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Thread: European Super League

  1. #301
    Selling optimism to fools KSE Comedy Club's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    It seems this whole ESL thing is closely connected with a train that was leaving a station with people hopping onto it without knowing where it was going.

    This certainly seems like the most likely explanation.

  2. #302
    Administrator Letters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBK View Post
    a small part of all of us felt the same way about Chelsea and Citeh leaving us out in the cold when it came to their unlimited investment power.
    Quite a big bit of me felt that way. But I think that was justified. It was like we were all playing football manager and then someone turned on the infinite money cheat. Sure, some clubs have more money than others, some simply have larger fan bases and stadiums and of course that is going to have an effect. The ideal though in sport is to make the playing field as level as possible.

    Bit of trivia for you, Arsenal won the Double in 1970/71.
    The point is the previous season we finished 12th, the following season we finished 5th (Derby won the title that following year, having finished 9th the previous season). In fact, looking at the Champions in and around our Double win, it went like this:

    66 Liverpool
    67 Man Utd
    68 Man City
    69 Leeds
    70 Everton
    71 Arsenal
    72 Derby

    7 different champions in 7 consecutive years. And the reason for that is sure, some clubs have more money than others but the difference was limited.
    You had a culture in football where the crowd is mostly local and working class, they pay on the day and ticket prices are low. You don't have merchandise or advertising rights or TV packages, or nowhere near to the same extent as now. You certainly don't have a global audience or fanbase.
    You do have European football but there are no huge financial rewards and only a couple of teams get in a year so you don't have teams getting in year on year.

    You can never completely level the playing field but in that culture you can make the difference less stark, give the chance for mobility. It means that the fans of many teams can dream of Cup glory or even a title. Now everything in football is designed to make the difference between the haves and have nots as big as possible. It's actually quite impressive that despite this Arsenal have managed to be so terrible over the last few seasons, given that we are one of the "haves".

    From 2005-2015 there were only 3 different title winners. What a coincidence that it was Utd, City and Chelsea - a team with a silly amount of money (earned through previous success, to be fair, but still) and two teams who have bought their way in to the top table.
    What Leicester did was refreshing and shouldn't be possible in the modern era. But it was an aberration and is unlikely to be repeated. Klopp is a good manager but Liverpool have spent big to get where they've got.

    The ESL was just another step in this, the thing which seems to have angered people is that it was a closed shop. But while it would have been another step towards a closed shop of big clubs, all the other steps over the last 20 or 30 years have already made the top group of clubs nigh on impossible to clamber into anyway.

    TL;DR - football is a bit shit these days.

  3. #303
    Administrator Letters's Avatar
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  4. #304
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    Part of me was hoping this went through so we could begin the great reset in English football. Those 6 would get kicked out and then the english league could become competitive again. Different winners each season. Cost of subscriptions and tickets reduces. Players wages reduce. All money grabers can go to the super league and rot.

  5. #305
    Member Mac76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letters View Post
    He's basically saying they'll have to buy their way out, so now he gets rich without having to even set up the ESL...

  6. #306
    Member Mac76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumble View Post
    Part of me was hoping this went through so we could begin the great reset in English football. Those 6 would get kicked out and then the english league could become competitive again. Different winners each season. Cost of subscriptions and tickets reduces. Players wages reduce. All money grabers can go to the super league and rot.
    Don't be silly, those six would've simply been replaced by another 'big six' who'd have similarly done everything they could to stitch it all up for their own benefit - don't be fooled by Neverton's holier-than-though act, they'd have joined the ESL at the drop of a hat if asked

  7. #307
    Member IBK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    Said the same myself a couple of days ago. But included the fans. We've all watched that cash porn show on Sky with the transfer money clock racing into orbit. The fans buy the shirts stitched by the slave labourers so the players can earn more in a week than those labourers will earn in a lifetime. And the wankers can't even take a corner or stay on their feet for 2 minutes.

    Apparently it's the way the world works and can't be changed. And yet Covid shows the world can be changed, overnight. This is a rare chance to change football too, if the fans can stick together and not be swayed by the bullshit cover stories now being pressed. Doubtful, but it's a very rare opportunity where the conceptual (if not actual) balance of power has shifted for a moment at least.
    I suppose you're right re fans, but for me they are last in the list when it comes to handing out blame. We are led by the nose, yes, but also our club loyalties are exploited by those manipulating the game for their own financial ends. It's a rare fan indeed who isn't tempted by sellig their soul for the footballing glory we all crave.
    Putting the laughter back into manslaughter

  8. #308
    Member IBK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letters View Post
    Quite a big bit of me felt that way. But I think that was justified. It was like we were all playing football manager and then someone turned on the infinite money cheat. Sure, some clubs have more money than others, some simply have larger fan bases and stadiums and of course that is going to have an effect. The ideal though in sport is to make the playing field as level as possible.

    Bit of trivia for you, Arsenal won the Double in 1970/71.
    The point is the previous season we finished 12th, the following season we finished 5th (Derby won the title that following year, having finished 9th the previous season). In fact, looking at the Champions in and around our Double win, it went like this:

    66 Liverpool
    67 Man Utd
    68 Man City
    69 Leeds
    70 Everton
    71 Arsenal
    72 Derby

    7 different champions in 7 consecutive years. And the reason for that is sure, some clubs have more money than others but the difference was limited.
    You had a culture in football where the crowd is mostly local and working class, they pay on the day and ticket prices are low. You don't have merchandise or advertising rights or TV packages, or nowhere near to the same extent as now. You certainly don't have a global audience or fanbase.
    You do have European football but there are no huge financial rewards and only a couple of teams get in a year so you don't have teams getting in year on year.

    You can never completely level the playing field but in that culture you can make the difference less stark, give the chance for mobility. It means that the fans of many teams can dream of Cup glory or even a title. Now everything in football is designed to make the difference between the haves and have nots as big as possible. It's actually quite impressive that despite this Arsenal have managed to be so terrible over the last few seasons, given that we are one of the "haves".

    From 2005-2015 there were only 3 different title winners. What a coincidence that it was Utd, City and Chelsea - a team with a silly amount of money (earned through previous success, to be fair, but still) and two teams who have bought their way in to the top table.
    What Leicester did was refreshing and shouldn't be possible in the modern era. But it was an aberration and is unlikely to be repeated. Klopp is a good manager but Liverpool have spent big to get where they've got.

    The ESL was just another step in this, the thing which seems to have angered people is that it was a closed shop. But while it would have been another step towards a closed shop of big clubs, all the other steps over the last 20 or 30 years have already made the top group of clubs nigh on impossible to clamber into anyway.

    TL;DR - football is a bit shit these days.
    All good points, but the principle of it is largely the same. We were still fortunate to be a big team in a small pond in our glory days, and I'm not sure that fans of so-called smaller clubs would see the moral distinction between this and us resenting the extension of football doping that the oligarch era ushered in...
    Putting the laughter back into manslaughter

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac76 View Post
    Don't be silly, those six would've simply been replaced by another 'big six' who'd have similarly done everything they could to stitch it all up for their own benefit - don't be fooled by Neverton's holier-than-though act, they'd have joined the ESL at the drop of a hat if asked
    ah yes but there would be less money in football so the incentives would be less given less point to exploitation. well its not happening but we can hope

  10. #310
    Member Mac76's Avatar
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    "Tottenham, who were also part of the short-lived European Super League breakaway, were not represented in the three groups, which were introduced 18 months ago and discuss ideas before they are presented to clubs to vote on. "

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56931186

    Spuds

    Big club

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