"Currants Bw..."

[Niall_Quinn]

But you're the one that brought up racism.

Dude! The election is over. Why are you still trying to spin and snowjob anyone who is off message?

[Goonermerree]

I voted for Brexit, but Trump totally lost me when he said all of that crap about women on tape. I didn't like either candidate. And the racist crap that he spouted.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's the mainstream narrative from both Brexit and this election. The educated, informed, literate, caring and attractive people vote to Remain and for Mrs Clinton. The unwashed, thicko, racist, sexist, mysogynist, illiterate, cousin marrying clansmen vote for Little Britain or Hitler Trump.

Everybody knows that. In fact some of the more informed, literate, caring and attractive posters here have already framed events using the same language and in this thread (and the Brexit thread).

This is how the mainstream media trains people to think and speak and so many people are obliging.

Actually i think both sides are just as bad, on one hand there is a tendency to patronise, belittle or act contemptuously of these people. On the other hand there is an attempt to manipulate genuine disaffection and anger by offering simplistic solutions.

But ultimately you are going to be more inclined to listen to the person who isn't dismissive of you.

[Niall_Quinn]

Actually i think both sides are just as bad, on one hand there is a tendency to patronise, belittle or act contemptuously of these people. On the other hand there is an attempt to manipulate genuine disaffection and anger by offering simplistic solutions.

But ultimately you are going to be more inclined to listen to the person who isn't dismissive of you.

Shut it, I'm not listening.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

But you're the one that brought up racism.

I brought it up to say that people are mistakenly attributing it to Racism (and i clarified that didn't mean you) but at the same time there won't be the moral outrage if someone says we are going to do x and y to z, they are just going to think if it works, it works.....they just want their lives to be better.

If you have stomach pains and go to see two different doctors, one tells you painful exploratory surgery will be needed and there is no guarantee of finding the answer at the end of it, and the other just gives you a bottle of pills and says you will be fine in a week if you just one before you go to bed at night.....despite your misgivings who would you prefer to be right?.

[Power n Glory]

I didn't say anything about progressive politics or candidates. Progressive as used by the political classes is a euphemism. There hasn't been a progressive candidate who made it to the grand finale in decades. This time around Clinton played the part of the progressive liberal, so that's how ridiculous that term really is.

I absolutely am caught up in the election, why else would I have stayed up through the night to watch it? This was a very important election that saw the defeat of a very serious and dangerous criminal and her criminal gang and threw a wrench in the spokes of the warmongering neoliberal loonies. Which is what I have said all along, despite the different angles you have taken to try and ignore Clinton's past by blowing Trump's relative misdemeanours into some sort of global threat.

I think, as with Brexit, those people who are comfortable with the status quo get frightened when there's a ripple in what they see as normality, no matter how fucked up that normality is in reality. Therefore you get people bouncing around, panicking about a guy they know absolutely nothing about and proposing the familiar, comfortable war criminal, mass murderer, fraudster crook alternative would have been the safest bet.

I'm not "admitting" anything about Trump. I'm not and never have defended him. I'm simply questioning the defence of a vile creature like Clinton and expressing satisfaction she couldn't continue the Bush/ Clinton crime wave. And there's a huge difference between people who have woken up and see the system for what it is (who I doubt voted because that would just be silly) and those who are sick to the back teeth of it but still believe it is real. Last night we saw an awful lot of people try what they imagine will be a different option (just as the degenerate Obama was supposed to be) and my belief is if you can even get to the point where you desire an alternative to the status quo (real or imagined) then that's preferable to yearning for the typical establishment shit. Yes these people are going to get conned but some good could come of that when some of them at least figure they got conned. But what can you do with the sheep who think nothing needs to change? There's no hope for that lot.

I think most people fear that if career politicians can be corrupted, how far can someone like Trump, whose already corrupt, can take this thing.

I think you're way to caught up in this because you're already assuming my criticism of Trump is a defence of Hilary. You did it in a previous post....

This is a Trump vs Clinton thing for you. Fine. But it's not like that for me. Just the same as the clowns staging Remain vs Brexit were irrelevant. So I think it's safe enough to count me out of the delusional camp. The only important thing that happened in this election was a bang to rights criminal who traded her office and state secrets was placed in front of the people who were then asked to endorse her. If she had won then there would be no hope whatsoever.

I call bullshit on the above. People didn't search their souls and find it too disturbing to vote for Hilary but ok to vote for Trump. I'd be surprised if someone that usually votes democratic swung to the opposite end to vote for Trump based on those grounds.

[Power n Glory]

Dude! The election is over. Why are you still trying to spin and snowjob anyone who is off message?

Freedom of speech. You don't have to engage with this at all. Leave. Don't be a hypocrite.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think most people fear that if career politicians can be corrupted, how far can someone like Trump, whose already corrupt, can take this thing.

I think you're way to caught up in this because you're already assuming my criticism of Trump is a defence of Hilary. You did it in a previous post....



I call bullshit on the above. People didn't search their souls and find it too disturbing to vote for Hilary but ok to vote for Trump. I'd be surprised if someone that usually votes democratic swung to the opposite end to vote for Trump based on those grounds.

Again, none of what you are saying makes any sense. You are worried about what Trump MIGHT do but seem unconcerned at what Clinton actually has done. There's at least a possibility Trump won't do any of the things you fear whereas there is zero chance with Clinton as she's already done most of them. And thank fuck she's been stopped because the next step seemed to be certain conflict with Russia. I mean did you listen to these crazy fucks during the election? Pure McCarthyism, embarrassing stuff.

I've been caught up in the US election cycle since 1990 and flipping the narrative in the way you are doing is not subtle. In an either/ or situation if Trump doesn't win then the other one wins. So if you are anyone bar Trump, and it sure sounds that way, then by default you are pro-Clinton, at least to the extent you would be okay seeing her take the presidency and welcome her gang into the Whitehouse. I already said yesterday, all yes, I want Trump to win. But you are coy. You want Trump to lose and what? Nobody to win? That wasn't on the menu.

Call bullshit all you want. The Bush/ Clinton era is surely over now (although never say never). I never once said people searched their souls, I said I (personally) find it encouraging that the majority of Americans didn't endorse this super criminal. I said if that had happened there would be little hope for any sort of change, ever. If you run such a fatally flawed and overtly criminal candidate like that and enough people say yes, fine then you are in deep, deep shit. That was averted last night and that's definitely a good thing. Doesn't mean anything has been solved, it just means plenty of very serious shit stands a far better chance of being averted.

[Niall_Quinn]

Freedom of speech. You don't have to engage with this at all. Leave. Don't be a hypocrite.

Again, nonsensical. I asked you a question, I didn't suggest you not speak. The hypocrite part is a crude attempt at reflection I guess?

[Niall_Quinn]

Corbyn next HCZ. What do you say to that?