2020 US General Election

[Niall_Quinn]

If the people I believed in so much were constantly wrong about everything, I'd start asking myself some very serious questions.

Your type doesn't believe in law, you believe in political power. That's why you are on the left.

[Niall_Quinn]

What happens when you remove the points scoring nonsense of low information, tiny minds and instead discuss shit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WMAHe6R8Kw

The last lefty who can state a case and then (no offence intended) listen to an opposing view without pouring ridicule, recrimination or censorship?

It's possible, but I think you have to have a healthy understanding of the mainstream media to manage it. When you are talking to somebody who isn't thus immunised it has become impossible.

[Letters]

you have to have a healthy understanding of the mainstream media to manage it.

Believing that the mainstream media are out to get us and constantly trying to mislead us and that everything they say is false isn't a "healthy understanding".
You also believe that if someone doesn't see things the way you do then the only possible alternative is that they believe everything the MSM says and that they believe the MSM to be completely neutral and honest.
Those aren't the only two options.
In the same way that your paranoia that the state is out to get you and control every aspect of your life leads you to straw man anyone who doesn't believe that by claiming that they believe that "The state has your best interests at heart".
Those aren't the only two options.

You seem to lack the ability to think in shades of grey.

[Niall_Quinn]

Jimmy stuck to his guns throughout. A rabid lefty, but another of the very few lefties who isn't terrified to use his brain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMxfcz1aGqs

There's no way to convert the flock in one hit. You have to work with each individual sheep. Thankless, but it's the only way.

[Letters]

Yeah. Wake up, sheeple!
Stop mindlessly believing and parroting the MSM.
You should be mindlessly believing and parroting the blogs and YouTube channels which tell you what you want to hear, no matter how often they’re shown to be wrong.
That’s independent thinking for you

Silly old NQ

[Ollie the Optimist]

Believing that the mainstream media are out to get us and constantly trying to mislead us and that everything they say is false isn't a "healthy understanding".
You also believe that if someone doesn't see things the way you do then the only possible alternative is that they believe everything the MSM says and that they believe the MSM to be completely neutral and honest.
Those aren't the only two options.
In the same way that your paranoia that the state is out to get you and control every aspect of your life leads you to straw man anyone who doesn't believe that by claiming that they believe that "The state has your best interests at heart".
Those aren't the only two options.

You seem to lack the ability to think in shades of grey.

The MSM also don’t speak with one voice. Take our media for example, the telegraph & mail are right wing & the guardian & mirror are left wing. The express are just on another planet

We have a choice which ones to read and while i tend to read the telegraph or the times, i will seek out articles in the guardian etc for differing view points. For example, i think Owen Jones is a prick but still read some of his articles to see the arguments he makes. I know before i read it that I’m almost certain to disagree but there are on occasions some interesting points that he makes.

Take america, the media over there are wildly different. You cannot say that CNN & Fox News are remotely similar.


It’s simply unhealthy to just say the MSM are wrong & should be ignored. There is such a range of opinions that they do not speak with one voice. The telegraph & the guardian do not say the same things. Yes they are aiming at different audiences but reading both only helps the reader form their opinions and to consider different sides.

[Niall_Quinn]

The MSM also don’t speak with one voice. Take our media for example, the telegraph & mail are right wing & the guardian & mirror are left wing. The express are just on another planet

We have a choice which ones to read and while i tend to read the telegraph or the times, i will seek out articles in the guardian etc for differing view points. For example, i think Owen Jones is a prick but still read some of his articles to see the arguments he makes. I know before i read it that I’m almost certain to disagree but there are on occasions some interesting points that he makes.

Take america, the media over there are wildly different. You cannot say that CNN & Fox News are remotely similar.


It’s simply unhealthy to just say the MSM are wrong & should be ignored. There is such a range of opinions that they do not speak with one voice. The telegraph & the guardian do not say the same things. Yes they are aiming at different audiences but reading both only helps the reader form their opinions and to consider different sides.

You really ought to read Chomsky for a basic primer in media. Without that, or some similar reference that explains how propaganda works and how ALL mainstream media employs it on a daily basis, it's very difficult to interpret the media. Effective propaganda is 99% fact. Having trust in the 99% to the point where the 1% is missed is a very typical outcome for most. Bad propaganda is what the mainstream media has evolved into, mainly because the good propaganda goes unchallenged and the trust levels among those who have a lack of discernment sells almost anything, no matter how ridiculous. As "we" (maybe) have seen with the incredible lies and lies by omission that have been blatantly pushed (and believed) by vast segments of the population, on topics ranging from Iraq, through Syria, 911 and more recently Trump and Covid.

I keep telling you the scientific reality that the tests they are using to diagnose Covid don't work. This is a fact which you can easily establish for yourself if you are so inclined. I won't go over it again, read any of my posts on the subject for the details. That's just one item, but a foundational one, upon which a mountain of propaganda is constructed. The media, whether it be Fox News or CNN, the Guardian or Newsmax, blindly accept we have a rising number of Covid "cases". They won't tell you the very definition of a "case" has quietly been redefined. They won't expose the rather obvious conclusion that more testing means more "cases" as per the new definition, although there are hardly any actual cases by the prior definition. They won't talk about the plummeting mortality rate from non-Covid related respiratory diseases. They don't discuss the excess mortality other than to relate it directly to Covid. What about excess deaths occurring from the lockdowns themselves and the shit show of an NHS that has abandoned its non-Covid patients? Remarkably, ther won't investigate the absolute scandal that occurred in care homes during the real epidemic.

No. You get a "case" count. You get a hospitalisation count that is automatically assigned to Covid. You get a mortality rate that is automatically attributed to Covid and no further questions asked or welcomed.

Now you might go away and conduct a search to find times where they actually have talked about some of these issues. An article here, a mention there. That's good propaganda. Mention something undesirable once, with heavy denials and excuses attached. Then mention something desirable a thousand time. Which one do you thing plays out in the public discourse? And, of course, when somebody accuses the media of being a propaganda merchant you can point back to that lone apology of an article and there's your proof that all is fair and balanced. Meanwhile the endless push of fake news continues.

Propaganda is not about telling easily provable lies. Even a fool can see through that. It's about wrapping your lie in the truth and then repeating the lie until it becomes a publicly accepted "truth".

So, cases are up. Hospitalisations are up. Deaths are up. All lies. People without symptoms aren't cases. Hospitalisations are always up at this time of year and it's perfectly understandable the NHS is overwhelmed considering they bailed on all their non-Covid patients and keep sending their staff home due to fake testing. And deaths can be explained in the same way. Of course when you leave cancer patients and patients with heart disease and other progressive diseases unattended their situation will become more serious. But all you need to convert them all into an epidemic is a fake test.

Many, many medical professionals and scientists make all or some of the criticisms and observations mentioned above. Unfortunately the media has smeared and censored them and you have to wade through a platoon of morons to dare hear what they have to say. Try convincing the good Germans who lap up their daily dose of mainstream media that any other viewpoint is worthy of attention. They won't and seemingly can't hear it. They are conditioned to dismiss it out of hand, with scorn or outright denial, or by using propaganda techniques of their own.

Read Chomsky. He'll explain it better than I can. Once you understand how it works it's usually very easy to spot the propaganda, especially of the mainstream media variety.

[Letters]

I keep telling you the scientific reality that the tests they are using to diagnose Covid don't work.

How strange that these tests that don't work correlate with hospitalisations which correlate with deaths.



(Source https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ )

A friend pointed out this correlation before Christmas and I scoffed somewhat because I, too, didn't take much notice of cases - a lot of young people testing positive who mostly aren't going to get ill is a bit meaningless. But he was right, the correlation is clear. The peak of positive test is followed a little later with a peak of hospitalisations which is then followed by a peak in deaths.



The excess all cause mortality which has been evident all autumn into winter, growing to 30% since Christmas is pretty much all being attributed to Covid.

https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/static...nd-latest.html

And yes, hospitalisations are high every winter but this year has been much higher than other years - I struggled to find good data around this but certainly in London that's true. The other recent years are shown in grey:



You need to be a bit careful about that graph because it's not 0 based, but it's still 30% above the last five years. I've heard enough from people on the front line to be pretty sure that this is different from other years.

So...you said you changed your opinion based on the data, why are you ignoring this data? Is it all wrong? Lies? "Propaganda"?
I noticed that "propaganda" is one of your catch all terms for something you don't agree with - I posted a video a while ago about the tests and you called it "propaganda" - the video was a science teacher who is also a YouTuber. He wasn't representing any organisation or government. You made no attempt to argue with what he said you just called it propaganda and walked off

TL;DR - you called the tests random in another thread. If that is true then you need to explain the correlation I've shown.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Dominion are now sueing Rudy Giuliani for over a billion dollars for his false allegations that they fixed the election etc.


Now if Giuliani really has evidence that the voting machines were rigged, now might be a good time to reveal it otherwise he wont have much money left

[Niall_Quinn]

Dominion are now sueing Rudy Giuliani for over a billion dollars for his false allegations that they fixed the election etc.


Now if Giuliani really has evidence that the voting machines were rigged, now might be a good time to reveal it otherwise he wont have much money left

They're suing a list of individuals for alleged harm caused by the allegations made against them, which will end up revealing far more about them than the defendants. Unless we start seeing bullshit about the testimony being held in camera.