Our lack of quality in central midfield

[Joker]

A lot has been said about the dreadful performances of Gervinho, Walcott, Squillaci, etc yesterday, and that's warranted, but we shouldn't overlook the fact that our central midfield was completely outclassed by Fulham's. In the second half they had I think over 60% possession for a sustained period. Moreover, yesterday wasn't the only occasion when a mid table team has managed to boss possession against us. 5 years ago, teams like Fulham would never have managed so much territorial control against us, even when we had midfield players out. This just shows how poor our midfield has become IMO. I rate Ramsey, but he's out of form and needs to be dropped IMO. I don't rate Arteta at all, and don't see what he's contributing to the side. Some supporters claim he's adding defensive solidarity, but where was he yesterday when Dembele was waltzing through our midfield? He wasn't tracking their midfield runners, and on a few occasions he lost the ball in very dangerous positions. Offensively, he's given us almost nothing this season, which puts a lot of pressure on Song to hold the midfield together.

This is another area that needs rectifying this month. Even Wilshere's return won't cover up the dearth of top quality options in midfield.

[Kano]

so every midfield in the prem below ours must be absolutely fucking awful, using your logic.

[Niall_Quinn]

so every midfield in the prem below ours must be absolutely fucking awful, using your logic.

We are bottom of the league with no points - how much more proof do you need that all our players are shit?

[Flavs]

Arsenal were better in the past shocker



Jog on

[LDG]

Last 16 games = W10 L4 D2
Previous 16 = W4 L5 D7

We're better than we were in every department since we lost 8-2 to Utd.

Wilshere coming back will only make it better.

Shut up moaning.

Mata - Chelsea - Same position as us basically. They have Lumpard, Essien etc etc.

It's what you do with your players as a team, not individuals.

[Letters]

Last 16 games = W10 L4 D2
Previous 16 = W4 L5 D7

We're better than we were in every department since we lost 8-2 to Utd.

Wilshere coming back will only make it better.

Stop using facts :sulk:
You know that's cheating.

[Kano]

this is going well.

[Coney]

I don't think there is a big midfield issue. I still think the main issue is finding a couple of finishers to backup RvP. This situation has not changed in years. We have got the ball to the opposition box without too much trouble over the last few years but apart from RvP, we just don't have people to finish the job off. If we could put away just a few more of our chances over the year, we would be challenging for the title every year. It's that last few yards that is our downfall.

[GP]

Joker :lol:

Most appropriately named poster ever?

[LDG]

Joker :lol:

Most appropriately named poster ever?

Nah, that award goes to "I Hate Arsenal, And Everything To Do With Them, Even Herbert Chapman's Blind Labrador Puppy".

[Niall_Quinn]

Joker :lol:

Most appropriately named poster ever?

Apart from myself.

[Cripps_orig]

Last 10 games

Won 4 Drawn 2 Lost 4

Mid table form and thats where we are heading

Our midfield is as bad as it gets for a team supposedly going for a CL place. Mediocre players = a mediocre team

[LDG]

Last 10 games

Won 4 Drawn 2 Lost 4

Mid table form and thats where we are heading

Our midfield is as bad as it gets for a team supposedly going for a CL place. Mediocre players = a mediocre team

Luckily for us, everyone else below us is more shit.

[Cripps_orig]

Luckily for us, everyone else below us is more shit.Thats a positive for sure.

We wont finish lower than 6th or higher than 5th.

Between us and Liverpool for those 2 places. Just hope 6th is good enough for a Europa League spot

[Niall_Quinn]

Ramsey, Song and Arteta aren't mediocre players. They are decent, but not good enough to win the big prizes. Good enough to nab 4th for us though, within our reach finacially (considering Wenger is tasked with making a profit in the transfer window every year). Who could we bring in this month - realistically?

[Letters]

I don't think there is a big midfield issue. I still think the main issue is finding a couple of finishers to backup RvP. This situation has not changed in years. We have got the ball to the opposition box without too much trouble over the last few years but apart from RvP, we just don't have people to finish the job off. If we could put away just a few more of our chances over the year, we would be challenging for the title every year. It's that last few yards that is our downfall.

Other years though I think we've been scoring far more from midfield with people like Nasri and Cesc doing well. We don't have that now. We do need another striker who can actually put the ball in the net but we need the midfielders to be chipping in too.

[LDG]

Thats a positive for sure.

We wont finish lower than 6th or higher than 5th.

Between us and Liverpool for those 2 places. Just hope 6th is good enough for a Europa League spot

:lol:

We'll struggle for fourth, if we don't sign someone to stick the ball in the back of the net, or can't get a pair of fit fullbacks....yup.

Nothing to do with the midfield 3 though. Wilshere coming back will be just fine thanks.

[Niall_Quinn]

we need the midfielders to be chipping in too

Save the fancy stuff for later, just getting them to shoot straight is the primary requirement.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Thats a positive for sure.

We wont finish lower than 6th or higher than 5th.

Between us and Liverpool for those 2 places. Just hope 6th is good enough for a Europa League spot

we were in the top four yesterday, we are out of it by a point now. we are still massively in with a chance of getting there at end of season. we still have to play united, scum, city, chavs and they all coming to ours, get points out of that lot and we will be up there. we are not out of the race now, not by a long shot. to be where we are now, given where we were in august is brilliant, wenger deserves a lot of credit and so do the players but we have to push on. yesterday was a crap game but now most of the team will be rested for leeds i expect so thats two weeks off, we must hope they come back rested and ready to push on.

[Cripps_orig]

Ramsey, Song and Arteta aren't mediocre players. They are decent, but not good enough to win the big prizes. Good enough to nab 4th for us though, within our reach finacially (considering Wenger is tasked with making a profit in the transfer window every year). Who could we bring in this month - realistically?

Song isnt. He has shown his quality over the years and im happy with him in the team. Hes just off form at the minute. Shame he isnt going to the ACON so we can put Coq in and see how he does with a run in the team. Arteta in his peak at Everton was an above average player. Hes well past his peak now and been pretty Denilsonesque for us. Ramsey is just poor. His injury as it did with Eduardo, Diaby and by the looks of it Wilshere made him better than he is in the eyes of fans.

Unfortunately Arteta is the level of the player we are trying to sign these days. The top players wont come to us or a joke of a manager anymore

[Kano]

with le coq and wilshere around, he won't be buying centrally this time round.

the top players in europe no longer go to man utd either.

[Letters]

Nah, that award goes to "I Hate Arsenal, And Everything To Do With Them, Even Herbert Chapman's Blind Labrador Puppy".

That's why I just shorten that to 'zimm'.

[LDG]

Save the fancy stuff for later, just getting them to shoot straight is the primary requirement.

If we can sort out Ramsey's cross-eyes, then we'll be fine. Only seems to happen when he get's in the box.

Ramsey (normal eyes) -----------> Ramsey in box (all cross-eyed like a spastic)

[Letters]

Last 10 games

Won 4 Drawn 2 Lost 4

Mid table form and thats where we are heading

Last 1 game

Won 0 Drawn 0 Lost 1

Oh noes, we're going down! :upset:

[Cripps_orig]

we were in the top four yesterday, we are out of it by a point now. we are still massively in with a chance of getting there at end of season. we still have to play united, scum, city, chavs and they all coming to ours, get points out of that lot and we will be up there. we are not out of the race now, not by a long shot. to be where we are now, given where we were in august is brilliant, wenger deserves a lot of credit and so do the players but we have to push on. yesterday was a crap game but now most of the team will be rested for leeds i expect so thats two weeks off, we must hope they come back rested and ready to push on.Top 3 is done and dusted. Chelsea will spend fuck knows how much this January like last January to get that top 4 place. We'll be lucky to spend 17p.

[Cripps_orig]

Last 1 game

Won 0 Drawn 0 Lost 1

Oh noes, we're going down! :upset:Form isnt based on one game. Most football experts base it on 10 games

[LDG]

Song isnt. He has shown his quality over the years and im happy with him in the team. Hes just off form at the minute. Shame he isnt going to the ACON so we can put Coq in and see how he does with a run in the team. Arteta in his peak at Everton was an above average player. Hes well past his peak now and been pretty Denilsonesque for us. Ramsey is just poor. His injury as it did with Eduardo, Diaby and by the looks of it Wilshere made him better than he is in the eyes of fans.

Unfortunately Arteta is the level of the player we are trying to sign these days. The top players wont come to us or a joke of a manager anymore

Who are the top players?

I can only think of Silva and maybe Yaya who have had stand out seasons in the prem.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Top 3 is done and dusted. Chelsea will spend fuck knows how much this January like last January to get that top 4 place. We'll be lucky to spend 17p.

but its not though is it. we beat united, we beat the scum, scum lose a few games or draw, then suddenly we are right back up there. yes the four points over xmas isnt great but we are still up there. oh the chelsea spending how many millions really worked out well for them, where are they now given how much they spent?

[selassie]

We have far more pressing issues than Central Midfield right now though I do agree with the OP in that we do lack a bit of quality in Central Midfield.

The current trio are OK, I do however think Jack will improve our midfield when he returns though I'm still far from convinced that a Jack Ramsey Song midfield is the way to go at present or even a Jack Arteta Song midfield. I do think a Jack Ramsey Song midfield does have the potential to be World Class though.

[Kano]

chelsea spent how much last January? :lol:

[Letters]

Won 4 Drawn 2 Lost 4

Mid table form and thats where we are heading

3 of those loses are:
The City league game away where, from what I heard, we were a bit unlucky to lose and it's certainly no disgrace to lose there.
The City league Cup game. Our reserves vs theirs. Their reserves are people like Nasri, only one likely winner there.
The Olympiarcos game. Awful performance for sure but, as above, nowhere near our full strength team.

Those do somewhat skew the figures. You know this of course.

[Letters]

Most football experts base it on 10 games

84% of statistics (and statements made of messageboards, apparently) are made up on the spot.


FACT.

[LDG]

We have far more pressing issues than Central Midfield right now though I do agree with the OP in that we do lack a bit of quality in Central Midfield.

The current trio are OK, I do however think Jack will improve our midfield when he returns though I'm still far from convinced that a Jack Ramsey Song midfield is the way to go at present or even a Jack Arteta Song midfield. I do think a Jack Ramsey Song midfield does have the potential to be World Class though.

That's a bit more rational....though I'd love to see Song --> Jack --> Diaby (in form). That would be one hell of a trio.

[Cripps_orig]

but its not though is it. we beat united, we beat the scum, scum lose a few games or draw, then suddenly we are right back up there. yes the four points over xmas isnt great but we are still up there. oh the chelsea spending how many millions really worked out well for them, where are they now given how much they spent?Yes Chelsea should be doing better for how much they have spent over the years. Only 3 titles and no CLs in the Russian era is pretty lolworthy stuff but nevertheless that isnt the point. The point is will they finish above us? The answer is yes.

As for the other scenario, all ifs and buts. No guarantee we will beat Spuds or Mancs at home.

[LDG]

Chelsea :lol:

Awful team.

[Flavs]

People blaming our midfield :lol:

have you seen our defence???

[Cripps_orig]

3 of those loses are:
The City league game away where, from what I heard, we were a bit unlucky to lose and it's certainly no disgrace to lose there.
The City league Cup game. Our reserves vs theirs. Their reserves are people like Nasri, only one likely winner there.
The Olympiarcos game. Awful performance for sure but, as above, nowhere near our full strength team.

Those do somewhat skew the figures. You know this of course.Now youre just reaching.

Arsenal played those games and they (the 3 losses) are rightly included in the last 10 games. But even the last 5 games, all league games, the record is won 2 drawn 1 lost 2.

Anyone who thinks we are in very good form or have been over the past month or so are deluding themselves. Yeah we had a good november. That blip is over.

[LDG]

Now youre just reaching.

Arsenal played those games and they (the 3 losses) are rightly included in the last 10 games. But even the last 5 games, all league games, the record is won 2 drawn 1 lost 2.

Anyone who thinks we are in very good form or have been over the past month or so are deluding themselves. Yeah we had a good november. That blip is over.

Experts would only use 10 games tbf.

[Letters]

People blaming our midfield :lol:

have you seen our defence???

Our defence since the early debacles has actually been pretty good. We've conceded 7 in the last 10* league games which is better than City or Chelsea. (Utd have done better, only conceding 5)


* - this is the number all football experts use when assessing form.

[LDG]

:haha:

[Letters]

Experts would only use 10 games tbf.

:gp:

No football expert would only use 5 games. That's just reaching.

Cripps, if you don't think 2 defeats when we put out a reserve side and 1 when we were away at the champions elect don't somewhat skew the figures then fair enough, we'll agree to disagree.

[Grebbo]

Other than Striker, GK and CB's we lack quality all over - and that's just the first team. Look at the bench and cry at how shit we are.

[Cripps_orig]

Experts would only use 10 games tbf.Exactly. Recent form (last 5) has been mid table pub team stuff. Go back another 5 making it 10 and its the same.

[Dennis Bendtner]

We went down this route with the summer dealings. Arteta replacing Fabregas tends to have that effect. Of course the quality's gone down, but the balance is intended to shift from that area. If we didn't have retards on the flanks I am quite sure we'd be really happy about the new found solidity and direct approach. For all Arteta's limitations, I can't see how you can't see he hasn't provided this. Proof is in the pudding since he arrived.

[Flavs]

Between Sagna, Jenko, Gibbs, Santos, Diaby, vermaelen and Wilshere we will have 7 new signings in the next couple of months.

[Cripps_orig]

Our defence since the early debacles has actually been pretty good. We've conceded 7 in the last 10* league games which is better than City or Chelsea. (Utd have done better, only conceding 5)


* - this is the number all football experts use when assessing form.How many games would you use then to assess form? Id say 10 is fair enough.

How many times have we heard managers say "lets see where we are 10 games in to the season and take it from there" at the start of a season?

[Letters]

Between Sagna, Jenko, Gibbs, Santos, Diaby, vermaelen and Wilshere we will have 7 new signings in the next couple of months.


Wenger :bow:

[LDG]

Exactly. Recent form (last 5) has been mid table pub team stuff. Go back another 5 making it 10 and its the same.

But with some of them not being in the league, that can't count. Mid-table doesn't apply to CC or CL....do it based on league form :good:

[Cripps_orig]

:gp:

No football expert would only use 5 games. That's just reaching.

Cripps, if you don't think 2 defeats when we put out a reserve side and 1 when we were away at the champions elect don't somewhat skew the figures then fair enough, we'll agree to disagree.Why wouldnt they? Arsenal played those games if im not mistaken regardless of what team we put out. Had we won those games with the reserves, you'd be using that as a reason to say we are in good form so whats the difference?

[Letters]

How many times have we heard managers say "lets see where we are 10 games in to the season and take it from there" at the start of a season?

I think pretty much never. But anyway, I do think 10 games is reasonable. As form changes over time it's difficult to say which number to use actually. Arguably fewer is a better indication of current form.
Anyway, the point is 2 of those games we lost when our reserves played. I'm not sure that says anything about the form of the first choice players and both times we won the following game when those players returned. Another loss was City away. As you well know City have not dropped a single point at home in 9 league games. Losing there is not an indication of poor form and, again, we won the next game.

Stats need some analysis and interpretation, they don't just stand on their own.

[Flavs]

I think pretty much never. .

:lol:

[Letters]

Why wouldnt they? Arsenal played those games if im not mistaken regardless of what team we put out. Had we won those games with the reserves, you'd be using that as a reason to say we are in good form so whats the difference?

If I did do that then people would be completely reasonable in picking me up on it, as I'm doing with you when you do the reverse.

[Kano]

last 10 league games

w6 d2 l2

[LDG]

last 10 league games

w6 d2 l2

That's pretty reasonable, give we played the Champions elect away from home and put in a solid performance.

I'm not happy about the Fulham one, or the draw against Wolves.

But from the last 10 games (based on what experts would base league form on), I would say that is not too bad. Could do a little better.

[LDG]

Am I right in saying that City have lost two within that period too??

In the last ten games that is....

Because only experts would use the last 10 games as a barometer or course.

[Kano]

That's pretty reasonable, give we played the Champions elect away from home and put in a solid performance.

I'm not happy about the Fulham one, or the draw against Wolves.

But from the last 10 games (based on what experts would base league form on), I would say that is not too bad. Could do a little better.
in the past 10 games we're the 4th best team in terms of form.

so like you say, room for improvement of course but the team is in the right place to achieve the minimum target for the season.

[Cripps_orig]

last 10 league games

w6 d2 l2Pretty much standard for the level we are at now. We arent a bad team. Not by any means. We arent a top one either and the form and stats suggest that.

[Cripps_orig]

Am I right in saying that City have lost two within that period too??

In the last ten games that is....

Because only experts would use the last 10 games as a barometer or course.Il ask you the same question i asked Letters then

How many games would you use to determine form?

[Kano]

Am I right in saying that City have lost two within that period too??

In the last ten games that is....

Because only experts would use the last 10 games as a barometer or course.

only tottenham (3) and united (5) have won more points in that time.

[Letters]

Pretty much standard for the level we are at now. We arent a bad team. Not by any means. We arent a top one either and the form and stats suggest that.

It's the same stats as City in their last 10 league games.
And they beat us during that period...

[Kano]

Pretty much standard for the level we are at now. We arent a bad team. Not by any means. We arent a top one either and the form and stats suggest that.
def not mid table as you say.

our form is spot on for where we are in the league and have a steadier ship than chelsea and liverpool atm.

[Letters]

Am I right in saying that City have lost two within that period too??

In the last ten games that is....

Because only experts would use the last 10 games as a barometer or course.

They've drawn two too. So all football experts agree that our league form, based on the internationally recognised standard number of games for assessing form, is the same as City's who are top of the table.

In brief: Us :bow:

[Flavs]

If we didn't have retards on the flanks I am quite sure we'd be really happy about the new found solidity and direct approach. .

Flanking retards :bow:

[LDG]

Il ask you the same question i asked Letters then

How many games would you use to determine form?

I don't use games. I just look at how we're playing. And the last few, we've been poor, in need of an injection of something. Hopefully we'll get that after a break, and hopefully with a couple of additions.

I think it's down to tiredness, injuries at fullback and poor form from the bench.

So to go back to the OP. No, our midfield isn't shit. We lack a striker and some fullbacks.

[Cripps_orig]

It's the same stats as City in their last 10 league games.
And they beat us during that period...You dont see the difference?

You think we are in awesome form hence we shouldnt "moan" or "critisise" Wenger. Youre more than happy with that form

Ask any City fan if they are happy and they'd say no.

What is shit for them is good for us. Thats how far we have fallen

[Letters]

You dont see the difference?

Oh yes, but if you can play dumb then I can too.

[Cripps_orig]

Oh yes, but if you can play dumb then I can too.Im not the one WUMming....

[GP]

Oh yes, but if you can play dumb then I can too.

Who's playing?

[LDG]

:lol:

[Flavs]

Who's playing?

:haha:

[Kano]

some pretty high level trolling going on here today

world class some might say

[GP]

some pretty high level trolling going on here today

world class some might say

You can only judge the level of trolling over the last 10 posts.

[LDG]

You can only judge the level of trolling over the last 10 posts.

Cripps :rose:

[Niall_Quinn]

We went down this route with the summer dealings. Arteta replacing Fabregas tends to have that effect. Of course the quality's gone down, but the balance is intended to shift from that area. If we didn't have retards on the flanks I am quite sure we'd be really happy about the new found solidity and direct approach. For all Arteta's limitations, I can't see how you can't see he hasn't provided this. Proof is in the pudding since he arrived.

The pudding is playing shit too, though that was a great pass to RvP vs QPR.

[Coney]

we need the midfielders to be chipping in too.

And Walcott - he should have chipped the keeper in the QPR game rather than fluffing the shot. ;)

[Coney]

So to go back to the OP. No, our midfield isn't shit. We lack a striker and some fullbacks.

:good:

[Dog Toffee]

We have a class midfield.

[SayNoMore]

Arteta hasnt managed to change or even influence any game to any sort of extent we need. A good player, that works hard, even puts in a shift and has some sort of technical ability. But with all due respect there are better CMs who do exactly what he does and more. He hasnt managed to take control and is getting only older, so hes not gona improve tbh. Not bad but i suppose that is what this club has been aiming for in the last couple of years.

Once whilshere is back i would like to see him with arteta and i assume having jack as his partner rather than ramsay will relinquish some pressure on him. I like ramsay but he is hit and miss. This season after injury is only helping him, i think hel need one or two seasons until he can start to mature and peak.

Our midfield, after losing cesc and nasri, was always going to be weaker, but my only hope is jack. Then i believe this team will look so much better, hes that important in my opinion. No pressure or anything on him ...

[Niall_Quinn]

Arteta hasnt managed to change or even influence any game to any sort of extent we need. A good player, that works hard, even puts in a shift and has some sort of technical ability. But with all due respect there are better CMs who do exactly what he does and more. He hasnt managed to take control and is getting only older, so hes not gona improve tbh. Not bad but i suppose that is what this club has been aiming for in the last couple of years.

Once whilshere is back i would like to see him with arteta and i assume having jack as his partner rather than ramsay will relinquish some pressure on him. I like ramsay but he is hit and miss. This season after injury is only helping him, i think hel need one or two seasons until he can start to mature and peak.

Our midfield, after losing cesc and nasri, was always going to be weaker, but my only hope is jack. Then i believe this team will look so much better, hes that important in my opinion. No pressure or anything on him ...

When the season started the primary role of our midfield (in fact the whole team) was to find something to grab to stop us plunging into a pit full of shit. Arteta has helped. He's not spectacular, he's no play maker, but he's competent, experienced and is prepared to graft for the team. That's just what we needed and he's done the job well. It's interesting you are keen to see him with Wilshere - so am I. Losing Jack for so long has been a massive hit. Losing the whole bloody defence on top has been a nightmare too. The guys that can still walk have done an okay job. It could have been so much worse. In fact at one point it looked like we'd struggle to stay in the top flight, never mind challenge for a CL spot. The latter seemed like fantasy, but everyone has to admit the players and the manager have halted the plunge and have clawed themselves back into contention. credit where it's due.

Also, sack the board. Bunch of cunts.

[Cripps_orig]

Are we overhyping Jack a bit?

He didnt score or assist many last season if i remember correctly. Good player no doubt and better than Arteta and Ramsey by some distance but is he really our saviour?

[LDG]

Are we overhyping Jack a bit?

He didnt score or assist many last season if i remember correctly. Good player no doubt and better than Arteta and Ramsey by some distance but is he really our saviour?

Depends. Not sure he was given the role which suits him best last term. Cesc was in it. He was mucking in a bit more Arteta-like....and when Cesc was out, Nasri tended to be played there....we'll see soon enough I guess.

[Cripps_orig]

Really not expecting much from him this season if im honest. Our record with players coming back from long term injuries and hitting form isnt good. They need 10 games at least.

Then hes going to fuck off to the Euro 2012/Olympics meaning he'll be dead when he comes back for us.

In short, we wont see the real Sir Jack of Wilshere til this time next year

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We should just sign Goetze or Shaqiri tbf. Cripps and I will do the negotiations. :threaten:

[Kano]

Really not expecting much from him this season if im honest. Our record with players coming back from long term injuries and hitting form isnt good. They need 10 games at least.

Then hes going to fuck off to the Euro 2012/Olympics meaning he'll be dead when he comes back for us.

In short, we wont see the real Sir Jack of Wilshere til this time next year

you're probably right but he will at least be ready to get stuck into the dirty work straight away so with his energy and running it will only help the team.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Are we overhyping Jack a bit?

He didnt score or assist many last season if i remember correctly. Good player no doubt and better than Arteta and Ramsey by some distance but is he really our saviour?

Jesus H. Christ.

[Power n Glory]

It's been a problem for a while and yesterday's game really showed them up.

I can't see the point of Arteta. He has settled into a very comfortable role and taken a back seat in the shadows. It's really disappointing. He was Everton's playmaker and now he's Song's defensive little helper. Ramsey has taken on the creative role and he's not very good at it, but he never goes into hiding. He's always buzzing about looking for the ball. We just don't get that from Areta. He picks the ball up from deep, plays it to a centre back and doesn't even look for the return pass or get into a decent passing position. Watch him in the next game and which playere usually take on the responsibility of playing the ball forward from deep. Watch his movement and how often he comes looking for the ball.

People have said he's doing an underrated job but that's rubbish and the same argument I heard for Denilson performances. He was Everton's main playmaker and I expected him to take centre stage with us and want the ball, demand it and do something with it. So far, I've seen more of that from Ramsey and Song. Argue all you want about his 'solid defensive displays', that wasn't the player we were supposed to be buying. Young Coquelin could do that job and more. Arteta tracks a lot of runs and attempts tackles but it's not a dominant defensive display. I've seen Coquelin put that sort or shift in, same goes for Frimpong and Diaby at times. Arteta's physical attributes doen't suite that type of role so he shouldn't be playing it. We should probably swap him and Ramsey around and see what happens.

Against Fulham, we couldn't win the ball back and couldn't hold possession. There number 11 was running riot from the 1st half and Fulham had loads of attempts on goal. As we grew tired, they took over. The middle has always been a weakness. Ramsey and Arteta aren't a good pairing. One of them has to make way. All of our creativity has come from the front three and now that they're out of gas, someone from the middle has to step it up a notch. The lack of goals and creativity from the middle is a problem. Gerv and Theo took a lot of slack for the Fulhan loss and they stunk up the joint. But people seem to forget that Fulham ran riot in the middle and took over completely, even when we took Gerv and Theo off. Wenger needs to look into this in the next coming games. OP has a point. Yes, we've made it back up the table, but we've just started the new year and this is where the pressure is on. We could see the performance levels dropping ages ago and the warning signs were there. Question is, can the team turn it around or will we bottle it like we've done on the past?

[Dennis Bendtner]

Everton fans were saying Arteta had lost that spark a while ago. We probably knew what we were buying and his limitations. His deeper role is what he was bought for - pretty sure Wilshere is the Fabregas 'replacement', if you like. These days he's nothing special but I can't see how it's at all comparable to Denilson. Comparing him to a guy who was genuinely incompetent at his job is not right.

So far I've been happy with him. Disappointment is his set-pieces which evidently got lazy hype. His overall effect on our game has been good.

[Power n Glory]

No, the argument about his role being underrated is comparable. He's not as lazy as Denilson and better at defending. He at least tracks his man. If Wilshere is to play the Fabs role, then Arteta was bought to stand in for Wilshere because Wenger said we bought because we knew the kid would be out for most of the season. As for us knowing what we were buying...not so sure about that.

[LDG]

This Denilson comparison is lazy, just like Denilson. Arteta is far more intellegent and anticipates and holds the ball far better. I, like others thought he was bought to replace cesc, but truth be told, i think wenger got sick of denilson and his shoddy performances and bought a player capable of filling that roll.If there has been a problem, it's ramsey's position as the one up top. He hasn't the legs just yet, but this will come with experience and the ability to get forward ahead of the game. He doesn't carry the ball like cesc, but in a way that's a good thing. Wilshire is the one who needs to play there, with either ramsey or arteta in behind. The balance will be much better then.

[Power n Glory]

This Denilson comparison is lazy, just like Denilson. Arteta is far more intellegent and anticipates and holds the ball far better. I, like others thought he was bought to replace cesc, but truth be told, i think wenger got sick of denilson and his shoddy performances and bought a player capable of filling that roll.If there has been a problem, it's ramsey's position as the one up top. He hasn't the legs just yet, but this will come with experience and the ability to get forward ahead of the game. He doesn't carry the ball like cesc, but in a way that's a good thing. Wilshire is the one who needs to play there, with either ramsey or arteta in behind. The balance will be much better then.

He's a better player than Denilson but just like a few seasons ago when Denilson was getting played week in week out, people were making out as if his role was more significant and important than what it actually was. I'm hearing the same sort of arguments on here about Arteta as if what he's doing is going unnoticed. It's not. It's like watching someone with a PHD settling for a job as a janitor and being content. If we needed a player to sit back and mop up, we could have got that a more from Coquelin and saved some money.

I agree with the part about Ramsey and could have written a lot about him as well. He doesn't have the footballing intelligence to play in the final third. His passing is reckless, your right about him not having the legs to get into position. On fast breaks he's often missing and should be scoring more from cut backs. Gervinho and Walcott break into the box often enough. If he does get the cut back it can often take him ages to get the ball from under his feet or make a decision. He just can't play there. We need someone that thinks quicker and is a lot sharper. Rosicky should get a shot and I also think Arshavin should play there but more as an attacking midfielder. But for that to happen, the two sitting deep would have to stay tight and work their socks off but that's another thread.

[LDG]

He may well be able to do more going forward, but it's obvious to me that we needed far more dicipline in midfield than the gung ho set up of last year. When song goes forward arteta sits, and the other way around. We needed it. It may not be pretty, but where denilson and to a certain extent, jack and cesc failed, has been bettered from a team point of view. When you play with attacking fullbacks, you need your midfield to be clever enough, and that's what we have. That said, all three look knackered from playing every sodding match. Agree arshavin would be good in the hole role. We don't need to replace anyone though. Which was the OP's point. A point which i think is as devoid of intellegence as, for instance, selling RVP for being useless.

[Dennis Bendtner]

No, the argument about his role being underrated is comparable. He's not as lazy as Denilson and better at defending. He at least tracks his man. If Wilshere is to play the Fabs role, then Arteta was bought to stand in for Wilshere because Wenger said we bought because we knew the kid would be out for most of the season. As for us knowing what we were buying...not so sure about that.

Underrated? Ok that's different. I don't think many have called him that. You've acknowledged exactly what most people think he does. On that basis he can't really be underrated. I don't think Arteta really was a 'playmaker' in any mould in recent years at Everton. He was played across midfield and - certainly when his abilities waned - he wasn't the main man a la Fabregas. I think Wenger knew what he was getting, as a steady eddie type who's economical in possession and experienced. If he didn't know that of a guy having played 6-7 years in this league I'd be concerned. Arteta is a rare stop-gap signing.

[Power n Glory]

Underrated? Ok that's different. I don't think many have called him that. You've acknowledged exactly what most people think he does. On that basis he can't really be underrated. I don't think Arteta really was a 'playmaker' in any mould in recent years at Everton. He was played across midfield and - certainly when his abilities waned - he wasn't the main man a la Fabregas. I think Wenger knew what he was getting, as a steady eddie type who's economical in possession and experienced. If he didn't know that of a guy having played 6-7 years in this league I'd be concerned. Arteta is a rare stop-gap signing.

Check the post above yours and it's the sort of argument being made for Denilson years back as if his role was essential to defensive stability. If that's what we needed, we'd be better off playing Coquelin and Song. That's more pace and power. Last season, JW player where Arteta played and was our stand out player. Never neglected his defensive duties but very good at keeping the ball moving. Great ball retention skills and distribution. Never took a back seat in games. Just saying it's possible to have a someone playing inbetween the DM and attacking midfield player and yet still stamp his authority in a game and be influential.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

if we've got arteta sitting deep then fine, im all for it.

but then to have someone like ramsey playing the playmaker role is suicidal. the lad is no natural playmaker.

just imagine if we had goetze/ozil/someone in that calibre who could actually unlock opposition in the final third.

we'd be so much more dangerous in attack.

ramsey is a deep-lying midfielder. not an attacking midfielder.

[Power n Glory]

if we've got arteta sitting deep then fine, im all for it.

but then to have someone like ramsey playing the playmaker role is suicidal. the lad is no natural playmaker.

just imagine if we had goetze/ozil/someone in that calibre who could actually unlock opposition in the final third.

we'd be so much more dangerous in attack.

ramsey is a deep-lying midfielder. not an attacking midfielder.

Yep, agree with that also. I think Arshavin should get a shot there for a few games. He hasn't the legs for the wings and can't beat his man on the flanks that easily but his passing ability and eye for goal should serve better in the role Ramsey currently play.

[Marc Overmars]

Our midfield is more about the industry these days, which to be fair has contributed to better defensive displays.

We do miss a creative guy in there though, someone who has a free role to link the midfield and attack. Ramsey has been good and provided a few key passes in the build up to goals, however I don't think he's consistent enough, which is understandable given his age.

I can't see us buying here though, as it would mean big bucks and a luxury signing. One for the summer maybe.

For now we just have to get by until Wilshere is back to provide a new option.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Yep, agree with that also. I think Arshavin should get a shot there for a few games. He hasn't the legs for the wings and can't beat his man on the flanks that easily but his passing ability and eye for goal should serve better in the role Ramsey currently play.

as the poster above has said, we've got bulked up our midfield with experience and resilience which is perfectly fine. but without jack we are desperately lacking a playmaker.

i dont like the idea of frimpong leaving for wolves either, yes he needs games but we need a competitive squad. the reason we've pulled ourselves together from the horrible start to our season is because we added quality towards the end of the window and it increased our competition. arshavin who used to start last season, can barely get a game now. so it's improving. frimpong battling with song for that DM place would have been good, and ive got no doubt he would have got his opportunity towards the second half of the season.

but we NEED more additions. hopefully wengers pre season comments where he said its not long term anymore but short term means we will sign players. surely he can see we need quality players to push on.

but this also means selling players who clearly have no future at the club (squid, almunia, arshavin, chamakh). for someone who was so ruthless in dismantling the invincibles team, it really baffles me as to why he's showing so much loyalty to shit players like arshavin.

[Kano]

no way to arshavin in the middle. he clearly doesn't want to be here and has not showed the required level of skill or effort for a considerable amount of time, so to put him the engine room of our team in that knowledge, would be detrimental to the team. we need something else to freshen up the three guys we've been using for some time but arshavin is not that guy.

[LDG]

Check the post above yours and it's the sort of argument being made for Denilson years back as if his role was essential to defensive stability. If that's what we needed, we'd be better off playing Coquelin and Song. That's more pace and power. Last season, JW player where Arteta played and was our stand out player. Never neglected his defensive duties but very good at keeping the ball moving. Great ball retention skills and distribution. Never took a back seat in games. Just saying it's possible to have a someone playing inbetween the DM and attacking midfield player and yet still stamp his authority in a game and be influential.

Coquelin is a talent no doubt, but think of the outcry if he had been used from the off, and it had failed. Fans would be screaming blue murder at Wenger for not spending.

We've been berrating the bloke for years for not adding experience, premier league experience at that, and to stop trusting in youth coming good.

Arteta has bags of experience. Has helped steady the ship, and made us more of a team. Nobody is saying he's fucking mega. Nobody is giving him praise beyond that which is rightly deserved. Everyone is just saying that he is doing a job which no other cunt as been doing for us for a long time.

There is nothing wrong with what he is doing, or for that matter, anything wrong with the way we looked to plug gaps after leaking football diarrhea for 6 months.

People say Wenger is stupid. He's not. He's a stubborn old cunt, who rolls the dice too many times. This time he didn't. He bought experience we desperately needed. The sooner people stop looking to be spoiled rotten with megastar signings the better in my opinion.

I'm looking forward to Wilshere's return, to see what this midfield can do with someone more suited to the playmaker role than Ramsey, who will be better rotating with Arteta.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Coquelin is a talent no doubt, but think of the outcry if he had been used from the off, and it had failed. Fans would be screaming blue murder at Wenger for not spending.

We've been berrating the bloke for years for not adding experience, premier league experience at that, and to stop trusting in youth coming good.

Arteta has bags of experience. Has helped steady the ship, and made us more of a team. Nobody is saying he's fucking mega. Nobody is giving him praise beyond that which is rightly deserved. Everyone is just saying that he is doing a job which no other cunt as been doing for us for a long time.

There is nothing wrong with what he is doing, or for that matter, anything wrong with the way we looked to plug gaps after leaking football diarrhea for 6 months.

People say Wenger is stupid. He's not. He's a stubborn old cunt, who rolls the dice too many times. This time he didn't. He bought experience we desperately needed. The sooner people stop looking to be spoiled rotten with megastar signings the better in my opinion.

I'm looking forward to Wilshere's return, to see what this midfield can do with someone more suited to the playmaker role than Ramsey, who will be better rotating with Arteta.

Did Wenger get an ipad as well?

[LDG]

Did Wenger get an ipad as well?

:lol:

37p.

"Dice rolling has become an inflated market. We used to roll the die for free. Now we are in the waiting period. We may roll one super super die. It requires patience. But, no. We have not contacted Apple"

Any further die related news will be confirmed on ArsenalCasino.com. One Free Play when you join, and a shit scarf. Sign up now for just £250.00.

[Xhaka Can’t]

:lol:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Check the post above yours and it's the sort of argument being made for Denilson years back as if his role was essential to defensive stability. If that's what we needed, we'd be better off playing Coquelin and Song. That's more pace and power. Last season, JW player where Arteta played and was our stand out player. Never neglected his defensive duties but very good at keeping the ball moving. Great ball retention skills and distribution. Never took a back seat in games. Just saying it's possible to have a someone playing inbetween the DM and attacking midfield player and yet still stamp his authority in a game and be influential.

Problem with Denilson IMHO, he was Lazy, he never like to track back or even if he made a mistake, he not look to take the blame. Passing he was excellent and was our best passer after cesc imo. He could have been a good player if he took his opportunites when given them. Mikel A Grafts at least, he puts the work in, creactive he is not and he never was going to be the new cesc. Like DB said he is a rare stop gap signing nothing more.

I do agree him and ramsey don't do well together and the sooner Jack comes back the better, problem is it could take jack till march to get to full fitness and where could we be by then.

[selassie]

:lol:

37p.

"Dice rolling has become an inflated market. We used to roll the die for free. Now we are in the waiting period. We may roll one super super die. It requires patience. But, no. We have not contacted Apple"

Any further die related news will be confirmed on ArsenalCasino.com. One Free Play when you join, and a shit scarf. Sign up now for just £250.00.

:clap:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:lol:

37p.

"Dice rolling has become an inflated market. We used to roll the die for free. Now we are in the waiting period. We may roll one super super die. It requires patience. But, no. We have not contacted Apple"

Any further die related news will be confirmed on ArsenalCasino.com. One Free Play when you join, and a shit scarf. Sign up now for just £250.00.

Arsenal Board :bow: anything to line their fat pockets

[Boss]

Creativity of our midfield is pretty poor. IMO of the regular three (Song-Ramsey-Arteta) Song is probably our best playmaker and that's saying a lot about the other two given that he's supposed to be the defensive minded player. Thankfully our AMs (Gervinho/Walcott etc) create enough but as they can't finish we really need the midfield to step up.

Arteta was an okay signing, decent if he was brought in alongside a 'star' midfield man (to replace someone like Diaby/Rosicky) but poor given that he was brought in by himself to play in CM (don't really consider Benayoun a central midfielder). He keeps things steady but rarely will change a game and is as someone said effectively a glorified Denilson (albeit a lot more hardworking). We'll win nothing with Arteta in midfield.

Although I can't wait for Wilshere to come back I think he's been overhyped in the extreme since being injured, his general play was usually exceptional for us but end product was poor. Ultimately think we need a star man in midfield as well as up front, and a signing to tide us over while the defensive injuries heal.

[Power n Glory]

Coquelin is a talent no doubt, but think of the outcry if he had been used from the off, and it had failed. Fans would be screaming blue murder at Wenger for not spending.

We've been berrating the bloke for years for not adding experience, premier league experience at that, and to stop trusting in youth coming good.

Arteta has bags of experience. Has helped steady the ship, and made us more of a team. Nobody is saying he's fucking mega. Nobody is giving him praise beyond that which is rightly deserved. Everyone is just saying that he is doing a job which no other cunt as been doing for us for a long time.

There is nothing wrong with what he is doing, or for that matter, anything wrong with the way we looked to plug gaps after leaking football diarrhea for 6 months.

People say Wenger is stupid. He's not. He's a stubborn old cunt, who rolls the dice too many times. This time he didn't. He bought experience we desperately needed. The sooner people stop looking to be spoiled rotten with megastar signings the better in my opinion.

I'm looking forward to Wilshere's return, to see what this midfield can do with someone more suited to the playmaker role than Ramsey, who will be better rotating with Arteta.

You have a point with that one. But the when we sold Cesc, we were all waiting to hear about the next creative midfield player we'd sign. We haven't done that with Arteta. We're really struggling to get goals and create chances from the middle and as someone said, Song is probably our best playmaker. I wouldn't mind seeing a reshuffle in the middle. Let Arteta play ahead of Ramsey and Ramsey play deeper. See how it works.

[Power n Glory]

Creativity of our midfield is pretty poor. IMO of the regular three (Song-Ramsey-Arteta) Song is probably our best playmaker and that's saying a lot about the other two given that he's supposed to be the defensive minded player. Thankfully our AMs (Gervinho/Walcott etc) create enough but as they can't finish we really need the midfield to step up.

Arteta was an okay signing, decent if he was brought in alongside a 'star' midfield man (to replace someone like Diaby/Rosicky) but poor given that he was brought in by himself to play in CM (don't really consider Benayoun a central midfielder). He keeps things steady but rarely will change a game and is as someone said effectively a glorified Denilson (albeit a lot more hardworking). We'll win nothing with Arteta in midfield.

Although I can't wait for Wilshere to come back I think he's been overhyped in the extreme since being injured, his general play was usually exceptional for us but end product was poor. Ultimately think we need a star man in midfield as well as up front, and a signing to tide us over while the defensive injuries heal.

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

You have a point with that one. But the when we sold Cesc, we were all waiting to hear about the next creative midfield player we'd sign. We haven't done that with Arteta. We're really struggling to get goals and create chances from the middle and as someone said, Song is probably our best playmaker. I wouldn't mind seeing a reshuffle in the middle. Let Arteta play ahead of Ramsey and Ramsey play deeper. See how it works.

Not true in all cases, a lot were saying we needed to play a different system that eradicated the Cesc role or at least the over-reliance on that role.

[LDG]

Yup. Me included.

What I wanted was more width and directness, rather than trying to walk the ball in.

To a degree we've got that, with a more stable midfield trio, capable of defending as a team too....

Problem we have, is that Gerv and Walcott are so woefully off form, and we have no fullbacks....so the whole width thing ain't looking as good, as it was earlier in the season....

[Cripps_orig]

Creativity of our midfield is pretty poor. IMO of the regular three (Song-Ramsey-Arteta) Song is probably our best playmaker and that's saying a lot about the other two given that he's supposed to be the defensive minded player. Thankfully our AMs (Gervinho/Walcott etc) create enough but as they can't finish we really need the midfield to step up.

Arteta was an okay signing, decent if he was brought in alongside a 'star' midfield man (to replace someone like Diaby/Rosicky) but poor given that he was brought in by himself to play in CM (don't really consider Benayoun a central midfielder). He keeps things steady but rarely will change a game and is as someone said effectively a glorified Denilson (albeit a lot more hardworking). We'll win nothing with Arteta in midfield.

Although I can't wait for Wilshere to come back I think he's been overhyped in the extreme since being injured, his general play was usually exceptional for us but end product was poor. Ultimately think we need a star man in midfield as well as up front, and a signing to tide us over while the defensive injuries heal.Spot on

[Flavs]

Yup. Me included.

What I wanted was more width and directness, rather than trying to walk the ball in.

To a degree we've got that, with a more stable midfield trio, capable of defending as a team too....

Problem we have, is that Gerv and Walcott are so woefully off form, and we have no fullbacks....so the whole width thing ain't looking as good, as it was earlier in the season....

We did trial a 4-4-1-1 in the league cup a couple of times, i wondered if we might swap to that now. Play Arshavin just behind RvP (before we sell him)

[Power n Glory]

Yup. Me included.

What I wanted was more width and directness, rather than trying to walk the ball in.

To a degree we've got that, with a more stable midfield trio, capable of defending as a team too....

Problem we have, is that Gerv and Walcott are so woefully off form, and we have no fullbacks....so the whole width thing ain't looking as good, as it was earlier in the season....



A change in system is fine but it would make more sense to me if we signed another defensive midfielder instead. Someone more mobile, physical and strong. In the same vein as Petit and Vieira. If we had two destroyers back there, we could afford to have an all out attacker midfielder playing further up the pitch and supporting the front three. Arteta has slotted into this current role, but I doubt it was the vision we originally had.

[LDG]

Meh. We ain't gonna see eye to eye on it, so can't be arsed to carry on the debate.

Let's just hope wilshere ups the ante, because right now they all look fucking knackered to me.