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View Poll Results: Who do you want to win?

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  • Trump

    4 15.38%
  • Biden

    22 84.62%
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Thread: 2020 US General Election

  1. #1231
    Member Mac76's Avatar
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    It's the beginning of the end

    Trump

    NQ

  2. #1232
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    Game over man, game over!
    NOTE: The location of this post has been moved and the thread title (which was previously Wenger is Leaving) has been manipulated by a notorious pro-Wenger moderator. What was previously a message that contained no profanity and made a comment on a real life event has now been manipulated by a deliberately provocative title. An old and crude propaganda and censorship technique.


  3. #1233
    Administrator Letters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    You might also consider that an "impartial" judge has already summarily ruled that Trump's campaign was not disadvantaged due to election watchers being excluded from the count because ALL watchers were excluded.
    Are you talking about the case where the judge asked Trump's people if there were Republican observers and they had to admit there were a "non zero" number of people in there? Last count Trump was 1 for 35 in court. Such bad luck that they just keep on getting biased judges, isn't it?
    Especially when the evidence for widespread fraud is so strong. Except...it isn't, is it?

    Dead people voted - except...they didn't. When spot checks were done of the "dead people" who voted they were found to be very much alive.

    The Dominion Machines switched votes - except...is there any evidence of that? Or that they multiplied Biden's votes? When people use these machines it prints out a copy of their vote so they can do audits later. When they've done such audits the numbers match, so...

    More people voted than were registered - except...they didn't. People claiming that are generally looking at out-dated electoral rolls or not accounting for the fact that people can move out of state and still vote in their old state within a certain period.

    But there's all these whistle-blowers - ...except, there isn't, is there? I mean, there are a load of people who say they saw a thing or heard a thing but it's all mostly vague hearsay, or it's people just not understanding how the election process works. I don't believe the USPS dude is either mental or trying to stir up trouble. I think he's well meaning and, because of a President desperately trying to pretend he didn't really lose an election he clearly did, he spoke up about something he heard which concerned him. But when asked about it he admitted he heard half of an out of context conversation and couldn't stand by the way Project Veritas wrote it up. He literally said "my mind might have made up the rest". This is the great whistle blower who is going to crack this whole thing open, is it?! . I also heard (although haven't been able to verify this) that the number of votes which came from his post office after the election day - so the maximum number which could have been backdated, which there is no evidence for, is 2.

    I mean yes, they could recount every sodding vote, all 150 million of them. But that would be a huge expense and there would have to be good evidence of widespread fraud to justify it and none has been presented. Watchers were present from all sides, Trump's team have admitted that in court when they're under oath

    Of course Trump has a right to pursue legal action, but when they get in front of a judge you need to have some evidence. They're just not presenting any. What is being swept under the carpet? Where is this evidence of widespread fraud? None has been shown which stands up to the slightest bit of scrutiny.
    Just saying "I WON THE ELECTION" on Twitter isn't admissible in court, strangely. And refusing the concede in an election where the result is so clear is unprecedented. It's actively been obstructing a smooth transition of power, so of course there has been some frustration about that. Trump is at least allowing that to happen now.

    While we're here. You know the Republicans actually did pretty well in the election, right? Trump didn't, but the party did. And those votes were on the same ballots. So what's the suggestion, here? That the Dems orchestrated widespread fraud to prevent Trump winning but on the same ballots completely forgot to rig the Senate election? You yourself has noted that Biden won't be able to achieve much without a majority in the Senate. Why on earth would they rig one election and then completely hobble themselves by not rigging the other bit?

    You keep claiming there's clear and widespread evidence.
    But you also keep failing to present any when asked, as do Trump's legal team.

  4. #1234
    ***** Niall_Quinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist View Post
    Exactly the action a man who was confident of winning in the election in court would take......
    I think you have been reading too much mainstream media. Trump's intention has never been to undermine the nation, it has only ever been the desire to expose the stolen election. And that has nothing to do with winning the election in court, he won that on the night. He needs to get it counted and audited fairly though, which was a requirement in the first place but wasn't honoured in several key Democratic counting venues. Even now, state courts are summarily throwing out his cases as legislatures do everything bar the audit that would rather easily reveal the fraud. It's clear to see what's happening, provided the mainstream media is not your only source of information.

    That said, if Trump can't get a fair hearing in a court and the legislatures are determined to press ahead with the steal, he has no other options available to him and will have to step down. You've probably heard further nonsense in the media about him refusing to leave. Just more anti-Trump propaganda to heap on four years of the stuff. Of course he will leave, so he has to make contingencies for that outcome too. He's a patriot, not a sellout to a foreign power like those who are attempting this coup. He won't want to see the nation descend into chaos, like the left with their rioters, looters and lockdown governors.

    He also needs to be able to run again in 2024 and he'll probably still be the best option as I doubt the right would deliberately put forward anyone more useful. But this is not over yet. If he gets those audits he wins. Only a fool can't see through the events of election night and that's why every single Dem state is avoiding the simple step that would have cleared up the whole issue and freed the election process of doubt. But they won't do that because they can't do that because they did steal the election. You'll also be aware that if the roles were reversed the mainstream media would be screaming 24/7 for proper counts and, as Clinton advised, there would be no circumstances under which they would concede. But we play the media game nonetheless.
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  5. #1235
    ***** Niall_Quinn's Avatar
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    Some people are too low information to know what a summary dismissal is. They are so low information they demand evidence be presented at such a summary dismissal. Painful indeed.
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  6. #1236
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    If only high information could provide the rock solid evidence that they definitely have of widespread election fraud .

  7. #1237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    I think you have been reading too much mainstream media. Trump's intention has never been to undermine the nation, it has only ever been the desire to expose the stolen election. And that has nothing to do with winning the election in court, he won that on the night. He needs to get it counted and audited fairly though, which was a requirement in the first place but wasn't honoured in several key Democratic counting venues. Even now, state courts are summarily throwing out his cases as legislatures do everything bar the audit that would rather easily reveal the fraud. It's clear to see what's happening, provided the mainstream media is not your only source of information.

    That said, if Trump can't get a fair hearing in a court and the legislatures are determined to press ahead with the steal, he has no other options available to him and will have to step down. You've probably heard further nonsense in the media about him refusing to leave. Just more anti-Trump propaganda to heap on four years of the stuff. Of course he will leave, so he has to make contingencies for that outcome too. He's a patriot, not a sellout to a foreign power like those who are attempting this coup. He won't want to see the nation descend into chaos, like the left with their rioters, looters and lockdown governors.

    He also needs to be able to run again in 2024 and he'll probably still be the best option as I doubt the right would deliberately put forward anyone more useful. But this is not over yet. If he gets those audits he wins. Only a fool can't see through the events of election night and that's why every single Dem state is avoiding the simple step that would have cleared up the whole issue and freed the election process of doubt. But they won't do that because they can't do that because they did steal the election. You'll also be aware that if the roles were reversed the mainstream media would be screaming 24/7 for proper counts and, as Clinton advised, there would be no circumstances under which they would concede. But we play the media game nonetheless.
    Yes repeatedly alleging election fraud without any proof clearly shows that is his intention.

    Added to the fact he refused to authorise the transition to Biden and repeatedly played golf instead of dealing with a global pandemic. There was a G20 call at the weeeknd to discuss Covid responses which he left to go & play golf.

    Again, exactly the intention of a man who doesnt want to undermine the nation.

    Jesus you talk some utter bollocks

  8. #1238
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    What the media doesn't want you to focus on is the electoral process itself. So they have instead focused on hair dye and imaginary "office[s] of the president-elect". The media doesn't want people to know about the differences between a recount, a re-canvas and an audit. They want their consumers to believe a recount is a form of validation in a disputed election, despite the fact a fool could determine otherwise if they focused for a moment. All states have a requirement for a ballot to be correctly completed, endorsed and counted under supervision and by methods set down by legislation that is agreed upon by all parties in advance. No deviation is permitted from the process either before, during or after the election process. Verification to ensure a legal and fair outcome is the right of any participant in closely contested outcomes and takes place in the form on an audit.

    Such audits are the most effective way to remove all doubt about the result. This is what the Trump campaign has requested. This is what is being denied by any and all means. That, in itself, tells you much about the reality and explains why the media wants to misdirect you with claims of missing evidence. Of course, when you are not permitted to gather the evidence it becomes difficult to present it.

    Nevertheless, there are other types of supporting evidence that can be presented for varying degrees of remedy, such as supreme court challenges to the partial rulings of state courts and legislatures prior to and during the election, dropping or weakening identity requirements, selectively allowing ballot curing, infringing on mandated observation procedures, etc. Mathematical, statistical and historical calculations can also be used to demonstrate the absurd and unprecedented extremes that emerged during this election.

    Taken together there's a compelling case to support what was obvious in the first place, but an actual counting of the legitimate ballots will be required. This is why the whole effort on both sides has been to either obtain that count or deter it at all costs. And that, in itself, tells who who the honest party is in this dispute.
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  9. #1239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist View Post
    Yes repeatedly alleging election fraud without any proof clearly shows that is his intention.

    Added to the fact he refused to authorise the transition to Biden and repeatedly played golf instead of dealing with a global pandemic. There was a G20 call at the weeeknd to discuss Covid responses which he left to go & play golf.

    Again, exactly the intention of a man who doesnt want to undermine the nation.

    Jesus you talk some utter bollocks
    You're just repeating mainstream media talking points again. There's no requirement to begin a transition process in the absence of a president-elect, you knew that, right? The election isn't finished yet, it ends on the 14th when a president-elect will be confirmed or the incumbent will be reconfirmed. And Trump did speak to the G20 leaders, so why pretend otherwise? Trump has made no secret of his intention to put his own nation first, it's his slogan in fact. The opposite of undermining it. The leftist view that outsourcing American jobs to China is profitable for a minority, and that such action is beneficial for the "nation" is not shared by 70+ million Americans. And it's not too difficult to observe both arguments and figure out which undermines the nation.

    Millions are not fooled. 10 million more than last time and millions more around the globe.
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  10. #1240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    Trump's intention has never been to undermine the nation, it has only ever been the desire to expose the stolen election.
    Bullshit. He's a narcissist who cannot admit he ever lost at anything.
    So when he did he has to reframe that in his mind - of course he didn't lose, it was stolen from him.
    Unfortunately, despite presenting no evidence, a lot of people are buying into it.
    It's pretty dangerous because it'll leave a lot of people not only feeling pissed off about the results, but that they've been robbed. When they haven't. All to stroke Trump's fragile ego.

    And that has nothing to do with winning the election in court, he won that on the night.
    This part is actually true. He did. But not all the votes are counted on the night. Postal votes are counted afterwards. Trump spent months prior to the election trying to discredit mail-in voting and telling his supporters to vote on the day. The Republicans were actively encouraging their people to vote by mail. No surprise then that the on the night voting was skewed towards Trump and didn't show the true picture which only emerged days later when the postal votes were counted. Actually, in some states the postal votes are processed first and in those states the exact reverse happened. Biden shot into the lead when the postal vote was added first and then when the on the day votes were counted Trump overtook him. I note that Trump isn't complaining about those states.

    It's clear to see what's happening, provided the mainstream media is not your only source of information.
    And yet you repeatedly fail to present your sources of information which would make that clear.
    The titbits you have provided have been easily debunked conspiracy theories.
    And your credibility is further undermined by your take on the USPS dude. You know, the one who you said
    "[claimed] election fraud occurred at the USPS where he worked".
    Except no, no he didn't claim that. What actually happened was he heard something - half an out of context conversation. That's all. He probably wouldn't have thought much of it had it not been for Trump whipping up people to believe that large scale fraud had occurred. So the dude reported it to Project Veritas (who are ironically named, by the way). They then wrote an affidavit alleging voter fraud which he signed. But then when it was read back to him he realised it massively over-stated what had actually happened and agreed he couldn't stand by it in court because he only overheard a snippet of conversation and his "mind might have made up the rest".
    Dude, you're going to have to do a lot better than that.

    You've probably heard further nonsense in the media about him refusing to leave.
    I've heard some speculative "what if" stories around that. I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that's likely, but what Trump is doing is unprecedented in the context of an election with such a clear result so some speculation about "what if he does that" isn't that unreasonable.
    It's quite a diverting thought experiment, nothing more.

    Only a fool can't see through the events of election night and that's why every single Dem state is avoiding the simple step that would have cleared up the whole issue and freed the election process of doubt.
    And what should us poor low information saps be seeing and where's your evidence?
    *crickets*
    Georgia did a full by hand recount already and got the same answer. Of course, you claim that's only because they recounted the fraudulent ballots. And, of course, you provide zero evidence for that assertion. Trump has now requested another recount so let's see how that goes although I think we know.

    But they won't do that because they can't do that because they did steal the election.
    Evidence?
    The burden of proof is on the claimant, remember?
    And why did they only steal the Trump part? Did they just forget to steal the Senate part which undermines how effective Biden can be? I note you ignored that...

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