Coronavirus Pandemic

[Niall_Quinn]

The ridiculous irony of dragging out an orchestrated debate on human rights so they can truncate a debate on the removal of human rights.

[Letters]

Give it a rest Letters. The only thing you have said about those videos, one of which is Dore saying "I don't understand, explain it to me.", the other where he sits quietly while another person speaks, is that Dore has no credibility and I blindly accept everything he says.

Alright. Fine. I watched the videos. So the one where he listens to Neil Oliver. I basically agree with him about Austria.
I've been clear that I'm against mandatory vaccination, offering jabs for time with a sex worker is crass at best.
The comparison between the unvaccinated and Jews seems hysterical to me. Especially given than people are choosing whether to get vaccinated. But I vaguely agree there's a danger of a two tier society developing, although I don't think that has happened here yet.
I note that Dore - when commenting on the church which only allows people with the "Passports" in - calls them Covid Vaccine Passports.
That is not true. As I've noted, you don't have to be vaccinated, a negative test will do. So is Dore lying here or is he misinformed?
Dore also says that "They love it, they relish in [taking away your freedoms]". Which is obvious bullshit. As I keep saying, the restrictions in this country have come and gone as the situation has. Even now Boris is clearly trying not to restrict things too much. And the "they" in Dore's statement is the Left, Boris may be many things but left wing isn't one of them.

The other video is his faux confusion about the death rate. He riffs on the 3.4% rate given in one article.
That article is from March 2020, before mass testing. Far too early for a number to be reliably known. And I found this article which cites that figure:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/who-...y-thought.html

Literally the sentence after it gives the 3.4% figure it says:

The World Health Organization had said last week that the mortality rate of COVID-19 can differ, ranging from 0.7% to up to 4%, depending on the quality of the health-care system where it’s treated.

So it gives a range of numbers - you could argue that the headline shouldn't scream the highest one, you could argue that Dore shouldn't either. Is he deliberately misrepresenting that figure? He leans on it a few times in the video.
Then there's the old "you can be hit by a bus, test positive for Covid and be counted as a Covid death" thing. The UK actually changed their recording in response to some criticism around this. But I'd suggest that the all cause mortality rate is the thing which tells the real story.
I've covered that before, but there was a clear spike in all cause mortality in 2020 in the US and UK, that tells you that something unusual was going on.
And if you don't believe the official figures then I've related my conversation with the ICU doctor who has been at the sharp end of this.

Dore says "they want to make the death rate higher to keep us scared so they can do what they want."
"Them" again. Are "they" also faking low numbers so they can remove restrictions?

You even doubled down by stating there's a longer shit-raking video out there you'll be watching. Incredible.

Yeah, I'll have a look. If it gives more examples of Dore's lies and misinformation then it's informative.
What's wrong with shooting the messenger? You do that with the MSM all the time. If you think that <insert source here> has been shown to be unreliable, biased or lying then isn't that relevant when assessing their message? When Boris says something do you listen to the message and judge what he says objectively or do you think "Oh hang on, it's Boris..."?

Just because some bloke on YouTube is independent and not mainstream that doesn't make them right.
They're subject to biases like we all are, they're influenced by their worldview, they might be doing it for the clicks and spouting stuff they know plays well but which they don't necessarily believe.

[Niall_Quinn]

Watching a particularly horrific little tory runt lecturing to the house about "The Science". How would you feel, he asks, if your loved one (I think he means your family members rather than some kid you just groomed off the Internet, but don't quote me) was treated by an unvaccinated person? Depends, wouldn't it? If your loved one is vaccinated then what's the worry? Even if they catch covid (which they can also catch from the vaccinated) the vaccine and the booster will keep them safe, right? So, what does it matter if they are treated by an unvaccinated person? Can any of them answer that simple question? And if we can't get simple answers to simple questions, then why are they implementing far reaching, destructive and ruinously expensive policies?

[Niall_Quinn]

Alright. Fine. I watched the videos. So the one where he listens to Neil Oliver. I basically agree with him about Austria.
I've been clear that I'm against mandatory vaccination, offering jabs for time with a sex worker is crass at best... They're subject to biases like we all are, they're influenced by their worldview, they might be doing it for the clicks and spouting stuff they know plays well but which they don't necessarily believe.

So why the initial snow job? I'd be interested to know why you consistently do that, what your purpose is in doing it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Horrendous statistic just mentioned, by a Labour guy, which I haven't verified but is astonishing if true. Three quarters of a million cancer tests missed since this BS began? No wonder they haven't done a risk/ benefit assessment. They'd be locked up.

[Letters]

So why the initial snow job? I'd be interested to know why you consistently do that, what your purpose is in doing it.

I guess I'm just tired of this growing attitude that everything the MSM says is a lie. And it's compounded by the fact that now basically anyone can start a Website or a YouTube channel and with a fair wind get a massive following. So...you think the MSM are liars. OK. But the real truth...that's to be found from some bloke on YouTube? Really? Does he have expertise in the relevant subject matter? You understand that he has his own biases, his own worldview which colours his content? You understand that he gets more money the more clicks or views he gets, so he's incentivised to produce content which he knows plays well with his audience? And that's the horse you're backing? I mean, come on. Just because he's not part of the MSM, that doesn't make him truly independent, unbiased and truthful. And of course the MSM aren't to be entirely trusted, but that doesn't mean everything they write is a lie. If anything they're under far more scrutiny and there are more consequences for them if they're found to be blatantly lying than there are for "some bloke".

Dore is not new to me. I have a dim view of him. And yeah, that YouTube video I posted is a good example of why. Let's go through one thing highlighted in that video. This is the Dore video being dissected:



And this is the Fortune article Dore is referencing in it.

https://fortune.com/2021/09/28/singa...ases-vaccines/

This is the start of that article. I've put in bold the parts Dore reads out. Note the parts which he carefully omits which I'd suggest are relevant:

Highly-vaccinated Singapore is battling a record wave of COVID-19 infections just as the city plans to re-open to the world. But Singapore's 80% vaccination rate has kept severe cases and deaths down, potentially proving that living with the virus—versus trying to eradicate it—is the surest path out of the pandemic.
On Monday, Singapore recorded 1,647 cases of COVID-19, bringing its seven-day daily average to 1,545 cases, higher than any other previous wave of the pandemic. But even as cases soar, COVID-19 deaths in Singapore have remained low. The city-state of 5.7 million people has averaged three deaths per day in the last week. Singapore’s saving grace is its high vaccination coverage.
Singapore has now fully vaccinated over 80% of its population, one of the highest rates in the world. China's fully vaccinated rate is 73%, while the European Union and U.S. have fully vaccinated 65% and 55% of their populations, respectively, according to Bloomberg.
Experts say that Singapore's climbing cases, more than half of which are in vaccinated individuals, may signal that COVID-19 is becoming an endemic disease in the city-state, meaning COVID-19 circulates in a population like its four coronavirus cousins but doesn't upend lives due to widespread immunity. As long as deaths remain low, Singapore can set an example for how other countries, especially those that have maintained zero tolerance for COVID-19, can emerge from the pandemic.

Do you see the problem? You accuse the MSM of twisting things, or misleading. Isn't Dore doing the same here?
And then there's this bit. This is what Dore reads out:

But Singapore's growing caseload has raised alarms nonetheless because of the speed at which cases have climbed despite stay-at-home orders, intensive testing and contact tracing, and a ban on foreign visitors

I've bolded the word "despite". So the cases have risen alarmingly despite these measures...except that is not what the article says. This is the actual text. The part in bold is what Dore replaces with the word "despite":

But Singapore's growing caseload has raised alarms nonetheless because of the speed at which cases have climbed. Throughout July and August, cases in Singapore ticked up to over 100 per day after nearly a year of almost no infections due to the city’s previous zero-tolerance policy. That policy included stay-at-home orders, intensive testing and contact tracing, and a ban on foreign visitors

Now come on, that's just downright dishonest. The paragraph is talking about previous restrictions which have now been lifted and since doing that the cases have risen. Dore replaces that part with the word "despite" to make it look like cases have risen despite those measures. That is not what that paragraph says, it says pretty much the exact opposite.

Further down the article there's another paragraph which Dore ignores:

But the city's high vaccination rate is keeping people from suffering the worst effects of the virus. Authorities said on Sunday that 98% of people infected in the last 28 days have recorded mild or no symptoms of COVID-19. Singapore is discovering asymptomatic cases by testing close contacts of infected individuals. Kenneth Mak, Singapore’s director of medical services, told Singapore’s Straits Times last week that the vaccinated in Singapore have been 12 times less likely to die or require hospitalization than the unvaccinated.

The article is basically a success story. It talks about how Singapore locked down hard to try and keep Covid out completely, vaccinated the majority of their population and then cautiously reopened. And yes, they have had a big rises in cases since, as you'd expect, but the high vaccination rate is mitigating the more serious effects of that. The article is about them being a potential example of how to live with the virus. Dore spins it to say something completely different. That's why I have a dim view of Dore and I find it frustrating that you and others see him as one of the "good guys". He's every bit as dishonest as the mainstream sources you deride.

[Niall_Quinn]

You're tired of people finally seeing through the MSM? You're concerned because more people have spotted the neon flashing link between power and the press? And you, at least in part, blame left wing YouTube commentators for this sorry inevitability? So you feel it necessary to lazily throw up third party ridicule whenever somebody shares a couple of links? Are you sure this is just about the MSM and not something deeper?

I'm glad you managed to respond properly in the end though. In defence of corporations that probably killed a couple of million people in the MidEast over the last few decades with their lies, don't think Dore killed anyone so far, but you can't have everything. Maybe the best to hope for is you'll stop and think the next time you decide to be lazy and unthinkingly dismissive.

[Niall_Quinn]

So the covid passports that will never happen are here.

Next stop the never to happen mandatory vaccines.

[Niall_Quinn]

Have a read of Professor Stephan Lewandowsky (said expert) and compare to what Paul Barrett from Newcastle (possible real person) has to say. The professor has suggested people like Paul need to be helped with their extreme views.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1971695.html

[Xhaka Can’t]

So the covid passports that will never happen are here.

Next stop the never to happen mandatory vaccines.

Oh we’re heading towards mandatory vaccination.