Match Reaction v Fulham

[Niall_Quinn]

he put up with adebayor, so his experienced with fuck ups, but he is older....

So maybe a string of understanding sighs and the odd chuckle - provided he doesn't get injured laughing.

[Power n Glory]

So if Theo had stayed on an wasted a few more crossing opportunities and run headlong into a few more defenders we would have held out for a win?

Hasn't that been the case over the past few weeks? Wenger made the wrong subs. He got it tactically wrong. The subs didn't help us and we were actually winning the game before the subs and some how lost. Facts are facts. We were still up until we changed our shape. Take your focus off Theo and ask yourself if it was wise to play an aging slow central midfield player to cover Djourou playing at right back? Then to take off Gervinho and play another slow central player to cover young Coqulin at right back.

[Cripps_orig]

Yep Benzema and Goteze pleaseNo chance

We are a mid level club who happen to be in the CL.

The likes of Arteta and and players at his level are our market these days.

The top players will go elsehwere

[Cripps_orig]

Hasn't that been the case over the past few weeks? Wenger made the wrong subs. He got it tactically wrong. The subs didn't help us and we were actually winning the game before the subs and some how lost. Facts are facts. We were still up until we changed our shape. Take your focus off Theo and ask yourself if it was wise to play an aging slow central midfield player to cover Djourou playing at right back? Then to take off Gervinho and play another slow central player to cover young Coqulin at right back.

Blame the board :NQ:

[Niall_Quinn]

Hasn't that been the case over the past few weeks? Wenger made the wrong subs. He got it tactically wrong. The subs didn't help us and we were actually winning the game before the subs and some how lost. Facts are facts. We were still up until we changed our shape. Take your focus off Theo and ask yourself if it was wise to play an aging slow central midfield player to cover Djourou playing at right back? Then to take off Gervinho and play another slow central player to cover young Coqulin at right back.

No, not the wisest move but the alternatives were Arshavin, maybe not the most reliable when you are trying to hold a lead, and Chamakh (nothing needs to be said here). I wonder if Wenger even gave permission for Rosicky to fuck off all over the pitch and completely abandon his defensive duties, that would have been a very strange call.

[Letters]

We are a mid level club who happen to be in the CL.

That doesn't make any sense.
At all.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

No chance

We are a mid level club who happen to be in the CL.The likes of Arteta and and players at his level are our market these days.

The top players will go elsehwere

Yet Dortdmund are world class

[Cripps_orig]

That doesn't make any sense.
At all.It will at the end of the season when we are a mid level club who arent in the CL

[Marc Overmars]

We're not a mid level club, we just happen to be run like one...

[Power n Glory]

No, not the wisest move but the alternatives were Arshavin, maybe not the most reliable when you are trying to hold a lead, and Chamakh (nothing needs to be said here). I wonder if Wenger even gave permission for Rosicky to fuck off all over the pitch and completely abandon his defensive duties, that would have been a very strange call.

He's not a right winger and i don't think Wenger sent him on to bomb up and down the flanks. He came on to help the middle and get possession back from the middle. It just made things worse. Ramsey or Arteta should have made way if he wanted us to control the midfield. The subs just caused confusion and clutter.

[Power n Glory]

Yet Dortdmund are world class

They are Champions in their league. We can't really talk on that front.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

They are Champions in their league. We can't really talk on that front.

Don't watch their league so can't comentate on it, as for seeing them in the cl, they never seemed like a team that would scare the best in europe.

[Niall_Quinn]

He's not a right winger and i don't think Wenger sent him on to bomb up and down the flanks. He came on to help the middle and get possession back from the middle. It just made things worse. Ramsey or Arteta should have made way if he wanted us to control the midfield. The subs just caused confusion and clutter.

There were a few other factors, such as a sending-off, an utterly dodgy ref, general weariness - I posted at the time that Fulham were getting on top and that was before any substitutions. Should never have got to that though, we should have been a couple up by half time but the usual suspects blew it. It's very fair to criticise them for a performance like that, less fair to suggest they were doing anything much to stem the tide. It'll be interesting to rewatch this one.

[Grebbo]

Quite simply awful substitutions from Wenger. He lost us the game.

Wally and Gerv are pretty shit but they have pace to burn and keep Fulham on the back foot. Take them off and Fulham can pile forward.

Sometimes football really is that simple.

[Cripps_orig]

Quite simply awful substitutions from Wenger. He lost us the game.

Wally and Gerv are pretty shit but they have pace to burn and keep Fulham on the back foot. Take them off and Fulham can pile forward.

Sometimes football really is that simple.Summed up 14 pages in that one post

[Niall_Quinn]

In hindsight I agree, it was the removal of our two worst players that lost us the points. The sending off, sub-par performances, goalkeeping mistakes, shitty defending and Fulham FC had nothing to do with the result.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Grebbo gotta an angle there.

But We put ourselves in the position by not getting another goal, this has been happening the last few games, at tje moment Im thinking back as far as the Villa game. . .we go one up and that is tje extent of things, the rest of the match is eiither watching ourselves waste chance after chance or the inevitable leveller and last nights game the clincher for Fulham.

We have lost the ability to be ruthless, the team that never gave up against Chelsea is not taking the field with the same frame of mind. . . .it may be fatigue, I dont know but we gave to understand that we more than other teams perhaps rely a lot on momentum and that is somwthing we have lost.

I say more than other teams because 1) our squad isnt strong enough or at least the players coming on arent 2) we dont have the luxury of losing the odd game like Utd or Citeh. Sure I appreciate games will be lost but we need the first 11 to bury games we go ahead in especially against weaker oppo!
I mean whst did Theo contribute to the game except shoot ridiculously over the bar, waste opportunities to cross or take on his man and although I like Gerv, I level the same criticism at him too.

These players should be taking it up a notch putting RvP in positions to score more not fucking things up and the raising their hands in some half arsed apology.

People maty say Utd lost against BLACKBURN etc but they can, we cant lose games we go ahead in. . .Utd have their battle with Citeh, we have ours to get as high up the table as possible.
I imagine will already be over their loss we need to do the same. . .by rhe time of the next game we need to have grown a pair and start winning again. . .lets see what Wenger can do will additions and possible departures in the squad and move on.

I will say again that I think the overall mental of the team is better, last night aside!, we need to bring in people prepated to battle and get rid of those who think that everything should be served on a plate - a few so called fans could take note of that thought too IMO

[Marc Overmars]

Grebbo gotta an angle there.

But We put ourselves in the position by not getting another goal, this has been happening the last few games, at tje moment Im thinking back as far as the Villa game. . .we go one up and that is tje extent of things, the rest of the match is eiither watching ourselves waste chance after chance or the inevitable leveller and last nights game the clincher for Fulham.

We have lost the ability to be ruthless, the team that never gave up against Chelsea is not taking the field with the same frame of mind. . . .it may be fatigue, I dont know but we gave to understand that we more than other teams perhaps rely a lot on momentum and that is somwthing we have lost.


It's what a lot of us suspected about being over-reliant on RVP, the rest of the attack is being exposed now. RVP hasn't been prolific for the past 5-6 games and the team is now scraping the barrel for goals.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

[QUOTE=Marc Overmars;80952]It's what a lot of us suspected about being over-reliant on RVP, the rest of the attack is being exposed now. RVP hasn't been prolific for the past 5-6 games and the team is now scraping the barrel for goals.[/QUOTE

Enter the King. . .:Thierry Henry: (talk about go from one kind of reliance to another! ! :gulp:)

[hobson's choice]

Gervinho is far from shit, he's problem is finishing, he consistently gets himself in good positions. We just need him to make good on about 20-30 percent of runs great runs he makes. And that's something that can improve, if he's willing to work at it.

Theo on the other hand rarely gets in those positions that Gerv gets into, cause for most part, he still has below average ball skills, he essentially makes the same run every time he gets the ball on the flanks. He' basically on really good in open space off the ball.

[hobson's choice]

Positives so far from this season, we got a damn player in the young man Coquelin, give him that extension.

[fakeyank]

There really is one person to blame- AW! What does he tell the team at HT? What goes on in the dressing room? Even in the under 18's, we were told that if we are holding a lead and the opposition is on top, to roll on the ground and slow the game down.. RVP seems like a good captain off the field and a great player but I'd like him go to one or two of those cunts and bitch slap them to give in some extra effort for the last few minutes!

Isnt our team built around the philosophy that we like it when the other team plays open. That falls into our hands... I understand teams like Utd, Barca, Madrid beating us at our own game but FFS this is Fulham!! We looked like relegation fodder who got a fluke goal holding onto dear life. We need some real motivators in the dressing room and the main man- AW is a total failure in that department. Bring on MON!

[Flavs]

I literally cant put into words how fucked off I am at this loss

[-Xs-]

I literally cant put into words how fucked off I am at this loss

Me too, but do we take solace from the fact that we have come to expect this shit? Or does that make it worse?

[Power n Glory]

All this talk about our attackers....two of them came off and we still couldn't control the game even though they are supposed to be better technical players.

That Rambo and Arteta combo needs to be looked into. Our possession has been shit for a while and it stems from that combo. Fulham were running right through us and we were soon overwhelmed.

[Flavs]

Me too, but do we take solace from the fact that we have come to expect this shit? Or does that make it worse?

I guess there are 2 ways of looking at it as there so often is.

1. Aside from a wank referee and some extraordinary goalkeeping we would have won by 3 or 4 clear goals. No need to be downhearted we are tired and now have the best part of 2 weeks off while the transfer window is open to get some full backs who we miss badly in/fit and things we be so much better in our next league game.

2. Its a fucking disgrace when we cant hit a cows arse with a banjo, some players just stand out as shite others have the ability but seemingly no desire. If the players are knackered rotate and start with ones who aren't, why is Arshavin and the Ox not playing on the wings? Why is RvP playing when Chamakh could have started. Why didnt we rush henry's loan though and get him a game in this? Why send Frimpong out on loan when its clear that Songtetamsey are all out on their feet? Why cant we shoot straight? What is the point in per meatpacker? Djorou? and so on

[Letters]

There really is one person to blame- AW!

And yet you give him no credit for our good run which has seen us recover from our awful start and get into contention for the top 4.

:shrug:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Not just for that. Hes always got a mistake in him. Just cos not every mistake leads to a goal doesnt mean its not a mistake and today its cost us. Hes a good keeper but id prefer a world class keeper in. Maybe not this month as Chesney will be fine til the end of the season but in the summer, the team needs a major overhaul. Thats been said a few times over the years

I simply don't take you seriously anymore. I reckon you're attracted to men (there is nothing wrong with that) and you're opinion on players is based on how sexy you find them.

And quite frankly, your taste in men is about as good as your taste in TV and music.

[Letters]

:haha:

Edit: what do you mean 'anymore', you ever did?

[LDG]

There really is one person to blame- AW! What does he tell the team at HT? What goes on in the dressing room? Even in the under 18's, we were told that if we are holding a lead and the opposition is on top, to roll on the ground and slow the game down.. RVP seems like a good captain off the field and a great player but I'd like him go to one or two of those cunts and bitch slap them to give in some extra effort for the last few minutes!

Isnt our team built around the philosophy that we like it when the other team plays open. That falls into our hands... I understand teams like Utd, Barca, Madrid beating us at our own game but FFS this is Fulham!! We looked like relegation fodder who got a fluke goal holding onto dear life. We need some real motivators in the dressing room and the main man- AW is a total failure in that department. Bring on MON!

Lol.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Sack the board and I want to move back to the old stadium!

:lol:

[fakeyank]

And yet you give him no credit for our good run which has seen us recover from our awful start and get into contention for the top 4.

:shrug:

My previous posts in other threads, I give him credit for doing a commendable job.. Also, we had our bad start coz of AW and his 'waiting period'. Its like he pushes you in a well and when he pulls you out, you should be thankful to him! :unsure:

He dug the hole we are in right now! He is the one not playing OAC, Park or even putting them on the bench. Its not that they looked like deer in headlights when they have started! Why did we buy them?

I have made peace with the fact that Arsene is going to stay till the end of the season but the thought of him being manager next season makes me sick to my stomach!

[fakeyank]

I simply don't take you seriously anymore. I reckon you're attracted to men (there is nothing wrong with that) and you're opinion on players is based on how sexy you find them.

And quite frankly, your taste in men is about as good as your taste in TV and music.

:haha:

:haha:

I have tears in my eyes.. :haha:

[Letters]

My previous posts in other threads, I give him credit for doing a commendable job.

I must have missed those.

[RomfordPele]

Quite simply awful substitutions from Wenger. He lost us the game.

Wally and Gerv are pretty shit but they have pace to burn and keep Fulham on the back foot. Take them off and Fulham can pile forward.

Sometimes football really is that simple.

Yep, and yet he does it all the fucking time - takes all our pace off when we're 1 up. He never learns. I'm still fuming this morning.

[LDG]

Bit of objectivity here I think.

Utd dropped points over the weekend, as did Chelsea, as did City etc. All against teams you'd expect them to beat.

I know we're not as good as we could be. We all know this, and we all know that we need additions to the squad in the right areas. But this constant bullshit coming out whenever we don't get three points is fucking childish.

We know Walcott is not producing. We know Gervinho has lost what he had at the start. We know RVP can't do it all on his own. We know Arshavin has gone missing. We know Chamakh isn't the answer. Nobody knows why AOC isn't playing.

But. We also know that, we've had a horrific amount of bad luck defensively. Djourou, Vermaelen, Gibbs, Koscielny, Coqualin, Santos, Sagna, Jenkinson have all had to do a shift at fullback. To lose all four of our fullbacks, and then lose the stand-ins is fucking terrible luck.

Let's not forget that we're missing Jack too. I mean, come on, any team is going to miss that kind of player. Arteta as back up for Jack, or Ransey as back up for Jack doesn't sound that bad does it? Or do we have to have someone with an expensive price tag?? Mata....good little player....Chelsea, practically where we are in the league....go figure.

We also know that this team has dragged us back from the abyss to a relatively (in terms of where we were) good position in the league.

I don't buy that "Arteta is shit" or "Ramsey is shit" or that "Gervinho is shit". Because they clearly aren't. And many of the new additions have added so much more to a team bereft of confidence, bottle and will to play for the team (and not just money).

This "first 11" up top has been overplayed IMO. And we need to address the issue of back up. January spending is a must.

That said. For professionals like Arshavin (a clearly gifted player), we should be able to rely on him comfortably as back up. So we can't just point fingers and say, we don't have good players in reserve, because cunts like him, SHOULD be MORE than adequate coming off the bench. But you can't predict that before a season starts. He could have been magic....then we'd have shitloads of overpaid wingers in the team (sorry Theo, didn't mean you, bless...80k, fuck off you little shite).

Questions need to be asked of AW regarding Park and AOC. Why buy if we don't play them? We need players who can play...not for "the future". We need players who can get us back into contention NOW. Therefore, I hope that this is addressed very quickly. Either by buying, or by playing the players we've already waged cash on.

Looking at the other teams above us. I don't see one team that scares me. I think with some additions, we could actually haul ourselves into second by the end of the season. I'm not looking through rose-tinted glasses. I just see 4 teams who aren't as good as people think they are. We're not that great, but with a few shrewd signings, and the RIGHT signings, we could be a real threat to those above us.

[fakeyank]

I must have missed those.

You did. Also remember the word commendable, I did not go out and sing his praises. I mentioned how the players look like they are playing for the shirt and AW seems to be on the right path and we need a few players to make this a better unit.

[dazthegooner]

I blame my mates misses for our defeat we were listening to the match on the radio and at the time we were winning but she decided that she wanted to watch Emmerdale and when it had finished we had lost so its her fault.... :sulk:

[LDG]

You did. Also remember the word commendable, I did not go out and sing his praises. I mentioned how the players look like they are playing for the shirt and AW seems to be on the right path and we need a few players to make this a better unit.

Spot on.

And we haven't been able to get these "few players" until now. Because we couldn't sign anyone.

If AW is to blam for yesterday, it is because of the tactical decisions he made (so I hear). Players of the calibre we had on the pitch should have been more than adequte to see off Fulham.

But when you have the likes of Arshavin et al off form and not performing when you need them, and a horrific deficit at fullback, you can see why the first 11 we've relied on might be a little "in the red zone" after playing 2 games in 3 days, having pulled us back tirelessly from 18th spot.

[Flavs]

I don't buy that "Gervinho is shit".

I think he is doping very well for his first season in the EPL to be honest, his pace and dribbling are a constant worry for the other team and he can beat his man pretty much every time he gets the ball. The two drawbacks are that his decision making is still catching up with him and that we dont give him the ball in the fables "areas of greatest productivity" enough.

Lets face it, he is at least as good as Walcott and he has been in the EPL for many many years.

[Flavs]

I still think we should have rotated as much as possible yesterday.

The defence and keeper the same due to lack of choice but the others? Can anyone seriously think that this


-------------------bguiyb1chjcbnc--------------

-The Gay Lion----Meatpacker---Bart-----Miguel----

------Benayoun-------Rosicky------Le Coq-----

--Arshavin------------------------------The Ox----

-------------------Schmuck----------------


Couldnt have got a result at Fulham? Cos if we don't then we need to do some deck clearing and spending

[LDG]

I think he is doping very well for his first season in the EPL to be honest, his pace and dribbling are a constant worry for the other team and he can beat his man pretty much every time he gets the ball. The two drawbacks are that his decision making is still catching up with him and that we dont give him the ball in the fables "areas of greatest productivity" enough.

Lets face it, he is at least as good as Walcott and he has been in the EPL for many many years.

http://www.themoviescene.co.uk/reviews/_img/1197-3.jpg

[Flavs]

http://www.themoviescene.co.uk/reviews/_img/1197-3.jpg

:unsure:

[Grebbo]

I still think we should have rotated as much as possible yesterday.

The defence and keeper the same due to lack of choice but the others? Can anyone seriously think that this


-------------------bguiyb1chjcbnc--------------

-The Gay Lion----Meatpacker---Bart-----Miguel----

------Benayoun-------Rosicky------Le Coq-----

--Arshavin------------------------------The Ox----

-------------------Schmuck----------------


Couldnt have got a result at Fulham? Cos if we don't then we need to do some deck clearing and spending

No point talking about Ox. Has he made any Prem appearances so far?

Wenger hasn't bedded him ( ## ) into the first team at all so he's not gonna be ready to start away to Fulham.

Wenger obviously has no faith in our squad at all to have rotated so little.

[selassie]

My previous posts in other threads, I give him credit for doing a commendable job.. Also, we had our bad start coz of AW and his 'waiting period'. Its like he pushes you in a well and when he pulls you out, you should be thankful to him! :unsure:

He dug the hole we are in right now! He is the one not playing OAC, Park or even putting them on the bench. Its not that they looked like deer in headlights when they have started! Why did we buy them?

I have made peace with the fact that Arsene is going to stay till the end of the season but the thought of him being manager next season makes me sick to my stomach!

The part I've highlighted is a Brilliant analogy and exactly how I feel about Arsene.

On here we're forever giving Arsene the benefit of the doubt saying that things will come good eventually. It's not even about trophies for me, it hasn't been for a number of years, for me it's about the manager using his resources to the maximum and pushing the team/squad as far as he can. I absolutely do not believe he's doing this, or at least not in a pragmatic/I'll win at all costs way. Look I'm not saying we should spend like Citeh or Chelsea or radically change the way we do things, I just want us to be more proactive and not reactive when it comes to the playing squad. There are other things I could mention but I don't want this post to go the way of a "Arsene out" Thread as that is a separate discussion IMHO.

[Letters]

I think he is doping very well for his first season in the EPL to be honest, his pace and dribbling are a constant worry for the other team and he can beat his man pretty much every time he gets the ball. The two drawbacks are that his decision making is still catching up with him and that we dont give him the ball in the fables "areas of greatest productivity" enough.

Lets face it, he is at least as good as Walcott and he has been in the EPL for many many years.

I think all that is true, the trouble is Walcott was a kid when we bought him and while horribly over-hyped is now getting to the sort of age where he should be delivering. And he isn't, or not consistently anyway. Gervinho was bought as the finished product and while he clearly has some skill his decision making and shooting are awful. It's a worry if this was our big summer signing.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Just sounds like sour grapes

Nah just think he is pissed we are not get many blatant decisions. Though yesterday we only had ourselves to blame.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

No point talking about Ox. Has he made any Prem appearances so far?

Wenger hasn't bedded him ( ## ) into the first team at all so he's not gonna be ready to start away to Fulham.

Wenger obviously has no faith in our squad at all to have rotated so little.

Well he must do if he is not going to spend like a few have pointed out. Only wenger knows why Ox and Park and not playing as strange as it is.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The part I've highlighted is a Brilliant analogy and exactly how I feel about Arsene.

On here we're forever giving Arsene the benefit of the doubt saying that things will come good eventually. It's not even about trophies for me, it hasn't been for a number of years, for me it's about the manager using his resources to the maximum and pushing the team/squad as far as he can. I absolutely do not believe he's doing this, or at least not in a pragmatic/I'll win at all costs way. Look I'm not saying we should spend like Citeh or Chelsea or radically change the way we do things, I just want us to be more proactive and not reactive when it comes to the playing squad. There are other things I could mention but I don't want this post to go the way of a "Arsene out" Thread as that is a separate discussion IMHO.


Maybe he has been, no one knows really hows much the board relasing to him every season and we never will. Its easy to say he is tight, cheap etc but truth is we will never know.

pushing the sqaud to the limit he has done that for the sqauds he has had, they are only as good as they are.

[selassie]

Nah just think he is pissed we are not get many blatant decisions. Though yesterday we only had ourselves to blame.

Yep, I think the refs have been quite harsh on us this season regarding Penalty decisions. IIRC We've been denied 3 stonewall penalties this season where the replays have proved conclusive.

[selassie]

Maybe he has been, no one knows really hows much the board relasing to him every season and we never will. Its easy to say he is tight, cheap etc but truth is we will never know.

pushing the sqaud to the limit he has done that for the sqauds he has had, they are only as good as they are.

Even if he hasn't been released large funds his planning & management of the playing squad is extremely poor IMHO. I just don't understand his priorities when he spends close to 17million pounds in the summer on 2 players who have been pretty much surplus to requirements this season.

This in itself tells us it's got nothing to do with finances and more to do with priorities.

[Ollie the Optimist]

thought we were brilliant in the first half but for the love of god we need someone to put that ball in the fucking net. how many chances do we need? its good henry is back as he knows how to stick a fucking ball in the net.

move on though, crap game, crap result, lets just move on and beat leeds.


though on another note, not blaming the ref for the defeat but he was fucking awful. seriously what do we need to do to get a fucking penalty these days. qpr and yesterday we get denied two stonewall penalties. its getting beyond a joke now, the ref in the first half was fucking awful.

[Ollie the Optimist]

though on another note, am glad frimpong has gone on loan because it means coqulain is now first choice backup to song. this guy looks something special, thrown in four times this season in the real deep end, united, scum, villa at rb, fulham at lb and has given a brilliant performace in three of those games. says something about his maturity that when really needed he is called on not frimpong. this kid looks brilliant, though when we have miquel, why was he even playing?

[Letters]

thought we were brilliant in the first half but for the love of god we need someone to put that ball in the fucking net. how many chances do we need? its good henry is back as he knows how to stick a fucking ball in the net.

move on though, crap game, crap result, lets just move on and beat leeds.

though on another note, not blaming the ref for the defeat but he was fucking awful. seriously what do we need to do to get a fucking penalty these days. qpr and yesterday we get denied two stonewall penalties. its getting beyond a joke now, the ref in the first half was fucking awful.

You need a thesaurus

[Flavs]

You need a thesaurus or any kind of dinosaur

[LDG]

or any kind of dinosaur

Coney :bow:

[Coney]

thought we were brilliant in the first half but for the love of god we need someone to put that ball in the fucking net. how many chances do we need? its good henry is back as he knows how to stick a fucking ball in the net.

move on though, crap game, crap result, lets just move on and beat leeds.


though on another note, not blaming the ref for the defeat but he was fucking awful. seriously what do we need to do to get a fucking penalty these days. qpr and yesterday we get denied two stonewall penalties. its getting beyond a joke now, the ref in the first half was fucking awful.


You need a thesaurus

Too fucking right. :good:

[Cripps_orig]

I simply don't take you seriously anymore. I reckon you're attracted to men (there is nothing wrong with that) and you're opinion on players is based on how sexy you find them.

And quite frankly, your taste in men is about as good as your taste in TV and music. Grow up :good:

[Niall_Quinn]

Grow up :good:

Give us a kiss!

[Cripps_orig]

Maybe he has been, no one knows really hows much the board relasing to him every season and we never will. Its easy to say he is tight, cheap etc but truth is we will never know.

pushing the sqaud to the limit he has done that for the sqauds he has had, they are only as good as they are.Wenger said if he was handed £100m, he'd give it back.

Lack of spending on quality players is down to him and him alone

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger said if he was handed £100m, he'd give it back.

Lack of spending on quality players is down to him and him alone

Course it is - no doubt. We know this because PHW is in the papers every week calling Wenger a shit for not spending money.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Please dont tell me this is going to turn into a blame Wenger, blame the board thread!

This result is perfect for the haters. . .lets move on. . .we are not as shit as some make out, far from it but we are at least a couple of players from being a real threat

[Cripps_orig]

Course it is - no doubt. We know this because PHW is in the papers every week calling Wenger a shit for not spending money.No but he or Gazidis have said there is money to spend at the start of every transfer window.

Wenger doesnt spend it.

Whose fault is that?

[selassie]

Please dont tell me this is going to turn into a blame Wenger, blame the board thread!

This result is perfect for the haters. . .lets move on. . .we are not as shit as some make out, far from it but we are at least a couple of players from being a real threat

Well Wenger & to a lesser extent the board are responsible for the squad we have at present, it's not bad...but could be better.

None of this is about hating, it's about calling out what's wrong with certain aspects of the management of the team. I had been extremely pleased with our form up until the Xmas period and think Arsene has done a good job to turn around what was increasingly looking like a disastrous season. But I've always had doubts in my mind about the durability of this team.

There are plenty of positives to take from the season so far just like there are negatives.

[LDG]

No but he or Gazidis have said there is money to spend at the start of every transfer window.

Wenger doesnt spend it.

Whose fault is that?

Gervinho's obviously :doh:

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'll keep an eye out as I'm in the dinosaur section of the Natural History Museum

[Cripps_orig]

Gervinho's obviously :doh:He needs to get the money for his forehead implants somewhere i suppose

[LDG]

I'll keep an eye out as I'm in the dinosaur section of the Natural History Museum

No fucking way!!!

[Niall_Quinn]

I'll keep an eye out as I'm in the dinosaur section of the Natural History Museum

Say hi to PHW!

[Xhaka Can’t]

If someone gave me one hundred billion dollars, I'd give it back.

[Kano]

If someone gave me one hundred billion dollars, I'd give it back.
silly move.
personally i'd carve out an underground cave like chamber, filled with the latest hi tech gadgets, create an almost indestructible suit and fight crime between the hours of 8pm and 4am.

[LDG]

silly move.
personally i'd carve out an underground cave like chamber, filled with the latest hi tech gadgets, create an almost indestructible suit and fight crime between the hours of 8pm and 4am.

Hey! You'll put me out of business! :angry:

[Kano]

we can work on a timetable to suit both parties

it's the law that matters here










bagses the night shift

[LDG]

Joker :rose:

[Niall_Quinn]

If someone gave me one hundred billion dollars, I'd give it back.

Well it just so happens I have a hundred billion going spare, I'm going to announce in the press I'll be giving it to you.

PS. I don't really have a hundred billion, but I'm still doing the press conference if that's okay? I'll give you six million quid if you play along.

[Niall_Quinn]

Joker :rose:

One of the more notorious baddies our two super heroes will be facing off against, no doubt.

[GP]

One of the more notorious baddies our two super heroes will be facing off against, no doubt.

Fatman and Robin?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZAkzP6zEx6s/TNO54aHNz9I/AAAAAAAAATM/wMTXqV1mbZ4/s1600/arshavin_van_persie_05nov20.jpg

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wenger said if he was handed £100m, he'd give it back.Lack of spending on quality players is down to him and him alone

means nothing at all. If he had no choice but to face the sack or spend it, he'd spend it end off.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Even if he hasn't been released large funds his planning & management of the playing squad is extremely poor IMHO. I just don't understand his priorities when he spends close to 17million pounds in the summer on 2 players who have been pretty much surplus to requirements this season.

This in itself tells us it's got nothing to do with finances and more to do with priorities.

Like i said only Wenger and the board really know whats really going on, We will never see AW take tackle the board while they employ him or them attack him(in pubilc anyway) its not their style.

someone said bring in MON or who ever do they really believe things will change with the regime still in place because one manager has left.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

One of the more notorious baddies our two super heroes will be facing off against, no doubt.

Have be careful of his 'moan a laser' ー turns all positive things into negative

[Niall_Quinn]

means nothing at all. If he had no choice but to face the sack or spend it, he'd spend it end off.

Means everything. The board has been desperate for Wenger to spend but finally they lost patience and cashed in their shares for over £500mill (having invested nothing), they were also forced to divert cash Wenger refused to spend on the team into property deals (because all footie clubs should also be estate agents) and they were so angry at him they signed laughable sponsorship deals to reluctantly ensure their exit strategy proceeded at all costs. What Wenger has done to these guys (and the fans) is unforgivable. I really feel for them and the only positive note is they get to stay on fat salaries while they remind us Wenger has all this money to spend. If they weren't such nice guys they could have sacked him for refusing to spend on the team. But that's not them. They aren't that kind of greedy, traitorous bastard.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Means everything. The board has been desperate for Wenger to spend but finally they lost patience and cashed in their shares for over £500mill (having invested nothing), they were also forced to divert cash Wenger refused to spend on the team into property deals (because all footie clubs should also be estate agents) and they were so angry at him they signed laughable sponsorship deals to reluctantly ensure their exit strategy proceeded at all costs. What Wenger has done to these guys (and the fans) is unforgivable. I really feel for them and the only positive note is they get to stay on fat salaries while they remind us Wenger has all this money to spend. If they weren't such nice guys they could have sacked him for refusing to spend on the team. But that's not them. They aren't that kind of greedy, traitorous bastard.

Wenger out tbh

[Cripps_orig]

Wenger out tbhBest thing you've ever posted.

Spelling wise as well

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Best thing you've ever posted.

Spelling wise as well


Thanks

[Xhaka Can’t]

Well it just so happens I have a hundred billion going spare, I'm going to announce in the press I'll be giving it to you.

PS. I don't really have a hundred billion, but I'm still doing the press conference if that's okay? I'll give you six million quid if you play along.

Only if you let me treat the Board like ma bitches.

[Niall_Quinn]

Only if you let me treat the Board like ma bitches.

Just tell me how high.

[Cripps_orig]

Wenger wont be charged by the FA

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger wont be charged by the FA

Guess even they could see that ref was a pile of shite.

[Özim]

It's a shame ******* doesn't bitch at the players as much as he does to the press after all if they'd put their chances away and not made mistakes they'd have won and none of this would matter.

[Letters]

It's a shame ******* doesn't bitch at the players as much as he does to the press after all if they'd put their chances away and not made mistakes they'd have won and none of this would matter.

:lol:

:console:

[Özim]

:lol:

:console:
:lol: I think it's funny too!

[LDG]

Meh. Every manager in the league moans about refs after a defeat. It's not exclusive.

He cocked up with his tactics though. And it's clear we need an injection of freshness into a tired team.

[Kano]

Meh. Every manager in the league moans about refs after a defeat. It's not exclusive.

He cocked up with his tactics though. And it's clear we need an injection of freshness into a tired team.

i disagree. the point of dropping gerv and walcott was to try and retain the ball with benny and rosicky, a tactic that has worked in the past.

the problem was, we weren't getting the ball back to retain it, which was the main problem.

keeping gerv and walcott on is fine if they were doing something with the ball but i don't see the point of keeping them on if their final balls were useless and gave the ball to fulham anyway.

[Coney]

It's a shame ******* doesn't bitch at the players as much as he does to the press after all if they'd put their chances away and not made mistakes they'd have won and none of this would matter.

You work at the training ground?

How on earth do you know what he says to the players behind closed doors? Just because he is not the kind of asshole that criticises his players in public does not mean he does not criticise them later.

[Letters]

Some people on here claim to have way more knowledge about what goes on inside the club than they actually do have.
We can all infer things from what we do see but they're educated guesses at best.

[LDG]

No. Everything I say is right, tbf.

[Letters]

No. Everything I say is right, tbf.

Even the stuff which contradicts the other stuff.

You :bow:

[LDG]

Even the stuff which contradicts the other stuff.

You :bow:

:ninja:

[Coney]

Some people on here claim to have way more knowledge about what goes on inside the club than they actually do have.
We can all infer things from what we do see but they're educated guesses at best.

Some make educated guesses based on some evidence or reasoned argument. Others just spout forth with zero backup evidence or reasoning. But we know who they are - the evidence is all over GW. :good:

[Coney]

Even the stuff which contradicts the other stuff.

You :bow:
That's knocked the stuffing out of him.

[Power n Glory]

i disagree. the point of dropping gerv and walcott was to try and retain the ball with benny and rosicky, a tactic that has worked in the past.

the problem was, we weren't getting the ball back to retain it, which was the main problem.

keeping gerv and walcott on is fine if they were doing something with the ball but i don't see the point of keeping them on if their final balls were useless and gave the ball to fulham anyway.

He still got his tactics wrong. We were leading before they went off and then lost the game with major incidents coming from Fulham attacking the flanks. We were struggling but after the subs it was worse and we were playing in our own half. He got it wrong.

[Niall_Quinn]

He still got his tactics wrong. We were leading before they went off and then lost the game with major incidents coming from Fulham attacking the flanks. We were struggling but after the subs it was worse and we were playing in our own half. He got it wrong.

And we had a player sent off, of course.

[Power n Glory]

And we had a player sent off, of course.

Yeah, they attacked our right side while Rosicky was roaming all over the pith and not covering.

[Özim]

You work at the training ground?

How on earth do you know what he says to the players behind closed doors? Just because he is not the kind of asshole that criticises his players in public does not mean he does not criticise them later.
Poor discipline, slacking on the pitch and former players praising uncle Arsene for being so good to them would suggest the bloke is soft touch, so would the way he points to everything but his team when things go wrong.

I've long accepted the guy has lost it and doesn't know how to put his players in their place.

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://images.brisbanetimes.com.au/2011/12/28/2862807/ipad-art-wide-598621859-420x0.jpg

The Zimm family celebrate Christmas.

[Fats]

After giving it a few days to reflect

The whole game was decided on awful decisions by our manager.

How can he be called world class. The decisions he made do not make sense if he wants to win games. Far far too negative with poor subs and poor formations.

Im not having accepting any excuses Wenger makes, in fact I now make a point of not watching his post game interviews.

Martin Jol outwitted him, Martin FUCKING JOL!!!!!! REALLY!!!!

We all know we are a few games away from shitness and a bad run. This IMO will now convince RVP that this will never work with this tactically inept man cannot manage a team that are capable of winning significant silverware or compete at a high level.

Said it for years that Wenger is an exeptional coach but no manager in this day and age. His failings are for all to witness.

[Niall_Quinn]

Poor discipline, slacking on the pitch and former players praising uncle Arsene for being so good to them would suggest the bloke is soft touch, so would the way he points to everything but his team when things go wrong.

I've long accepted the guy has lost it and doesn't know how to put his players in their place.

Agreed, the guy is as bad as every other manager.

[KSE Comedy Club]

The first sub was easy as fuck tbh, yet wenger got that wrong.

Miquel for djo, moved to lb and coq over to rb. Simple.

He even admitted after the game that he could see that djourou would be a target for fulham, yet he left him on te pitch!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wenger wont be charged by the FA

why should he have been did nothing wrong.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Agreed, the guy is as bad as every other manager.

:gp:

[Cripps_orig]

For being a shit manager apparently

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The first sub was easy as fuck tbh, yet wenger got that wrong.

Miquel for djo, moved to lb and coq over to rb. Simple.

He even admitted after the game that he could see that djourou would be a target for fulham, yet he left him on te pitch!

There was no cover for him that was the problem, even miquel would have struggled in that game tbf. Wenger went with exprience and got it wrong.

this is what happens when you have all these injurys in defence.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:lol:

:console:

Hates gonna hate tbf and zim gonna be zim. anything to have a pop

[Kano]

He still got his tactics wrong. We were leading before they went off and then lost the game with major incidents coming from Fulham attacking the flanks. We were struggling but after the subs it was worse and we were playing in our own half. He got it wrong.

so trying to retain the ball was the wrong tactic?

[Letters]

I don't.

Exactly.

[Power n Glory]

so trying to retain the ball was the wrong tactic?

You tell me. Are you saying he got it right? We were up 1-0 and lost 2-1. What does that tell you?

[Xhaka Can’t]

You tell me. Are you saying he got it right? We were up 1-0 and lost 2-1. What does that tell you?

The final score?

edit: Also that it was once 1-0.

[Power n Glory]

The final score?

:lol: You may need an early night.

[KSE Comedy Club]

There was no cover for him that was the problem, even miquel would have struggled in that game tbf. Wenger went with exprience and got it wrong. this is what happens when you have all these injurys in defence. Yet he was happy to bring on miquel against Citeh?

Sorry but that doesn't wash with me.

[Letters]

You tell me. Are you saying he got it right? We were up 1-0 and lost 2-1. What does that tell you?

:doh:

[Niall_Quinn]

You tell me. Are you saying he got it right? We were up 1-0 and lost 2-1. What does that tell you?

That we had a player sent off.

[Power n Glory]

Great contribution Letters. If your going to WUM take it somewhere else cause you know I ain't got time for your bullshit.

Gervinho and Walcott were shit on attack, but you can't forget about how hard they work down the flanks and how they cover. Taking them off for two central players that were free to roam opened up the flanks and Fulham had more space. Just look at the goals and incidents involving the cards.

[Cripps_orig]

Letters WUMming?

Never.

Only we do that...

[Niall_Quinn]

Letters WUMming?

Never.

Only we do that...

True.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yet he was happy to bring on miquel against Citeh?Sorry but that doesn't wash with me.

and look what happend there we go 1-0 down.

Miquel coming on against fulham was not going to stop the fulham attacks.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You tell me. Are you saying he got it right? We were up 1-0 and lost 2-1. What does that tell you?

Fulham kept going and worked hard, even with theo and gev on we'd still have lost that game most probs as in the 2nd half we were poor.

[Kano]

You tell me. Are you saying he got it right? We were up 1-0 and lost 2-1. What does that tell you?

well no i'm asking you because you are the one questioning what happened, so spill the beans.

[KSE Comedy Club]

and look what happend there we go 1-0 down. Miquel coming on against fulham was not going to stop the fulham attacks. Clearly you didn't follow that game then because miquel wasn't at fault for that goal, it was vermaelen I think.

Also by the same logic squid wasn't going to stop them either and yet he came on.

[Power n Glory]

well no i'm asking you because you are the one questioning what happened, so spill the beans.

You're the one saying Wenger got his tactics right. I'm asking how so since we lost the game as soon as he made those subs.

I've said my piece. If playing for possession was the right strategy then why didn't it work and how comes our possession stats grew worse?

[Niall_Quinn]

You're the one saying Wenger got his tactics right. I'm asking how so since we lost the game as soon as he made those subs.

I've said my piece. If playing for possession was the right strategy then why didn't it work and how comes our possession stats grew worse?

Had a player sent off?

[Dennis Bendtner]

People are confusing tactical ideas with tactical success. If he tried something and it didn't work out, it doesn't mean the idea was wrong.

[Power n Glory]

Had a player sent off?

And you don't think Rosicky having a free role had anything to do with those bookings and Fulham Riise being free to just bomb forwards without worrying about defending?

[Niall_Quinn]

And you don't think Rosicky having a free role had anything to do with those bookings and Fulham Riise being free to just bomb forwards without worrying about defending?

Could be, but probably not as much as being a man down considering we didn't concede until JD went off. At least that's the most likely explanation.

[Kano]

You're the one saying Wenger got his tactics right. I'm asking how so since we lost the game as soon as he made those subs.

I've said my piece. If playing for possession was the right strategy then why didn't it work and how comes our possession stats grew worse?
let's be clear. as you have noted yourself, we were under the cosh way before the sending off, which was down to lack of ball retention in the middle and going forward out wide.

you suggest that taking off our 'out balls' to gerv and walcott irreparably damaged our chances of seeing out the game from a winning position, yet losing those two players had no effect on how threatening fulham were becoming.

you mentioned above that once dj had come off, rosicky wasn't offering enough cover which was right but that is down to bad positioning by the player, i'm sure it wasn't wengers idea to send him on to offer more space for fulham. we lost the game because our first teamers need freshening up, through fulham taking full advantage of our full back situation and the wrong decisions from outfield players.

[Power n Glory]

let's be clear. as you have noted yourself, we were under the cosh way before the sending off, which was down to lack of ball retention in the middle and going forward out wide.

you suggest that taking off our 'out balls' to gerv and walcott irreparably damaged our chances of seeing out the game from a winning position, yet losing those two players had no effect on how threatening fulham were becoming.

you mentioned above that once dj had come off, rosicky wasn't offering enough cover which was right but that is down to bad positioning by the player, i'm sure it wasn't wengers idea to send him on to offer more space for fulham. we lost the game because our first teamers need freshening up, through fulham taking full advantage of our full back situation and the wrong decisions from outfield players.

So Wenger sent Rosicky on without giving instructions? Without telling him to protect Djourou? He sent on a central midfield player for Walcott in an attempt to win back the ball because the centre couldn't cope. Wenger likes his players to flow and interchange. I don't think Rosicky came on to disobey orders. It also didn't help that he brought on Yossi, another central player. Wenger wanted to gain control on the middle but we sacrificed a lot on the flanks and we couldn't win back possession either way. He'd have been better off taking off Ramsey and Arteta since their legs were gone and they couldn't pass.

We were struggling for a while, but the game flipped and we were defending in our own half for a while after the subs. Then we pick up the red card.

[Kano]

So Wenger sent Rosicky on without giving instructions? Without telling him to protect Djourou? He sent on a central midfield player for Walcott in an attempt to win back the ball because the centre couldn't cope. Wenger likes his players to flow and interchange. I don't think Rosicky came on to disobey orders. It also didn't help that he brought on Yossi, another central player. Wenger wanted to gain control on the middle but we sacrificed a lot on the flanks and we couldn't win back possession either way. He'd have been better off taking off Ramsey and Arteta since their legs were gone and they couldn't pass.

We were struggling for a while, but the game flipped and we were defending in our own half for a while after the subs. Then we pick up the red card.

not sure how you get the idea i think he sent him on without instructions. i said i'm sure he wasn't sent on with a free role to enable fulham more space. i dont disagree with those sequence of events, that was clear for all to see but check out rosickys passes during his time on the pitch and where 95% took place, it's clear he wasn't playing a free role through the centre. the reason more pressure fell onto dj was because fulham knew what a weak spot he was seeing as already had a yellow and obviously isn't a full back, so a prime target for any smart side. ruiz was also testing the shit out of young coq - which is also the side both goals were crossed from.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Look, I see what you are saying. I think the only mistake was in taking both of them off in that respect.

As soon as Djorou got his first booking - the writing was on the wall for him and it had nothing to do with the substitutions - it's Djorou we're talking about here, and had it not been for a freakish number of injuries amongst the back line, we would not be talking about him, because he'd be at home toasting the new year.

[Kano]

Look, I see what you are saying. I think the only mistake was in taking both of them off in that respect.

As soon as Djorou got his first booking - the writing was on the wall for him and it had nothing to do with the substitutions - it's Djorou we're talking about here, and had it not been for a freakish number of injuries amongst the back line, we would not be talking about him, because he'd be at home toasting the new year.
exactly and there's no escaping that he screwed up, particularly with the first reckless yellow that was totally uncalled for. i think the second was far more instinctive when in a short intense sprint with someone trying to keep up but he deserved the red and fulham the victory.

[Power n Glory]

not sure how you get the idea i think he sent him on without instructions. i said i'm sure he wasn't sent on with a free role to enable fulham more space. i dont disagree with those sequence of events, that was clear for all to see but check out rosickys passes during his time on the pitch and where 95% took place, it's clear he wasn't playing a free role through the centre. the reason more pressure fell onto dj was because fulham knew what a weak spot he was seeing as already had a yellow and obviously isn't a full back, so a prime target for any smart side. ruiz was also testing the shit out of young coq - which is also the side both goals were crossed from.

Rosicky was drifting all over the field when he came on. I'm sure the right was supposed to be his main position but he was able to drift to the centre and left as well. With Theo, you know at least that he's going to hug the touchline and Riise can't go bombing forwards without consequences.

[Power n Glory]

Look, I see what you are saying. I think the only mistake was in taking both of them off in that respect.

As soon as Djorou got his first booking - the writing was on the wall for him and it had nothing to do with the substitutions - it's Djorou we're talking about here, and had it not been for a freakish number of injuries amongst the back line, we would not be talking about him, because he'd be at home toasting the new year.

And yet Wenger kept him on the field even though he was on a yellow and we had less cover on that side. The writing wasn't on the wall.

[Kano]

Rosicky was drifting all over the field when he came on. I'm sure the right was supposed to be his main position but he was able to drift to the centre and left as well. With Theo, you know at least that he's going to hug the touchline and Riise can't go bombing forwards without consequences.
i really didn't agree with people saying subbing those two was the main reason for defeat, so i had to be a fussy sod and check for something a bit more tangible. from the guardian chalkboards he only made two passes on the left, so his appearances away from the right were fleeting. plain and simple he didn't cover dj enough and put the leg work in.

the two goals came from bennys/coqs side let's not forget and unsurprising given him being as weak an option as our other fb. when fulham get up a full head of steam at home, then it is a hard place to come away from with points and they had the players and directness to expose our problems at the back - losing verm was a big deal for this game.

[Xhaka Can’t]

And yet Wenger kept him on the field even though he was on a yellow and we had less cover on that side. The writing wasn't on the wall.
He was makeshift makeshift.

How do you replace that? I think Wenger should have myself, but see why he did not.

[Power n Glory]

i really didn't agree with people saying subbing those two was the main reason for defeat, so i had to be a fussy sod and check for something a bit more tangible. from the guardian chalkboards he only made two passes on the left, so his appearances away from the right were fleeting.

the two goals came from bennys/coqs side let's not forget and unsurprising given him being as weak an option as our other fb. when fulham get up a full head of steam at home, then it is a hard place to come away from with points and they had the players and directness to expose our problems at the back - losing verm was a big deal for this game.

Does the chalkboard track movement and areas he occupied on the pitch? He was drifting out of position and unless the Chalkboard tracks movement and runs, you won't see it. I'm going off memory. Passes from positions alone won't give the full picture.

[Kano]

unfortunately not, i looked for that first as a spot on indicator but it's only passes, blocks etc. he was on the pitch for 25 minutes only so i think it's fair to go along with the pass stat to create a picture. if he was drifting out of position i'm surprised that there aren't more passes from him there and perhaps he was drawn away in an attempt to diffuse fulham's growing threat and neglected his duties on the right, which would come down to rosickys decision making.

you can see that ruiz, zamora and kelly all put in a lot of work on the left and we may be detracting the argument toward dj's side when in fact the other side was a bigger issue.

[Power n Glory]

We hardly had possession so there won't be many passes. Also, he was drifting more when he first came on, then Yossi came on.

[Marc Overmars]

We lost because Fulham were better than us, by quite some distance in the 2nd half. At no point did we look like increasing our our lead.

/thread.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We lost because Fulham were better than us, by quite some distance in the 2nd half. At no point did we look like increasing our our lead.

/thread.

exactly. Keping theo/gev on would have made no diffrence.

[Coney]

People are confusing tactical ideas with tactical success. If he tried something and it didn't work out, it doesn't mean the idea was wrong.

:good:

This is probably the single logically correct statement on this thread.

Also, if it had worked out, some would have used that to argue that the tactical idea was 'proved' correct.

[Coney]

http://images.brisbanetimes.com.au/2011/12/28/2862807/ipad-art-wide-598621859-420x0.jpg

The Zimm family celebrate Christmas.

:haha: Wrong thread though! Should be funny pics/vids.

[LDG]

I really don't give a fuck about the Fulham match anymore, anyway.

On we go!

Come on The Arsenal :scarf:

[dazthegooner]

I really don't give a fuck about the Fulham match anymore, anyway.

On we go!

Come on The Arsenal :scarf:

:gp:

[Power n Glory]

:good:

This is probably the single logically correct statement on this thread.

Also, if it had worked out, some would have used that to argue that the tactical idea was 'proved' correct.


I have no problem with us trying to win back possession. That makes sense. But I don’t agree with the players he took off and subbed on. I could understand if he took off Ramsey and Arteta for Rosicky and then Yossi. Those two were totally knackered. Plus the way to control a game and win back possession comes from a strong central midfield. If you want to look at the Chalkboard, you can see that Arteta, Song and Ramsey weren’t getting in enough tackles and interceptions. Those guys were flagging and couldn’t cope with Fulham. They couldn’t win the ball back or find our outlet players.

But I can’t understand how we’re supposed to win back possession and retain it by taking off wide players. That makes no tactical sense to me. Gervinho and Theo were wasteful in the final third but were still getting up and down the pitch and weren’t losing the ball in their own areas. Plus, they are good at tracking back and fast enough. I could understand it more if Wenger took off RVP and brought on Chamakh to regain possession. He’s a blunt knife in front of goal but when he drops deep, he’s able to do the simple pass and move stuff and will track back to defend. If RVP was dead on his feet why not make that decision? Not a popular move when fans want goals but I could understand it more. Taking off wide players to gain possession is like someone taking off both full backs because they want the defence to be more solid. That’s tactical suicide if you’re playing against a team that have fast and tricky wingers. Slow CB’s would get ripped. We brought on slow paced central midfielders. Made no sense.

Anyway, on to the next game. Wenger’s tactics and subs have always been his weak point and this is another example.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The problem with taking off Van Persie and replacing him with Chamakh is that you take away any threat to Fulham of us scoring a goal. Without a viable option up front, you simply encourage them to attack even more.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

People are confusing tactical ideas with tactical success. If he tried something and it didn't work out, it doesn't mean the idea was wrong.

It does if the foundation of the idea was faulty- and the foundation of this idea was, for us to win back possession in a subjugated/adverse position we'd have to flood the area we want to dominate/win back possession, with naturally retentive players- ok. But how do you retain something you don't have???
My point is in a position of strength, the foundation of the idea would have been logical, holding on to the possession we already controlled. But according to all of you, we were in a subjugated position by the time the subs came, and almost everyone blames it on the jaded performance of the midfield and not on the actions or non actions of the widemen. So why leave jaded mfs on and weaken the attack all in order to dictate play from an adverse position? Should the focus not have been getting yourself into a position of strength first if you wanted to implement such a tactic. Again, pointing to the game, how did Fulham get out of their subjugated position, was it by flooding the cm, or was it by getting every area of there team performing to par and taking full advantage of our jaded players and established weaknesses?

[Niall_Quinn]

The subs we brought on have enough experience by now to be able to tie down a game and see it out. But they didn't, they fucked up. 3 games in short order was too much for our threadbare squad to deal with. Doesn't bode well for the end of season scramble. We need to strengthen, and we won't.

[Coney]

The problem with taking off Van Persie and replacing him with Chamakh is that you take away any threat to Fulham of us scoring a goal. Without a viable option up front, you simply encourage them to attack even more.

True. Also the reason I don't like to see us defending a 1-0 by just beefing up the defence. If the formation we are playing has given us an advantage why change it - and, as you say, a dangerous striker up front creates a threat preventing the opposition pushing so many players forward. Attack can be a great form of defence.

Also, that's why I prefer a 4-4-2 over a 4-5-1. While 5 can dominate/challenge a 4-5-1 opposition, a 4-4-2 means that the opposition even in a 4-5-1 must have their midfield hanging back a bit to compensate. We should dictate the play, not bow to the opposition.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

This tactic of 5 CMs is something peculiar to AW that he has done dozens of times- and i said it is logical in a position of strength.
He uses it a lot in the CL and TBF it usually works. But in the EPL everytime he uses it, it seems to invite far to much pressure and throw away any advantage we had earlier. I think it's because of mentality differences, most english clubs don't acest they've lost till the final whistle.
Anyway in general i hate the tactic, not only because we seem to be boring and predictable with it, but mainly because i kind of see it as an admission of weakness, i mean to me the fact you need to unbalance your team to protect a lead says a lot. And i know other managers have started noticing.

[Power n Glory]

The problem with taking off Van Persie and replacing him with Chamakh is that you take away any threat to Fulham of us scoring a goal. Without a viable option up front, you simply encourage them to attack even more.

Couldn't the same be said for taking off our two wingers? Didn't it encourage Fulham's wingers and fullbacks to push forward? Regardless of how poor they were they are still a threat. RVP was having a poor game as well.

[Power n Glory]

It does if the foundation of the idea was faulty- and the foundation of this idea was, for us to win back possession in a subjugated/adverse position we'd have to flood the area we want to dominate/win back possession, with naturally retentive players- ok. But how do you retain something you don't have???
My point is in a position of strength, the foundation of the idea would have been logical, holding on to the possession we already controlled. But according to all of you, we were in a subjugated position by the time the subs came, and almost everyone blames it on the jaded performance of the midfield and not on the actions or non actions of the widemen. So why leave jaded mfs on and weaken the attack all in order to dictate play from an adverse position? Should the focus not have been getting yourself into a position of strength first if you wanted to implement such a tactic. Again, pointing to the game, how did Fulham get out of their subjugated position, was it by flooding the cm, or was it by getting every area of there team performing to par and taking full advantage of our jaded players and established weaknesses?

:gp: Some good points made there.

[Kano]

Didn't it encourage Fulham's wingers and fullbacks to push forward?

no, having two non full backs ensured that happened.

[Power n Glory]

no, having two non full backs ensured that happened.

We've had two non fullbacks for a while so that's no excuse.

[Power n Glory]

Also, when was the last time Wenger has taken off both winger for non wingers in a game? Has he ever played Rosicky and Yossi on opposite wings before while our natural fullbacks are out missing?

[Kano]

i don't think it's an excuse but it is most definitely the reason.

[Power n Glory]

And taking off wingers for non wingers - slow central players wasn’t a factor? I hear your point but it also extends to the subs.

It’s also worth checking the Chalkboard. Look how many tackles were made and attempted by Gervinho and Walcott and compare it to the two subs. Take a look at the blocking, interception and tackle stats for our three midfield players as well. The pair won more tackles than Arteta who didn’t win a single tackle. That’s pretty bad, don’t you think? Especially when we’re losing the midfield battle. If Wenger wanted to win possession back, he should made changes in the centre. That’s the area he should been looking at and where we needed fresh legs.

[LDG]

:ilt:

[Power n Glory]

:ilt:

Please do.

[KSE Comedy Club]

We still going on about this?

Fuck sake, get over it, its finished now!

Ref's a cunt, our wingers are shit, rosickys corrupt, djo's a bellend and wengers a clueless twat. job done.

Leeds next, come on arsenal! :scarf:

[LDG]

It finished at 2.47 yesterday afternoon.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Ah yes, didnt see that.

[Kano]

i can't see the harm when it was a civil debate.

[Niall_Quinn]

i can't see the harm when it was a civil debate.

Shut the fuck up!