with "no jab, no job" rules or an inability to travel without one.
So while I've been sceptical about much of your prophesying about a dystopian authoritarian state we are sliding into, I was always worried about this. And, while we are here, the laws around public protests are worrying too.

When you read that article or listen to Boris, he says that pubs etc can decide for themselves if they want non vaccinated people to come in. Freedom of choice for the business owner rather than being mandated by the state so will be interesting to see how NQ deals with that

On a serious note, i fully understand bringing in passports for travel abroad as this is out of our control. yes we can negotiate with countries to allow hassle free travel but ultimately if a country decides that all visitors must show a Covid passport then our governemnt needs to bring one in to allow travel.

However, that does not mean they should be in use for our daily lives. I read at the weekend the Culture Secretary saying that Wembley could be full for the Euros with people showing proof of vaccination. That is likely to exclude most people under 35 from attending. The same goes for pubs, theatres etc, you cannot exclude young people who have given up the past year to protect the eldery on the basis they are back of the queue.


On the mandatory vaccine issue, it has been impressive how high the take up has been so far in this country. However, there has been talk about it being required for care workers. This is not a new step as they already have to have the Hepatitis jab in order to work in care homes and being honest, given the main people in care are either eldery or vulnerable who are most at risk, i think it is unlikely many care workers will refuse the vaccine

[Letters]

When you read that article or listen to Boris, he says that pubs etc can decide for themselves if they want non vaccinated people to come in. Freedom of choice for the business owner rather than being mandated by the state

If that's so then I suspect most pubs will be "yeah, sod that".
Like last year when you had to be in the same household or bubble to sit inside the pubs I went into were either,
"you are in the same household, aren't you? *wink*", or they were just sitting you at adjacent tables or not checking at all.

However, that does not mean they should be in use for our daily lives. I read at the weekend the Culture Secretary saying that Wembley could be full for the Euros with people showing proof of vaccination. That is likely to exclude most people under 35 from attending. The same goes for pubs, theatres etc, you cannot exclude young people who have given up the past year to protect the elderly on the basis they are back of the queue.
On the mandatory vaccine issue, it has been impressive how high the take up has been so far in this country. However, there has been talk about it being required for care workers. This is not a new step as they already have to have the Hepatitis jab in order to work in care homes and being honest, given the main people in care are either elderly or vulnerable who are most at risk, i think it is unlikely many care workers will refuse the vaccine

Interesting point about care workers and Hepatitis. I didn't know that was already mandated. It kinda makes sense but people who work in these sorts of jobs are really badly exploited, they have no power so if things like vaccines are mandatory then they can't just walk away. MrsL used to work in care and they're not valued. She can't get her head around the idea that I can, say, go out for a walk when I've got a gap between meetings or can run errands.
I'm basically against the idea of vaccines being mandated by law or by rules which mean you basically have to get it if you want to do anything.
I don't understand this obsession with vaccinating every single person.

[Niall_Quinn]

Guys, you are all missing the issue here. We've moved past the should we or shouldn't we stage. Old news.

Now it's should we - before everyone has had the chance to get vaccinated?

I trust the government to do the right thing here, in the interests of liberty, and wait.

It would be appalling to impose restrictions before people even had a chance to get the vaccine. That would be discrimination on a serious level.

So I'll think they'll wait.

It wouldn't be appalling to impose restrictions on people who refuse to take an untested, experimental and (don't forget) unapproved drug. That would be different for... reasons.

Haven't checked in to see if they have renewed the Fascism Bill. Coin toss I think. 50/50. Will they, won't they? So hard to predict.

On a happier note, the water company sent me a letter explaining they can't soften the water any more because... global warming. But they have offered some useful tips on how their low quality product can be prevented from fucking up dishwashers and washing machines. They even recommend products we can buy (if we can afford it after paying their ludicrous rates) and it's a simple as clicking on the link they provide and getting the old credit card out. Such a helpful company.

And Greta's getting a statue I hear, at one of those new universities that sprung up after the education system went to hell. I'm sure there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for putting up a statue to some kid who has done fuck all except moan about the weather, while statues of Lincoln are pulled down and Churchill is defaced.

Just another day in the new normal.

[Letters]

Haven't checked in to see if they have renewed the Fascism Bill. Coin toss I think. 50/50. Will they, won't they? So hard to predict.

They have! For another 6 months.
If you are talking about what I think you’re talking about

[Niall_Quinn]

They must have agonised over that foregone conclusion.

Anyway, I might not have to go down with the ship. Strong chance I could get out of here with the family later in the year. Off to sunnier shores where sanity still prevails. I'd always thought I'd stay and fight. Covid taught me there's nobody to fight for. If anything people now get offended at the very idea of liberty.

I can imagine a lot of people will do the same, given half a chance.

[Niall_Quinn]

Seems the Hep B vaccine is going to be the excuse for the "PAPERZ PLEEZ!" society.

Only thing is, the Hep B vaccine has been tested and approved. And is applied in specific circumstances that make medical sense, unlike this ridiculous vaccination program for healthy people. If doctors don't want to take it then they are aware IN ADVANCE there will be restrictions on their duties.

"Freedom" passports applied to the entire society is an entirely different issue. These don't imply restrictions within your profession, they imply restrictions upon your life. Very, very different and anyone who's trying to make the argument there's an equivalency here (Ollie) is bending over backwards are giving himself a blowjob.

If people are prevented from socialising and carrying out day to day activities such as shopping because they won't get doesn't up with some mystery shot then call it what it is - tyranny. Don't be trying to call it something else because that's about as disingenuous as it's possible to be.

And I notice nobody mentioned Hep B before it was rolled out as a talking point. I wasn't aware of it myself. But now it's one of those, oh yes, everybody knows that apologies. It's a bit pathetic really, that grown adults behave like this.

Besides, with the remarkable take-up rate of this maybe wonder drug/ maybe poison (nobody knows yet), why would a few stragglers pose any threat at all to the immaculate classes? Can anyone explain? Or is it possible this vaccine actually does fuck all, except make a few people rich? It's a serious question. If the vast majority are going to get vaccinated and the vaccine stops them getting seriously ill, then hasn't that rendered Covid equivalent to the common cold for the vaccinated majority? Isn't it the few who don't get vaccinated that are at risk? Or is that old science rather than the new pseudo-science?

Their arguments don't stack up at all, do they? Unless the new normal is to prevent people getting any type of illness. Which seems to be the case with Covid. The magic vaccine is 100% effective (lie that was quickly debunked in the States, but I notice no retraction of the fake news that was posted here). People who catch a cold will feel a bit shitty. People who catch flu will feel a bit shittier. Vaccinated people who catch Covid will feel somewhere in-between, apparently.

So what is the actual problem with a few people not taking the vaccine? The scientific problem, I mean. Not the emotional blackmail problem being pushed by the fake news BBC.

When is science going to re-enter this debate? Actual science rather than SAGE shite.

Which reminds me, Boris made a show of himself in front of the Liaison Committee, didn't he? Well worth the watch as he virtually admits we'd better get used to non-elected fucks, like the utterly corrupted cunts from SAGE, announcing policy on the fly before it has even been discussed by parliament.

In the future Boris' most frequent quote will be used to measure his puppet premiership - "Er, um, ah, well, you know...!"

[Niall_Quinn]

Freedom of choice for the business owner rather than being mandated by the state so will be interesting to see how NQ deals with that

???

If you can't easily figure out what my response to that is then you've been grasping the wrong end of the stick. In fact, you won't like my response one little bit.

I'm 100% FINE with private businesses deciding for themselves who they want on their premises and who they want to serve. That's where the PRIVATE bit comes into it.

BUT. I'd like to see the PRIVATE bit extended so it encompasses all aspects of privacy. As it should.

If I want to set up a ramshackle shit hole that is a danger to public health, have a hiring policy that bars blacks, and then pay my staff a pittance and abuse them at every turn - that should be my business and none of the state's concern.

And I'll tell you why that's a good thing.

Because my business would go out of business pretty damn quick. No need for some government cunt to come calling, the customers would stop coming and the staff would fuck off. Rather obvious really.

As I have always said, government serves no purpose other than to perpetuate its own existence. It is not needed.

So no, I have zero problems with businesses telling me to fuck off if I refuse to take an experimental, untested and unapproved drug. I'll go to the businesses that are a lot smarter and don't impose such lunacy on their customers.

Anyway, it won't be voluntary, it will end up being mandatory because they'll be wanting to push many, many more dodgy drugs in the future. A financial rapist isn't going to stop after his first hit.

[Letters]

Famously, we don't agree about much. But I pretty much agree with most of:

Besides, with the remarkable take-up rate of this maybe wonder drug/ maybe poison (nobody knows yet), why would a few stragglers pose any threat at all to the immaculate classes? Can anyone explain? Or is it possible this vaccine actually does fuck all, except make a few people rich? It's a serious question. If the vast majority are going to get vaccinated and the vaccine stops them getting seriously ill, then hasn't that rendered Covid equivalent to the common cold for the vaccinated majority? Isn't it the few who don't get vaccinated that are at risk? Or is that old science rather than the new pseudo-science?

Their arguments don't stack up at all, do they? Unless the new normal is to prevent people getting any type of illness. Which seems to be the case with Covid. The magic vaccine is 100% effective (lie that was quickly debunked in the States, but I notice no retraction of the fake news that was posted here). People who catch a cold will feel a bit shitty. People who catch flu will feel a bit shittier. Vaccinated people who catch Covid will feel somewhere in-between, apparently.

So what is the actual problem with a few people not taking the vaccine? The scientific problem, I mean. Not the emotional blackmail problem being pushed by the fake news BBC.

What is this obsession with every single person having the vaccine? I'm under 50, I don't have any of the infamous "underlying health conditions" so why would I get the vaccine? I don't get the flu one, if I get flu then that's what my immune system is for. And I don't buy the argument of "but you're a danger to other people" - if they've had the vaccine and it's all it's cracked up to be then I'm not. One of the arguments is that not everyone can have it, but I don't think you're talking about many people there. If the issue with all this is "Save the NHS" then if most of the people who are vulnerable have been vaccinated then job done, no? And the weird thing is from the people I talk to, basically everyone is unquestioningly planning on getting jabbed. When push comes to shove I probably will, on balance I don't think it's dangerous and the medical professionals I know have had it and haven't raised any concerns (although I know many have opted not to). But it does feel like it's become mandatory in every sense but the strictly legal one, and I don't think it needs to be.

[Letters]

If I want to set up a ramshackle shit hole that is a danger to public health, have a hiring policy that bars blacks, and then pay my staff a pittance and abuse them at every turn - that should be my business and none of the state's concern.

And I'll tell you why that's a good thing.

Because my business would go out of business pretty damn quick. No need for some government cunt to come calling, the customers would stop coming and the staff would fuck off. Rather obvious really.

Hooray! We're back to disagreeing. Normal service is resumed, folks.

I don't entirely disagree, but there are a lot of desperate, unskilled people who will get exploited if there aren't some constraints on what employers can do. Amazon don't treat their staff well (from what I've heard, I don't actually know anyone who has worked there). I mean, I'm sure the professionals get treated well, but the people on the coalface are quite badly exploited from what I've heard. But the staff don't leave because they're not skilled so don't have many other options and need to pay the bills, and the customers don't leave because the people working long shifts without a break mean I can order something now and it'll arrive tomorrow. Sure, some people want to "buy local", and that is laudable, but the reality is Amazon are cheap and efficient and people like that which is why Bezos has a solid gold house.

So, in brief, I don't think the government making some rules about what employers can and can't do is inherently a bad thing.

[Niall_Quinn]

Hooray! We're back to disagreeing. Normal service is resumed, folks.

I don't entirely disagree, but there are a lot of desperate, unskilled people who will get exploited if there aren't some constraints on what employers can do. Amazon don't treat their staff well (from what I've heard, I don't actually know anyone who has worked there). I mean, I'm sure the professionals get treated well, but the people on the coalface are quite badly exploited from what I've heard. But the staff don't leave because they're not skilled so don't have many other options and need to pay the bills, and the customers don't leave because the people working long shifts without a break mean I can order something now and it'll arrive tomorrow. Sure, some people want to "buy local", and that is laudable, but the reality is Amazon are cheap and efficient and people like that which is why Bezos has a solid gold house.

So, in brief, I don't think the government making some rules about what employers can and can't do is inherently a bad thing.

Ah, right. I get it.

Only the state should be allowed to exploit desperate people?

Because...

It's a problem because I still can't find one single excuse for government. Nobody has ever provided one valid reason why government is necessary. They all say, what about the roads, as if road couldn't be built without an utterly useless bureaucracy.