Originally Posted by Mac76
Well i think your resorting to abuse shows which if us is looking at this more calmly
Just a few things before i really do call it a day on this:
1. to me I think we are looking at this man differently - you are buying his story about being overcome with emotion, forgetting his role and responsibilities entirely and kissing the woman
I don't buy it, sorry, I think it was more cynical than that, or at the very least the act of someone who is out-of-step wiht what's acceptable and is setting a very unfortunate example. For the record I do think if his reaction afterwards had been different maybe there could have been a way through, but everything he did played into the perception that he's not fit to hold his job
2. You just can't see how something like this can feed into everyday society - you can't get past the fact that it was unique because it was a ceremony in front of millions of people and because other incidents aren't the same but actually there is a parallel, people take their cues from what they see 'important' people do in public. You only have to look at how antisocial and racist behaviour grew during the EU referendum - it became ok to be nasty to immigrants because of the Leave campaign's messaging and, crucially, the fact that it wasn't sanctioned in any way
3. lastly i get really bored of how some people can only see people in stereotypes, e.g. anyone who expresses a particular view on something is immediately put into the 'snowflake/lefty/liberal' box, making it easier to dismiss their views as being guided by some kind of rigid ideological standpoint. People on here get me very wrong and I think some of my views on things would genuinely surprise you tbh, but either way you should tackle an argument on its merits not dismiss it because you think it ticks a particular box
No I’m not being insulting/abusive I’m pointing out that you’re being patronising. Because I don’t agree with you doesn’t come down to a lack of understanding. I’m well aware that certain things influence wider behaviours, our conversations give me the impression that I understand human nature better than you. Because I think your opinions on human nature are clouded by your more left leaning worldview (I would have said liberal…but I think so called liberals are anything but….it’s why I’ve divorced myself from the liberal left because of the closed mindedness, and the sense of certainty to the point where they are wilfully blind and deaf to what’s going on in their own grouping).
I’ve explained to you why I don’t think this incident could or would have inspired behaviour in others. I also think there’s a tendency to fall back on propter hoc, ergo hoc assumptions. It’s not that I can’t see or can’t comprehend it’s that I’m not convinced….invoking Brexit is comparing apples to bowling balls. And frankly as someone who voted Remain, I’ve found people who voted the same way as me far more intolerant than any leave voter….because they didn’t like their comfortable world view being challenged. I didn’t like it either, but I at least had the sense to actually consider “you know what I might be wrong, it might be worth considering how people who think differently from me feel”. But the misnomer Liberals won’t do that, refuse to be taken from their perch of smug certainty and ultimately become just as extreme and pious in their attitude as the people they call far right flag shaggers.
But ultimately it comes down to opinion. I find your opinion that Rubiales had poor motives absurd, I think if he’d behaved like this around women before we’d know about it and you sure as shit don’t make your debut at it then. You would build your way up to it….whether you’re a thief, a sex offender or a murderer…you don’t start out big…that’s not how people work on the whole
You think in terms of if we let him go unpunished other people will start doing it? As if somehow there are people waiting for the green light to become predatory. The post EU referendum racists weren’t first time racists nor first time thugs it’s just something that actually was being paid attention to when they referenced Brexit before being a racist cunt.
And please don’t waste my time trying to come back with some version of proving Godwin’s law because I understand far more about that era of history I suspect than you do as well.
But this is boring me now, so I’d prefer to accept the stalemate. I’m not going to convince you that Rubiales didn’t plan to behave the way he did and you’re not going to convince me that allowing him to apologise for his behaviour would create an epidemic of similar incidents….and maybe as I’ve explained above this is one of those times where you might profit from reflecting on why people might disagree with a view you hold beyond (they just don’t get it).
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