How many defeats??

[Flavs]

I find it odd Flavs, that you have a problem with Wenger, but not the ownership. Depending upon how they interact with Wenger, they either indulge his 'vision' or he is indulging their desire to run things on a relative shoestring. They also seem to tolerate a situation where there is no obvious challenge to Wengers methods or consequence of a lack of output.

I guess because of the information/decisions level that sits between Usmanov/Krankee and the manager. I just think they are happy to sit and take a dividend while legitimising their monies i would look more to the board for where the of field problem lies, its the Gazidis and PHW types that are holding us back IMO. If you look at Stan's comments last week, and they were probably misquoted but he doesn't seem to have a clue about "Soccer" and that's fine if he has a guy in charge who knows what he is doing but Gazidis? The fact i don't know who Usmanov's representative is sums him up really.

Of course this is al conjecture and hyperbole as none of us, not one, has the foggiest idea how the club is run in the back office, which is a whole other issue.

[Marc Overmars]

We knew that the Invincibles were all about power and counter-attacking speed and accuracy; the Fabregas side was about possession, patient build up, passing triangles and guile from the midfield. With this lot there doesn't really seem to be any method to what we are doing.

this.

We have no method or structure because we bought a shit load of players who had no choice but to go straight in. If we had done business early in the window we could have tried and tested some stuff in pre-season to get the best out of what we have now. Add to that I'm sure many of the existing players were miffed at the high profile departures.

We obviously can't play the way we used to, simply because the ball retention is not of the same standard. Yet we persist with this style of play.

Fergie always manages to re-invent United. Why can't Arsene do it with us?

[Flavs]

I watched the Bolton game before our yesterday and they looked the same as us, the players weren't trying, shit tactics, mentally poor and cant defend. So at least they can keep us company in the championship next season.

The worst thing is that teams will be watching our games, seeing where we are weak and then exploiting it, really not looking forward to the Stoke game and wonder if a loss there will be enough for Wenger to go.

Anyway, good players, fantastic ground, rich, solid business wise, so its not all bad.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

this.

We have no method or structure because we bought a shit load of players who had no choice but to go straight in. If we had done business early in the window we could have tried and tested some stuff in pre-season to get the best out of what we have now. Add to that I'm sure many of the existing players were miffed at the high profile departures.

We obviously can't play the way we used to, simply because the ball retention is not of the same standard. Yet we persist with this style of play.

Fergie always manages to re-invent United. Why can't Arsene do it with us?

Because Fergie is a winner and knows how to win. Unlike Wenger he is mentally Strong and shows no one is bigger then him. He don't wrap his kids in cotton wool he treats them like men and lets them get on with it.

I mean why did Oxo not play yesterday he has the talent and was maybe what we missed fergir would have put him in. Also having a Chairman who cares about the football side of things and leaves the finace side to the owners helps UTD alot. They are ab ambitious club even if its to win the CL where as we'd take finishing 20th if it meant making a huge profit.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I watched the Bolton game before our yesterday and they looked the same as us, the players weren't trying, shit tactics, mentally poor and cant defend. So at least they can keep us company in the championship next season.

The worst thing is that teams will be watching our games, seeing where we are weak and then exploiting it, really not looking forward to the Stoke game and wonder if a loss there will be enough for Wenger to go.

Anyway, good players, fantastic ground, rich, solid business wise, so its not all bad.

Yeah but bolton had an excuse tbh, they were playing a Chelsea side who were going to make a statement to the 2 manchester clubs. We played in a derby where none on our players seemed to care or where up for it.

Where was the fight from this team like we used to see, where was the fight in the media we normally see from a cesc or a TH 14 or a PV4 etc ina derby game. Were like a team who knows its beatern before we go in the pitch.; and when we win even against lower teams we celebrate like its an achievement.

Where is the Pride that we once had, when the feck is some going to stand up and say "DAMIT WE'RE FUCKING ARSENAL LETS DO THIS"

[Fats]

Your right Flavs

We have the players

We have the manager

So what the heck is wrong?

Ill tell you, the manager cant coach or manage. It really is that simple. I hear all the shit that Wenger is a genius!!!!!!!!!!!! Really???? So why is the team playing so shit. The team playing poorly has absolutely nothing to do with the board.

[server too busy!]

Geez check everyone out. Was yesterday really that bad? How easy is it to beat Tottenham at home these days...not at all, yet everyone seems to think we've somehow thrown away another blackburn style 3 pointer.

We played well and were unlucky with both goals. The midfield was a lot better with winning the ball and keeping it, Coquelin looks awesome! I really think Ramsey needs to be dropped as I think a lot of the issues are coming because of him. He lacks creativity and gives the ball away too often. When Wilshire and Vermaelen are back I think we'll see a huge difference.

[Özim]

Wilshire and Vermaelen are back I think we'll see a huge difference.

You're right, only 6 months to wait

[LDG]

I didn't think we were that bad, no.

We lacked someone with some balls though. That was such a tame derby, and all it needed was a battler to take it to them. Something we didn't have.

Scott Parker was man of the match by a mile...quite why Neville Neville's son sought to give it to walker is beyond me.

Arsene should be made to watch videos of his own team from 1997 til 2004 and perhaps it might spark him into life....the passionless part is what is really fucking me of right now.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I didn't think we were that bad, no.

We lacked someone with some balls though. That was such a tame derby, and all it needed was a battler to take it to them. Something we didn't have.

Scott Parker was man of the match by a mile...quite why Neville Neville's son sought to give it to walker is beyond me.

Arsene should be made to watch videos of his own team from 1997 til 2004 and perhaps it might spark him into life....the passionless part is what is really fucking me of right now.

The team needs confidence before it will get its passion back. If the team don't beileve in its manager or fello players why would they have passion.

We played in a derby yesterday and only 1 player Coq looked like he wanted to be there or cared, the rest treated it like a training match.