"Currants Bw..."

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Why not? It's just as much his court as the judges. People forget that. These are OUR courts too and we have a right to be heard in them and they have an obligation to hear. It's the principle that's important, not the content.

He may have the right to speak, but no one is obliged to listen

[Niall_Quinn]

He may have the right to speak, but no one is obliged to listen

The court is, it must. That's the whole point of the court.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The court is, it must. That's the whole point of the court.

My point is more, the media shouldn't report anything he says, in fact it would be better in events like this that the whole court proceedings are treated as off limits

Mair killed Cox to give himself a platform, if he's granted one.....than we are rewarding him for brutality not punishing him.

It's the same as when the American media indulged Ted Bundy with his self-serving homily about how the distribution of violent pornography was responsible for his crimes, and that potentially any young man could have made the choices he did.

[Power n Glory]

That's the problem though, the more a bigger deal is made of it. The more attractive the prospect of murdering public servants as a way of sending a "political message". It should have been treated as an ordinary murder and Thomas Muir as a loser with nothing to say.

But the media want to sensationalise, the same way they did when they released the video of Michael Adebelajo talking to the camera at the scene of Lee Rigbys killing.

It's not quite the same.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's not quite the same.

It's exactly the same. by giving them any public airing it's a form of legitimising their actions. If you want your opinions heard controversial or not, you should not expect that committing brutal violence should be a viable tool to allow this.

[Niall_Quinn]

The only issue I take with what you've said, is to equate it with Mental Health issues

Whilst I am quite happy for people like Mair and Adebalajo to be found not guilty by reason of insanity. In the conventional sense neither are mentally ill. They aren't victims of an uncaring political system that infantilises their behaviour, they are maladjusted sociopaths and no amount of treatment would prevent what they did.

I totally agree that the cutting in funding to mental health services is a disgrace but that's because it leaves people vulnerable and unable to lead independent lives not because it churns out n'er do wells like Mair.

I'm not claiming these killers are the victims, but plainly they have a screw lose and that can only be exacerbated by the deeply unprofessional and immoral twats in the media and the amoral, similarly sociopathic deviants in government. Build the conditions of a lunatic asylum and you will encourage lunatics. Fracture society, drive wedges, isolate people, place them under constant pressure and fear, drip endless propaganda into their brains. Remove all support structures. How hard should we cry when what is sown is then reaped? Certainly there's no justification for murder, ever, under any circumstances. Which is why I hate politicians. But if you treat people like animals then they'll behave like animals. Keep poking a dog, 24/7/365. Most dogs will whimper and tolerate it, others will eventually bite your face off. When it bites you, sure, the dog is guilty of biting you. No argument there. But I'm going to vomit in my mouth if the victim tries to gain the moral high ground.

[Niall_Quinn]

My point is more, the media shouldn't report anything he says, in fact it would be better in events like this that the whole court proceedings are treated as off limits

Mair killed Cox to give himself a platform, if he's granted one.....than we are rewarding him for brutality not punishing him.

It's the same as when the American media indulged Ted Bundy with his self-serving homily about how the distribution of violent pornography was responsible for his crimes, and that potentially any young man could have made the choices he did.

Truth is, the media should report a lot more. Their fault lies in trivialising the matter and trying to score cheap points for their petty agendas. A real journalist, somewhere out there, should take this story and run with it to wherever it leads. And it will lead to a dark and dingy place, that's for sure. Either this guy is a complete nutter who should have been under care for his own protection and the protection of everyone else, or some train of events and circumstances led him to murder. Examining those events and the role of everyone who played a significant part would be a real act of journalism. And part of that would be listening to what the guy has to say, because on the back of real reporting it could be placed in a realistic context. But you are right. As things stand and as journalists continue to choose to forego professionalism then it's better if they report nothing at all. That decision is being taken for them as their relevance plummets and the trust placed in them evaporates. So we won't have to worry about this much longer.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm not claiming these killers are the victims, but plainly they have a screw lose and that can only be exacerbated by the deeply unprofessional and immoral twats in the media and the amoral, similarly sociopathic deviants in government. Build the conditions of a lunatic asylum and you will encourage lunatics. Fracture society, drive wedges, isolate people, place them under constant pressure and fear, drip endless propaganda into their brains. Remove all support structures. How hard should we cry when what is sown is then reaped? Certainly there's no justification for murder, ever, under any circumstances. Which is why I hate politicians. But if you treat people like animals then they'll behave like animals. Keep poking a dog, 24/7/365. Most dogs will whimper and tolerate it, others will eventually bite your face off. When it bites you, sure, the dog is guilty of biting you. No argument there. But I'm going to vomit in my mouth if the victim tries to gain the moral high ground.

Again i state that stating that these "guys" have a screw loose mitigates for their actions when none exist.

I accept that you believe that the state is either directly or indirectly responsible for all of this (I don't), and I reject any suggestion that these individuals are products of their environment and would be redeemable in some other society you deem more befitting of human existence.

[Power n Glory]

It's exactly the same. by giving them any public airing it's a form of legitimising their actions. If you want your opinions heard controversial or not, you should not expect that committing brutal violence should be a viable tool to allow this.

As said, going back to the original point, The Daily Mail seem to be handling this case in a different way compared to how they usually deal with things.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Truth is, the media should report a lot more. Their fault lies in trivialising the matter and trying to score cheap points for their petty agendas. A real journalist, somewhere out there, should take this story and run with it to wherever it leads. And it will lead to a dark and dingy place, that's for sure. Either this guy is a complete nutter who should have been under care for his own protection and the protection of everyone else, or some train of events and circumstances led him to murder. Examining those events and the role of everyone who played a significant part would be a real act of journalism. And part of that would be listening to what the guy has to say, because on the back of real reporting it could be placed in a realistic context. But you are right. As things stand and as journalists continue to choose to forego professionalism then it's better if they report nothing at all. That decision is being taken for them as their relevance plummets and the trust placed in them evaporates. So we won't have to worry about this much longer.

Again you seem content to offer mitigation where i don't.

No this guy didn't have diminished capacity, no he wasn't any more of a victim than the millions of people in this country who don't go out and kill other people.

He is simply a bad person, some human beings are bad people. I feel this has to be accepted even if you believe government is at the root of all evil, because government after all is a purely human construct.