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Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

  1. #6201
    Administrator Letters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    No, you didn't ask a simple question.
    I did. You've said you don't believe in government. So without that structure who builds the roads and maintains them and other infrastructure?
    I remember you saying you had answers to all that, I don't remember you ever elaborating. If you want to call me a liar about that then fine, I guess.
    We can go round the "am not!", "are too!" loop if you like but it's a waste of both of our times.

    If the answer is that I've misrepresented your position then fine, you could say that and clarify what your actual position is. I'm trying to understand more about your position. The trouble is you tend to be vague about it, and you insist on thinking I have some ulterior motive or malicious intent. I don't know how to help you with that. But you do seem to think that of a lot of people who disagree with you about stuff, and anyone in a position of power. (I don't regard my IIP as the latter, for the record)

    But, if memory serves, the last time we spoke about it wasn't that long ago. You advised I should get with your agenda or get the fuck out.
    That was a different conversation and of course I remember the post. But what's the other alternative?
    You live in a country. That country has a society. And as you noted, if you moved to a different country you'd be living in a different society. Because pretty much every country has one because generally when a complex infrastructure is required some structure is required to create it. As I've said, if you have an alternative then let's hear it.
    And you're right, participation isn't optional. But I don't know how, in practice, you can disentangle yourself from a complex and integrated society.

    Then your other lie which you have been carefully constructing over time. Everyone is out to get me.
    It's simply the way you consistently come across. You have displayed it throughout this post, even in this snippet accusing me of "carefully constructing" a lie.
    What's that if not a paranoid assertion? Your evidence that I'm a liar is entirely you thinking I'm a liar. I don't know what I'm supposed to do with that.

    I'll tell you why it's so important for you to shoot down all notion of personal liberty. Because, if it was an option, millions would want it. And then you might be forced to stand on your own two feet and make your own decisions and take personal responsibility. And that terrifies you, right? You need to be protected and cared for like a child, although the parents are somewhat abusive.
    I think the notion of society is important and has provided all the comforts we enjoy. I don't think it's "important" to shoot you down - I have actively suggested ways you could take steps towards the liberty I think you want. But I think in practice completely disconnecting from society is basically impossible in most countries. I don't have the ability to fend for myself and nor do you. Yes, I need all the infrastructure to lead my life and I can't think of a better way of creating and maintaining it than the one we have - or something similar, I'm not saying there is no room for improvement but pretty much every country has solved this need the same way.
    I don't think millions would want it - although I'm still not clear what the "it" is. OK, you want to be left alone. But what does that mean in practice?
    You did elaborate a bit below so let's have a look at that.

    I will pay you by choice if I want anything from you, as should always be the way with a legal contract.
    OK, so now we're getting somewhere. So you favour an opt in system? You want to send your child to school then you pay, right? Or not if you don't want to.
    And if you do pay then that pays for the teachers and the buildings and so on.
    You want medical treatment then you pay. And that pays for the hospitals and doctors?
    Is that how this would work?
    But that doesn't work, does it? Because non parents wouldn't want to pay for schools, not every parent can pay for their child's schooling and most people don't have the skills to home school.
    Not everyone can afford to pay for medical care, especially if you lost the lottery of life and happen to have a serious condition which requires a lot of treatment.
    So my "problem with that" is it doesn't work. Unless you're suggesting that most people stay in the society and you uniquely opt in to the bits you want.
    Why do you get that option? That doesn't seem very fair.
    But if that was an option for everyone and "millions of people" did choose to do it then I reckon the whole thing would fall apart. And maybe you think that's a good thing.
    But personally I'd rather that I call 999 and someone picks up. I'd rather that trained professionals teach my child rather than me trying to.
    The infrastructure which you don't want provides all your comforts, and mine. I don't see how that happens unless people all pay in to "a pot" and there is some form of government which spends that money on the infrastructure.
    And sure, they spend money in stupid ways - that stupid NHS IT system which cost billions and never worked, Boris's vanity projects (although for the record I think his "garden bridge" idea was pretty cool). So it's not perfect by any means, but I've yet to hear a workable alternative.

  2. #6202
    Pureblood The Wengerbabies's Avatar
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    So if I come back now I have to still take a pre-departure test and PCR tests on day 2 and 8. The vaxxed do not need pre-departure tests anymore and only need a cheaper LFT test on day 2.

    So I'll be on a plane full of negative tested unvaxxed but untested vaxxed, if the day 2 test comes back positive from whom did I catch it? That's ignoring the fact that a test 72hrs prior to a flight is pretty much pointless as you could catch it in the meantime anyway but the farce becomes even more farcical.

    In other news; still living it up, sharing many bodily fluids with strangers, still not been sick.

  3. #6203
    Administrator Letters's Avatar
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    I thought you’d come back already?

  4. #6204
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    I did briefly, then I left again.

  5. #6205
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    Ah.

    You keep saying you’re banging strangers without getting ill as if that’s significant.
    From your young, free and single gallivanting I infer you’re young and healthy.
    So you’re not exactly at risk from Covid.

    I’m basically agree that the rules around flights are pretty nonsensical btw

  6. #6206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letters View Post
    I did. You've said you don't believe in government. So without that structure who builds the roads and maintains them and other infrastructure?
    I remember you saying you had answers to all that, I don't remember you ever elaborating. If you want to call me a liar about that then fine, I guess.
    We can go round the "am not!", "are too!" loop if you like but it's a waste of both of our times.

    If the answer is that I've misrepresented your position then fine, you could say that and clarify what your actual position is. I'm trying to understand more about your position. The trouble is you tend to be vague about it, and you insist on thinking I have some ulterior motive or malicious intent. I don't know how to help you with that. But you do seem to think that of a lot of people who disagree with you about stuff, and anyone in a position of power. (I don't regard my IIP as the latter, for the record)


    That was a different conversation and of course I remember the post. But what's the other alternative?
    You live in a country. That country has a society. And as you noted, if you moved to a different country you'd be living in a different society. Because pretty much every country has one because generally when a complex infrastructure is required some structure is required to create it. As I've said, if you have an alternative then let's hear it.
    And you're right, participation isn't optional. But I don't know how, in practice, you can disentangle yourself from a complex and integrated society.


    It's simply the way you consistently come across. You have displayed it throughout this post, even in this snippet accusing me of "carefully constructing" a lie.
    What's that if not a paranoid assertion? Your evidence that I'm a liar is entirely you thinking I'm a liar. I don't know what I'm supposed to do with that.


    I think the notion of society is important and has provided all the comforts we enjoy. I don't think it's "important" to shoot you down - I have actively suggested ways you could take steps towards the liberty I think you want. But I think in practice completely disconnecting from society is basically impossible in most countries. I don't have the ability to fend for myself and nor do you. Yes, I need all the infrastructure to lead my life and I can't think of a better way of creating and maintaining it than the one we have - or something similar, I'm not saying there is no room for improvement but pretty much every country has solved this need the same way.
    I don't think millions would want it - although I'm still not clear what the "it" is. OK, you want to be left alone. But what does that mean in practice?
    You did elaborate a bit below so let's have a look at that.


    OK, so now we're getting somewhere. So you favour an opt in system? You want to send your child to school then you pay, right? Or not if you don't want to.
    And if you do pay then that pays for the teachers and the buildings and so on.
    You want medical treatment then you pay. And that pays for the hospitals and doctors?
    Is that how this would work?
    But that doesn't work, does it? Because non parents wouldn't want to pay for schools, not every parent can pay for their child's schooling and most people don't have the skills to home school.
    Not everyone can afford to pay for medical care, especially if you lost the lottery of life and happen to have a serious condition which requires a lot of treatment.
    So my "problem with that" is it doesn't work. Unless you're suggesting that most people stay in the society and you uniquely opt in to the bits you want.
    Why do you get that option? That doesn't seem very fair.
    But if that was an option for everyone and "millions of people" did choose to do it then I reckon the whole thing would fall apart. And maybe you think that's a good thing.
    But personally I'd rather that I call 999 and someone picks up. I'd rather that trained professionals teach my child rather than me trying to.
    The infrastructure which you don't want provides all your comforts, and mine. I don't see how that happens unless people all pay in to "a pot" and there is some form of government which spends that money on the infrastructure.
    And sure, they spend money in stupid ways - that stupid NHS IT system which cost billions and never worked, Boris's vanity projects (although for the record I think his "garden bridge" idea was pretty cool). So it's not perfect by any means, but I've yet to hear a workable alternative.
    Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you are not being deliberately deceitful but are instead simply incapable of comprehending concepts that stray outside a rigid and strictly narrow scope. It seems from what you have said above, minus the stuffing that tries to explain away your MO, the actual concepts of liberty and cause/ effect are not within your capability to grasp. I'll try one more time to address each of your "interpretations" and (if it's possible) explain in the simplest terms I can manage how liberty can exist as an alternative to coercion and thuggery, which you openly admit is preferable for you given the practical advantages you derive. I make no promises as you are asking me to conceptualise basic human concepts on your behalf which are normally understood without having to be verbalised. I'm not confident I have the language to simplify complex ideas to such extreme levels but I will try. I'll probably have to do it paragraph by paragraph over time. This will definitely be the last time but I'll give it a good effort.
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  7. #6207
    Pureblood The Wengerbabies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letters View Post
    Ah.

    You keep saying you’re banging strangers without getting ill as if that’s significant.
    From your young, free and single gallivanting I infer you’re young and healthy.
    So you’re not exactly at risk from Covid.

    I’m basically agree that the rules around flights are pretty nonsensical btw
    Only banged a couple recently but I'm drinking from the same bottles/glasses eating from the same forks/spoons taking bites from the same sandwiches etc. with many different people almost every night. At this point I'm trying my damn best to get sick, honestly I was more careful before this whole shamdemic.

  8. #6208
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wengerbabies View Post
    Only banged a couple recently but I'm drinking from the same bottles/glasses eating from the same forks/spoons taking bites from the same sandwiches etc. with many different people almost every night. At this point I'm trying my damn best to get sick, honestly I was more careful before this whole shamdemic.
    a mate of mine's been laid low with it recently even after two jabs

    tell him it's a sham

  9. #6209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac76 View Post
    a mate of mine's been laid low with it recently even after two jabs

    tell him it's a sham

    Case in point.

    The disease was never really that serious (for the majority) and now the vaccine isn't working to well. A total farce from start to finish, though it's never going to finish boosters every 6 months for life.

  10. #6210
    ***** Niall_Quinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wengerbabies View Post
    Case in point.

    The disease was never really that serious (for the majority) and now the vaccine isn't working to well. A total farce from start to finish, though it's never going to finish boosters every 6 months for life.
    They don't get their own "logic", and there's no point trying to communicate with them using actual logic and certainly not historical behavioural precedent or any other tool that produces contradictory evidence that deviates (even by a single degree) from the most recent statements issued by establishment agencies they consider to be sanctified and incapable of deceiving them. They are entirely brainwashed. This is why, two years after they were advised it would take two weeks, they are still trying to flatten out that curve to save the NHS, presumably so it can throw more non-Covid victims onto the street having relieved them of their wallets first.

    The population has split into two distinct groups, it was probably always split but the distinction was never as evident. On the one hand you have the group still capable of independent thought, but many opinions exist within this group. Unfortunately, that means the focus is splintered. On the other side you have a cult-like hoard that operates with one mindset (provided by the state), unified on all matters of importance. This gives them the advantage. Whether communication between the groups is still possible is doubtful.

    The seeds for a repeat of the historical horrors we read about and think can't apply to us are mostly sown. We're not far away from being herded into another war or another mass atrocity by these vassals of the state.
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