Arsenal vs Chelsea Player Ratings and Match Reaction

[HCZ_Reborn]

Having Neymar, Mbappe and Messi in your squad doesn’t mean you have the best team it means you have an expensive forward line

They don’t have any particular quality in midfield. And they dominate in the French league anyway


The two strongest teams in Europe by squad are Manchester City and Bayern Munich. Bayern have dominated the Bundesliga for years not because they’ve always had the best coach but because they have the strongest team.


A good coach can make s difference and a bad coach can be a drag factor of course. I’ve already accepted that it’s possible for a good coach to get players who shouldn’t be in the top 4 in there with Eddie Howe, but this is more of an outlier than the best teams winning things.

The argument I’ve made this season is that if Guardiola was coaching Arsenal we’d be where we are now, and if Arteta was coaching city they would be where they are now. Guardiola isn’t a tactical genius, he’s capable of the same mistakes and over reliance on one way of playing that Arteta is.

[Mac76]

The argument I’ve made this season is that if Guardiola was coaching Arsenal we’d be where we are now, and if Arteta was coaching city they would be where they are now. Guardiola isn’t a tactical genius, he’s capable of the same mistakes and over reliance on one way of playing that Arteta is.

Rubbish, Guardiola understands how to rotate, how to set your team up for a particular opposition and how to use subs

Arteta can't - or won't - do any of those things

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Having Neymar, Mbappe and Messi in your squad doesn’t mean you have the best team it means you have an expensive forward line

They don’t have any particular quality in midfield. And they dominate in the French league anyway


The two strongest teams in Europe by squad are Manchester City and Bayern Munich. Bayern have dominated the Bundesliga for years not because they’ve always had the best coach but because they have the strongest team.


A good coach can make s difference and a bad coach can be a drag factor of course. I’ve already accepted that it’s possible for a good coach to get players who shouldn’t be in the top 4 in there with Eddie Howe, but this is more of an outlier than the best teams winning things.

The argument I’ve made this season is that if Guardiola was coaching Arsenal we’d be where we are now, and if Arteta was coaching city they would be where they are now. Guardiola isn’t a tactical genius, he’s capable of the same mistakes and over reliance on one way of playing that Arteta is.

I'm not sure you watch PSG from the assertions you keep making about them, because quite often its the supporting acts that catch the eye, and people have recognised it, thats why players like Hakimi and Donnaruma ( who did not even make the WC) have both gotten into the FIFA pro 11(voted by 65k professionals evey year) and Neymar hasn't. In the last 2 years, no team has been represented more than PSG in that lineup ....but hey, lets not take awards, achievements and accolades for it, lets go with our opinions!

Anyway lets get back to these shores. You say Pep isn't a tactical genius (mootable) and over relies on sticking to the same system like Arteta...but surely their must be evidence to show that the latter is actually true?

We've played Citeh 3 times this year, twice in quick succession and recently. We setup the same way against City in both games in the league, though it could be argued he slightly tweaked it in our first meeting in the FA cup where he pulled a surprise and started Tierney instead of Zin (we all know how that affects our shape). Besides that, it's been like for like in all 3 games with pretty much the same players and his signature shape.

However Citeh did not use the same shape against us in any of the 3 games we played them. If you don't believe me please read it on the web as its just a search button away.

The closest Pep came to keeping his signature shape was in the first game, that was the only game he started and played his preferred 3 at the back. Funnily that was the only game on paper we stayed competitive (1-0 ), despite fielding a weakened side

Now, here are some links to show you how Pep specifically altered his shape to face us in the subsequent 2 games.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...o-beat-arsenal

https://www.sportbible.com/football/...63048-20230426

https://www.skysports.com/football/n...-man-citys-way

If you still don't believe he altered his team to face us, just look at the sides he played immediately after 2 league games (Forest and Fulham), he immediately reverts to type (and the usual personnel) plays his favoured 3-2-4-1 ( or 3-2-5 if you prefer).

Logically anyone would think its the guy with the second best squad (according to you anyway) that would be adapting to play the head honcho, but the overwhelming evidence shows its been the other way round.

And in case you are wondering why Arteta behaves this way, it seems he's of the same school of thought as you, as he clearly doesn't believe that changing tactics within a game does much, he prefers to put the onus on the players. I can't find it now, but there is a direct quote where he says he knew Citeh was going to try something different but he didn't see the need to change things around or respond as he just has to "trust in the players". A pathetic kop out IMO.

I'll edit my post once I find the quote

So in short, no, I don't believe the two managers are the same (or similar) and would achieve the same results if switched around. If I am being honest, it could go either way for anyone of them.....but if you've seen my post history, you'll know I prefer managers who aren't rigid and immediately respond to changes within a match. My preference.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm not sure you watch PSG from the assertions you keep making about them, because quite often its the supporting acts that catch the eye, and people have recognised it, thats why players like Hakimi and Donnaruma ( who did not even make the WC) have both gotten into the FIFA pro 11(voted by 65k professionals evey year) and Neymar hasn't. In the last 2 years, no team has been represented more than PSG in that lineup ....but hey, lets not take awards, achievements and accolades for it, lets go with our opinions!

Anyway lets get back to these shores. You say Pep isn't a tactical genius (mootable) and over relies on sticking to the same system like Arteta...but surely their must be evidence to show that the latter is actually true?

We've played Citeh 3 times this year, twice in quick succession and recently. We setup the same way against City in both games in the league, though it could be argued he slightly tweaked it in our first meeting in the FA cup where he pulled a surprise and started Tierney instead of Zin (we all know how that affects our shape). Besides that, it's been like for like in all 3 games with pretty much the same players and his signature shape.

However Citeh did not use the same shape against us in any of the 3 games we played them. If you don't believe me please read it on the web as its just a search button away.

The closest Pep came to keeping his signature shape was in the first game, that was the only game he started and played his preferred 3 at the back. Funnily that was the only game on paper we stayed competitive (1-0 ), despite fielding a weakened side

Now, here are some links to show you how Pep specifically altered his shape to face us in the subsequent 2 games.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...o-beat-arsenal

https://www.sportbible.com/football/...63048-20230426

https://www.skysports.com/football/n...-man-citys-way

If you still don't believe he altered his team to face us, just look at the sides he played immediately after 2 league games (Forest and Fulham), he immediately reverts to type (and the usual personnel) plays his favoured 3-2-4-1 ( or 3-2-5 if you prefer).

Logically anyone would think its the guy with the second best squad (according to you anyway) that would be adapting to play the head honcho, but the overwhelming evidence shows its been the other way round.

And in case you are wondering why Arteta behaves this way, it seems he's of the same school of thought as you, as he clearly doesn't believe that changing tactics within a game does much, he prefers to put the onus on the players. I can't find it now, but there is a direct quote where he says he knew Citeh was going to try something different but he didn't see the need to change things around or respond as he just has to "trust in the players". A pathetic kop out IMO.

I'll edit my post once I find the quote

So in short, no, I don't believe the two managers are the same (or similar) and would achieve the same results if switched around. If I am being honest, it could go either way for anyone of them.....but if you've seen my post history, you'll know I prefer managers who aren't rigid and immediately respond to changes within a match. My preference.

No I just happen to disagree that PSG have anywhere near the strongest team in Europe, the two teams I’ve mentioned Man City and Bayern Munich are far stronger. A team is also far more about balance and they have a better balance team when Unai coached them…now they’ve sacrificed that to have Neymar and Messi up front.

Yes City changed it up when they played us, but again that’s far more about their ability to rotate given the depth in their squad.

That’s not the reason they beat us. The reason they beat us is that for all our strengths we don’t deal well with intense pressing, even Partey who is lauded for his ability to play through the press can’t deal with it from players of the quality of City. Until we sufficiently improve our central midfield to combat this, all the tactical cleverness you think makes every bit of difference in games…won’t make a sod of difference.

I don’t disagree that being flexible is preferable to being inflexible, but where we differ is on the margin of difference it makes when you have the strongest squad in Europe (by a mile, it’s not even close).

I think you seem to be getting the impression that im defending Arteta, im not…I can’t stand the guy….no personality, totally unlikable…all the warmth of a corpse and yes galaxy brained and too sure of his own genius and plays favourites too often.

I think he’s been incredibly lucky to have players like Saka, Odegaard, Martinelli all come good at the same time. Whilst we can say Odegaard is his signing…I don’t really credit him with their development. I think they came good inspite of him because they are naturally talented players.


Having a good coach if you’re a mega wealthy team gives you the advantage because unlike with Chelsea of late you won’t spend hundreds of millions on players not up to snuff, Guardiola obviously knows the difference between a good player and a shit one….and he’s built a team with balance and quality. But you simply cannot produce that quality if the tools at your disposal are limited.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

No I just happen to disagree that PSG have anywhere near the strongest team in Europe, the two teams I’ve mentioned Man City and Bayern Munich are far stronger. A team is also far more about balance and they have a better balance team when Unai coached them…now they’ve sacrificed that to have Neymar and Messi up front.

Yes City changed it up when they played us, but again that’s far more about their ability to rotate given the depth in their squad.

That’s not the reason they beat us. The reason they beat us is that for all our strengths we don’t deal well with intense pressing, even Partey who is lauded for his ability to play through the press can’t deal with it from players of the quality of City. Until we sufficiently improve our central midfield to combat this, all the tactical cleverness you think makes every bit of difference in games…won’t make a sod of difference.

I don’t disagree that being flexible is preferable to being inflexible, but where we differ is on the margin of difference it makes when you have the strongest squad in Europe (by a mile, it’s not even close).

I think you seem to be getting the impression that im defending Arteta, im not…I can’t stand the guy….no personality, totally unlikable…all the warmth of a corpse and yes galaxy brained and too sure of his own genius and plays favourites too often.

I think he’s been incredibly lucky to have players like Saka, Odegaard, Martinelli all come good at the same time. Whilst we can say Odegaard is his signing…I don’t really credit him with their development. I think they came good inspite of him because they are naturally talented players.


Having a good coach if you’re a mega wealthy team gives you the advantage because unlike with Chelsea of late you won’t spend hundreds of millions on players not up to snuff, Guardiola obviously knows the difference between a good player and a shit one….and he’s built a team with balance and quality. But you simply cannot produce that quality if the tools at your disposal are limited.

Fair enough. Not much I can debate with here as its clear we see things differently, which means we could probably be seeing the same thing but insisting its a certain way (eg. is the glass half full or half empty).

A bit like what I posted earlier on how to view the season, a success or failure. I think whatever helps you to healthily deal with whatever challenge you have (Citeh's dominance in this case) is probably the best way to go.

Lets see what we do against Newcastle, seeing as the Citeh have already wrapped it up against Leeds in the 1st half as usual.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Fair enough. Not much I can debate with here as its clear we see things differently, which means we could probably be seeing the same thing but insisting its a certain way (eg. is the glass half full or half empty).

A bit like what I posted earlier on how to view the season, a success or failure. I think whatever helps you to healthily deal with whatever challenge you have (Citeh's dominance in this case) is probably the best way to go.

Lets see what we do against Newcastle, seeing as the Citeh have already wrapped it up against Leeds in the 1st half as usual.

Yep equally I don’t see this impasse being broken