Match reaction V Burnley Away

[Chippy]

Are we not doing this anymore?

I know that many of us feel that Arteta is not the man to take us forward, but some football chat on a football chat site would be nice

The good news is another clean sheet albeit against Norwich last week and this mob who wanted to kick us off the park.

Gabriel is a breath of fresh air in the heart of the defence and Tomiyasu has given us a bit of strength in the RB position.

Our creative play is still pretty poor with only 2 goals thus far.

I am still in the "Arteta out" club of course, but at least we have seen a few positives. And we are off the bottom of the table!

Next up.......the Scum.

[IBK]

Are we not doing this anymore?

I know that many of us feel that Arteta is not the man to take us forward, but some football chat on a football chat site would be nice

The good news is another clean sheet albeit against Norwich last week and this mob who wanted to kick us off the park.

Gabriel is a breath of fresh air in the heart of the defence and Tomiyasu has given us a bit of strength in the RB position.

Our creative play is still pretty poor with only 2 goals thus far.

I am still in the "Arteta out" club of course, but at least we have seen a few positives. And we are off the bottom of the table!

Next up.......the Scum.

I think Arsenal has finally taken GW's soul away!

Only listened to the match, but here's my take on it. Arteta seems to have gone back to the basics that we saw in his first (incomplete) season with us, and looked to shore up the defence. This time however it is better players rather than whole team defensive shape that seems to have made us more resiliant. Gabriel and Ramsdale were the difference here, and if we can get them, together with Tomi; Ben White and Tierney playing together regularly, I think we have the makings of a top 6 defence.

Interesting to see us perform well in MF effectively with Partey on his own rather than part of a double pivot, and it worked fairly well. Also plenty of attacking intent - but let down by bad passing and decision making in the final third. I don't know what to think about this really. On the one hand these MF and forward players have had little or no playing time as a unit. On the other, we had a whole week to prepare for this, and there's reatively little excuse for so many stray passes (long grass, dry, shit pitch?). How come Burnley got so much second ball and we didn't?

For me this team still needs confidence and momentum. We seem to be affected by the fact that ATM every game is effectively a cup final on which the manager's future rests. A NLD win would in my view go some way to puffing chests out a bit. I am worried by the manager's failure to get more attacking wise out of what is now a pretty talented squad - with decent options in Sambi; AMN and Tavares - and even Laca (our bench suddenly looks more interesting). Not much point in going for ball players back to front if moves keep breaking down because the wrong choices are made. Still I suppose we can only keep taking baby steps at this point...

[I am invisible]

After years of shambolic, heart-in-mouth defending, and going from zero to 5 nil down in 20 minutes, I think Arteta has unwittingly given this team a safety blanket to cling onto with the rigid positional discipline and defensive security he initially introduced, and he’s now struggling to wean them off it again. Sure, we looked solid last year, but that was in large part because our defenders rarely stepped too far from out 18 yard box and it left the midfield and forwards way too stretched - the challenge now is to get the team to step out again and learn how to both defend and attack we’ll at the same time.

It will happen eventually, but it has to start with the defence. The more the new-look back 5 continues to prove that it can handle business (particularly in open play), the more confidence the team will have to really commit to attack without nagging fears and doubts causing them to hesitate and look over their shoulders.

A huge injection of fresh faces, who aren’t irreparably damaged from their time in the Arsenal trenches, will also be a big help once they settle and gel.

[Chippy]

After years of shambolic, heart-in-mouth defending, and going from zero to 5 nil down in 20 minutes, I think Arteta has unwittingly given this team a safety blanket to cling onto with the rigid positional discipline and defensive security he initially introduced, and he’s now struggling to wean them off it again. Sure, we looked solid last year, but that was in large part because our defenders rarely stepped too far from out 18 yard box and it left the midfield and forwards way too stretched - the challenge now is to get the team to step out again and learn how to both defend and attack we’ll at the same time.

It will happen eventually, but it has to start with the defence. The more the new-look back 5 continues to prove that it can handle business (particularly in open play), the more confidence the team will have to really commit to attack without nagging fears and doubts causing them to hesitate and look over their shoulders.

A huge injection of fresh faces, who aren’t irreparably damaged from their time in the Arsenal trenches, will also be a big help once they settle and gel.

Your comments make me think that is why Arteta will be given the full season. Unless a real relegation battle comes to the fore, which is fairly unlikly.

[Mac76]

Your comments make me think that is why Arteta will be given the full season. Unless a real relegation battle comes to the fore, which is fairly unlikly.

it's difficult really, up to a short while ago i really wanted us to carry on doing badly so he'd go, but i can't deny seeing the new players plus Partey and Gabriel come in and get results is good

as i've said before the real test is Xhaka - if he gets straight back in as a regular then what kind of message does that send

Arteta needs to think about that carefully, especially against Spuds as they'll target him like anything if he plays

[I am invisible]

it's difficult really, up to a short while ago i really wanted us to carry on doing badly so he'd go, but i can't deny seeing the new players plus Partey and Gabriel come in and get results is good

as i've said before the real test is Xhaka - if he gets straight back in as a regular then what kind of message does that send

Arteta needs to think about that carefully, especially against Spuds as they'll target him like anything if he plays

It's not a case of all is forgiven, but it at least brings people back to the table - "OK, I'm listening - what do you have to say?" sort of thing.

For me the test is whether Leno comes back in. Because of course Xhaka is going straight back into the side! If it was just an Arteta thing then I'd probably be pissed, but he just seems to be one of those rare players where the professional footballing world and the supporting world just see a completely different player - every manager / coach he's ever worked with has picked him as first choice, and I have no doubt at all that he'll be the first name on the team sheet for our next manager too. He must give off some kind of pheromone or something that affects anyone in close proximity to him?

[dazthegooner]

Probably gives good head

[I am invisible]

Your comments make me think that is why Arteta will be given the full season. Unless a real relegation battle comes to the fore, which is fairly unlikly.

Tbh, unless there's a genuine chance to get someone like Conte immediately (which I don't think there is) then I'm not in any great rush to make a change. If all we're looking at is Eddie Howes and Paulo Fonsecas, or yesterday's men like Mourinho, then I think I'd rather just let Arteta and Edu carry on with what they're doing.

Are they moving the needle on the pitch? Not a great deal - the defence is better, but the attack is in limbo. But... they are, slowly but surely, driving out all the bums and problem-players, reducing the size of our bloated squad and getting the wage bill under control again. They are modernising our approach to player identification and recruitment, and are rebuilding us around younger, more athletic players with sell-on value. They seem to be getting on top of contracts and have stopped the exodus of our best academy talents. And they're reestablishing pride and professional standards, and technical fundamentals like shape and how to defend. We are actually ticking off problems under these guys.

Sure, they've made some mistakes along the way (Willian, Cedric, the way Saliba has been handled, etc), but that's going to happen with rookies - we're basically talking about the managerial and executive equivalents of Saka or Smith Rowe, so they're still learning themselves. On the whole, though, I think they at least give a shit and are genuinely trying to do what's right for the club - they at least see and acknowledge the mess the club is in and are attempting to do something about it. That's more than I can say for anyone else who's come before them since we fell out of the CL places.

As you say, if the threat of relegation ever becomes serious then that will obviously put a rush on making a change, but in the meantime the worst that will happen is we still won't be in Europe and we'll all be a little bored. I can live with that for another year or so if it means that the next manager then walks into a club with no fires to put out and a solid platform to build on (much like when Wenger picked up GG's defence and built on it).

[Chippy]

Tbh, unless there's a genuine chance to get someone like Conte immediately (which I don't think there is) then I'm not in any great rush to make a change. If all we're looking at is Eddie Howes and Paulo Fonsecas, or yesterday's men like Mourinho, then I think I'd rather just let Arteta and Edu carry on with what they're doing.

Are they moving the needle on the pitch? Not a great deal - the defence better, but the attack is in limbo. But... they are, slowly but surely, driving out all the bums and problem-players, reducing the size of our bloated squad and getting the wage bill under control again. They are modernising our approach to player identification and recruitment, and are rebuilding us around younger, more athletic players with sell-on value. They seem to be getting on top of contracts and have stopped the exodus of our best academy talents. And they're reestablishing pride and professional standards, and technical fundamentals like shape and how to defend. We are actually ticking off problems under these guys.

Sure, they've made some mistakes along the way (Willian, Cedric, the way Saliba has been handled, etc), but that's going to happen with rookies - we're basically talking about the managerial and executive equivalents of Saka or Smith Rowe, so they're still learning themselves. On the whole, though, I think they at least give a shit and are genuinely trying to do what's right for the club - they at least see and acknowledge the mess the club is in and are attempting to do something about it. That's more than I can say for anyone else who's come before them since we fell out of the CL places.

As you say, if the threat of relegation ever becomes serious then that will obviously put a rush on making a change, but in the meantime the worst that will happen is we still won't be in Europe and we'll all be a little bored. I can live with that for another year or so if it means that the next manager then walks into a club with no fires to put out and a solid platform to build on (much like when Wenger picked up GG's defence and built on it).

[IBK]

Tbh, unless there's a genuine chance to get someone like Conte immediately (which I don't think there is) then I'm not in any great rush to make a change. If all we're looking at is Eddie Howes and Paulo Fonsecas, or yesterday's men like Mourinho, then I think I'd rather just let Arteta and Edu carry on with what they're doing.

Are they moving the needle on the pitch? Not a great deal - the defence is better, but the attack is in limbo. But... they are, slowly but surely, driving out all the bums and problem-players, reducing the size of our bloated squad and getting the wage bill under control again. They are modernising our approach to player identification and recruitment, and are rebuilding us around younger, more athletic players with sell-on value. They seem to be getting on top of contracts and have stopped the exodus of our best academy talents. And they're reestablishing pride and professional standards, and technical fundamentals like shape and how to defend. We are actually ticking off problems under these guys.

Sure, they've made some mistakes along the way (Willian, Cedric, the way Saliba has been handled, etc), but that's going to happen with rookies - we're basically talking about the managerial and executive equivalents of Saka or Smith Rowe, so they're still learning themselves. On the whole, though, I think they at least give a shit and are genuinely trying to do what's right for the club - they at least see and acknowledge the mess the club is in and are attempting to do something about it. That's more than I can say for anyone else who's come before them since we fell out of the CL places.

As you say, if the threat of relegation ever becomes serious then that will obviously put a rush on making a change, but in the meantime the worst that will happen is we still won't be in Europe and we'll all be a little bored. I can live with that for another year or so if it means that the next manager then walks into a club with no fires to put out and a solid platform to build on (much like when Wenger picked up GG's defence and built on it).

As I said on the other thread, I think that as fans we now have no alternative but to accept the new normal in terms of our club's position. Make no mistake, both the appointment of Arteta but more importantly the direction that the club has now taken in building with young players (not to mention the significant investment) is no short term fix, and the sooner we accept this, the happier I think we will be. Whether Arteta has what it takes to make this work is yet to be seen (and its completely understandable why many Gooners are sceptical), but I agree that we need to be careful who we wish for as an alternative - particularly at this stage. Again, I think we need to get our heads around the fact that it is unlikely that a so called 'super manager' would wish to come in and develop the squad (we aren't going to reverse our decided policy and try to buy more immdiate success at this stage, nor should we do so - and we are firmly out of the upper echelons of Europe for a while - so I just cant see the incentive for an established manager with a track record of success to come to Arsenal).

As you say, other than this we are left with relatively inexperienced managers or has beens, and we really do need to be careful what we wish for here. The latter could screw us up even more, and the former would be replacing Arteta like for like.

So yes, I think we need to sit tight and hopefully enjoy seeing some progress now, rather than expecting even top 6 this season. Perhaps there will be less angst if we do.