"Currants Bw..."

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think the SNP would be calling for another independence referendum regardless of Brexit

I think the two things are similar though, essentially I do agree that it is a reasonable proposition to be independent. It’s as reasonable to want to be free of EU jurisdiction as it is to want to be free of Westminster.

The problem is the proposition is made by charlatans who seem to neither know nor care what happens next.

I’m an old fashioned Unionist, I definitely would prefer Scotland to stay part of the United Kingdom. Curiously I don’t feel the same way about Northern Ireland…I think culturally they are a different country to us and I think a younger generation will feel more inclined towards Irish reunification.

As I’ve said previously, I think there is less dislike for the Union itself than there is for the Tory and Labour Party. In 2014 every area outside of Glasgow voted to remain in the Union. With the exception of maybe somewhere like Dundee I don’t imagine that will change with a second independence referendum. However that shouldn’t be taken for granted, and any remain campaign would have to learn the lessons of the atrocious better together campaign. Instead of trying to strong arm the Scottish people and tell them the dire consequences, there needs to be an attempt to sell the Union and make sure the Scots feel like a valued partner.

Ultimately I agree that the choice has to be theirs.

[Letters]

I think the SNP would be calling for another independence referendum regardless of Brexit

Probably true, but Brexit gives them a really good argument for one - it's changed the situation when as a country they wanted to remain. And thus potentially changed the attitude towards the Union. It underlines the fact that they are not independent and have been dragged out of the EU against their will.

I’m an old fashioned Unionist, I definitely would prefer Scotland to stay part of the United Kingdom.

Overall I agree, but mostly because I don't like change. It probably wouldn't actually change much in my day to day life.

[IBK]

I think the SNP would be calling for another independence referendum regardless of Brexit

I think the two things are similar though, essentially I do agree that it is a reasonable proposition to be independent. It’s as reasonable to want to be free of EU jurisdiction as it is to want to be free of Westminster.

The problem is the proposition is made by charlatans who seem to neither know nor care what happens next.

I’m an old fashioned Unionist, I definitely would prefer Scotland to stay part of the United Kingdom. Curiously I don’t feel the same way about Northern Ireland…I think culturally they are a different country to us and I think a younger generation will feel more inclined towards Irish reunification.

As I’ve said previously, I think there is less dislike for the Union itself than there is for the Tory and Labour Party. In 2014 every area outside of Glasgow voted to remain in the Union. With the exception of maybe somewhere like Dundee I don’t imagine that will change with a second independence referendum. However that shouldn’t be taken for granted, and any remain campaign would have to learn the lessons of the atrocious better together campaign. Instead of trying to strong arm the Scottish people and tell them the dire consequences, there needs to be an attempt to sell the Union and make sure the Scots feel like a valued partner.

Ultimately I agree that the choice has to be theirs.

I can't help but feel that the SNP's referendum obsession is as political as Cameron's Brexit referendum was, and could potentially be just as damaging.

[mandela8]

Always funny to read English people trying to understand summin they'll just never get.

Most Scottish people have a desire for normalcy. That's a point that seems to go over the head of English people. The so called UK is abnormal and I think it's a safe assertion that no other country in the world would willingly enter such an arrangement today. So the fact it comes as some surprise to them that one of the smaller countries in such an arrangement want out is just bizarre.

Then there's the English obsession with the SNP. I think you lot forget who vote for the SNP. Obsession with a referendum is meaningless from the SNP. It's hugely significant to the people of Scotland who vote them into power, by monumental margins, time after time after time after time after time. It's not the SNP who drive independence, it's the people who vote for them. Attributing "the blame" to the SNP is some form of coping mechanism for Gammons who feel like a jilted lover or summin. It should also be noted that the SNP are not the only pro independence party in Scotland. The Greens are pro independence and well represented in the Scottish government, comparitively to the so called UK.

Maybe they should replace the term independence with normalcy, actually.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Tim Shipman’s All out War book about Brexit suggests Cameron was strong armed into the referendum by his back benchers, partly because they felt Cameron had let them down by not demanding Brown hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty when he was leader of the opposition. Secondly because the success of UKIP under Farage as a political insurgency movement along with the defections of Carswell and Reckless to UKIP from the Tories.

Where Cameron really failed was his arrogance to not have Whitehall have anything in place in the event of a leave vote. So that there was a post Brexit future that was baked into the referendum

[mandela8]

As for the SNPs record in government which is also a target from clueless gammons, let's explore that.

Free education
Free prescriptions
Free eye tests
Free dental care up to 25 with free check ups for all
Free public transport for under 23s and job seekers
Free public transport for over 65s
Bedroom tax subsidies
Baby boxes for all new Borns

I could go on and on. Let's not pretend they don't offer a far more socially inclusive dynamic and they do so while being strangled by a budget that represents a significant deficit compared to what Scotland generates...which is, as we all know, the singular reason Westminster are so utterly opposed to losing Scotland, despite their laughable outward assessment.

That said, I haven't voted for the SNP since Salmond left and I'll never vote for them while Sturgeon is in charge. But I can at least be objective in their performance.


Gammons will continue to lament the SNP in their denial but it's not the SNP driving independence. It's the Scots who vote for them (and the Greens).

[Letters]

Most Scottish people have a desire for normalcy.

Urgh. Normalcy. You've been in the States too long.

That's a point that seems to go over the head of English people. The so called UK is abnormal and I think it's a safe assertion that no other country in the world would willingly enter such an arrangement today. So the fact it comes as some surprise to them that one of the smaller countries in such an arrangement want out is just bizarre.

But you don't want out. I mean you singular might, but you plural voted "no thanks". So...

[HCZ_Reborn]

As for the SNPs record in government which is also a target from clueless gammons, let's explore that.

Free education
Free prescriptions
Free eye tests
Free dental care up to 25 with free check ups for all
Free public transport for under 23s and job seekers
Free public transport for over 65s
Bedroom tax subsidies
Baby boxes for all new Borns

I could go on and on. Let's not pretend they don't offer a far more socially inclusive dynamic and they do so while being strangled by a budget that represents a significant deficit compared to what Scotland generates...which is, as we all know, the singular reason Westminster are so utterly opposed to losing Scotland, despite their laughable outward assessment.

That said, I haven't voted for the SNP since Salmond left and I'll never vote for them while Sturgeon is in charge. But I can at least be objective in their performance.


Gammons will continue to lament the SNP in their denial but it's not the SNP driving independence. It's the Scots who vote for them (and the Greens).

Record Drug deaths (including another cousin of mine)

Education and healthcare failure

The constant one upmanship with Westminster in terms of Covid restrictions

The same issue in terms of deaths in care homes due to Covid

Both the SNP and the Scottish Greens embrace the deranged Gender ideology, the Scottish greens have even expelled members for questioning it and even together they don’t quite get to 50% of the electorate and that’s even assuming everyone who votes SNP would vote for independence (the majority will)

The polling has only ever shown a soft lead for independence and at the moment shown more of a small but steady leave for the status quo, so I kind of feel you’re projecting when you talk about what the people of Scotland want.

Plus Alex Salmond? You voted for that cunt when he was leader and are calling other people gammons. The only selling point for Sturgeon is that she isn’t him.

[mandela8]

Urgh. Normalcy. You've been in the States too long.


But you don't want out. I mean you singular might, but you plural voted "no thanks". So...

Well, that's debatable now, I guess. In 2014 they voted No.

It should also be noted that a majority of Scots voted Yes. It was really the 14% (I believe was the number at the time) of the population who are fervent English/br*tish nationalists that swung it towards no with their overwhelming block vote.

Hopefully if there is another vote it's restricted to Scots and EU nationals and it'll be a landslide for Yes. We need to be more ruthless in this regard. Westminster certainly are and this faux nobility, particularly from the SNP, is self defeating.

[mandela8]

Record Drug deaths (including another cousin of mine)

Education and healthcare failure

The constant one upmanship with Westminster in terms of Covid restrictions

The same issue in terms of deaths in care homes due to Covid

Both the SNP and the Scottish Greens embrace the deranged Gender ideology, the Scottish greens have even expelled members for questioning it and even together they don’t quite get to 50% of the electorate and that’s even assuming everyone who votes SNP would vote for independence (the majority will)

The polling has only ever shown a soft lead for independence and at the moment shown more of a small but steady leave for the status quo, so I kind of feel you’re projecting when you talk about what the people of Scotland want.

Plus Alex Salmond? You voted for that cunt when he was leader and are calling other people gammons. The only selling point for Sturgeon is that she isn’t him.

What education and healthcare "failures". Be specific rather than throwing blanket, unsupported statements out there. I've already provided you numerous examples of some of the advantages to both Scottish education (it's free at point of use and you can also add childcare provisions to that) and health (with the holistic approach of universal eye and dental checks).

I fully agree with you on the ridiculous gender politics debate. It's one of many issues I have with both parties. I'd never pretend any party is without issues and this tribal adherence to party politics is a scourge in society. However, for every issue I have with the SNP or Green I could find dozens in the alternative parties. I don't vote for perfection. I vote for the closest to my ideals and that's often a 'least worst' decision.