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Thread: summer '22 transfer craziness and stupidity

  1. #11
    Member Mac76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I am invisible View Post
    Mate, he had issues with his coach at Lorient, with Emery, with Ljungberg, with Arteta, with the coach at Hertha Berlin - where were all the other bids for him, especially at such a knock-down price? No one wanted to go near him.
    well i don't know about Lorient but Emery and Arteta basically have the same small-dick syndrome which means they're having to be the big boss all the time - it's the other side of the coin that gets Xhaka first place on the team sheet, he's obviously a real teacher's pet

    clubs don't have much to spend atm overall either, plus we dont know the small print, e.g. the option for Marseilles to buy if they watned, ahead of bids from other clubs?

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    Member IBK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac76 View Post
    well i don't know about Lorient but Emery and Arteta basically have the same small-dick syndrome which means they're having to be the big boss all the time - it's the other side of the coin that gets Xhaka first place on the team sheet, he's obviously a real teacher's pet

    clubs don't have much to spend atm overall either, plus we dont know the small print, e.g. the option for Marseilles to buy if they watned, ahead of bids from other clubs?
    I have an alternative view re Arteta and the players he has offloaded. All coaches need to have egos if they are going to make step changes and be successful with the model that Arsenal is now following. Emery was nowhere near strong enough to do what was needed at Arsenal and that is fundamentally to change the mindset of the players. I don't think that the togetherness in the squad can be doubted now, and while Arteta's methods may have been fairly blunt, I can't fault him for this. Few people appear to be able to grasp that the bedrock of a successful team is sprit; unity and mindset as much as talent. If the manager decided that Guendouzi; Auba; Willian etc were not committed to the cause or were a disruptive influence, then I applaud him for letting them go. The manager is not responsible for the club's finances.

    As for Xhaka. For all we critcise his mistakes on the pitch he can rarely, if ever, be fairly criticised for lack of effort or professionalism - and remains committed despite the captaincy debacle; and almost being sold in the Summer. the same can be said for Laca - who is turming out to be an amazing captain who leaves it all out on the pitch despite knowing that he will be leaving the club in a few months' time. THAT is the attitude I want to see at the club - not Guendouzi's.
    Putting the laughter back into manslaughter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chippy View Post
    Guendouzi has signed a three year deal with Marseille for just £9m.

    That seems like a steal in the current climate.
    We more or less gave him away as he had issues with Arteta. We should be thankful we even got a fee for him, Edu has paid off most of the other players we have got rid of recently!

    On a serious note it was a steal in the current climate, he is playing very well over there apparently and is now a regular in the France Squad. Still a troubled character though.

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    MOe Marc Overmars's Avatar
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    It’s of course a shame to lose another asset for peanuts but Guendouzi was a little cunt. Not someone Arteta wanted around the place and as the boss that’s fair enough.

    Not been the biggest Arteta fan over recent times but I have to applaud him for weeding out everyone who didn’t want to tow the line. The club needed stripping back to the bare bones for years and now we’ve finally got what seems like a settled group. You have to think this summer is the big one where he will look to add the final pieces of the puzzle.

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    Member IBK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by selassie View Post
    We more or less gave him away as he had issues with Arteta. We should be thankful we even got a fee for him, Edu has paid off most of the other players we have got rid of recently!

    On a serious note it was a steal in the current climate, he is playing very well over there apparently and is now a regular in the France Squad. Still a troubled character though.
    Problem is though that it is revisionist and inaccurate to look at how well ex players may be perfroming since they left Arsenal, and then make judgments on the wisdom of letting them go. Whether a player succeeds is down to a multitude of factors - of which perhaps the most important (more than individual talent) is how they gel with their team mates; manager; system and ethos of a club. There are countless examples of players thriving at one club when they were not the right fit for another - in fact this is almost the norm. For whatever reason Guendouzi was not right for Arteta's Arsenal, and we need to accept that and move on. The player himself did as much or more to devalue himself as an asset for us as the manager did, and like MO I think Arteta did the right thing by letting him go. Same goes for Auba - albeit that I think his departure was due to more nuanced issues of him no longer being right for our sysyem, and an impediment to the team spirit and ethos that the manager is trying to instill.
    Putting the laughter back into manslaughter

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    Member Mac76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBK View Post

    As for Xhaka. For all we critcise his mistakes on the pitch he can rarely, if ever, be fairly criticised for lack of effort or professionalism .
    seriously? how 'professional' is it to constantly be sent off and yellow-carded, or presenting goal-scoring opportunities to the opposition?

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    Member IBK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac76 View Post
    seriously? how 'professional' is it to constantly be sent off and yellow-carded, or presenting goal-scoring opportunities to the opposition?
    I think you are conflating lack of ability with lack of professionalism. Patrick Vieira is the jonit Arsena record holder for number of yellow cards in one season. He also holds the joint EPL recors for red cards; flirted a number of times with other clubs and allegedly threatened to break Roy Keane's leg. Would you argue that he was unprofessional. Most people certainly wouldn't.

    And this is my issue with the Xhaka hate. Most of it stems from the fact that he is in many fans eyes not good enough. In many cases, it is his lack of pace - and desperate attempts to make up for being bested by opposition players - that has led to his bookings. It could be argued that he cares too much, and certainly that he lacks the right temperament to deal with pressure situations, but I don't think this is most accurately described as a lack of professionalism.

    By all accounts, the player is one of the hardest training players we have; a 'go to' player in terms of leadership of other players; and generally speaking his injury record has been astonishing - that perhaps speaks to a desire to be in the picth as well as a physical robustness. He has accepted being played out of position (eg LB) without complaint; never bleats to the press; continued to put maximum effort in after being stripped of the captaincy (admittedly after an unprofessional reaction to the crowd); knuckled down after attemopts to offload him to Roma during the Summer, and while he just isn't an 8/10 player (not his fault) can generally be relied upon to give 7/10 performances week in week out.

    Given Arteta's treatment of players who don't have the right attitude - including players the club has had to pay to leave - do you really think he doesn't show professionalism to the manager?

    I don't particularly want to be a Xhaka cheerleader but I find the hate of this player tiresome. As matters stand he is an integral part of a team that is perfoming well.
    Putting the laughter back into manslaughter

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    Member Mac76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBK View Post
    I think you are conflating lack of ability with lack of professionalism. Patrick Vieira is the jonit Arsena record holder for number of yellow cards in one season. He also holds the joint EPL recors for red cards; flirted a number of times with other clubs and allegedly threatened to break Roy Keane's leg. Would you argue that he was unprofessional. Most people certainly wouldn't.

    And this is my issue with the Xhaka hate. Most of it stems from the fact that he is in many fans eyes not good enough. In many cases, it is his lack of pace - and desperate attempts to make up for being bested by opposition players - that has led to his bookings. It could be argued that he cares too much, and certainly that he lacks the right temperament to deal with pressure situations, but I don't think this is most accurately described as a lack of professionalism.

    By all accounts, the player is one of the hardest training players we have; a 'go to' player in terms of leadership of other players; and generally speaking his injury record has been astonishing - that perhaps speaks to a desire to be in the picth as well as a physical robustness. He has accepted being played out of position (eg LB) without complaint; never bleats to the press; continued to put maximum effort in after being stripped of the captaincy (admittedly after an unprofessional reaction to the crowd); knuckled down after attemopts to offload him to Roma during the Summer, and while he just isn't an 8/10 player (not his fault) can generally be relied upon to give 7/10 performances week in week out.

    Given Arteta's treatment of players who don't have the right attitude - including players the club has had to pay to leave - do you really think he doesn't show professionalism to the manager?

    I don't particularly want to be a Xhaka cheerleader but I find the hate of this player tiresome. As matters stand he is an integral part of a team that is perfoming well.


    err, i'd say that making senseless tackles in dangerous areas of the pitch isn't just a lack of ability, it's also a lack of professional judgement

    storming off the pitch telling the fans to f*ck off and throwing the armband away is also a lack of professional judgement

    so he's not professional and how you can claim otherwise is beyond me

    as far as 'integrl part of the team' is concerned we do perfectly well wtihout him (which we have to do a lot as he gets sent off so regularly)

    there's not enough Xhaka hate IMO, he should be booed by every fan when he walks onto the pitch so he and Arteta get the message and he f*cks off out of our club

  9. #19
    Member IBK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac76 View Post
    err, i'd say that making senseless tackles in dangerous areas of the pitch isn't just a lack of ability, it's also a lack of professional judgement

    storming off the pitch telling the fans to f*ck off and throwing the armband away is also a lack of professional judgement

    so he's not professional and how you can claim otherwise is beyond me

    as far as 'integrl part of the team' is concerned we do perfectly well wtihout him (which we have to do a lot as he gets sent off so regularly)

    there's not enough Xhaka hate IMO, he should be booed by every fan when he walks onto the pitch so he and Arteta get the message and he f*cks off out of our club
    Your last line shows me that there is no point debating this further with you.
    Putting the laughter back into manslaughter

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    Member I am invisible's Avatar
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    At the time I think Arteta just had too many fires to put out and had inherited so many problem players that he just couldn’t afford to keep devoting so much time to Guendouzi and his nonsense.

    This issue of professionalism isn’t so much about whether players have a rush of blood to the head when they’re on the pitch - it’s about how they conduct themselves around their place of business. Who can be trusted to listen and get on with their jobs without needing constant supervision? And who is a constant distraction who takes way too much time and oxygen away from work you should be doing with the group? We all know the types - I’m sure we’ve all had them at our respective jobs.

    If you were just talking about one or two of the latter type in an otherwise professional group then I think we may have been able to work with them, but as it was I think we had so many of them that there was no choice but to break them up and move them on. They’d formed a clique and were feeding off each other’s shitty attitudes, and unfortunately we didn’t get to Guendouzi in time before he’d been become too absorbed into it. In that respect I feel a little sorry for him because I think, if he’d come into this current Arsenal, where the culture and attitude is much improved, then we might have been better able to work with him.

    (Incidentally I suspect this is an important secondary reason why we were keen to get Saliba away from the club - there were a couple of early warnings signs that he was gravitating towards that clique and I think think we wanted to keep him as far away from it as possible until it had been dismantled and the club was a better environment for him to be in.)
    Last edited by I am invisible; 05-03-2022 at 11:43 AM.

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