Do we need a new manager?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

This job and the enormity of the decay this club has suffered for more than a decade was always a tall ask for any Rookie, and every serious football mind knew this. Lets not forget that Freddie (who at least had managed our youth team) was the experiment before Arteta and it was clear that anyone learning on the job would need to work miracles to revive this carcass that is now Arsenal football club!

When I say clearly that football clubs should only be owned and run by people who actually love and appreciate the game (fans of the game first) you all seem not to understand how integral this is to getting us back to what we use to be.

Anyway, like I said and felt before we appointed the Rookie, a coach who understands this league would be better for us, especially in the stage we are in now.

Ancelotti has recovered from his bad patch which was pretty predictable. He was my first choice before the suits went with Arteta. He is still achievable but surely only at the end of the season now.

I had mentioned Rodgers before the Emery pick and that was snubbed by gooners who usually turn up their noses at anything not European or "exotic". I don't think he will leave Leicester for us anymore though (maybe pre-Arteta but not now).

For the majority of the spoilt fans with "exotic" tastes and that "we want to be the example" attitude, I still think the Wolves coach, Nuno Espirito Santo would leave this team solid, pretty much the defensive work Arteta has achieved, but with the experience and nous to actually manage and get the best from experienced and older players.

I once uttered the words "we deserve a Mourinho after Wenger" and though I still think he would have shook this club and done a better job than any of our poor picks so far, I am also now of the mind that once he went through his inevitable bad patch, he might have done more harm to psyche of our young players and the club that even 50 years of Wenger could never replicate! I am also happy he's been quoted severally saying he'd never take the job.

The foreign big names are all up there to but I honestly think it would be too much of a gamble with the current poor state we are in.

Rebuilding, if you are doing it the right way, can take ages and several managers, Liverpool of the 80's and Man U of now should be the stories we look at, the worst thing we can do is give up and revert to our snobby and lazy attitude..... to make it clear, this would be putting all our eggs in the Arteta basket.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I'm a bit conflicted.
I don't want us be one of those clubs who hops from manager to manager. That rarely works.
That said, Arteta has no proven record as a manager. He was always a punt. He won us the FA Cup and that certainly bought him some good will and time, but this season has been a complete car crash.
I like Arteta and he certainly talks a good game. And I have to say we have been getting some really bad luck recently. But the way we are playing is not inspiring, we don't dominate teams. We do in terms of possession but when's the last time we actually battered a team. Even when we have got wins they've been close and scrappy. It was a good result and performance at Old Trafford but we created very little, but for a silly penalty it would have petered out to a 0-0. West Ham we got a late winner but it wasn't convincing.
Forget the Chelsea game - we night get something but I'm more interested in the 2 games after that where we're playing teams round us. If we get poor results in those then he surely has to go.

You are not conflicted, your post clearly shows you are not happy with Arteta's style of play or the results.

I think we should simplify this guys: we are not choosing life partners, we are choosing coaches, they come and go...... SAF and AW are once in a lifetime exceptions and we can see the damage both of them have done to their clubs.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The culture of any organisation is set from the top.

The owner has one objective, and it isn’t success on the football pitch.

Chances are, we’ll stay up and he’ll keep making money.

[Bumble]

You are not conflicted, your post clearly shows you are not happy with Arteta's style of play or the results.

I think we should simplify this guys: we are not choosing life partners, we are choosing coaches, they come and go...... SAF and AW are once in a lifetime exceptions and we can see the damage both of them have done to their clubs.

What damage did SAF do to united. They won the league in his last season? Unless it was setting ridiculously high standards.

Did wenger really ruin arsenal, he probably hung around longer than he should have. But the decisions since signings, structure of the club with raul etc. There are some poor signings left from the era. But both coaches have followed the same pattern. Start really well, team plays high intensity closing down football however this overtime stops and goes back to something dull and ineffective. No coach guarantees anything but there are coaches out there who will be able to fix the issues, it could be the next appointment the one after that. Artetas appointment only works if he is going to give the young players a go. Like smith rowe amn willock neilsen nketiah etc as least it would look like a plan. But arteta is lucky there are no crowds.

[IBK]

The culture of any organisation is set from the top.

The owner has one objective, and it isn’t success on the football pitch.

Chances are, we’ll stay up and he’ll keep making money.

I have to disagree with the idea that the shit show we are in is down to our owners not caring about how we do on the pitch. There is a degree of absenteeism that has affected us in the past - but the role of Josh Kroenke more recently and most recently the appointment of Tim Lewis has sought to address this. Lewis was instrumental in ridding us of the cancer that was Raul Sanllehi.

The Kroenkes seemed content for AW to lowball player investment, but over the past couple of years our more recent player spend - both in transfer fees and wages has been high. High enough in my view to scotch this idea that the owner is bleeding the club dry while refusing to invest in players.

IMO it is a lazy and over simplistic view to claim that Arsenal is the victim of the owners' lack of ambition. Our problems derive from 2 core issues, IMO. Firstly a refusal to accept the reality that we are no longer a top 4 club. This is the reason why 'quick fix' decisions continue to be made in terms of recruitment, and also why successive managers try to find the impossible solution of making a disparate core group of senior players click rather than starting from the bottom up.

Secondly, complacency. For years now our players - at least the senior ones - have operated in a pampered bubble where there are (for most) no consequences for under-performance, and lack the fight and committment that we so badly need. Also, we keep giving players the benefit of the doubt that they will come good, or reward them financially with new contracts that reward past performances where our successful competitors take pragmatic decisions about current, and future usefulness and tailor new contracts accordingly. In an era where players have far too much power generally our club is a soft touch and many of our current players see the club as serving them rather than the other way round. This is one of the biggest issues with AW's legacy, that the Kroenkes bought into.

If the owners are at fault, it is for their naivety and failure to understand the dynamics at play at our club, not their committment to exploiting the club. Lack of leadership at the very top maybe, but not the lack of ambition that has become accepted wisdom for many.

[Ralpheroo72]

Should never have left Highbury, the Emirates has ruined the club. No soul, no direction, just a vehicle to make money for an absentee owner.

[IBK]

This job and the enormity of the decay this club has suffered for more than a decade was always a tall ask for any Rookie, and every serious football mind knew this. Lets not forget that Freddie (who at least had managed our youth team) was the experiment before Arteta and it was clear that anyone learning on the job would need to work miracles to revive this carcass that is now Arsenal football club!

When I say clearly that football clubs should only be owned and run by people who actually love and appreciate the game (fans of the game first) you all seem not to understand how integral this is to getting us back to what we use to be.

Anyway, like I said and felt before we appointed the Rookie, a coach who understands this league would be better for us, especially in the stage we are in now.

Ancelotti has recovered from his bad patch which was pretty predictable. He was my first choice before the suits went with Arteta. He is still achievable but surely only at the end of the season now.

I had mentioned Rodgers before the Emery pick and that was snubbed by gooners who usually turn up their noses at anything not European or "exotic". I don't think he will leave Leicester for us anymore though (maybe pre-Arteta but not now).

For the majority of the spoilt fans with "exotic" tastes and that "we want to be the example" attitude, I still think the Wolves coach, Nuno Espirito Santo would leave this team solid, pretty much the defensive work Arteta has achieved, but with the experience and nous to actually manage and get the best from experienced and older players.

I once uttered the words "we deserve a Mourinho after Wenger" and though I still think he would have shook this club and done a better job than any of our poor picks so far, I am also now of the mind that once he went through his inevitable bad patch, he might have done more harm to psyche of our young players and the club that even 50 years of Wenger could never replicate! I am also happy he's been quoted severally saying he'd never take the job.

The foreign big names are all up there to but I honestly think it would be too much of a gamble with the current poor state we are in.

Rebuilding, if you are doing it the right way, can take ages and several managers, Liverpool of the 80's and Man U of now should be the stories we look at, the worst thing we can do is give up and revert to our snobby and lazy attitude..... to make it clear, this would be putting all our eggs in the Arteta basket.

Depends for how long. We have (mistakenly in my view) put all our eggs in Arteta's basket - particularly with what now seems to be a disastrous decision to make him manager, rather than spreading the risk of his inexperience by having a director of football above him. Common sense for me says that this needs to be addressed. but as I said in the OP the real question is what the benefit of replacing him now will be when we are arguably at our lowest point and the likelihood is that anyone coming in won't have the credentials to do anything but at best improve our finishing position this season by a few places. If rebuilding this basket case will take time, then the next managerial decision should surely be with a view to the longer term - and the decision itself should not be rushed.

[Gooner23]

The issues at the club run way deeper than just the manager; however the decisions Arteta is making are increasingly bizarre and the 'brand' of football just cannot be defended. For that reason I reluctantly do think he needs to go.

If he was blooding more of the youth players and showing some signs of progress I think he would earn more time and patience.

But if Arteta goes then so must Edu. Both seem out of their depth.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Depends for how long. We have (mistakenly in my view) put all our eggs in Arteta's basket - particularly with what now seems to be a disastrous decision to make him manager, rather than spreading the risk of his inexperience by having a director of football above him. Common sense for me says that this needs to be addressed. but as I said in the OP the real question is what the benefit of replacing him now will be when we are arguably at our lowest point and the likelihood is that anyone coming in won't have the credentials to do anything but at best improve our finishing position this season by a few places. If rebuilding this basket case will take time, then the next managerial decision should surely be with a view to the longer term - and the decision itself should not be rushed.

Replacing Arteta immediately is something I have not yet made up my mind on, mainly because I can't see any options besides Pooch and our season is already over.

However I have made up my mind that there is nothing special about Arteta and he's definitely not the genius we were sold (sounds familiar right). This realisation is all that matters IMO and if I was making decisions for Arsenal would guide everything I do from henceforth.... simply put , we need a new manager.

Anything else is just repeating the same mistakes we made with Emery and killing the team further.

[Mac76]

The issues at the club run way deeper than just the manager; however the decisions Arteta is making are increasingly bizarre and the 'brand' of football just cannot be defended. For that reason I reluctantly do think he needs to go.

If he was blooding more of the youth players and showing some signs of progress I think he would earn more time and patience.

But if Arteta goes then so must Edu. Both seem out of their depth.