Coronavirus Pandemic

[Niall_Quinn]

Btw, if we're going by science - let's not roll out an untested, unauthorised, novel drug on the global population.

OBVIOUSLY.

[Niall_Quinn]

Anyone up for climate lockdowns?

Coming soon.

Now you have grovelled and bowed, there's no limit.

[Niall_Quinn]

This is not real. This is not happening. This person is a conspiracy theorist. If you check what this person is claiming - on approved sites - you'll find that NONE of this is happening. Remember - THIS IS NOT REAL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYwJ-yRL3bk

The only thing that is real is what the media is telling you. If you follow that simple rule you will always be fully informed by those who know best and want you to be fully informed about what they want you informed about.

Everything is normal.

There is nothing to see.

It is perfectly safe to stay asleep.

[Mac76]

[Globalgunner]

Thats an Emoji of Thor having a drink from Dr Strange`s magic tankard

[Niall_Quinn]

Thats an Emoji of Thor having a drink from Dr Strange`s magic tankard

Or a feminist chugging blackcurrant and shandy.

[Mac76]

Well i couldn't find an emoji of someone swigging from a whisky bottle while posting angry paranoid rants on GW into the early hours...

[Letters]

Wrong again. I'm playing by the SAME standard in both cases - assumption. If assumption is good enough for the rolling death feast then assumption is the standard that has been set. Therefore, let's not hear a word about maybes. You either have science or you don't. If we're going by science then let's reduce the death toll associated with the unauthorised, experimental drug. But, by the same standard, let's cut the Covid deaths down to a realistic level so we can see what we actually had was a new disease that hoovered up every other disease in it's rampant rush to be king of the hill.

In fact it's YOU that has had your cake an eaten it. You've defended the ridiculous rolling death toll but now you don't want any deaths WITH vaccine.

Well, I don't want any deaths at all.

Famously, correlation does not imply causation. So sure, just because someone has had a positive Covid test and then died, that doesn't mean they died of Covid.
And just because someone had the vaccine and then died, that doesn't mean they died from side effects caused by the vaccine.
The big difference though is in the numbers of people involved.

What I've mostly been looking at is all cause mortality. That should cut across the debate about whether Covid deaths are being inflated - it answers the question about whether more people are dying than you'd expect in a usual year.

The average in the UK for the last 5 years (before 2020) is around 534,000 deaths.
Last year it was 608,000 - 74,000 or 13.8% above the average. I'm actually surprised it's not more, but then I realised the peak of Covid deaths in the second wave was actually in mid January so of course isn't included. Actually, the cumulative total of Covid deaths up until the end of 2020 was 77,000 - quite close to that 74,000 excess deaths. An explanation for that could be that deaths from other things have stayed much the same as other years and the excess deaths are indeed mostly Covid related. It could be that Covid deaths have been hugely overstated and deaths from other things have all increased, but I'd suggest that the 74,000 and 77,000 are close enough to make the former explanation more likely. Unless you think that all the data has been fudged of course. If that's true then all bets are off. I obviously have no ability to collect my own stats about Covid or mortality so I can only base opinions on the data I see published.

It's also worth noting that the 13.8% above average figure comes against a general falling trend in death rates over the last 30 years, I guess as medicine has got better. Here's a graph of the age-standardised mortality rate since 1990. Very clear downward trend until last year:



Source:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/trans...from1990to2020
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

So that all tells me that there's clearly been something going on, something which has killed a lot of people. Mostly old people, sure, but something happened last year which was out of the ordinary and bucked the trend of the last 30 years. The fact that the number of Covid deaths is pretty close to the number of excess deaths tells me that the something is pretty likely to be Covid.

The "deaths within 28 days of a Covid test" total currently stands at about 127,000. And sure, I guess some of those people died from things which were clearly nothing to do with Covid, but how many people actually get hit by a bus each year or just drop down dead? in the context of 127,000 it must be a vanishingly small number. Your original claim was that:

In the UK alone the vaccines have killed around 600 people so far, according to the MHRA

The source I found said 460 but maybe that's out of date and it is 600. So 600 people had the vaccine, died within an unknown timeframe and someone called up to report that. So we have two statistics
127,000 people died within 28 days of a positive Covid test.
600 people died within 'n' days of receiving the vaccine.

I'd suggest that in the context of an average of 1460 people dying every day (calculated from the 5 year average I gave above, not including last year) the first of those numbers cannot be explained by coincidental deaths, the second easily could.
Especially given that the vaccine was first given to the elderly and 32 million people have now had their first shot.

They've vaccinated an average of 350,000 people a day. Using the 600 figure over the same timescale that's fewer than 7 deaths a day.
Compare and contrast with the peak Covid daily death rate of over 1200.

You pick 350,000 people on a given day, especially elderly people, then I'd suggest the idea that 7 of them would die over the next 'n' days is not implausible.
If you got 350,000 people who had the vaccine to flip a coin 15 times then you'd expect about 10 of them to get 15 heads. That doesn't mean the vaccine makes you lucky, it's just in a population that size of course some people will get an unusual outcome.

Which isn't to say that side effects shouldn't be reported and investigated of course. MrsL felt rough for a day and a half and I know others have had similar experiences with the AZ vaccine. It was nothing serious but maybe for someone who isn't in good health it could be.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well i couldn't find an emoji of someone swigging from a whisky bottle while posting angry paranoid rants on GW into the early hours...

But at least you put the time into finding something. Sure beats having the balls to provide something of substance.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well, I don't want any deaths at all.

Famously, correlation does not imply causation. So sure, just because someone has had a positive Covid test and then died, that doesn't mean they died of Covid.
And just because someone had the vaccine and then died, that doesn't mean they died from side effects caused by the vaccine.
The big difference though is in the numbers of people involved.

What I've mostly been looking at is all cause mortality. That should cut across the debate about whether Covid deaths are being inflated - it answers the question about whether more people are dying than you'd expect in a usual year.

The average in the UK for the last 5 years (before 2020) is around 534,000 deaths.
Last year it was 608,000 - 74,000 or 13.8% above the average. I'm actually surprised it's not more, but then I realised the peak of Covid deaths in the second wave was actually in mid January so of course isn't included. Actually, the cumulative total of Covid deaths up until the end of 2020 was 77,000 - quite close to that 74,000 excess deaths. An explanation for that could be that deaths from other things have stayed much the same as other years and the excess deaths are indeed mostly Covid related. It could be that Covid deaths have been hugely overstated and deaths from other things have all increased, but I'd suggest that the 74,000 and 77,000 are close enough to make the former explanation more likely. Unless you think that all the data has been fudged of course. If that's true then all bets are off. I obviously have no ability to collect my own stats about Covid or mortality so I can only base opinions on the data I see published.

It's also worth noting that the 13.8% above average figure comes against a general falling trend in death rates over the last 30 years, I guess as medicine has got better. Here's a graph of the age-standardised mortality rate since 1990. Very clear downward trend until last year:



Source:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/trans...from1990to2020
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

So that all tells me that there's clearly been something going on, something which has killed a lot of people. Mostly old people, sure, but something happened last year which was out of the ordinary and bucked the trend of the last 30 years. The fact that the number of Covid deaths is pretty close to the number of excess deaths tells me that the something is pretty likely to be Covid.

The "deaths within 28 days of a Covid test" total currently stands at about 127,000. And sure, I guess some of those people died from things which were clearly nothing to do with Covid, but how many people actually get hit by a bus each year or just drop down dead? in the context of 127,000 it must be a vanishingly small number. Your original claim was that:



The source I found said 460 but maybe that's out of date and it is 600. So 600 people had the vaccine, died within an unknown timeframe and someone called up to report that. So we have two statistics
127,000 people died within 28 days of a positive Covid test.
600 people died within 'n' days of receiving the vaccine.

I'd suggest that in the context of an average of 1460 people dying every day (calculated from the 5 year average I gave above, not including last year) the first of those numbers cannot be explained by coincidental deaths, the second easily could.
Especially given that the vaccine was first given to the elderly and 32 million people have now had their first shot.

They've vaccinated an average of 350,000 people a day. Using the 600 figure over the same timescale that's fewer than 7 deaths a day.
Compare and contrast with the peak Covid daily death rate of over 1200.

You pick 350,000 people on a given day, especially elderly people, then I'd suggest the idea that 7 of them would die over the next 'n' days is not implausible.
If you got 350,000 people who had the vaccine to flip a coin 15 times then you'd expect about 10 of them to get 15 heads. That doesn't mean the vaccine makes you lucky, it's just in a population that size of course some people will get an unusual outcome.

Which isn't to say that side effects shouldn't be reported and investigated of course. MrsL felt rough for a day and a half and I know others have had similar experiences with the AZ vaccine. It was nothing serious but maybe for someone who isn't in good health it could be.

What a bunch of fluff. For any of your "data" to be even in the vicinity of credible you have to ignore every last fundamental upon which such "data" is based. The fake tests, the medical malpractice, the modified protocols, everything that was detailed previously and you have very carefully ignored. As always.