What is the long term ambitionof our club????

[notwist]

To make money. From you.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Right, so we get a bright shiny new stadium. We're told it is to ensure the long term stability of Arsenal FC. We're told we no have plenty of money available. We're told we're after super quality.

Yet. We sell our two best (ish) players. We scrimp and save every penny we can in the transfers we have made, ditch a load of the youth project players (Vela, Bender, Traore, Denilson etc etc etc) and bring in more experience, but some players on the wane....

What excatly is the long term plan? We were building for the future. Now we're replacing the bricks that fell out. There are some bricks being laid which have no foundation, and some bricks which seem to be building something entirely different.

Far from careful planning, and looking to a bright future we were all promised before the stadium, we now have a owner content on raping the club, a manager who is more concerned with keeping a staus quo rather than pushing us on, and a board who seem spineless and completely out of touch with its fans.

We just seem to be trying to tread water, but the current is actually pulling us under a bit.

This whole thing is a mess. I've no doubt that we'll carry on keeping up with the top four (there or thereabouts) but this club is worth more than that. Some of the shackles need to come off, because we don't look ambitious. We look lost and hanging on to the coat-tails of champions league football.

Where the fuck is this club going??

To Arsenal fans it is but to others maybe not so much, what give us the define right to be a top 4 team, we were not before Wenger came but people still loved Arsenal for what we were.

IMO the club is a mess from top to bottom and untill all are singing from the same sheet(players, fans and board) Things will only get worse. We have a board that lies to us, a Manager who protects them and players who should not be wearing the shirt.

I agree the aim is not to win things but to get in the CL and make a profit. I think we will see this year where we are and the ambitions of all. Will Stan show us him ambition at last.

Right now the only way we be sucnessful as the top 3 is if we were taken over by a suga daddy.

[gunsofashburtongrove]

The stadium was supposed to make us bigger and in long term give us more money. Everything fits into the plan for me getting Wenger,investing in academy and youth and transitioning to a youth in first team policy. How ever since we needed $ up front some of our early deals were piss poor. The bigger money options are not structured favorably and we were not in a position to bargain. Additionally there are few events that we did not plan for
1. The recession which caused us a set back in not being able to sell flats.
2. Chelsea and Shitty with Dollars
& i predict
3. Hoping that FFP rules will bail us out

The feeling that i get is that the intention was good and audacious, but in execution we were/are not very smart, are very old fashioned and very slow. Like marketing in Asia is something we should have done in 04 or 05 when we were at the peak. The debt payment strategy is very conservative and slow. The clubs we are competing with like Manu, Madrid and Barca have extremley agressive management styles we will loose out if we don't change.

In all the Stadium was a great idea, but it was the bare minimum, there are other avenues to generate revenues where we are lacking. BTW the debt we have now is mostly low interest bonds that mature after 20 years. Which means we cant pay off before 20 years.

[Alan B'stard]

The debt (bonds) we have is £177million at 5.142% fixed until 2029,
plus £50 million at 3m libor+0.22 till 2013 and then rising to 3m libor+0.55.

This debt has a charge over our gate receipts. It is not low interest and it is impossible to pay it off early without incurring hefty early exit penalties. Best we can do is acccumulate cash in a deposit account, net these totals argue that our 'net debt' has been reduced. However if you think about it, that bank account isnt going to earn anything like the interest we are obliged to pay out above.

[IBK]

The debt (bonds) we have is £177million at 5.142% fixed until 2029,
plus £50 million at 3m libor+0.22 till 2013 and then rising to 3m libor+0.55.

This debt has a charge over our gate receipts. It is not low interest and it is impossible to pay it off early without incurring hefty early exit penalties. Best we can do is acccumulate cash in a deposit account, net these totals argue that our 'net debt' has been reduced. However if you think about it, that bank account isnt going to earn anything like the interest we are obliged to pay out above.

[LDG]

The debt (bonds) we have is £177million at 5.142% fixed until 2029,
plus £50 million at 3m libor+0.22 till 2013 and then rising to 3m libor+0.55.

This debt has a charge over our gate receipts. It is not low interest and it is impossible to pay it off early without incurring hefty early exit penalties. Best we can do is acccumulate cash in a deposit account, net these totals argue that our 'net debt' has been reduced. However if you think about it, that bank account isnt going to earn anything like the interest we are obliged to pay out above.

So basically until our cash deposit account reaches £227mil (for arguments sake) we're stuck.

[Alan B'stard]

So basically until our cash deposit account reaches £227mil (for arguments sake) we're stuck.

Its worse than that, jim.

Basically You can only kill off this debt by finding out who AFC sold these bonds too, and tempting them into selling them back to the club.
ie: Even if we have 227mill in the bank, that will be earning crap all interest, which we have to pay tax on too.
we will still be paying out more than that in interest each year.

An aside - I remember reading* that Usmanov has been a busy bastard buying up a lot of these bonds on the open market. He then went to the board and offered to tear them up, if they replaced them with new voting shares instead (a 'debt for equity' swap, if you will).
Obviously this means making room in the boardroom for him, and 'diluting' the stakes of the rest of the shareholders.

The PHW/Fiszman/Kronke axis told him to do one. I infer that they would rather run it for themselves as a moneyspinner than let it turn into a rich man's plaything which bankrolls trophies.

To be honest though, neither prospect corresponds to what we think of as traditional football club. Sadly, that vision seems to be incompatible with the game at the highest level nowadays.

* ref: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...nals-debt.html

[Niall_Quinn]

The debt (bonds) we have is £177million at 5.142% fixed until 2029,
plus £50 million at 3m libor+0.22 till 2013 and then rising to 3m libor+0.55.

This debt has a charge over our gate receipts. It is not low interest and it is impossible to pay it off early without incurring hefty early exit penalties. Best we can do is acccumulate cash in a deposit account, net these totals argue that our 'net debt' has been reduced. However if you think about it, that bank account isnt going to earn anything like the interest we are obliged to pay out above.

A classic demonstration of why all bankers should be burned. I'm serious, round up the cunts and throw them on a bonfire. Greedy, greedy, eternally greedy bastards. Can you imagine how much these stinking money changers are thieving out of the club over the years? And then add that to shareholder payoffs. A payoff for what? Running the club into a ditch? The lion's share of everything generated is sucked out like the club is suspended in a vacuum. The money changers have created their "loan" out of thin air at zero risk and with hyper usury rates of return (as usual) and the shareholders have put fuck all in and are sucking like fucking leeches. And who owns the stadium when the bloated leeches are finally sated? The fans? Nope, some American bloke. So what, exactly, is in it for the fans?

$amir Na$ri - that's what. Cahsley Cole and his swerving Bentley. Nick, I couldn't score a fucking goal to save my life but thanks for the £52k a week, Bendtner. 8-2 humiliation at Old Trafford?

But look on the bright side, we did get a 29 year old injury victim at the end of his career and the loan of a player nobody else wants. And fine, let's hope they can at least produce some entertainment, at least let's have some of that.

When you look at the bigger picture it makes you wonder where the football fits in any more.

[Niall_Quinn]

which we have to pay tax on too

LOL, I forgot the mother of all leeches. That giant sucking thing called government.

[LDG]

A classic demonstration of why all bankers should be burned. I'm serious, round up the cunts and throw them on a bonfire. Greedy, greedy, eternally greedy bastards. Can you imagine how much these stinking money changers are thieving out of the club over the years? And then add that to shareholder payoffs. A payoff for what? Running the club into a ditch? The lion's share of everything generated is sucked out like the club is suspended in a vacuum. The money changers have created their "loan" out of thin air at zero risk and with hyper usury rates of return (as usual) and the shareholders have put fuck all in and are sucking like fucking leeches. And who owns the stadium when the bloated leeches are finally sated? The fans? Nope, some American bloke. So what, exactly, is in it for the fans?

$amir Na$ri - that's what. Cahsley Cole and his swerving Bentley. Nick, I couldn't score a fucking goal to save my life but thanks for the £52k a week, Bendtner. 8-2 humiliation at Old Trafford?

But look on the bright side, we did get a 29 year old injury victim at the end of his career and the loan of a player nobody else wants. And fine, let's hope they can at least produce some entertainment, at least let's have some of that.

When you look at the bigger picture it makes you wonder where the football fits in any more.