"Currants Bw..."

[Ollie the Optimist]

In the last three major elections (2015 GE, EU Ref and US election), one of the key reasons that left lost is because they have given up the idea of debating with anyone who disagrees with them. They think that anyone who votes differently to them is sub human scum and deserves no time. Why would that convince anyone to vote for their side? In this day and age, so many of my generation use social media and surround themselves with likeminded people and anyone who dares to disagree with anything they say is shouted down. There is no engaging and trying to find out why the person disagrees with them, they just say they are a stupid racist and scum.

There have been cases in the last three elections of shy tory/trump/leave voters as why would people want to subject themselves to abuse? While i believe that you should be open about what you want to vote for and why you will vote that way, i also understand while several people wont subject themselves to abuse just for daring to be different then others. I have tried to debate with many both on Facebook and twitter and i end up just being accused of being a racist ukip voter. Why would i try and engage with people like that again and listen to what they have to say? They clearly don't care what i think and that is why the left will struggle to win another election for a while. They have this smugness about themselves that they are better people then the right and therefore shouldn't engage which leads to the right voting for the Tories or Donald Trump because the left make no effort to engage sensibly with them.

The left also claim the right are racist and spread hate yet a lot of the time in the protests following both Trump election and Tory election there have been death threats issued to people who dared vote for either. There was a video yesterday of a group of young black men beating up a older white male who voted Trump. They claim voting for Trump would lead to a rise in racist attacks yet there they are performing these racist attacks yet it is justified because they didn't vote for Trump. Yet when you compare the reaction of Tory voters to labour winning the london Mayor election, there were no marches they just accepted it and got on with it. Now, we all have a right to protest and that must be protected but most of these protestors are the reason their side lost. They intimate anyone who disagrees with them and alienates them and then wonder why they lose.

Until most on the left accept others have different view points and try and engage with them instead of calling them scum and racist, they will struggle to win another election for a while both here in the UK and in the US.

[Goonermerree]

In the last three major elections (2015 GE, EU Ref and US election), one of the key reasons that left lost is because they have given up the idea of debating with anyone who disagrees with them. They think that anyone who votes differently to them is sub human scum and deserves no time. Why would that convince anyone to vote for their side? In this day and age, so many of my generation use social media and surround themselves with likeminded people and anyone who dares to disagree with anything they say is shouted down. There is no engaging and trying to find out why the person disagrees with them, they just say they are a stupid racist and scum.

There have been cases in the last three elections of shy tory/trump/leave voters as why would people want to subject themselves to abuse? While i believe that you should be open about what you want to vote for and why you will vote that way, i also understand while several people wont subject themselves to abuse just for daring to be different then others. I have tried to debate with many both on Facebook and twitter and i end up just being accused of being a racist ukip voter. Why would i try and engage with people like that again and listen to what they have to say? They clearly don't care what i think and that is why the left will struggle to win another election for a while. They have this smugness about themselves that they are better people then the right and therefore shouldn't engage which leads to the right voting for the Tories or Donald Trump because the left make no effort to engage sensibly with them.

The left also claim the right are racist and spread hate yet a lot of the time in the protests following both Trump election and Tory election there have been death threats issued to people who dared vote for either. There was a video yesterday of a group of young black men beating up a older white male who voted Trump. They claim voting for Trump would lead to a rise in racist attacks yet there they are performing these racist attacks yet it is justified because they didn't vote for Trump. Yet when you compare the reaction of Tory voters to labour winning the london Mayor election, there were no marches they just accepted it and got on with it. Now, we all have a right to protest and that must be protected but most of these protestors are the reason their side lost. They intimate anyone who disagrees with them and alienates them and then wonder why they lose.

Until most on the left accept others have different view points and try and engage with them instead of calling them scum and racist, they will struggle to win another election for a while both here in the UK and in the US.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Power n Glory]

Of course she continued to abuse the poor, that was her job. The "rioters" (resistance) achieved their aims and overturned a very unjust law. Their aims didn't go beyond that, which is a shame. The Clintonistas can't possibly achieve their aims. Not my President, Fuck Trump? So what are their aims? To remove Trump? Well they get the chance to do that in 4 years or else they have to do it by undemocratic means. And considering they are lamenting the "fascist" who was elected against all the odds, wouldn't it be a bit hypocritical to remove Trump in an undemocratic manner? Mind you, hypocrisy is no barrier to these losers quite obviously.

So what would going beyond that mean for the resistance? Maybe overthrowing Thatcher? Would that be the next step? We’ve seen it happen in other countries. The Arab Spring?

So if the establishment need that sort of kick from the people, what’s your problem with those protesting? Ok, if they were to get Trump out and Hilary gets in, why would it stop them kicking Hilary out in the same way if she carried on the nonsense? Not saying that’s the right way to go, it seems like your suggesting that’s the awakening people need, so to call the protesters hypocritical…makes no sense to me.

[Goonermerree]

We have a right to protest in democracies, but I can't see the point of protesting over democratic decisions. There will be many reasons to protest against Trump once he gets going, but if every time someone is elected to power there are riots by the other side it will just get ridiculous. People had their voice, they had their vote, the other fella got in, so just protest now about his policies when they come thick and fast.

Even Trump voters will be questioning him, to a point. A lot of people in the USA will not have got past the fact that they can keep guns, and abolish abortions. That will be a bit reason why many voted for Trump/Pence.

[Niall_Quinn]

So dropping bombs with Russia and helping Assad bomb his own people is acceptable?

And there we go again. I tell you what Trump actually said, in direct contradiction to what you implied, so that's done, shift goalposts and go again.

Assad, like any of the authoritarians in a region continuously destabilised by the world powers, is ruthless towards his opponents. But does he bomb his own people? Well yes he does now, following the US starting a civil war in his country and sending ISIS against him. That's what happens in a civil war. Did the Americans bomb and burn the shit out of civilians during their own civil war? Yes they did.

But was Assad a crazed tyrant happily bombing his people before the US intervened? Of course not and any fool can figure out what that bullshit is all about. First it was Saddam, then Gadaffi, now it is Assad and tomorrow it will be whoever we want it to be. Dictators don't bomb people to hold power because they wouldn't hold it for very long. Instead they arrest people, violate their human rights, lock them up as political prisoners, assassinate them. Just the same as the US does. In fact one Barak Obama is infamous for such behaviour.

However, now that the US has started this war and created ISIS, now that there's a chance to do something about it, yes, I think it would be a good idea to bomb the shit out of ISIS. And if we could avoid conflict with the Russians then that would be a great idea.

[Niall_Quinn]

So what would going beyond that mean for the resistance? Maybe overthrowing Thatcher? Would that be the next step? We’ve seen it happen in other countries. The Arab Spring?

So if the establishment need that sort of kick from the people, what’s your problem with those protesting? Ok, if they were to get Trump out and Hilary gets in, why would it stop them kicking Hilary out in the same way if she carried on the nonsense? Not saying that’s the right way to go, it seems like your suggesting that’s the awakening people need, so to call the protesters hypocritical…makes no sense to me.

I would have liked to see civil resistance right across the board. I'd rather not see violence at all but the unhappy truth is violence is usually the only way an oppressive regime can be toppled. And yes we do have an oppressive regime here in the UK, only it's not as oppressive as the regimes we fund elsewhere so we are moderate only in a relevant sense. Even so, the entire system is set up to rob from the poor to hand to the rich the the state hires thugs and accomplices in ever increasing numbers to protect this racket. There is no equality under the law, there is a horribly tilted economic playing field, there is an inner circle of privilege that guards all the levers of control - protected by a media that proclaims anyone who comes along that might challenge this arrangement is a racist or a terrorist or a something-ist that must be feared. So our regime is relatively benign by comparison but would happily be brutal if provoked. That's why I don't agree with violence, because good people would get gunned down in the blink of an eye. I wouldn't object at all if there was some guarantee only the fuckers in charge would get slaughtered, but no such guarantee is possible. They have been on their guard since the heroic Guy Fawkes tried his hand at it. There's a reason why the violent bastards in charge, responsible for the deaths of millions all over the globe, tell us violence isn't the answer. Because they don't fancy being on the end of it for a change.

So refusal to work Refusal to consume. Refusal to bank. Just for 3-4 days. We could all go out and meet the neighbours and share what we have. Big smiles on our faces, the BBC switched off, a big fuck-you to any statist scum that showed his face. The state would be done by the end of it. A peaceful revolution for the people by the people and there's nothing the state could do about it. Not a damn thing. Which is why every learned commentator in the media will tell you no such uprising is possible and every politician works so hard to keep people divided. But of course Ghandi drove the British into the sea. Admittedly he failed when he went up against the real demons on this planet and the masters of division, the religious mobsters. But nobody can beat them until the human capacity for reason develops.

[Letters]

Yep, you got me. I'm one of those book reader types.

I'm sure you'll find Wally one day.

[Goonermerree]

I'm sure you'll find Wally one day.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I'm sure you could have managed a bit of brevity.

[Xhaka Can’t]

In the last three major elections (2015 GE, EU Ref and US election), one of the key reasons that left lost is because they have given up the idea of debating with anyone who disagrees with them. They think that anyone who votes differently to them is sub human scum and deserves no time. Why would that convince anyone to vote for their side? In this day and age, so many of my generation use social media and surround themselves with likeminded people and anyone who dares to disagree with anything they say is shouted down. There is no engaging and trying to find out why the person disagrees with them, they just say they are a stupid racist and scum.

There have been cases in the last three elections of shy tory/trump/leave voters as why would people want to subject themselves to abuse? While i believe that you should be open about what you want to vote for and why you will vote that way, i also understand while several people wont subject themselves to abuse just for daring to be different then others. I have tried to debate with many both on Facebook and twitter and i end up just being accused of being a racist ukip voter. Why would i try and engage with people like that again and listen to what they have to say? They clearly don't care what i think and that is why the left will struggle to win another election for a while. They have this smugness about themselves that they are better people then the right and therefore shouldn't engage which leads to the right voting for the Tories or Donald Trump because the left make no effort to engage sensibly with them.

The left also claim the right are racist and spread hate yet a lot of the time in the protests following both Trump election and Tory election there have been death threats issued to people who dared vote for either. There was a video yesterday of a group of young black men beating up a older white male who voted Trump. They claim voting for Trump would lead to a rise in racist attacks yet there they are performing these racist attacks yet it is justified because they didn't vote for Trump. Yet when you compare the reaction of Tory voters to labour winning the london Mayor election, there were no marches they just accepted it and got on with it. Now, we all have a right to protest and that must be protected but most of these protestors are the reason their side lost. They intimate anyone who disagrees with them and alienates them and then wonder why they lose.

Until most on the left accept others have different view points and try and engage with them instead of calling them scum and racist, they will struggle to win another election for a while both here in the UK and in the US.

That mindset is not unique to the left.

Far too many people refuse to step outside the comfort of their echo chamber.