"Currants Bw..."

[Letters]

This is absolutely not a matter of the GOSH staff's competence. This condition is not curable. There is no treatment. To say that the GOSH staff's inability to treat this child shows incompetence is to have no understanding of what that word means. If the kid has appendicitis and the doctors fail to treat it then yes, that's incompetent. That is a condition which is easily treatable. But that is not the case here. The issue is not whether THEY could help, the issue is whether ANYONE could help and it was fairly clear in this case that no-one could.

The American in question (who, by the way, has a financial interest in the treatment he offered) even conceded it would not reverse the extensive brain damage which had already occurred. The treatment has never even been tried on this variation of the condition.

In terms of who makes the decision in the case of a minor who is not able to make their own decision, that should be the parents but there has to be some process if the parents are making decisions which the doctors feel will harm their child. If the kid has appendicitis and the parents want to pray about it and hope it goes away then even as a Charlie Church I'd have to say that should be challenged. If the parents and doctors can't agree then that's where it has to get legal and someone has to arbitrate. What other process can you have? These cases are rare, usually it IS the parents who get to decide in consultation with the doctors. But you have to have some process if the parents and doctors are unable to agree and the doctors feel the parents are making decisions which will harm their child.

[GP]

I saw some people on a facebook group saying that GOSH had murdered the child.

How fucking stupid can people be?

[Power n Glory]

I appreciate your utter commitment to the individual over the state but again nothing you've stated suggested the doctors were in anyway medically wrong to make the decision they did. Why did they deny the parents the right to take him to the states? Because they have a duty of care to their patient and it was abundantly clear he wouldn't have survived the journey let alone benefitted from the treatment which would not in fact have reversed any of the brain damage.

Equally if you've got Christian scientists who refuse their child medical treatment which could save its life because they prefer to put their faith in the power of prayer....is it fine for those individuals to make this decision?

I get where NQ is coming from. Glance through the below stories. There are plenty of examples of parents having to question what they're originally told by doctors and take a chance. Not saying they don’t care but the ‘duty of care’ line can only stretch so far. We’re talking about an organisation that’s under staffed, underfunded and relying on limited resources. When that stretched I question how much pressure they are under to look for the quick solution.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/heal...r-doctors.html

A teenager who was declared brain dead by four doctors has made a "miracle" recovery after his parents asked for another medical opinion, just moments before his life support machine could have been switched off.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/03/26/boys-m...nabis-6534160/

A 13-year-old boy who was one in only five people in the world with an extremely rare cancer that meant he had only two weeks left to live managed to make a miracle recovery – thanks to cannabis.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...ivity-10865982

Baby left with 'no brain activity’ after falling in swimming pool smiles after parents find 'miracle' doctor online

Two-year-old Eden Carlson's family say doctors told them she would remain in a vegetative state after being starved of oxygen for two hours - unable to eat, talk or walk ever again

[Letters]

Again, it's very easy to judge looking in from the outside. Heck, aren't you the same person that said something about your church people giving testimonies of miraculous events?

I do believe in miraculous healings. Well, it's more than a vague belief, I know a couple of people quite well who have experienced them. But I also know that these things are not common. And the parents in this case weren't basing their hopes for Charlie on faith in such things, they simply thought they knew better than the doctors. They still do.

Now, doctors make mistakes, obviously. But when multiple medical experts who have years of training and experience (when you have none) keep telling you the same thing then it's time to stop telling them they're wrong. The parents have repeatedly lied about the kid's condition and even now they're saying that had GOSH not delayed treatment then their son could have recovered and had a normal life. That is NOT true. There is no cure or treatment for this condition. Even this "experimental" treatment has never even been tried on this variation of the kid's condition and the doctor who offered it conceded it would not reverse the extensive brain damage which had already occurred.

They are painting GOSH as the "bad guys". They say they've been fighting for Charlie, I just think they've been fighting for themselves, unable to accept the reality of what has happened. For once I don't blame the press for whipping up this circus, the parents have actively courted publicity, they didn't need to accept the interviews if they wanted this to be a private matter. It suited their agenda to court the publicity. And the result is GOSH staff being abused and threatened and protests accusing the GOSH of letting Charlie die when something could have been done (which it couldn't). And all the time poor Charlie lies there as this drags on and on, unable to see, unable to move, unable to breathe without being assisted. I just hope he hasn't been in pain.

It IS easy to sit here pontificating, I've never been in their situation and I hope I never have to be. But I do know other people who have been in similar situations and they have come to an agreement with the doctors to end life support, they haven't dragged it through the courts and made it a national story. So people saying "any parent would have done the same" are simply wrong.

I do feel sorry for the parents, they had a (seemingly) perfectly healthy baby boy and then all this happened. But they have refused to accept the reality of what happened and that has meant more suffering for Charlie, abuse of the GOSH staff and resources wasted on keeping Charlie alive artificially when those resources could have been better spent on kids who have a chance of recovery when he had none.

As I said before, there are no winners in all this, only losers. But maybe some good can come out of the money they raised.

[Letters]

I saw some people on a facebook group saying that GOSH had murdered the child.

How fucking stupid can people be?

Well, you've been on here a while, so...

[WMUG]

I do believe in miraculous healings. Well, it's more than a vague belief, I know a couple of people quite well who have experienced them.

I'll just leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZeWPScnolo

[Niall_Quinn]

I do believe in miraculous healings. Well, it's more than a vague belief, I know a couple of people quite well who have experienced them. But I also know that these things are not common. And the parents in this case weren't basing their hopes for Charlie on faith in such things, they simply thought they knew better than the doctors. They still do.

Now, doctors make mistakes, obviously. But when multiple medical experts who have years of training and experience (when you have none) keep telling you the same thing then it's time to stop telling them they're wrong. The parents have repeatedly lied about the kid's condition and even now they're saying that had GOSH not delayed treatment then their son could have recovered and had a normal life. That is NOT true. There is no cure or treatment for this condition. Even this "experimental" treatment has never even been tried on this variation of the kid's condition and the doctor who offered it conceded it would not reverse the extensive brain damage which had already occurred.

They are painting GOSH as the "bad guys". They say they've been fighting for Charlie, I just think they've been fighting for themselves, unable to accept the reality of what has happened. For once I don't blame the press for whipping up this circus, the parents have actively courted publicity, they didn't need to accept the interviews if they wanted this to be a private matter. It suited their agenda to court the publicity. And the result is GOSH staff being abused and threatened and protests accusing the GOSH of letting Charlie die when something could have been done (which it couldn't). And all the time poor Charlie lies there as this drags on and on, unable to see, unable to move, unable to breathe without being assisted. I just hope he hasn't been in pain.

It IS easy to sit here pontificating, I've never been in their situation and I hope I never have to be. But I do know other people who have been in similar situations and they have come to an agreement with the doctors to end life support, they haven't dragged it through the courts and made it a national story. So people saying "any parent would have done the same" are simply wrong.

I do feel sorry for the parents, they had a (seemingly) perfectly healthy baby boy and then all this happened. But they have refused to accept the reality of what happened and that has meant more suffering for Charlie, abuse of the GOSH staff and resources wasted on keeping Charlie alive artificially when those resources could have been better spent on kids who have a chance of recovery when he had none.

As I said before, there are no winners in all this, only losers. But maybe some good can come out of the money they raised.

I offer this posting into closing evidence.

[Letters]

I get where NQ is coming from. Glance through the below stories. There are plenty of examples of parents having to question what they're originally told by doctors and take a chance. Not saying they don’t care but the ‘duty of care’ line can only stretch so far. We’re talking about an organisation that’s under staffed, underfunded and relying on limited resources. When that stretched I question how much pressure they are under to look for the quick solution.

I don't think there is anything wrong with them not just accepting the doctor's opinion at face value.
I completely understand them asking for second opinions. Anyone would do that.
What most people wouldn't do though is whip up a media storm and act like GOSH are trying to kill their child (leading to abuse of and threats towards GOSH staff) and claim that they have found a cure if only those nasty GOSH people would let them take their child.
This experimental treatment is NOT a cure and has never even been tried on this form of Charlie's condition.
It would NOT reverse the extensive brain damage which had already occurred late last year.
Multiple medical experts and multiple courts kept telling them the same thing.

[Letters]

I offer this posting into closing evidence.

Another post where you say nothing.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I get where NQ is coming from. Glance through the below stories. There are plenty of examples of parents having to question what they're originally told by doctors and take a chance. Not saying they don’t care but the ‘duty of care’ line can only stretch so far. We’re talking about an organisation that’s under staffed, underfunded and relying on limited resources. When that stretched I question how much pressure they are under to look for the quick solution.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/heal...r-doctors.html



http://metro.co.uk/2017/03/26/boys-m...nabis-6534160/



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...ivity-10865982

I would hope that you accept that these are outliers. And it's not a basis for which we can decide To routinely ignore medical expertise.

And at the risk of being a pedant, a miracle would be defined as a disturbance to the natural order to make what would appear physically impossible, possible (and that's why there's no such thing, at best a demonstration of a gap or an error in our understanding). These are cases where the chances of recovery are statistically slim and they have defied the odds.
It's not a matter of blind faith.