Tierney going to Newcastle

[Mac76]

Your preconceived notions of what a player should or shouldn't be really aren't relevant.

Zinchenko has been a fantastic signing and consistantly one of our best players.

rubbish, he often gives the ball away in situations where we've committed palyers forward, he dawdles around taking too many touches and wastes time, ignores our left winger when they're in space and slows down our play.

occasionally he forgets himself and lays in a useful direct pass for an assist or even scores a goal, but the rest of the time he's actually impeding us getting forward quickly and is one of the reasons we sometimes struggle to score IMO - he plays straight into the hands of teams defending deep against us

[Mac76]

I think it's tragic losing a player as good as Tierney - there's nothing wrong with him - he's rarely played this season and when he does he's made to play completely out of position

unfortunately we have a manager who wants to eliminate the left back position and we're just having to suck it up

[Marc Overmars]

I like Zinchenko but can’t really deny that he does lose the ball in dangerous areas a lot.

I appreciate his ability be an extra option in midfield but I feel like it’s a party trick that isn’t really suited to the majority of teams we’ll face as it isn’t going to break a deep block. Against the better teams who actually try to play football it’s useful but the fact this is our permanent option now seems a bit risky to me.

When Tierney came on against Everton he drifted into midfield too. Which leads me to believe this is something Arteta wants from all his left backs. Not quite sure there’s another left back out there who’s comfortable enough to play like that effectively.

I’ll just put this down to some weird Pep/Arteta hipster thinking.

[Mac76]

I like Zinchenko but can’t really deny that he does lose the ball in dangerous areas a lot.

I appreciate his ability be an extra option in midfield but I feel like it’s a party trick that isn’t really suited to the majority of teams we’ll face as it isn’t going to break a deep block. Against the better teams who actually try to play football it’s useful but the fact this is our permanent option now seems a bit risky to me.

When Tierney came on against Everton he drifted into midfield too. Which leads me to believe this is something Arteta wants from all his left backs. Not quite sure there’s another left back out there who’s comfortable enough to play like that effectively.

I’ll just put this down to some weird Pep/Arteta hipster thinking.

very well put, especially " it’s a party trick that isn’t really suited to the majority of teams we’ll face as it isn’t going to break a deep block"

it's totally that

[selassie]

I like Zinchenko but can’t really deny that he does lose the ball in dangerous areas a lot.

I appreciate his ability be an extra option in midfield but I feel like it’s a party trick that isn’t really suited to the majority of teams we’ll face as it isn’t going to break a deep block. Against the better teams who actually try to play football it’s useful but the fact this is our permanent option now seems a bit risky to me.

When Tierney came on against Everton he drifted into midfield too. Which leads me to believe this is something Arteta wants from all his left backs. Not quite sure there’s another left back out there who’s comfortable enough to play like that effectively.

I’ll just put this down to some weird Pep/Arteta hipster thinking.

Aye it's that, Pep/Arteta love at least one of their full backs to invert into Midfield. City seem to be doing it with that Rico Lewis kid who has just broken into their team.

[selassie]

He’s our worst player because we are effectively playing with three defenders at the back and what he gives us in midfield does not come close to compensating for it. If he wants to play him in midfield do so and drop Xhaka instead.

Plus even in midfield he gives the ball away far too much because he is a ditherer and is too indecisive. That we are top of the league is despite him not because of him.


It’s not a coincidence that he started the three games we’ve lost this season and was by far the worst player on the pitch. This is an example of Arteta being Galaxy brained and when we play high pressing teams that won’t give us the time or space to indulge having a player like Zinchenko on the pitch, we will suffer for it

He plays the inverted role because that's what Arteta wants, that does not make him our worst player, it's not like he is not following instruction and refusing to play where he is told to play. He plays this role by design.

Sure we are not top of the league solely based on him playing for us, just like he isn't responsible for the 3 defeats this season.

It is what it is, Arteta doesn't seem to fancy playing with 2 traditional full backs so if it's not Zinchenko it's going to be somebody else playing that inverted role at full back.

[Mac76]

the idea he's an improvement doesn't really add up when you look at the points return

Zinchenko has meaningfully contributed (minutes-on-the-pitch-wise) to all but 8 PL fixtures ths season.

in those 8 games, playing with either Tomi or Tierney in a more proper left-back position, we averaged 2.75 points

in the other 18 where Zin played most or all the game, we average 2.28 points

OK, there are other factors, e.g. the games he didn't meaningly feature in were also when we had Jesus, but still no-one can argue we get more points with him than without him

and MO's point about his ineffectiveness against low-block sides is important because it shows how Arteta won't consider playing a proper left back who can break forward and stretch the defence like, err, Tierney can be so good at - that would have been a good plan B against Newcastle or Brentford for example

if Tierney does go to Newcastle just watch him take teams (including us probably) apart next season while we have to watch Zinchenko dawdle and mess up every week

[HCZ_Reborn]

He plays the inverted role because that's what Arteta wants, that does not make him our worst player, it's not like he is not following instruction and refusing to play where he is told to play. He plays this role by design.

Sure we are not top of the league solely based on him playing for us, just like he isn't responsible for the 3 defeats this season.

It is what it is, Arteta doesn't seem to fancy playing with 2 traditional full backs so if it's not Zinchenko it's going to be somebody else playing that inverted role at full back.

But that’s not it is it, he’s not only not very good at being a left back because he’s playing in the inverted position, he doesn’t seem to even understand what he needs to do when reverting to the left back role, he’s too passive at stopping crosses when he’s back in that role, gets turned too easily by wingers (this is more than just a case of being caught out of position)

If you’re arguing that Arteta is a barrier to our winning the title, you’ll get no argument from me. Like with Zinchenko we are where we are despite Arteta not because of him, a manager that doesn’t know how to rotate, is slow to drop poor performing players and in my opinion is a very poor man manager.

But Zinchenko is like one of those IPA’s in a colourful can that hipsters won’t admit they don’t like

[selassie]

But that’s not it is it, he’s not only not very good at being a left back because he’s playing in the inverted position, he doesn’t seem to even understand what he needs to do when reverting to the left back role, he’s too passive at stopping crosses when he’s back in that role, gets turned too easily by wingers (this is more than just a case of being caught out of position)

If you’re arguing that Arteta is a barrier to our winning the title, you’ll get no argument from me. Like with Zinchenko we are where we are despite Arteta not because of him, a manager that doesn’t know how to rotate, is slow to drop poor performing players and in my opinion is a very poor man manager.

But Zinchenko is like one of those IPA’s in a colourful can that hipsters won’t admit they don’t like

I don't see him as a big a issue as you do, in fact I don't see him as an issue at all TBH. I see him as a sum of parts that has contributed to the team being top of the table and chasing their first title in more or less 20 years.

If your argument is that he is a lousy full back and weakens the team both defensively and offensively then that's your opinion, I don't agree with it and you won't get me agreeing with it either. I haven't got time to go back and forth over something that I personally don't see is an issue in the team.

I am not arguing anything about Arteta being a barrier to us winning the title, not even sure what that's got to do with it, that's unless you think Zinchenko will solely cost us the title?

[selassie]

the idea he's an improvement doesn't really add up when you look at the points return

Zinchenko has meaningfully contributed (minutes-on-the-pitch-wise) to all but 8 PL fixtures ths season.

in those 8 games, playing with either Tomi or Tierney in a more proper left-back position, we averaged 2.75 points

in the other 18 where Zin played most or all the game, we average 2.28 points

OK, there are other factors, e.g. the games he didn't meaningly feature in were also when we had Jesus, but still no-one can argue we get more points with him than without him

and MO's point about his ineffectiveness against low-block sides is important because it shows how Arteta won't consider playing a proper left back who can break forward and stretch the defence like, err, Tierney can be so good at - that would have been a good plan B against Newcastle or Brentford for example

if Tierney does go to Newcastle just watch him take teams (including us probably) apart next season while we have to watch Zinchenko dawdle and mess up every week

You need to dig a bit deeper in your stats regarding the points return, your argument pretty much fall aparts in the fact that Zinchenko is always picked for the big games whereas Tomi or Tierney are mostly utility / squad players now so most likely play in the lesser games.

The team in general has not looked as comfortable against low-block sides since Jesus has been out, Zinchenko is not the only one struggling against low-block sides.

Tierney is a decent full back but take teams apart? When has he even ever done that for us? He's not that good!