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  1. #21061
    ***** Niall_Quinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie View Post
    The context is clearly that this man killed someone to get attention. That's why he refused to enter a plea at his court hearing. In that sense any other analysis of what motivated this man is a capitulation to him.

    The only real punishment befitting of a man like that is for him to be ignored. Locking him away is for our own protection.
    I would think the reason why a person would do this and the context in which his actions are framed are of eminent importance. This is entirely separate to the issue of the media and their shallow agendas. But the media is prepared to speak, and speak loudly. So if everyone else simply washes their hands then the media will set the stage and play on it without challenge. In this society we're always tackling symptoms, we hardly ever consider causes. This is deliberate I suppose.
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  2. #21062
    Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    I would think the reason why a person would do this and the context in which his actions are framed are of eminent importance. This is entirely separate to the issue of the media and their shallow agendas. But the media is prepared to speak, and speak loudly. So if everyone else simply washes their hands then the media will set the stage and play on it without challenge. In this society we're always tackling symptoms, we hardly ever consider causes. This is deliberate I suppose.
    I'm not convinced it is important, like I say it all leads to one thing somehow diminishing the responsibility this man had for his crime.

    Now the media will always allow this to happen to push an agenda, I mentioned Ted Bundy earlier and how a Christian conservative interviewed Bundy where Bundy blamed violent pornography that dehumanises women on what he did. This was beneficial to the Christian conservative because he could peddle something that confirmed his own bias and it benefited Bundy because like any other sociopath it gave him an avenue to direct the responsibility of his actions onto others.

    Mair killed someone, now he could have stood up in court and delivered a speech about how Jo Cox represented the liberal traitors selling out his country to globalisation and to multiculturalism and his actions were a message that it would not be tolerated anymore.

    Is that case closed because it comes from the Horses mouth?. Or is that just another person trying to negate his own responsibility by telling us he had no choice.

    Ultimately people love true crime stories, they love to hear the myriad background factors going through people's minds that cause them to do things they themselves would never contemplate.

    I think it sufficient to know that Mair is a killer and his freedom is not conducive to public safety
    Last edited by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie; 25-11-2016 at 01:32 PM.

  3. #21063
    Member Power n Glory's Avatar
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    HCZ - it sounds dangerously close to a media blackout for certain events and incidents? Isn't that just perpetuating the problem? We have a problem with the way news stories are spun or ignored already.

  4. #21064
    Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory View Post
    HCZ - it sounds dangerously close to a media blackout for certain events and incidents? Isn't that just perpetuating the problem? We have a problem with the way news stories are spun or ignored already.
    No i don't think it perpetuates the problem, i think the 24 hour news cycle that creams it's pants over murders, mass shootings etc exacerbates the problem. I'm not saying the crimes should not be reported on at all, but far less attention should be paid to the suspect.

    Ultimately in so many of these cases the perpetrator craves notoriety and we are obliging them.

    If Mair met the definition of someone who suffered from psychiatric illness than it would be different, because ultimately the context would be that the system had failed both him and by extension Jo Cox, but that simply is not the case.
    Last edited by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie; 25-11-2016 at 02:09 PM.

  5. #21065
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie View Post
    No i don't think it perpetuates the problem, i think the 24 hour news cycle that creams it's pants over murders, mass shootings etc exacerbates the problem. I'm not saying the crimes should not be reported on at all, but far less attention should be paid to the suspect.

    Ultimately in so many of these cases the perpetrator craves notoriety and we are obliging them.


    If Mair met the definition of someone who suffered from psychiatric illness than it would be different, because ultimately the context would be that the system had failed both him and by extension Jo Cox, but that simply is not the case.
    Isn't that the same as taking responsibility away from the individual and blaming the media?

  6. #21066
    Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory View Post
    Isn't that the same as taking responsibility away from the individual and blaming the media?
    Ultimately you could argue that if the media don't turn the defendant into some quasi celebrity and people know that the rationale for their crimes are going to be ignored than there is less incentive for them to commit such a crime.

    Whilst i don't think hyperbole and media sensation is helpful, yes I do believe ultimately people are responsible for their own actions until they are not (diminished capacity).

    Blaming the media by making a crime appealing, would be the same as the victim of Murder in furtherance of theft being responsible for what happened to him by being rich and flaunting it.

    If you flash a gold watch in public you run the risk of being robbed and it's probably irresponsible, but ultimately the person at fault is the person who took it upon himself to assault you and steal the watch.

  7. #21067
    Member Power n Glory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie View Post
    Ultimately you could argue that if the media don't turn the defendant into some quasi celebrity and people know that the rationale for their crimes are going to be ignored than there is less incentive for them to commit such a crime.

    Whilst i don't think hyperbole and media sensation is helpful, yes I do believe ultimately people are responsible for their own actions until they are not (diminished capacity).

    Blaming the media by making a crime appealing, would be the same as the victim of Murder in furtherance of theft being responsible for what happened to him by being rich and flaunting it.

    If you flash a gold watch in public you run the risk of being robbed and it's probably irresponsible, but ultimately the person at fault is the person who took it upon himself to assault you and steal the watch.
    I wouldn't argue that. Plenty of attention seekers out in the world and you can become a celebrity for a lot less. I seriously doubt it's an incentive. If one murder isn't enough to catch headlines, a sick mind will only up the stakes to commit something that's hard to ignore.

  8. #21068
    Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory View Post
    I wouldn't argue that. Plenty of attention seekers out in the world and you can become a celebrity for a lot less. I seriously doubt it's an incentive. If one murder isn't enough to catch headlines, a sick mind will only up the stakes to commit something that's hard to ignore.
    And how often are mass murders or high profile murders ignored?

    Adam Lanza, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, Seung Hui Cho even in death they have all gained a kind of immortality through infammy

    No not all attention seekers are going to kill people, most of them will try to go on apalling reality shows.

    But individuals like those above are given added incentive to carry out their violent desires when they believe there is some kind of twisted reward for it.

    Would they do it anyway? probably but either way you are giving them both agency and incentive

  9. #21069
    Member Power n Glory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie View Post
    And how often are mass murders or high profile murders ignored?

    Adam Lanza, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, Seung Hui Cho even in death they have all gained a kind of immortality through infammy

    No not all attention seekers are going to kill people, most of them will try to go on apalling reality shows.

    But individuals like those above are given added incentive to carry out their violent desires when they believe there is some kind of twisted reward for it.

    Would they do it anyway? probably but either way you are giving them both agency and incentive
    Sounds like a contradiction to me.

  10. #21070
    Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory View Post
    Sounds like a contradiction to me.
    Not really, it would be a contradiction if i said the media were both responsible and not responsible for these killers do

    What I'm saying is they may well do it anyway but why encourage them.

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