Has Wenger really benefitted AFC since 2006?

[Cripps_orig]

No

His personal crusade of going against the money men with the doomed youth project made us in to a laughing stock and at any other club, he'd have been sacked but the board are just as bad as him

[Xhaka Can’t]

Im against the money men. Anyone in their right mind would be too. Some Clubs have simply been reduced to being penis extensions of people with obscene amounts of money in the main obtained from criminality and through being part of an inner sanctum that subjugate their fellow citizens and cream off the profits of an entire country's mineral rights and resources.


Arsene made a huge mistake offering big contracts to unproven talent and I blame him for that. But if Wenger was stupid enough to offer the likes of The lesbian 200k a week, City would just offer him 300k a week and they'd do that with all the other great players they have because while money is all important along with ego to their owners, the obscene amounts we are talking about are piffiling to the cunts that own them.


Mind you, if we had offered the lesbian £200k per week, they'd only have to offer her 201k and shed be off like a ten dollar whore.

[Alan B'stard]

In the wake of the transfer season, I've been giving Wenger's net value to the club some serious thought.

The natural assumption is that he has been great news - at least in terms of the stadium project - because he has kept us in the CL and done great business in the transfer market - and these are difficult achievements to deny.

But scratch deeper, and some question marks emerge. Firstly, despite the new stadium AFC is and has remained a rich club. It has a big fan base, and our gate receipts are the 3rd highest in the world (after RM and Manure). Sure some of that is committed to the stadium debt, but nevertheless we have a relatively big income, that has been richly augmented by our net transfer profits. But what has the manager done with this money? He has spent it on paying inflated prices to bring very young players to the club, and on rewarding young, untested or simply shite players with far higher wages than they would earn elsewhere. Vela; Bendtner; Denilson; Traore; Squillachi; Almunia; Djourou; Diaby - hell even Song; Walcott; and Arshavin (while they don't fit into this category) could be regarded as being overpaid in terms of what they have delivered consistently since they joined the club. And it has ultimately been for nothing.

The fact that project youth has been consigned to the dustbin, and the difficulty we are having shifting the dross demonstrates the folly of rewarding many of the players that we have had over the last 5 years - as does the fact that we haven't exactly broken the bank to bring in some experience to balance the talent that we do have.

Second, I think we have to question the effect that the manager's miscalculations have had on our team. The past 5 years have been characterised most of all by the (relatively few) players who can be termed Weger successes - Flamini; Hleb; Adebayor; Nasri - looking elsewhere as soon as they have shown some form, and in Fabregas's case having been distracted for the past 2 years. Whether it is Wenger's management style; his damaging adherence to a ridgid wage structure or his inflexible approach to the football side of things - the result has been constant disruption and lack of assimilation and progress. In a sense the benefits of his successful developments have been countered by his failure to prevent constant seepage of talent.

And in terms of players' development. I'm not sure whether the manager fully deserves his reputation for polishing rough diamonds. He has had noteable successes with the players I have mentioned, but for all those, there seems to me to be a litany of wasted talent. I would put the likes of Denilson (who showed massive promise at one point); Lansbury; Bendtner; Senderos; Arshavin; Djourou; Clichy; Diaby; Eduardo; Walcott - even Gallas in this category - players who for one reason or another (but mainly because of lack of experience alongside them, or because of the way the team is set up or being played out of position) could IMO have been greater successes than they have been.

I know that this is not wholly the manager's fault and that the players themselves have to shoulder some blame - but there are still question marks for me.

And finally I have to wonder whether our manager has also been a good thing for the club in terms of his absolute dominance. While not his fault - he has allowed the club to be over-conservative and non-progressive. His antipathy to pre season publicity tours has undoubtedly contributed to the club's failure to capitalise marketing-wise on the invincibles' legacy, and the strong impression is that he has fostered loyalty to himself, rather than to the club's proud traditions (in the way George Graham did, for example).

Look, its easy to be over-critical in hindsight, and on balance I still feel that Wenger has benefitted the club (in terms of its stability if not success) over the period. But I wonder if there has been recently much basis for assuming that 'Arsene knows'.

Thoughts?

yes, but only by using his nearly misses and previous record to keep fans from rioting and keeping bums on seats.
he has done exceptionally well to keep things steady given the resources, and the club have been able to break the back of the debt despite the credit crunch screwing up their financial projections.

that goodwill and capital is now well an trul spent, and wenger has no more room for manouever

[IBK]

yes, but only by using his nearly misses and previous record to keep fans from rioting and keeping bums on seats.
he has done exceptionally well to keep things steady given the resources, and the club have been able to break the back of the debt despite the credit crunch screwing up their financial projections.

that goodwill and capital is now well an trul spent, and wenger has no more room for manouever

Recently we always seem to say that the coming season is crunch time for Wenger, but now it really is.

[IBK]

Also - I read an article in the Independent today that said that last season AW crossed the line from innovation to narcissism. I would love to think that the chastening effect of bombing out last season; losing his best 'project players and being humiliated at old Trafford makes him realise that he needs input from others (players; directors; a proper No. 2). I'm not holding my breath, but remember that last season he came back from being whipped by Manure, the Chavs and Barca in 2009/10 - and even changed his approach. Our new signings represent a bit of humble pie. I hope Wenger isn't full yet...

[Cripps_orig]

I hope Wenger isn't full yet...

Hes full of shit

Does that count?

[selassie]

In the wake of the transfer season, I've been giving Wenger's net value to the club some serious thought.

The natural assumption is that he has been great news - at least in terms of the stadium project - because he has kept us in the CL and done great business in the transfer market - and these are difficult achievements to deny.

But scratch deeper, and some question marks emerge. Firstly, despite the new stadium AFC is and has remained a rich club. It has a big fan base, and our gate receipts are the 3rd highest in the world (after RM and Manure). Sure some of that is committed to the stadium debt, but nevertheless we have a relatively big income, that has been richly augmented by our net transfer profits. But what has the manager done with this money? He has spent it on paying inflated prices to bring very young players to the club, and on rewarding young, untested or simply shite players with far higher wages than they would earn elsewhere. Vela; Bendtner; Denilson; Traore; Squillachi; Almunia; Djourou; Diaby - hell even Song; Walcott; and Arshavin (while they don't fit into this category) could be regarded as being overpaid in terms of what they have delivered consistently since they joined the club. And it has ultimately been for nothing.

The fact that project youth has been consigned to the dustbin, and the difficulty we are having shifting the dross demonstrates the folly of rewarding many of the players that we have had over the last 5 years - as does the fact that we haven't exactly broken the bank to bring in some experience to balance the talent that we do have.

Second, I think we have to question the effect that the manager's miscalculations have had on our team. The past 5 years have been characterised most of all by the (relatively few) players who can be termed Weger successes - Flamini; Hleb; Adebayor; Nasri - looking elsewhere as soon as they have shown some form, and in Fabregas's case having been distracted for the past 2 years. Whether it is Wenger's management style; his damaging adherence to a ridgid wage structure or his inflexible approach to the football side of things - the result has been constant disruption and lack of assimilation and progress. In a sense the benefits of his successful developments have been countered by his failure to prevent constant seepage of talent.

And in terms of players' development. I'm not sure whether the manager fully deserves his reputation for polishing rough diamonds. He has had noteable successes with the players I have mentioned, but for all those, there seems to me to be a litany of wasted talent. I would put the likes of Denilson (who showed massive promise at one point); Lansbury; Bendtner; Senderos; Arshavin; Djourou; Clichy; Diaby; Eduardo; Walcott - even Gallas in this category - players who for one reason or another (but mainly because of lack of experience alongside them, or because of the way the team is set up or being played out of position) could IMO have been greater successes than they have been.

I know that this is not wholly the manager's fault and that the players themselves have to shoulder some blame - but there are still question marks for me.

And finally I have to wonder whether our manager has also been a good thing for the club in terms of his absolute dominance. While not his fault - he has allowed the club to be over-conservative and non-progressive. His antipathy to pre season publicity tours has undoubtedly contributed to the club's failure to capitalise marketing-wise on the invincibles' legacy, and the strong impression is that he has fostered loyalty to himself, rather than to the club's proud traditions (in the way George Graham did, for example).

Look, its easy to be over-critical in hindsight, and on balance I still feel that Wenger has benefitted the club (in terms of its stability if not success) over the period. But I wonder if there has been recently much basis for assuming that 'Arsene knows'.

Thoughts?

Great thread.

I think Wenger has benefitted the club's stability in terms of achieving the goal of retaining CL football but from a Technical point of view with the squad/development of players he's done an average to poor job.

I feel whilst he can be commended for sticking to his policy of developing players he has to the detriment of the team continued in vein to develop players who should have been shown the door quite some time ago, I do not feel he has been pragmatic enough in this instance.

Funnily enough I actually think the squad of 07/08 was one of the best squads he has assembled, it had a good mix of youth & experience. I actually feel that if he would have managed to successfully retain the core of that squad we would have gone on to win major trophies. For me, the major issues with his squad building and penchant for developing youth really stood out after the season of 07/08. Instead of a smooth transistion post 07/08, we endured a turbulent season waiting for Projects like Denilson, Diaby & Song to develop into top quality PL/CL performers.

What we're currently seeing is a cull of the first batch of "youth projects", the likes of Senderos (gone), Eboue (gone), Clichy (gone), Denilson (loan, will probably go), Bendtner (loan, will probably go). Add the likes of Traore (gone), Vela (who seems to have stagnated) & you actually have a big list of players who were either purchased or developed who have failed.

Where I think Wenger got it wrong was the timing of the cull, many of these players should have been shown the door a few years ago and not given bumper contracts.

Financial constraints aside, I do believe a lot of these decisions have been purely of Wenger's making and he unlike most managers tends to give players quite a long time to flourish, take the Almunia situation as a case in point.

Has Wenger really benefitted AFC since 2006, yes and no!

[Flavs]

In the wake of the transfer season, I've been giving Wenger's net value to the club some serious thought.

The natural assumption is that he has been great news - at least in terms of the stadium project - because he has kept us in the CL and done great business in the transfer market - and these are difficult achievements to deny.

But scratch deeper, and some question marks emerge. Firstly, despite the new stadium AFC is and has remained a rich club. It has a big fan base, and our gate receipts are the 3rd highest in the world (after RM and Manure). Sure some of that is committed to the stadium debt, but nevertheless we have a relatively big income, that has been richly augmented by our net transfer profits. But what has the manager done with this money? He has spent it on paying inflated prices to bring very young players to the club, and on rewarding young, untested or simply shite players with far higher wages than they would earn elsewhere. Vela; Bendtner; Denilson; Traore; Squillachi; Almunia; Djourou; Diaby - hell even Song; Walcott; and Arshavin (while they don't fit into this category) could be regarded as being overpaid in terms of what they have delivered consistently since they joined the club. And it has ultimately been for nothing.

The fact that project youth has been consigned to the dustbin, and the difficulty we are having shifting the dross demonstrates the folly of rewarding many of the players that we have had over the last 5 years - as does the fact that we haven't exactly broken the bank to bring in some experience to balance the talent that we do have.

Second, I think we have to question the effect that the manager's miscalculations have had on our team. The past 5 years have been characterised most of all by the (relatively few) players who can be termed Weger successes - Flamini; Hleb; Adebayor; Nasri - looking elsewhere as soon as they have shown some form, and in Fabregas's case having been distracted for the past 2 years. Whether it is Wenger's management style; his damaging adherence to a ridgid wage structure or his inflexible approach to the football side of things - the result has been constant disruption and lack of assimilation and progress. In a sense the benefits of his successful developments have been countered by his failure to prevent constant seepage of talent.

And in terms of players' development. I'm not sure whether the manager fully deserves his reputation for polishing rough diamonds. He has had noteable successes with the players I have mentioned, but for all those, there seems to me to be a litany of wasted talent. I would put the likes of Denilson (who showed massive promise at one point); Lansbury; Bendtner; Senderos; Arshavin; Djourou; Clichy; Diaby; Eduardo; Walcott - even Gallas in this category - players who for one reason or another (but mainly because of lack of experience alongside them, or because of the way the team is set up or being played out of position) could IMO have been greater successes than they have been.

I know that this is not wholly the manager's fault and that the players themselves have to shoulder some blame - but there are still question marks for me.

And finally I have to wonder whether our manager has also been a good thing for the club in terms of his absolute dominance. While not his fault - he has allowed the club to be over-conservative and non-progressive. His antipathy to pre season publicity tours has undoubtedly contributed to the club's failure to capitalise marketing-wise on the invincibles' legacy, and the strong impression is that he has fostered loyalty to himself, rather than to the club's proud traditions (in the way George Graham did, for example).

Look, its easy to be over-critical in hindsight, and on balance I still feel that Wenger has benefitted the club (in terms of its stability if not success) over the period. But I wonder if there has been recently much basis for assuming that 'Arsene knows'.

Thoughts?

are you sub/nasri scoreng??

[IBK]

are you sub/nasri scoreng??

That's me (thinking of going back to Sub 'cos 3 words are too long to sign in with)!

[IBK]

Great thread.

I think Wenger has benefitted the club's stability in terms of achieving the goal of retaining CL football but from a Technical point of view with the squad/development of players he's done an average to poor job.

I feel whilst he can be commended for sticking to his policy of developing players he has to the detriment of the team continued in vein to develop players who should have been shown the door quite some time ago, I do not feel he has been pragmatic enough in this instance.

Funnily enough I actually think the squad of 07/08 was one of the best squads he has assembled, it had a good mix of youth & experience. I actually feel that if he would have managed to successfully retain the core of that squad we would have gone on to win major trophies. For me, the major issues with his squad building and penchant for developing youth really stood out after the season of 07/08. Instead of a smooth transistion post 07/08, we endured a turbulent season waiting for Projects like Denilson, Diaby & Song to develop into top quality PL/CL performers.

What we're currently seeing is a cull of the first batch of "youth projects", the likes of Senderos (gone), Eboue (gone), Clichy (gone), Denilson (loan, will probably go), Bendtner (loan, will probably go). Add the likes of Traore (gone), Vela (who seems to have stagnated) & you actually have a big list of players who were either purchased or developed who have failed.

Where I think Wenger got it wrong was the timing of the cull, many of these players should have been shown the door a few years ago and not given bumper contracts.

Financial constraints aside, I do believe a lot of these decisions have been purely of Wenger's making and he unlike most managers tends to give players quite a long time to flourish, take the Almunia situation as a case in point.

Has Wenger really benefitted AFC since 2006, yes and no!

And that's the irony of the whole deal. The basis is good - some of his ideas and innovations have been great for the club, but there is a definite point where they have become obsessive and inflexible - to our detriment. This is where, by contrast, SAF stays so fresh. And where I start to wonder whether the great Wenger was great because he had a DD as a counterpoint.