If we don't finish 4th, do you want Wenger to leave at the end of the season?

[Joker]

I think he should have left at the end of last season tbh, but surely this has become an untenable situation now? The one good thing that may come out of us not finishing 4th is that the board will get worried about losing the Champions League revenue, and may finally think about sacking him.

I think Wenger's finished as a manager tbh. He's shorn of ideas, his tactics don't change, and his extreme stubbornness is costing us big time. He's become a totally bogstandard manager and we need to get rid and start building again.

[Özim]

Should have gone last summer, didn't if we don't get 4th once again he should go.....he won't of course as he's constantly asslicked by the board.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

even if we don't finish 4th do you want wenger to leave at the end of the season, should it not be even if we finish 4th.

Joker :doh:

[Marc Overmars]

There will be plenty of excuses rolled out for him if/when we miss out on 4th.

He's going nowhere.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

even if we don't finish 4th do you want wenger to leave at the end of the season, should it not be even if we finish 4th.

Joker :doh:

He is asking us if we don't finish fourth would you want Wenger gone. :blink:

I think it's probably time he went either way, really.

[Boss]

Should have left after he didn't strengthen and we flopped in 2008-09.

Should leave at the end of this season given our shocking summer and even worse January transfer dealings but won't until his contract ends.

Also the hate brigade against Joker by certain posters is getting quite tedious, give it a fucking rest children.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He is asking us if we don't finish fourth would you want Wenger gone. :blink:

I think it's probably time he went either way, really.

You serious or wumming like zimm

[Niall_Quinn]

No, just to spite the cocks who show up to gloat when we lose.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Should have gone last summer, didn't if we don't get 4th once again he should go.....he won't of course as he's constantly asslicked by the board.

nah i think it was fair to give him another season but i agree with the latter part of your post, and you know i have been suportive of the guy.

he should go if we don't get 4th no excuses. only problem is nothing will change with this board a new manager will be in the wenger mould thats the problem.

[topgun]

The heart breaking thing for me is that the club has enough money to put things right and its not being done,its absolutely criminal and its not going to change with Wenger in charge.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

You serious or wumming like zimm

I am known for my wumming. No, I am being serious - by Wenger's own admission getting fourth is compulsory and we're seeing exactly the same things we have seen for many seasons. It might not get any better with a new manager, it could even worse but at least we would have tried something new - we've been crying out for Wenger to do that but for whatever reason, he hasn't been.

[Arsenal Fan]

depends on the replacement...
if its a big player like pepe , but if its a rafa then fuck no

[Özim]

nah i think it was fair to give him another season but i agree with the latter part of your post, and you know i have been suportive of the guy.

he should go if we don't get 4th no excuses. only problem is nothing will change with this board a new manager will be in the wenger mould thats the problem.
He's had 6 years of failure, last summer he should have gone...you just can't keep making excuses and failing season after season.

Anyway he won't go because the fans won't kick up enough of a fuss and the board don't give a toss.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I am known for my wumming. No, I am being serious - by Wenger's own admission getting fourth is compulsory and we're seeing exactly the same things we have seen for many seasons. It might not get any better with a new manager, it could even worse but at least we would have tried something new - we've been crying out for Wenger to do that but for whatever reason, he hasn't been.

Not disagreeing with you at all.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He's had 6 years of failure, last summer he should have gone...you just can't keep making excuses and failing season after season.Anyway he won't go because the fans won't kick up enough of a fuss and the board don't give a toss.

Not disagreeing at all, but mist thought he deserved one last season to try and right his wrongs, of course he will say he missed a lot of 1st teamers today but truth be told we should have beat them end of.

if he fails to get 4th he should be gone no questions asked but like you say he won't baord are too gutless and greedy and want to line their pockets so it works for both.

[Niall_Quinn]

Jose to beat the filth to the Spanish title and the take on his most impossible challenge, killing the Arsenal board.

[Fats]

The guy simply has to leave.

Our club cannot sustain his ego. His methods are outdated and do not work at the highest level.

Tactically he is outwitted on numerous occasions and his team IMO do not fight for the club or him.

I feel his staying as manager is untenable and if he decides to stay next season, as fans we have to protest.

[Grebbo]

Has to go.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The guy simply has to leave.

Our club cannot sustain his ego. His methods are outdated and do not work at the highest level.

Tactically he is outwitted on numerous occasions and his team IMO do not fight for the club or him.

I feel his staying as manager is untenable and if he decides to stay next season, as fans we have to protest.

WHilst this board are there it makes no diffrence who the manager is unless it pepe or Jose and were not getting any of those top ones, with get some other yes man if he goes in the summer.

[tigerthesmurf85]

Not sure. The way things are going we could finish anywhere between 4th and 7th.

[Marc Overmars]

He should go because nothing changes, ever.

We have our ups, we have our downs, in general there is absolutley no consistency with results at all. It's the same every season, the only difference now is that we've been surpassed by fucking Spurs. We've stood still for years and been fortunate enough that no one has been good enough to crack the top 4, now we're paying the price for the stagnating while others move forwards.

We could be 7th next week if results go against us and looking at the fixtures, we may well be.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

WHilst this board are there it makes no diffrence who the manager is unless it pepe or Jose and were not getting any of those top ones, with get some other yes man if he goes in the summer.

Fact is, at any other club the bottom line wouldn't be tolerated - taken a team from title winning in brilliant fashion to tame finish outside the top four in England. If a manager took a club from safe midtable to relegation or the relegation zone, they'd be sacked, regardless of whatever transfer funds they have to offer. Wenger has been given eight years to achieve the relative of it, for us. Yeah the board might be as arsey and tight fisted as they are now but the boards don't often get sacked, managers do, I am afraid.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Fact is, at any other club the bottom line wouldn't be tolerated - taken a team from title winning in brilliant fashion to tame finish outside the top four in England. If a manager took a club from safe midtable to relegation or the relegation zone, they'd be sacked, regardless of whatever transfer funds they have to offer. Wenger has been given eight years to achieve the relative of it, for us. Yeah the board might be as arsey and tight fisted as they are now but the boards don't often get sacked, managers do, I am afraid.

Never said he should not be sacked, i said nout would change whilst the board are still here.

[Niall_Quinn]

Seriously though, a lot as happened at Arsenal over the last couple of years. Just none of it on the pitch. Huge changes. Some Yank in, the board pissed off with all the money, dodgy deals to grease the pay day, bitch fights between the pigs to see who got what. How can anyone ignore all this when wondering what the fuck is going on with this club? Wenger showed that eye-gouging stubbornness again today and he's done it so many times that maybe he should pay the price. But let's not forget about the cunts who have actively set out and managed to succeed in destroying this club. The greedy cunts have had their rewards, and then some. They didn't even leave a few scraps behind. Don't see why they get a free pass.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Never said he should not be sacked, i said nout would change whilst the board are still here.

I wasn't saying that. I am pointing out that you saying nothing would change isn't that relevant - the change of manager would happen at any other club, certainly any other top club. If nothing will change, then we can't possibly lose out.

[Marc Overmars]

Maybe it will take another beat down from United to get Wenger to spend. No doubt there will be a clamour for it if we lose.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Seriously though, a lot as happened at Arsenal over the last couple of years. Just none of it on the pitch. Huge changes. Some Yank in, the board pissed off with all the money, dodgy deals to grease the pay day, bitch fights between the pigs to see who got what. How can anyone ignore all this when wondering what the fuck is going on with this club? Wenger showed that eye-gouging stubbornness again today and he's done it so many times that maybe he should pay the price. But let's not forget about the cunts who have actively set out and managed to succeed in destroying this club. The greedy cunts have had their rewards, and then some. They didn't even leave a few scraps behind. Don't see why they get a free pass.

I guess the point is, that a change at board level isn't that likely to help us on the field. And Wenger is as much a 'part' of the board as the board itself, I think. A new manager wouldn't be afforded that luxury at the beginning and perhaps that would be a good thing.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I wasn't saying that. I am pointing out that you saying nothing would change isn't that relevant - the change of manager would happen at any other club, certainly any other top club. If nothing will change, then we can't possibly lose out.

I think im confusing you, what i meant was with this board the same funny finacial nonsense may still happen, not that a new manager would be tactially enept like wenger.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I want him gone regardless of where we finish. We have fallen well behind Tottenham and nothing has been or will be done to arrest further decline.

We need a change of direction and that simply will not change until the manager goes.

The team is in a horrific state of disrepair and Wenger and the Board have bled the cupboard dry - or will have done once they achieve their last big pay day when they cash in on Van Persie.

[Özim]

Seven defeats in the league already this season and we're only halfway through January....shameful to be honest.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I think im confusing you, what i meant was with this board the same funny finacial nonsense may still happen, not that a new manager would be tactially enept like wenger.

Of course, there's a chance nothing would realistically change, I had argued that myself in the summer - Newcastle went through many managers under Freddy Shepherd to no avail, at a time when they were one of the best clubs in England. However a new manager might even thrive under that environment. Or it might be Wenger co-creating that environment.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Maybe it will take another beat down from United to get Wenger to spend. No doubt there will be a clamour for it if we lose.

Wenger should have his targets now not if we get beaten go and panic buy its silly. imo he has written this season off and the board will be happy with 6th.

[Coney]

I think he needs too buy a striker this window that can find the net. He did something about the defence and midfield at the end of the summer window. Had he done it earlier, we would have been a number of points better off. I was prepared to go with what had been done as it did beef up the team with a bit of backbone. However, for a number of years now, we had players who can do fancy stuff in midfield but when it comes to the crunch - actually putting the ball in the net - then bar RvP, we have yet again been found lacking.

If he recognises that during this window and gets a finisher, then I think things will improve and I will see that as him being prepared to do the necessary. However, if, after patching up the team in summer he just sticks with what we have, then I think we need to find someone who is prepared to sort things out.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Additionally, I don't want us scraping into the top 4 this season, and I sure as fuck don't want us playing in the fucking Europa League.

We are crashing and burning this season, better for us long term if we do it spectacularly.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Jose to beat the filth to the Spanish title and the take on his most impossible challenge, killing the Arsenal board.

I think Jose is more likely to end up at Tottenham after Harry either goes to jail or takes up the England post.

[Niall_Quinn]

Chamakh wasn't even in the country today and we still couldn't win. We need a striker for sure, but not if it's another piece of shit.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think Jose is more likely to end up at Tottenham after Harry either goes to jail or takes up the England post.

And that would stop him killing our board? Why?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Additionally, I don't want us scraping into the top 4 this season, and I sure as fuck don't want us playing in the fucking Europa League.

We are crashing and burning this season, better for us long term if we do it spectacularly.

We need to go into the bascis next season missing out on the CL won't be a big loss tbh as long as we get a manger who knows what he is doing. We need pep to come it asap

[Niall_Quinn]

We need to go into the bascis next season missing out on the CL won't be a big loss tbh as long as we get a manger who knows what he is doing. We need pep to come it asap

Why would he come here?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Why would he come here?

The ultimate WUM to Cesc.

[Niall_Quinn]

The ultimate WUM to Cesc.

And Wenger to Barca, plus our board goes as part f the deal? Genius. And likely to happen.

[IBK]

I am known for my wumming. No, I am being serious - by Wenger's own admission getting fourth is compulsory and we're seeing exactly the same things we have seen for many seasons. It might not get any better with a new manager, it could even worse but at least we would have tried something new - we've been crying out for Wenger to do that but for whatever reason, he hasn't been.

I agree with you. If we finish outside the top 4 it will merely be concrete evidence of our decline under AW, and it won't get any better under him. Of course that's a risk with a new manager, but this season will have shown that Wenger's philosophy and methods won't cut it with us any more.

[Syn]

I don't know what to make of Arsene right now. He cares a lot for the club - more than any other manager would for his club IMO. He's obviously an intelligent guy. But he makes a lot of stupid decisions. Some of them might be forced - I still believe that, having built a squad with the quality of strikeforce of Wiltord, Henry, Bergkamp and Kanu, he knows the value of a good striker. He knows that Chamakh, Walcott, Gervinho are not near the same calibre. But even if his hands are tied a bit, any self-respecting man would not agree to be the fall guy just so he can have £5m a year shoved in his mouth. So those are the two ideas I'm trading off. I can't decided where the truth is along those two points. But I'm not liking what we're seeing.

[Coney]

I don't know what to make of Arsene right now. He cares a lot for the club - more than any other manager would for his club IMO. He's obviously an intelligent guy. But he makes a lot of stupid decisions. Some of them might be forced - I still believe that, having built a squad with the quality of strikeforce of Wiltord, Henry, Bergkamp and Kanu, he knows the value of a good striker. He knows that Chamakh, Walcott, Gervinho are not near the same calibre. But even if his hands are tied a bit, any self-respecting man would not agree to be the fall guy just so he can have £5m a year shoved in his mouth. So those are the two ideas I'm trading off. I can't decided where the truth is along those two points. But I'm not liking what we're seeing.

I hear what you say about not knowing what to make of Wenger. My thoughts are along the following lines..

You decide you need a bigger better modern stadium. You don't want to bust the club in the process. You want to build a team from young talent developed yourself, building a conquering side for a decade and more. All very fine and laudable.

However, the rest of the world moves on and things don't quite work out after a few years of trying. Meanwhile, the financial position improves.

Having seen (he and Gazidis implied) last season that things were not working out as planned, he said there would be a new approach. Fine. Nasri/Cesc issues made it difficult to sort out the midfield issues till last minute, though Arteta was a solid buy and something we have needed - experience. The defenders bought seemed to fit the bill.

However, Arshavin and Walcott have failed to produce goals, something you expect of attacking midfielders. They have had years to adapt and build up but this season, they have manifestly failed to deliver and it is time to call time on them. If Wenger spends NOW - this window - on buying players who can finish, I'll give him more time as it will show he has reacted to the situation. But if he persists with these players who have had more than enough chances to show they can deliver, then I think it will mean he is clinging onto the old dream and not accepting he has to move on. And if that is the case, it is time for the Arsenal to spend, not just on players, but on a new manager. He has a couple of weeks left to convince me that he has adapted.

[gunnerrrrr]

i have supported Wenger through thick and thin....even got into a punch up with a Manc back in 2007 over my opinion that he was the best coach in the world.

However what is now clear as day is this guy is not the same Wenger who created and moulded the great Arsenal sides upto the Invincibles.

We now have a very stubborn, overtly opinionated, ego driven manager who believes eveything he says is right and it should be his way or no way.
The guys refuses to change and adapt to football and what really makes me think this is even Mourhinio came out and said that no matter how well you tactically prepare, genius football players can change a game.

I believe Wenger used to believe this, hence the reason we saw him bring in Henry, Cesc, Pires, Vieria, Overmars, Petit, RVP etc etc

However looking at our players now, how can Wenger look at Theo, Asharvin, Chamack, Squilachi, Rosicky, Arteta, Ramsey, Diaby, Gervhinio etc and say that these guys are really top top class...world class and win take us to the top.

Its about more than money...its his stubborn nature, look at Oxo, Ryo, Park etc, he refuses to give them a chance and yet will keep on playing the predicatble and awful Asharvin, Chamack etc.

Wenger as a coach, he is still one of the best, but as a manager of a top football club, unless he admits that he needs to adapt...i am sorry he is past it.

[Marc Overmars]

I hear what you say about not knowing what to make of Wenger. My thoughts are along the following lines..

You decide you need a bigger better modern stadium. You don't want to bust the club in the process. You want to build a team from young talent developed yourself, building a conquering side for a decade and more. All very fine and laudable.

However, the rest of the world moves on and things don't quite work out after a few years of trying. Meanwhile, the financial position improves.

Having seen (he and Gazidis implied) last season that things were not working out as planned, he said there would be a new approach. Fine. Nasri/Cesc issues made it difficult to sort out the midfield issues till last minute, though Arteta was a solid buy and something we have needed - experience. The defenders bought seemed to fit the bill.

However, Arshavin and Walcott have failed to produce goals, something you expect of attacking midfielders. They have had years to adapt and build up but this season, they have manifestly failed to deliver and it is time to call time on them. If Wenger spends NOW - this window - on buying players who can finish, I'll give him more time as it will show he has reacted to the situation. But if he persists with these players who have had more than enough chances to show they can deliver, then I think it will mean he is clinging onto the old dream and not accepting he has to move on. And if that is the case, it is time for the Arsenal to spend, not just on players, but on a new manager. He has a couple of weeks left to convince me that he has adapted.

Isn't that the same clingy excuse people haul out for him all the time though?

The mantra is essentially admitting things aren't working out, yet there is always this extra patience found when people say they're waiting to see if he's prepared to change things up - knowing full well anything out of the ordinary is unlikely to happen.

Where does the line get drawn and when is enough, enough?

[Coney]

Isn't that the same clingy excuse people haul out for him all the time though?

The mantra is essentially admitting things aren't working out, yet there is always this extra patience found when people say they're waiting to see if he's prepared to change things up - knowing full well anything out of the ordinary is unlikely to happen.

Where does the line get drawn and when is enough, enough?

For a while, after the window closed and we finally had bought some players that gave the team some backbone, things were looking up. I had hoped that with a better defence, the midfield would be more attacking and then some confidence would come into the team. If the strike force stopped snatching at their shots and played them with more confidence, we would not be in this position. Walcott and Arshavin have not taken the great opportunity they have been given. Had they done so, this result would not have happened - or others over the last few matches - and we would be praising Wenger's great management.

I said in summer that this season would be the one where Wenger needs to show he has given up on the pure form of his plan and that he must buy and keep experienced players. He seemed to be beginning to do that. If he continues to do so over this window by buying to correct our inablility to score (bar RvP) then I will be OK with it. But he gets another couple of weeks from me before I give up on the most successful manager we ever had.

Why so long? Some of us had to wait 18 years before seeing us win a title - from Oct 1971 to 1989 for me - so a mere 5 years is nothing!

[Cripps_orig]

Voted no

He should go now

[Ralpheroo72]

Seriously though, a lot as happened at Arsenal over the last couple of years. Just none of it on the pitch. Huge changes. Some Yank in, the board pissed off with all the money, dodgy deals to grease the pay day, bitch fights between the pigs to see who got what. How can anyone ignore all this when wondering what the fuck is going on with this club? Wenger showed that eye-gouging stubbornness again today and he's done it so many times that maybe he should pay the price. But let's not forget about the cunts who have actively set out and managed to succeed in destroying this club. The greedy cunts have had their rewards, and then some. They didn't even leave a few scraps behind. Don't see why they get a free pass.

Top post! This club is in serious decline, and its a sad day when we get beat by a team like Swansea. Exactly 6 years ago today, we thumped Middlesbrough 7-0. Example of our sharp decline.

[Marc Overmars]

For a while, after the window closed and we finally had bought some players that gave the team some backbone, things were looking up. I had hoped that with a better defence, the midfield would be more attacking and then some confidence would come into the team. If the strike force stopped snatching at their shots and played them with more confidence, we would not be in this position. Walcott and Arshavin have not taken the great opportunity they have been given. Had they done so, this result would not have happened - or others over the last few matches - and we would be praising Wenger's great management.

I can't get on board with this. The forward deficiencies are not down to bad luck or anything like that, Theo, Arshavin etc have been poor all season but Wenger has persisted with them time and time again, he's shown a crazy unwillingness to use certain other options at his disposal. Of course if they pulled their weight we'd be signing a different tune, but you can paint any type of picture you want with ifs and buts, it doesn't change the reality of the situation.


I said in summer that this season would be the one where Wenger needs to show he has given up on the pure form of his plan and that he must buy and keep experienced players. He seemed to be beginning to do that. If he continues to do so over this window by buying to correct our inablility to score (bar RvP) then I will be OK with it. But he gets another couple of weeks from me before I give up on the most successful manager we ever had.

Ok he made signings in the summer, even though they were obviously enforced. Those signings probably rescued us from midtable nothingness - but only put us back on par with proceedings. If Cesc and Nasri were still here, we'd still be talking about big signings to kick us to the next level. If nothing happens over the next couple of weeks then what? In May we will be talking about giving him another summer before judging him in August, and the cycle begins again.


Why so long? Some of us had to wait 18 years before seeing us win a title - from Oct 1971 to 1989 for me - so a mere 5 years is nothing!

Old fuck.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Isn't that the same clingy excuse people haul out for him all the time though?

The mantra is essentially admitting things aren't working out, yet there is always this extra patience found when people say they're waiting to see if he's prepared to change things up - knowing full well anything out of the ordinary is unlikely to happen.

Where does the line get drawn and when is enough, enough?
Exactly. Things will not change, just as they have not in the past.

I wish him well and will always treasure some of the incredible football and moments any set of fans would be privileged to witness. But the world has moved on and Wenger hasn't.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Top post! This club is in serious decline, and its a sad day when we get beat by a team like Swansea. Exactly 6 years ago today, we thumped Middlesbrough 7-0. Example of our sharp decline.

What reminded you of that result?

[Ralpheroo72]

What reminded you of that result?

I got married the same day we crushed Middlesbrough 7 nil. Now I wish we would divorce Wenger.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I got married the same day we crushed Middlesbrough 7 nil. Now I wish we would divorce Wenger.

Technically, you're wrong.

The boro match was the day before your wedding.

[Kano]

I think he should have left at the end of last season tbh, but surely this has become an untenable situation now?

do you understand what untenable means?

on the other hand you may be right, we should get in owen coyle.

[Ralpheroo72]

Technically, you're wrong.

The boro match was the day before your wedding.

Technically Arsenal are still shit

[Cripps_orig]

do you understand what untenable means?

on the other hand you may be right, we should get in owen coyle.Cant be any worse

[Joker]

do you understand what untenable means?

on the other hand you may be right, we should get in owen coyle.

Adjective:
(esp. of a position or view) Not able to be maintained or defended against attack or objection: "this argument is clearly untenable".
Synonyms: indefensible

So I don't think I've used the word in the wrong context here, but I bow to your superior wisdom.

And I'm not saying we should get Owen Coyle, that's just another smokescreen created by the pro-Wenger brigade to counter any criticism of the man. Yes, there are better managers out there at the moment, because I wouldn't put Wenger in the top 30 managers in the world at the moment.

[Coney]

Technically Arsenal are still shit

Technically, so's your face.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Technically, so's your face.

Like looking in a mirror for you.

[Coney]

If nothing happens over the next couple of weeks then what? In May we will be talking about giving him another summer before judging him in August, and the cycle begins again.


No - this is it for me. Wenger and Gazidis made it perfectly clear at the end of last season that they had to change their approach and would do so. Another year of the same will make it clear that it is bullshit.

It's all very well talking about getting in the top 4 as a priority because of the money, but if you don't use it, then it is pointless. I'd rather we won the Europa League than just went on and on with no trophy. He needs to make it clear that he is going for something. Just staying in competitions each year is not enough - we have to win some, even if it means not trying for others.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I haven't voted because I think he should step aside now.

He won't be sacked.

[Niall_Quinn]

Adjective:
(esp. of a position or view) Not able to be maintained or defended against attack or objection: "this argument is clearly untenable".
Synonyms: indefensible

So I don't think I've used the word in the wrong context here, but I bow to your superior wisdom.

And I'm not saying we should get Owen Coyle, that's just another smokescreen created by the pro-Wenger brigade to counter any criticism of the man. Yes, there are better managers out there at the moment, because I wouldn't put Wenger in the top 30 managers in the world at the moment.

It's not the "pro-Wenger brigade", it's the pro-Arsenal brigade. Big difference.

There's a lot more going on at Arsenal than any of seem to be giving credit for. The whole place reminds me of a crime scene with the main perps having skilfully removed themselves from the frame. I'm not fooled.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It's not the "pro-Wenger brigade", it's the pro-Arsenal brigade. Big difference.

There's a lot more going on at Arsenal than any of seem to be giving credit for. The whole place reminds me of a crime scene with the main perps having skilfully removed themselves from the frame. I'm not fooled.

You should change your name to 'Columbo'.

[Niall_Quinn]

You should change your name to 'Columbo'.

No, I should change my name to, "Bloke who has worked behind the scenes in many a boardroom and knows exactly the type of shit that goes on and how the perps can and do spin it." You must admit, they are a rather quiet bunch, even though they have been slitting each other's throats for the past couple of years. You can still smell them though. They can never mask the stench.

[Coney]

No, I should change my name to, "Bloke who has worked behind the scenes in many a boardroom and knows exactly the type of shit that goes on and how the perps can and do spin it." You must admit, they are a rather quiet bunch, even though they have been slitting each other's throats for the past couple of years. You can still smell them though. They can never mask the stench.

The smell of pork with their snouts in the trough.

[Niall_Quinn]

The smell of pork with their snouts in the trough.

They did rather well, did they not? Certainly better than the team or the fans. But is Wenger in on it? I can't decide. He'd be such a fraud and hypocrite if he is.

[Niall_Quinn]

You should change your name to 'Columbo'.

Just one more question...

Arsenal have a man called Gazidis working for the club. Could you tell me what he does?

[Özim]

Just one more question...

Arsenal have a man called Gazidis working for the club. Could you tell me what he does?
Lots of Arselicking I think. Sometimes he acts as the club parrot as well.

[GP]

Just one more question...

Arsenal have a man called Gazidis working for the club. Could you tell me what he does?

He's the chief executive.

[Niall_Quinn]

He's the chief executive.

Chief executive. Sounds like a responsible position.

[Cripps_orig]

Just one more question...

Arsenal have a man called Gazidis working for the club. Could you tell me what he does?Talk BS

Would fit in well on GW

[Niall_Quinn]

Talk BS

Would fit in well on GW

In other words, he's your dad.

[Cripps_orig]

Could be any of our dads tbh including yours.

Remind me how Theo is shit cos he cant score but then he scores so hes shit cos he played shit :lol:

NQ :bow: Changes your stance on players god knows how many times just to back up ludicrous arguments

[Xhaka Can’t]

Could be any of our dads tbh including yours.

Remind me how Theo is shit cos he cant score but then he scores so hes shit cos he played shit :lol:

NQ :bow: Changes your stance on players god knows how many times just to back up ludicrous arguments

Why should he bother reminding someone who cannot grasp simple concepts?

[Niall_Quinn]

Could be any of our dads tbh including yours.

Remind me how Theo is shit cos he cant score but then he scores so hes shit cos he played shit :lol:

NQ :bow: Changes your stance on players god knows how many times just to back up ludicrous arguments

Nope. NQ, changes his stance on players when they change how they are playing. NQ, doesn't insist Chamakh and Walcott are good players even when the evidence screams the exact opposite.

[Power n Glory]

They should be looking at possible replacements now. Wenger is out of ideas.

[Niall_Quinn]

They should be looking at possible replacements now. Wenger is out of ideas.

You're implying the board isn't delighted with the job Wenger is doing? Whenever they descend to speak to the plebs they always say they are 100% happy with him.

[Power n Glory]

You're implying the board isn't delighted with the job Wenger is doing? Whenever they descend to speak to the plebs they always say they are 100% happy with him.

It's PR talk.

Let's leave this Board level talk alone and just talk about what's happening on the pitch. When we're losing to teams like Swansea and a coach with little Prem experience, it's best to focus on the football and where it's all going wrong. This result isn't shocking.

[gunnerrrrr]

It's PR talk.

Let's leave this Board level talk alone and just talk about what's happening on the pitch. When we're losing to teams like Swansea and a coach with little Prem experience, it's best to focus on the football and where it's all going wrong. This result isn't shocking.

spot on mate.

it Wenger who refuses to adapt to teams and play to our strenghts, its Wenger who keeps Oxo on the bench and Theo out wide etc etc

[Niall_Quinn]

It's PR talk.

Let's leave this Board level talk alone and just talk about what's happening on the pitch. When we're losing to teams like Swansea and a coach with little Prem experience, it's best to focus on the football and where it's all going wrong. This result isn't shocking.

But you and others, myself included, already agree it's the lack of quality on the pitch and depth in the squad that's the key issue. So if we ignore the board we might as well just say we are doing quite well considering what we have to work with.

[Tipsychubbs]

There will be plenty of excuses rolled out for him if/when we miss out on 4th.

He's going nowhere.

The board and manager stance will change from "We are playing in the CL, many teams would be lucky to be in our position" to "we are playing in Europe, many teams would be lucky to be in our position". Complacency and a lack of ambition, securing a place in European competition, has become an excuse for not winning trophies. We'll rest players in the CC and F.A. cup, our priority will have changed from securing the "4th Place Cup", to holding onto the "5th Place Cup".

[selassie]

The sad thing about today is that I knew we would lose, I even said to a fellow Gooner mate of mine we'll drop points.

I basically gave up with Arsene a long time ago, it wasn't even the final straw for me in the Summer, the damage had already been done way before that. We see these recurring patterns every single season, it's not even worth debating anymore.

I wanted him gone 2 seasons ago...nothing will change though. Come this summer he'll give us the annual "we'll sign 3 world class players", then we'll lose RVP & possibly one other high profile player, have we got any left?!!! after season ticket renewal time. Arsene will then sit on his hands and buy nobody and tell the world his team is ready and will come back stronger.

Sound familiar?

[Power n Glory]

But you and others, myself included, already agree it's the lack of quality on the pitch and depth in the squad that's the key issue. So if we ignore the board we might as well just say we are doing quite well considering what we have to work with.

Lack of quaality and depth stops us from being title contenders and challenging for the league. In that sense, yes. But can you use that excuse when we have just lost to Swansea? They have less depth and resources than us. Less experience at this level as well. You can't look at the Board for this sort of situation. It's down to tactics, preparation and management of the team.

On paper, our first team and bench are much better and more experienced. The argument about strength and depth doesn't wash here. It's no excuse. Wenger should be able to out fox a newly promoted team. That's the sort of game our Carling Cup kids team used to win. This isn't just a glitch in the matrix or maybe it is because it's fucking deja vu with this team every season. We struggled to be Leeds last week and only just lost to Fulham. Strength and depth has nothing to do with it.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It's PR talk.

Let's leave this Board level talk alone and just talk about what's happening on the pitch. When we're losing to teams like Swansea and a coach with little Prem experience, it's best to focus on the football and where it's all going wrong. This result isn't shocking.

So it is all PR talk when they give him new contracts and sleep in the bed of money he has generated for them, but it isn't PR talk when they talk about the 'war chest' of funds available to spend?

[Flavs]

Cant see any top bosses coming to us tbh, with the lack of investment and the constant stripping of all assets from the team while replacing them with cheap alternatives is hardly a juicy advertisement for the club is it?

Wenger has done well while losing most of his prodigies but with less pig-headeness could have done a lot better, there are a few things wrong here and there (least of all the tactics) but if Wenger wont change these he should be moved on and a more adaptable manager given a go.

Tis funny but was talking to a Chelsea fan yesterday who said that the word at the bridge is that they will go for Brendan Rogers if AVB doesn't Pep up, with him being known to most of the squad already, having the GHELS on side due to the Morinho history and showing real promise at Swansea they see him as a long term target.

I do wonder who our board would go for.

[selassie]

I do wonder who our board would go for.

They will leave that decision down to Arsene :rolleyes:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Dragan Stojkovic probably. If he is Wenger Jnr, circa 1997-2005 I don't think anybody will argue.

[Flavs]

I would like to see them give it to a young up and comer from the prem really, they wont obviously but it would be nice to see them give a chance to someone who is doing good things with a different team.

[Power n Glory]

So it is all PR talk when they give him new contracts and sleep in the bed of money he has generated for them, but it isn't PR talk when they talk about the 'war chest' of funds available to spend?

Quite frankly, how much we have to spend is irrelevant in this case and I don’t want to get caught up in this Board talk. I’ll dismiss it all as PR talk. In fact, I can’t really recall a situation where a Board has openly criticised a manager before giving him the sack. But again, it’s irrelevant. Wenger had money to spend in this transfer window.

[LDG]

Under normal circumstances, I would say he should go. And now. But this isn't normal circumstances, because whoever replaces him will have the exact same problem. No money, and no players.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

spot on mate.

it Wenger who refuses to adapt to teams and play to our strenghts, its Wenger who keeps Oxo on the bench and Theo out wide etc etc

what rubbish you go on about how if this was any other club he'd be sacked, so why has he not been is that part of the pr too, not its because the board are as useless as him they are as much to blame and those who think not are deluding themselves.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Adjective:
(esp. of a position or view) Not able to be maintained or defended against attack or objection: "this argument is clearly untenable".
Synonyms: indefensible

So I don't think I've used the word in the wrong context here, but I bow to your superior wisdom.

And I'm not saying we should get Owen Coyle, that's just another smokescreen created by the pro-Wenger brigade to counter any criticism of the man. Yes, there are better managers out there at the moment, because I wouldn't put Wenger in the top 30 managers in the world at the moment.

well you would not put RVP in the top 10 either so what you say is null and void anyways, but is the most stupid thing ever wrtitten on gw to say that.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Under normal circumstances, I would say he should go. And now. But this isn't normal circumstances, because whoever replaces him will have the exact same problem. No money, and no players.

Agree but a new manager can't do no harm if we don't make top 4.

[Flavs]

Under normal circumstances, I would say he should go. And now. But this isn't normal circumstances, because whoever replaces him will have the exact same problem. No money, and no players.

I disagree mate (not in a WUMming way either) I think there are managers out there who could do a lot better with the squad we have, I look at the way teams like Swansea, Norwich, Newcastle and so on and we are by far better on paper to the extent we could play our second string and be expected to get a result and yet look how they play. Funny how Windshere bet with the Spurs fans about finishing above them, he should have spoken to the Geordie fans.

People talk about getting new players in to push us on and get that 4th place, well what about getting a new boss in for the same reason? We have far too many complacent players in the squad getting 1st team games week in week out while under-performing and looking disinterested. They need a good kick up the arse and wont get it from Wenger.

Look at Sunderland? New boss, same players and the results have completed changed i would also expect QPR to pick up significantly as well. For me the time is now not the end of the season.

[Kano]

but I bow to your superior wisdom.
cheers, thanks

i'm not sure there is anything more gay than this whole 'pro/anti wenger brigade' categorising nonsense on the internet.

[Power n Glory]

I disagree mate (not in a WUMming way either) I think there are managers out there who could do a lot better with the squad we have, I look at the way teams like Swansea, Norwich, Newcastle and so on and we are by far better on paper to the extent we could play our second string and be expected to get a result and yet look how they play. Funny how Windshere bet with the Spurs fans about finishing above them, he should have spoken to the Geordie fans.

People talk about getting new players in to push us on and get that 4th place, well what about getting a new boss in for the same reason? We have far too many complacent players in the squad getting 1st team games week in week out while under-performing and looking disinterested. They need a good kick up the arse and wont get it from Wenger.

Look at Sunderland? New boss, same players and the results have completed changed i would also expect QPR to pick up significantly as well. For me the time is now not the end of the season.

:gp:

[LDG]

:haha:

Edit @ TT

[selassie]

Under normal circumstances, I would say he should go. And now. But this isn't normal circumstances, because whoever
replaces him will have the exact same problem. No money, and no players.

LDG, how is this not normal circumstances? What proof do we have that we have no money? We make millions on matchday every week for crying out loud, what on earth are we doing with this money? Seriously??????

Arsene did have some some money to spend in the summer, he just didn't spend it wisely. He spunks millions on youth prospects & projects. If his job was on the line and he was pragmatic he would have bought starting XI quality in the summer, not more projects.

Anyway if we move away from the financial side of things we have tactical issues too...lack of organisation in defence, patchy midfield, weak offence. If we didn't have RVP i'm pretty sure we'd be a mid table side...that's how bad things have got.

I cannot believe some of you guys on here still put up with Arsene, he should've been fired 3 seasons ago!

[LDG]

LDG, how is this not normal circumstances? What proof do we have that we have no money? We make millions on matchday every week for crying out loud, what on earth are we doing with this money? Seriously??????

Arsene did have some some money to spend in the summer, he just didn't spend it wisely. He spunks millions on youth prospects & projects. If his job was on the line and he was pragmatic he would have bought starting XI quality in the summer, not more projects.

Anyway if we move away from the financial side of things we have tactical issues too...lack of organisation in defence, patchy midfield, weak offence. If we didn't have RVP i'm pretty sure we'd be a mid table side...that's how bad things have got.

I cannot believe some of you guys on here still put up with Arsene, he should've been fired 3 seasons ago!

I wasn't saying he should stay, and I'm getting sick and tired of all the bullshit, and losing matches to inferior opposition.

At what point in my post did I say I was putting up with it? I'm not.

I thought we were fucking awful yesterday, and I'm usually pragmatic and patient when it comes to watching us. I was climbing the walls watching them huff and puff and give the ball away needlessly.

I want us to sign some players (the right players mind, not just spunking money for the sake of it) and I've siad before where I think we should be strengthening.

What I'm getting at, is that this board are happy to keep all the money we as fans spend, and I don't see that changing if we replace Arsene. In fact, I think he's done a half decent job in the transfer market with what he has been given to spend. I don't believe for one second that he wouldn't like more cash to spend on players. I don't believe he's that stupid. Stubborn and too much faith in youth / failed projects, maybe, but not thick.

The place is stinking to high heaven at the moment, but just changing the manager is not the answer. The only way we change our fortunes, is to start putting football higher on the list of priorities, from the board, to the manager, to the players....and until that changes, it won't make one bit of difference.

[Power n Glory]

This is a tactical issue. The Board and finances come into the equation much later and right now it is irrelevant. We have lost to teams that can’t compete with us financially and on paper have players with less experience and skill. Managers with less experience and no experience of winning the Prem title or that much Premier League experience in fact. We struggled to beat Leeds last week. That should tell you where we are at. It has nothing to do with the Board at this stage. Our team is more than capable of beating Fulham and Swansea. It shouldn’t take a late goal from Henry to beat Leeds.

[Niall_Quinn]

This is a tactical issue. The Board and finances come into the equation much later and right now it is irrelevant. We have lost to teams that can’t compete with us financially and on paper have players with less experience and skill. Managers with less experience and no experience of winning the Prem title or that much Premier League experience in fact. We struggled to beat Leeds last week. That should tell you where we are at. It has nothing to do with the Board at this stage. Our team is more than capable of beating Fulham and Swansea. It shouldn’t take a late goal from Henry to beat Leeds.

Wenger is certainly a stubborn mule. But he can only send out what he has and he can only instruct them how to play and then hope they can muster up enough brain activity to follow the instructions. I'm sure he doesn't say, "Hey, Theo - what I want you to do is be a complete fuck up for 90 minutes. Hey Aaron, I'd like you to dwell on the ball and when you get into the danger area make sure you try the impossible stuff rather than keeping it simple. Hey Andre, don't bother running and forget about that diet we were talking about."

We need better players than these, or at least we need to introduce better players to help what we have learn and improve. Wenger turns profits in teh transfer windows and always scrapes us into 4th place for the CL cash. If you stand back and look, what does this tell you? The primary business of Arsenal is not football, it's making money. If this is Wenger's idea then he should be sacked, of course. However, if this is Wenger's idea and the board has just been sitting there the whole time doing fuck all because they are too scared of him to act - well fuck them too, they should be out of here. whichever way you slice it, you can't ignore the board in all of this. They are clearly part of the problem, one way or the other.

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger and the board are one, IMO.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger is certainly a stubborn mule. But he can only send out what he has and he can only instruct them how to play and then hope they can muster up enough brain activity to follow the instructions. I'm sure he doesn't say, "Hey, Theo - what I want you to do is be a complete fuck up for 90 minutes. Hey Aaron, I'd like you to dwell on the ball and when you get into the danger area make sure you try the impossible stuff rather than keeping it simple. Hey Andre, don't bother running and forget about that diet we were talking about."

We need better players than these, or at least we need to introduce better players to help what we have learn and improve. Wenger turns profits in teh transfer windows and always scrapes us into 4th place for the CL cash. If you stand back and look, what does this tell you? The primary business of Arsenal is not football, it's making money. If this is Wenger's idea then he should be sacked, of course. However, if this is Wenger's idea and the board has just been sitting there the whole time doing fuck all because they are too scared of him to act - well fuck them too, they should be out of here. whichever way you slice it, you can't ignore the board in all of this. They are clearly part of the problem, one way or the other.

But somehow managers of lesser teams operating on smaller budgets with less talented players can get a performance out of their lot. It’s a poor excuse.

[Niall_Quinn]

But somehow managers of lesser teams operating on smaller budgets with less talented players can get a performance out of their lot. It’s a poor excuse.

There's the big issue though. Are those players on the other teams really less talented or do we have a gang of monkeys who are assumed to be talented despite the evidence we see on the pitch. Is Theo REALLY talented? Does Arshavin REALLY have anything left? Is Ramsey good enough to be the kid who one minute was a rising star and next has to be the finished article and leader in the middle? Does Chamakh have any talent whatsoever? Is Gervinho any better than that Seggersson bloke we watched yesterday? I'm not convinced our players are more talented and when you look at it are they really that more experienced in the key areas?

[Flavs]

Is Gervinho any better than that Seggersson bloke we watched yesterday?

I thought he changed the game when he came on yesterday, not like that Arteta bloke...

[Power n Glory]

There's the big issue though. Are those players on the other teams really less talented or do we have a gang of monkeys who are assumed to be talented despite the evidence we see on the pitch. Is Theo REALLY talented? Does Arshavin REALLY have anything left? Is Ramsey good enough to be the kid who one minute was a rising star and next has to be the finished article and leader in the middle? Does Chamakh have any talent whatsoever? Is Gervinho any better than that Seggersson bloke we watched yesterday? I'm not convinced our players are more talented and when you look at it are they really that more experienced in the key areas?

That’s a ridiculous argument. You can’t flip it to suggest Swansea, Fulham and Leeds have players just as or more talented than ours.

[Niall_Quinn]

That’s a ridiculous argument. You can’t flip it to suggest Swansea, Fulham and Leeds have players just as or more talented than ours.

Leeds?

All I know is we were outplayed by both the others mentioned and we haven't been showing much of the control we had become used to. Is it a crime to even suggest our current crop of players might not be all that?

[Flavs]

That’s a ridiculous argument. You can’t flip it to suggest Swansea, Fulham and Leeds have players just as or more talented than ours.

Why?

[Power n Glory]

Leeds?

All I know is we were outplayed by both the others mentioned and we haven't been showing much of the control we had become used to. Is it a crime to even suggest our current crop of players might not be all that?

If that's your stance, I won't argue with you. I just think it's ridiculous. Give another manager our players and you'd see a different performance.

[Kano]

Why?

otherwise they'd be higher than us in the league.

[Flavs]

otherwise they'd be higher than us in the league.

Not really, there is a lot more to this game than just talent

[Kano]

you can't have one without the other to be in the top section of the league.

a win yesterday and this conversation wouldn't even be taking place. classic internet rage.

[Niall_Quinn]

otherwise they'd be higher than us in the league.

Season isn't over by a long shot. A few more injuries and fuck knows where we'll be. Nobody has mentioned it, probably because we're all treading on egg shells, but if He Who Shall Not Be Named gets injured we are well and truly fucked.

[bignev]

At one point I thought we could do it but the result yesterday convinced me that we won't finish in the top four.

We're an average team who are being carried by one fantastic player. Yes we work hard which can be enough to win you a football match but to win trophies you need some quality in the team and we just don't have it. In fact we are carrying players so we're making it even harder for ourselves.

We cannot continue to play Walcott and Arshavin when it's clear that they just aren't good enough. I'm even hearing that Walcott wants a payrise and the worst thing is I think he'll get it. He must be earning double what Sinclair and Dyer earn and they showed him up yesterday!

I'm a big fan of the work ethic that Wenger has brought into the team this year but we need to add to that with quality. It seems that he seriously isn't going to sign anyone which is criminal.

When we don't finish fourth we will lose the few good players we do have which is only going to make it worse.

We are going to have to stick with Wenger until the end of the season but then I want him gone and let's hope he takes Walcott & Arshavin with him.

[Niall_Quinn]

you can't have one without the other to be in the top section of the league.

a win yesterday and this conversation wouldn't even be taking place. classic internet rage.

No, not Internet rage. It's the fact we fell at a major hurdle. We needed the points there. There have been several key occasions where the teams we are hoping to catch have dropped points and we just haven't been able to capitalise. This was another one of those occasions coming close after the Fulham fuck up. People are starting to see the old patterns emerge and it's sort of depressing.

[Flavs]

you can't have one without the other to be in the top section of the league.

a win yesterday and this conversation wouldn't even be taking place. classic internet rage.

Nonsense I think quite a few people have been questioning whether or not we have talent in the squad or the illusion of it for over 3 years now. Is Chamakh really more talented than Steve Morrison at Norwich? Is Walcott more talented than Scott Sinclair?

I think its somewhat an arrogant leftover from the good old days to think we are a far more talented team than some of those around or or that we "deserve" a top for finish just for that talent. What about graft? Tactical nous? gamemanship? Mental application? and so on.

I look at the squad and i see it more and more as a polished turd sadly

[Syn]

We're not a talented team. We struggle to get passing movements going like Swansea did yesterday. We don't pass quickly, the first-touch is average, no difference in pure footballing talent between ourselves and teams around 6th-10th. But if we finish around 5th then it's because we're better in defence and more resilient than teams 6th-10th. I know we weren't exactly solid yesterday but we usually are ok in defence..we just can't score enough goals and attack well. Funny how things change. Arstoke FC imo.

[Kano]

No, not Internet rage. It's the fact we fell at a major hurdle. We needed the points there. There have been several key occasions where the teams we are hoping to catch have dropped points and we just haven't been able to capitalise. This was another one of those occasions coming close after the Fulham fuck up. People are starting to see the old patterns emerge and it's sort of depressing.
given our start, we have always been playing catch up. then like any other team we were due to drop form, which was going to hurt more considering our start, so it's a catch 22 of sorts. we are in a position to challenge for 4th, which is what we expected a week ago. if we had 4 points with games to go i'd panic. but not now. nothing will happen in the transfer window but show me the point in facing up to 4/5 months of gloom? we've come back from an almost apocalyptic start to where we are, so it is within this lot to grab that 4th place come may.

[Flavs]

more resilient than teams 6th-10th.

That's the key failing of our squad and the management, resilience or the lack of it, no mental resilience, no physical resilience and no testicular resilience

[Syn]

That's the key failing of our squad and the management, resilience or the lack of it, no mental resilience, no physical resilience and no testicular resilience

Nah, we've been ok at that this season. We just don't have the quality to win lots of games. If you're suggesting we have no resilience AND no talent then we really would be 15th by now.

[Flavs]

Nah, we've been ok at that this season. We just don't have the quality to win lots of games. If you're suggesting we have no resilience AND no talent then we really would be 15th by now.

I didn't say we have no talent, i said it was ridiculous to think that talent is enough to get a top 4 finish and its ridiculous to think that other teams don't have players as talented as ours. We aren't resilient IMO we are a little bunch of pussy whipped beharches who are about as good at holding onto a lead as a amputee dog walker

[Kano]

We aren't resilient IMO we are a little bunch of pussy whipped beharches who are about as good at holding onto a lead as a amputee dog walker
well since that recognised 'change' in our set up after blackburn/utd these are the first leads we've lost.

[Syn]

I didn't say we have no talent, i said it was ridiculous to think that talent is enough to get a top 4 finish and its ridiculous to think that other teams don't have players as talented as ours. We aren't resilient IMO we are a little bunch of pussy whipped beharches who are about as good at holding onto a lead as a amputee dog walker

I see what you're saying. Supposing we finish 5th...on average, we must be 5th best in the league at doing stuff. So if talent-wise we're 6th, we must be better than 6th at something else.

IMO when we had that run with Jenkinson, Santos and Vermaelen, Koscielny/Mertesacker and Szczesny, our back 5 was one of the strongest around and scrapping a load of unconvincing wins was the reason behind a good comeback after the horrible start. The last couple of games are very worrying because we've gone back to the same sluggish performances as the start of the season (and last season). Letting Swansea score straight after equalising is the sort of thing I hoped we had improved on because when we were battling to wins at Stamford Bridge and in Marseille, we were showing a lot more fight than we'd been used to. Ups and downs tbh. It's hard to see another good burst of games unless Wilshere and Sagna quickly return and improve us a lot. No pressure.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

LDG, how is this not normal circumstances? What proof do we have that we have no money? We make millions on matchday every week for crying out loud, what on earth are we doing with this money? Seriously??????

Arsene did have some some money to spend in the summer, he just didn't spend it wisely. He spunks millions on youth prospects & projects. If his job was on the line and he was pragmatic he would have bought starting XI quality in the summer, not more projects.

Anyway if we move away from the financial side of things we have tactical issues too...lack of organisation in defence, patchy midfield, weak offence. If we didn't have RVP i'm pretty sure we'd be a mid table side...that's how bad things have got.

I cannot believe some of you guys on here still put up with Arsene, he should've been fired 3 seasons ago!

What proof do we have we don't, we will never know till a knew manager comes in, no real way of knowing. IMO AW is still one of the best managers out there and a clever man, but for some reason he likes to make himself look liek the plank every week.

Its not about us putting up with Arsene wtf can we do if the board don't sack him were not his bosses are we not much we can do.

He was not fired 3 years ago because he met his targets end of. but finishing 5th is not his target and should be sacked if we do, that said, finishing 4th will see him get some silly praise because he did it with this sqaud and how they all said we not even finish 6th etc.

Their seems to be no one who will stand up to AW in the board and this is the problem he gets aways with far too much and they let him.

[Joker]

given our start, we have always been playing catch up. then like any other team we were due to drop form, which was going to hurt more considering our start, so it's a catch 22 of sorts. we are in a position to challenge for 4th, which is what we expected a week ago. if we had 4 points with games to go i'd panic. but not now. nothing will happen in the transfer window but show me the point in facing up to 4/5 months of gloom? we've come back from an almost apocalyptic start to where we are, so it is within this lot to grab that 4th place come may.

We can't use our start as an excuse. Wenger knew that the start of the season was going to be difficult, with Liverpool and Man Utd in the first month of the season, and he failed to plan properly which means we faced those two teams woefully understrength. It was only after the 8-2 did Wenger decide to strengthen, and even then the signings he made were unconvincing.

Why should we ignore the start of the season, as if it was beyond our control? We could easily have had a much better start if we had done better business in the transfer window earlier, instead Wenger made a complete horlicks of it as usual, which forced us to play catch-up from the start.

And I agree that our squad is actually not particularly talented. Combine that with a lack of grit, concentration and spirit (especially when Wilshere and Vermaelen are missing) and it's no surprise we're being outplayed by teams like Fulham. It's heartbreaking how we've fallen so far in such a short time.

[Power n Glory]

We've been dropping points against newly promoted teams for years. This isn't anything new. This isn't the best team we've had but I can't see why the coach of Swansea can pick up league one players and get them working as an efficient unit and why someone like Tony Pubis can make Stoke so hard to beat when he's working with players that are very limited. These guys can't attract the sort of players we attract. It's a complete reveres of what's been said on here about City and Chelsea's spending power. It's backwards. We have an advantage over these clubs in regards to spending power and there is nothing stopping Wenger from picking up a Robert Huth, Shawcross, Delap, Dyer or Vorm in the transfer market. The excuses are getting silly on here.

[Kano]

We can't use our start as an excuse. Wenger knew that the start of the season was going to be difficult, with Liverpool and Man Utd in the first month of the season, and he failed to plan properly which means we faced those two teams woefully understrength. It was only after the 8-2 did Wenger decide to strengthen, and even then the signings he made were unconvincing.

Why should we ignore the start of the season, as if it was beyond our control? We could easily have had a much better start if we had done better business in the transfer window earlier, instead Wenger made a complete horlicks of it as usual, which forced us to play catch-up from the start.

And I agree that our squad is actually not particularly talented. Combine that with a lack of grit, concentration and spirit (especially when Wilshere and Vermaelen are missing) and it's no surprise we're being outplayed by teams like Fulham. It's heartbreaking how we've fallen so far in such a short time.
pick out the word excuse in my post. it doesn't exist.

we could've, should've, would've yada yada. great, thanks for the insight. back in the real world, we are where we are, our targets were set for 4th, whether we like it or not, it's the minimal achievement and we're still on target for it.

and anyway, you would've taken owen coyle as manager, so forgive me if i overlook your assessment skills.

go and bore someone else with your drivel.

[selassie]

What proof do we have we don't, we will never know till a knew manager comes in, no real way of knowing. IMO AW is still one of the best managers out there and a clever man, but for some reason he likes to make himself look liek the plank every week.

Its not about us putting up with Arsene wtf can we do if the board don't sack him were not his bosses are we not much we can do.

He was not fired 3 years ago because he met his targets end of. but finishing 5th is not his target and should be sacked if we do, that said, finishing 4th will see him get some silly praise because he did it with this sqaud and how they all said we not even finish 6th etc.

Their seems to be no one who will stand up to AW in the board and this is the problem he gets aways with far too much and they let him.

Charlie, I can't accept that as a club we're broke, the numbers just don't stack up whichever way you look at it. Looking at this high level, we make millions on transfers every season now & make money on matchday, considerably more than what we use to bring in say 6 or 7 years ago. I accept we have a big expenditure on wages and the like, but what I can't and won't accept is why we net spend like a club in League One.

Is Arsene on some kind of protest in regards to clubs spending? Every single season we asset strip the squad and he either replaces the stars with kids or in some cases doesn't replace them at all.

Sure...nothing you can do about it but I whilst I thank Arsene for all he's done I think it's time for him to move on now. He's lost his way IMHO...doesn't have what it takes to win.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We can't use our start as an excuse. Wenger knew that the start of the season was going to be difficult, with Liverpool and Man Utd in the first month of the season, and he failed to plan properly which mean we faced those two teams woefully understrength. It was only after the 8-2 did Wenger decide to strengthen, and even then the signings he made were unconvincing.

Why should we ignore the start of the season, as if it was beyond our control? We could easily have had a much better start if we had done better business in the transfer window earlier, instead Wenger made a complete horlicks of it as usual, which forced us to play catch-up from the start.

And I agree that our squad is not actually particularly talented. Combine that with a lack of grit, concentration and spirit (especially when Wilshere and Vermaelen are missing) and it's no surprise we're being outplayed by teams like Fulham. It's heartbreaking how we've fallen so far in such a short time.

Not really its been builiding up for years this has, end of the day you can't always be on top but we as gooners never thought we'd see a day when we were not in the top 4 or a top club. It was going to happen sooner or later and it has, its just not a pretty sight.

There is no point going on about if AW had spent in summer etc thats past its about now and if he rectify's his problems in this window he should be judge on.

If by 31st jan/1st feb which ever day the window closes and he has not strenghend then we will know how ambitious this club is, because they won't have convinced RVP to stay which will mean losing another world class stars and no top names will be in in the summer either.

once we get out the top 4 imo we won't be back in it for a while, thats the scary thing.

[Joker]

pick out the word excuse in my post. it doesn't exist.

we could've, should've, would've yada yada. great, thanks for the insight. back in the real world, we are where we are, our targets were set for 4th, whether we like it or not, it's the minimal achievement and we're still on target for it.

go and bore someone else with your drivel.

We're not on target for it are we, as we're fifth, with Liverpool and Newcastle breathing down our necks and Chelsea (who's squad is bigger and more talented, plus they're making reinforcements this January) 4 points ahead of us. Moreover, it is entirely right to question why our target is set for 4th. In 07-08, we were looking to win the title; same in 09-10. In a few years time, our targets have dropped alarmingly, and it's not simply because of Man City's money either. We could have at least attempted to challenge them for the trophy, even if their resources meant that it would have been difficult. The lack of ambition of the manager and the board is pathetic.

And I'm not going to stop posting simply because you find my posts "drivel". This is a messageboard where everyone is allowed their say, whether you disagree with them or not. I've been tempted to report many of your posts where you've abused me and called me a City fan, but I didn't because I believe in freedom of speech.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Charlie, I can't accept that as a club we're broke, the numbers just don't stack up whichever way you look at it. Looking at this high level, we make millions on transfers every season now & make money on matchday, considerably more than what we use to bring in say 6 or 7 years ago. I accept we have a big expenditure on wages and the like, but what I can't and won't accept is why we net spend like a club in League One.

Is Arsene on some kind of protest in regards to clubs spending? Every single season we asset strip the squad and he either replaces the stars with kids or in some cases doesn't replace them at all.

Sure...nothing you can do about it but I whilst I thank Arsene for all he's done I think it's time for him to move on now. He's lost his way IMHO...doesn't have what it takes to win.

agree with this 100% and like i have said its time for him to have a new challenge as i feel he needs it and don't thing all this stress is good for him tbh. All im saying no one knows either one way or another if we have money or not.

obviously we do other wise we not have spend loads on AA or AOC or even Theo, but i don't think we have loads to go and splash 40 mill on neymar (who id love here).

IMO the board are hoping we drop out the top 4 (more dolla in their pockets) as we will pay less wages as top earners won't come here.

AW IMO has to stand up to the board now because its a case of Go hard or Go Home.

[LDG]

That's what she said to me last night :(

[Flavs]

And I'm not going to stop posting simply because you find my posts "drivel". This is a messageboard where everyone is allowed their say, whether you disagree with them or not. I've been tempted to report many of your posts where you've abused me and called me a City fan, but I didn't because I believe in freedom of speech.

:gp:

Jesus leave him alone to have his say will you

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That's what she said to me last night :(

:pal: LDG

[Niall_Quinn]

I've been tempted to report many of your posts where you've abused me and called me a City fan, but I didn't because I believe in freedom of speech.

Careful there, somebody who believes in freedom of speech would never be even tempted to consider censorship or the sanctioning of speech. In fact if you make this mistake again I'm going to report you, and I'm just about the biggest advocate for free speech you could ever find.

[Fist of Lehmann]

IMO the board are hoping we drop out the top 4 (more dolla in their pockets) as we will pay less wages as top earners won't come here.
What? That doesn't even make sense.

Sure they're fat, corrupt, outdated vampires but they're not actively retarded.

[LDG]

:haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

More likely they have some fantasy plan whereby the financial fair play rules kick in and everyone is dragged back to our miserly level. That would mean they are delusional though, which is hard to believe. Then again, our performances on the pitch are hard to believe but they still happen.

[Flavs]

What's all this "if" stuff anyway? There is no way on gods green earth are we finishing in the top 4

[Olivier's xmas twist]

What? That doesn't even make sense.

Sure they're fat, corrupt, outdated vampires but they're not actively retarded.

Fair plays

[Letters]

i have supported Wenger through thick and thin....even got into a punch up with a Manc back in 2007 over my opinion that he was the best coach in the world.

However what is now clear as day is this guy is not the same Wenger who created and moulded the great Arsenal sides upto the Invincibles.



I disagree. If anything the problem is he IS the same Wenger. Football has changed and he hasn't. When he arrived at Arsenal he brought in new training methods, new diets, our team was fitter than everyone else and it showed. Wenger's knowledge of the European and to an extent worldwide game was (at the time) unparalleled and he was able to cherry pick fantastic players before most other clubs had even heard of them.

Other clubs have caught up. They've got their squads as fit if not fitter than ours, they have scouts around the world who can identify talent. I don't think Wenger has changed it's just that his methods which were once revolutionary are now routine.

Also when Wenger started you didn't have multi-billionaire owners throwing obscene amounts around, salaries and transfer fees had started to spiral but not like now when it's all gone mental.

The frustrating thing is in some ways Wenger has done well, in an era of billionaires and other clubs throwing silly money around he has kept us relatively competitive despite spending relatively little. But at the same time we've failed to win trophies despite being in positions where we could and probably should have done on several occasions.

I don't know whether his lack of spending is a stubborn attempt to do things the 'right' way or whether the board encourage him not to spend too much or actively forbid him from spending more. Who knows what's going on inside the club but something is going very wrong.

Some people on here seem to think we should be top 2 every year like we once were and us not being so is a failure. I disagree. With City and Chelsea both able to outspend us and Utd too having more resources than us it is far harder to win the title than it's ever been. But Spurs are a club who aren't in the CL, don't have the prestige or finances to offer anything like the wages we can and yet have still assembled a squad which is now looking better than ours. That and the aforementioned to finish the job when in positions to win trophies are damning.

If anyone thinks that we're suddenly going to be serious title contenders every year when Wenger leaves and that any idiot could do better then they're deluding themselves. But it's getting to the point where we have to try something different

[Niall_Quinn]

I disagree. If anything the problem is he IS the same Wenger. Football has changed and he hasn't. When he arrived at Arsenal he brought in new training methods, new diets, our team was fitter than everyone else and it showed. Wenger's knowledge of the European and to an extent worldwide game was (at the time) unparalleled and he was able to cherry pick fantastic players before most other clubs had even heard of them.

Other clubs have caught up. They've got their squads as fit if not fitter than ours, they have scouts around the world who can identify talent. I don't think Wenger has changed it's just that his methods which were once revolutionary are now routine.

Also when Wenger started you didn't have multi-billionaire owners throwing obscene amounts around, salaries and transfer fees had started to spiral but not like now when it's all gone mental.

The frustrating thing is in some ways Wenger has done well, in an era of billionaires and other clubs throwing silly money around he has kept us relatively competitive despite spending relatively little. But at the same time we've failed to win trophies despite being in positions where we could and probably should have done on several occasions.

I don't know whether his lack of spending is a stubborn attempt to do things the 'right' way or whether the board encourage him not to spend too much or actively forbid him from spending more. Who knows what's going on inside the club but something is going very wrong.

Some people on here seem to think we should be top 2 every year like we once were and us not being so is a failure. I disagree. With City and Chelsea both able to outspend us and Utd too having more resources than us it is far harder to win the title than it's ever been. But Spurs are a club who aren't in the CL, don't have the prestige or finances to offer anything like the wages we can and yet have still assembled a squad which is now looking better than ours. That and the aforementioned to finish the job when in positions to win trophies are damning.

If anyone thinks that we're suddenly going to be serious title contenders every year when Wenger leaves and that any idiot could do better then they're deluding themselves. But it's getting to the point where we have to try something different

We should be top 2 every year.

[Coney]

We should be top 2 every year.

No. Top 1. :good:

[Flavs]

I disagree. If anything the problem is he IS the same Wenger. Football has changed and he hasn't. When he arrived at Arsenal he brought in new training methods, new diets, our team was fitter than everyone else and it showed. Wenger's knowledge of the European and to an extent worldwide game was (at the time) unparalleled and he was able to cherry pick fantastic players before most other clubs had even heard of them.

Other clubs have caught up. They've got their squads as fit if not fitter than ours, they have scouts around the world who can identify talent. I don't think Wenger has changed it's just that his methods which were once revolutionary are now routine.

Also when Wenger started you didn't have multi-billionaire owners throwing obscene amounts around, salaries and transfer fees had started to spiral but not like now when it's all gone mental.

The frustrating thing is in some ways Wenger has done well, in an era of billionaires and other clubs throwing silly money around he has kept us relatively competitive despite spending relatively little. But at the same time we've failed to win trophies despite being in positions where we could and probably should have done on several occasions.

I don't know whether his lack of spending is a stubborn attempt to do things the 'right' way or whether the board encourage him not to spend too much or actively forbid him from spending more. Who knows what's going on inside the club but something is going very wrong.

Some people on here seem to think we should be top 2 every year like we once were and us not being so is a failure. I disagree. With City and Chelsea both able to outspend us and Utd too having more resources than us it is far harder to win the title than it's ever been. But Spurs are a club who aren't in the CL, don't have the prestige or finances to offer anything like the wages we can and yet have still assembled a squad which is now looking better than ours. That and the aforementioned to finish the job when in positions to win trophies are damning.

If anyone thinks that we're suddenly going to be serious title contenders every year when Wenger leaves and that any idiot could do better then they're deluding themselves. But it's getting to the point where we have to try something different

:goodpost:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If anyone thinks that we're suddenly going to be serious title contenders every year when Wenger leaves and that any idiot could do better then they're deluding themselves. But it's getting to the point where we have to try something different

:gp:

much as i agree with that if we finish 5th would a new manager do anyworse then wenger.

The club has a Stench around the place and needs the doors to be open do the bad smells in the place can be let out. Listening to parlour on Talk sport yesterday and he said some good things, like he believes we don't have money and wenger is covering for the board.

All i want to know is what is really going on at the club, because MR Wenger is still a top manager and a clever man and its strange to see him act like a plank for the world and his sister to see. I'd like for this guy to leave the club a a hero not some washed out loser he is being made to be.

And suprise suprise Stan K is quite again you'd have though for someone who put so much money in this club he have said or done something to show more ambtion by now.

[Fats]

I disagree. If anything the problem is he IS the same Wenger. Football has changed and he hasn't. When he arrived at Arsenal he brought in new training methods, new diets, our team was fitter than everyone else and it showed. Wenger's knowledge of the European and to an extent worldwide game was (at the time) unparalleled and he was able to cherry pick fantastic players before most other clubs had even heard of them.

Other clubs have caught up. They've got their squads as fit if not fitter than ours, they have scouts around the world who can identify talent. I don't think Wenger has changed it's just that his methods which were once revolutionary are now routine.

Also when Wenger started you didn't have multi-billionaire owners throwing obscene amounts around, salaries and transfer fees had started to spiral but not like now when it's all gone mental.

The frustrating thing is in some ways Wenger has done well, in an era of billionaires and other clubs throwing silly money around he has kept us relatively competitive despite spending relatively little. But at the same time we've failed to win trophies despite being in positions where we could and probably should have done on several occasions.

I don't know whether his lack of spending is a stubborn attempt to do things the 'right' way or whether the board encourage him not to spend too much or actively forbid him from spending more. Who knows what's going on inside the club but something is going very wrong.

Some people on here seem to think we should be top 2 every year like we once were and us not being so is a failure. I disagree. With City and Chelsea both able to outspend us and Utd too having more resources than us it is far harder to win the title than it's ever been. But Spurs are a club who aren't in the CL, don't have the prestige or finances to offer anything like the wages we can and yet have still assembled a squad which is now looking better than ours. That and the aforementioned to finish the job when in positions to win trophies are damning.

If anyone thinks that we're suddenly going to be serious title contenders every year when Wenger leaves and that any idiot could do better then they're deluding themselves. But it's getting to the point where we have to try something different

Letters did you cut and paste this from another site? Seems to objective for you to write.

[Power n Glory]

:gp:

much as i agree with that if we finish 5th would a new manager do anyworse then wenger.

The club has a Stench around the place and needs the doors to be open do the bad smells in the place can be let out. Listening to parlour on Talk sport yesterday and he said some good things, like he believes we don't have money and wenger is covering for the board.

All i want to know is what is really going on at the club, because MR Wenger is still a top manager and a clever man and its strange to see him act like a plank for the world and his sister to see. I'd like for this guy to leave the club a a hero not some washed out loser he is being made to be.

And suprise suprise Stan K is quite again you'd have though for someone who put so much money in this club he have said or done something to show more ambtion by now.

I don't know about that. It sounds like wishful thinking to me. He could be covering for the Board, but he's a very stubborn guy and you can see it in the way he manages the team. He insists on the same formation and persists with the same players game after game even when it constantly fails him. For a guy to be so stubborn and rigid when it comes to on field play and tactics...it just suggests to me that he's just a stubborn with transfers. Why would he buy he wants to persist with the same players? It's not as if he's exhausted all options here. Certain players could have been benched or tried in a new position ages ago.

[Flavs]

I actually think he will walk if we don't finish top 4. Now he has seen that some of his pet projects are actually a bit poo and that football has become about who has the richest backers rather than the dream state economics he loves so much i think he has probably had enough.

Add into that the TV issues, modern refereeing and the ever growing greed we see in the game i think he will be best out of it.

[Niall_Quinn]

We've been pretty patient considering. It's time for the board and the manager to tell the fans what's happening. What the true goals of the club are. Where we expect to be in a year from now, five years from now, and how we are going to get there. I guess these guys don't feel they owe the fans that much. This is where the real problem lies. They probably believe they are running a business whereas we all know they are running a football club which is a very, very different thing whether they like it or not. Who turns up every week at the Orange HQ with orange scarves chanting "Orange, There's only one Orange!"? Only Letters. If they are supporters of the club too, which they claim they are, then they need to get off their horses and have a chat with the other supporters who actually kick cash in rather than take it out. Is it really too much to ask?

[Dog Toffee]

Considering we're going to win the PL this year I don't think Wenger should go. Seriously though, If we finished 5th or worse which we wont the simple question is- How could sacking Wenger help and who would replace him that could do better with what we have? I think If we sacked AW it'd be harder to sign players as playing under him is probably a big reason why players sign and RvP would leave. The leaving of Wenger needs to be carefully planned IMO as it would be one of the biggest transitions our clubs ever had, just sacking him on the spot would be reckless. Oh, and he's the most successful manager we've ever had so its a dumb idea in the first place.

[GP]

Wenger needs to go at the end of the season.

By 'end of the season' I mean 'now'

And by 'go' I mean 'die'

[Fats]

We've been pretty patient considering. It's time for the board and the manager to tell the fans what's happening. What the true goals of the club are. Where we expect to be in a year from now, five years from now, and how we are going to get there. I guess these guys don't feel they owe the fans that much. This is where the real problem lies. They probably believe they are running a business whereas we all know they are running a football club which is a very, very different thing whether they like it or not. Who turns up every week at the Orange HQ with orange scarves chanting "Orange, There's only one Orange!"? Only Letters. If they are supporters of the club too, which they claim they are, then they need to get off their horses and have a chat with the other supporters who actually kick cash in rather than take it out. Is it really too much to ask?

Regardless of excuses, what baffles me that others dont seem to want to see is that Swansea out played us Sunday. Their team has been put together with a fraction of the cost of ours both in transfer fee's and probably wages.

Are we to dissmiss that?

A lot of people in the media still tell us Wenger is "the man" yet laugh at our poor results.

I say its time to man up, ditch the excuses and look at the results. Its not Arsenal standard

[Flavs]

Sling him and get either Lambert or Moyes in. Give em a shot at a big club

[Niall_Quinn]

We don't have the quality on the pitch any more. That's our biggest problem. Some of it brought about by injuries, the rest brought about by lack of investment. While our (ex) rivals have been spending we've been focused on generating profits. Somebody should tell us what the plan is.

[Letters]

Letters did you cut and paste this from another site? Seems to objective for you to write.

No. And I've no idea what you mean. I have my opinions as do we all but I don't think I'm as extreme in my opinions as some and I don't have my little favourites and players I dislike and refuse to see any bad or good in them respectively no matter what they do.

I call it like I see it as I always have.

[Cripps_orig]

Capello will be free next summer.

Brilliant club manager.

Has won the league with every club hes managed and better than Wenger in every way

[Niall_Quinn]

Capello will be free next summer.

Brilliant club manager.

Has won the league with every club hes managed and better than Wenger in every way

And in disgrace after our woeful showing in the Euros. Sign him up.

[Cripps_orig]

PSG manager and former Chelsea boss Carlo Ancelotti admits he was waiting for a job at Tottenham or Arsenal before the Ligue 1 side came calling.

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The Italian joined the French club in December after being sacked by Blues’ owner Roman Abramovich at the end of last season.

However, the 52-year-old concedes he had hoped to replace either Harry Redknapp or Arsene Wenger in north London.

He told Gazzetta dello Sport: "I was keen on a year-long sabbatical, hoping that in the summer a job like Tottenham or Arsenal - a top London bench - would become available, but I was tired of not working.

"Al Thani [PSG chairman] is similar to Abramovich in one thing: he doesn't like it when people talk about him, rather than the team. [AC Milan owner Silvio] Berlusconi was a different thing from them both."

The former AC Milan manager also admitted that he found Abramovich “very cold” and insists football in Ligue 1 allows for much more versatile tactics than the Premier League.

"When Abramovich fired me, he was very cold. He said me good luck and stopped,” he added.

"He knew that I wasn't in agreement with that decision and he preferred to avoid talking about it in detail.

"Ligue 1 is tactically more various than Premier League. In England it isn't difficult, every team plays in pretty much the same way."

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/01/17/2851479/ex-chelsea-boss-carlo-ancelotti-admits-he-had-heart-set-on

Missed opportunity there

[Cripps_orig]

And in disgrace after our woeful showing in the Euros. Sign him up.

Exactly. He'll want to try his hardest to prove he can be a success in this country and not settle for the 4th place trophy every season

[Niall_Quinn]

Exactly. He'll want to try his hardest to prove he can be a success in this country and not settle for the 4th place trophy every season

So he'll push the boat and and do crazy stuff like learning how to speak English?

[Flavs]

So he'll push the boat and and do crazy stuff like learning how to speak English?

He does have a history of such craziness tbf

[Cripps_orig]

So he'll push the boat and and do crazy stuff like learning how to speak English?Wont need to in our dressing room tbh

[Niall_Quinn]

Wont need to in our dressing room tbh

Won't need him in our dressing room tbh

[Fats]

No. And I've no idea what you mean. I have my opinions as do we all but I don't think I'm as extreme in my opinions as some and I don't have my little favourites and players I dislike and refuse to see any bad or good in them respectively no matter what they do.

I call it like I see it as I always have.

Your cup was always half full, mine was always half empty. Seems someone has replaced champagne with piss in your cup.

[LDG]

Your cup was always half full, mine was always half empty. Seems someone has replaced champagne with piss in your cup.

:ninja:

[Letters]

The club has a Stench around the place and needs the doors to be open do the bad smells in the place can be let out. Listening to parlour on Talk sport yesterday and he said some good things, like he believes we don't have money and wenger is covering for the board.

If he is (and I'm not hugely convinced that's so although there may be some truth in it) then he deserves a frikin' medal. Given the amount he's spent we've done remarkably well. The question is why has he spent so little when it's so clear we need strengthening. The idea that he's an idiot who can't see the squad isn't good enough is ludicrous, he's clearly an intelligent man who knows his football. The idea that he's a stubborn fool who feels football has gone mad and he wants to try to compete by doing things the right way is more likely and to an extent I sympathise although a more pragmatic middle ground would be better.

And yes, I'd love to know what's going on inside the club right now. Maybe one day Wenger will write about it and we'll find out. I don't believe he's entirely innocent in all this but neither do I think he is solely to blame and the next manager will have us immediately winning titles again.

[Cripps_orig]

Won't need him in our dressing room tbhHes better than Wenger

Although admittedly that isnt saying much.

How about Owen Coyle?

[Niall_Quinn]

Maybe one day Wenger will write about it and we'll find out.

You can be sure that's going to happen. Maybe one of the reasons why he's still at the club earning £6mill pa.

[Niall_Quinn]

Hes better than Wenger

Although admittedly that isnt saying much.

How about Owen Coyle?

Err, no.

[Fats]

You cant coach desire

Circumstances produce that need and want. Being a little cut throat with players careers can help. Wenger is too much of a father figure.

[Marc Overmars]

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/01/17/2851479/ex-chelsea-boss-carlo-ancelotti-admits-he-had-heart-set-on

Missed opportunity there

Interesting that he mentioned us. Was he just speaking generally or is it rumoured within the managerial circle that Wenger is on his last legs?

[Niall_Quinn]

You cant coach desire

Circumstances produce that need and want. Being a little cut throat with players careers can help. Wenger is too much of a father figure.

This seems to be true. It's also a reason why we've landed some of the youngsters that have gone on to do great things take our money.

[Fats]

This seems to be true. It's also a reason why we've landed some of the youngsters that have gone on to do great things take our money.

Of course their are some exceptions. It comes from a desire to win games. All the while these guys get the stupid amounts of money they have won. Who needs to break your neck giving your all for a club you have no real allegience to. Mercinaries most of them with no responsibility taken.

[Cripps_orig]

Interesting that he mentioned us. Was he just speaking generally or is it rumoured within the managerial circle that Wenger is on his last legs?Tbf he also mentioned Harry and Harry has been brilliant for Spuds

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't know about that. It sounds like wishful thinking to me. He could be covering for the Board, but he's a very stubborn guy and you can see it in the way he manages the team. He insists on the same formation and persists with the same players game after game even when it constantly fails him. For a guy to be so stubborn and rigid when it comes to on field play and tactics...it just suggests to me that he's just a stubborn with transfers. Why would he buy he wants to persist with the same players? It's not as if he's exhausted all options here. Certain players could have been benched or tried in a new position ages ago.

I see where your coming from, but somone at the club has been not been straight with the fans, its easy to say he had money and never spent it truth of the matter is we don't know how much he was given or what his boards goals are.

Wenger is a stubbon mule that much is certain and everytime he gets proved wrong he wants to do it his way which wrong.

I can't belive he does not want to have better players than he has i just can't belive that at all. if he got Nemar for 15mill he get him quickly, its this paying over the odds thing, seems to come from above.

[Cripps_orig]

NOW even Thierry Henry has experienced first-hand just how far Arsenal have fallen.

The Arsenal fan he turned on at Swansea was just voicing some home truths that are becoming increasing currency among Gooners.

The previous Monday we had Henry's dream-like return against Leeds. But, like all fairytales, it had no connection with the reality that has seen Arsenal take just seven points from 18 to trail fourth-place Chelsea by four.

Within six days we were back in the land of the living — and the awful truth Arsenal may not just struggle to finish in the top four but the top six.

Should they fail to qualify for the Champions League, there is little or no chance of them attracting quality players they need to start challenging once again.

If that is the case, Robin van Persie will surely seek employment elsewhere.

What then for Arsenal, never out of the top two from 1997-2005 but facing the prospect of finishing in their lowest position since slipping to 12th in the George Graham bungs' season of 1994-95?

At one time, it was sacrilege to even contemplate life without Arsene Wenger, a manager as breathtakingly innovative on and off the pitch, successful and far-seeing as Herbert Chapman. Not so now.

It was ironic Arsenal's defeat at Swansea should come against an attacking, free-flowing side built in their own image.

If we are to talk successors, why not Brendan Rodgers to bring fresh enthusiasm and ideas to London Colney while continuing Wenger's philosophy?

At 38, he is a good age, with vast contacts and knowledge of the league pyramid and rated hugely by Jose Mourinho who quickly spotted his potential and had him as his youth and reserve manager at Chelsea.

Then there's Paul Lambert, achieving miracles at Norwich. And Southampton's Nigel Adkins, who can build both a defence and an attack. All three are brave enough to play the game as it should be played.

One of Arsenal's problems is Wenger does all the coaching, as if he does not trust anyone else. Which leaves Pat Rice, who wanted to retire to Florida at the end of last season, to put out the cones and set up the video.

And Boro Primorac to remain another faithful retainer who will not tell him news he does not want to hear.

Then there's Steve Bould, someone who should know something about the defensive weaknesses crippling this Arsenal team and yet restricted to the youth and reserve sides.

The whole coaching set-up needs new faces and a shot in the arm which is how Alex Ferguson keeps reinventing himself and his sides at Old Trafford.

While Wenger has stuck with a set-up that cannot move on, Ferguson has progressed from Archie Knox to Brian Kidd to Steve McClaren to Jim Ryan/Mike Phelan and on to Carlos Queiroz (twice), Walter Smith and now Phelan and Dutchman Rene Meulenstein.

Meanwhile, Arsenal go down the same old road — except with players who cannot hold a candle to the great stars who filed through Highbury's marble halls. And Wenger continues to come up with the same embarrassing excuse that match officials are to blame for defeats.

Johan Djourou's dismissal was apparently the reason they conceded two late goals at Fulham even though the home side might have scored FIVE after the break against a defence who have now conceded more goals away from home than any other in the top flight.

At Swansea, the whole game was supposed to have hinged on a suspect penalty that led to the Welsh club's equaliser.

Yet Swansea's winner came just 43 seconds after Arsenal had made it 2-2 — with the Arsenal midfield and defence still celebrating and keeper Wojciech Szczesny caught in no-man's land.

But the most telling difference between the current Arsenal side and any that went before is the criminal manner in which they give the ball away.

In the past, Arsenal's unique ability to retain possession made them the most un-English of all teams. They are also one of the wealthiest clubs in the world and there is money to spend.

Yet Wenger either refuses or does not know how to or does not trust his judgment anymore to make the marquee signings that might have kept players like Ashley Cole, Emmanuel Adebayor, Cesc Fabregas, Samir Nasri and Gael Clichy.

Who can blame them — or Van Persie — for wanting to fulfil their ambition elsewhere when they look at the sort of dross they are being asked to play alongside?

Players like Djourou, Per Mertesacker, Sebastien Squillaci, Andrey Arshavin, Marouane Chamakh and Tomas Rosicky.

Mertesacker, a panic buy, is out of his depth while the others should all have been offloaded in the summer or before.

As for the infuriatingly inconsistent Theo Walcott, his crossing against Fulham was as bad as it ever has been and reduced Wenger to unconcealed rage.

Yes, Arsenal have had their injuries (don't they always) — including a freakish situation where all four full-backs are out at the same time though they are not exactly world-beaters. Week-in, week-out, Arsenal are linked with players and yet how many do they get?

Gary Cahill slips through their fingers, Chris Samba and Leighton Baines remain unsigned. Jose Enrique is at Liverpool, Shay Given to Villa.

Surely even one of Richard Dunne, John Arne Riise or John O'Shea could have come in and done a job. Instead, Wenger is reduced to sending out the kids.

Yes, Bacary Sagna and Jack Wilshere, on whose young shoulders so much optimism is placed, could be back for the Champions League.

While Thomas Vermaelen and Mikel Arteta, Wenger's best recent buys, will hopefully return for Sunday's 8-2 grudge match with Manchester United at the Emirates.

And, yes, Laurent Koscielny is now looking a player.

Then, again, we have been saying things along the same lines for the last six seasons and nothing has changed.

Defeat against one of the more ordinary United teams of the Fergie era, though, could leave even a supremely loyal Arsenal board starting to discuss the succession.


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/sunsport_columnists/4067929/Steven-Howard-column-Nows-the-time-to-think-about-end-of-Wenger.html

Started off well but had a shocker towards the end. Much like an Arsenal season

[Niall_Quinn]

Defeat against one of the more ordinary United teams of the Fergie era, though, could leave even a supremely loyal Arsenal board starting to discuss the succession.

The board is loyal? It wasn't the £500mill then? That's a relief, at least.

[Cripps_orig]

The board is loyal? It wasn't the £500mill then? That's a relief, at least.Loyal and stupid.

Any other board at any other club would have sacked Wenger for less

[LDG]

Lol

[Niall_Quinn]

Loyal and stupid.

Any other board at any other club would have sacked Wenger for less

And the loyal but stupid billionaire Kroenke is doing what?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The board is loyal? It wasn't the £500mill then? That's a relief, at least.

The board out