Wenger must go end of the season

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Surley after today he has to be gone end of the season. The guy seems to have no clue anymore.

[Maestro]

nice and early me sees. fully agree, should have gone a long time ago. he won't leave though until the droves who pack the grove's seats make it impossible for him to manage, the man has no shame or self respect left.

[gunnerrrrr]

NO now is not the time.


He should have gone ages ago

[Cripps_orig]

Write this season off (not the first time ive said that at this stage of the season for the past 6 years), play Ox as much as possible, bed him in and then watch him go next season.

New manager needed though preferably before next weeks game

[Boss]

Should have gone at the end of 2008-09.

Even if we don't qualify for the CL he will be kept so don't get your hopes up.

[Marc Overmars]

Hopefully he resigns at the end of the season after we miss out on 4th.

There is just no defending him anymore.

Utterly ridiculous sub today.

[Elreactor]

I think it´ll only happen if he resigns. It seems they´re all too happy with the business.

[Joker]

Should have gone at the end of last season; definitely has to leave at the end of this.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Rafa's substitution of Torres v. Birmingham was confirmation it was time up for him. Gerrard, like Van Persie, was visibly baffled by it and Rafa could never really recover from it.

The point where everybody knew, despite anything he had done before, that he wouldn't be in charge next season.

I feel it's the same for Wenger. I'd be shocked if it wasn't. And unless there's some miracle, it could be the same for some of your players as well. And not the ones you want gone, either.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Anyone else get pissed off at that stupid grin thing he does especially after a game like today.

[Elreactor]

Anyone else get pissed off at that stupid grin thing he does especially after a game like today.

Grin thing? I don´t know, any footage about that?

What I´m pissed about are those ridiculously huge coats he uses, more like synthetic ponchos, they make him look even more clueless.

[selassie]

I wanted him gone a few seasons ago. He's done, there's no two ways about it.

[Cripps_orig]

Wanted him gone at the end of the 09/10 season after the Wigan debacle.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I wanted him gone a few seasons ago. He's done, there's no two ways about it.

:gp:

after his interview its upset me to see what was a great man losing the plot. The man is nothing but a yes man to the board.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Anyone else get pissed off at that stupid grin thing he does especially after a game like today.

http://i41.tinypic.com/fuxvv4.jpg

[Master Splinter]

Wenger is a man in the wrong field you feel. His skill set and way of thinking is out of sync with the cut-throat nature of football. Especially modern football.

[Tipsychubbs]

Wanted him gone at the end of the 09/10 season after the Wigan debacle.

09/10 season for me as well. I could see that he'd lost the plot and couldn't motivate the players anymore, as well as being tactically naive. It was a long and endless cycle of the same problems repeating themselves over and over again, patience had been lost.

2 years later and its still the same! Says its own story.


Wenger is a man in the wrong field you feel. His skill set and way of thinking is out of sync with the cut-throat nature of football. Especially modern football.

He seems to have morphed more into a Director of Football/chairman/chief executive type, in charge of the finances, youth recruitment and scouting, other off the pitch roles rather than on the pitch. His time as a top level manager is done imo, his tactical naivety on its own shows that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger is a man in the wrong field you feel. His skill set and way of thinking is out of sync with the cut-throat nature of football. Especially modern football.

Yes, he should be running a shoddy hotel and doing Nazi impersonations (which he'd actually be quite good at).

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger is a man in the wrong field you feel. His skill set and way of thinking is out of sync with the cut-throat nature of football. Especially modern football.

That's just it really. The game has moved on but Wenger hasn't.

[Joker]

That's just it really. The game has moved on but Wenger hasn't.

Yep Wenger's stuck in the past, relying on methods that are not working anymore, but he's too stubborn or limited to change his ways.

[Özim]

Should have gone a long time ago, but of course the board have always been 100% behind him whatever he does.

Basically it's the board and Wenger vs the fans, if the fans keep turning up the board will keep sticking two fingers up at them and laughing all the way to the bank.

If you want someone gone make it crystal clear.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Should have gone a long time ago, but of course the board have always been 100% behind him whatever he does.

Basically it's the board and Wenger vs the fans, if the fans keep turning up the board will keep sticking two fingers up at them and laughing all the way to the bank.

If you wanted someone gone make it crystal clear.

Fans need to vote with their feet.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Or fists.

[Grebbo]

The only way he'll leave is in a coffin.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Fans need to vote with their feet.

Maybe the Board could set up a premium rate number for us to register our votes.

[Niall_Quinn]

Maybe the Board could set up a premium rate number for us to register our votes.

Nobody would be dumb enough to fall.....

Okay, what's the number?

[IBK]

Never gone to this point before - but my faith has gone. I'm not talking about faith that our team will turn around, I'm talking about faith that our mananger has what it takes to compete at the level my club should be at. I'm even finding difficult to believe that the achievements we have had under Wenger have not now become eclipsed by the extent of our decline. Its become as difficult - in the face of the continual bullshit spouted by more or less everyone connected with Arsenal, to identify the cause of our shocking decline as it is to understand what the fuck has happened to us. The bottom line is that AFC has now been mismanaged for years. We have been reduced from arguably the best club in the country, to an embarrasing shadow of our former selves in an incredibly short period of time. The truth hurts - and you have to look at the party who is principally responsible. Wenger's decisions have contributed to my club's implosion, and its become impossible not to hate him for that.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Nobody would be dumb enough to fall.....

Okay, what's the number?

Whoa there cowboy. You'll need to purchase your Arsenalvote membership in order to ensure your right to phone the premium rate voteline.

You can purchase Arsenalvote or Arsenalvote Lite.

Arsenalvote Lite entitles you to vote on all questions approved by PHW. Simply ring the Arsenalvote Lite number at the bargain price of £2.99 per vote + £1.99 per minute (average call duration 90 minutes) and your vote won't count.

With the full Arsenalvote Membership, your vote counts, but will be ignored.

[Cripps_orig]

Never gone to this point before - but my faith has gone. I'm not talking about faith that our team will turn around, I'm talking about faith that our mananger has what it takes to compete at the level my club should be at. I'm even finding difficult to believe that the achievements we have had under Wenger have not now become eclipsed by the extent of our decline. Its become as difficult - in the face of the continual bullshit spouted by more or less everyone connected with Arsenal, to identify the cause of our shocking decline as it is to understand what the fuck has happened to us. The bottom line is that AFC has now been mismanaged for years. We have been reduced from arguably the best club in the country, to an embarrasing shadow of our former selves in an incredibly short period of time. The truth hurts - and you have to look at the party who is principally responsible. Wenger's decisions have contributed to my club's implosion, and its become impossible not to hate him for that.Said pretty much the same thing although not as eloquently.

An excellent post there

[Niall_Quinn]

Whoa there cowboy. You'll need to purchase your Arsenalvote membership in order to ensure your right to phone the premium rate voteline.

You can purchase Arsenalvote or Arsenalvote Lite.

Arsenalvote Lite entitles you to vote on all questions approved by PHW. Simply ring the Arsenalvote Lite number at the bargain price of £2.99 per vote + £1.99 per minute (average call duration 90 minutes) and your vote won't count.

With the full Arsenalvote Membership, your vote counts, but will be ignored.

Is there an upgrade available where my opinion will be at least listened to before being ignored?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Is there an upgrade available where my opinion will be at least listened to before being ignored?

You'll need to buy Bonds to be eligible for that.

Send £20 for your free prospectus.

[Niall_Quinn]

Said pretty much the same thing although not as eloquently.

An excellent post there

No, you ran around shouting:


"I'm a cock, I'm a cock, I'm a cock!" - Ach, 208, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012

Not eloquent but just as true.

[Niall_Quinn]

You'll need to buy Bonds to be eligible for that.

Send £20 for your free prospectus.

Nah fuck it, I'll just go and support Liverpool. You get all that stuff for free over there plus they give you a million quid.

[Cripps_orig]

No, you ran around shouting:



"I'm a cock, I'm a cock, I'm a cock!" - Ach, 208, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012

Not eloquent but just as true.

208 and then 1801 years later, im saying the same thing?

Damn and i thought Wenger was bad

[Niall_Quinn]

208 and then 1801 years later, im saying the same thing?

Damn and i thought Wenger was bad

Okay. It was a legitimate mistake! I meant to put a dash rather than a comma after 208.

Me and dates (both types) :pal:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

ok wenger goes and we get another manager in. I ask myself what will really change.

Will we see the wage structure changed? no. will we see £20m spent on a player? no.

we will see half the team leave? yes. you may argue that's a good thing, but take a step back and realise it isn't. rvp will have an excuse to go, so will vermaelen, sczcesny etc... our spine are here for him. they all look up to him.

the problem lies beyond wenger. it's the fucking board.

why are we as fans being taken as mugs? why is NOTHING being reinvested in the squad? it's because the board want to get rid of the debt ASAP then flog their shares and get out. the board are making £14000 a share with all the debt we currently have, imagine what they'd get when the debt is gone.

thats the reason we arent fucking investing.

the people at the top are filling their pockets and will walk as soon as they hit maximum profit levels and the debt is gone.

fans are too blind to see it and simply blame wenger.

[Cripps_orig]

I blame Wenger cos he makes the decisions about what goes on on the pitch.

[Niall_Quinn]

I blame Wenger cos he makes the decisions about what goes on on the pitch.

The club is more than what goes on on the pitch. For sure, Wenger is responsible for that. But he's not responsible for the shit that goes on in the boardroom. We must allow (in fact I fucking insist) that the board has at least some say in the running of the club. Let's just assume, like any other board, they have total say. Kroenke the Clown has left this lot in charge, he's said he's happy to drift on without making changes. It's PHW and the gang in charge. These are the people who dictate how much we have to spend and when we have it. That doesn't mean Wenger isn't involved in how it is spent, he probably is - although I wonder what really went on with the 5 emergency signings in the summer when Wenger was out of the country. There's a massively unhealthy bias in favour of non-football related activities at the moment. Don't you get it? If the board are supporting Wenger in half a decade of folly then they are every bit as guilty as he is, if they have his hands tied they are still guilty of robbing the fans, if Wenger is controlling them (a ridiculous and utterly unrealistic scenario) then the board is guilty of being a bunch of pussies. Whatever is true, it doesn't matter who comes in a fucked up board like this stays on. Either they'll just control the new guy or end up grovelling at his feet again. They are fucking inept, sitting on their arses as the club goes down the plughole. We don't just need better tactics (Wenger's department) we need better players too and we need to be able to hang on to our existing players (the board's department). Leaders should take responsibility or else they shouldn't be leaders at all. If Wenger goes and the board stays then we have removed half the problem and there's no point trying to make out otherwise.

This has gone on for so long now we are absolutely fucked. It's a vicious downward spiral. Players tied into a lunatic wage structure where dross are earning big bucks based on time in, rather than performances returned, can't keep star players, can't attract them, quality always dropping as our rivals improve, rinse and repeat. The only thing that has been keeping us alive has been the Champions League, not just for the money but also the prestige that means we can at least get tier 2 players from time to time. When that goes we're in real trouble. This is what Wenger has been saying (couched in political speak) this week. You saw him today. Frazzled and fucked off. He fucked up but this isn't what he wants. No manager wants steady decline. It's fair enough to blame him for fuck-ups like today, but not the long term fuck up that we've been over the past half decade. There are others who need to share in that blame and it's about time we heard from them.

[-Xs-]

http://www.epltalk.com/media/2011/04/peter-hill-wood.jpg

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.epltalk.com/media/2011/04/peter-hill-wood.jpg

Nice

[Japan Shaking All Over]

The club is more than what goes on on the pitch. For sure, Wenger is responsible for that. But he's not responsible for the shit that goes on in the boardroom. We must allow (in fact I fucking insist) that the board has at least some say in the running of the club. Let's just assume, like any other board, they have total say. Kroenke the Clown has left this lot in charge, he's said he's happy to drift on without making changes. It's PHW and the gang in charge. These are the people who dictate how much we have to spend and when we have it. That doesn't mean Wenger isn't involved in how it is spent, he probably is - although I wonder what really went on with the 5 emergency signings in the summer when Wenger was out of the country. There's a massively unhealthy bias in favour of non-football related activities at the moment. Don't you get it? If the board are supporting Wenger in half a decade of folly then they are every bit as guilty as he is, if they have his hands tied they are still guilty of robbing the fans, if Wenger is controlling them (a ridiculous and utterly unrealistic scenario) then the board is guilty of being a bunch of pussies. Whatever is true, it doesn't matter who comes in a fucked up board like this stays on. Either they'll just control the new guy or end up grovelling at his feet again. They are fucking inept, sitting on their arses as the club goes down the plughole. We don't just need better tactics (Wenger's department) we need better players too and we need to be able to hang on to our existing players (the board's department). Leaders should take responsibility or else they shouldn't be leaders at all. If Wenger goes and the board stays then we have removed half the problem and there's no point trying to make out otherwise.

This has gone on for so long now we are absolutely fucked. It's a vicious downward spiral. Players tied into a lunatic wage structure where dross are earning big bucks based on time in, rather than performances returned, can't keep star players, can't attract them, quality always dropping as our rivals improve, rinse and repeat. The only thing that has been keeping us alive has been the Champions League, not just for the money but also the prestige that means we can at least get tier 2 players from time to time. When that goes we're in real trouble. This is what Wenger has been saying (couched in political speak) this week. You saw him today. Frazzled and fucked off. He fucked up but this isn't what he wants. No manager wants steady decline. It's fair enough to blame him for fuck-ups like today, but not the long term fuck up that we've been over the past half decade. There are others who need to share in that blame and it's about time we heard from them.

I'd say thats the best post so far!
Been saying a similar thing for yonks, that Wenger is the one screwing things up on the pitch and that board are letting, plus the board are fucking things up off the pitch and that Wenger has neither the will nor balls to stand up for anything basically equates to 'a hand in hand' fuck up.

I have not gone down the road of calling for Wengers head but just because I dont lay all the blame on his doorstep doesnt mean I am pissed off by this guys antics. . . .however (and I am yet ro watch the whole game) after yestersday report of the game, I cannot cover the cracks that have begun to emerge with blind optimism. It seems that Wenger substituted the only player who was trying to take the game to the Mancs and that seems unforgivable, after you add it to a list of gaffs.

We will hear thee lines of protecting a prodigy but fuck that, and I am sure as fuck that Oxo didnt want to come off, he must have been buzzing, had helped bring us back into the gamw and wanted more of it. . .and who comes on, a guy who quite clearly knows/feels his time should be up at the club so feels no inclination to prove otherwise. . .who do we keep on, a guy is has little to offer in terms of footballing intelligence and if you continue to defend him Cripps at least say what for. . .at least when I stick up for Gervs its because the guy at least tries to get round his man and run with the ball, end product still has a lot to be desired.

By all accounts the sub was met with equal bemusement by our captain and our one last world class talent, side an inactive JW, this could play very heavily when it comes to contract time and no doubt the boatd will look to cash in. The risk of losing RvP because of AWs fuck ups leaves e with little choice but to agree that Wenger must go (there I said it) but I agree with NQ that our demise is down to a comedu of errors, a board that has no love for the club or game, which causes little to no investment in the playing staff, hence a sub standard squad, led by a buffon whose best years are sadly behind him.

The answer, who knows, get rid of Wenger yes, but bring in who. . .Jose, Pep? they are going to have similar problems, until the board realise they are running a sports team whose value is reflected by the success on the pitch and that there aint no draft system over here where the worst teams get a free pick of the cream of the crop then we are going to be banging our heads for a bit longer.
What a new manager will bring (hopefully) is the power to inspire, motivate and thats where we need to start.
Although I will never stoop to the level of hoping we lose, These kicks in the teeth may be what we need, we are by far the most pompous team in the league and to miss our on what we believe is our right may make some take a reality check. Btw I do think we can still get 4th.

Wenger you have made me cry tears of joy but now I cant help wishing that you would just do the right thing, sorry. . .
anyone reckon Bruce Rioch left a forwarding number, might be an idea to give him a bell?

[KSE Comedy Club]

Wenger has to go, but so does Kronke and most of the board.

Its time for Usmanov to step in, at least he wants to see the club be successful again.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I'd say thats the best post so far!
Been saying a similar thing for yonks, that Wenger is the one screwing things up on the pitch and that board are letting, plus the board are fucking things up off the pitch and that Wenger has neither the will nor balls to stand up for anything basically equates to 'a hand in hand' fuck up.

I have not gone down the road of calling for Wengers head but just because I dont lay all the blame on his doorstep doesnt mean I am pissed off by this guys antics. . . .however (and I am yet ro watch the whole game) after yestersday report of the game, I cannot cover the cracks that have begun to emerge with blind optimism. It seems that Wenger substituted the only player who was trying to take the game to the Mancs and that seems unforgivable, after you add it to a list of gaffs.

We will hear thee lines of protecting a prodigy but fuck that, and I am sure as fuck that Oxo didnt want to come off, he must have been buzzing, had helped bring us back into the gamw and wanted more of it. . .and who comes on, a guy who quite clearly knows/feels his time should be up at the club so feels no inclination to prove otherwise. . .who do we keep on, a guy is has little to offer in terms of footballing intelligence and if you continue to defend him Cripps at least say what for. . .at least when I stick up for Gervs its because the guy at least tries to get round his man and run with the ball, end product still has a lot to be desired.

By all accounts the sub was met with equal bemusement by our captain and our one last world class talent, side an inactive JW, this could play very heavily when it comes to contract time and no doubt the boatd will look to cash in. The risk of losing RvP because of AWs fuck ups leaves e with little choice but to agree that Wenger must go (there I said it) but I agree with NQ that our demise is down to a comedu of errors, a board that has no love for the club or game, which causes little to no investment in the playing staff, hence a sub standard squad, led by a buffon whose best years are sadly behind him.

The answer, who knows, get rid of Wenger yes, but bring in who. . .Jose, Pep? they are going to have similar problems, until the board realise they are running a sports team whose value is reflected by the success on the pitch and that there aint no draft system over here where the worst teams get a free pick of the cream of the crop then we are going to be banging our heads for a bit longer.
What a new manager will bring (hopefully) is the power to inspire, motivate and thats where we need to start.
Although I will never stoop to the level of hoping we lose, These kicks in the teeth may be what we need, we are by far the most pompous team in the league and to miss our on what we believe is our right may make some take a reality check. Btw I do think we can still get 4th.

Wenger you have made me cry tears of joy but now I cant help wishing that you would just do the right thing, sorry. . .
anyone reckon Bruce Rioch left a forwarding number, might be an idea to give him a bell?

:gp:

i agree with your post but the bit in bold the most. Do we trust the board to bring in a better replacement for AW, if he was to go and not someome like Coyle who will be even worse.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I blame Wenger cos he makes the decisions about what goes on on the pitch.

tbf with this sqaud any manager would have problems, it be a miracle to win the big things with them without investment.

[gunsofashburtongrove]

I think he should go not because he is a bad manager, nor do i think he has changed since 2005. Wenger's management style has always been developmental identifying, integrating and retaining young technically skilled players, playing one philosophy over a period and developing a great team. This has 3 parts to it
a. Getting in or developing young players
b. retaining top players so that the best years are given to the club
c. buying a few top players/experienced if and when available for a good deal

Whats changed now is 'a' and 'c' are more expensive owing to competition from other clubs. b is not happening at all a long list of players who could not be retained starting with Edu. I think with progressively he has become more disillusioned and the loss of Cesc and Nasri were the coffin in the nail. I don't think most players who were bought in the summer were his first choices either, don't think we can afford to get his first choices. If he has to he needs to let go a dead weight (we seem to be accumulating them a a fair clip), and the board still wants to continue to create budget organically (either via sales of existing players or via budget allocated which is not very high owing to our commercial revenues and non-football revenue progressively reducing etc). Neither are they willing to revise the pay structure which means that as players mature and start looking at higher salaries they leave.

Is the board at fault? May be in lacking imagination and being old fashioned and boring. Also think a lot of events which were unplanned like the rise of Chelsea and Man city(getting worse with PSG, Malaga etc). I think it s a clash of two ideologies rather thanot f any specific party being responsible and is crying out for a CEO like Dein who was great at consensus building for a long time( but then he got frustrated himself and walked out). I think Ivan is doing a fair job but came in a bit late to salvage the situation.

It is in the best interest of the club to have a manager and board who work with each other and few seasons ago we did see the benefit of it. Don't think that is happening now, cant blame either, and we don't have someone who can be the go between (which could have been the best option). That being the case, its best to get a manager who sticks with the board, though that could be a huge challenge.

[LDG]

Well. The current board are close to being pulled out of the equation, as they were locked into it for 12 months until Stan and his band of Americans arrive properly.

I suspect, some of the current decisions at board level are as a consequence of all of that, and the succession that will follow.

This also has a massive impact on the pitch, because if the owner is saying keep it patched up until we get there, perhaps we're stuck.

As far as the manager goes, he made another stupid error of judgement, and in backing the board and what ever agreement is currently in place, he removes himself further and further from the fans.

It's not so much the football that irks me. Yes, I'd love the club to be succeeding at the very top of the game, but it's not the be all and end all.

What pisses me off, is the shit we're fed week in week out. The bullshit, the soundbites, the spin and the arrogance. The twittering of players, the money-go-round, the lack of loyalty and the laziness.

Arsene is still a very good manager. One who has been more loyal to our club than any other (yes I know he get's paid well for it), and I'm very sad that this great club seems to be imploding around him. Fair do's for being the one who will take all the stick on behalf of the club (yes he get's paid hansomly for it).

But he really doesn't help himself sometimes.

[gunsofashburtongrove]

Well. The current board are close to being pulled out of the equation, as they were locked into it for 12 months until Stan and his band of Americans arrive properly.

I suspect, some of the current decisions at board level are as a consequence of all of that, and the succession that will follow.

This also has a massive impact on the pitch, because if the owner is saying keep it patched up until we get there, perhaps we're stuck.

As far as the manager goes, he made another stupid error of judgement, and in backing the board and what ever agreement is currently in place, he removes himself further and further from the fans.

It's not so much the football that irks me. Yes, I'd love the club to be succeeding at the very top of the game, but it's not the be all and end all.

What pisses me off, is the shit we're fed week in week out. The bullshit, the soundbites, the spin and the arrogance. The twittering of players, the money-go-round, the lack of loyalty and the laziness.

Arsene is still a very good manager. One who has been more loyal to our club than any other (yes I know he get's paid well for it), and I'm very sad that this great club seems to be imploding around him. Fair do's for being the one who will take all the stick on behalf of the club (yes he get's paid hansomly for it).

But he really doesn't help himself sometimes.

Did not consider that sounds a very valid point.
The fan reactions including ours are a result of frustration that built over a period of time. Don't think fans would have reacted in the same fashion if things were going well. To blame everything on Wenger is unfair. In the end the whole stadium project might turn out to be successfull at the expense of one of the best managers, who was central to the project itself.

[Boss]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AQ7G7SixcC4/S86u6uuz1uI/AAAAAAAABvc/UZlR2TFG7Js/s1600/awmh.jpg

[Olivier's xmas twist]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AQ7G7SixcC4/S86u6uuz1uI/AAAAAAAABvc/UZlR2TFG7Js/s1600/awmh.jpg

:haha:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Well. The current board are close to being pulled out of the equation, as they were locked into it for 12 months until Stan and his band of Americans arrive properly.

I suspect, some of the current decisions at board level are as a consequence of all of that, and the succession that will follow.

This also has a massive impact on the pitch, because if the owner is saying keep it patched up until we get there, perhaps we're stuck.

As far as the manager goes, he made another stupid error of judgement, and in backing the board and what ever agreement is currently in place, he removes himself further and further from the fans.

It's not so much the football that irks me. Yes, I'd love the club to be succeeding at the very top of the game, but it's not the be all and end all.

What pisses me off, is the shit we're fed week in week out. The bullshit, the soundbites, the spin and the arrogance. The twittering of players, the money-go-round, the lack of loyalty and the laziness.

Arsene is still a very good manager. One who has been more loyal to our club than any other (yes I know he get's paid well for it), and I'm very sad that this great club seems to be imploding around him. Fair do's for being the one who will take all the stick on behalf of the club (yes he get's paid hansomly for it).

But he really doesn't help himself sometimes.

Ahh yes the spin, that is something that can eat away at fans because we have had to suffer a lot of that too!

As we most things going wrong at the moment, I dont solely blame Wenger for that either because for every yarn he spins us he has probably had load shoved down his throat too. . .the wbole vicious cycle seems such a shame and such a fucking waste!

[IBK]

Hmm - manager vs board?

Personally, I think that this is the wrong way to debate the issue. Clearly, both are to blame for what has happened to our club, and I don't think it is any benefit to try to apportion levels of blame.

As this is a thread about our manager, I'll refrain from bringing the board into it, and can debate the shocking level of complacency/passivity, lack of commercial nous and, frankly, incompetence that we have seen from AFC at that level since DD left somewhere else.

But Wenger needs to bear his portion of the blame. Even the staunchest Wengerite has to accept that he enjoys, and has enjoyed, a level of control and influence at our club that is almost unprecedented. So for me it just doesn't make sense to portray Wenger as the 'victim' of a self-interested and incompetent board. Even if he were being exploited by the board, at the very least he would be complicit in this, by being prepared to draw a massive salary while he watched the club decline around him, but I don't think he is. For one - why would someone with the reputation and past achievements that Wenger has put up with this, particularly given that he is supposed to be a man of principle? He would walk.

So in IMO, Wenger has to answer for the gradual decline of our club in a number of ways.

First and foremost for appearing to surrender the club's principles in the face of the new money coming into the game. People say that Wenger's will to win burns as brightly as ever. I'm not convinced by that at all. There's the continual talk of us not being able to compete financially; the financial doping etc, which while it may be true is pretty defeatist in my book. I don't see Brendan Rogers moaning about how he can't compete on a relative pittance. It is very, very difficult to escape the conclusion that the manager is resigned to being no more than a top 4 team, and some of his managerial decisions certainly tally with that.

What managerial decisions? Well these are the second aread of fault, IMO. Redknapp said the other day that managers basically need to get one thing right, and that is the ability to sign the right players - and lets face it, for all Wenger's residual skill in this department, Twitchy has wiped the floor with him recently in both the calibre of players he has assembled, and the deals he has done. Wenger has made a right mess of at least 50% of his signings/attempted signings in recent years - whether in the players themselves, or the manner in which he has gone about trying to sign them. But to make matters worse, our manager has played fast and loose with the resources we do have - paying way over the odds in wages for players who have proved nothing, and in some cases who are worth only a fraction of what they are paid. So we are so over-committed in wages that we have to go bargain basement hunting when it comes to transfers. Other reasons to believe that winning the league is no longer a priority are firstly, the risks he takes in committing big sums to mere potential, and secondly his utter refusal to cut his losses when the gamble has clearly not payed off. This hurts the performance of our team. Then there are the gambles he takes on the fitness of our players - not signing another striker this season, not signing a defender last season....these are not the actions of someone seriously focussed on winning things. They are the actions of a man determined only to prove himself right - and misguided ones at that.

And this is the final area where Wenger must shoulder some culpability. The increasing myopia; the refusal to seek the advice of others; the lack of objectivity, and the continued belief that he knows best when certain truths are apparent for all to see. Nowhere have we seen this more than in his obvious belief that Fabregas and Nasri could be persuaded to stay - to the extent that nothing was done to cover the possiblity that they would not. And watch it happen with RVP at the end of this season. Stubbornness has always been a Wenger trait. Its tolerated when things are going well. When things aren't going well it should be recognised for the liability that it is. It happend to Brian Clough; it happened to Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair. Its happening to our manager - and I think that Gooners can now see that the decline in both our club and our manager is long term, not an aberration.

[Ashburton2006]

Should have gone at the end of 2008-09.Even if we don't qualify for the CL he will be kept so don't get your hopes up.Ok, I said this years ago! Why am I called a spud??

[Niall_Quinn]

Ok, I said this years ago! Why am I called a spud??

Spud!

[GP]

Ok, I said this years ago! Why am I called a spud??

Cos you look like a fucking potato

[Niall_Quinn]

It happend to Brian Clough; it happened to Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair. Its happening to our manager

Not really the same thing for each of these individuals though. Cloughie was a pisshead and drunks are always going to go downhill in the end. Thatcher and Blair began as idealists (much like Wenger) but over time were consumed by the establishment they sought (pretended) to change. Wenger is still an idealist after all this time. He's not as weak as the others you mention. Neither is he a pisshead, a fucking Tory cunt or a raving homicidal maniac.

In truth, you can't just separate Wenger from the board and analyse him in isolation. Both are one and the same in terms of the end result, ultimately whether on the pitch or off it. The both believe football should be run their way. That's not a critical problem, but it becomes one when they ignore the fact football is not run their way but persist with their incompatible methods anyway. Then they take the moral high ground after the inevitable failures. Whether Wenger and the board are fucking the club for the same or different reasons I don't know. All I know is they are fucking the club. Wenger does it unintentionally as a by-product of his stubbornness and, to a degree, arrogance - I think. The board does it because it is comprised of horrendously greedy cunts who should be murdered and then disposed of in an acid bath.

[Ashburton2006]

Cos you look like a fucking potato Hmmm! We have a fucking comedian on the site!

[Niall_Quinn]

Hmmm! We have a fucking comedian on the site!

Spud!

[Coney]

Only a true spud would deny being a spud.

[Elreactor]

Only a true spud would deny being a spud.

Do spuds deny they´re spuds? Awful spuds.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Ok, I said this years ago! Why am I called a spud??

Think about it.

[IBK]

Not really the same thing for each of these individuals though. Cloughie was a pisshead and drunks are always going to go downhill in the end. Thatcher and Blair began as idealists (much like Wenger) but over time were consumed by the establishment they sought (pretended) to change. Wenger is still an idealist after all this time. He's not as weak as the others you mention. Neither is he a pisshead, a fucking Tory cunt or a raving homicidal maniac.

In truth, you can't just separate Wenger from the board and analyse him in isolation. Both are one and the same in terms of the end result, ultimately whether on the pitch or off it. The both believe football should be run their way. That's not a critical problem, but it becomes one when they ignore the fact football is not run their way but persist with their incompatible methods anyway. Then they take the moral high ground after the inevitable failures. Whether Wenger and the board are fucking the club for the same or different reasons I don't know. All I know is they are fucking the club. Wenger does it unintentionally as a by-product of his stubbornness and, to a degree, arrogance - I think. The board does it because it is comprised of horrendously greedy cunts who should be murdered and then disposed of in an acid bath.

Yes - I'll buy that. Both parties clearly have their part to play, and from where I'm sitting Wenger has no agenda, whereas the board is more likely to.

But the point I was making about Cloughie; Blair and Thatcher is that they, and Wenger, all have one thing in common. They started off great, and ultimately lost direction because they lost perspective and objectivity. Clough ended up being relegated; Blair took us to war in Iraq and Thather was undone by the poll tax.

[GP]

Blair :bow:

[Kano]

The greatest irony, and there were plenty of them around at Arsenal on Sunday, was that the outcry was triggered by a change. Arsène Wenger's decision to substitute a talented youngster with potential for an experienced and expensive international was also, on at least one level, pretty ironic, although no one saw it that way for a simple reason: Andrey Arshavin, the Russia captain, has become a total liability. Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, by contrast, had impressed on his full Premier League debut against Manchester United.

Wenger promoted contrariness afterwards. The jeering of the substitution, he suggested, vindicated his decision to start Oxlade-Chamberlain ahead of Arshavin. Arsenal are living in topsy-turvy times, where even what may appear sensible invites condemnation. The club's financial results are due out by the end of next month and they will be impressively strong. The directors are waiting for a bad day to bury the good news.

Arsenal's supporters are back in mutiny mode and it was a complication for Wenger that Robin van Persie seemed to be on board with them. The captain also expressed his unhappiness at the substitution, which presaged Danny Welbeck's winning goal for United (Arshavin, following Sod's law, had to be at fault) and it did not need the pundit Gary Neville to pronounce that "if the captain's reacting like that, you've got problems".

Wenger is bogged down in them. He should be able to shrug off Van Persie's heat-of-the-moment exasperation and the striker will not base his decision on whether to extend his Arsenal contract in the summer on one substitution that went painfully wrong. "The manager and I are fine and my relationship with the club is good," Van Persie told the Sun. "There is no problem, there is no conflict, there is no controversy."

But the bigger picture is not encouraging the Dutchman or the fans. The United defeat was Arsenal's third in succession and eighth of the Premier League season. They sit five points off the Champions League pace and if the half-full-glass drinkers note that fourth-placed Chelsea still have to visit the Emirates, the half-empty brigade fear that the fixture on 21 April will press Wenger's team out of contention. And that is if they were to remain in it. The apocalyptic scenario is that no Champions League qualification equals no Van Persie next season. Wenger admitted last Friday that no Champions League football equalled a disaster in sporting terms.

Sunday felt like a tipping point for Wenger because the dissent was so vociferous and widespread. Even the supporters who did not chant "You don't know what you're doing" at him surely asked themselves the question. A body that measures in the thousands has lost its faith in the man who famously "knows", and that goes for his substitutions to his decisions in the transfer market.

Gooner soul-searching is nothing new. There was an outbreak of it in the desperate weeks of the early season and there is the sense now that the improved performances and results from the end of September to the turn of the year merely papered over the cracks and the inherent fragility of the squad.

Expectation levels have already been scaled down, just as Wenger's summer deadline-day splurge on a clutch of steady heads marked a change to his approach. The limit of Arsenal's ambitions for the season has long been to finish fourth but the doubters argue the club are sprinting to stand still, even if a Champions League play-off is infinitely preferable to falling off the precipice in fifth.

The fans want, somehow, to get back to the old level, when the team were regular title contenders. Deep down, they wonder whether the squad is good enough, which undermines Wenger's belief that things will be OK when his many injured and unavailable players return. And in order to drive the upturn, there is the growing feeling that fundamental change is required.

The plain fact is, though, that it will not come about easily as it is not only Wenger but the chief executive, Ivan Gazidis, and the majority shareholder, Stan Kroenke, who are wedded to the club's economic model, which is against high-risk spend-to-accumulate offensives.

Those who feel that Wenger should jump or be pushed from his post ought to be careful what they wish for. Kroenke and Gazidis would seek a replacement with similar philosophies and to work in a similar framework, and not only because of the incoming financial fair play regulations. In Wenger, they may already have the best.

A radical view involves the removal of Kroenke and Gazidis, and a fresh approach entirely, perhaps under the leadership of Alisher Usmanov, who owns a little under 30% of the club's shares and has positioned himself against the concept of the self-sustaining business model. It would be fiendishly difficult to see this happening.

Gazidis has identified a huge discrepancy between the worldwide reach of the Arsenal brand and the revenue that it generates. He believes that bringing the latter up to speed – the club have sophisticated strategies in place to do so – is the surest way forward. It is simply not possible to play the sheikhs and the oligarchs at their own game.

And so Wenger and Arsenal will continue to dip their shoulder against emotional supporters, unsatisfactory short-term fixes and the prospect of an excruciating slide. As another crisis bites, there are no clear solutions. The ever-decreasing circles are dizzying.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/jan/23/arsene-wenger-arsenal-mutiny-fans

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Those who feel that Wenger should jump or be pushed from his post ought to be careful what they wish for. Kroenke and Gazidis would seek a replacement with similar philosophies and to work in a similar framework, and not only because of the incoming financial fair play regulations. In Wenger, they may already have the best.


:gp: This is the thing even if wenger was to go wit this board they get someone even worse thats the problem.

[LDG]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/jan/23/arsene-wenger-arsenal-mutiny-fans

Good article that.

I suppose the biggest, most frustrating and underlying reason for disatisfaction (even if pig-headed internet warriors think otherwise), is that NOBODY BLOODY WELL KNOWS FOR SURE WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON.

And we'll never know either.

I'm resigned to hoping that there is some wonder plan behind it all...and we'll rise like a phoenix from the flames.

Come on The Arsenal.

[Niall_Quinn]

Good article that.

I suppose the biggest, most frustrating and underlying reason for disatisfaction (even if pig-headed internet warriors think otherwise), is that NOBODY BLOODY WELL KNOWS FOR SURE WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON.

And we'll never know either.

I'm resigned to hoping that there is some wonder plan behind it all...and we'll rise like a phoenix from the flames.

Come on The Arsenal.

Arsene's book will be an interesting read, when he's at liberty to write it.

[Kano]

Good article that.

I suppose the biggest, most frustrating and underlying reason for disatisfaction (even if pig-headed internet warriors think otherwise), is that NOBODY BLOODY WELL KNOWS FOR SURE WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON.

And we'll never know either.

I'm resigned to hoping that there is some wonder plan behind it all...and we'll rise like a phoenix from the flames.

Come on The Arsenal.

thing is, I can see why the board are staying so silent. in my opinion it would be absolute lunacy if the shareholders were not thinking of capitalising on the growth potential our club obviously has - the idea of asset stripping makes little sense when there is so much more to be made long term and asset stripping usually occurs when a company is heading towards the junkyard.

the analysis of the accounts have been made by various people indicating there is money to spend yet we seem reluctant to do so and i am of the believe that it is being pushed somewhere else for use. we see it in cold black and white but that does not take into account any internal plans they have for this money, which at the moment clearly isn't being thrown at team investment.

we are told that there is money to spend yet we don't see it so it is all about image. why would they tell everyone the have no money to spend, ruin the perception of the club? so the fans should be told the truth right? well like any large corporate company, they wouldn't reveal inner secrets to their customers full in the believe that they will always buy what they sell and it applies even more to the football world.

as the article says, we are due for more of the same if wenger leaves this summer so i would really like to see who could take on the role and perform better under this circumstances.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Arsene's book will be an interesting read, when he's at liberty to write it.Got a feeling that the non-disclosure agreement could run into millions, and as a consequence we'll probably never know.

At the very least, not until any persons incriminated are safely dead.

[Niall_Quinn]

Got a feeling that the non-disclosure agreement could run into millions, and as a consequence we'll probably never know.

At the very least, not until any persons incriminated are safely dead.

By safely dead you meant happily dead I suppose?

[Niall_Quinn]

thing is, I can see why the board are staying so silent. in my opinion it would be absolute lunacy if the shareholders were not thinking of capitalising on the growth potential our club obviously has - the idea of asset stripping makes little sense when there is so much more to be made long term and asset stripping usually occurs when a company is heading towards the junkyard.

How about:

1. Use the stadium move to built the long term asset value of the club, inflate the share price but most importantly act as a cover for the shareholders' exit strategies.

2. Shareholders get out with a close on 100% return.

3. Kroenke and his bean counters identify big profits to be made from the Arsenal (and PL) brand overseas based on under-performance on the commercial side. Figures a 5 years stint pouring everything into marketing while relying on Wenger to keep the team as competitive as possible for the smallest amount of investment possible.

4. Disaster at Man Utd and Blackburn, plan jeopardised, kick some of the transfer profits back in order to maintain the minimum. 4th place will do, it gives the global exposure that helps with the marketing even though we have no chance of winning it. In come the journeymen, they'll do. Now if only they don't get injured.

5. Kroenke boosts the share value up to the levels he has predicted by maximising the marketing potential. They've kept their promise, we're now a big club globally - in terms of shirt sales and TV deals. Shame about what's going on on the pitch but you can't have everything and after all, we're still in the CL by some miracle.

6. Kroenke picks up the phone to Usmanov. You can have it but it will cost you. Reckon he could clear maybe £200-£300mill more than he's paid for the thing if the marketing gang get it right. Easy money. Everyone with a financial interest wins.

Provided we can hang on around the top there's no need to ever compete, no need to actually win anything. Park, the African players, the kids, they may not be great for winning trophies but they can all be turned into revenue streams. I guess the idea is that if we are big financially then eventually we'll be able to compete in the transfer markets and do it under the terms of financial fair play because we'll be using football related revenue rather than bungs from rich blokes. It sort of even makes sense, the only downside being that as a fan just don't expect to see much football in the next 5-6 years.

[Fist of Lehmann]

By safely dead you meant happily dead I suppose?I mean in the 'Dead men don't litigate' sense.

If you saw fit to expedite the autobiography however...well I don't see the harm.

[KSE Comedy Club]

How about:

1. Use the stadium move to built the long term asset value of the club, inflate the share price but most importantly act as a cover for the shareholders' exit strategies.

2. Shareholders get out with a close on 100% return.

3. Kroenke and his bean counters identify big profits to be made from the Arsenal (and PL) brand overseas based on under-performance on the commercial side. Figures a 5 years stint pouring everything into marketing while relying on Wenger to keep the team as competitive as possible for the smallest amount of investment possible.

4. Disaster at Man Utd and Blackburn, plan jeopardised, kick some of the transfer profits back in order to maintain the minimum. 4th place will do, it gives the global exposure that helps with the marketing even though we have no chance of winning it. In come the journeymen, they'll do. Now if only they don't get injured.

5. Kroenke boosts the share value up to the levels he has predicted by maximising the marketing potential. They've kept their promise, we're now a big club globally - in terms of shirt sales and TV deals. Shame about what's going on on the pitch but you can't have everything and after all, we're still in the CL by some miracle.

6. Kroenke picks up the phone to Usmanov. You can have it but it will cost you. Reckon he could clear maybe £200-£300mill more than he's paid for the thing if the marketing gang get it right. Easy money. Everyone with a financial interest wins.

Provided we can hang on around the top there's no need to ever compete, no need to actually win anything. Park, the African players, the kids, they may not be great for winning trophies but they can all be turned into revenue streams. I guess the idea is that if we are big financially then eventually we'll be able to compete in the transfer markets and do it under the terms of financial fair play because we'll be using football related revenue rather than bungs from rich blokes. It sort of even makes sense, the only downside being that as a fan just don't expect to see much football in the next 5-6 years.

Unfortunately, this seems to be the most likely scenario.

The only good bit being when Usmanov takes over.

What Kronke and the current board dont seem to get their heads around is that the club would be worth a lot more, locally and globally, if we were actually winning trophoes and had top quality players.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

PHW is as good as gone in the next 18 months or so.

why do you think there's hardly been any fucking investment? he's getting £14000 a share with all the current debt, imagine what he could get once debt is further reduced/all gone.

he's trying to milk every penny out of us so he can maximise his ROI.

kroenke aint gonna do anything whilst we keep making profit either, all his other investments are making profit and he is solely in it for that.

it'll be interesting to see what happens when the lock-in agreement on the board expires in summer.

[Master Splinter]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/football/power-football-sack-arsenal-boss-wenger-says-rwandan-president-20120125-1qgwe.html

:haha:

[fakeyank]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/football/power-football-sack-arsenal-boss-wenger-says-rwandan-president-20120125-1qgwe.html

:haha:

Even a black man can see his time is up.. it really is high time AW is sacked!

[Kano]

Even a black man can see his time is up.. it really is high time AW is sacked!

what does his colour have to do with anything? quite an 'odd' thing to say.

[Letters]

Even a black man can see his time is up.. it really is high time AW is sacked!

The board are clearly implicit in all this. If they weren't they'd have sacked him years ago. They're clearly happy with what he's doing and that he's kept us top four without spending that much. If they sack him what makes you think the next manager will suddenly be allowed to spend the money he needs to reverse the decline? There are good reasons for sacking Wenger but don't think that when someone new comes in things will inevitably get better. And please don't say they can't get any worse, as frustrating as things are right now we're 5th, still in the FA Cup and won our CL group. As far as we've declined from the invincibles there's far further we could fall.

[Boss]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/football/power-football-sack-arsenal-boss-wenger-says-rwandan-president-20120125-1qgwe.html

:haha:

Rwanda :bow: :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Spanish giants Real Madrid have targeted under-fire Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger to replace Jose Mourinho, who may leave the Bernabeu in the summer.
Full story: Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2091343/Arsene-Wenger-wanted-Real-Madrid-EXCLUSIVE.html)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2091343/Arsene-Wenger-wanted-Real-Madrid-EXCLUSIVE.html

[bignev]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2091343/Arsene-Wenger-wanted-Real-Madrid-EXCLUSIVE.html

Swap deal?

[GP]

Swap deal?

I fucking hope not.

[Letters]

I fucking hope not.

:gp:

[GP]

Besides, why would a chequebook manager go to a club that has no chequebook?

[Syn]

"Wenger turned down very big offer from Qatari owners to join PSG, says The Specialists show on Canal Plus. #afc #psg"

"Wenger was first choice to replace Kombouaré at PSG, not Ancelotti, according to The Specialists show on Canal Plus. #afc #psg"

They were having a massive discussion on him on Canal Plus, I think. Could be rubbish. Might not be. Sounds plausible. Who cares. Why am I posting this tbh. FML.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Wenger is done. There doesnt need to be any more reasoning for why people want him gone.

Id rather see someone else come in and fail if it meant that at least they tried to do something different.

Im sick and fucking tired of watching the same season happen like groundhog day for the past 6, nearly 7 years.

Fuck that.

[Xhaka Can’t]

We may not get any better with a new manager, but at least it would be something different.

Right now I have no hope that things will either change or improve under Wenger. It is same old same old all the time. I am completely devoid of any optimism whatsoever.

[Cripps_orig]

Swap deal?This

Would be great

[Coney]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/football/power-football-sack-arsenal-boss-wenger-says-rwandan-president-20120125-1qgwe.html

:haha:

At least we still have Fidel. We'd have still had Che if the CIA hadn't had him shot. :(

[Kano]

"Wenger turned down very big offer from Qatari owners to join PSG, says The Specialists show on Canal Plus. #afc #psg"

"Wenger was first choice to replace Kombouaré at PSG, not Ancelotti, according to The Specialists show on Canal Plus. #afc #psg"

They were having a massive discussion on him on Canal Plus, I think. Could be rubbish. Might not be. Sounds plausible. Who cares. Why am I posting this tbh. FML.

phillipe auclair mentioned this a few months ago, that talks were happening and he was in place to take over in a year or two. obviously things have changed.

absolutely no way he will be heading off to the madrid madhouse.

[Coney]

We may not get any better with a new manager, but at least it would be something different.

Right now I have no hope that things will either change or improve under Wenger. It is same old same old all the time. I am completely devoid of any optimism whatsoever.

I'm coming round to that thinking. Wenger is still a top manager and would be a success at other clubs. However, I think that the situation we have is now tired and will not be revitalised until the manager is replaced. What should have happened (and was promised) this summer does not seem to taking place - the fact we have not gone out at the start of this window to buy the striker/goalscorer we desparately need says it all, I think. There was a case for waiting during August to see how the Nasri/Cesc thing would pan out, but the results to the end of December made it clear that we need to get a finisher to assist RvP with the workload. That being the case, given we supposedly have the money, we should have bought a significant finisher in the first week and had that done and dusted.

I don't mind so much about the fullback situation - that we have 4 injured at once is unlucky and once they recover, we should be broadly OK. The lack of firepower up front which has been the case for years is what gets me. Bendtner, Chamakh and Walcott continue(d) to fail year after year but nothing is done to sling them out and try someone else. We need strikers with a natural confidence and that is not something you can do in training. I am coming to the conclusion that in terms of regular goalscoring, you've either got it or you haven't. And we need to buy a player - well, two would be better - who have got it. And the attacking midfielders are the same situation. Arshavin, Rosicy might have had it but they certainly show no sign of it now, so time to get rid and replace.

If people like 'arry can get players that are confident in front of goal, what the hell are we doing?

[Alpha]

Wenger must go ? hmmmmm.....maybe yes..maybe no..simple to say it after a disappointing result which has at least revealed a new jewel . But the question is : Who will replace him and keep Arsenal at the same level ? I remember when Man U thrashed Arsenal 6-1 there were same feeling and people called for Wenger's head . A certain Thierry Henry played in that game and ended up getting the whole Man U team scared for life afterward. Alex Ox Chamberlain will surely be the next " Thierry Henry" and not Walcott . He will scare defenders . But he needs Wenger to achieve that . Wenger must go ? You may say yes and its your right but I say NO and its my right .

[Coney]

Wenger must go ? hmmmmm.....maybe yes..maybe no..simple to say it after a disappointing result which has at least revealed a new jewel . But the question is : Who will replace him and keep Arsenal at the same level ? I remember when Man U thrashed Arsenal 6-1 there were same feeling and people called for Wenger's head . A certain Thierry Henry played in that game and ended up getting the whole Man U team scared for life afterward. Alex Ox Chamberlain will surely be the next " Thierry Henry" and not Walcott . He will scare defenders . But he needs Wenger to achieve that . Wenger must go ? You may say yes and its your right but I say NO and its my right .

I would have gone with that way of thinking - did go along with that for the last few years - in the belief that in time we would recover the situation. However, the master plan that Wenger seemed to have has not acheived the result. I was OK going along with it - the idea of building a new team with new young talent, forming something that could last for several years at the top was a nice idea. However, the last couple of years have shown it is just not going to work. There was no backbone in the team when things went wrong, some players were being given far too long and far too many chances to see if they would finally perform.

When we got to the end of the last season and Wenger said we would have to change the approach then I was still OK with that. However, the words have not been matched by actions. I don't say this because of the 8-2 at manu, or even losing to manu at home as well. The problem is that we are still failing in the same area. Not losing to other top teams sometimes - all the top teams do that. What has caused us to fall short year after year is the failure to show consistent results against the 'lesser' teams. The odd glitch is not important - all top sides throw an occasionaly wobbler and lose to someone that on paper they should have trashed. However, we are failing to do this time and again and this has been going on for years. And the common obvious factor to me is failing to finish. We do fancy footwork and piss around with the ball with great impressive displays sometimes, but when it comes to the crunch, i.e. putting the ball in the net, we are just not doing it. And sadly, the league is based on points and that means scoring more goals than the other team.

Which is what I said in the previous post. Wenger seems to be doing nothing about this situation and shows no sign of doing it. For that reason, I'm out.

[Fats]

Regarding the possible managerial swap between Wenger and Maureen. Out of the 2 managers who do you think would be more succesful in a seasons time if they did swap?

[Kano]

wenger. as maureen wouldn't have any money to spend.

[Coney]

Regarding the possible managerial swap between Wenger and Maureen. Out of the 2 managers who do you think would be more succesful in a seasons time if they did swap?

It sickens me to say this, but I think Moronio would be more brutal with who stays/plays and who goes. He would clean out any negative vibes in the dressing room. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I'm coming round to that thinking. Wenger is still a top manager and would be a success at other clubs. However, I think that the situation we have is now tired and will not be revitalised until the manager is replaced. What should have happened (and was promised) this summer does not seem to taking place - the fact we have not gone out at the start of this window to buy the striker/goalscorer we desparately need says it all, I think. There was a case for waiting during August to see how the Nasri/Cesc thing would pan out, but the results to the end of December made it clear that we need to get a finisher to assist RvP with the workload. That being the case, given we supposedly have the money, we should have bought a significant finisher in the first week and had that done and dusted.

I don't mind so much about the fullback situation - that we have 4 injured at once is unlucky and once they recover, we should be broadly OK. The lack of firepower up front which has been the case for years is what gets me. Bendtner, Chamakh and Walcott continue(d) to fail year after year but nothing is done to sling them out and try someone else. We need strikers with a natural confidence and that is not something you can do in training. I am coming to the conclusion that in terms of regular goalscoring, you've either got it or you haven't. And we need to buy a player - well, two would be better - who have got it. And the attacking midfielders are the same situation. Arshavin, Rosicy might have had it but they certainly show no sign of it now, so time to get rid and replace.

If people like 'arry can get players that are confident in front of goal, what the hell are we doing?

This, Wenger deffo needs a change because the situation he is not in right now is not healthy. Im not saying he be a sucess in madrid but i think it wouldbe good for him to go there and play his way of footie too.

And with madrid you know how their board work, so AW would have to do well or he'd be out. right now at Arsenal he is stale and we need freshness not a man with ideas that don't work anymoreor have not for years.

like GB said we may not get any better with someone new but its worth a try tbh and if were in the Europa i don't see the harm tbh.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Regarding the possible managerial swap between Wenger and Maureen. Out of the 2 managers who do you think would be more succesful in a seasons time if they did swap?

Wenger he already has a good team there would not need to do much tweeking where as JM would need to do alot and imo evenif he came it be a while before we won anything under him while this board are still in place.

[Fats]

Exactly. I know people would be against Maureen but he would sort this club out. He wouldnt stand for the crap that we have had to put up with.

Time has come for a huge clear out of average players. The team would be more organized and play better football.

From a fans point of view I cannot see any problems with his appointment.


The board however never accept him and would never go for him as boss we know that for sure.

[Fats]

Wenger he already has a good team there would not need to do much tweeking where as JM would need to do alot and imo evenif he came it be a while before we won anything under him while this board are still in place.

Wenger would fail in madrid and be sacked within a season

[Coney]

Wenger would fail in madrid and be sacked within a season

Whether true or not, for us, that would be irrelevant.

[Marc Overmars]

In terms of man management at least, Mourinho is miles better than Wenger and could probably squeeze more from the team when it's time to deliver.

Of course he has been backed financially at every club he's been at, something he wouldn't get on the same level here.

[Alpha]

I would have gone with that way of thinking - did go along with that for the last few years - in the belief that in time we would recover the situation. However, the master plan that Wenger seemed to have has not acheived the result. I was OK going along with it - the idea of building a new team with new young talent, forming something that could last for several years at the top was a nice idea. However, the last couple of years have shown it is just not going to work. There was no backbone in the team when things went wrong, some players were being given far too long and far too many chances to see if they would finally perform.

When we got to the end of the last season and Wenger said we would have to change the approach then I was still OK with that. However, the words have not been matched by actions. I don't say this because of the 8-2 at manu, or even losing to manu at home as well. The problem is that we are still failing in the same area. Not losing to other top teams sometimes - all the top teams do that. What has caused us to fall short year after year is the failure to show consistent results against the 'lesser' teams. The odd glitch is not important - all top sides throw an occasionaly wobbler and lose to someone that on paper they should have trashed. However, we are failing to do this time and again and this has been going on for years. And the common obvious factor to me is failing to finish. We do fancy footwork and piss around with the ball with great impressive displays sometimes, but when it comes to the crunch, i.e. putting the ball in the net, we are just not doing it. And sadly, the league is based on points and that means scoring more goals than the other team.

Which is what I said in the previous post. Wenger seems to be doing nothing about this situation and shows no sign of doing it. For that reason, I'm out.


You may be right at some extent . Wenger will not be at Arsenal for ever . People however great they are , they come and go . Wenger will certainly have a time to call it a day . But we must also think of what would happen after Wenger . If we are not sure of getting anything better than we have why not keep the same situation for a while .Booing Wenger was good as waking call . To send a message to the whole Board that fans are finally fed up with what is going on at the club . That clear message will bring changes . Everywhere you go leaders always think the mass are blind and fool .But when the mass wakes up and tell the leaders enough is enough that's where the changes start . I don't think wenger will accept getting booed every day . He will either go or change his tactics to improve . Will he prefer to go ? I doubt it because he will never find a team to be as comfortable as at Arsenal . But let's see what happen next . Wenger still has the support of the board . They are not ready to part with him as he takes all the blame for the them .

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wenger would fail in madrid and be sacked within a season

You have no way of knowing that unless you mean winning the league which jose has struggled to do.

[Fats]

You have no way of knowing that unless you mean winning the league which jose has struggled to do.

Id put my house on it

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Id put my house on it

He have a better chance to win the cl with them then Jose did with us tbh, he have more of a chance to win the league over there then over here.

As for Jose thank feck it will never happen don't want thay cretin anywhere near this club. Let him feck off to spuds, mind you same can be said for the cretin in charge now.

[Syn]

I think to out-perform this current Barcelona team is almost impossible. If Real Madrid win the league I think it'll be the first time that I've ever seen such a clear example of the best team not winning. People say the 'league table doesn't lie' but if Barca don't win, it will have lied. Mourinho's a prick but he brings results. I used to hate Mourinho but I find it hard to dislike him now. He's a petulant child but if he came to Arsenal (he won't) I think he would thrive with the 'us against the world' mentality. Not saying he'd have the impact Wenger had late 90s but we'd do much better.

But as I said he's not a realistic choice because he'd never want to manage us. My first choice would be Spalletti. My second choice would be that Dortmund manager.

[Marc Overmars]

You may be right at some extent . Wenger will not be at Arsenal for ever . People however great they are , they come and go . Wenger will certainly have a time to call it a day . But we must also think of what would happen after Wenger . If we are not sure of getting anything better than we have why not keep the same situation for a while ..

There are no guarantees about anything. Everyone who wants him gone also understand the club would then undergo a huge transition without it being clear whether we'd be better or not. The point is, people are just fed up of what's been goin on for the best part of 5 years now. The fact you'd be willing to just continue on like this just shows how Wenger has arguably become bigger than the club.

Just because there isn't an obvious solution doesn't mean one doesn't exist. If you stand still you inevitably get left behind and that's happening to us right now.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Realistically what would we see with a different manager?

Are the board going to back this hypothetical new guy with more money? Or any money? Kroenke has already stated he's happy with the way the club is run and isn't looking to make any significant changes in that dept. And why should he? We are one of the few profit making clubs on the planet, and this is someone who invested his money, not for love, but for money.

And btw, anyone who thinks Usmanov is not motivated by money should bear in mind that when he bought shares he described us, not as a great club with an illustrious history and a massive potential to win things, but as a "nice portfolio addition".

Given that, what would a new manager have to play with? In raw materials, the same bunch of players, in money, the 5th largest wage bill in the Premiership. In terms of tactics and coaching, a different approach.

A new man can, and probably would re-balance the wage structure. More money at the top end, and less money for the second string. Logically that would mean that we would be able to attract better first choice 11 players, but worse second string. A better first 11 sounds great, until you consider our injury record and how reliant we are on the certain sections of the squad.

This year, fullbacks. Last year, centre backs. The year before, centre forwards.

According to Lady Arse we lead the league in injuries again. We've invested heavily in a new cutting edge medical centre last year, but we're yet to reap the rewards.

This will all be magically solved of course if you believe that it is Arsene's training methods, style of play or over-reliance on certain players are the cause (over-reliance which can only be exacerbated by having a large discrepancy between 1st 11 and 2nd string).

To sum up, dunno really.

[selassie]

phillipe auclair mentioned this a few months ago, that talks were happening and he was in place to take over in a year or two. obviously things have changed.


If he did take over at PSG it would be interesting to see if he changes his stance on buying or sticks to his current method and refuses to buy.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If he did take over at PSG it would be interesting to see if he changes his stance on buying or sticks to his current method and refuses to buy.

Depends if his board want instant success though is it not. He have no excuse not to spend over there and he not be on a tight budget.

[Boss]

As stated many times on here before, our lack of trophies in the last 6 years has nothing to do with money.

Mourinho would do a lot, lot more with Arsenal than Wenger has, but Mourinho may not have any kind of chance of being able to put together the squad Wenger has on the money he's done.

Ferguson and Mourinho would be able to win the league with our squad last year, of that I'm pretty sure. Whether would be able to with the one this is more difficult to predict, given the drop in quality but I think they'd at least be able to put in a decent challenge.

[Fist of Lehmann]

As stated many times on here before, our lack of trophies in the last 6 years has nothing to do with money.An opinion stated repeatedly is still just that. An opinion.

[Kano]

As stated many times on here before, our lack of trophies in the last 6 years has nothing to do with money.

perhaps but maureen would want a sizeable amount to bring his guys in. he won't be interested in picking up wengers pieces.

[selassie]

Depends if his board want instant success though is it not. He have no excuse not to spend over there and he not be on a tight budget.

I'd guess instant success given that they have already ploughed millions into the club. Somehow I can't see Arsene being allowed the time to organically groom a team out of graduates.

I do find it funny that whenever Arsene gets a lot of pressure from Fans regarding his position stories about where he could go or is going to go come out in the press.

I'm honestly at the point now where I couldn't care if he went tomorrow. I respect him for his achievements and to some extent his philosophy but I think it's definitely time for a fresh start.

[Coney]

Realistically what would we see with a different manager?

Are the board going to back this hypothetical new guy with more money? Or any money? Kroenke has already stated he's happy with the way the club is run and isn't looking to make any significant changes in that dept. And why should he? We are one of the few profit making clubs on the planet, and this is someone who invested his money, not for love, but for money.

And btw, anyone who thinks Usmanov is not motivated by money should bear in mind that when he bought shares he described us, not as a great club with an illustrious history and a massive potential to win things, but as a "nice portfolio addition".

Given that, what would a new manager have to play with? In raw materials, the same bunch of players, in money, the 5th largest wage bill in the Premiership. In terms of tactics and coaching, a different approach.

A new man can, and probably would re-balance the wage structure. More money at the top end, and less money for the second string. Logically that would mean that we would be able to attract better first choice 11 players, but worse second string. A better first 11 sounds great, until you consider our injury record and how reliant we are on the certain sections of the squad.

This year, fullbacks. Last year, centre backs. The year before, centre forwards.According to Lady Arse we lead the league in injuries again. We've invested heavily in a new cutting edge medical centre last year, but we're yet to reap the rewards.

This will all be magically solved of course if you believe that it is Arsene's training methods, style of play or over-reliance on certain players are the cause (over-reliance which can only be exacerbated by having a large discrepancy between 1st 11 and 2nd string).

To sum up, dunno really.

No - for me, it has been strikers that can score, year after year. While the defence has had cock-ups over the last 4 or 5 years (and I'm ignoring the tragic August this year as exceptionally shit and hopefully a one-off) the result has in the main just being that we dropped 2 points because we lost our 1 goal lead in the dying seconds, or lost from a drawing position for the same reason. However, time and again it should not have mattered because (if we had the tenacity of manu) we should have scored enough times that leaking the odd goal does not matter. And again, most times it happens against mediocre teams - and by rights of the amount of possession we should have been several goals up. This happens time and again, regardless of our defence being solid or crap.

Even in Henry's last season, there were no other players stepping up to take shots at goal. It has been the constant problem. When Henry left, I had though that the other players, who had been over-awed by him and who were almost forced to feed the ball for him to score, would then have that burden taken away and then start shooting and scoring. But they didn't. And bar RvP, that seems to me to have remained the case for the last 5+ years. Wenger seems OK with that. As soon as we are a goal up, we go all defensive and he even substitutes to do that. So time and again, we end up defending for the last 20-30 minutes inviting the opposition to score. And since we have no scorers of our own, even when we get a break, unless it is headed by RvP on a good day, fuck all happens.

If we had more players that could shoot and score, that would have the desired defensive effect because unlike now, the opposition could not take the risk of sending everyone up. At the moment, if they are a goal down, they don't need any players in their own half because we have all retreated to the back of our half to defend a flakey one goal lead.

And I haven't even mentioned 4-4-2 yet, where with 2 attackers ready to pounce, there is a defensive effect because the opposition is forced to keep players back. Well, actually I did in a way. With only one person (RvP) seemingly capable of shooting and scoring, 4-5-1 is the only possibility. And vice versa. And so on forever until something forces it to change. Like a manager who can put on a different record. Which means..... etc.

[Niall_Quinn]

Regarding the possible managerial swap between Wenger and Maureen. Out of the 2 managers who do you think would be more succesful in a seasons time if they did swap?

Mourinho without a shadow of a doubt. The guys will win at all costs, if you don't give him money to outspend the opposition he'll find another way to fuck them up. This guy is the best and the most intensely committed manager in the world, almost the exact reverse of Wenger. Wenger is a purist who involves himself in every aspect of the club. Mourinho is a street fighter who doesn't give a shit about the club and focuses everything on the battle on the pitch. If I was going into a fight I'd want Mourinho beside me every time, listening to Arsene talk about optimum energy efficiency while getting kicked in the head wouldn't be for me.

Plus I see Mourinho as the only manager who could take on and defeat our board. I consider our board to be Arsenal's biggest challenge and Arsenal's biggest enemy. Mourinho could fuck them up, drive them out and cause the sort of chaos we need to see at this club to reboot it. He'd get the players and the fans 100% behind him and we'd see the results on the pitch even without reinforcements. Everyone would end up hating us intensely, the hallmark of success in football. This is the only guy I could see being able to do a better job that Wenger. Anyone else would get eaten up by the board so nothing would change.

Swap deal, hell yes let's do it.

Also, never going to happen in a million years. The board has its man, the guy who focuses on money rather than the winner who is 100% committed to results.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I'd guess instant success given that they have already ploughed millions into the club. Somehow I can't see Arsene being allowed the time to organically groom a team out of graduates.

I do find it funny that whenever Arsene gets a lot of pressure from Fans regarding his position stories about where he could go or is going to go come out in the press.

I'm honestly at the point now where I couldn't care if he went tomorrow. I respect him for his achievements and to some extent his philosophy but I think it's definitely time for a fresh start.

Yep same here buddy. what he did for the club should be just that what he did, its what he does now that should count. I can't say whether or not spending moeny or not is his decsion because i don't and probs will never know. However i don't think he helps himself at times when he comes out with stuff like WP etc. my on concern if he does go is who comes in. I don't think Stan K will care who it is as long as money is being made.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger would fail in madrid and be sacked within a season

I think Wenger would be very successful in Madrid. He's not against spending money, he's for spending within the club's means. He'd have plenty of cash at Madrid and many of they types of player he's been trying to turn our lot into on a shoestring. He'd give Pep a run for his money because he'd have money and I believe he'd spend it. Quite a few of our lot might go with him of course, RvP, Jack, the kids that joined Arsenal specifically because of Wenger. Theo could ask but I bet Wenger would say no.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think to out-perform this current Barcelona team is almost impossible. If Real Madrid win the league I think it'll be the first time that I've ever seen such a clear example of the best team not winning. People say the 'league table doesn't lie' but if Barca don't win, it will have lied. Mourinho's a prick but he brings results. I used to hate Mourinho but I find it hard to dislike him now. He's a petulant child but if he came to Arsenal (he won't) I think he would thrive with the 'us against the world' mentality. Not saying he'd have the impact Wenger had late 90s but we'd do much better.

But as I said he's not a realistic choice because he'd never want to manage us. My first choice would be Spalletti. My second choice would be that Dortmund manager.

Mourinho wants Utd, doesn't he? But Arsenal as a stop gap while he waits for Ferguson to fuck off is not inconceivable from his point of view. It would be his biggest challenge yet, a team on the slide, the worst board in football, turning that around might appeal to him. All he'd have to do is win one trophy to call it a success and knowing Mourinho that trophy would be the Champions League. What's inconceivable is our board ever allowing it. He's their nightmare in every way.

[Coney]

Mourinho wants Utd, doesn't he? But Arsenal as a stop gap while he waits for Ferguson to fuck off is not inconceivable from his point of view. It would be his biggest challenge yet, a team on the slide, the worst board in football, turning that around might appeal to him. All he'd have to do is win one trophy to call it a success and knowing Mourinho that trophy would be the Champions League. What's inconceivable is our board ever allowing it. He's their nightmare in every way.

For the CL, I'd put up with Moronio's shit. He can fuck off afterwards though.

[Fist of Lehmann]

No - for me, it has been strikers that can score, year after year.Say what?

That was a point made about how often we have to delve deep into our reserves because somehow we end up with masses of injuries in one position.

Nothing about why we haven't won anything.

[Boss]

perhaps but maureen would want a sizeable amount to bring his guys in. he won't be interested in picking up wengers pieces.

I don't think he'd come to us unless he was offered at least 50-60M to spend and the destruction of our wage structure, I was just saying I think he'd be far more likely to get us some silverware if he was given Wenger's squad.

If only we could have Wenger in charge of bringing in players and another manager in charge of managing them, we'd walk everything imo. Never going to happen of course.

[Coney]

Say what?

That was a point made about how often we have to delve deep into our reserves because somehow we end up with masses of injuries in one position.

Nothing about why we haven't won anything.

Sure. We do have that. But nevertheless, the inability to put the ball in the net is of far more significance. IMNSHO

[Coney]

I don't think he'd come to us unless he was offered at least 50-60M to spend and the destruction of our wage structure, I was just saying I think he'd be far more likely to get us some silverware if he was given Wenger's squad.

If only we could have Wenger in charge of bringing in players and another manager in charge of managing them, we'd walk everything imo. Never going to happen of course.

If fixing the squad requires the destruction of our rigid wage structure, then so be it. If keeping a top player means we have to pay him lots and underperformers get less or told to fuck off, I can live with that.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

As stated many times on here before, our lack of trophies in the last 6 years has nothing to do with money.

Mourinho would do a lot, lot more with Arsenal than Wenger has, but Mourinho may not have any kind of chance of being able to put together the squad Wenger has on the money he's done.

Ferguson and Mourinho would be able to win the league with our squad last year, of that I'm pretty sure. Whether would be able to with the one this is more difficult to predict, given the drop in quality but I think they'd at least be able to put in a decent challenge.

Yes he do alot more pitch wise but board room wise things would still be the same unless he moaned about it. Its never going to happen really.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If fixing the squad requires the destruction of our rigid wage structure, then so be it. If keeping a top player means we have to pay him lots and underperformers get less or told to fuck off, I can live with that.

Can PHW and his croonies though.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Sure. We do have that. But nevertheless, the inability to put the ball in the net is of far more significance. IMNSHOSo...I make a point about how, in light of our injury record it's important to have a strong overall squad rather that a strong 11 and a weak 2nd 11...

...and you say...yes but, scoring goals! That's far more significant!

:unsure:

[Coney]

Can PHW and his croonies though.

Are you implying that threads like these are totally academic and have no influence or similarity to the real world? :yikes:

[Coney]

So...I make a point about how, in light of our injury record it's important to have a strong overall squad rather that a strong 11 and a weak 2nd 11...

...and you say...yes but, scoring goals! That's far more significant!

:unsure:

Are you suggesting that GW threads should be logical and stay on topic?

[Boss]

Yes he do alot more pitch wise but board room wise things would still be the same unless he moaned about it. Its never going to happen really.

The board can't force Wenger to spend money. They've given him money when he's needed it.

[Niall_Quinn]

The board can't force Wenger to spend money. They've given him money when he's needed it.

Yes, the absolutely could force him to spend money if they wanted to because they're in charge. Maybe they don't see it as their place to do so, but that's a different thing. The fact is they can do what they want and have been doing what they want even though it has cost the club massively.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Are you suggesting that GW threads should be logical and stay on topic?"It's not a disaster, but it would be nice if they could" - PHW

[Niall_Quinn]

Are you suggesting that GW threads should be logical and stay on topic?

Theo is shit.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The board can't force Wenger to spend money. They've given him money when he's needed it.

"Spend money and win stuff or don't and pick up your p45 " simple as that tbh, It was more of a case of did not want to force him.

[Coney]

Theo is shit.

That's numberweng.

[Coney]

"Spend money and win stuff or don't and pick up your p45 " simple as that tbh, It was more of a case of did not want to force him.

"... and buy a striker who can score goals". ;)

[Özim]

The board can't force Wenger to spend money. They've given him money when he's needed it.
He gave it back because spending money isn't always the answer and we had 10 players coming back that would be like new signings.

[Özim]

Yes, the absolutely could force him to spend money if they wanted to because they're in charge. Maybe they don't see it as their place to do so, but that's a different thing. The fact is they can do what they want and have been doing what they want even though it has cost the club massively.
Problem here is that if you force a manager to spend when he doesn't want to you're effectively telling him how to do his job and I'm not sure Wenger would like that.

He's always been given free reign and they've always stated how great he is and how he is the man for the job and that they trust him 100%, a change of attitude would surely suggest to him they don't trust him anymore.

You can't just change something that's been happening for years by snapping your fingers, forcing him to spend would be questioning his judgment and ability to manage.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Problem here is that if you force a manager to spend when he doesn't want to you're effectively telling him how to do his job and I'm not sure Wenger would like that.

He's always been given free reign and they've always stated how great he is and how he is the man for the job and that they trust him 100%, a change of attitude would surely suggest to him they don't trust him anymore.

You can't just change something that's been happening for years by snapping your fingers, forcing him to spend would be questioning his judgment and ability to manage.

who gives 2 shits if he would like that or not, what they say should go and if aw can't hack it then he should feck off, however they are happy for him not to spend because not one has come out and said otherwise.

Look at the russian in charge at chavs and tell me the owner has no say over what goes on at clubs.

[Özim]

who gives 2 shits if he would like that, what they say should go and if aw can't hack it then he should feck off, however they are happy for him not to spend because not one has come out and said otherwise.
Well they do for a start since they always say how much respect they have for him, that's part of the problem......he's been around too long and is too close to the board.

They're happy to make money no doubt about it, but he's just an extension of the board, you just have to listen to him talk to see that.

[Coney]

Well they do for a start since they always say how much respect they have for him, that's part of the problem......he's been around too long and is too close to the board.

They're happy to make money no doubt about it, but he's just an extension of the board, you just have to listen to him talk to see that.

Maybe if someone reminded them that Wenger was brought in by Dein and is still a friend of his, then they would be jolted into action.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Maybe if someone reminded them that Wenger was brought in by Dein and is still a friend of his, then they would be jolted into action.

Dein id like to hear his thoughts on things now and if he feels AW should go etc.

[Boss]

who gives 2 shits if he would like that or not, what they say should go and if aw can't hack it then he should feck off, however they are happy for him not to spend because not one has come out and said otherwise.

Look at the russian in charge at chavs and tell me the owner has no say over what goes on at clubs.

And look at the times he's rumoured to have interfered and see how that worked out. Shevchenko, Zhirkov, Torres?

You expect the board, who know nothing about football compared to a half decent manager to tell Wenger spend 20M or you're sacked? And you expect him to listen to them?

Behave.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

And look at the times he's rumoured to have interfered and see how that worked out. Shevchenko, Zhirkov, Torres?

You expect the board, who know nothing about football compared to a half decent manager to tell Wenger spend 20M or you're sacked? And you expect him to listen to them?

Behave.

Telling someome to spend a few bob and focing someone to sign players they don't want are too diffrent things. Im not saying the board should go all roman on wenger, but force a little pressure at least, instead of silly coments on how we don't need to spend, don't need top 4.

[Marc Overmars]

Why would they force pressure on him? They're very comfortable with what he's doing for them and likewise he's happy to work in an environment that goes hand in hand with his philosophy and outlook on the game.

[GP]

His philosophy sucks a big bag of dicks.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Why would they force pressure on him? They're very comfortable with what he's doing for them and likewise he's happy to work in an environment that goes hand in hand with his philosophy and outlook on the game.

Thts why i said they should be doing that.

[Marc Overmars]

Thts why i said they should be doing that.

Indeed, but I don't see a reason for them to. Basically everyone at the top of the club need to FOAD tbh.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Indeed, but I don't see a reason for them to. Basically everyone at the top of the club need to FOAD tbh.

Yes yes yes

[Niall_Quinn]

And look at the times he's rumoured to have interfered and see how that worked out. Shevchenko, Zhirkov, Torres?

You expect the board, who know nothing about football compared to a half decent manager to tell Wenger spend 20M or you're sacked? And you expect him to listen to them?

Behave.

Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? And yet the board allocating money but a football manager refusing to spend it is every bit as ludicrous. What's going on here is a game. Wenger gets paid £6mill a year and a good chunk of that must be compensation for taking the heat off a gang of thieves.

[Niall_Quinn]

Indeed, but I don't see a reason for them to. Basically everyone at the top of the club need to FOAD tbh.

Or just die, because they'd have to fuck off by default in that case.

[Coney]

Or just die, because they'd have to fuck off by default in that case.

That means nothing to these people. They still won't go.

[IBK]

I'm coming round to that thinking. Wenger is still a top manager and would be a success at other clubs. However, I think that the situation we have is now tired and will not be revitalised until the manager is replaced. What should have happened (and was promised) this summer does not seem to taking place - the fact we have not gone out at the start of this window to buy the striker/goalscorer we desparately need says it all, I think. There was a case for waiting during August to see how the Nasri/Cesc thing would pan out, but the results to the end of December made it clear that we need to get a finisher to assist RvP with the workload. That being the case, given we supposedly have the money, we should have bought a significant finisher in the first week and had that done and dusted.

I don't mind so much about the fullback situation - that we have 4 injured at once is unlucky and once they recover, we should be broadly OK. The lack of firepower up front which has been the case for years is what gets me. Bendtner, Chamakh and Walcott continue(d) to fail year after year but nothing is done to sling them out and try someone else. We need strikers with a natural confidence and that is not something you can do in training. I am coming to the conclusion that in terms of regular goalscoring, you've either got it or you haven't. And we need to buy a player - well, two would be better - who have got it. And the attacking midfielders are the same situation. Arshavin, Rosicy might have had it but they certainly show no sign of it now, so time to get rid and replace.

If people like 'arry can get players that are confident in front of goal, what the hell are we doing?

I agree totally.

We have all seen managers, like players, go stale at clubs for reasons other than to do with their latent talent. Whatever AW's merits, and there are many, he no longer seems willing, or able, to take the decisions needed to get the most out of our resources (both financial and playing wise). Both his methods and his ideas certainly seem to have stagnated at AFC.

I think the situation is best summed up by asking whether, in 1996, a younger Wenger would have felt that the power and prestige of clubs like United and Liverpool was a bar to him achieving success at Arsenal? Of course not. And yet the current version likes nothing better than talking about being unable to compete with the likes of Citeh. Yes times have changed and Citeh and the Chavs have taken spending to a new level - but we are talking a mindset, a committment and an ambition here - all traits that seem to have ebbed away a bit from Wenger.

What concerns me most of all is that under Wenger there has, and continues to be, an errosion of expectation and belief around our club. Lose enough times to sub-standard opposition; make enough individual errors; go into game with no plan b, and continue to field struggling or below par players often enough and you lose the winning habit. This is what's happened to us. The opposite is what has happened at United, who can continue to challenge for the title with a team much less talented that they were in their pomp.

There is no guarantee whatsoever that a replacement would do any better, but it seems to me to be an extension of the lack of ambition that many Gooners are accusing the club of to refuse to make a managerial change simply because the alternative might not work out. How far should Wenger take us down the league before we deem the risk of a change to be acceptable?

In any event, setting aside for a moment the financial issues, once we finish outside the top four, and trophyless, is there really that much difference in terms of attracting sponsorship, players, supporters between, say 5th place and 10th? I'd say the likelihood of slipping even further down the league while a new manager finds his feet is fairly remote, given a) the calibre of players that a new manager would have to work with, and b) the fact that even the current owners and board will be motivated to attract someone with a decent reputation, if only to protect their investment. And lets not forget the size of pay packet that AW receives. It stands to reason that a similar sum would be made available to secure a talented successor.

[Coney]

I think the situation is best summed up by asking whether, in 1996, a younger Wenger would have felt that the power and prestige of clubs like United and Liverpool was a bar to him achieving success at Arsenal? Of course not. And yet the current version likes nothing better than talking about being unable to compete with the likes of Citeh. Yes times have changed and Citeh and the Chavs have taken spending to a new level - but we are talking a mindset, a committment and an ambition here - all traits that seem to have ebbed away a bit from Wenger.

Now despite being an Arsenal fan for over 40 years and all that implies, I will ask this. If Citeh and Chavs have reached such a height because they are prepared to spend over half a billion each on players, how come Harry Rednapp can go to Tottenham and have them motivated to where, at the moment, they are title challengers? And in that last sentence, there is a keyword - "motivated".

[Kano]

Now despite being an Arsenal fan for over 40 years and all that implies, I will ask this. If Citeh and Chavs have reached such a height because they are prepared to spend over half a billion each on players, how come Harry Rednapp can go to Tottenham and have them motivated to where, at the moment, they are title challengers? And in that last sentence, there is a keyword - "motivated".

i'm not sure 3 years and one year 'challenging' for the title with 15 years is a fair comparison - fergie is a freak of nature, history tells you that 5-10 years max is the prime period for a manager to retain an edge at the same club.

[Syn]

We have all seen managers, like players, go stale at clubs for reasons other than to do with their latent talent. Whatever AW's merits, and there are many, he no longer seems willing, or able, to take the decisions needed to get the most out of our resources (both financial and playing wise). Both his methods and his ideas certainly seem to have stagnated at AFC.

I think the situation is best summed up by asking whether, in 1996, a younger Wenger would have felt that the power and prestige of clubs like United and Liverpool was a bar to him achieving success at Arsenal? Of course not. And yet the current version likes nothing better than talking about being unable to compete with the likes of Citeh. Yes times have changed and Citeh and the Chavs have taken spending to a new level - but we are talking a mindset, a committment and an ambition here - all traits that seem to have ebbed away a bit from Wenger.

I think it's reasonable to think Wenger had a chance of competing with Man Utd, Newcastle, Liverpool in '96 than competing with Man City now. When he came, he knew a lot of shit that other managers didn't. He knew all this Japanese dietary stuff, training methods and knew about all these French players that no-one had much idea of. He had that knowledge and he exploited it. Now that information has become far more transparent, the role of the manager is more towards motivating players. And maybe he's not good at that.

Fully agree with TEG's comment earlier. I firmly believe our squad was good enough to win the league last season (and the season before). Wenger can collect all the ingredients needed (well, players, anyway) but that's where it ends.

[Kano]

Fully agree with TEG's comment earlier. I firmly believe our squad was good enough to win the league last season (and the season before). Wenger can collect all the ingredients needed (well, players, anyway) but that's where it ends.
i don't think it is as black and white as that, mainly because of the injuries.

i just don't get it, i really don't. every single season we lose big players for a long time and are not able to cope. the club were even proudly boasting about our new start of the art facilities based on american sports science and yet we are suffering again.

why? what on gods earth is the problem with the medical team - it makes such little sense considering wengers background and belief in precise preparation. this more than anything has ruined the past 3 seasons at least.

[Syn]

i don't think it is as black and white as that, mainly because of the injuries.

i just don't get it, i really don't. every single season we lose big players for a long time and are not able to cope. the club were even proudly boasting about our new start of the art facilities based on american sports science and yet we are suffering again.

why? what on gods earth is the problem with the medical team - it makes such little sense considering wengers background and belief in precise preparation. this more than anything has ruined the past 3 seasons at least.

Preaching to the choir. I'm been moaning my tits off about the no.1 problem at the club (injuries) for ages. It's always the main reason for our annual collapse. But I don't accept it as 'luck' any more because I think it's too persistent to be luck. We're doing something wrong. I am guessing there is not enough weight being put on it. Before every game Wenger says "we have x,y,z to come back which will make us stronger" but no-one ever asks "hang on, why are x,y,z always out? We are we always topping the injury table?". And it's possible that they have considered it but just haven't found a solution. Either way, enough time has passed and we can't wait forever for him to find a solution to it. So he has to be judged with injuries being his problem, not 'luck'.

[Coney]

I think it's reasonable to think Wenger had a chance of competing with Man Utd, Newcastle, Liverpool in '96 than competing with Man City now. When he came, he knew a lot of shit that other managers didn't. He knew all this Japanese dietary stuff, training methods and knew about all these French players that no-one had much idea of. He had that knowledge and he exploited it. Now that information has become far more transparent, the role of the manager is more towards motivating players. And maybe he's not good at that.

Fully agree with TEG's comment earlier. I firmly believe our squad was good enough to win the league last season (and the season before). Wenger can collect all the ingredients needed (well, players, anyway) but that's where it ends.

Yeah - if Wenger was director of football with a motivating and tactical manager handling the team for matches, that would maybe do the trick.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Now despite being an Arsenal fan for over 40 years and all that implies, I will ask this. If Citeh and Chavs have reached such a height because they are prepared to spend over half a billion each on players, how come Harry Rednapp can go to Tottenham and have them motivated to where, at the moment, they are title challengers? And in that last sentence, there is a keyword - "motivated".

Harry has always been good with players tbf and imo had he been at UTD or a Chavs or with us before spuds he'd have probs won the league ages ago. Wenger is not and has never been a motivator that isthe diffrence and for those who are in doubt the games after the cc final last season will tell you so.

Problem with wenger as much as he wants to win things he seems to be more motivated to balance the books or do things this way the right way in his eyes. As much as i don't my him protecting his players with his "i did not see it" nonsense he needs to man up and let them too as well.

even fabregas last season behaved like a whinging spoilt brat who thought if he don't get his way he had the right to complain. Like the tractor boy comment. that comes down from the manager to the players.

[Kano]

Harry has always been good with players tbf and imo had he been at UTD or a Chavs or with us before spuds he'd have probs won the league ages ago. Wenger is not and has never been a motivator that isthe diffrence and for those who are in doubt the games after the cc final last season will tell you so.

it tells us his current mind state and perhaps inability to motivate right now but you do not win leagues without any idea on how to motivate and manage a group of players, no matter how successful they have been previously. ego's need to be managed, dips in form addressed etc so it was a skill that he clearly had in his repertoire but it has faded, along with a few other key components.

[GP]

Wenger needs to foad tbh.

senile old cheese eating cunt.

[Coney]

Wenger needs to foad tbh.

senile old cheese eating cunt.

tbf, he has done the surrender monkey bit.

[fakeyank]

what does his colour have to do with anything? quite an 'odd' thing to say.

Its a joke.. :doh:

[fakeyank]

The board are clearly implicit in all this. If they weren't they'd have sacked him years ago. They're clearly happy with what he's doing and that he's kept us top four without spending that much. If they sack him what makes you think the next manager will suddenly be allowed to spend the money he needs to reverse the decline? There are good reasons for sacking Wenger but don't think that when someone new comes in things will inevitably get better. And please don't say they can't get any worse, as frustrating as things are right now we're 5th, still in the FA Cup and won our CL group. As far as we've declined from the invincibles there's far further we could fall.

There is no guarantee the next manager will be an upgrade but there is definite reason there now (as has been for a few years) that AW needs to go. We cannot not take this risk just because AW guarantees us mediocrity. May be the next manager will suck, well then sack that manager too and get someone who will work. We need to look at being the no.1 team in England, not just happy at being 4th.

Having said that, 4th is also getting out of reach for us.. so AW does not even give us that, so whats the excuse for not taking a risk? None tbh!

[fakeyank]

I agree totally.

We have all seen managers, like players, go stale at clubs for reasons other than to do with their latent talent. Whatever AW's merits, and there are many, he no longer seems willing, or able, to take the decisions needed to get the most out of our resources (both financial and playing wise). Both his methods and his ideas certainly seem to have stagnated at AFC.

I think the situation is best summed up by asking whether, in 1996, a younger Wenger would have felt that the power and prestige of clubs like United and Liverpool was a bar to him achieving success at Arsenal? Of course not. And yet the current version likes nothing better than talking about being unable to compete with the likes of Citeh. Yes times have changed and Citeh and the Chavs have taken spending to a new level - but we are talking a mindset, a committment and an ambition here - all traits that seem to have ebbed away a bit from Wenger.

What concerns me most of all is that under Wenger there has, and continues to be, an errosion of expectation and belief around our club. Lose enough times to sub-standard opposition; make enough individual errors; go into game with no plan b, and continue to field struggling or below par players often enough and you lose the winning habit. This is what's happened to us. The opposite is what has happened at United, who can continue to challenge for the title with a team much less talented that they were in their pomp.

There is no guarantee whatsoever that a replacement would do any better, but it seems to me to be an extension of the lack of ambition that many Gooners are accusing the club of to refuse to make a managerial change simply because the alternative might not work out. How far should Wenger take us down the league before we deem the risk of a change to be acceptable?

In any event, setting aside for a moment the financial issues, once we finish outside the top four, and trophyless, is there really that much difference in terms of attracting sponsorship, players, supporters between, say 5th place and 10th? I'd say the likelihood of slipping even further down the league while a new manager finds his feet is fairly remote, given a) the calibre of players that a new manager would have to work with, and b) the fact that even the current owners and board will be motivated to attract someone with a decent reputation, if only to protect their investment. And lets not forget the size of pay packet that AW receives. It stands to reason that a similar sum would be made available to secure a talented successor.

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

There is no guarantee the next manager will be an upgrade but there is definite reason there now (as has been for a few years) that AW needs to go. We cannot not take this risk just because AW guarantees us mediocrity. May be the next manager will suck, well then sack that manager too and get someone who will work. We need to look at being the no.1 team in England, not just happy at being 4th.

Having said that, 4th is also getting out of reach for us.. so AW does not even give us that, so whats the excuse for not taking a risk? None tbh!

If you call changing the radio station while the car is plunging off a cliff a worthwhile risk then Wenger Out!

We'll need to hit the ground and see if we survive. That will probably coincide with Kroenke cashing in and that might be up to 5 years in the future. If nothing is going to change (Kroenke has said it, the board has said it) - and it won't because it's up to the people in charge to change things - then might as well let Wenger see out his contract and then get some eunuch in to wait out the remainder. If Wenger stays we pay him what he's owed, if he goes early we pay him what he's owed plus we pay the new guy? What do you think our board will do then, spend money or save money?

[Power n Glory]

If you call changing the radio station while the car is plunging off a cliff a worthwhile risk then Wenger Out!

We'll need to hit the ground and see if we survive. That will probably coincide with Kroenke cashing in and that might be up to 5 years in the future. If nothing is going to change (Kroenke has said it, the board has said it) - and it won't because it's up to the people in charge to change things - then might as well let Wenger see out his contract and then get some eunuch in to wait out the remainder. If Wenger stays we pay him what he's owed, if he goes early we pay him what he's owed plus we pay the new guy? What do you think our board will do then, spend money or save money?

Newcastle have the same idiot chairman that took them down but good managers have management on the pitch has resulted in their return to the Prem. It doesn't have to take a change in club ownership to swing things around. It didn't take a change in ownership to get us up to this level. It a took a change in management. Why is it the reverse now?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Newcastle have the same idiot chairman that took them down but good managers have management on the pitch has resulted in their return to the Prem. It doesn't have to take a change in club ownership to swing things around. It didn't take a change in ownership to get us up to this level. It a took a change in management. Why is it the reverse now?

Good point, but they have not had to pay off staduim debts and if they don't win stuff their not really pressured too so for them expectations are lower comapred to us lets be really like spurs they overachieved with less pressure.

[Niall_Quinn]

Newcastle have the same idiot chairman that took them down but good managers have management on the pitch has resulted in their return to the Prem. It doesn't have to take a change in club ownership to swing things around. It didn't take a change in ownership to get us up to this level. It a took a change in management. Why is it the reverse now?

Depends what you think the aim of the current shareholder(s) is. If you think they have the footballing interests of the club at heart and can see a middle ground between the finances and the requirements of the team then maybe a managerial change will have an impact. But if they are biased entirely in towards their own financial interests and couldn't give a flying fuck about they club beyond what it can deliver into their own pockets then they already have the best manager in the business for the job they want him to do. Personally I believe actions speak a lot louder than words therefore I conclude a managerial change would make no difference whatsoever, except for that usual bump you get when a new face arrives. Mourinho may be different but the board would hardly hire a guy that might tell them to their face what they are.

[Coney]

Its a joke.. :doh:

You think a man's colour is a joke? That's outrageous.

[Niall_Quinn]

You think a man's colour is a joke? That's outrageous.

I was incredibly offended but didn't want to say anything to draw attention to what is probably the most shocking thing ever said on GW. We all like a laugh but there's a line that should never be crossed and the poster (who shall remain unmentionable) has strayed waaaaaaaay beyond that line.

[GP]

You think a man's colour is a joke? That's outrageous.

It's funny cos he's brown. The worst kind of coloured.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's funny cos he's brown. The worst kind of coloured.

True and thanks for expressing things a little more delicately than our "friend" who continues to be unmentionable.

[IBK]

I think it's reasonable to think Wenger had a chance of competing with Man Utd, Newcastle, Liverpool in '96 than competing with Man City now. When he came, he knew a lot of shit that other managers didn't. He knew all this Japanese dietary stuff, training methods and knew about all these French players that no-one had much idea of. He had that knowledge and he exploited it. Now that information has become far more transparent, the role of the manager is more towards motivating players. And maybe he's not good at that.

Fully agree with TEG's comment earlier. I firmly believe our squad was good enough to win the league last season (and the season before). Wenger can collect all the ingredients needed (well, players, anyway) but that's where it ends.

I agree with your last point, and feel that this is one of the main ways in which Wenger is letting us down - his refusal to bring in a hungry, motivational no.2. This is not intended as a criticism of Pat Rice - but its clear that the chemistry, for whatever reason is not working, and that some fresh ideas are required in the coaching department. The manager's apparent refusal to consider this is a dereliction of duty, as is the failure to take effective steps to address our ridiculous injury situation, that has now undoubtedly wrecked our chances for several years.

As for your first comment - I agree that the reality is that AW had a better chance of competing in 1996. But my point more concerned hunger for success and the determination to do whatever it takes in pursuit of success. Wenger in his first years was ruthless and committed in applying every conceivable resource in pursuit of the title. I don't think we can say the same now, when experimentation and 'philosophy' appear to be allowed to stand in the way, justified by the fact that its that much harder to succeed these days.

[Niall_Quinn]

Fuck it, let's just keep Arsene, he's one of us and loves the club just like we love it. Everyone who's not a gooner can fuck off, can't they? Like Kroenke, for example.

[Coney]

Fuck it, let's just keep Arsene, he's one of us and loves the club just like we love it. Everyone who's not a gooner can fuck off, can't they? Like Arshavin, for example.

:gp:

[Syn]

Everyone who's not a gooner can fuck off

Fine, I will.

[Niall_Quinn]

:gp:

Very immature of you to do that silly thing and replace Kroenke with Walcott :sulk:

[Coney]

Very immature of you to do that silly thing and replace Kroenke with Asburton2006 :sulk:

:(

[fakeyank]

Fuck it, let's just keep Kroenke, he's one of us and loves the club just like we love it. Everyone who's not a gooner can fuck off, can't they? Like Wenger, for example.

:gp:

Kroenke, a true gooner! :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

REAL MADRID will step up their interest in Arsene Wenger if Jose Mourinho’s El Clasico torture continues at the Nou Camp in April.


The Bernabeu board are casting covetous eyes towards Arsenal boss Wenger again as opinion in the Spanish capital turns against Mourinho.

Although Real are in pole position for their first league (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/298286#) title in four years and are in the last 16 of the Champions League, Mourinho has hit a brick wall in his attempts to wrest the balance of power from Barcelona.
The 2-2 draw in the Copa del Rey quarter-final on Wednesday handed Barcelona a 4-3 win on aggregate. Mourinho has won only once in 10 Clasicos since taking charge at the start of last season.
They meet again on April 22 in what could be a championship decider.
Wenger, along with Germany coach Joachim Low, is on the shortlist of candidates seen as a replacement for The Special One.
Wenger, jeered by Gunners fans during last Sunday’s home defeat by Manchester United, has a contract until 2014.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/298286


Jose :pal:

[KSE Comedy Club]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/298286


Jose :pal:

Whats funny about Jose exactly?

Barca have only bettered Real cause they have everyone in their pockets.

Its the owners of Real that are the fucking mugs if they want to sack a good manager.

RM :pal:

They can have wenger, he'll fail there too. The position at Real is unfillable tbh.

[Globalgunner]

Wenger will fail spectacularly if he should make the eggregious mistake of going to RM. He cannot handle the level of expectancy there. The white hankies will be out for him in 3 months. I can already hear his excuses........"they wanted me to spend money....the only super quality I needed is not available as he already plays for Barcelona". He wont do it anyway, Wengers ship is already at its home port, he will only leave in a strait jacke,t kicking and screaming about being hard done by.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Whats funny about Jose exactly?

Barca have only bettered Real cause they have everyone in their pockets.

Its the owners of Real that are the fucking mugs if they want to sack a good manager.

RM :pal:

They can have wenger, he'll fail there too. The position at Real is unfillable tbh.

With the sqaud he has he should have made them better then barca by now and he has failed too do that and he he don't win a trophy he deserves to be sacked.

[Özim]

Wenger on the BBC


Ahead of the game, Wenger responded to the negative reaction from the Arsenal fans after his decision to replace Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain with Andrey Arshavin in the second half of Sunday's 2-1 defeat by Manchester United.

"I can live with that," he said. "I will fight forever for the values I believe are right in football and one or two bad reactions will not change that."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16761570.stm
The pr*ck doesn't give a toss what the fans think, perhaps he should look at what's been happening on the pitch the last 6 years instead of dwelling on these "values" he believes in, noone really gives a toss about those except him.....if only he was held accountable.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Wenger on the BBC


The pr*ck doesn't give a toss what the fans think, perhaps he should look at what's been happening on the pitch the last 6 years instead of dwelling on these "values" he believes in, noone really gives a toss about those except him.....if only he was held accountable.

im pretty sure the "prick" does care what the fans think, did you watch his speech at the AGM? brilliant speech and one that convinced me it is the board not him that is more to blame. he cares about this club, just look at his reactions when we win and lose, they are of a man who cares. if he didnt care, he would have fucked off by now. you can blame him for many things but not lack of caring or the fans. he wants to win as much as us

[alexander]

Im never sure we get the actual truth from Wenger or the board. Wenger is a good honest man, but I am sure there is so much going on behind the scenes he hates, but just has to come out and sing from the same hymn sheet as the board. He is far from stupid, and must see the weakness` in this squad, he must. I would like to hear the real story when he does leave.

As Arsenal fans we are just like mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed shit.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wenger on the BBC


The pr*ck doesn't give a toss what the fans think, perhaps he should look at what's been happening on the pitch the last 6 years instead of dwelling on these "values" he believes in, noone really gives a toss about those except him.....if only he was held accountable.

Are you that niave of course he cares what the fans think, he is not going to say the fans got to me is he.

[Power n Glory]

Im never sure we get the actual truth from Wenger or the board. Wenger is a good honest man, but I am sure there is so much going on behind the scenes he hates, but just has to come out and sing from the same hymn sheet as the board. He is far from stupid, and must see the weakness` in this squad, he must. I would like to hear the real story when he does leave.

As Arsenal fans we are just like mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed shit.

Honest? Mr 'I didn't See It'? Honest?

He just lied about Oxlade's 'cramp' the other day even though the kid was fine. He lies a lot but usually it's to the press to protect his players. We're not used to being on the receiving end.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Honest? Mr 'I didn't See It'? Honest?

He just lied about Oxlade's 'cramp' the other day even though the kid was fine. He lies a lot but usually it's to the press to protect his players. We're not used to being on the receiving end.

He never said he had cramp

[Power n Glory]

Did Wenger say he was cramping up during the game?

[Niall_Quinn]

Did Wenger say he was cramping up during the game?

He said, "He had started fatigue, stretched his calf and he was sick in the week"

[Power n Glory]

He said, "He had started fatigue, stretched his calf and he was sick in the week"

He lied because in his interview today regarding player fitness, he said he was fine and it just fatigue, no injury.

[Özim]

I wouldn't call Wenger honest, I might call him Billy Bullshit though.

[Niall_Quinn]

He lied because in his interview today regarding player fitness, he said he was fine and it just fatigue, no injury.

I thought at the time he was bullshitting about the injury and I still think that. We don;t know for sure but it looks like he reached for anything having been surprised by the reaction of the crowd. Anyway, the good news is he's said Ox starts on Sunday.

[KSE Comedy Club]

With the sqaud he has he should have made them better then barca by now and he has failed too do that and he he don't win a trophy he deserves to be sacked. Seriously, wtf!?! :blink:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Did Wenger say he was cramping up during the game?

Nope, nothing of the sort lol

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I wouldn't call Wenger honest, I might call him Billy Bullshit though.

im sure he'll be upset by that, oh wait the prick does not care what the fans think.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Seriously, wtf!?! :blink:

So jose should not sacked if he don't win the league and cl then?

[KSE Comedy Club]

So jose should not sacked if he don't win the league and cl then?If your trying to draw a parallel with wenger then your way of course mate :good:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If your trying to draw a parallel with wenger then your way of course mate :good:

Nothing to do with wenger answer the question yes or no. you can't say he has been a sucess at madrid if hehas they would not think about getting rid of him fr someone "worse"

[KSE Comedy Club]

Wenger fed the press some bullshit to try and cover his own arse, ox was the liveliest player on the pitch. No fatigue and definately no stretched calf!

What a coincidence that he should nearly suffer the same injury that Henry has at the moment :rolleyes:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Nothing to do with wenger answer the question yes or no. you can't say he has been a sucess at madrid if hehas they would not think about getting rid of him fr someone "worse"Your right, it has nothing to do with wenger, but I see what your trying to get at but it's totally different.

You have to be god to keep a job managing real cause the owners are completely fucking deluded. Wenger would do no better than Jose who is a better manager.

[Cripps_orig]

He won a trophy last season and is 5 points clear in the table this.

Id say hes been successful.

Real sacked Del Bosque after winning the league so CTG would say hes been a failure

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Your right, it has nothing to do with wenger, but I see what your trying to get at but it's totally different.

You have to be god to keep a job managing real cause the owners are completely fucking deluded. Wenger would do no better than Jose who is a better manager.

I agree, but unlike here he'd have to spend if he went there or they kick him out when the window closed their board is more ambitious and ruthless then ours.

In won't happen though shame though

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He won a trophy last season and is 5 points clear in the table this.

Id say hes been successful.

Real sacked Del Bosque after winning the league so CTG would say hes been a failure

Not me the real board they sacked him, read my post again, i said if jose did not win the league he'd be a failure.

[KSE Comedy Club]

He won a trophy last season and is 5 points clear in the table this.

Id say hes been successful.

Real sacked Del Bosque after winning the league so CTG would say hes been a failure

Yep, exactly.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yep, exactly.

Where the feck did i say del Bosque was a faillure

[KSE Comedy Club]

Where the feck did i say del Bosque was a faillureEh?

It was ach that said it :shrug:

I agree what he said about Jose being successful so far.

[alexander]

I would have Jose here in a flash. Tactically he is much smarter than Wenger. He is a big spender yes, but he wins, by whatever means, and thats what I want from a team, who wants to watch losers? Thats what we are doing now, and tbh Im not enjoying it too much.

Anyone think he would actually come to us, if the option came up for him?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I would have Jose here in a flash. Tactically he is much smarter than Wenger. He is a big spender yes, but he wins, by whatever means, and thats what I want from a team, who wants to watch losers? Thats what we are doing now, and tbh Im not enjoying it too much.

Anyone think he would actually come to us, if the option came up for him?


No and the board won't let it happen thank feck.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Eh?

It was ach that said it :shrug:

I agree what he said about Jose being successful so far.

I thought you agreed with him about it, with that i apologise.

[alexander]

No and the board won't let it happen thank feck.

not a fan then

[Olivier's xmas twist]

not a fan then

Not really no, but i do give the guy props for what he can do, just don't like his ego. Plus i can't see the board giving him 200 mill he would want to spend to get the squad up to standard. Or see him coming to this club knowing we don't spend big.

[alexander]

Not really no, but i do give the guy props for what he can do, just don't like his ego. Plus i can't see the board giving him 200 mill he would want to spend to get the squad up to standard. Or see him coming to this club knowing we don't spend big.

His ego is a tad too big, but Im sure this helps the team, gives them total belief. Maybe he would fancy the challenge of winning on a tighter budget. But, I think you are right, us spending very little/nothing would probably stop him even considering us.

[Xhaka Can’t]

His ego is a tad too big, but Im sure this helps the team, gives them total belief. Maybe he would fancy the challenge of winning on a tighter budget. But, I think you are right, us spending very little/nothing would probably stop him even considering us.
In that case, I hope the Board tighten the purse strings.

[alexander]

In that case, I hope the Board tighten the purse strings.

pretty sure they are so tightly knotted now, they are never opening. you have no worries. Still, my view is he would be good for us.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I think jose would do wonders with the squad we have now. For a start he would drill the defence on how to defend, then organise the midfield so they track back and defend as a team.

He would also change formations and make subs to change the game when he needed to.
He would also install a winning mentality into the team too, instead of the father son, 'its the takin part that counts' attitude that we currently seem to have.

It's a bit much to assume that he couldn't do anything to our team without £1-2-300m.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Guys, there are plenty of other options than the most egotistical vile degenerate self publicist in Spain who has a weak mentality that incapacitates him every time he faces his one and only rival in Spain.

Particularly with the amount we pay our Manager.

We don't need and would be better off without Mourinho.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I think jose would do wonders with the squad we have now. For a start he would drill the defence on how to defend, then organise the midfield so they track back and defend as a team.
He would also change formations and make subs to change the game when he needed to.
It's a bit much to assume that he couldn't do anything to our team without £1-2-300m.

Not its not even the best managers would win do well with this sqaud simply they are not good enough don't matter who is in change jose or no jose.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Guys, there are plenty of other options than the most egotistical vile degenerate self publicist in Spain who has a weak mentality that incapacitates him every time he faces his one and only rival in Spain.

Particularly with the amount we pay our Manager.

We don't need and would be better off without Mourinho.
Stop talking sense

[alexander]

Not its not even the best managers would win do well with this sqaud simply they are not good enough don't matter who is in change jose or no jose.

He might play players in their best position.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He might play players in their best position.

And he might not. Like i said even he cam it and spent a couple of mill he may do well, however if he did not and we had the same sqaud for the whole of nest season nothing would change much.

[alexander]

And he might not. Like i said even he cam it and spent a couple of mill he may do well, however if he did not and we had the same sqaud for the whole of nest season nothing owuld change much.

Your prefered option?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Your prefered option?

Well obviously as Arsenal fan even if he came to us id want to win things no brainer

[KSE Comedy Club]

And he might not. Like i said even he cam it and spent a couple of mill he may do well, however if he did not and we had the same sqaud for the whole of nest season nothing would change much.I don't think for one minute that wenger has got the best out of this squad.

[-Xs-]

I don't think for one minute that wenger has got the best out of this squad.

I'm reminded of when redknapp took over at the spuds; he quipped that he couldn't believe the squad he had was in a scrap at the buttom of the league, performing considerably less than the sum of their parts. Different teams perhaps, but I do sometimes question whether AW is really getting the best out of the team. I guess that comes from around 6 years of abject failure.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

i think our squad isn't as strong as it could be, mertesacker is too slow for premier league football, we over rely on robin van persie for goals, theo walcott has shown himself to be a very average player indeed......we are much weaker in midfield without nasri and fabregas, combined with the loss of jack wilshere.....but still maraone chamakah was a perfectly good striker when he first came to Arsenal and now he has zero confidence, and Arshavin has always been lazy but he used to be able to move with more speed, have a better first touch have better ball distribution.....so it's a bit of a an b not the strongest squad we have ever had and wenger managing to burn out the talent we seemingly did have at our disposal.

[Fats]

Wenger has to go now, right now. I don't believe anyone could do a worse job. Bloke is a clueless fool.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wenger has to go now, right now. I don't believe anyone could do a worse job. Bloke is a clueless fool.

:pal:

[Fats]

Really, I mean really????

The guy is taking this club to the shitter while he picks up 6 million a year.

We were lucky today just lucky, nothing more nothing less.

[tigerthesmurf85]

Sad to say it. I love Wenger. Can't remember him not being at the club. Wenger is Arsenal for me. Will be very sad to see him go but I think it's about time.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Really, I mean really????

The guy is taking this club to the shitter while he picks up 6 million a year.

We were lucky today just lucky, nothing more nothing less.

very much doubt that

[Cripps_orig]

IT'S so convenient, it almost makes sense.
Jose Mourinho to Arsenal, Arsene Wenger to Real Madrid.

And that is despite Arsenal's 3-2 victory over Aston Villa yesterday, which, as all Gooners know, doesn't mean a great deal in the long term.

Mentioning the possibility the other day of Wenger's time at the Emirates perhaps coming to an end, the ugly mug at the top of this column received various communications along the lines of there not being anyone out there capable of filling the great man's boots.

My own musings on how Brendan Rodgers and Paul Lambert might be worthy of consideration were greeted, in some quarters, with huge amusement by fans doubting the duo's credentials (and my sanity).

They had obviously forgotten that George Graham arrived from Millwall and the old Second Division.

And Double-winning Bertie Mee from the physio's room.

They can't argue with Mourinho's pedigree, further enhanced by Madrid now being SEVEN points clear of Barcelona at the top of La Liga.

The way it's going, Mourinho could well become the first manager to win titles in England, Italy and Spain.

And yet it's increasingly likely he will leave the Spanish capital at the end of the season.

Some of his players have had enough of him, while Madrid fans have become disenchanted with some of his tactics — basically, his inability to confront Barcelona with any master plan other than to kick them to pieces.

In most other games, though, they have been outstanding — as 70 goals in their 20 matches to date suggests.

It is said that only a Champions League triumph can save Mourinho.

But even that wasn't enough to spare Jupp Heynckes, who left the club immediately after winning the European Cup in 1998.

His crime? Finishing fourth in the league.

Even Fabio Capello got the heave-ho for playing negative football as Madrid won the title in 2007.

Should Mourinho go, there could be no better replacement than Wenger, who has twice rebuffed the Spaniards' approach.

It would also be just what the Frenchman needs — an invigorating challenge after becoming a little jaded at Arsenal.

Madrid would be a tremendous opportunity to rekindle his unique coaching talents — and the icing on the cake of a long and illustrious career.

As a master of boardroom politics and a hugely respected figure in the world of football, Wenger would also smooth the troubled waters at the Bernabeu.

The only sticking point would be whether the staid, conservative Arsenal hierarchy are brave enough to employ Mourinho.

A headstrong, domineering character, he would also want assurances that he had money to spend.

Which is exactly what the side needs and what Arsenal fans have long demanded.

More important, though, is Mourinho's uncanny knack of winning trophies — a former quality of Wenger's that, sadly, is no longer apparent.

All round, the Portuguese man of war would not so much shake the club out of its lethargy as plant a bomb underneath it.

Should Mourinho leave Madrid, there will be an enormous scramble for his services, with Manchester City also interested should Roberto Mancini contrive to blow the title.

Yet the greatest threat to Arsenal could come from rivals Tottenham if Harry Redknapp goes on to succeed Capello as England boss.



Certainly, there are players at White Hart Lane, like Gareth Bale and Luka Modric, who Mourinho would love to manage.

It was always assumed he would follow Alex Ferguson in at Old Trafford.

But with the veteran Scot suggesting that he will continue in charge of Manchester United for a few more years yet, that door would appear to have closed.

So Mourinho for Arsenal.

One thing for certain would be guaranteed.

The Gunners wouldn't get bullied at the back any more.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4095285/Why-not-a-Wenger-n-Jose-swap.html

Why not indeed? Would be win/win for everyone apart from Real Madrid

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4095285/Why-not-a-Wenger-n-Jose-swap.html

Why not indeed? Would be win/win for everyone apart from Real Madrid

One little terminal problem. The board. Why would they swap a manager who agrees on their stance in terms of underfunding the team and replace him with a man who would demand the changes we've needed for years? It can't happen while the current board is here.

[fakeyank]

Wenger needs to GTFO. He is bringing the club down every season..

[-Xs-]

One little terminal problem. The board. Why would they swap a manager who agrees on their stance in terms of underfunding the team and replace him with a man who would demand the changes we've needed for years? It can't happen while the current board is here.

Aren't the board only locked in till this year though? I.e Silent Stan, if he suddenly decides he wants to be 'fucking vocal Stan' could tell them to do one, as he actually wants a successful team. Not likely to happen but you never know.

[KSE Comedy Club]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4095285/Why-not-a-Wenger-n-Jose-swap.html

Why not indeed? Would be win/win for everyone apart from Real Madrid

Couldnt agree more. Article is spot on :good:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4095285/Why-not-a-Wenger-n-Jose-swap.html

Why not indeed? Would be win/win for everyone apart from Arsenal
:gp:


Wenger needs to GTFO. He is bringing the club down every season..

:doh:


Couldnt agree more. Article is spot on :good:

Any article written by the sun is not spot on but if thats the standard you like good for you

[Olivier's xmas twist]

One little terminal problem. The board. Why would they swap a manager who agrees on their stance in terms of underfunding the team and replace him with a man who would demand the changes we've needed for years? It can't happen while the current board is here.

why don't we swap Kroenke for someone who gives a shite about Arsenal, should really be the article.

[Özim]

Other clubs get rich owners and they pump money into the team and try to win stuff, we do the same and they just sit there and put no money in and have no real ambitions to be successful.

That's what you get when people like PHW get their way.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Other clubs get rich owners and they pump money into the team and try to win stuff, we do the same and they just sit there and put no money in and have no real ambitions to be successful.

That's what you get when people like PHW get their way.

we don't need someone like city who will waste millions because they have it, we need someone who is ambitious about the club. The American was only ever going to care about his pockets because thats what they all do, we should have gone for the russian, but at the time most of the fans never wanted him, he was doddgy and slimey etc. IMO he is not much better but would not hurt to see what he has to offer us.

[Özim]

we don't need someone like city who will waste millions because they have it, we need someone who is ambitious about the club. The American was only ever going to care about his pockets because thats what they all do, we should have gone for the russian, but at the time most of the fans never wanted him, he was doddgy and slimey etc. IMO he is not much better but would not hurt to see what he has to offer us.
I agree, ambition is what it comes down to...I can't believe we settled on someone who's not willing to invest anything into the team, what an awful decision.

We needed someone interested in the football side, someone who would want to see us win and isn't just happy to sit on his investment.

[Fats]

I agree, ambition is what it comes down to...I can't believe we settled on someone who's not willing to invest anything into the team, what an awful decision.

We needed someone interested in the football side, someone who would want to see us win and isn't just happy to sit on his investment.

Having said that I am not so sure Wenger, even with a Man City type budget he would buy a League winning side.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Having said that I am not so sure Wenger, even with a Man City type budget he would buy a League winning side.

When you say buy i hope you mean with the right players etc not buy as in the city scum are doing lol

[Niall_Quinn]

I agree, ambition is what it comes down to...I can't believe we settled on someone who's not willing to invest anything into the team, what an awful decision.

We needed someone interested in the football side, someone who would want to see us win and isn't just happy to sit on his investment.

LOL, what a joker you are. Surely you know by now that football is all about the balance sheet and the share price? Get with the times. How do you expect the shareholders to milk the club if they spend all the money on building teams that can win shit? You do realise we have been the balance sheet champions for the last 5 years! :trophy: A dynasty and you are complaining. As the old saying goes, you can please the shareholders all the time but never the fans any of the time.

[KSE Comedy Club]

:gp:



:doh:



Any article written by the sun is not spot on but if thats the standard you like good for you

Nothing wrong with the article at all, doesnt matter where its written.

Jose is a better football manager than Arsene, period, and I would like to see him as our next manager because of this.

[KSE Comedy Club]

we don't need someone like city who will waste millions because they have it, we need someone who is ambitious about the club. The American was only ever going to care about his pockets because thats what they all do, we should have gone for the russian, but at the time most of the fans never wanted him, he was doddgy and slimey etc. IMO he is not much better but would not hurt to see what he has to offer us.

I agree, Usmanov was the better choice footballistically speaking.

At least he seems to want the club to be successful.

[Niall_Quinn]

I agree, Usmanov was the better choice footballistically speaking.

At least he seems to want the club to be successful.

Probably has a lot more to do with the fact he stole and embezzled all his money, has a lot of it, but doesn't place as much value on it as somebody like Kroenke who had to earn* it.

* As in legally steal it using sanctioned corporate corruption. But it's harder work than just killing people for it nonetheless.