When will Arteta be sacked by

[Mac76]

I didn't mention Liverpool, that's you projecting

There's still a lot of people who still think that situation is more nuanced than it's now acceptable to say in public, the Scum did go all-in on it though which was characteriatically trouble-stirring and divisive

[Chippy]

I won't click on an article in The Scum, what does it say?

Hmmmmm.... I suspect a Mirror reader or indeed, the Morning Star?

[HCZ_Reborn]

I didn't mention Liverpool, that's you projecting

There's still a lot of people who still think that situation is more nuanced than it's now acceptable to say in public, the Scum did go all-in on it though which was characteriatically trouble-stirring and divisive

I wasn’t suggesting for a second you were, I literally used the attitude towards the Sun in Liverpool as an example of how people like to virtue signal.


That said, I do think there is justifiable anger. If people want to claim there is more nuance I think they should feel free to say so, but they are factually wrong. Brian Clough for example spent years claiming that the fans bore some responsibility even though this was purely opinion based on his part as when asked about it he never tried to claim that he witnessed any incident personally that would back up his belief. But there had been pitch invasions at the city ground (by Forest fans) and there was a notable incident of him chinning one and then making the same person give him a kiss on the cheek in a press conference a day later .



The truth about Hillsborough is fairly straight forward. There’d almost been a similar crush the previous year (another fa cup semi final tie between Forest and Liverpool).

The Liverpool fans had gained a reputation for trouble making from Heysel which led to putting fencing up between the terraces and the pitch.

But David Duckenfeld had never been a matchday commander previously, he was put in the role because the previous matchday commander had been suspended over bullying allegations (the type of thing Peter Wright would usually ignore because the man was a scumbag) and he basically had little understanding either of the role or the layout of the ground.

Now Liverpool like last year had been given allocation in the Leppings lane end which was too small anyway but because of the fear of them misbehaving it was better to have them in one small area. The Forest fans were all in the Spion Kop at the other side of the ground.

The concourse outside the Leppings lane ground wasn’t very large, triangular shaped area with wooden fences on either side reinforced with corrugated iron. And a bottleneck was being created by fans who were waiting to get in because there simply weren’t enough turnstiles for everyone to get through quickly, and Duckenfeld panicked and opened one of the side pens precipitating the very problem he was trying to avoid. Because opening that side pen rather than shutting it off and shepherding the fans through a passage that would open out into the main area of the stand, it pushed them all into the already overcrowded section.

Then they mistook people climbing over the fence for a pitch invasion and this is why they delayed allowing Ambulances on the pitch, because they were more scared about dealing with a riot that never materialised than getting people emergency care.

The police on duty when they realised what was happening, I think did try their best to help…helping fans tear up the advertising hoardings to use as makeshift stretchers, but the order to cut through the fencing took ages to come because again Duckenfeld partly because he didn’t realise how serious things were and partly because he was still more interested in crowd control gave the order too late.

This was incompetence pure and simple. But that wasn’t what caused this to drag on till today. It was the cover up, the attempt to create a narrative of drunken fans, or fans storming in….Duckenfeld originally lied and said the fans had broken through the pen, but had to retract that statement after CCTV proved it was a lie. McKenzie had ran the article which was based on the account given to a journalist by a right wing Tory MP called Irvine Patnick who was the member for Sheffield Hallam.

Patnick of course was a golfing buddy of Peter Wright….so even South Yorkshire were indirectly responsible for perpetuating that.

The fans were actually exonerated by the Taylor report a year later. The subsequent tribunals and enquries were about whether a) the police had instigated a cover up (they had) and b) Whether more people could have been saved if police had acted quicker…..which ultimately the Bishop of Liverpool enquiry in 2012 concluded that about half of the 97 who died could have been saved if police had allowed ambulances on the pitch before they did and if they had cut the fencing before they did.


This is all clear and unambiguous, but don’t believe me…it’s a matter of public record

[HCZ_Reborn]

Hmmmmm.... I suspect a Mirror reader or indeed, the Morning Star?

I have no idea what his age is, but unless he’s over 50 it’s unlikely he reads print media full stop.

I read the Independent and The New Statesman at times up till about 2015 when one became ideologically captured by what we now call Wokeism and the other captured by Corbynism.

I now largely just read articles online until I encounter a pay wall. If the article is worth reading I don’t care if it appears in the Guardian or the Mail.

Same attitude with American journalism, don’t care if it’s the New York Times or New York Post.

[Mac76]

Hmmmmm.... I suspect a Mirror reader or indeed, the Morning Star?

try reading the rest of the thread

[WMUG]

Anyway, the article was claiming that the Barcelona were sniffing around for Arteta to replace Xavi.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Anyway, the article was claiming that the Barcelona were sniffing around for Arteta to replace Xavi.

The thing is with that, Arteta may be no where near as intelligent as he thinks he is. Hes smart enough to know that Barcelona don’t have great spending power, have a squad full of average or ageing players and he absolutely wouldn’t get the authority he enjoys here or be given the time he’s been given here to win major silverware.

Although he has history with Barcelona as a youth player, he was never considered good enough to make it into the first team and given that he’s from the Basque region there’s no particular emotional draw for him either.

Pity from my perspective, but zero chance he’d go there

[Mac76]

Anyway, the article was claiming that the Barcelona were sniffing around for Arteta to replace Xavi.

Thanks

HCZ

[HCZ_Reborn]

Thanks

HCZ

Fair enough, not really sure why the laughter. It’s not like I said, don’t anyone tell Mac what the article is about so he’s forced to look in the Sun. Whether you read it or not is your own affair, I said I’m not going to be your translator if you’re not going to read the article.

Which is pretty much if you’re going to be awkward, let someone else tell you

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://x.com/gunnersc0m/status/1766...k_DvSqUkaQFrjw


I think Shearer is right, I don’t think it helps for Arteta to be micromanaging like this. And I doubt players appreciate it from someone who never had much more than an average playing career