Match reacton thread Vs Swansea

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Thoughts ? We were so Dyer today end off.

WE should forget top four were done, we will lose to the mancs next week and drop more points best we can hope for is 5th and even that we need to be worried.


Arshavin and theo need to feck off, wilshere needs to come back ramsey is dreadful. deffo need another striker and if wenger can't see this then he should fuck off .

[gunnerrrrr]

WENGER OUT.....enough is enough

[Asthmatic Kitty]

seems everyone but wenger can see how awful walcott and arshavin are.

szczesny's decision making :crying:

[Marc Overmars]

Wheels come off the wagon, again.

No chance of finishing 4th at this rate.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Wenger. :wave:

[alexander]

Im pretty sure we are not getting 4th or above this season. Just throw on oxo and the rest of the kids for experience for the rest of the season. Dont want that Europa league crap.

[KESSLER]

deserved to lose. we were fucking awful from front to back

[Ernesto]

Arsenal are shit

[hobson's choice]

I got nothing

[Niall_Quinn]

Hmm, forum is very busy all of a sudden.

[gunnerrrrr]

look at the overall picture..

how many games have we struggled to now maintain possession
how many games have Theo, Asharvin, lack of fullbacks let us down
how shit are Wengers tactics
how predictable are we
how reliant are we on RVP

yet Wenger is adamant we dont need a better quakity of footballer than we all ready have....well in that case he has to stand up and say he is doing a fucking shit job.

If he thinks these guys are good enough yet we lose to Blackburns, Swanseas etc...than so be it on his head

[Marc Overmars]

I got nothing

Neither does the team.

[Niall_Quinn]

I got nothing

Are you sure you went back out that second time?

[milla]

As I have said since the beginning of the season. Midfield is weak, only Song is worthy to be on the starting eleven.

Theo is suffering from TSF syndrom.

Wenger out! :coffee:

[alexander]

we need to give up on players. Arsh, benny, cham, theo, they just not got it, but he keeps on beleiving in them, and they let him down.

[topgun]

This is what happens when you assemble a squad with so much dross in it ,Well done Wenger.

[Master Splinter]

Not good.

Ref was their 14th man, alongside Theo and Arshavin.

Swansea were the better team though. We did assist them pretty well by giving them chances.

Theo, Arshavin, Ramsey have been far too poor recently to deserve a place in the team. Rosicky, Oxlade-Chamberlain and even a crocked Henry should start the next game.

Djourou, Miquel and Koscielny, as ever, deserve credit.

[hobson's choice]

Are you sure you went back out that second time?

Yeah, 4 times.

[Niall_Quinn]

Arshavin shocking. Theo scored but his goal doesn't excuse a performance like that. Ox looks twice the player and he needs to be given his chance now. Plus we absolutely have to play two up top. RvP is not a Shearer style striker, he has a broader game and often needs to go deep to get the ball because the fucktards on the wings can't cross or pass to save their lives.

[Ollie the Optimist]

poor game from us and cant really have any complainaints over the loss as swansea deserved but another fucking dive given as a penalty against us. refs need to sort it out

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah, 4 times.

Noooooooooo! It was only meant to be twice. Your fucking fault, hope you are happy!

[alexander]

Arshavin shocking. Theo scored but his goal doesn't excuse a performance like that. Ox looks twice the player and he needs to be given his chance now. Plus we absolutely have to play two up top. RvP is not a Shearer style striker, he has a broader game and often needs to go deep to get the ball because the fucktards on the wings can't cross or pass to save their lives.

fucktards :jumpnana:

[Niall_Quinn]

Dyer the lying cunt still trying to con people it was a pen.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Take the lead in the last two games = 0 points. We've been here before I think.

[Joker]

Shocking result, and we were completely outplayed by a newly promoted side. This would never have happened 5 years ago, and it's just another sign of how the quality of our squad has deteriorated over time. However, this doesn't bother Wenger or the board, because the money keeps rolling in through sponsorship deals, ticket sales, Champions League money etc. Now, given that we're most likely not going to finish in the top 4, wonder what *******'s excuse will be.

We don't need a yes man at the club anyone, we need someone to stand up to the board and put a greater emphasis on winning rather than making money.

WENGER OUT!

[Marc Overmars]

Look on the brightside, at least Spurs have to visit the top teams. :coffee:

:Deluded:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Dyer the lying cunt still trying to con people it was a pen.

Wenger has his excuse then

[Niall_Quinn]

Shocking result, and we were completely outplayed by a newly promoted side. This would never have happened 5 years ago, and it's just another sign of how the quality of our squad has deteriorated over time. However, this doesn't bother Wenger or the board, because the money keeps rolling in through sponsorship deals, ticket sales, Champions League money etc. Now, given that we're most likely not going to finish in the top 4, wonder what *******'s excuse will be.

We don't need a yes man at the club anyone, we needs someone to stand up to the board and put a greater emphasis on winning rather than making money.

WENGER OUT!

The board isn't even watching. It's over in the States selling hotdogs and NFL shirts.

[Newguy]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned how poor Ramsey is. This kid is overrated. Loses possession time and time again, poor work rate, could see he wanted to come off. Doesnt deserve a starting place.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

The board isn't even watching. It's over in the States selling hotdogs and NFL shirts.

They do have more sense than us then.

[Niall_Quinn]

Okay then, Mindless Optimism Clique let's be 'avin you.

[Joker]

Look on the brightside, at least Spurs have to visit the top teams. :coffee:

:Deluded:

Man City have been financially doping don't you know, we can't compete with a club that runs on petrol while we run on sweat :*******:

[Niall_Quinn]

They do have more sense than us then.

True.

The board :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned how poor Ramsey is. This kid is overrated. Loses possession time and time again, poor work rate, could see he wanted to come off. Doesnt deserve a starting place.

He's had better games this season.

But I said in the match thread he bottled it today, right from the off I thought he was caught up by the reception he recieved and the fact he was playing in Wales.

[LDG]

That was pathetic.

[Niall_Quinn]

COCK!

What a shit day!

[Dog Toffee]

Scored 2 goals away from home. Only 4 points off 4th place with a shaky Chelsea to catch and nearly half a season to do it in. Many players due back from injury soon too.

[Marc Overmars]

LWDWLL.

4th place? You're having a laugh.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Okay then, Mindless Optimism Clique let's be 'avin you.

Only team to score 2 at the liberty this season tbf.

[Joker]

Can anyone remember the last time we won with a good performance? I think it was way back in November.

[Boss]

Joke of a performance, joke of a side.

Same problems that have plagued us over the last five years, replacing star quality with youth or dross and expecting us not to struggle.

For all the talk of the experience we brought in during the summer giving us the ability to close out the game and more committed performances, we looked like we couldn't be arsed against a very eager Swansea side and they fully deserved their win.

Theo, Arshavin, Djourou, Benayoun, Rosicky, clearly not good enough, Ramsey not yet ready to be a first team starter. Not sure why Wenger keeps persisting with our garbagewingers when Chamberlain is hungry and shows he can at least make a difference. All the talk about him being worse defensively... can't think how he could be more shite defensively than Theo or Arshavin.

Need to spend big this January, as we have needed to over the last few seasons but we won't and expect more of the same until Wenger leaves.

[Özim]

Not surprised, on paper it's a pile of sh*t team and on the pitch it's a pile of sh*t team, a few decent results doesn't really hide that.

Trouble is you get a run of a few games where we win and everything is forgotten even if we don't actually play well to win, Wenger f*cked up the start of the season so he needed a good run, but as is usual with us it eventually goes pear shaped again.

This team isn't good enough end of, there's no sugar coating it....we need quality and Wenger's not capable of finding the players we need, he needs to go.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Can anyone remember the last time we won with a good performance? I think it was way back in November.

Chelsea most probs, even though we were missing loads of 1st teamers today, we should have done better then that, the defence looked scared every time they came forward

we really need TV5, Sagna, A world class LB quickly or it will get worse.

if this won't force Aw into the market nothing will.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That was pathetic.

Thats being nice

[Marc Overmars]

Funny thing is, we'll probably beat United next week.

[notwist]

Why the fuck is Frimpong on loan to Wolves and playing like a monster and Benayoun starting for us? What the fuck is going on?

[LDG]

Getting beyond a joke now. If we play like that against Utd, we'll get butt rapes for the second time this year.Sort it out wenger you mug.

[Fats]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned how poor Ramsey is. This kid is overrated. Loses possession time and time again, poor work rate, could see he wanted to come off. Doesnt deserve a starting place.

spot on

[Joker]

Chelsea most probs, even though we were missing loads of 1st teamers today, we should have done better then that, the defence looked scared every time they came forward

we really need TV5, Sagna, A world class LB quickly or it will get worse.

if this won't force Aw into the market nothing will.

That actually was one of our few fluent performances this season, and it was at the end of October! :lol:

[Arsenal Fan]

the only way we qualify for the CL is if we win it this season....trolololololololololol

[Fats]

Out witted by Martin Jol and now by Brendan Rodgers with the latter only been a manager for just over 3 years and not one season in the premiership.

Wenger one of the best managers in the world??

He is not in the top 5 managers in the premiership!!!!

[notwist]

May I politely (no, pointedly) suggest that the Arsenal Board have a close look at a few contracts and see which ones they can run down, and who they can ship out, how they can churn over this dispirited bunch. I would advocate keeping: Szczesny, Sagna, Koscielny, Miquel, Song, Wilshere, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Van Persie. Possibly bring back Frimpong. Why the hell is he on loan to Wolves when Benayoun is starting anyway? The rest can just go fuck off and the tight-assed Board can surely pick up some decent talent on the cheap from Swansea, Norwich, West Brom and Wigan (all good passing teams who actually bother to graft as well) to replace this utter load of twonk.

[Alpha]

Lets try to see what happened today without any emotion . Well we were the worse team without question but why ?
Firstly the line-up was not impressive . Rosicky should have started instead of Ramsey or Benayoun .
Secondly Wenger took too long to spot the weakness of his team . He should have made changes earlier when Arsenal looked jaded .
Thirdly their penalty wasn't one . It was a foul to Arsenal but Swansea got it lucky .
Fourthly Metersacker miss was top class . It was the miss of the century . It stabbed everyone especially Henry . It killed their hope and confidence of a come back .
Fifthly Wingers were inexistant . Walcott and Arshavin offered nothing today .Putting the two makeshift full backs under immense pressure .
Sixthly Miquel had another solid performance . The defeat can't take it away from him .
And Seventhly Song , Djourou and Ramsey were the villains today : keeping the ball unnecessarily and gifting the opposition
Conclusion : one of the worst games from Arsenal and they deserved to lose today .

[Olivier's xmas twist]

the only way we qualify for the CL is if we win it this season....trolololololololololol

Knowing us we probs will

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Lets try to see what happened today without any emotion . Well we were the worse team without question but why ?
Firstly the line-up was not impressive . Rosicky should have started instead of Ramsey or Benayoun .
Secondly Wenger took too long to spot the weakness of his team . He should have made changes earlier when Arsenal looked jaded .
Thirdly their penalty wasn't one . It was a foul to Arsenal but Swansea got it lucky .
Fourthly Metersacker miss was top class . It was the miss of the century . It stabbed everyone especially Henry . It killed their hope and confidence of a come back .
Fifthly Wingers were inexistant . Walcott and Arshavin offered nothing today .Putting the two makeshift full backs under immense pressure .
Sixthly Miquel had another solid performance . The defeat can't take it away from him .
And Seventhly Song , Djourou and Ramsey were the villains today : keeping the ball unnecessarily and gifting the opposition
Conclusion : one of the worst games from Arsenal and they deserved to lose today .


I'd take that

[tigerthesmurf85]

Too much crap playing too many games. Arshavin and Rosicky have no reason to be anywhere near the squad. Djourou is a terrible right back. Walcott was awful today although I still think he could be a good player. Ramsey didn't have a great game either.

There need to be many changes, but seems like we've been saying that for a while.

[Niall_Quinn]

Knowing us we probs will

Or we might bottle it, that's always a possibility.

[tigerthesmurf85]

Lets try to see what happened today without any emotion . Well we were the worse team without question but why ?
Firstly the line-up was not impressive . Rosicky should have started instead of Ramsey or Benayoun .
Secondly Wenger took too long to spot the weakness of his team . He should have made changes earlier when Arsenal looked jaded .
Thirdly their penalty wasn't one . It was a foul to Arsenal but Swansea got it lucky .
Fourthly Metersacker miss was top class . It was the miss of the century . It stabbed everyone especially Henry . It killed their hope and confidence of a come back .
Fifthly Wingers were inexistant . Walcott and Arshavin offered nothing today .Putting the two makeshift full backs under immense pressure .
Sixthly Miquel had another solid performance . The defeat can't take it away from him .
And Seventhly Song , Djourou and Ramsey were the villains today : keeping the ball unnecessarily and gifting the opposition
Conclusion : one of the worst games from Arsenal and they deserved to lose today .

Rosicky is absolutely awful. Would much rather Benayoun or Ramsey. Rest of what you say is right though.

[Grebbo]

We have returned to form. Our winning streak was a blip.

We are so fucking shit that you have to laugh.

[Bergkampwonderland10]

Funny thing is, we'll probably beat United next week.
We won't - not with the team out there today. Bar Van Persie's goal the worst first half performance of the season. Second half performance at Fulham and Blackburn will be hard to beat!

[Grebbo]

The rest can just go fuck off and the tight-assed Board can surely pick up some decent talent on the cheap from Swansea, Norwich, West Brom and Wigan (all good passing teams who actually bother to graft as well) to replace this utter load of twonk.

Pointless. As soon as they join us they'll stop working hard.

Wenger coaches it out of them.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Or we might bottle it, that's always a possibility.

Touche.

[Bergkampwonderland10]

I like Ramsey a lot but today just went from bad to worse for the lad - he got a lot of stick from the cardiff fans and it affected him big time plus the guy is tired - it's so obvious to see - he needs a rest. Problem is no one to replace him. We are unbelievably light in midfield. As much as the attention is placed on our shitty defence (koscielny excused today) it's our midfield that is the problem.
Rosicky, Benayoun, Diaby (?), Denilson...can all depart in the summer in my book. Arshavin won't last another season in the premiership although the last two games have shown his 'missing' work ethic. Which leaves us with Song (who is way too comfortable at the moment with no competition) who had one of his worst performances today again, Ramsey who I rate highly (but is being overplayed for a player who had a double leg break a year ago) Wilshere (who we are yet to see this season) Walcott, who can only score once in a blue moon and plays at 50% every game, the OX who seems to be raw and direct and just what we need right now, and Arteta...who has been a blessing to us this season - we missed him today badly. Our midfield is so lightweight it's amazing we even have 36 points. We were out-played, out-classed out-passed out everything today and it was very sad to see the contrast. Wenger doesn't like the january window - well who cares - he's got a chance to go get some players and ship some out permanently - and he should.

[Alpha]

Rosicky is absolutely awful. Would much rather Benayoun or Ramsey. Rest of what you say is right though.
I don't think I can agree with you here . Rosicky was a culprit before he got injured but this season he worked his socks off . He keeps the ball better than both Benayoun and Ramsey . He plays intelligently doen't give the ball away in dangerous positions . He can tackle and shoot better than them . He is far better than Benayoun now and at 20 ,he was much better than what Ramsey is . Did you know the little Mozart ?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I like Ramsey a lot but today just went from bad to worse for the lad - he got a lot of stick from the cardiff fans and it affected him big time plus the guy is tired - it's so obvious to see - he needs a rest. Problem is no one to replace him. We are unbelievably light in midfield. As much as the attention is placed on our shitty defence (koscielny excused today) it's our midfield that is the problem.
Rosicky, Benayoun, Diaby (?), Denilson...can all depart in the summer in my book. Arshavin won't last another season in the premiership although the last two games have shown his 'missing' work ethic. Which leaves us with Song (who is way too comfortable at the moment with no competition) who had one of his worst performances today again, Ramsey who I rate highly (but is being overplayed for a player who had a double leg break a year ago) Wilshere (who we are yet to see this season) Walcott, who can only score once in a blue moon and plays at 50% every game, the OX who seems to be raw and direct and just what we need right now, and Arteta...who has been a blessing to us this season - we missed him today badly. Our midfield is so lightweight it's amazing we even have 36 points. We were out-played, out-classed out-passed out everything today and it was very sad to see the contrast. Wenger doesn't like the january window - well who cares - he's got a chance to go get some players and ship some out permanently - and he should.

We could have had Vorm, Graham and Dyer in our team and would have won that game today. Think we missed GEV badly today he beats players we had no one who did that today.

Theo for me is annoying me the guy goes on about how he should ger 85K a week but performs poor miind you know our board/manager he will get it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Sell Theo and Arshavin right now. And use the funds to pay a couple of decent players. Either that or give the cash to the board so they can buy rent boys. It's a win regardless. How many chances do we give to players who never perform?

[Coney]

Sell Theo and Arshavin right now. And use the funds to pay a couple of decent players. Either that or give the cash to the board so they can buy rent boys. It's a win regardless. How many chances do we give to players who never perform?

Too many, is the answer. :good:

[Marc Overmars]

Did you know the little Mozart ?

Yeah, one of the highest rated prospects in Europe.

Until he joined Arsenal.

[IBK]

Very, very disappointing...although it is merely the latest in a series of demoralizing results. I'm afraid that injuries or not it's the 'streak' we were on a month or so ago that now seems the aberration, and these kinds of performances the normal level of this team. I'm not for singling out individual players. As a team we are not good enough - and nothing says it more eloquently than the fact that we were outplayed by a team of players who on paper are inferior to ours. We lack creativity, hunger, star quality, ideas and bottle - let alone basic qualities such as concentration and proper communication. The way we conceded their third was laughable!

Its easy to be knee jerk after a performance and result like this, but I am afraid that we are too mediocre for a 4th place finish this season. And I think that the manager's refusal to bring in the calibre of player we need will result in our best player again leaving in the Summer and a further drift down the EPL.

[Niall_Quinn]

Too many, is the answer. :good:

Cool, I've wanted to know the answer to that for ages.

[Bergkampwonderland10]

We could have had Vorm, Graham and Dyer in our team and would have won that game today. Think we missed GEV badly today he beats players we had no one who did that today.

Theo for me is annoying me the guy goes on about how he should ger 85K a week but performs poor miind you know our board/manager he will get it.

Gervinho's end product hasn't quite happened but he beats players every time with his trickery and quick feet. Hopefully his end product will magically appear when he returns. Vorm is an excellent keeper, Graham can finish with aplomb and Dyer too. I also rate Sinclair who I remember from his Chelsea days. I really don't think Walcott is planning to stay with us beyond this season and has probably been tapped up by Man $ity already. He really doesn't play for the shirt or look like there is any passion. He rarely puts in a shift for a full 70 minutes let alone 90 and it's so disappointing. Too much too young and not a natural footballing brain so the coaching of him seems to have backfired. Lennon and Ashley Young are a hundred times better and should both be ahead of him in the Euros if that's what he's saving himself for.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Gervinho's end product hasn't quite happened but he beats players every time with his trickery and quick feet. Hopefully his end product will magically appear when he returns. Vorm is an excellent keeper, Graham can finish with aplomb and Dyer too. I also rate Sinclair who I remember from his Chelsea days. I really don't think Walcott is planning to stay with us beyond this season and has probably been tapped up by Man $ity already. He really doesn't play for the shirt or look like there is any passion. He rarely puts in a shift for a full 70 minutes let alone 90 and it's so disappointing. Too much too young and not a natural footballing brain so the coaching of him seems to have backfired. Lennon and Ashley Young are a hundred times better and should both be ahead of him in the Euros if that's what he's saving himself for.

yep can't disagree 1 bit

[Alpha]

Yeah, one of the highest rated prospects in Europe.

Until he joined Arsenal.
Unfortunately his injuries didn't help and Wenger willingness not to replace good players who leave make it hard . But ,once upon a time there was a great player called Tomas Rosicky .....

[Coney]

Cool, I've wanted to know the answer to that for ages.

np. You only had to ask. :good:

[Syn]

A disappointing game but not an entirely surprising one. There has obviously been a lack of quality for some time. We were out-passed by Swansea and we'll get outplayed by many teams by the end of this season. We have lost the resilience that we admired when we had Jenkinson and Santos bombing forward in attack and Vermaelen, Koscielny at the back twatting everything clear. Ramsey, Song and Arteta have slowly faded out of form. Gervinho appears to be the Chamakh of this season - a bright spark initially but failed to continue and now his confidence is in tatters. Walcott hasn't grown up. It has been very frustrating to see the rebuilding done after the disastrous start get shattered quite subtly.

Despite how the media keep portraying us, we are not a technically gifted team any more. And I'm ok with that. It was quite clear even Swansea are at least similar in terms of ability. But the thing that most observers will underrate is the value of confidence. Sinclair etc. are able to link up well because they're confident they'll link up well. When Arshavin, Van Persie, Walcott, Ramsey, Song etc. had the ball in attacking areas, they didn't look comfortable and they didn't look certain with their movement. Everything is always very wishy-washy, ad-hoc and confusing. This is simply bad management. The players are just not prepared right now.

[Globalgunner]

This is a condition that has been a long time in the making. I have long switched off Wenger because his deficiencies are so obvious. He is agood but not great manager who has had the luck of finding himself in the ideal place where his delusions of self granduer are indulged and nourished. He will NEVER achieved great things. A man who had a collection of unique talents such as his team of 2004, Henry, Bergy, Vieira, Pires, campbell, mad German goalie, etc and could not win the big prize cannot be expected to do anything with the dross on show today. He cannot motivate players to be better than they currently are and does not instill the needed warrior spirit in less motivated teams. If we didnt have Keown,Campbell and Paddy to instil the needed drive in those teams they would not even have done the deeds they did then. We have the perfect storm of a incapable manager, inadequate players and unambitious board. I used to get myself worked up faff around pretending to have invented a new way of playing football. the fear is that the few genuine talents we do have Sagna, Verm, Chesney, Van Persie will seek pastures new and then we will really be in the proverbial shit creek. Arsene knows nothing and we should stop deluding ourselves. We are fast becoming a joke pity is it just aint funny no more

[Cripps_orig]

Didnt watch the game

Just read the report

Ramsey had another shocker then?

Does him breaking his leg in a couple of years ago still give him leeway for certain people?

Defence is awful. Time Kos was put down

[Cripps_orig]

LWDWLL.

4th place? You're having a laugh.Yeah but we're on a good run cos we won a few games in October

:Letters:

[Cripps_orig]

Pointless. As soon as they join us they'll stop working hard.

Wenger coaches it out of them.Theres a name for that

Wengeritis

[Niall_Quinn]

Didnt watch the game

Just read the report

Ramsey had another shocker then?

Does him breaking his leg in a couple of years ago still give him leeway for certain people?

Defence is awful. Time Kos was put down

Kos was comfortably the man of the match, you should probably watch the games so you are at least up to speed. The two worst players on the pitch by a considerable margin were Arshavin and, as usual, Theo Walcott. Obviously we need to get rid of both these wasters but Wenger persists for some reason.

He also started Yossi Benayoun in the middle and that could only ever have ended in one way, disaster. It took us losing the lead before Wenger made the changes. Stubborn to the last.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Does Wenger not cringe when picking Walcott and Arshavin? For that matter, Gervinho too? This is a farce. I don't want to watch them playing football. Fuck sake.

[Alpha]

Ramsey was awful today . some decision makings let Scesny down . Coming unnecessarily out of his goal . Koscielny was solid as usual but one good defender can not do all by himself . Miquel also had a solid game . He is very promising indeed . But the midfield was dire . Ramsey , Song and Benayoun could not control the middle of the park . They couldn't break any Swansea attack or provide ammunitions to the strikers . Djourou made some decent interceptions but he was a calamity as expected .

[Xhaka Can’t]

Ramsey is pretty much awful every day.

[fakeyank]

We are shit! AW is shite!

[gunnerrrrr]

Ramsey is pretty much awful every day.
This.
he is not ready to run a midfield, he is slow, ditters on the ball,gives it away etc etc

[Joker]

I actually rate Ramsey, but he's been poor for a long time now. I haven't given up on him, but ideally he would be taken out of the firing line but we don't have many midfield options at the moment.

[Özim]

Just seem Metersacker's miss :haha:he really is sh*t.

[Cripps_orig]

Just seem Metersacker's miss :haha:he really is sh*t.Youre judging a CB on a miss?

In that case, Henry was shit for us cos he cant defend :lol:

Zimm logic :bow:

[Ollie the Optimist]

if RVP wasnt having such an unbelievable season then Kos would be our player of the season by a mile. he is simply superb this season, keeping us in games with great timing, interceptions. today he was brilliant again, let down by others. wenger has signed a gem here

[Cripps_orig]

So the first 15 months have been wiped from your memory?

[Niall_Quinn]

So the first 15 months have been wiped from your memory?

He took a year and he was a liability during that time. But now he's one of the best in the league. Playing great. Shame a few others couldn't follow his lead.

[Özim]

Koscielny got done for the 3rd goal today when Graham got behind him.

[Niall_Quinn]

Koscielny got done for the 3rd goal today when Graham got behind him.

Even if that's true, and I don't recall it, it's a mistake. Even Zak Knight makes mistakes.

[Cripps_orig]

Read he made a mistake for a goal as well.

Not sure which. Havent seen any but i trust the source.

Will watch MOTD2. Need a laugh

[Power n Glory]

These results have been on the cards for a while now. You could slowly see the team falling apart. The middle has always been a problem and against teams with good possession play, we were bound to struggle. Considering the Fulham game, you would have thought Wenger would have learned his lesson regarding the midfield but he never learns. There is no structure in that midfield and he should have told Ramsey to curb his runs forward and let Yossi play on ahead. He should have focussed on winning back possession and keeping it. Swansea are a very good passing side and he should have done his homework.

We said months ago that results like these would be on the cards if we didn't freshen up and pisses me off that Wenger constantly fails to spot the signs. Every year he runs the team ragged into the ground and does nothing when we start playingike shit. Nk new personal or ideas and never benches players that are really falling away. Ramsey has been shit for ages. Theo shouldn't be starting. We cross this bridge again and again.

[Niall_Quinn]

You have to wonder why all our injuries last twenty years. That problem hasn't gone away either. Can it really be just bad luck, year after year?

[Cripps_orig]

You have to wonder why all our injuries last twenty years. That problem hasn't gone away either. Can it really be just bad luck, year after year?Its well known we have the worst medical staff in the business

[Power n Glory]

Training methods are fucking up the players or something.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger after the match, "I think we panicked a bit too quickly today."

He may be on to something there, perhaps we should take our time when we are panicking.


on the game…
The game was difficult because Swansea played well. It was also decided by some strange decisions from the referee, who gave a penalty that was complete imagination.

From then on I thought there were some odd turning points, like when we came back to 2-2 and made a defensive mistake straight away. It looked similar to Fulham to me, the lack of appreciation for the ball. Our defensive performance was not good enough and that's why we lost the game.

When we got back to 2-2 I thought we could win the game because I thought we could be dangerous. The keeper kept them in the game after too and made some great saves.

I think we also missed some unbelievable chances that are very difficult to understand and explain. But apart from that, well done to Swansea, they played well and deserved the win.

on defensive frailties…
Coincidences are always against us and it is difficult to understand what is going on. I don't know, I feel we are a bit too nervous. We cannot panic every time they have the ball in the final third of the pitch. We have to show more composure and ambition. I think we panicked a bit too quickly today.

It is always a concern but on the other hand there is a good spirit in the side and a desire to do well. But we have dropped six points in a row now that we should not have.

[Niall_Quinn]

No mention of Arshavin and Walcott. Bet they even play the next game.

[Cripps_orig]

Arshavin now cos Chamakh isnt around :lol:

This is quality stuff

[Niall_Quinn]

Arshavin now cos Chamakh isnt around :lol:

This is quality stuff

No, because he's playing shit. Don't you watch the games?

[Marc Overmars]

If we shit our pants about Swansea what hope do we have against Milan?

[Cripps_orig]

No hope.

[Niall_Quinn]

THIERRY HENRY'S dream Premier League return turned into a bitter nightmare last night.
The Gunners legend was involved in a confrontation with his own fans after a humiliating defeat at Swansea.

Henry, 34, had persuaded shellshocked team-mates to acknowledge the thousands of travelling fans who had just witnessed their SIXTH away defeat of the season.

*But a small group of supporters slammed the players — prompting an angry response from striker Henry, who only rejoined the club on loan from America last week.

The Frenchman appeared to have a heated exchange with one fan, making gestures before storming off the pitch.

A Gunners source said: "Thierry had encouraged his team-mates to go and acknowledge the fans and show their appreciation for the people who made the long journey to Swansea.

"Unfortunately one or two of them had a few things to say and expressed their disappointment.

"One in particular was shouting 'Where is the heart and the character and the fight?'

"Thierry shouted back 'Get behind the team and support the players and don't be negative.'"

Hardly a nightmare but it's quite funny that TH had a bust up with Ach.

[Cripps_orig]

Henry should STFU

[Power n Glory]

Hardly a nightmare but it's quite funny that TH had a bust up with Ach.

I can understand where Henry is coming from but he's fighting a losing battle. The players are trying to show fight and character but it's beyond them. This is bad management. I don't think there is a single player out there not trying his best. When you're in a slump you're in a slump. Wenger just can't turn it around or organise the team so we're getting more out of certain players. This isn't a matter of choice. The players and manager are out of ideas.

[Niall_Quinn]

Henry should STFU

Obviously he has no right to comment on matters concerning Arsenal.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Missed first half because decided to fall asleep......got up for the second and wish I hadn't.......

I have to agree that Arshavin and Theo are not really doing it either.....even Theo's goal didn't impress me because as soon as he was put through.....I thought he was going to miss it! he scored but so he should, he gets at least one a game like that and scores it one out of 10...the rest of the game he was crap.

Arshavin should be sold, there is no two ways about it. Oxo should start not because I see a series of wins coming because of it, because I see more passion.

I have said that I see a different mentality about the team, more balance than before.....that we are even better than last year.....I stick by that in a broad sense but last night and Fulham, holy shit.....we were looking at the Arsenal that was taking the field this time last year and you know what happened then......there is something about the turn of the year that brings on bouts of diarrhea!

I really thought that we were going to stake our claim for one of the top spots over the last few games and believe we had a chance but we choked, points dropped and not much to look forward to......Utd up next.....need to et a grip or as everyone is saying those mediocre goals (4th) could prove to be a bit difficult.

10 points behind Spuds :doh: who would have thought it?

BTW I thought Miquel played decent, what's that 5th LB of the season......can't say we ain't unlucky!

Come on Arsenal

[fakeyank]

Positive of this team: They do seem to try hard. For a change, I cannot doubt the commitment of this team.

Negatives of this team: Unfortunately there is no talent whatsoever beside RVP, TV5 and Szczesny! Our midfield 3 is hopelessly bad. It says a lot when Song looks like Zidane. AW needs to go after this season. Anyone who still stands up for this man is just doing it to be a WUM. He is a liability and I dont want to hear the BS excuse that we stayed competitive to be 4th for the last few seasons.. we couldve won done much better under a world class manager. AW is a stubborn and unfortunately very strong person at Arsenal.. I just dont know how we are going to get rid of him! May be he will resign out of shame of what he had done (98-06) to what he is doing now... unfortunately it seems that 6 million quid a year takes that shame away!

[Flavs]

Played well I thought, competed all over the pitch and stood up to what is quite a potent attacking side. Ramsey and Benayoun did well and Theo and Arshavin were a constant threat due to their hard-working nature and skill on the ball. We were unlucky with the result really it wasn't a penalty and we Metersacker (Who is really very good) missed a good chance late on when distracted by Henry.

The only downside other than the result were the performances of Koscielny and Miguel, neither of whom should be anywhere near a football field let alone an Arsenal starting X1

[Xhaka Can’t]

Henry should STFU

Take your own advice and jog on.

[Coney]

I don't see a lot of praise for Swansea. Sure, we had chances we should have taken to win the game and that is something that needs sorting urgently, but Swansea have a good home record and are still in the honeymoon period of a new team having good success for the first season.

We have ourselves to blame for not taking our winning chances, but Swansea should be praised for their positive approach to their games this season.

[LDG]

Played well I thought, competed all over the pitch and stood up to what is quite a potent attacking side. Ramsey and Benayoun did well and Theo and Arshavin were a constant threat due to their hard-working nature and skill on the ball. We were unlucky with the result really it wasn't a penalty and we Metersacker (Who is really very good) missed a good chance late on when distracted by Henry.

The only downside other than the result were the performances of Koscielny and Miguel, neither of whom should be anywhere near a football field let alone an Arsenal starting X1

:lol:

[Champagne Charlie]

Another disappointing performance and we got exactly what we deserved from it – nothing.
Not much to add that hasn’t already be said in this thread but one thing I do think has been overlooked a bit in our recent run of bad games is the impact of having no natural fullbacks in the side. One of the key components of our attacking game is the overlapping fullbacks and by not having them it upsets the whole balance of the team.
And that’s not to make excuses for the poor results and performances, or to knock any of the several centre backs who have filled in out wide, just merely to point out I think it’s a key part of our style of play and perhaps one that sometimes we don’t appreciate just how important it is until its no longer there.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Played well I thought, competed all over the pitch and stood up to what is quite a potent attacking side. Ramsey and Benayoun did well and Theo and Arshavin were a constant threat due to their hard-working nature and skill on the ball. We were unlucky with the result really it wasn't a penalty and we Metersacker (Who is really very good) missed a good chance late on when distracted by Henry.

The only downside other than the result were the performances of Koscielny and Miguel, neither of whom should be anywhere near a football field let alone an Arsenal starting X1

Brilliant! :lol:

[Xhaka Can’t]

I don't see a lot of praise for Swansea. Sure, we had chances we should have taken to win the game and that is something that needs sorting urgently, but Swansea have a good home record and are still in the honeymoon period of a new team having good success for the first season.

We have ourselves to blame for not taking our winning chances, but Swansea should be praised for their positive approach to their games this season.

Swansea can FOAD

[Flavs]

One of the key components of our attacking game is the overlapping fullbacks and by not having them it upsets the whole balance of the team.

Then we should be adaptable enough to change tactics to compensate for the loss really, another management fail

[Flavs]

Brilliant! :lol:


I thought that was what we did on here, said the opposite of everyone else?

[LDG]

Another disappointing performance and we got exactly what we deserved from it – nothing.
Not much to add that hasn’t already be said in this thread but one thing I do think has been overlooked a bit in our recent run of bad games is the impact of having no natural fullbacks in the side. One of the key components of our attacking game is the overlapping fullbacks and by not having them it upsets the whole balance of the team.
And that’s not to make excuses for the poor results and performances, or to knock any of the several centre backs who have filled in out wide, just merely to point out I think it’s a key part of our style of play and perhaps one that sometimes we don’t appreciate just how important it is until its no longer there.

Yeah, been saying this for the last few weeks. And you're right of course.

Doesn't really excuse yesterday though. This was all to do with losing possession in the middle of the park EVERY time we got the ball. And having wingers who showed no desire to get involved.

[Marc Overmars]

Then we should be adaptable enough to change tactics to compensate for the loss really, another management fail

We've been outplayed by Fulham and Swansea on the spin, although I do think having no fullbacks has ruined us, we've still been in winning positions until crumbling like only we can. It's a fairly limited squad that lacks something special, it needs investment, real investment that is, not selling RVP and use 1/4 of those funds.

[Champagne Charlie]

Then we should be adaptable enough to change tactics to compensate for the loss really, another management fail

Absolutely. Arsene’s never been particularly strong tactically, even in his more successful days.

And he’s never been the quickest to change tactics. Hell, the team is still set up to get the best out of Cesc in the middle!!

[Flavs]

Injuries aside there is nothing wrong with our squad, in fact i am very happy with the way its ended up taking everything into account.

I don't think Theo And RvP will renew their contracts if we don't finish in the top 4 which will be the loss of one good player.

[Champagne Charlie]

Yeah, been saying this for the last few weeks. And you're right of course.

Doesn't really excuse yesterday though. This was all to do with losing possession in the middle of the park EVERY time we got the ball. And having wingers who showed no desire to get involved.

Yeah, not excusing the result, was more of a general musing!

We gave away possession far too cheaply yesterday. In fact, I’m struggling to remember the last time we really bossed a game in midfield from start to finish. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread (sorry, can’t remember who!) some of these players aren’t as “technically gifted” as they’re often given credit for, particularly some of the fringe players.

Decent investment is now crucial, but I just can’t see it happening.

[Flavs]

Also shows just how much we miss Arteta or at least someone who can play the way he does

[Champagne Charlie]

Also shows just how much we miss Arteta or at least someone who can play the way he does

Spot on.

[tigerthesmurf85]

I don't think I can agree with you here . Rosicky was a culprit before he got injured but this season he worked his socks off . He keeps the ball better than both Benayoun and Ramsey . He plays intelligently doen't give the ball away in dangerous positions . He can tackle and shoot better than them . He is far better than Benayoun now and at 20 ,he was much better than what Ramsey is . Did you know the little Mozart ?


Not personally but he was definitely so much better than he is now. I still think he offers nothing now. And his shooting is so far below average.

[GP]

Not personally but he was definitely so much better than he is now. I still think he offers nothing now. And his shooting is so far below average.

I think you're quite wrong there. I think if he'd started the result could have been different. He's very intelligent with his use of the ball and rarely squanders possession. Something we badly lacked without Arteta in the side.

[LDG]

I think you're quite wrong there. I think if he'd started the result could have been different. He's very intelligent with his use of the ball and rarely squanders possession. Something we badly lacked without Arteta in the side.

Agreed.

We held the ball far better in midfield when he came on.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Agreed.

We held the ball far better in midfield when he came on.

:unsure: He was out injured.

[LDG]

:unsure: He was out injured.

He was talking about Ricky :unsure:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

GP mentioned Arteta. :unsure:

Ah I see now. Bye. :getcoat:

[Power n Glory]

Also shows just how much we miss Arteta or at least someone who can play the way he does

Not so sure about that. We struggled against Fulham as well. Just couldn't control the middle of the park.

[Niall_Quinn]

He was talking about Ricky :unsure:

Nah, I have to agree with Mac here. Arteta was definitely injured yesterday and I certainly can't remember him coming on. Watch the game again LDG, no Arteta to be seen. Mind you, Rosicky held the ball a lot better when he came on.

[LDG]

Nah, I have to agree with Mac here. Arteta was definitely injured yesterday and I certainly can't remember him coming on. Watch the game again LDG, no Arteta to be seen. Mind you, Rosicky held the ball a lot better when he came on.

:angry:

[Fist of Lehmann]

Then we should be adaptable enough to change tactics to compensate for the loss really, another management failI know you love your 3 at the back idea but this kind of formation went out of fashion in the 90's.

Like your face etc.

[Flavs]

I know you love your 3 at the back idea but this kind of formation went out of fashion in the 90's.

Like your face etc.

My face has never been in fashion tbf

Cant play 3-5-2 with no wing backs and to even mention that around the Arsenal training camp would lead to another injured player. How many players do we have injured? Seriously? 30? 40?

[Boss]

:lol: at people thinking an average midfielder would make any difference to our performances.

Arteta wouldn't have changed the result yesterday.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm over it now. This season is a bust. I'm going to milk each minor and insignificant victory from now on, like our upcoming triumph over Utd. Not even going to get upset about being able to beat Utd but not teams like Swansea, Fulham or Blackburn. Not going dwell on the fact this shows a severe mental issue still at large within the squad. Not going to lament the fact we can't score goals because we only have one player up top who has a fucking clue (apart from Henry who is off in a few weeks anyway). As long as we go to the spuds and beat them and the loss of points they suffer is the difference between them qualifying for the CL and missing out then I'll be happy enough. Indeed this is so small time you could puke. But we're behaving like a small time club in every way except the wages paid to those who consistently fail. So I'm getting with the program and focusing on more important things in life instead. Like my iPhone, which never lets me down.

I don't actually have an iPhone but if I did I just know I'd be over the moon about it.

[Flavs]

One thing that has occurred to me is that all those undesirables we have out on loan cos we cant sell them, well we will be using them next season as all the good players will leave when we finish 6th and RvP and Walcott leave and we are forced to sell others due to lack of income.

Cant wait to see vela and Bentdner back in Arsenal shirts

[Marc Overmars]

One thing that has occurred to me is that all those undesirables we have out on loan cos we cant sell them, well we will be using them next season as all the good players will leave when we finish 6th and RvP and Walcott leave and we are forced to sell others due to lack of income.

Cant wait to see vela and Bentdner back in Arsenal shirts

Don't forget Denilson. They'll be like new signings.

[Niall_Quinn]

One thing that has occurred to me is that all those undesirables we have out on loan cos we cant sell them, well we will be using them next season as all the good players will leave when we finish 6th and RvP and Walcott leave and we are forced to sell others due to lack of income.

Cant wait to see vela and Bentdner back in Arsenal shirts

That's a worst case scenario. Which also means it's the most likely scenario. So Nick and Vela up front next year with Chamakh on the bench. And people aren't enjoying this season?

Gather ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old Time is still a-flying;
And this same flower that smiles today,
Tomorrow will be dying.

[Marc Overmars]

On a side note, we have the worst defensive record away from home this season. :lol:

25 goals shipped in 11 games. :bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

On a side note, we have the worst defensive record away from home this season. :lol:

25 goals shipped in 11 games. :bow:

12 of them against Utd and Blackeye at the start of the season though. Our record was always going to be a joke after that. There have been times this season when the defence looked very solid, not many times but a few. You have to factor the injuries into that. Losing ALL our FBs is just a sick joke. Then we lose the emergency back-ups too. I'm not sure that just another 13 goals since the opening is as bad as it looks given our randomised defence. Even Chesney is struggling now with all the changes in front of him. And the kicker is all of the injuries have been long term. Why the fuck is that? Happens every year. Wilshere out of the middle too and Theo as fit as a fiddle, how can any team cope with that?

[LDG]

Gather ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old Time is still a-flying;
And this same flower that smiles today,
Tomorrow will be dying.

RVP's gone, Denilsons back,
We've still got Bender and that twat Chamahk;
Theo's at City on double pay
And Arshavin can't be arsed today

The waiting period is now until May
Except for divi's and managers pay
We can't compete! Inflated Zones!
Poor old Pat still putting out the cones

Henry's gone, but Wrighty's back
He'll do a job, on one attack
8%, you're having bubble






Yeah. 2 tickets please. We'll do the double.

[Fist of Lehmann]

My face has never been in fashion tbf

Cant play 3-5-2 with no wing backs and to even mention that around the Arsenal training camp would lead to another injured player. How many players do we have injured? Seriously? 30? 40?Not so many. Just anyone and everyone who could do a semi-decent job at fullback. And Windspear, who would help us keep possession at least.

So if not 3-5-2 what tactical adaptation were you alluding to?

[Flavs]

And Windspear, who would help us keep possession at least.

I thought Rosicky did that well when he came on yesterday but not Arteta, cos he wasn't playing

[Flavs]

So if not 3-5-2 what tactical adaptation were you alluding to?

Well with the team we have it would have to be some hybrid version of a 2-7-1

[Niall_Quinn]

I thought Rosicky did that well when he came on yesterday but not Arteta, cos he wasn't playing

LDG thinks Arteta did play :haha:

[LDG]

:haha:

Oh piss off you cunt :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

RVP's gone, Denilsons back,
We've still got Bender and that twat Chamahk;
Theo's at City on double pay
And Arshavin can't be arsed today

The waiting period is now until May
Except for divi's and managers pay
We can't compete! Inflated Zones!
Poor old Pat still putting out the cones

Henry's gone, but Wrighty's back
He'll do a job, on one attack
8%, you're having bubble






Yeah. 2 tickets please. We'll do the double.

So Pat Rice is a coner now? Harsh.

[Ernesto]

Still can't believe we got out-footballed by those Welsh w@nkers.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Why? We're playing shit at the moment.

Even Stoke could out-football us right now. And they don't even play football.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Positive of this team: They do seem to try hard. For a change, I cannot doubt the commitment of this team.

Negatives of this team: Unfortunately there is no talent whatsoever beside RVP, TV5 and Szczesny! Our midfield 3 is hopelessly bad. It says a lot when Song looks like Zidane. AW needs to go after this season. Anyone who still stands up for this man is just doing it to be a WUM. He is a liability and I dont want to hear the BS excuse that we stayed competitive to be 4th for the last few seasons.. we couldve won done much better under a world class manager. AW is a stubborn and unfortunately very strong person at Arsenal.. I just dont know how we are going to get rid of him! May be he will resign out of shame of what he had done (98-06) to what he is doing now... unfortunately it seems that 6 million quid a year takes that shame away!

:gp: Wenger out, FY in

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Why? We're playing shit at the moment.

Even Stoke could out-football us right now. And they don't even play football.

This, see this is why getting beat 8-2 by UTD was a big thing because at the time whoever we played that day would have done us the same.

Were not going to hammer teams this season it won't happen were in liverpool last season mode. More results like this will happen.

[Cripps_orig]

Just seen MOTD highlights

End of the road for Ramsey?

The 3rd goal was ridiculous as well

But il concentrate on the positives. Arshavin assist :bow: Theos great goal :bow:

Good to see them playing well. RVP scoring as well. Apart from these 3, the rest looked gobshite

[Niall_Quinn]

Just seen MOTD highlights

End of the road for Ramsey?

The 3rd goal was ridiculous as well

But il concentrate on the positives. Arshavin assist :bow: Theos great goal :bow:

Good to see them playing well. RVP scoring as well. Apart from these 3, the rest looked gobshite

Amateur WUM'ing.

[Cripps_orig]

Should be more like you then

Before game - Theos shit cos he cant score

After game - Theo scored ffs so i cant use the hes shit cos he cant score line anymore so il have to make up some more BS

That works :good:

[Cripps_orig]

Just seen Dixon talk about Swanseas 3rd

So many mistakes

Henry gave the ball away, players out of position, SHdzjhskdjhny in no mans land.

Ridiculous

I blame the board though :NQ:

[Niall_Quinn]

Should be more like you then

Before game - Theos shit cos he cant score

After game - Theo scored ffs so i cant use the hes shit cos he cant score line anymore so il have to make up some more BS

That works :good:

Good theory, doesn't work in the real world. I said Theo was shite because he's playing shite, not just because he can't score. I could score a goal eventually, so why aren't I playing every week? Come to think of it, I couldn't be any worse than Theo.

But if you really want to insist that Theo and Arshavin played well yesterday then you have the right to be silly.

[Niall_Quinn]

Just seen Dixon talk about Swanseas 3rd

So many mistakes

Henry gave the ball away, players out of position, SHdzjhskdjhny in no mans land.

Ridiculous

I blame the board though :NQ:

All players can make mistakes. When they make them all the time you have to say that's a bad player (unless it's you in which case you say it's a great player). The odd mistake in an otherwise solid performance is different, happens to everyone, Messi, Ronaldo, Zak Knight. But if you are saying Chesney is no good because he made a mistake and therefore conclude that Theo is a good player - do you see how that doesn't follow?

[Cripps_orig]

Good theory, doesn't work in the real world. I said Theo was shite because he's playing shite, not just because he can't score. I could score a goal eventually, so why aren't I playing every week? Come to think of it, I couldn't be any worse than Theo.

But if you really want to insist that Theo and Arshavin played well yesterday then you have the right to be silly.


Have you seen him in front of goal recently? NQ about Theo


We all agree RvP can't score all the goals for the club. So who are next in line to do that job? Chamakh and Walcott. NQ again

Case closed

[Cripps_orig]

All players can make mistakes. When they make them all the time you have to say that's a bad player (unless it's you in which case you say it's a great player). The odd mistake in an otherwise solid performance is different, happens to everyone, Messi, Ronaldo, Zak Knight. But if you are saying Chesney is no good because he made a mistake and therefore conclude that Theo is a good player - do you see how that doesn't follow?Harsh

Ive been calling Kos crap for ages and he makes mistakes all the time. Youre the one along with others on here who thinks hes the best around

As for SKjsdkjshhny, hes decent. Nothing more or less. Would rather have a world class keeper which we wont get so he needs to get better asap

[Niall_Quinn]

Harsh

Ive been calling Kos crap for ages and he makes mistakes all the time. Youre the one along with others on here who thinks hes the best around

As for SKjsdkjshhny, hes decent. Nothing more or less. Would rather have a world class keeper which we wont get so he needs to get better asap

No, I called Kos crap when he was crap, now I call him decent because he's decent. Good luck to the lad for turning his game around.

[Niall_Quinn]

NQ about Theo

NQ again

Case closed

No, case in your face. Statistically Theo was bound to hit the net eventually. Doesn't make him a good player or a goal getter. We need somebody to support the main striker, not screw around 99% of the time and then ask for a pay rise when he gets the odd goal. Game lasts 90 minutes and Theo was shit for 89 and a half of those minutes yesterday. So you have to decide, is his one goal every now and again worth the cost of all the other shit. Answer is logically no but opinions will differ I suppose.

[Cripps_orig]

No, case in your face. Statistically Theo was bound to hit the net eventually. Doesn't make him a good player or a goal getter. We need somebody to support the main striker, not screw around 99% of the time and then ask for a pay rise when he gets the odd goal. Game lasts 90 minutes and Theo was shit for 89 and a half of those minutes yesterday. So you have to decide, is his one goal every now and again worth the cost of all the other shit. Answer is logically no but opinions will differ I suppose.He should have got more goals this season i agree but he got what 10-15 goals last season and the team is generally crap this season. I dont have favourites like yourself. I blame the team and management equally rather than any one player or 2 in your case

[Niall_Quinn]

He should have got more goals this season i agree but he got what 10-15 goals last season and the team is generally crap this season. I dont have favourites like yourself. I blame the team and management equally rather than any one player or 2 in your case

You don't have favourites? :faint:

[Cripps_orig]

Nope. I say it like it is. Always have done, always will do.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nope. I say it like it is. Always have done, always will do.

Pants on fire, you just said Arshavin and Theo played well yesterday. So if there's any case to be rested here it is, plus it's water proof and has wheels so I can tow it around and taunt you with it.

[Cripps_orig]

From what i saw, looked pretty good to me

[Niall_Quinn]

From what i saw, looked pretty good to me

Pie eating competitions don't count.

[bignev]

Nope. I talk shit. Always have done, always will do.

Seems about right.

[Cripps_orig]

Mature

[Xhaka Can’t]

Mature

Maybe it isn't mature, but it is more mature than an out and out transparent lie.

[bignev]

Mature

Well tbh you are talking $hit. How can you say that Walcott and Arshavin are good players when it is obvious to everyone (except you and Wenger) that they are just not good enough. They have both been poor for a while now and I don't see that improving.

[Ollie the Optimist]

the thing with walcott and fat fuck is that we have no choice but to play one of them every game while gervinho not here. Henry is not match fit either so cant start him. if we play the ox which i think we should then still either fat fuck or theo has to play because there is no one else. would rather see theo then fat fuck as at least walcott tracks back

[Niall_Quinn]

Would rather see Theo live up to that early promise. Has he actually improved at all since he first came to the club? I don't think he has. This suggests what we have seen so far is all we'll get. Plus he's had a free ride with the fans up to this point so things should have been easier for him. It might be better to cut him loose and buy a replacement. Maybe we won't have the same pace but we'd benefit from somebody who could pass, cross, hold the ball, beat a man and make the right decision from time to time.

[Syn]

Walcott is too much in the castrated zone. I'd love to see him plant a two-footed lunge, over the ball, and celebrate it. But he won't. Because he's not a ruthless, sick bastard. No time for people like that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Walcott is too much in the castrated zone. I'd love to see him plant a two-footed lunge, over the ball, and celebrate it. But he won't. Because he's not a ruthless, sick bastard. No time for people like that.

I think we're about to see the ruthless side of Theo, but only in terms of contract negotiations.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Walcott is too much in the castrated zone. I'd love to see him plant a two-footed lunge, over the ball, and celebrate it. But he won't. Because he's not a ruthless, sick bastard. No time for people like that.

Say what you like about Theo, but when he sees an obstacle in front of him, he'll run straight into it.

[Syn]

Say what you like about Theo, but when he sees an obstacle in front of him, he'll run straight into it.

:haha:

Fair opint.

[fakeyank]

I would love to see stats about Walcott's pass completion rate and also the number of times he loses the ball when he has it. His finishing stats wont be a pretty read so I am not going to bother looking at that but a winger should have a good pass completion rate and I bet his is probably less than 50%

[Master Splinter]

He passes back successfully to Sagna and Djourou a lot.

Therefore, his stats will be decent overall.

Stats :bow:.

[GP]

:haha:

Fair opint.

opint?

[Power n Glory]

We lost that game in the middle of the park and it was the same against Fulham. We didn't have control of the game. It's been a problem area from day one and early on in the season, people were saying we were more direct, focussing on wing play, playing a more counter attacking game as if it was intentional. It wasn't and Wenger hasn't changed his philosophy on possession play. We just can't keep possession because the midfield trio aren't good enough to bounce the ball around. Song is the best out of all of them when it comes to passing and keeping possession.

We had no cohesion from the centre yesterday and there were massive gaps in the middle of the park. Yossi and Ramsey were all over the place and just couldn't keep a tight unit. Neither are that good at winning the ball back either and they're undisciplined with their movement so Swansea were pretty comfortable on the ball. Wenger didn't get the balance right there and Rosicky should have played ahead of Ramsey. That kid has had too many stinkers and can't conduct a midfield.

The problem is, Wenger wants to play that way and can't adapt. Why not get the team to sit deeper and have Walcott playing off the shoulder of his man, same goes for Arshavin and see if we can RVP to just drop off his man and look to thread either man through on counter attacks or see if Ramsey is any good at picking out long range passes into space instead of the intricate stuff? We only know how to play one way and even with key players injured Wenger is still trying to the same game. Arshavin and Walcott can't beat there man on the flanks. Both are pretty shit at dribbling. But in a straight line race to goal, they'll beat most defenders and not bad at finishing when confident. It's how we got our second goal.

Arshavin and RVP are the most creative players on the filed but one is stuck out wide and the other is high up the field playing as a striker. Why is Arshavin playing on the flanks when Miquel is playing as left back? That's just dangerous. Wenger needs to figure out where the creativity is going to come from and look at the strengths and weakness of his players. Arshavin and Theo can't dribble past players or create from wide positions so why play them there? Ramsey and Yossi aren't great passers either so where is the creativity going to come from? Neither are good at tackling and winning the ball back and we're playing against a team that are very comfortable on the ball and keep possession well. This is why Wenger baffles me. He just doesn't make tactical decisions like other managers. He doesn't take the opposition into consideration or the players he has at his disposal into consideration either. It's like he has tunnel vision. The most rigid manager out of all of the top guys.

[gunnerrrrr]

We lost that game in the middle of the park and it was the same against Fulham. We didn't have control of the game. It's been a problem area from day one and early on in the season, people were saying we were more direct, focussing on wing play, playing a more counter attacking game as if it was intentional. It wasn't and Wenger hasn't changed his philosophy on possession play. We just can't keep possession because the midfield trio aren't good enough to bounce the ball around. Song is the best out of all of them when it comes to passing and keeping possession.

We had no cohesion from the centre yesterday and there were massive gaps in the middle of the park. Yossi and Ramsey were all over the place and just couldn't keep a tight unit. Neither are that good at winning the ball back either and they're undisciplined with their movement so Swansea were pretty comfortable on the ball. Wenger didn't get the balance right there and Rosicky should have played ahead of Ramsey. That kid has had too many stinkers and can't conduct a midfield.

The problem is, Wenger wants to play that way and can't adapt. Why not get the team to sit deeper and have Walcott playing off the shoulder of his man, same goes for Arshavin and see if we can RVP to just drop off his man and look to thread either man through on counter attacks or see if Ramsey is any good at picking out long range passes into space instead of the intricate stuff? We only know how to play one way and even with key players injured Wenger is still trying to the same game. Arshavin and Walcott can't beat there man on the flanks. Both are pretty shit at dribbling. But in a straight line race to goal, they'll beat most defenders and not bad at finishing when confident. It's how we got our second goal.

Arshavin and RVP are the most creative players on the filed but one is stuck out wide and the other is high up the field playing as a striker. Why is Arshavin playing on the flanks when Miquel is playing as left back? That's just dangerous. Wenger needs to figure out where the creativity is going to come from and look at the strengths and weakness of his players. Arshavin and Theo can't dribble past players or create from wide positions so why play them there? Ramsey and Yossi aren't great passers either so where is the creativity going to come from? Neither are good at tackling and winning the ball back and we're playing against a team that are very comfortable on the ball and keep possession well. This is why Wenger baffles me. He just doesn't make tactical decisions like other managers. He doesn't take the opposition into consideration or the players he has at his disposal into consideration either. It's like he has tunnel vision. The most rigid manager out of all of the top guys.

Superb fucking post mate...top quality....post of 2012 so far....spot on.

What concerns me is Wengers inability to try and adapt...Wenger still believes your 11 can play our 11 and if we are better we will win.....yet we no longer have the Bergkamps, Henrys (Prime), Pires etc of this world to make it work

[Coney]

opint?

Guinness. :good:

[Flavs]

I would like to see us play the 4-4-1-1 that Everton do. Play RvP up top as usual but sit Arshavin just behind him, play Gervinho and Walcott a lot deeper but looking to rush forward when we win the ball. It would offer more support for RvP while playing Arshavin in his most effective role, give more protection to the back four, especially the full backs or lack thereof. The only problem is you lose a man in the midfield but playing the wider players further infield should help with that. That would mean a first team of...


-----------------efu2hefu23b2ju----------------

---Sagna-------Kos-------Verm--------Santos

-Walcott--------Song--------Ramteta-----megamind--

-------------------Arshavin--------------

----------------------RvP---------------

[Olivier's xmas twist]

This.
he is not ready to run a midfield, he is slow, ditters on the ball,gives it away etc etc#

He's ok just had a bad game tbh, but i agree he is not ready to run the midfield and put him with Arteta its makes the midfield even worse. We really need a few new midfilders because Jack alone won't do the trick.

Get in the lad from rennes and hazard or Gotze or the lad from Basle.

[Niall_Quinn]

I would like to see us practise and master our passing, crossing and shooting. I'd like our players to decide on one style of football, either simple and efficient or overly complicated and based on percentages (I'd prefer the former myself). I'd like to see our players maybe leaving Twitter aside for a while and instead studying the game afterwards to see where they went wrong and how they can improve. Then I'd like them to remember what they have seen and work hard to ensure they don't make the same mistakes again. I'd like them to stop appearing in the newspapers talking about how Henry will revitalise the team, or how we're on the verge of becoming a super team and instead watch them do all their talking on the pitch. I'd like them to earn the huge amount the are handed each week by giving these things back to the fans who have to dig deep in a time of recession to pay to watch the team. I'd like to hear the fans stop telling Wenger how to run the team and instead try to figure out why he's running the team the way he is and then get behind him. If he fucks it up then I'm happy to hear the fans voice their concerns in the summer when these things can be more properly addressed. I'd like to see the fans listen to a legend like Thierry Henry and take his advice. I believe if the players did all this and the fans did all this the club would be in a much better place and surely that's what both the players and the fans want.

[Power n Glory]

I would like to see us play the 4-4-1-1 that Everton do. Play RvP up top as usual but sit Arshavin just behind him, play Gervinho and Walcott a lot deeper but looking to rush forward when we win the ball. It would offer more support for RvP while playing Arshavin in his most effective role, give more protection to the back four, especially the full backs or lack thereof. The only problem is you lose a man in the midfield but playing the wider players further infield should help with that. That would mean a first team of...


-----------------efu2hefu23b2ju----------------

---Sagna-------Kos-------Verm--------Santos

-Walcott--------Song--------Ramteta-----megamind--

-------------------Arshavin--------------

----------------------RvP---------------

That is what I would like to see as well because it makes no sense to play a 4-3-3 the way we do. We may a lose the extra man in the middle but I can't see the point of it of we can't dominate possession and always get cut through like butter. Our midfield trio has no discipline and it defeats the purpose of the formation. We had a discussion about Cesc at Barca some months back and Pep said he move around too and occupys others space too much. He causes confusion with his runs and needs to curb it. He learned that from Arsenal and that's what we're seeing with Rambo, Song and Arteta. Song and Rambo have no positional discipline and leave massive gaps. We might as well lose one of the trio and have more defined roles for the pair. I swear neither Ramsey or Yossi knew what their roles were against Swansea.

Anyway, I think we could get more out of Arshavin playing behind RVP. If that fails, we could at least play RVP behind an off the shoulder striker like Walcott or Park. We have plenty of untried options here. Even Chamakh could be useful the lumbering oaf. Around the box he's okay with the hold up play and a strike playing off the shoulder of defenders could work well. There are more options that haven't been tried. We're not making use of the players we have.

Arshavin is a lazy bastard or just unfit. He goes for one touch risky passes, has a bit of pace and is intelligent around the box. He has the dribbling skills to turn a man and get that extra space, but forget Messi/Ronlado type dribbling from him on the flanks. So why is Wenger playing this sort of player on the wings? He hasn't got the work rate for it and it's like Fergie playing Berbatov on the flanks. It's just a bad decision. Pace is the only thing he has going for him out wide but if you can't beat your man and if he's dead on his feet after a few burst of pace, what's the point?

It's the similar for Theo. Why play a guy out there when he's no good with the ball to his feet? He can't dribble, cross or pass. Senseless decision. Play him on the shoulder of a striker so he can worry defences. Let him focus on off the ball movement and exploiting space like Owen used to. He's no winger.

RVP is on hot form right now and if we played him in the Bergkamp role, I think he'd still get goals and probably help set up a ton as well. He's a great at creating as well as scoring and right now, we have him focussing on one thing when he could possibly be doing more to help his buddies. I wouldn't say it's vital for him to play behind a quick striker, but it is an option.

Let Areta and Song play deep central midfield roles Gervinho and Ox on the flanks and we have a more balanced side that goes back to the way we used to play. Tough tackling bastards in the middle, speed and skill on the flanks, and our main playmaker in the final third on the edge of the box. Come Wenger. For old times sakes damn it.

[Power n Glory]

I would like to see us practise and master our passing, crossing and shooting. I'd like our players to decide on one style of football, either simple and efficient or overly complicated and based on percentages (I'd prefer the former myself). I'd like to see our players maybe leaving Twitter aside for a while and instead studying the game afterwards to see where they went wrong and how they can improve. Then I'd like them to remember what they have seen and work hard to ensure they don't make the same mistakes again. I'd like them to stop appearing in the newspapers talking about how Henry will revitalise the team, or how we're on the verge of becoming a super team and instead watch them do all their talking on the pitch. I'd like them to earn the huge amount the are handed each week by giving these things back to the fans who have to dig deep in a time of recession to pay to watch the team. I'd like to hear the fans stop telling Wenger how to run the team and instead try to figure out why he's running the team the way he is and then get behind him. If he fucks it up then I'm happy to hear the fans voice their concerns in the summer when these things can be more properly addressed. I'd like to see the fans listen to a legend like Thierry Henry and take his advice. I believe if the players did all this and the fans did all this the club would be in a much better place and surely that's what both the players and the fans want.

It's not possible for the playere to organise themselves and decide on their style of play. That sort of instruction comes from the manager. You've missed Wenger out in that post. He has to show some leadership. That sounds like some self sufficient system where a manager isn't needed. I don't think young and inexperienced players can simply correct their mistakes without being told and shown how.

[Flavs]

I would like to see us practise and master our passing, crossing and shooting. I'd like our players to decide on one style of football, either simple and efficient or overly complicated and based on percentages (I'd prefer the former myself). I'd like to see our players maybe leaving Twitter aside for a while and instead studying the game afterwards to see where they went wrong and how they can improve. Then I'd like them to remember what they have seen and work hard to ensure they don't make the same mistakes again. I'd like them to stop appearing in the newspapers talking about how Henry will revitalise the team, or how we're on the verge of becoming a super team and instead watch them do all their talking on the pitch. I'd like them to earn the huge amount the are handed each week by giving these things back to the fans who have to dig deep in a time of recession to pay to watch the team. I'd like to hear the fans stop telling Wenger how to run the team and instead try to figure out why he's running the team the way he is and then get behind him. If he fucks it up then I'm happy to hear the fans voice their concerns in the summer when these things can be more properly addressed. I'd like to see the fans listen to a legend like Thierry Henry and take his advice. I believe if the players did all this and the fans did all this the club would be in a much better place and surely that's what both the players and the fans want.

That's a post of pure genius tbh

[Syn]

MLK's got fuck all on NQ.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It's not possible for the playere to organise themselves and decide on their style of play. That sort of instruction comes from the manager. You've missed Wenger out in that post. He has to show some leadership. That sounds like some self sufficient system where a manager isn't needed. I don't think young and inexperienced players can simply correct their mistakes without being told and shown how.

when your on the pitch you don't need your manager to tell you how to shoot or pass a ball, its common sense.

[Power n Glory]

when your on the pitch you don't need your manager to tell you how to shoot or pass a ball, its common sense.

Then maybe Wenger shouldn't take such credit for the players he's developed, now should he?

[fakeyank]

That is what I would like to see as well because it makes no sense to play a 4-3-3 the way we do. We may a lose the extra man in the middle but I can't see the point of it of we can't dominate possession and always get cut through like butter. Our midfield trio has no discipline and it defeats the purpose of the formation. We had a discussion about Cesc at Barca some months back and Pep said he move around too and occupys others space too much. He causes confusion with his runs and needs to curb it. He learned that from Arsenal and that's what we're seeing with Rambo, Song and Arteta. Song and Rambo have no positional discipline and leave massive gaps. We might as well lose one of the trio and have more defined roles for the pair. I swear neither Ramsey or Yossi knew what their roles were against Swansea.

Anyway, I think we could get more out of Arshavin playing behind RVP. If that fails, we could at least play RVP behind an off the shoulder striker like Walcott or Park. We have plenty of untried options here. Even Chamakh could be useful the lumbering oaf. Around the box he's okay with the hold up play and a strike playing off the shoulder of defenders could work well. There are more options that haven't been tried. We're not making use of the players we have.

Arshavin is a lazy bastard or just unfit. He goes for one touch risky passes, has a bit of pace and is intelligent around the box. He has the dribbling skills to turn a man and get that extra space, but forget Messi/Ronlado type dribbling from him on the flanks. So why is Wenger playing this sort of player on the wings? He hasn't got the work rate for it and it's like Fergie playing Berbatov on the flanks. It's just a bad decision. Pace is the only thing he has going for him out wide but if you can't beat your man and if he's dead on his feet after a few burst of pace, what's the point?

It's the similar for Theo. Why play a guy out there when he's no good with the ball to his feet? He can't dribble, cross or pass. Senseless decision. Play him on the shoulder of a striker so he can worry defences. Let him focus on off the ball movement and exploiting space like Owen used to. He's no winger.

RVP is on hot form right now and if we played him in the Bergkamp role, I think he'd still get goals and probably help set up a ton as well. He's a great at creating as well as scoring and right now, we have him focussing on one thing when he could possibly be doing more to help his buddies. I wouldn't say it's vital for him to play behind a quick striker, but it is an option.

Let Areta and Song play deep central midfield roles Gervinho and Ox on the flanks and we have a more balanced side that goes back to the way we used to play. Tough tackling bastards in the middle, speed and skill on the flanks, and our main playmaker in the final third on the edge of the box. Come Wenger. For old times sakes damn it.

<_<

Arsene aint listening.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's not possible for the playere to organise themselves and decide on their style of play. That sort of instruction comes from the manager. You've missed Wenger out in that post. He has to show some leadership. That sounds like some self sufficient system where a manager isn't needed. I don't think young and inexperienced players can simply correct their mistakes without being told and shown how.

I'm not talking about formation or tactics. I'm talking about the basics of football, something a good few of our players seem to struggle with - some of them struggle year after year. They are very noisy off the pitch but are close to silent on it. I find the blame everything on Wenger idea, from the finances to Theo Walcott's inability to pass a ball, to be ludicrous. If we are really going to look at what's going on at Arsenal then let's do that instead of honing in on one aspect and trying to contort it into every possible shape to fit every possible scenario. 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1, we only have one striker! What difference does it make. The others couldn't reliably hit the ocean from the beach and I;d like to know why that is and why it doesn't seem to be improving. If Wenger sends the team out with instructions to pas to the opposition, make it as complicated as possible in the final third and lash the ball 30 yards over the goal at every opportunity then fine, sack him. Is that what he does?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I'm not talking about formation or tactics. I'm talking about the basics of football, something a good few of our players seem to struggle with - some of them struggle year after year. They are very noisy off the pitch but are close to silent on it. I find the blame everything on Wenger idea, from the finances to Theo Walcott's inability to pass a ball, to be ludicrous. If we are really going to look at what's going on at Arsenal then let's do that instead of honing in on one aspect and trying to contort it into every possible shape to fit every possible scenario. 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1, we only have one striker! What difference does it make. The others couldn't reliably hit the ocean from the beach and I;d like to know why that is and why it doesn't seem to be improving. If Wenger sends the team out with instructions to pas to the opposition, make it as complicated as possible in the final third and lash the ball 30 yards over the goal at every opportunity then fine, sack him. Is that what he does?

:gp:

[Letters]

Arsene aint listening.

tbh, he shouldn't be listening to internet twats who wouldn't have the foggiest clue what is involved in running a Premiershihp club. Some of his decisions are baffling but I'm not sure he should be looking here for advice.

[Marc Overmars]

At the end of the season, Arsene Wenger should bow out gracefully with his head held high.

Wenger. :bow:

:wave:

[Power n Glory]

I'm not talking about formation or tactics. I'm talking about the basics of football, something a good few of our players seem to struggle with - some of them struggle year after year. They are very noisy off the pitch but are close to silent on it. I find the blame everything on Wenger idea, from the finances to Theo Walcott's inability to pass a ball, to be ludicrous. If we are really going to look at what's going on at Arsenal then let's do that instead of honing in on one aspect and trying to contort it into every possible shape to fit every possible scenario. 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1, we only have one striker! What difference does it make. The others couldn't reliably hit the ocean from the beach and I;d like to know why that is and why it doesn't seem to be improving. If Wenger sends the team out with instructions to pas to the opposition, make it as complicated as possible in the final third and lash the ball 30 yards over the goal at every opportunity then fine, sack him. Is that what he does?

NQ if your interested in seeing why things aren't working on the pitch then your going to have to start looking at each players strengths and weaknesses. Practice can only go so far and the one thing we need to realise is that certain players aren't built to play in certain key positions. If you can't dribble, you have no business playing on the wings and it's a waste of time trying to build on that skill set when that particular player has spent his whole life training in another position. What your suggesting is oversimple.

When we play Stoke City, do you think the manager is going to try and out play us and get his players practicing intricate passes and dribbling techniques? No. The sign of a good manager is working with the tools he has and putting it to good use. Certain managers know they have a limited lump on the field that will neve be world class but they can at least make them effiecient and useful for the team. That's all I want Wenger to do but this obsession with getting turning everyone on the field into a complete player is overindulgent. It's so bad, our defenders have to have some sort of technique and passing skill because Wenger won't allow them to boot the ball clear.

It's a jack of all trades but master of none type of situation. I'm not saying they shoudln't practice, just saying of you look at the strengths and weaknesses of certain players, you start seeing why they suck in certain positions. When you start looking at things like that, then you get on to formations and stuff like that. Don't dismiss that sort of thing. It's why the English league and national team has lagged behind for so long. There is a lack of respect for it and seem to thing everything boils down to passion and energy. I don't think we have a lazy team our there. It's just energy being wasted.

[Power n Glory]

tbh, he shouldn't be listening to internet twats who wouldn't have the foggiest clue what is involved in running a Premiershihp club. Some of his decisions are baffling but I'm not sure he should be looking here for advice.

And you can piss off as well. All you do is WUM and then try to ban people. Contribute something worthwhile to the discussion or just go to bed.

[Master Splinter]

At the end of the season, Arsene Wenger should bow out gracefully with his head held high.

Wenger. :bow:

:wave:

Boring.

Considering he's become a WUM of Ach and Letters' standard in recent times, it would be awesome to see him bow out in spectacular disgrace. Go big or go home, as N_Q has often said.

Arsene WUMger :bow:.

[GP]

tbh, he shouldn't be listening to internet twats who wouldn't have the foggiest clue what is involved in running a Premiershihp club. Some of his decisions are baffling but I'm not sure he should be looking here for advice.

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

NQ if your interested in seeing why things aren't working on the pitch then your going to have to start looking at each players strengths and weaknesses. Practice can only go so far and the one thing we need to realise is that certain players aren't built to play in certain key positions. If you can't dribble, you have no business playing on the wings and it's a waste of time trying to build on that skill set when that particular player has spent his whole life training in another position. What your suggesting is oversimple.

When we play Stoke City, do you think the manager is going to try and out play us and get his players practicing intricate passes and dribbling techniques? No. The sign of a good manager is working with the tools he has and putting it to good use. Certain managers know they have a limited lump on the field that will neve be world class but they can at least make them effiecient and useful for the team. That's all I want Wenger to do but this obsession with getting turning everyone on the field into a complete player is overindulgent. It's so bad, our defenders have to have some sort of technique and passing skill because Wenger won't allow them to boot the ball clear.

It's a jack of all trades but master of none type of situation. I'm not saying they shoudln't practice, just saying of you look at the strengths and weaknesses of certain players, you start seeing why they suck in certain positions. When you start looking at things like that, then you get on to formations and stuff like that. Don't dismiss that sort of thing. It's why the English league and national team has lagged behind for so long. There is a lack of respect for it and seem to thing everything boils down to passion and energy. I don't think we have a lazy team our there. It's just energy being wasted.

I'm not saying the game ends with the players being able to kick a ball. But I think they ought to be able to do that before getting into the more complicated stuff. It's unreal how poor we are in the final third this season.

You give Theo the ball in acres of space on the flank and he doesn't need to dribble or beat anyone. But when he has time and space he still can't deliver. You talk about trying him in the central role, but on the few occasions he's played there, mostly for England, he's looked hopelessly out of his depth and his movement is predictable and unintelligent. Yes I know he scored that hat-trick. Maybe it would have been better for him if he never had. Players like RvP, Aguero and still Henry by the look of it have the smarts to find the space, to offer themselves to the midfielder or wide man trying to feed the ball through. You watch Chamakh and Walcott in the box. If there's a wrong place and a wrong time they'll find it.

As for Arshavin, if he can't be bothered doing the leg work on the flank then why is he going to run twice as hard behind the main striker? We could try it I suppose. How many games of him doing nothing would it take to call it a bust? Nobody is judging these guys on a few performances. It's over seasons now, they just haven't been performing at a level that's going to move the team beyond the ordinary we've seen over and over. They are random, inconsistent, unconvincing, they quit, they become anonymous in games. Now and again they pull something out of the bag that reminds us there's talent there but that just makes it all the more frustrating. Saying they are playing out of position doesn't explain their lack of character on the pitch. Unless you think they are sulking, in which case they should get the fuck out anyway.

What I'd like is for the board and the manager to get together in the summer and bring some proper talent in to help the handful of decent players we have. And I'd like to see plenty of players shipped out in that process. But I honestly don't think that's going to happen (apart from players being shipped out, the decent ones anyway). Transfer profits have been squirrelled away for how many years now? Time to put something back in because our quality has dropped well below the danger level.

I'm not against mixing things up a bit in the meantime but with players like Walcott, Chamakh, Arshavin and increasingly Gervinho (although it's his first season so maybe judgement is reserved) I just don't see it making much difference. And we also have players like Wilshere who was run into the ground, now the same thing is happening to Ramsey. We're short of decent players. We all know it and somebody needs to do something about it.

It'll be crazy if we don't get a striker in this window to help RvP out. Even a journeyman, anyone who knows how to do the basics, has a bit of experience and could nick a few goals. Then ship Theo and Arshavin out in the summer and get decent replacements. I know both of these guys provide assists, but they also fuck it up at a rate of 5-1 and that's why we've been throwing the points away again this season. Not because Theo is playing out of position, but because he's just not that great a player.

The real problems may still be ahead. Statistically RvP is unlikely to go the full season uninjured. What the fuck are we going to do if we lose him? Then we'll have to call on Theo or Arshavin or Chamakh or Park. The fact I have more faith in Park (which is close to none at all), a guy that hasn't played so far says it all really.

[Cripps_orig]

At the end of the season, Arsene Wenger should bow out gracefully with his head held high.

Wenger. :bow:

:wave:Nah too late for that. Should have gone in 2004 as a champion and his place in our history would have been unflawed. Now when people think of Wenger in 50 years, it'll be like "isnt he the guy who took a team to the title undefeated and then got them relegated within 10 years? What a dumbass"

Should have got in another unknown manager in 2004 by the name of Jose Mourinho and we'd be sitting here having won the CL at least once

[Xhaka Can’t]

Nah too late for that. Should have gone in 2004 as a champion and his place in our history would have been unflawed. Now when mongs think of Wenger in 50 years, it'll be like "isnt he the guy who took a team to the title undefeated and then got them relegated within 10 years? What a dumbass"



Spot on.

[Letters]

All you do is WUM and then try to ban people.

If I wanted to bad people I would :shrug:
I have IIP you see.

What I said was perfectly legitimate, Wenger's making some baffling decisions but internet forums isn't where he should be looking for 'advice'.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nah too late for that. Should have gone in 2004 as a champion and his place in our history would have been unflawed. Now when people think of Wenger in 50 years, it'll be like "isnt he the guy who took a team to the title undefeated and then got them relegated within 10 years? What a dumbass"

Should have got in another unknown manager in 2004 by the name of Jose Mourinho and we'd be sitting here having won the CL at least once

Would have been far more interesting to see the board fuck off in 2004 and decent owners come in.

[Letters]

Spot on.

You had one too many birthday drinkies? :lol:

[Syn]

What I said was perfectly legitimate, Wenger's making some baffling decisions but internet forums isn't where he should be looking for 'advice'.

Grass is green.

[Cripps_orig]

You had one too many birthday drinkies? :lol:Read his post carefully

[Xhaka Can’t]

Read his post carefully

I'm surprised he can read at all.

[Letters]

Read his post carefully

Oh yeah. :lol:

[Letters]

Grass is green.

You say that but a few people on here seem to genuinely think they know better than Wenger how the club should be run.

lolz, frankly.

[Syn]

You say that but a few people on here seem to genuinely think they know better than Wenger how the club should be run.

lolz, frankly.

Well it's a fucking internet forum, Letters. Unless you expect people to put 'IMO' after every post, they're just posting what they think the manager should do. And quite frankly, I reckon I could do a better job than Wenger in a few respects. Not in most aspects, but a few certainly. And that's why people are criticising the way the club is run and the manager's non-existent tactics. I certainly wouldn't wait until 70 mins before making a substitution every game and I certainly wouldn't make the same pointless and predictable 'Arshavin on, Ramsey off' substitution every game, for example.

[Power n Glory]

I'm not saying the game ends with the players being able to kick a ball. But I think they ought to be able to do that before getting into the more complicated stuff. It's unreal how poor we are in the final third this season.

You give Theo the ball in acres of space on the flank and he doesn't need to dribble or beat anyone. But when he has time and space he still can't deliver. You talk about trying him in the central role, but on the few occasions he's played there, mostly for England, he's looked hopelessly out of his depth and his movement is predictable and unintelligent. Yes I know he scored that hat-trick. Maybe it would have been better for him if he never had. Players like RvP, Aguero and still Henry by the look of it have the smarts to find the space, to offer themselves to the midfielder or wide man trying to feed the ball through. You watch Chamakh and Walcott in the box. If there's a wrong place and a wrong time they'll find it.

As for Arshavin, if he can't be bothered doing the leg work on the flank then why is he going to run twice as hard behind the main striker? We could try it I suppose. How many games of him doing nothing would it take to call it a bust? Nobody is judging these guys on a few performances. It's over seasons now, they just haven't been performing at a level that's going to move the team beyond the ordinary we've seen over and over. They are random, inconsistent, unconvincing, they quit, they become anonymous in games. Now and again they pull something out of the bag that reminds us there's talent there but that just makes it all the more frustrating. Saying they are playing out of position doesn't explain their lack of character on the pitch. Unless you think they are sulking, in which case they should get the fuck out anyway.

What I'd like is for the board and the manager to get together in the summer and bring some proper talent in to help the handful of decent players we have. And I'd like to see plenty of players shipped out in that process. But I honestly don't think that's going to happen (apart from players being shipped out, the decent ones anyway). Transfer profits have been squirrelled away for how many years now? Time to put something back in because our quality has dropped well below the danger level.

I'm not against mixing things up a bit in the meantime but with players like Walcott, Chamakh, Arshavin and increasingly Gervinho (although it's his first season so maybe judgement is reserved) I just don't see it making much difference. And we also have players like Wilshere who was run into the ground, now the same thing is happening to Ramsey. We're short of decent players. We all know it and somebody needs to do something about it.

It'll be crazy if we don't get a striker in this window to help RvP out. Even a journeyman, anyone who knows how to do the basics, has a bit of experience and could nick a few goals. Then ship Theo and Arshavin out in the summer and get decent replacements. I know both of these guys provide assists, but they also fuck it up at a rate of 5-1 and that's why we've been throwing the points away again this season. Not because Theo is playing out of position, but because he's just not that great a player.

The real problems may still be ahead. Statistically RvP is unlikely to go the full season uninjured. What the fuck are we going to do if we lose him? Then we'll have to call on Theo or Arshavin or Chamakh or Park. The fact I have more faith in Park (which is close to none at all), a guy that hasn't played so far says it all really.

Theo and Arshavin play important roles but it's not why we're losing games. Poor defending and losing control of the middle of the park has cost us dearly. The centre and defence are real problem areas. See, Arshavin and Theo can have performances like that did against Swansea for the majority of the game, but the one moment they get right that leads to goals should be enough to get us all three points if we can defend the lead.

In the final third we are poor because we have Gervinho, Walcott or Ramsey always finding themselves in the position to deliver but they fail because they don't have the skill for it. Play someone in that position that can can deliver and he'll make the right choice and excute the right sort of pass. There is a reason why Song bombs forward so often. When he gets into that position he can delivery. Not all the time but at a more consistent rate than the other bozos I mentioned. BUT, he's a defensive midfielder and how often can be get into those positions?

It's the same for Walcott and Arshavin. How many times will we see situations where Walcott gets a ball player into space and he's playing off the shoulder of a defender. How many times do we get to see Arshavin drift into a more central position to play in a nice through ball? Playing from the left means he needs to drift in and that means leaving the left back exposed and Miquel was exposed badly the other day. If we're bad in the final third then we should be looking to get our better passers into position where they can be more influential. Arshavin would be more effective in the centre and wing play is more demanding than a central role behind the striker. Well, stamina wise.

Wenger has played these guys in the same position for years and it hasn't worked. He should try something else or bench them and that's his call to make. That's why a lay a lot of the blame on him. We're not coaches over here but we watch enough of our team and know enough to see that where they are playing isn't working. He didn't have to start them either. Ox or Henry could have played and that's why I'm going to lay a lot of the blame on him. It's been 7 years now. He picks the teams and plays them there. He chose to buy Gervinho. You mentioned Sessegnon you the other day and I've been a fan of his since seeing him play in the Emirates cup. Wenger must have known about that guy but he chose to stick with what we have. That guy wouldn't have cost millions in transfer fee or wages.

I just can't excuse Wenger for these sort of decisions. We've been through many different players and this is like his 5th team since the invincibles. It's the same trademark in every team. We lost against newly promoted Hull on one season and I can't remember which team it was but I remember Toure getting done over by some newly promoted team as well. That was 5 or 6 years ago and the team has had a face lift and Botox since then. But it's the same shit. Same problems and you have to start looking at the constants.

We've had these problems before Theo and Arshavin arrived and if I remember correctly it's been around this sort of time we've been struggling in the league and had to buy both players just to help us qualify for a Champs League spot. It's Wenger.

[Power n Glory]

You say that but a few people on here seem to genuinely think they know better than Wenger how the club should be run.

lolz, frankly.

Piss off and stop being a WUM. You're one of the worst culprits and always manage to drag a conversation down with shitty remarks and digs at posters. The whole concept of a forum always seems to allude and you're always trying stifle conversation on here. If it's not your cup of tea, then don't get involved. You can cringe from the sidelines and stay quiet.

[Syn]

I semi-concur. Letters' WUM rate in AFC debate is approaching prolific. Not quite at my level but it's getting there. Pre-wedding jitters are getting to him. He should do the honourable thing and step down. GW is generally quite well behaved these days and there's not much need for so many mods. And Letters' comments are the ones that need to be moderated. He's taken us as far as he can tbh. In sharp decline and it's time for a change at the top.

[fakeyank]

tbh, he shouldn't be listening to internet twats who wouldn't have the foggiest clue what is involved in running a Premiershihp club. Some of his decisions are baffling but I'm not sure he should be looking here for advice.

Well its better than looking into his brain. Thats clearly not working at all! Might as well try the MB's.. cant be worse than the shit he has in his head!

[Boss]

Letters :rose:

[Marc Overmars]

We are gathered here today to mourn the passing of our dear friend Letters. :rose:

[Flavs]

And you can piss off as well. All you do is WUM and then try to ban people. Contribute something worthwhile to the discussion or just go to bed.

:lol:

[Letters]

I took option b and went to bed.

Oh the ironing of people complaining about my posting doing nothing but being personal and abusive. That's good, constructive posting is it? Roffle.

[Flavs]

I took option b and went to bed.

Oh the ironing of people complaining about my posting doing nothing but being personal and abusive. That's good, constructive posting is it? Roffle.

Shut it fatty

[Letters]

It's cake retention :sulk:

<_<

[Kano]

Theo and Arshavin play important roles but it's not why we're losing games. Poor defending and losing control of the middle of the park has cost us dearly. The centre and defence are real problem areas.
the fb situation is killing us. we have players being dragged out of their positions from the centre of defence and central midfield trying to help out and leaving massive gaps everywhere. i thought miguel was awful on sunday (of course he's not a left back i know) but the space behind him and dj was shocking. and the opposition know it, the 3rd goal game down his side and both against fulham. so we had kos and the bfg covering areas they shouldn't be, song trying to do everything and ramsey? well. he had an absolute shocker, he's worst of the season and he's been deteriorating game on game.

[Niall_Quinn]

Theo and Arshavin play important roles but it's not why we're losing games. Poor defending and losing control of the middle of the park has cost us dearly. The centre and defence are real problem areas. See, Arshavin and Theo can have performances like that did against Swansea for the majority of the game, but the one moment they get right that leads to goals should be enough to get us all three points if we can defend the lead.

In the final third we are poor because we have Gervinho, Walcott or Ramsey always finding themselves in the position to deliver but they fail because they don't have the skill for it. Play someone in that position that can can deliver and he'll make the right choice and excute the right sort of pass. There is a reason why Song bombs forward so often. When he gets into that position he can delivery. Not all the time but at a more consistent rate than the other bozos I mentioned. BUT, he's a defensive midfielder and how often can be get into those positions?

It's the same for Walcott and Arshavin. How many times will we see situations where Walcott gets a ball player into space and he's playing off the shoulder of a defender. How many times do we get to see Arshavin drift into a more central position to play in a nice through ball? Playing from the left means he needs to drift in and that means leaving the left back exposed and Miquel was exposed badly the other day. If we're bad in the final third then we should be looking to get our better passers into position where they can be more influential. Arshavin would be more effective in the centre and wing play is more demanding than a central role behind the striker. Well, stamina wise.

Wenger has played these guys in the same position for years and it hasn't worked. He should try something else or bench them and that's his call to make. That's why a lay a lot of the blame on him. We're not coaches over here but we watch enough of our team and know enough to see that where they are playing isn't working. He didn't have to start them either. Ox or Henry could have played and that's why I'm going to lay a lot of the blame on him. It's been 7 years now. He picks the teams and plays them there. He chose to buy Gervinho. You mentioned Sessegnon you the other day and I've been a fan of his since seeing him play in the Emirates cup. Wenger must have known about that guy but he chose to stick with what we have. That guy wouldn't have cost millions in transfer fee or wages.

I just can't excuse Wenger for these sort of decisions. We've been through many different players and this is like his 5th team since the invincibles. It's the same trademark in every team. We lost against newly promoted Hull on one season and I can't remember which team it was but I remember Toure getting done over by some newly promoted team as well. That was 5 or 6 years ago and the team has had a face lift and Botox since then. But it's the same shit. Same problems and you have to start looking at the constants.

We've had these problems before Theo and Arshavin arrived and if I remember correctly it's been around this sort of time we've been struggling in the league and had to buy both players just to help us qualify for a Champs League spot. It's Wenger.

When was the last time an Arsenal team was equipped to defend a lead? We haven't been doing that since the days of Adams and Co, and even then we often had to score a few to ensure the win. Defending leads is important, no doubt. Scoring goals is even more important though. You're giving Arshavin and Theo a free ride here, claiming it's okay for them to play a few minutes out of the 90 and disappear for the rest because provided they get a goal between them or set one up it should then fall to the defence to hold the lead. Well yes, that's the defence's job but wouldn't it make it easier for them if Theo and Arshavin could play for 90 minutes and maybe make or score a couple of goals?

Arshavin is supposed to be one of the world's talents. Theo a bright up and coming England star (how many years now?) Suppose the formation is wrong, suppose the tactics stink. None of that explains the inefficiencies of these two players when they eventually make it into advantageous positions in the opposition's third. It's their poor decision making, their lack of care and consistency that costs us. Not just them, others are guilty too. But they repeatedly stand out.

The defence is decimated by injuries. Whether this is a legitimate excuse or not is debatable. Should we really have three lefts backs and three right backs in the squad? Can we afford that in terms of a limited number of places on the roster? We could argue about it all day long, but what's Theo's and Arshavin's excuse? They are first team players, they aren't injured, they get repeated chances to perform. Where are they?

We can crucify Ramsey, moan about Arteta, say they can't control the middle like we used to. But they do actually perform their job at least some of the time, they do win the possession, they do distribute the ball. Who are they giving it to though? For me that's the big problem.

It's pretty damn sad when a totally inexperienced kid from the lower leagues can come in and be more effective than Walcott on the wing. Move Theo into the centre and here's what you get:

Theo :doh:

As usual.

Where we are at the moment is either relying on van Persie to score twice in every game or for the defence to keep a clean sheet every match. That's because other players aren't contributing or they are contributing way too little. I'm fine with changing the formation and the tactics. No problem with that and I even agree Wenger is one dimensional. But that's the nature of the team we have. We are supposed to be relying on talent and intelligence on the pitch. Our whole game used to be keep the ball, move it, wear the opponent down and out. Score more goals than them. We have a team that's (supposedly) geared towards that style of play. But the quality has dropped alarmingly through lack of investment and theft of the resources by the board. If Wenger was wrong to hold on to the money the cunts on the board were sure as hell wrong to stick it all in their pockets and do a runner. If you want to play various formations and variable tactics then perhaps we need a new manager, but we need a new team too don't forget.

[LDG]

When was the last time an Arsenal team was equipped to defend a lead? We haven't been doing that since the days of Adams and Co, and even then we often had to score a few to ensure the win. Defending leads is important, no doubt. Scoring goals is even more important though. You're giving Arshavin and Theo a free ride here, claiming it's okay for them to play a few minutes out of the 90 and disappear for the rest because provided they get a goal between them or set one up it should then fall to the defence to hold the lead. Well yes, that's the defence's job but wouldn't it make it easier for them if Theo and Arshavin could play for 90 minutes and maybe make or score a couple of goals?

Arshavin is supposed to be one of the world's talents. Theo a bright up and coming England star (how many years now?) Suppose the formation is wrong, suppose the tactics stink. None of that explains the inefficiencies of these two players when they eventually make it into advantageous positions in the opposition's third. It's their poor decision making, their lack of care and consistency that costs us. Not just them, others are guilty too. But they repeatedly stand out.

The defence is decimated by injuries. Whether this is a legitimate excuse or not is debatable. Should we really have three lefts backs and three right backs in the squad? Can we afford that in terms of a limited number of places on the roster? We could argue about it all day long, but what's Theo's and Arshavin's excuse? They are first team players, they aren't injured, they get repeated chances to perform. Where are they?

We can crucify Ramsey, moan about Arteta, say they can't control the middle like we used to. But they do actually perform their job at least some of the time, they do win the possession, they do distribute the ball. Who are they giving it to though? For me that's the big problem.

It's pretty damn sad when a totally inexperienced kid from the lower leagues can come in and be more effective than Walcott on the wing. Move Theo into the centre and here's what you get:

Theo :doh:

As usual.

Where we are at the moment is either relying on van Persie to score twice in every game or for the defence to keep a clean sheet every match. That's because other players aren't contributing or they are contributing way too little. I'm fine with changing the formation and the tactics. No problem with that and I even agree Wenger is one dimensional. But that's the nature of the team we have. We are supposed to be relying on talent and intelligence on the pitch. Our whole game used to be keep the ball, move it, wear the opponent down and out. Score more goals than them. We have a team that's (supposedly) geared towards that style of play. But the quality has dropped alarmingly through lack of investment and theft of the resources by the board. If Wenger was wrong to hold on to the money the cunts on the board were sure as hell wrong to stick it all in their pockets and do a runner. If you want to play various formations and variable tactics then perhaps we need a new manager, but we need a new team too don't forget.

Awesome post.

[Kano]

The defence is decimated by injuries. Whether this is a legitimate excuse or not is debatable. Should we really have three lefts backs and three right backs in the squad? Can we afford that in terms of a limited number of places on the roster?
i don't think there is much of a debate to be had really, we can't overload the squad with 6 full backs leaving only 19 other spots for the rest, that would be insane.

we can bemoan our injury problems over the years but to lose all of your full backs is completely unheard of. in the mean time that means our team is being pulled all over the place, all organisation is lost trying to compensate for our significant weaknesses at the back, which of course has a double fold effect on our attack capabilities.

[LDG]

i don't think there is much of a debate to be had really, we can't overload the squad with 6 full backs leaving only 19 other spots for the rest, that would be insane.

we can bemoan our injury problems over the years but to lose all of your full backs is completely unheard of. in the mean time that means our team is being pulled all over the place, all organisation is lost trying to compensate for our significant weaknesses at the back, which of course has a double fold effect on our attack capabilities.

Exactly. So I reckon we should be signing that player or players, who are gonna convert the chances we create in order to just try and outscore the opposition while our defenders await the return of our fullbacks.

[Letters]

I don't think we need to be signing fullbacks. On loan, maybe, but for all our injury issues (which can't solely be down to bad luck, it's happening too often now) the number of injuries to fullbacks this year is ridiculous and not something anyone at Arsenal could have predicted or accounted for.
A for example is the City game in the CC where Santos was just about the only first choice player out there and guess who got the serious injury :doh:
You can't do anything about that.
IMO the bigger issue this season has been putting the ball in the net. Syn wrote a post a while back in which he listed all the attacking talent we have and I agree in theory we've got enough players who should be able to but for whatever reason only one of them is. That needs addressing urgently.

[Syn]

As a fellow internet twat, I'd just like to say that if Wenger doesn't play Wilshere in Gervinho's position (wide on the left...or right, I suppose) then he has WUM of the Year sewn up for 2012. You can pretty much point the finger at any position and say they should be doing better. As a team we are very tired and demoralised. I would also say that Theo, Arshavin and Gervinho are the biggest let-downs at the moment. If you look at players like Bale or those Dyer/Sinclair guys at Swansea...why the fuck can't we have some poncy dickhead taking on a couple of players and doing something useful? We need Wilshere out wide to be that poncy dickhead. Or failing that, play him as a second striker and turn him into Rooney.

I still think Ramsey and Walcott will make it for some reason. Surprisingly, I'm less confident about Ramsey because I think he might just have been Eduardo'd/Diaby'd out of a promising career. A year out of his development has fucked him in the arse and he hasn't returned as light on his feet as he was at 17. Walcott has had 6 years of PL experience and should be doing a lot better but somehow I still think he'll become a prolific goalscorer. Just needs a new manager. And he'll probably get one after a couple of years (and no, he won't move clubs).

Believe.

[Marc Overmars]

Theo can finish, the problem with him is that he's limited, getting himself into scoring positions is the hardest part because not every defence will allow him the space to score the type of goal he scored on the weekend.

We just need to man up and buy a proper striker. None of this second striker/winger bullshit, a real striker who has a track record of goals. Even that guy Newcastle signed has a 1 in 2 Bundesliga record, something like that for us is ideal.

[Niall_Quinn]

Pretty tough on Ramsey having to come back from that injury and immediately assume the role of leader in the midfield, playing every game until he's worn out. As for Theo, he's possibly the most frustrating player I've seen. The talent is there but I'm not sure his brain can unlock or control it. It's like a brain fart when he does something useful, the exception rather than the rule. I'd say it was a confidence thing but why? The crowd has been unbelievably patient with him, willing him on to deliver on his potential. With Cesc gone, Nasri gone, this should be his moment to step up. Capello had the same problems with him so I'm not convinced he'll thrive under a different manager, especially if he decides to slag that manager in a book at the first sign of incoming criticism. He's fucking up his career as far as I can see.

Djourou is in the papers today talking about getting revenge on Utd. We do it to ourselves.

[Kano]

i have no doubt at all that ramsey will become a great player, he gets into fantastic positions, can pick a pass and runs his socks off. unfortunately, it's his first season proper in a team trying to reform themselves and with no one else to take his place atm.

[Syn]

As for Theo, he's possibly the most frustrating player I've seen. The talent is there but I'm not sure his brain can unlock or control it. It's like a brain fart when he does something useful, the exception rather than the rule. I'd say it was a confidence thing but why? The crowd has been unbelievably patient with him, willing him on to deliver on his potential. With Cesc gone, Nasri gone, this should be his moment to step up. Capello had the same problems with him so I'm not convinced he'll thrive under a different manager, especially if he decides to slag that manager in a book at the first sign of incoming criticism. He's fucking up his career as far as I can see.

It's bad management. Theo knows he's guaranteed to start every game. He knows he's one of the senior people in the team (experience wise). And he is allowed to make the same mistakes over and over again. As far as I see, Theo makes 2 big mistakes: 1) He isn't composed when finishing...he hesitates too much and almost apologises for having the ball in such positions and exploiting his pace. 2) He runs into defenders because he doesn't go full-pelt...he is trying to out-smart them instead shamelessly putting them on the backfoot by scaring them. I've seen him do it right a couple of times - notably the 2-2 draw against Barcelona a couple of years ago. He basically needs to realise he only has 2 things: pace and the ability to finish. And that's all you need. You don't need to be Messi and do little flicks and turns and shit. Just kick the ball towards the corner flag, chase it down and smash the ball across the 6 yard box....and when through on goal, don't hesitate - even if you think you're picking the wrong option (e.g. going for a lob) go through with it.

Every time Theo wastes the ball by hesitating and basically being a fanny, Wenger should sub him off at HT and put Oxlade on. But Wenger keeps tolerating it and Theo has been allowed to grow into this annoying muppet.

[LDG]

Theo has rushes of blood to the head, where he doesn't have time to think, and just does it naturally.

It's when he has to think about it he's fucked, because it means he has to decide for himself. He's best when he's firing from the hip, like Chelsea....he didn't have time to think, he just ploughed through everyone and whacked it one. He's deadly accurate when he's like that. It also happens when he get's the red mist. If he get's angry, he'll just get the rage on and smash a shot goalwards out of nowhere, and it's usually very close to netting.

Best thing for him would be for everyone to slap him about in the dressing room and tell him he's shit. Wind him up and let him go.

[Marc Overmars]

Even Capello got fed up of him and left him out of the World Cup squad, for the same reasons we're discussing now.

It's too late to change him, he's a pub team player who happens to be very fast, so we need to play to his strengths if we're ever going to see the best of him.

[Niall_Quinn]

Theo has rushes of blood to the head, where he doesn't have time to think, and just does it naturally.

It's when he has to think about it he's fucked, because it means he has to decide for himself. He's best when he's firing from the hip, like Chelsea....he didn't have time to think, he just ploughed through everyone and whacked it one. He's deadly accurate when he's like that. It also happens when he get's the red mist. If he get's angry, he'll just get the rage on and smash a shot goalwards out of nowhere, and it's usually very close to netting.

Best thing for him would be for everyone to slap him about in the dressing room and tell him he's shit. Wind him up and let him go.

Think he'd cry and call his publisher.

[Fats]

Theo can finish no doubt, but he lacks desire and focus.

He IMO is not good enough to be Arsenals centre forward. He lacks intelligent movement and cannot hold onto the ball under pressure.

The biggest problem with him and so many of our players, he does not take any responsibility for his actions and hides behind his team.

[Cripps_orig]

Theo isnt a major problem.

Its the lack of creativity in the middle that is. Last season, he was feeding off Nasri and Cesc and scored 15 goals i think which was excellent and everyone on here was probably sucking his cock and rightly so. I wasnt on here last season due to my sabbatical but ive been on GW long enough to know that it only takes a couple of good games for a player to be cock suck worthy. Kos is a prime example this season. Anyway back to Theo, he scored goals and got assists last season. This season, much like the rest of the team, hes not been at his best and having the Welsh Denilson and the Spanish Denilson in midfield doesnt help. Our most creative CM is Song who is defensive minded and he only really passes to RVP tbh which is fine cos RVP comes up with the goods.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Theo has rushes of blood to the head, where he doesn't have time to think, and just does it naturally.

It's when he has to think about it he's fucked, because it means he has to decide for himself. He's best when he's firing from the hip, like Chelsea....he didn't have time to think, he just ploughed through everyone and whacked it one. He's deadly accurate when he's like that. It also happens when he get's the red mist. If he get's angry, he'll just get the rage on and smash a shot goalwards out of nowhere, and it's usually very close to netting.

Best thing for him would be for everyone to slap him about in the dressing room and tell him he's shit. Wind him up and let him go.Look at Henry's reaction when he scored against Leeds.

If Theo had some of that, he might actually be close the the sort of player everyone hoped he would be.

But he hasn't, he isn't, and I don't think he will ever be.
The slapping thing is worth a try though.

[Power n Glory]

When was the last time an Arsenal team was equipped to defend a lead? We haven't been doing that since the days of Adams and Co, and even then we often had to score a few to ensure the win. Defending leads is important, no doubt. Scoring goals is even more important though. You're giving Arshavin and Theo a free ride here, claiming it's okay for them to play a few minutes out of the 90 and disappear for the rest because provided they get a goal between them or set one up it should then fall to the defence to hold the lead. Well yes, that's the defence's job but wouldn't it make it easier for them if Theo and Arshavin could play for 90 minutes and maybe make or score a couple of goals?

Arshavin is supposed to be one of the world's talents. Theo a bright up and coming England star (how many years now?) Suppose the formation is wrong, suppose the tactics stink. None of that explains the inefficiencies of these two players when they eventually make it into advantageous positions in the opposition's third. It's their poor decision making, their lack of care and consistency that costs us. Not just them, others are guilty too. But they repeatedly stand out.

The defence is decimated by injuries. Whether this is a legitimate excuse or not is debatable. Should we really have three lefts backs and three right backs in the squad? Can we afford that in terms of a limited number of places on the roster? We could argue about it all day long, but what's Theo's and Arshavin's excuse? They are first team players, they aren't injured, they get repeated chances to perform. Where are they?

We can crucify Ramsey, moan about Arteta, say they can't control the middle like we used to. But they do actually perform their job at least some of the time, they do win the possession, they do distribute the ball. Who are they giving it to though? For me that's the big problem.

It's pretty damn sad when a totally inexperienced kid from the lower leagues can come in and be more effective than Walcott on the wing. Move Theo into the centre and here's what you get:

Theo :doh:

As usual.

Where we are at the moment is either relying on van Persie to score twice in every game or for the defence to keep a clean sheet every match. That's because other players aren't contributing or they are contributing way too little. I'm fine with changing the formation and the tactics. No problem with that and I even agree Wenger is one dimensional. But that's the nature of the team we have. We are supposed to be relying on talent and intelligence on the pitch. Our whole game used to be keep the ball, move it, wear the opponent down and out. Score more goals than them. We have a team that's (supposedly) geared towards that style of play. But the quality has dropped alarmingly through lack of investment and theft of the resources by the board. If Wenger was wrong to hold on to the money the cunts on the board were sure as hell wrong to stick it all in their pockets and do a runner. If you want to play various formations and variable tactics then perhaps we need a new manager, but we need a new team too don't forget.

If you look at the losses against Fulham and Swansea, you'd see that we gave away the ball constantly in the middle of the park and couldn't win it back. That is why we lost. For me, Arshavin and Theo like RVP are attacking players. They can be quiet for 40 minutes but have one second where they produce that one pass or shot that changes the game. That's what has been happening for a while now. We've struggled through games but been able to win because we haven't been dominated by the opposition. The two games where we've been outplayed recently have resulted in losses and us conceding goals. I'm not excusing them, just saying it's the sort of position where a lack of quality in the final third means we draw more games or win by a very small margin. If the midfield can't control the game, it reduces the amount of chances our attackers get to create chances and if we have guys on the field that need 4 or 5 opportunities to play in a great ball, then we're in trouble if they're only 2 or 3 chances a game. It's a knock on affect. Henry wasn't always a super clinical striker but you could trust us to always dominate possession and get those chances. It's the same for Adebayor. You can get away with it if you have a strong midfield always controlling the game. I'm not saying it's the way to go, just the way it is.

These guys have been here for a long time and it's bad management from Wenger to keep playing them if they can't produce. It also annoys me because we're talking about two players that are playing out of position. This isn't something new. Wenger played Eboue on the wings for a season until the guy was booed off the field. He played Diaby on the flanks and it took him ages to play the guy in the centre, his natural position. Why is he making the same sort of decisions? Gervinho had a rep for being sloppy in the final third but we went for him anyway. That's Wenger's call.

[Power n Glory]

It's bad management. Theo knows he's guaranteed to start every game. He knows he's one of the senior people in the team (experience wise). And he is allowed to make the same mistakes over and over again. As far as I see, Theo makes 2 big mistakes: 1) He isn't composed when finishing...he hesitates too much and almost apologises for having the ball in such positions and exploiting his pace. 2) He runs into defenders because he doesn't go full-pelt...he is trying to out-smart them instead shamelessly putting them on the backfoot by scaring them. I've seen him do it right a couple of times - notably the 2-2 draw against Barcelona a couple of years ago. He basically needs to realise he only has 2 things: pace and the ability to finish. And that's all you need. You don't need to be Messi and do little flicks and turns and shit. Just kick the ball towards the corner flag, chase it down and smash the ball across the 6 yard box....and when through on goal, don't hesitate - even if you think you're picking the wrong option (e.g. going for a lob) go through with it.

Every time Theo wastes the ball by hesitating and basically being a fanny, Wenger should sub him off at HT and put Oxlade on. But Wenger keeps tolerating it and Theo has been allowed to grow into this annoying muppet.

I think Walcott needs to learn how to dribble with his feet to be honest and then burst into space. But he can't do that because he's not a natural dribbler. I like Gervinho's style of dribble. Defenders have trouble getting the ball of him. Even Eboue had a better dribbling style compared to Theo. He'd keep the ball tight to feet and then start bursting forward with more aggressive strides. Theo goes for aggression and speed every time. He never tried to back the defender up and force the defender to commit and then react.Or he never tries to back them up to the point where they are confused about the direction he's heading in. His movement is telegraphed. On a counter attack, that pace and power style your talking about works, but a defender is composed and tracking his, he's usually in trouble. Plus, defenders always double up on Walcott. Even if he beats one man, he's running into somebody else. He's not cut out to play as a winger. But it's Wenger's call. Around the box, he'd be more dangerous because defenders won't want to give away penalties if he's knocking the ball into space.

[Niall_Quinn]

If you look at the losses against Fulham and Swansea, you'd see that we gave away the ball constantly in the middle of the park and couldn't win it back. That is why we lost. For me, Arshavin and Theo like RVP are attacking players. They can be quiet for 40 minutes but have one second where they produce that one pass or shot that changes the game. That's what has been happening for a while now. We've struggled through games but been able to win because we haven't been dominated by the opposition. The two games where we've been outplayed recently have resulted in losses and us conceding goals. I'm not excusing them, just saying it's the sort of position where a lack of quality in the final third means we draw more games or win by a very small margin. If the midfield can't control the game, it reduces the amount of chances our attackers get to create chances and if we have guys on the field that need 4 or 5 opportunities to play in a great ball, then we're in trouble if they're only 2 or 3 chances a game. It's a knock on affect. Henry wasn't always a super clinical striker but you could trust us to always dominate possession and get those chances. It's the same for Adebayor. You can get away with it if you have a strong midfield always controlling the game. I'm not saying it's the way to go, just the way it is.

These guys have been here for a long time and it's bad management from Wenger to keep playing them if they can't produce. It also annoys me because we're talking about two players that are playing out of position. This isn't something new. Wenger played Eboue on the wings for a season until the guy was booed off the field. He played Diaby on the flanks and it took him ages to play the guy in the centre, his natural position. Why is he making the same sort of decisions? Gervinho had a rep for being sloppy in the final third but we went for him anyway. That's Wenger's call.

Our last playmaker is injured, but he'll recover. Playing Yossi in there was a fuck up for sure, don't know what Wenger was thinking. But we do have players coming back to help out the defence and the middle. Should we be buying in new talent to cover for injuries? I think even if we field the full team minus the injuries our biggest issue is still up top. It's a striker we need, whether to grab us the goals when we're struggling with injuries and bad form or move us forwards when the key players have returned. Who do we play in the middle in the meantime? Even Coquelin is broken now.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think Walcott needs to learn how to dribble with his feet to be honest and then burst into space. But he can't do that because he's not a natural dribbler. I like Gervinho's style of dribble. Defenders have trouble getting the ball of him. Even Eboue had a better dribbling style compared to Theo. He'd keep the ball tight to feet and then start bursting forward with more aggressive strides. Theo goes for aggression and speed every time. He never tried to back the defender up and force the defender to commit and then react.Or he never tries to back them up to the point where they are confused about the direction he's heading in. His movement is telegraphed. On a counter attack, that pace and power style your talking about works, but a defender is composed and tracking his, he's usually in trouble. Plus, defenders always double up on Walcott. Even if he beats one man, he's running into somebody else. He's not cut out to play as a winger. But it's Wenger's call. Around the box, he'd be more dangerous because defenders won't want to give away penalties if he's knocking the ball into space.

Where are you drawing your evidence for Theo being better around the box? His positional play and decision making are awful. Isn't he going to struggle even more and be marked out of it even more of he plays in the middle?

[Boss]

Theo is proven he'll never have what it takes to be a top player. Pace but nothing else. Most half decent strikers can finish the easy 1v1s he has been so not sure why excuses are being made for him.

Was willing to give him a chance a while ago but he's had too many of them and hasn't got a single bit better since he started playing for us. You can point out to a lack of creativity but he is supposed to be one of the people supplying creativity and his end product is still fuck all compared to top players.

When was the last time anyone saw him dominate a game? Does it far too little to be a top player, we must flog him asap.

Rather given Oxlade-Chamberlain the rest of the season to get better than persist with garbage like Theo and Arshavin. Getting tired with Gervinho too but think he could still be a decent creative outlet even if he can't finish for shit.

[Power n Glory]

Where are you drawing your evidence for Theo being better around the box? His positional play and decision making are awful. Isn't he going to struggle even more and be marked out of it even more of he plays in the middle?

Because I watch him week in week out and see how he's able to make space for himself on the wings but ends up getting clattered and fouled. Or how he's able to drive down the right side of a defender, he has the space to pass because he's left the defender for dead but his final ball lets him down.

His off the ball movement is good. When on the shoulder of a defender players can't catch him. He picks up a lot of fouls and players usually have no qualms about smashing into him. They'd be afraid to do that on the edge of the box and would have serious problems stopping him if he's running right at them, as seen with the Chelsea goal he scored.

I could be wrong, I see little strikers like Hernandez, Defoe and Owen play that way. They don't play with the ball to their feet that much. It's just an observation.