Arsenal's Decline: Are there any easy answers?

[Xhaka Can’t]

While I support a change in Manager, I think the solution to our problems are more complex than that. I fail to see how anything can possibly change to a material degree following the strategy our Chief Executive espouses.

We are in the wilderness and are likely to remain there as long as we have a disinterested owner, a weak CEO, a Board that is out of touch with anything unrelated to financial gain and a Manager for whom the game has moved on and passed him by.

Leaving out hysteria, what do you actually think needs to happen for the Club to move forward?

[Letters]

I’m just fed up of us being so ordinary. RvP is the only reason we’re not deeply mid-table and he will leave in the summer if he knows what’s good for him. He’d be stupid not to.

I remember us being ordinary before of course but I wasn’t paying £1500 a year to watch them being so ordinary then. We weren’t in a shiny new stadium which we were promised would allow us to compete with Europe’s elite. Instead for years we have replaced top class players with average ones. We all knew there would be a bit of belt tightening when the new stadium was being built and you can’t legislate for billionaire owners throwing trucks of money around. I accept we can’t compete with City and I wouldn’t want us to try. I don’t want to play that game where any achievement is marred with the knowledge of how it’s achieved. But I do expect us to compete with Spurs. In fact, Spurs shouldn’t be anywhere near us. We have a far bigger stadium, a far bigger global fan base, a far bigger income in every way. We have CL football to offer players, a manager who is respected around the world, a legacy of (fairly) recent success. There is no way that a team like Spurs with far less resources than us should be allowed to catch up with and then overtake us. It’s embarrassing mismanagement from top to bottom. I don’t think replacing Wenger will make a whole lot of difference because we’ll still have the same board who are clearly complicit in it all. Were they not they’d have sacked him years ago. They’re clearly happy with his policy of minimising expenditure and maximizing income and, to an extent, Wenger has done well to keep us top 4 till now. But there’s only so long you can go on replacing top players with average ones before it starts to seriously hurt and we’ve reached that point now. We already had last season to an extent but then in a car crash of a summer we went and sold our 2 best midfielders and bought a few decent but not really world class players (even then it was only last minute panic-buying, were it not for the Old Trafford debacle you have to wonder whether we’d even have done that).

Wenger has been far too patient with players who just aren’t up to it. Theo is one of them, but there are others. At our pomp we were a terrific side, arguably the best ever PL side. It was a joy to watch and it’s sad if Wenger’s legacy is anything other than that side. And I knew it wouldn’t last. It’s not realistic to expect us to sustain that. But to see us fall from that to being so…well, I’ll say it again, so ordinary. It’s sad and infuriating. It is, as Oscar Wilde (or was it Didier Drogba) once said “a disgrace, a f***ing disgrace”. The atmosphere on Saturday is going to be…interesting. People’s patience has finally run out and if we go in at half time 0-0 or, worse, behind, then it’s going to get ugly. Our success has raised expectations but so has raising the ticket prices. And they haven’t gone up by 10% or even doubled. I used to pay 2 or 3 hundred a season, now it’s £1500. If they raise them this summer then it’ll be the final “screw you” to the fans. Were it not for dad wanting to go and me valuing the time I spend with him now as he gets older and confuseder they wouldn’t see me for dust. They could have thrown us a bone in the January window. Something, just something, we could maybe get a bit excited about. But no. So on we plod in the battle against mid-table. Spurs are gone, they’re a much, much better side than us. Top 4 is just about do-able but only because of other team’s ordinariness and right now I wouldn’t back us in that race.

In brief, balls to it. Balls to it all.

[Kano]

While I support a change in Manager, I think the solution to our problems are more complex than that. I fail to see how anything can possibly change to a material degree following the strategy our Chief Executive espouses.

We are in the wilderness and are likely to remain there as long as we have a disinterested owner, a weak CEO, a Board that is out of touch with anything unrelated to financial gain and a Manager for whom the game has moved on and passed him by.

Leaving out hysteria, what do you actually think needs to happen for the Club to move forward?

change the manager, that will be the first step.

anything behind that is not going to change, the owners are here to stay for the foreseeable future but at least with a set of new ideas and a refreshment of the approach by the team, we will at least see something to get behind.

i go to every home game but will never boo as i don't see the point. the most frustrating thing is that however inevitable it is that a manager will come to the end of his days, name calling etc is a crass and disgusting way to see our most historic manager out of the door. frustrating he may be but in his mind he is doing the best for the team and deserves a far better send off than people labelling him a buffoon/cunt/incompetent.

[Grebbo]

If you look at the financial resources of the competition the best possible outcome for our club for the foreseeable future is 4th place.

Sure, you'll get the odd season where you can compete (see Spurs this season) but ultimately it's unrealistic to think that Arsenal can compete for the Premier League. Even when we had an amazing team (and FAR less competition) we never won back to back leagues. We only won three league titles in ten years when our only competition was one team - Man U.

I am content with only competing for fourth. I am a realist.

What boils my piss though is this cretin of a manager. We have the worst away defence on the whole of the Premier League!! Just think about that stat!! A worse away defence than Wigan!!

We have the same problems EVERY season and they're NEVER fixed.

[KSE Comedy Club]

We could do a raindance, that might have some effect?

[LDG]

Well, the first thing that needs to happen, is that the people in charge of our club (or should be in charge), the board, need to get their priorities right.

You can't take with one hand and then stick the other hand behind your back, and forget what this "business" is. It's a football club, built on years of tradition. It was built by the fans. It was built by local communities, not fucking Americans or Russians.

The board need to then consider what is best, not just commercially, but "footballistically". If they are in charge and own the club, then one of the top priorities has got to be the consideration of the football side of things. In that respect, they have to have the final say on who runs the team. Who picks the players, and who works the transfer market.

What does the club need footballistically? A top level manager. With experience, know-how, astuteness in the transfer market, abilty to man-manage, tactical nouse and desire to win.

Who is out there? There are plenty of good managers around, but we need to be careful, because only a select few are capable of managing a big club.

I would be in favour of Syn's suggestion. A young manager, who has balls, who can think tactically, enough to change games, and put him with Wenger. Someone who can challenge the stubborn git. Someone who will eventually succeed him.

We need Arsenal back. We need the tradition back. We need someone to show our players what it means to play for Arsenal.

We as fans need respect.

And we need to spend some fucking money.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

While I support a change in Manager, I think the solution to our problems are more complex than that. I fail to see how anything can possibly change to a material degree following the strategy our Chief Executive espouses.

We are in the wilderness and are likely to remain there as long as we have a disinterested owner, a weak CEO, a Board that is out of touch with anything unrelated to financial gain and a Manager for whom the game has moved on and passed him by.

Leaving out hysteria, what do you actually think needs to happen for the Club to move forward?

Alot needs to happen for the club to move forward in all honesty. As much i think AW needs to leave, his replacement won't change much at the club because it won't be no top class manager people on here think it will be. We need to see a summer fo quality coming in, no more lies or excues or silly comments from the board.

Think winning the fa cup is another way to move the club forward, it will lift the players and lift the manger. Hopefully the winning feeling will spur then on next season. However if they went on to win the CL (unlikely as it might be) alot would change for the better, AW would not be so obssessed with it abd out the league before it etc.

[KSE Comedy Club]

If you look at the financial resources of the competition the best possible outcome for our club for the foreseeable future is 4th place.

Sure, you'll get the odd season where you can compete (see Spurs this season) but ultimately it's unrealistic to think that Arsenal can compete for the Premier League. Even when we had an amazing team (and FAR less competition) we never won back to back leagues. We only won three league titles in ten years when our only competition was one team - Man U.

I am content with only competing for fourth. I am a realist.

What boils my piss though is this cretin of a manager. We have the worst away defence on the whole of the Premier League!! Just think about that stat!! A worse away defence than Wigan!!

We have the same problems EVERY season and they're NEVER fixed.

Why shouldnt we be able to compete every season though?

Why couldnt we become like Man U and win back to back titles or win 19 league titles?

We can afford to buy quality players, but instead we buy cheap youngsters and shower them with high wages.

What is it with this inferiority complex that some gooners have? With the right manager and 3 or 4 quality signings, we could be up there competing every season and winning titles/trophies.

Its the current rut that we are stuck in that makes it seem impossible, its not the actual fact or impossibility of it.

[Grebbo]

Why shouldnt we be able to compete every season though?

Why couldnt we become like Man U and win back to back titles or win 19 league titles?

We can afford to buy quality players, but instead we buy cheap youngsters and shower them with high wages.

What is it with this inferiority complex that some gooners have? With the right managerand some 2 or 3 quality signings, we could be up there competing every season and winning titles/trophies.

Its the current rut that we are stuck in that makes it seem impossible, its not the actual fact or impossibility of it.

Arsenal FC only makes a profit due to player trading. Look at the accounts.

We can compete with Man U now and then but you then have City, Chavs, Pool - all with bigger budgets as well.

It's better to be realistic or you'll forever be disappointed supporting Arsenal for the foreseeable future. The glory days are long gone.

That doesn;t mean we should have the worst away defence in the league though.

[Letters]

We do need to be realistic. But it's not unrealistic to think we should be doing better than Spurs.
Spurs! :lol:
They shouldn't be anywhere near us, it's embarrassing mismanagement from top to bottom that they've been allowed to catch up with and now overtake us.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We do need to be realistic. But it's not unrealistic to think we should be doing better than Spurs.
Spurs! :lol:
They shouldn't be anywhere near us, it's embarrassing mismanagement from top to bottom that they've been allowed to catch up with and now overtake us.

Problem is one day they would have anyway, we would not have been above them forever its just happend sooner then most would like, same as City/UT.

[Kano]

We do need to be realistic. But it's not unrealistic to think we should be doing better than Spurs.
Spurs! :lol:
They shouldn't be anywhere near us, it's embarrassing mismanagement from top to bottom that they've been allowed to catch up with and now overtake us.

well no, not really. spurs have one of the best midfields in the prem, so even if we had a better depth of squad, they would still be in the position they are now.

their current position in the table has nothing to do with ours.

[Letters]

I don't care that City are above us. They've blundered their way to the top through sheer weight of spending.
We can't compete with them, I wouldn't want us to try.
But Spurs? They don't have anywhere near the income or resources we do, they haven't had a shiny stadium or the CL football to entice players.
There's no way they should be able to compete with us much less now be way above us.

[Flavs]

As soon as rich men realised that Wenger was very good at turning profit we began to die as a football club its as simple as that. Our decline began IMO when Ashley Cole was sold, don't get me wrong i would rather listen to his wife's albums than have him here but that was the start. Here was a boy who was truly home grown by Wenger and then sold for a big fee (and bloody Gallas) As soon as that happened little pound signs started appearing.

Since then we have seen young talent after young talent come to the club, get better and be sold and then replaced with...more young talent, all while making vast amounts of money for the board. Look now at the team, the Ox, Ramsey, Wilshere, Gibbs, Jenko its all a bit familiar, each time we look like losing a bit of revenue one of them will be sold. This isn't the managers fault and wont change unless 1) the board change tack 2) We get a footballing man in as director of football.

However

Are the players on the pitch being utilised in the best possible way? No absolutely not and that is why Wenger must go. The tactics are poor, the mental approach is shite, the motivation is irregular at best and the substitutions are just bizarre. Our game has become so predictable its almost embarrassing at times. Anyone who didn't expect Bolton to nick a later winner last night hasn't been watching Arsenal for the last 5 years. The concern i have is that Wenger does leave he will move upstairs which means nothing will change at all.

When we played Swansea i wondered what would happen if we swapped managers, who would be better off and i think we all know the answer to that. I cant really believe the media still use the bullshit stories about Real Madrid wanting Wenger? The sort of manager they need is a completely different beast to Wenger. People have spoken about Spurs passing us, the simple reason is that Levy and redknapp are considerably better than PHW and Wenger right now.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Arsenal FC only makes a profit due to player trading. Look at the accounts.

We can compete with Man U now and then but you then have City, Chavs, Pool - all with bigger budgets as well.

It's better to be realistic or you'll forever be disappointed supporting Arsenal for the foreseeable future. The glory days are long gone.

That doesn;t mean we should have the worst away defence in the league though.

In your opinion of course.

Im think its perfectly realistic to suggest that we can and should be able to compete for the league every season.

Despite the lack of performance at the moment, we do have the basics of a title challenging team.

If we were to add 2-3 quality, experienced players and had a manager that would drill the defence, motivate the players and instill a winning mentality, change tactics and make substitutions based on what was happening on the pitch and study each team more intricately before we play them each week, then we would be up there challenging.

That has to be the starting point.

We are better than 4th place, Wenger and the board have spent the last 6 years making it seem like we arent.

[Marc Overmars]

The transfer policy is the biggest disgrace, along with misplaced faith in a team that you can bet your house on will disappoint in one way or another.

Nothing wrong with being self sufficient.

There's everything wrong with not making the most of what we actually generate as a club.

We need a modern manager in now to take us forward. Who that is I don't know, but just because there isn't an obvious solution doesn't mean one doesn't exist.

[LDG]

In your opinion of course.

Im think its perfectly realistic to suggest that we can and should be able to compete for the league every season.

Despite the lack of performance at the moment, we do have the basics of a title challenging team.

If we were to add 2-3 quality, experienced players and had a manager that would drill the defence, motivate the players and instill a winning mentality, change tactics and make substitutions based on what was happening on the pitch and study each team more intricately before we play them each week, then we would be up there challenging.

That has to be the starting point.

We are better than 4th place, Wenger and the board have spent the last 6 years making it seem like we arent.

True.

I agree with this.

To add a little if I may:

I'd be content if were using our resources to try the best we possibly can on the football field. Yes, we have the basics tobe able to challenge for the league, no doubt.

What I want to see, is the club being ambitious enough to "try" and do the best we can. At the moment, we're not. And THAT is where all the frustration and anger is directed.

Anyone with an ounce of sense can spot when we're doing the right things, even if we fail.

[Niall_Quinn]

As soon as rich men realised that Wenger was very good at turning profit we began to die as a football club its as simple as that. Our decline began IMO when Ashley Cole was sold, don't get me wrong i would rather listen to his wife's albums than have him here but that was the start. Here was a boy who was truly home grown by Wenger and then sold for a big fee (and bloody Gallas) As soon as that happened little pound signs started appearing.

Since then we have seen young talent after young talent come to the club, get better and be sold and then replaced with...more young talent, all while making vast amounts of money for the board. Look now at the team, the Ox, Ramsey, Wilshere, Gibbs, Jenko its all a bit familiar, each time we look like losing a bit of revenue one of them will be sold. This isn't the managers fault and wont change unless 1) the board change tack 2) We get a footballing man in as director of football.

However

Are the players on the pitch being utilised in the best possible way? No absolutely not and that is why Wenger must go. The tactics are poor, the mental approach is shite, the motivation is irregular at best and the substitutions are just bizarre. Our game has become so predictable its almost embarrassing at times. Anyone who didn't expect Bolton to nick a later winner last night hasn't been watching Arsenal for the last 5 years. The concern i have is that Wenger does leave he will move upstairs which means nothing will change at all.

When we played Swansea i wondered what would happen if we swapped managers, who would be better off and i think we all know the answer to that. I cant really believe the media still use the bullshit stories about Real Madrid wanting Wenger? The sort of manager they need is a completely different beast to Wenger. People have spoken about Spurs passing us, the simple reason is that Levy and redknapp are considerably better than PHW and Wenger right now.

:gp:

In my opinion Wenger is both a miracle worker AND a stubborn incompetent in some key areas. It's like a brilliant brain surgeon who is also an alcoholic. You just can't believe an intelligent man would have such a fundamental weakness that undermines everything else he does. Mind you, he's not had much help. Everyone heard what that Gazidis bloke had to say. He's delusional in terms of football, a top grade bean counter maybe but totally unsuited to the job he has if what he says is true. He should be running a sporting goods store or something like that, where the sport itself is somebody else's affair and he is simply left to shift the merchandise.

I see Wenger's role as close to impossible in many ways. Picture a guy at the foot of a mountain. Somebody rolls a rock down the mountain (say the sale of Fabreags), it's Wenger's job to stop the rock hitting the bottom and push the thing back up. Meanwhile some other cunt rolls a second rock down. Now Wenger has to catch that too. He has to keep all the rocks far enough up the metaphorical mountain and he's done it for 14 years. That's the miracle part and that's why we shouldn't be trying to humiliate the guy just because the odd rock slips past him. I doubt anyone could do better given the circumstances.

However, he has this horrible tendency to ignore one or two rocks all the fucking time. He sees the rock perched, ready to be pushed. He sees it making its way down the mountain, gathering pace. And he just fucking ignores it. Why? There's some sort of blind spot. He certainly deserves criticism for that, but there are people blaming him for rolling the rocks down in the first place. It's the board doing that, not Wenger.

Those bastards took every last penny of the money Kroenke invested and they put it in their fucking pockets. Some of them have put fuck all into this club so even a tenner would have been a significant return for them. Not one of the cunts thought, I've done fucking well here, I'll kick half back. Even in terms of a long term, favourable loan. Kroenke takes a lot of heat but they sure made him jump through hoops and they cleaned him out for the maximum amount. That has put a lot of pressure on him to perform too, and he's a business man not a football man so he's going to do what he does best. That's why he loves Wenger, who else is going to faithfully push those fucking rocks up the hill that those greedy bastards rolled down? Kroenke might come good yet - he might. But he has a lot of damage to repair first. Like the fucked up commercial deals we signed just to grease the wheels for a stadium move that now turns out to have been about nothing more that a few greedy men cashing out. We know about those cunts and what they have done and they deserve to be despise for it. We don't know for sure about Kroenke yet, time will tell.

So the key goal to getting back on track is to burn the leeches off the club, stop them sucking blood. Get them out. Let Kroenke do his thing and see if that's worth a damn. He won't be going anywhere in the short term so we can only pray he has the club's interests at heart - not because he's an Arsenal fan but because he's smarter than the cunts he's replacing and realises that performance on the pitch will make it easier to perform at the bank.

I don't think Wenger is going anywhere either. Why would Kroenke remove one of the few foundations he can rely on? A replacement manager would have to be as good as Wenger at managing a much broader range of duties than most managers are exposed to. He'd also have to offer tangible advantages to the team on the pitch. Somebody like Mourinho could easily accomplish the latter, he's a much more astute manager than Wenger in that respect. Some of the other names suggested would be eaten alive though. Moyes, Coyle, the ultimate yes man Ancellotti. Give me a break. Maybe they could get the team played better right up until the team packed its bags and headed out the door. Those players are staying for a reason and I'm betting with 90% of them it's not down to the love of the club. More like the inflated wages we complain about. There must be individual deals with certain players in place while we wait to come out of the darkness. Is that why Theo plays all the time? Does her have a deal to keep him at the club? Is that why the captaincy is treated like a lollipop to be passed around? If true, that's what a new manager faces. A new manager could see us go from top 4-6 to absolutely nowhere fast as relationships break down. I'm speculating, sure, but there has to be something going on behind the scenes that explains the inexplicable failure to correct what we can see in public.

So the answer, purge the greedy fuckers that have robbed the club. Clear the path for Kroenke to see what his plan is. As unpopular as it may be, keep Wenger until this stage of whatever plan they have in place is concluded. And tough it out. Oh and everytime you see PHW or the rest of his cronies from now on - spit on them.

[Letters]

:gp:

In my opinion Wenger is both a miracle worker AND a stubborn incompetent in some key areas. It's like a brilliant brain surgeon who is also an alcoholic. You just can't believe an intelligent man would have such a fundamental weakness that undermines everything else he does. Mind you, he's not had much help. Everyone heard what that Gazidis bloke had to say. He's delusional in terms of football, a top grade bean counter maybe but totally unsuited to the job he has if what he says is true. He should be running a sporting goods store or something like that, where the sport itself is somebody else's affair and he is simply left to shift the merchandise.

I see Wenger's role as close to impossible in many ways. Picture a guy at the foot of a mountain. Somebody rolls a rock down the mountain (say the sale of Fabreags), it's Wenger's job to stop the rock hitting the bottom and push the thing back up. Meanwhile some other cunt rolls a second rock down. Now Wenger has to catch that too. He has to keep all the rocks far enough up the metaphorical mountain and he's done it for 14 years. That's the miracle part and that's why we shouldn't be trying to humiliate the guy just because the odd rock slips past him. I doubt anyone could do better given the circumstances.

However, he has this horrible tendency to ignore one or two rocks all the fucking time. He sees the rock perched, ready to be pushed. He sees it making its way down the mountain, gathering pace. And he just fucking ignores it. Why? There's some sort of blind spot. He certainly deserves criticism for that, but there are people blaming him for rolling the rocks down in the first place. It's the board doing that, not Wenger.

Those bastards took every last penny of the money Kroenke invested and they put it in their fucking pockets. Some of them have put fuck all into this club so even a tenner would have been a significant return for them. Not one of the cunts thought, I've done fucking well here, I'll kick half back. Even in terms of a long term, favourable loan. Kroenke takes a lot of heat but they sure made him jump through hoops and they cleaned him out for the maximum amount. That has put a lot of pressure on him to perform too, and he's a business man not a football man so he's going to do what he does best. That's why he loves Wenger, who else is going to faithfully push those fucking rocks up the hill that those greedy bastards rolled down? Kroenke might come good yet - he might. But he has a lot of damage to repair first. Like the fucked up commercial deals we signed just to grease the wheels for a stadium move that now turns out to have been about nothing more that a few greedy men cashing out. We know about those cunts and what they have done and they deserve to be despise for it. We don't know for sure about Kroenke yet, time will tell.

So the key goal to getting back on track is to burn the leeches off the club, stop them sucking blood. Get them out. Let Kroenke do his thing and see if that's worth a damn. He won't be going anywhere in the short term so we can only pray he has the club's interests at heart - not because he's an Arsenal fan but because he's smarter than the cunts he's replacing and realises that performance on the pitch will make it easier to perform at the bank.

I don't think Wenger is going anywhere either. Why would Kroenke remove one of the few foundations he can rely on? A replacement manager would have to be as good as Wenger at managing a much broader range of duties than most managers are exposed to. He'd also have to offer tangible advantages to the team on the pitch. Somebody like Mourinho could easily accomplish the latter, he's a much more astute manager than Wenger in that respect. Some of the other names suggested would be eaten alive though. Moyes, Coyle, the ultimate yes man Ancellotti. Give me a break. Maybe they could get the team played better right up until the team packed its bags and headed out the door. Those players are staying for a reason and I'm betting with 90% of them it's not down to the love of the club. More like the inflated wages we complain about. There must be individual deals with certain players in place while we wait to come out of the darkness. Is that why Theo plays all the time? Does her have a deal to keep him at the club? Is that why the captaincy is treated like a lollipop to be passed around? If true, that's what a new manager faces. A new manager could see us go from top 4-6 to absolutely nowhere fast as relationships break down. I'm speculating, sure, but there has to be something going on behind the scenes that explains the inexplicable failure to correct what we can see in public.

So the answer, purge the greedy fuckers that have robbed the club. Clear the path for Kroenke to see what his plan is. As unpopular as it may be, keep Wenger until this stage of whatever plan they have in place is concluded. And tough it out. Oh and everytime you see PHW or the rest of his cronies from now on - spit on them.

:gp:

NQ :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

As soon as rich men realised that Wenger was very good at turning profit we began to die as a football club its as simple as that. Our decline began IMO when Ashley Cole was sold, don't get me wrong i would rather listen to his wife's albums than have him here but that was the start. Here was a boy who was truly home grown by Wenger and then sold for a big fee (and bloody Gallas) As soon as that happened little pound signs started appearing.

Since then we have seen young talent after young talent come to the club, get better and be sold and then replaced with...more young talent, all while making vast amounts of money for the board. Look now at the team, the Ox, Ramsey, Wilshere, Gibbs, Jenko its all a bit familiar, each time we look like losing a bit of revenue one of them will be sold. This isn't the managers fault and wont change unless 1) the board change tack 2) We get a footballing man in as director of football.

However

Are the players on the pitch being utilised in the best possible way? No absolutely not and that is why Wenger must go. The tactics are poor, the mental approach is shite, the motivation is irregular at best and the substitutions are just bizarre. Our game has become so predictable its almost embarrassing at times. Anyone who didn't expect Bolton to nick a later winner last night hasn't been watching Arsenal for the last 5 years. The concern i have is that Wenger does leave he will move upstairs which means nothing will change at all.

When we played Swansea i wondered what would happen if we swapped managers, who would be better off and i think we all know the answer to that. I cant really believe the media still use the bullshit stories about Real Madrid wanting Wenger? The sort of manager they need is a completely different beast to Wenger. People have spoken about Spurs passing us, the simple reason is that Levy and redknapp are considerably better than PHW and Wenger right now.

:gp:

Agree about cashley

[Ollie the Optimist]

NQ has it spot on, that rock analgy is the best way to describe wenger here imo.


wonder what would happen if the board fucked up (as they should) and we keep wenger and actually have some money. would pressure be on him to deliver, would that affect players like theo who have to perform as the club has to win. i agree, if board go, keep wenger on for one more season, if that fails, let him go (i think he only has next season on his contract so up to him to win a new one)

[Olivier's xmas twist]

NQ has it spot on, that rock analgy is the best way to describe wenger here imo.


wonder what would happen if the board fucked up (as they should) and we keep wenger and actually have some money. would pressure be on him to deliver, would that affect players like theo who have to perform as the club has to win. i agree, if board go, keep wenger on for one more season, if that fails, let him go (i think he only has next season on his contract so up to him to win a new one)

you mean fucked off?

Then we will see what is going on, if a new manager chucks money at AW and he says no i won't spend it then you know its been him all along. However if he does spend it the right way then you know its the board who fecked up, either way we won't know till either the board or AW leave.

[LDG]

:gp:

In my opinion Wenger is both a miracle worker AND a stubborn incompetent in some key areas. It's like a brilliant brain surgeon who is also an alcoholic. You just can't believe an intelligent man would have such a fundamental weakness that undermines everything else he does. Mind you, he's not had much help. Everyone heard what that Gazidis bloke had to say. He's delusional in terms of football, a top grade bean counter maybe but totally unsuited to the job he has if what he says is true. He should be running a sporting goods store or something like that, where the sport itself is somebody else's affair and he is simply left to shift the merchandise.

I see Wenger's role as close to impossible in many ways. Picture a guy at the foot of a mountain. Somebody rolls a rock down the mountain (say the sale of Fabreags), it's Wenger's job to stop the rock hitting the bottom and push the thing back up. Meanwhile some other cunt rolls a second rock down. Now Wenger has to catch that too. He has to keep all the rocks far enough up the metaphorical mountain and he's done it for 14 years. That's the miracle part and that's why we shouldn't be trying to humiliate the guy just because the odd rock slips past him. I doubt anyone could do better given the circumstances.

However, he has this horrible tendency to ignore one or two rocks all the fucking time. He sees the rock perched, ready to be pushed. He sees it making its way down the mountain, gathering pace. And he just fucking ignores it. Why? There's some sort of blind spot. He certainly deserves criticism for that, but there are people blaming him for rolling the rocks down in the first place. It's the board doing that, not Wenger.

Those bastards took every last penny of the money Kroenke invested and they put it in their fucking pockets. Some of them have put fuck all into this club so even a tenner would have been a significant return for them. Not one of the cunts thought, I've done fucking well here, I'll kick half back. Even in terms of a long term, favourable loan. Kroenke takes a lot of heat but they sure made him jump through hoops and they cleaned him out for the maximum amount. That has put a lot of pressure on him to perform too, and he's a business man not a football man so he's going to do what he does best. That's why he loves Wenger, who else is going to faithfully push those fucking rocks up the hill that those greedy bastards rolled down? Kroenke might come good yet - he might. But he has a lot of damage to repair first. Like the fucked up commercial deals we signed just to grease the wheels for a stadium move that now turns out to have been about nothing more that a few greedy men cashing out. We know about those cunts and what they have done and they deserve to be despise for it. We don't know for sure about Kroenke yet, time will tell.

So the key goal to getting back on track is to burn the leeches off the club, stop them sucking blood. Get them out. Let Kroenke do his thing and see if that's worth a damn. He won't be going anywhere in the short term so we can only pray he has the club's interests at heart - not because he's an Arsenal fan but because he's smarter than the cunts he's replacing and realises that performance on the pitch will make it easier to perform at the bank.

I don't think Wenger is going anywhere either. Why would Kroenke remove one of the few foundations he can rely on? A replacement manager would have to be as good as Wenger at managing a much broader range of duties than most managers are exposed to. He'd also have to offer tangible advantages to the team on the pitch. Somebody like Mourinho could easily accomplish the latter, he's a much more astute manager than Wenger in that respect. Some of the other names suggested would be eaten alive though. Moyes, Coyle, the ultimate yes man Ancellotti. Give me a break. Maybe they could get the team played better right up until the team packed its bags and headed out the door. Those players are staying for a reason and I'm betting with 90% of them it's not down to the love of the club. More like the inflated wages we complain about. There must be individual deals with certain players in place while we wait to come out of the darkness. Is that why Theo plays all the time? Does her have a deal to keep him at the club? Is that why the captaincy is treated like a lollipop to be passed around? If true, that's what a new manager faces. A new manager could see us go from top 4-6 to absolutely nowhere fast as relationships break down. I'm speculating, sure, but there has to be something going on behind the scenes that explains the inexplicable failure to correct what we can see in public.

So the answer, purge the greedy fuckers that have robbed the club. Clear the path for Kroenke to see what his plan is. As unpopular as it may be, keep Wenger until this stage of whatever plan they have in place is concluded. And tough it out. Oh and everytime you see PHW or the rest of his cronies from now on - spit on them.

Top top toperty top posting, son.

Have a biscuit.

Seriously. Bang on mate.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Wenger is responsible for what happens on the pitch, not the board.

He gets the tactics wrong, he makes shit subs, etc.

[Flavs]

Thing is the board are coining it so why would they leave?

Stan can sit in America combing his tash and counting his dollars

Ivan gets to buy his snappy suits while doing fuck all else

Wenger gets to stand in the artillery range every game while the others sit around laughing at his constant beatings.

But that still doesnt excuse the endless shit we see on the pitch

[LDG]

Thing is the board are coining it so why would they leave?

Stan can sit in America combing his tash and counting his dollars

Ivan gets to buy his snappy suits while doing fuck all else

Wenger gets to stand in the artillery range every game while the others sit around laughing at his constant beatings.

But that still doesnt excuse the endless shit we see on the pitch

They have a 12 month lock down period, do the current board. They had to stay in place.

Not sure when that time is up (I'm guessing 12 months after Stan bought the club??), so hopefully, as NQ puts more eloquently than I, he'll come in and kick the cunts out.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wenger is responsible for what happens on the pitch, not the board.

He gets the tactics wrong, he makes shit subs, etc.

They employ him simples our owner is happy to sit in Yank land and watch this go down. no one from the board has ever said its unnaccetable the way we are performing not even out chairman.

all they care about is their pockets. Its ok AW can take the blame for them too.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Thing is the board are coining it so why would they leave?

Stan can sit in America combing his tash and counting his dollars

Ivan gets to buy his snappy suits while doing fuck all else

Wenger gets to stand in the artillery range every game while the others sit around laughing at his constant beatings.

But that still doesnt excuse the endless shit we see on the pitch

Exactly :gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger is responsible for what happens on the pitch, not the board.

He gets the tactics wrong, he makes shit subs, etc.

Yeah he does. But that's only part of the picture. Any thoughts of replacing Wenger had better tally with Kroenke's requirements because he's not going to risk half a billion quid just to keep the fans happy.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Yeah he does. But that's only part of the picture. Any thoughts of replacing Wenger had better tally with Kroenke's requirements because he's not going to risk half a billion quid just to keep the fans happy.

What happens if 'they' don't get the rewards of Champions League money (which Wenger, in his own words called compulsory)? Do they then embezzle it out of the £40 million or whatever it is for finishing in the top 8 and continue as if nothing has changed?

[Niall_Quinn]

They have a 12 month lock down period, do the current board.

I wonder who insisted on that? Whether it was Kroenke who thought it would be good for continuity or whether those cunts are so insanely greedy they demanded a cherry on the sugar on top of the whole fucking cake?

[KSE Comedy Club]

They employ him simples our owner is happy to sit in Yank land and watch this go down. no one from the board has ever said its unnaccetable the way we are performing not even out chairman.

all they care about is their pockets. Its ok AW can take the blame for them too.

Yes, but again, that is a seperate issue.

We have the money/board issue and the football issue.

Whilst they do relate to each other to some extent, Wenger is the man who is is responsible for the football issue.

I dont buy this idea of 'poor wenger, he's doing his best but his hands are tied' its bullshit. The man has done as much as he can and has taken the club as far as he possibly can, but you have to face the fact that he isnt one of the best managers in the world.

[Flavs]

Something else i dont understand as well, Wenger and the club always claim that if the right player becomes available we would sign him, we have a world class scouting network, academies and feeder teams all over the world and a manager who apparently knows something about every player there is.

We also get told that Wenger only likes certain players and that we wont buy a certain type of player under any circumstances, now i presume when we look at a player we judge them technically, physically and mentally as well as financially. If all that is the case how come we end up with players like Arshavin and Chamakh? Players of undoubted physical or technical ability but who have the mental application of a turnip? I watched Arshavin play in Russia and at the Euros and he was mindblowing, a bit of a cunt yes, but a great talent yet we barely see it. Chamakh was outstanding in France, a real danger yet here? Same goes for Reyes and Hleb and many others as well?

Also why do we end up with the Adebayor and Nasri types? Who are very good players but so easily swayed by their "advisors" they end up taking our money and running?

[Niall_Quinn]

What happens if 'they' don't get the rewards of Champions League money (which Wenger, in his own words called compulsory)? Do they then embezzle it out of the £40 million or whatever it is for finishing in the top 8 and continue as if nothing has changed?

I think a lot of financial shenanigans have already gone on. Our transfer pot is never used, we make profits year on year and yet the pot is always the same - that fucking £30mill that never materialises. They also fudge the wage figures don't they, like including the fucking Christmas party clown and the milkman's bonus in the figures to make it look like we spend with the best. We never get a straight answer from these guys so we could only guess. I bet their fucking bonuses are tied to the performance on the balance sheet rather than wins on the pitch though. Some might say that's right because that's their job. But that's where the whole problem lies as far as I'm concerned. They have no incentive to do what's best for the club in entirety, including the football and the fans on which everything is based long term. They have their money now and all the rest is gravy. So flogging RvP and diverting cash to prop up the the books doesn't cost them a damn as they don't have to be here in 2 or 5 or 10 years. That's why they can say success on the pitch would be "nice" but isn't strictly necessary. The guy actually said that. Then Gazidis talks about City being jealous. Jealous of what? Not success on the pitch, that's for sure. He had to be talking about balance sheets again. Profit versus loss. Is Kroenke going along with this or is he just letting them slide out the door before he rolls his sleeves up? I don't know, they don't tell us shit.

[LDG]

Something else i dont understand as well, Wenger and the club always claim that if the right player becomes available we would sign him, we have a world class scouting network, academies and feeder teams all over the world and a manager who apparently knows something about every player there is.

We also get told that Wenger only likes certain players and that we wont buy a certain type of player under any circumstances, now i presume when we look at a player we judge them technically, physically and mentally as well as financially. If all that is the case how come we end up with players like Arshavin and Chamakh? Players of undoubted physical or technical ability but who have the mental application of a turnip? I watched Arshavin play in Russia and at the Euros and he was mindblowing, a bit of a cunt yes, but a great talent yet we barely see it. Chamakh was outstanding in France, a real danger yet here? Same goes for Reyes and Hleb and many others as well?

Also why do we end up with the Adebayor and Nasri types? Who are very good players but so easily swayed by their "advisors" they end up taking our money and running?

Arshavin can still be good. And he was when he joined. It was money well spent IMO. His management since has been shit.

Chamahk was free....it was a no-brainer for TPTB :charlie:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yes, but again, that is a seperate issue.

We have the money/board issue and the football issue.

Whilst they do relate to each other to some extent, Wenger is the man who is is responsible for the football issue.

I dont buy this idea of 'poor wenger, he's doing his best but his hands are tied' its bullshit. The man has done as much as he can and has taken the club as far as possible, but you have to face the fact that he isnt one of the best mangers in the world.

Never said he was one of the best managers in the world, I agree on the pitch stuff is down to wenger, i don't belive he has faith in this squad as much as he says he does. He only built a team this year that he thought would finish top 4 but once again its backfired.

He says if he don't get top 4 it will be a disaster and faliure, if he feels that way and we don't then she should walk.

If the board can't see we have been a failure and continue to employ this man, then what does it say about them?

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes, but again, that is a seperate issue.

We have the money/board issue and the football issue.

Whilst they do relate to each other to some extent, Wenger is the man who is is responsible for the football issue.

I dont buy this idea of 'poor wenger, he's doing his best but his hands are tied' its bullshit. The man has done as much as he can and has taken the club as far as possible, but you have to face the fact that he isnt one of the best mangers in the world.

Nobody said "poor Wenger" Wenger has made more and more mistakes. But when you are playing with much less quality you have to invest a lot more in hope than is healthy. You hope for the best when you don't have the tools to do the job. You bodge it.

[Flavs]

Arshavin can still be good. And he was when he joined. It was money well spent IMO. His management since has been shit.

But thats what i mean, we should have known that Wengers style wouldn't get the best out of Arshavin before we went anywhere near him. He, like many others, doesnt fit with our tactics either, while i agree that a certain amount of versatility is needed in modern football players have strengths and should be bought and then played for those strengths this isnt something Wenger does at all.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I think a lot of financial shenanigans have already gone on. Our transfer pot is never used, we make profits year on year and yet the pot is always the same - that fucking £30mill that never materialises. They also fudge the wage figures don't they, like including the fucking Christmas party clown and the milkman's bonus in the figures to make it look like we spend with the best. We never get a straight answer from these guys so we could only guess. I bet their fucking bonuses are tied to the performance on the balance sheet rather than wins on the pitch though. Some might say that's right because that's their job. But that's where the whole problem lies as far as I'm concerned. They have no incentive to do what's best for the club in entirety, including the football and the fans on which everything is based long term. They have their money now and all the rest is gravy. So flogging RvP and diverting cash to prop up the the books doesn't cost them a damn as they don't have to be here in 2 or 5 or 10 years. That's why they can say success on the pitch would be "nice" but isn't strictly necessary. The guy actually said that. Then Gazidis talks about City being jealous. Jealous of what? Not success on the pitch, that's for sure. He had to be talking about balance sheets again. Profit versus loss. Is Kroenke going along with this or is he just letting them slide out the door before he rolls his sleeves up? I don't know, they don't tell us shit.

I'm not sure, we've had numerous £10 million or thereabouts signings. On the main point though, I don't think I see this divide between Wenger and the board that others do. What you say about success on the pitch would be nice but not necessary can be reflected in Wenger saying winning the Carling Cup can't really be considered a trophy yet the top four, effectively is though. Both are effectively saying achieving a target isn't that important, it's just the 'competitions' that differ. Having said that though, I doubt Wenger would believe finishing in the top four is compulsory, if it hadn't been express to him, that was the case.

Wenger has maintained the self-sustaining rhetoric just in the same way as Gazidis has bundled his lines. Like you say Kroenke talks about Wenger in glowing terms but from what we know about Wenger and his stance on owners (of the Citeh and Chelsea kind), I'd hazard a guess that it's reciprocal.

[bignev]

I’m just fed up of us being so ordinary. RvP is the only reason we’re not deeply mid-table and he will leave in the summer if he knows what’s good for him. He’d be stupid not to.

I remember us being ordinary before of course but I wasn’t paying £1500 a year to watch them being so ordinary then. We weren’t in a shiny new stadium which we were promised would allow us to compete with Europe’s elite. Instead for years we have replaced top class players with average ones. We all knew there would be a bit of belt tightening when the new stadium was being built and you can’t legislate for billionaire owners throwing trucks of money around. I accept we can’t compete with City and I wouldn’t want us to try. I don’t want to play that game where any achievement is marred with the knowledge of how it’s achieved. But I do expect us to compete with Spurs. In fact, Spurs shouldn’t be anywhere near us. We have a far bigger stadium, a far bigger global fan base, a far bigger income in every way. We have CL football to offer players, a manager who is respected around the world, a legacy of (fairly) recent success. There is no way that a team like Spurs with far less resources than us should be allowed to catch up with and then overtake us. It’s embarrassing mismanagement from top to bottom. I don’t think replacing Wenger will make a whole lot of difference because we’ll still have the same board who are clearly complicit in it all. Were they not they’d have sacked him years ago. They’re clearly happy with his policy of minimising expenditure and maximizing income and, to an extent, Wenger has done well to keep us top 4 till now. But there’s only so long you can go on replacing top players with average ones before it starts to seriously hurt and we’ve reached that point now. We already had last season to an extent but then in a car crash of a summer we went and sold our 2 best midfielders and bought a few decent but not really world class players (even then it was only last minute panic-buying, were it not for the Old Trafford debacle you have to wonder whether we’d even have done that).

Wenger has been far too patient with players who just aren’t up to it. Theo is one of them, but there are others. At our pomp we were a terrific side, arguably the best ever PL side. It was a joy to watch and it’s sad if Wenger’s legacy is anything other than that side. And I knew it wouldn’t last. It’s not realistic to expect us to sustain that. But to see us fall from that to being so…well, I’ll say it again, so ordinary. It’s sad and infuriating. It is, as Oscar Wilde (or was it Didier Drogba) once said “a disgrace, a f***ing disgrace”. The atmosphere on Saturday is going to be…interesting. People’s patience has finally run out and if we go in at half time 0-0 or, worse, behind, then it’s going to get ugly. Our success has raised expectations but so has raising the ticket prices. And they haven’t gone up by 10% or even doubled. I used to pay 2 or 3 hundred a season, now it’s £1500. If they raise them this summer then it’ll be the final “screw you” to the fans. Were it not for dad wanting to go and me valuing the time I spend with him now as he gets older and confuseder they wouldn’t see me for dust. They could have thrown us a bone in the January window. Something, just something, we could maybe get a bit excited about. But no. So on we plod in the battle against mid-table. Spurs are gone, they’re a much, much better side than us. Top 4 is just about do-able but only because of other team’s ordinariness and right now I wouldn’t back us in that race.

In brief, balls to it. Balls to it all.

Excellent post. Sums my feelings up exactly except I don't think fourth is possible for us unless we completely change overnight which isn't realistic.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wasn't the Arshavin thing a hat tip to the fans when things were starting to look ropey? The "big name" but somehow on the cheap? It bought them an extra year at least. I was always surprised we had no competition for his signature. Something always bothered me about that deal.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

you know what i used to be in the wengers should never leave camp, and i used to give excuses such as 'the players would leave, we'd finish mid table, we are nothing without wenger'.

then i take a step back and ask myself is that really true? what difference does it makes if our players leave? we've had players leave for the past 10 fucking years so how much more can it actually affect us if a few others fuck off when wenger goes? cesc's fucked off, so has nasri, so this idea that everyone is staying because of wenger is down right crap.

then i used to tell myself 'well if the board are still here then bringing in a new manager won't help'. but i take a step back and ask myself once again, is that really true?

anyone with half a decent tactical brain can see this 4-3-3 bullshit with the players we have isn't working because our wingers DO NOT TRACK BACK ENOUGH AND IT LEAVES US EXPOSED ON THE COUNTER. not only that, we wouldn't see a manager take off the Ox and replace him with arshavin in a game where the ox was clearly our only threat. nor would a manager neglect the defense as long as wenger did, and maybe a new manager would actually TEACH the defense how to FUCKING DEFEND. and TEACH the midfield how to fucking HELP out the defense.

all along we've been mis-sold a vision; whether it's the youth project, a bigger stadium enhancing our power of winning a league, getting into the top 4. and every fucking year we're underachieving. NO-ONE and i mean NO-ONE is bigger than the club and this football club will be here far longer than the amount of time wenger, hill wood or any other cunt lives.

his time is up and he needs to go. im so fucking sad its got to this and i honestly sit here perplexed at how the FUCK we have got to this. with a bit more investment we could have been the most successful team in the 2000-2010 decade. if we had invested after our invincibles season we could have taken chelsea all the way in 04-05 and pipped them, if we had invested properly in summer 07 we could have won the league in 07/08. heck even the past few years we've looked somewhat close to winning the league, but now we dont even look that.

the board have missed a HUGE trick by not investing and going for trophies, the commercial revenue and merchandise sales they bring is beyond expectation. just take a look at man utd who still to this day are milking the success they had in the 90's.

its so sad its got to this and it nearly brings a tear to my eye.

but enough is enough.

this has george graham's final season written all over it.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Nobody said "poor Wenger" Wenger has made more and more mistakes. But when you are playing with much less quality you have to invest a lot more in hope than is healthy. You hope for the best when you don't have the tools to do the job. You bodge it.I got that feeling from your rock analogy.

Maybe I have interpereted it incorrectly.

But again, instead of buying 1 quality player, lets say a striker, for say £10-12m and paying them 90k a week who would almost ensure a top 4 finish, we buy 8 inexperienced kids and pay them 30k a week each.

[Super Ghel]

:gp:

In my opinion Wenger is both a miracle worker AND a stubborn incompetent in some key areas. It's like a brilliant brain surgeon who is also an alcoholic. You just can't believe an intelligent man would have such a fundamental weakness that undermines everything else he does. Mind you, he's not had much help. Everyone heard what that Gazidis bloke had to say. He's delusional in terms of football, a top grade bean counter maybe but totally unsuited to the job he has if what he says is true. He should be running a sporting goods store or something like that, where the sport itself is somebody else's affair and he is simply left to shift the merchandise.

I see Wenger's role as close to impossible in many ways. Picture a guy at the foot of a mountain. Somebody rolls a rock down the mountain (say the sale of Fabreags), it's Wenger's job to stop the rock hitting the bottom and push the thing back up. Meanwhile some other cunt rolls a second rock down. Now Wenger has to catch that too. He has to keep all the rocks far enough up the metaphorical mountain and he's done it for 14 years. That's the miracle part and that's why we shouldn't be trying to humiliate the guy just because the odd rock slips past him. I doubt anyone could do better given the circumstances.

However, he has this horrible tendency to ignore one or two rocks all the fucking time. He sees the rock perched, ready to be pushed. He sees it making its way down the mountain, gathering pace. And he just fucking ignores it. Why? There's some sort of blind spot. He certainly deserves criticism for that, but there are people blaming him for rolling the rocks down in the first place. It's the board doing that, not Wenger.

Those bastards took every last penny of the money Kroenke invested and they put it in their fucking pockets. Some of them have put fuck all into this club so even a tenner would have been a significant return for them. Not one of the cunts thought, I've done fucking well here, I'll kick half back. Even in terms of a long term, favourable loan. Kroenke takes a lot of heat but they sure made him jump through hoops and they cleaned him out for the maximum amount. That has put a lot of pressure on him to perform too, and he's a business man not a football man so he's going to do what he does best. That's why he loves Wenger, who else is going to faithfully push those fucking rocks up the hill that those greedy bastards rolled down? Kroenke might come good yet - he might. But he has a lot of damage to repair first. Like the fucked up commercial deals we signed just to grease the wheels for a stadium move that now turns out to have been about nothing more that a few greedy men cashing out. We know about those cunts and what they have done and they deserve to be despise for it. We don't know for sure about Kroenke yet, time will tell.

So the key goal to getting back on track is to burn the leeches off the club, stop them sucking blood. Get them out. Let Kroenke do his thing and see if that's worth a damn. He won't be going anywhere in the short term so we can only pray he has the club's interests at heart - not because he's an Arsenal fan but because he's smarter than the cunts he's replacing and realises that performance on the pitch will make it easier to perform at the bank.

I don't think Wenger is going anywhere either. Why would Kroenke remove one of the few foundations he can rely on? A replacement manager would have to be as good as Wenger at managing a much broader range of duties than most managers are exposed to. He'd also have to offer tangible advantages to the team on the pitch. Somebody like Mourinho could easily accomplish the latter, he's a much more astute manager than Wenger in that respect. Some of the other names suggested would be eaten alive though. Moyes, Coyle, the ultimate yes man Ancellotti. Give me a break. Maybe they could get the team played better right up until the team packed its bags and headed out the door. Those players are staying for a reason and I'm betting with 90% of them it's not down to the love of the club. More like the inflated wages we complain about. There must be individual deals with certain players in place while we wait to come out of the darkness. Is that why Theo plays all the time? Does her have a deal to keep him at the club? Is that why the captaincy is treated like a lollipop to be passed around? If true, that's what a new manager faces. A new manager could see us go from top 4-6 to absolutely nowhere fast as relationships break down. I'm speculating, sure, but there has to be something going on behind the scenes that explains the inexplicable failure to correct what we can see in public.

So the answer, purge the greedy fuckers that have robbed the club. Clear the path for Kroenke to see what his plan is. As unpopular as it may be, keep Wenger until this stage of whatever plan they have in place is concluded. And tough it out. Oh and everytime you see PHW or the rest of his cronies from now on - spit on them.

Fucking brilliant post!! :bow:

[Syn]

It's a good thread.


What are the main reasons for Arsenal's decline?


1. Other teams spending more on quality players than we are. Man City were nowhere near us and after their takeover they've moved up. Liverpool and Spuds have also taken risks on big name or expensive players - in the case of the spuds, it's paying off.

2. We are not getting the best out of our current squad. Even if we don't add more quality, we are not making best use of the talent we have. This is less the case this season than it has been in the previous to. 2009-2011 we had very good squads and we should have done better than we did. Maybe that would've spilled over into more progress this season.

3. Injuries. We are consistently topping the injury table list. We have been for years now. Some of it may be bad luck. I think it's bad luck that we had 17 fullbacks out at the same time. But the sheer quantity and persistence of injuries has to be looked at. Maybe the club are looking at it. There was talk of this GPS system shit for Van Persie and he's managed ok. But I'm a statistician and I cannot accept that it is likely the club are blameless. Luck has limits.


I think all of our problems can be grouped into these 3 categories. Wenger's tactical failings goes into 2. Letting star players go without replacement goes into 1. Any displays of mental fragility from players goes into 2.

I don't think there are easy answers to any of these (apart from 2). If there were, I think the club would've sorted them out. I'm going to leave the first problem because we've discussed it enough. Personally, I don't believe it is possible for us to know whether Wenger's hands are tied or whether the board are handing him money and he is refusing to spend it. The smart money might be on a combination of the two with a bias towards the board tightening things too much. But I don't want to get into that. There things that the manager could be doing a lot better that are independent of how much he spends on players.

With the injuries, again, it's difficult for us to spot an answer. But it's obvious something is wrong and I think it's irresponsible that enough weight hasn't been put on it. There have been murmurs but - as always - if there has been some research done into it, we've been kept in the dark. It annoys me too that the question is not asked more often by journalists to Wenger about this.

The easiest answer should be for '2'; a better manager would surely be able to get the best out of this current squad. I don't think our squad is good enough to challenge for the title but I don't think we should be near 7th. On the pitch, we keep seeing that Van Persie is the only one showing quality but I still think we have talented players on the pitch that are not doing enough. I think a top manager would get far more quality use out of Tomas Rosicky. I think a top manager wouldn't have waited until our league season was in danger of crumbling totally before introducing an obvious improvement such as Oxlade. I think a top manager wouldn't keep taking off the brightest spark on the pitch when he is in danger of winning us the game. I have some sympathy for Arsene because he watches these players train every day and he must know things about their fitness levels and ability that we don't.

But a series of recent decisions have been questionable at best and there are easy answers to such problems because the problems were easily preventable in the first place.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm not sure, we've had numerous £10 million or thereabouts signings. On the main point though, I don't think I see this divide between Wenger and the board that others do. What you say about success on the pitch would be nice but not necessary can be reflected in Wenger saying winning the Carling Cup can't really be considered a trophy yet the top four, effectively is though. Both are effectively saying achieving a target isn't that important, it's just the 'competitions' that differ. Having said that though, I doubt Wenger would believe finishing in the top four is compulsory, if it hadn't been express to him, that was the case.

Wenger has maintained the self-sustaining rhetoric just in the same way as Gazidis has bundled his lines. Like you say Kroenke talks about Wenger in glowing terms but from what we know about Wenger and his stance on owners (of the Citeh and Chelsea kind), I'd hazard a guess that it's reciprocal.

They aren't net £10mill signings in the true sense though are they? For every £10mill signing we've had £20mill coming in, either on player sales or that 4th place finish. You sell a £20mill player and replace him with a £10mill guy and you are going to see £10mill go missing on the pitch.

Arsenal reminds me more of a political party than a football club these days. You see those dumb politicians on Question Time being laughed out of the room but they still hold the party line no matter how ridiculous they look. Wenger was on board with the stadium move. The ground rules certainly changed on that one. The emphasis was supposed to be world class stadium for a world class team. The financial downturn and the rise of Abramovich and now City are the excuses but there's one outcome that wasn't affected if it was the plan all along. The shareholders' exit strategy. And when you look at what's happened everything can be fit into that agenda. So now there's a new party leader, a new plan and Wenger as one of the senior party figures is going along with that too. Probably until his contract expires. It's ideal for Kroenke, no major upheaval, a financial safe pair of hands until he can take full control. That's what it looks like to me anyway. The timings all make sense. I don't pretend to know what goes on behind closed doors at the club. But I'm capable of looking at the end results, seeing who won, who lost and taking the few pieces we're offered and arranging them in a way that makes at least some sense. These people don't plan from day to day, they have long term plans and strategies. I don't disagree that Wenger must be on board with at least the core of the plan that has unfolded. He must have thought he could make his part in it work and in the main he has, he's kept the club stable in an environment of net negative investment on the pitch. Trouble he has is the success that went before, he's been measured against that (by the fans) which is correct. But the dramatic change in the environment he's operating in sometimes doesn't get fully taken into account. I also think people inside the game will be far more aware of the finer details of what's going on. This is why I don't believe Wenger's stock will have diminished when it comes time for him to leave.

[Flavs]

I cant help but thinking that the 2 great teams we have had under Wenger have just been so much better than the other teams around them it has covered up the lack of tactical nuance and mental fragility we have seen since 2004? I wonder if the likes of Henry, bergkamp and Vieira were just so good they managed to drag the team along even when they were down.

I certainly remember the bizarre substitutions and over playing of certain players as well as persisting with out of form players being apparent since Arsene first came to the club. I certainly remember "filler" type players in the squad and the less than talented getting games.

[Marc Overmars]

I cant help but thinking that the 2 great teams we have had under Wenger have just been so much better than the other teams around them it has covered up the lack of tactical nuance and mental fragility we have seen since 2004? I wonder if the likes of Henry, bergkamp and Vieira were just so good they managed to drag the team along even when they were down.


IIRC it's been documented that Henry and/or Vieira gave the HT team talk in THAT crucial 4-2 win over Liverpool.

[Grebbo]

I cant help but thinking that the 2 great teams we have had under Wenger have just been so much better than the other teams around them it has covered up the lack of tactical nuance and mental fragility we have seen since 2004? I wonder if the likes of Henry, bergkamp and Vieira were just so good they managed to drag the team along even when they were down.

I certainly remember the bizarre substitutions and over playing of certain players as well as persisting with out of form players being apparent since Arsene first came to the club. I certainly remember "filler" type players in the squad and the less than talented getting games.

The stats would argue that our great teams weren't actually that great. They won three league titles in ten years and failed miserably in the Champs League. We only had one team to beat in the league then as well.

[Letters]

I cant help but thinking that the 2 great teams we have had under Wenger have just been so much better than the other teams around them it has covered up the lack of tactical nuance and mental fragility we have seen since 2004? I wonder if the likes of Henry, bergkamp and Vieira were just so good they managed to drag the team along even when they were down.

I certainly remember the bizarre substitutions and over playing of certain players as well as persisting with out of form players being apparent since Arsene first came to the club. I certainly remember "filler" type players in the squad and the less than talented getting games.

Yes, I think there's something in that. In 2002-2004 there are numerous examples of us collapsing when we should have won trophies (2003 we should have won the league, was in 2002 or 4 when we went out of 2 cups in a week before the Liverpool game).

[Letters]

The stats would argue that our great teams weren't actually that great. They won three league titles in ten years and failed miserably in the Champs League. We only had one team to beat in the league then as well.

They won 3 titles in 7 years, twice did the double and once went through an entire league season without losing a game.
They were fantastic sides but they did have some mental fragility too as I've mentioned.

[Niall_Quinn]

Forgot the other vital thing required. An effective backroom staff that brings proper tactical awareness in the key areas. In that respect, if Wenger won't bring in the help he clearly needs, this is the biggest reason for replacing the manager. I still can't get my head around Pat Rice (great Arsenal servant notwithstanding) being asked to stay when he was ready to leave. That was a great opportunity missed to clean house without bringing the whole house down.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The stats would argue that our great teams weren't actually that great. They won three league titles in ten years and failed miserably in the Champs League. We only had one team to beat in the league then as well.

Yep, Every team under Wengere has been bad mentally even invincibles bottled it the season after going unbeatern. We should have won back to back titles that year but no we gave it to the chavs.

We have a mentally week manager and it goes back years.

[Grebbo]

Our decline can also be contributed to the frankly piss poor commercial deals this board signed us up to.

Spurs having a shirt sponsor that pays double what ours does is shameful. They have been in the Champs Lge once and we've been in it 15yrs on the bounce!

Manure make more money from DHL sponsoring their training kit than we get for our playing kit sponsors!

All you ever hear is we were desperate for the cash to fund the stadium but that's nonsense. We got a whacking great big loan to fund the stadium and had a bag of cash after years of success on and off the pitch.

[Dennis Bendtner]

NQ's rock analogy is very good. Gradually they have rolled down and struck Wenger on the head. He's had these restraints for longer than most managers stay in a job. I suppose we're seeing the effects in his decision-making and managerial capabilities. Maybe it shouldn't be entirely surprising. So yeah, it's a case of board and manager accountability...but we'd only get so far by making changes in one area.

[Letters]

Looking back, it all started to go downhill when David Dein left. Dein and him were a good partnership, on his own he’s struggled.
Maybe a good, strong number 2 (stop giggling at the back) would be a better solution than sacking him because I don’t believe he’s suddenly a blithering idiot. There are better managers out there but there are a lot of worse managers too.

[LDG]

Looking back, it all started to go downhill when David Dein left. Dein and him were a good partnership, on his own he’s struggled.
Maybe a good, strong number 2 (stop giggling at the back) would be a better solution than sacking him because I don’t believe he’s suddenly a blithering idiot. There are better managers out there but there are a lot of worse managers too.

You copied and pasted that from somewhere :sulk:

[IBK]

I'm not sure, we've had numerous £10 million or thereabouts signings. On the main point though, I don't think I see this divide between Wenger and the board that others do. What you say about success on the pitch would be nice but not necessary can be reflected in Wenger saying winning the Carling Cup can't really be considered a trophy yet the top four, effectively is though. Both are effectively saying achieving a target isn't that important, it's just the 'competitions' that differ. Having said that though, I doubt Wenger would believe finishing in the top four is compulsory, if it hadn't been express to him, that was the case.

Wenger has maintained the self-sustaining rhetoric just in the same way as Gazidis has bundled his lines. Like you say Kroenke talks about Wenger in glowing terms but from what we know about Wenger and his stance on owners (of the Citeh and Chelsea kind), I'd hazard a guess that it's reciprocal.

I agree with your point. I don't see 2 opposing camps, either. Wenger, his original far-sightedness and his ability for years to maintain CL football is one of the main reasons for the stadium project and why the ownership, board and self-sustainability model is what it is. It is also, I suspect one of the reasons why our gradual decline has been tolerated. While we remained a top four club, it was accepted by manager and board that this was an acceptable place to be in the light of our cashed up rivals.

Our real gripe with the board is our lack of investment, and we assume that lack of funds is why Wenger hasn't addressed our obvious and basic failings. But I don't think its that simple. Yes, the board are risk averse/welded to this self-sustainability gig, and given what I believe is an overspend on player wages, I don't think that there is as much cash to throw around as many gooners seem to - but I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Wenger is being denied the funds he wants. Why would the board risk alienating their 'cash cow' if that is what they regards Wenger as.

No -this situation to me has all the hallmarks of being, at least partly, Wenger sanctioned. If the board was as parsimonious as some believe, why would they let Wenger pay over the odds in transfer fees and wages for the 'youth project' players he likes to collect. The board may be criticised for having no ambition greater than 4th place, but neither it would appear, does the manager (or at least no realistic ambition - otherwise why would he persist in taking risks with injuries; ignore form when it comes to the teamsheet etc).

As for what it will take to turn things around - the one thing that would make the necessary difference to the current regime would be ther return of DD - who in the bitterest of ironies was sacked for approaching the guy who now owns the club. :yikes: I have had my issues with his personal ambitions in the past - but as time goes on it begins to look like he was a vitally important part of the club's success - enabling us to land the players we want, and preventing AW from losing perspective/grounding which is a defect becoming more obvious as each season passes.

This ain't going to happen, though. So the only possible event that will change things is if AW goes, and I think that he may walk if we finish down the table and the disaffection at the Emirates continues.

After that - who knows? We may well continue our decline under another manager who does not have Wenger's talent for spotting players and selling them at a profit, and are nevertheless shackled to our self-sustaining policy. Or the board may finally realise that our decline will be utterly terminal without some serious investment on the playing side, and might play a less passive role without having to defer to wenger on everything player/coaching related.

[Ashburton2006]

I don't care that City are above us. They've blundered their way to the top through sheer weight of spending.
We can't compete with them, I wouldn't want us to try.
But Spurs? They don't have anywhere near the income or resources we do, they haven't had a shiny stadium or the CL football to entice players.
There's no way they should be able to compete with us much less now be way above us.

Simple Answer Letters, they have a Manager that will buy British and take a chance! We could have bought Scott Parker, but we bough benayoun? WTF!!

As much as I hate old wobbley face, he is a good Manager!

[Marc Overmars]

Looking back, it all started to go downhill when David Dein left. Dein and him were a good partnership, on his own he’s struggled.
Maybe a good, strong number 2 (stop giggling at the back) would be a better solution than sacking him because I don’t believe he’s suddenly a blithering idiot. There are better managers out there but there are a lot of worse managers too.

He obviously had a very good relationship with Wenger, both professional and personal as they remain good friends today. Wenger even asked Dein if he should resign in 2007, but Dein told him not to because it wasn't in our best interests.

I know he's not mr popular, but the guy was at least in touch with the way football was heading and wanted us to stay ahead of the pace. As IBK says above, ironically he was turfed for bringing in the guy who the board did a U-turn for and have now welcomed into the fold. Dein was incredibly influential, a massive Gooner, and a real football man for Wenger to confide in, which cannot be said of anyone from the current board. He did make a mistake in pursuing a possible move to Wembley, but then no one is perfect.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

im not sure why you are all complaining about kroenke not paying fuck all attention to the club whilst collecting his increasing profits

hill wood himself said kroenke 'knows sweet fa about english football and has no genuine interest'

[fakeyank]

Why arent Arsenal fans protesting this dive into mediocrity?

Manchester Utd fans were complaining even when they were winning the title because they felt the owners are assholes. Why cant we do the same when we dont know a thing about our owners plans, have a crack head like Ivan Gazidis and a clueless manager like Arsene? I know a lot of people are against booing but why? To me, it sounds like "I will never scold my kid, no matter what he/she does!"... If booing makes a point, I say do it. IMO, it makes a point.. it tells Arsene and his deluded buddies in the boardroom that fans are getting frustrated with the pile of manure they are seeing.

Letters is right when he says that we cant compete financially with City or Chelsea but to see Spurs catch us, trump us and actually play the best football is unacceptable. Do not forget Utd either. Their net spend is not even close to City or Chelsea and their owners have been openly raping them for years now. They spend what they make and have a manager who will not take the crap of the owners.. we need people like that.

If the fans are going to be a prawn sandwich brigade, then the real prawn sandwich brigade (board members n AW) will not give a toss about the club. Go out and fight for your club, make your voice heard, take banners, make t-shirts and let them know that we have had enough of this shit!

[Letters]

make t-shirts! :lol:


Pretty much agree with the rest of your post though.

[Niall_Quinn]

make t-shirts! :lol:


Pretty much agree with the rest of your post though.

T-shirts would work well, not a bad idea. Doesn't matter what's printed on them, all that matters is the fact they aren't bought from the club shop. Why doesn't the supporters club print them up, maybe with pictures of past greats who gave a fuck about the club, sell them and hand the money back to the club PROVIDED it is spent on bringing in a new striker? This won't deprive the club but it will stop the "wrong sort" diverting at least some money away from where it should be spent.

[Cripps_orig]

Easy answers?

I wish i knew. There is a lot wrong with this club from the top (the board) to the bottom (players etc). In fact there is so much wrong id even say the tea lady isnt innocent in all this. In fact i wouldnt be surprised if the tea lady is a man.

Seriously though, i havent read the thread and this may have been said elsewhere but sacking Wenger may not change anything but we have come to the time where it is a risk that we have to take. Yes we could get worse but we could also get better and im a positive guy so im thinking the latter. Wenger has made so many mistakes if we look at only the football side of things that getting rid is the only option we have left cos he wont change.

As for the board, Gazidis is a waste of space. How they can have the nerve to charge us, the fans the highest ticket prices in the world and then say we cant challenge other clubs is ridiculous. Why move to the Emirates? The whole point of the move was to challenge clubs with more money than us. Thats worked well hasnt it? Lied to by the board and the fans suffer cos of it.

One thing i cant forgive Wenger and the board for is they killed my love for football. Ive seen us finish 12th after a brief battle with relegation in 94/95 but we had players then who gave a fuck. They werent very good but they gave it their all and i as a fan can get behind that all day every day. The players we have today barring i dont know RVP? can all fuck off. They dont give a fuck about this club. In it for the money, they get paid regardless and they still go out after defeats and live it up. Fuck the lot of them.

[Syn]

T shirts :haha:

Try ripping up seats and smashing shit up.

Go big or go home.

[Grebbo]

Vote with your feet. Arsenal FC's business model relies on the fans bending over to be raped season after season.

Do not renew your season ticket. I didn't last season and am bloody glad I didn't.

[Xhaka Can’t]

T shirts :haha:

Try ripping up seats and smashing shit up.

Go big or go home.

We'd probably get a better shirt sponsorship deal.

[GP]

T shirts :haha:

Try ripping up seats and smashing shit up.

Go big or go home.

This is the best post in the history of the internet

[Niall_Quinn]

T shirts :haha:

Try ripping up seats and smashing shit up.

Go big or go home.

Too lame. Go nuclear, take their money.

[Niall_Quinn]

id even say the tea lady isnt innocent in all this

Don't even bother talking about that bitch.

[alexander]

Vote with your feet. Arsenal FC's business model relies on the fans bending over to be raped season after season.

Do not renew your season ticket. I didn't last season and am bloody glad I didn't.

Anyone know the figures? are they falling? ie the season ticket numbers or general sales?

[Niall_Quinn]

Nobody's going to stop watching Arsenal. If you don't go to the games they'll get you via Sky (which I have by the way and I pay for the full package and am looking into getting that sports channel GB was on about).

[fakeyank]

T shirts :haha:

Try ripping up seats and smashing shit up.

Go big or go home.

Or we could form a rebel group under your astute leadership and call it Arsenal Tigers

[Syn]

VITA (violence is the answer) has evolved into 'al ghelaeda'. Collect your starter pack from BoBN.

[Niall_Quinn]

VITA (violence is the answer) has evolved into 'al ghelaeda'. Collect your starter pack from BoBN.

Ah, so you've got the CIA onboard, nice going. Good to have the American angle, saves us travelling.

[Letters]

T-shirts! :lol:

How about?

http://mercuriuspoliticus.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/down-with-this-sort-of-thing1.jpg

[Niall_Quinn]

What's the point of booing while wearing a £40 shirt bought from the club shop? Far more effective to not buy the shirt, you don't have to boo then because they'll get the message where it really counts.

[Niall_Quinn]

T shirts :haha:

Try ripping up seats and smashing shit up.

Go big or go home.

What about hoodies then?

[fakeyank]

How about not going to the games for a change?

IMO Arsenal fans are too laid back. Most are at best keyboard warriors. We need proper ghels like those at leeds, milwall, manchester etc to make a difference.

[Syn]

Yeah, our fans suck for going to support the players (players who are obviously giving a shit this season). The travel club must be up there with the best away fans around. It's not easy to just stop going to watch games. People have been going for many years and it's a part of thee lives - as irrational as it may be. Letters has said before that the only reason he goes is for his dad. It's an addiction. Cigarette companies know they've got people that will buy cigarettes tomorrow even if they double prices, and the club know people will still go to games. That said, in the period we were about 17th, many home games were going on general sale. And they're running out of little gimmicks that will increase attendances if there are no changes. We cant keep signing invincibles.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

How about not going to the games for a change?

IMO Arsenal fans are too laid back. Most are at best keyboard warriors. We need proper ghels like those at leeds, milwall, manchester etc to make a difference.

This, problem is we have too many Prawn sandwich brigade fans now who the board cater for, they don't care about the poor cunt who works hard to get his season ticket, only the twat born with a silverspoon who will go and pay and watch whatever happens.

[Letters]

Surely it's the prawn sandwich brigade who will be the first to stop going as we get crapper.

[Niall_Quinn]

Surely it's the prawn sandwich brigade who will be the first to stop going as we get crapper.

They haven't been underfunding the prawn sandwiches have they? It just gets worse.

[Master Splinter]

Disgusting how prawn sandwiches and brigades they have inspired are treated on GW.

[fakeyank]

Yeah, our fans suck for going to support the players (players who are obviously giving a shit this season). The travel club must be up there with the best away fans around. It's not easy to just stop going to watch games. People have been going for many years and it's a part of thee lives - as irrational as it may be. Letters has said before that the only reason he goes is for his dad. It's an addiction. Cigarette companies know they've got people that will buy cigarettes tomorrow even if they double prices, and the club know people will still go to games. That said, in the period we were about 17th, many home games were going on general sale. And they're running out of little gimmicks that will increase attendances if there are no changes. We cant keep signing invincibles.

Our away fans are great but our home support is terrible. NY Redbulls has better home support than what I have seen at Emirates! I agree Arsenal is a part of many fans lives and it is time they decide whether they want to improve their lives or just float through it. The kind of mismanagement and shit that Arsenal fans have been given over the last 3-4 seasons, its only a miracle the fans havent done anything. We should have been on the boards and Wengers arse 3-4 seasons back.

[Master Splinter]

We should have been on the boards and Wengers arse 3-4 seasons back.

Quoted especially for GB..

[Xhaka Can’t]

Why for me?

[Özim]

One thing i cant forgive Wenger and the board for is they killed my love for football. Ive seen us finish 12th after a brief battle with relegation in 94/95 but we had players then who gave a fuck. They werent very good but they gave it their all and i as a fan can get behind that all day every day. The players we have today barring i dont know RVP? can all fuck off. They dont give a fuck about this club. In it for the money, they get paid regardless and they still go out after defeats and live it up. Fuck the lot of them.
Totally agree, I've said this many times....I just don't enjoy watching the team any more, the attitude, the style, the lack of desire and now quality....then we have to put up with him spouting cr*p after every game.

Once upon a time he was almost a god, now he's an irritating pr*ck I can't wait to see f*ck off, he's ruined what he'd built and is becoming someone who is heavily disliked now.

The board and the rest certainly have a lot of blame to shoulder, we know they're greedy f*ckers who don't give a sh*t about football, I've long voiced my feelings about Hill-wood and co, some said they cared about the club, I saw them as leeches that knew nothing about football and only cared about money and that's pretty clear now. Wenger though, well he's part of this mess and a certainly doesn't come out with any credit......he's an embarrassment, both on and off the pitch, I cringe every time I hear him talk or see him get into another confrontation with the manager of another team.

Opposing fans/managers dislike him and now a lot of his own fans do as well.

[Marc Overmars]

I think it's more accurate to say the modern day incarnation of the sport has killed my love of football, rather than Wenger and Arsenal specifically. Although yes that has contributed, it is incredibly frustrating to support a club absolutley blessed in comparison to 90% of other clubs in the country, yet consistently fail to make the most of what they are.

[Letters]

I think it's more accurate to say the modern day incarnation of the sport has killed my love of football, rather than Wenger and Arsenal specifically. Although yes that has contributed, it is incredibly frustrating to support a club absolutley blessed in comparison to 90% of other clubs in the country, yet consistently fail to make the most of what they are.

:gp:

I pretty much never watch a neutral game any more. It's hard to care about a sport where it's mostly about who has the biggest chequebook and it's hard to care about our players when they're mostly overpaid spoilt brats who will piss off when someone waves the next big cheque at them. It's hard to care about the club when they so clearly care so little about the fans and just see us as customers to extract as much money as they can out of us.


:ilt:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Wenger talks shit - yes. But lets not pretend football isn't full of people who talk utter shit. And yep, our football is dirge, but you know what? At least 90% of football in the EPL is pretty fucking unwatchable now. We are utter dirt - our football stinks, our player attitudes stink, our manager is out of touch, the Club haven't invested in years, morale is as low as I've ever known it, I see no way we can get out of this, I feel nothing but despair.

And despite all this, the worst conditions in my life supporting Arsenal - it is still good enough to be comfortably in the top third of supposedly, one of the top 2 leagues in the world.

Football. Is. Shit.

And it is not just us.

I don't offer this as an excuse for where we are, because it isn't, I'm just pointing out that football is a mess. How many games does anyone watch that they can truly say they've enjoyed? It is actually a shock to the system these days when I stumble upon a football game that is actually any good.

[Letters]

Anyone up for a mass GW Suicide Pact now the ZD epidemic is unstoppable?

[Cripps_orig]

Dont disagree at all with the people who say footballs shit these days especially with the reasons they give but ultimately i dont give a fuck about other teams, only Arsenal.

If we werent as we are now then id still enjoy it

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'd go along with that Ach. Football has been dirge for a while, and even though I we didn't win things over the past few years, I could at least take some comfort from watching us play some good enjoyable football. That does not happen any more.

Winning trophies for me, is the cherry on the top of the cake. Going to a game and watching an entertaining game is for the most part all I want out of football - unless we hit the business end of the season - then I'll take a win however it comes. But we don't get that any more. Just boring predictable dirge with the same mistakes being repeated over and over again.

[Syn]

Fuck this shit.

I'm fucking off to gonersweb tbf.

Rip everything up and start again.

[Master Splinter]

Anyone up for a mass GW Suicide Pact now the ZD epidemic is unstoppable?

Just watch superior sports, like tennis.

And don't support teams/individuals anymore.

It's possible your life will change. For the better.

[Marc Overmars]

There's something in that tbh. Football is so tribal.

Nothing actually pisses me off at the moment more than Arsenal, which are a complete irrelevance to my life, what they do doesn't affect anything. Yet there I am fucked off every Monday morning because we ballsed up on the weekend. :shrug:

[Cripps_orig]

Arsenal fans are planning to use bin-bags to protest against the club's poor run of results. Fans will highlight the number of empty red seats at the Emirates during Saturday's match against Blackburn by covering them with black bin liners.
Full story: Daily Mirror

:lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Just watch superior sports, like tennis.

And don't support teams/individuals anymore.

It's possible your life will change. For the better.

Lot to be said for that approach. Fuck this shit, caring about cunts who earn millions and don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves. Like they care if we're pissed off or not. Cunts.

Anyway, Formula 1 starts again soon and I'm just praying Alonso can do the biz this year. Fuck that Vettel bitch. Come on Alonso! Fuck it, I'll kill myself if he doesn't win this year.

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol:

PHW will just go around and collect them so he can trim some more off the operating budget.

[Cripps_orig]

F1? :lol:

Thats even worse

Tennis is the sport tbh

[Syn]

Bloody love Tennis.

Theo would be awesome at that - he always hits it over the net.

[Master Splinter]

F1? :lol:

Thats even worse

Tennis is the sport tbh

:gp:

But I'm not in the business of critisising one sport to praise another.

[Flavs]

We need proper ghels like those at leeds, milwall, manchester etc to make a difference.

This really is a post of such monumental stupidity i am genuinely taken aback. Good work :good:

[Letters]

Have you never seen his posts before? :unsure:

[Flavs]

Have you never seen his posts before? :unsure:

Well yes of course but he has raised the bar so high with that i am dumbfounded. Someone actually wanting fans like Leeds and Millwall is truly astounding.

Its a little like Greenpeace saying, "We aren't getting anywhere with our peaceful methods, you know what we need? Some of those take the situation by the scruff of the neck Nazi types, I wonder if Hitler is still around. Or what about that Stalin chap? He always delivered"

[Letters]

if I may try to de-stupid it a bit, FY isn't from these parts and may not know all the history of violence with Leeds and Millwall fans. If he means we need more passionate fans then maybe he's right. But in terms of people who go to games, Arsenal have relentlessly marketed themselves and more affluent, middle class fans. And that's what they've got.

[LDG]

There isn't a problem with our home support per say.

It's that we attract a wider range of fans than most clubs, have a bigger stadium than most clubs, and the fact that Arsenal choose to "Americanise" everything, saps away some of the atmosphere....things like the cheering after a name thing....I DON'T WANT TO SHOUT OUT THE SURNAME OF THE PLAYER, I'M NOT IN PLAYSCHOOL!!!! Arrgrgrhrhr....things like that, which are totally un-fan related.

The core support of singers is as good as ever....but you try starting off a song when you're sat next to someone in a suit on Champions League night...stinking of booze and leaning on his shoulder

[Flavs]

..but you try starting off a song when you're sat next to someone in a suit on Champions League night...stinking of booze and leaning on his shoulder

:lol:

[Flavs]

if I may try to de-stupid it a bit,

Many have tried, all have failed.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Why shouldnt we be able to compete every season though?

Why couldnt we become like Man U and win back to back titles or win 19 league titles?

We can afford to buy quality players, but instead we buy cheap youngsters and shower them with high wages.

What is it with this inferiority complex that some gooners have? With the right manager and 3 or 4 quality signings, we could be up there competing every season and winning titles/trophies.

Its the current rut that we are stuck in that makes it seem impossible, its not the actual fact or impossibility of it.

I can go along with this....as Letters I have seen woeful Arsenals and I have seen us reach the heights too! and I don't see why we can't go back to those heights....I mean we have Arsenal up there, in with a chance at some point in all the seasons that have made up our barren run. The problem has been a massive implosion at the wrong time.

There is something about the mechanics of the club that does not allow us to maintain a challenge and that has been the case even during our heady years, as the lack of back to back league titles shows.

(Wasnt able to finish. . .) I do think a change is in order and it seems that Wenger is tarnishing his legacy by sticking to the current path whether it be at the boards direction or not!
Any manager worth his salt would have demand a freer reign or walked, he has done neither and by such actions is losing the love of the masses. . .Marie Antoinette after famously saying 'Let them eat cake' deservedly got her head lobbed off. . .go work it out!

[Letters]

I can go along with this....as Letters I have seen woeful Arsenals and I have seen us reach the heights too! and I don't see why we can't go back to those heights.....

It's a different world now, it's harder to compete. Sides used to finish mid-table one year and win the title the next. It's far harder to move between 'strata' in football, even within the PL (although Arsenal seem to be doing a good job, albeit in the wrong direction) unless you have a billionaire backer. City and Chelsea wouldn't be top 4 right now had they not spent big - spent money they by themselves couldn't afford. Wenger has made a lot of mistakes but it has to be remembered that 2 of the sides above us are in false positions and it's hard to compete with them.

[LDG]

All it comes down to is maximising the resources we have, and using every effort we have to TRY and be up there challenging. If we don't make it, fair enough....but the point of the WHOLE FUCKING THING, is that we are not doing everything possible to achieve our best.

That's in the board room, and on the pitch.

/thread.

[Letters]

That. Yes, it's unrealistic to think we can be as dominant as we once were but it's realistic and perfectly reasonable to think we should be doing our best to try to be, and we're not. There's your problem.

[GP]

If we don't win the FA cup I'll scream and scream and scream until I'm sick :angry:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Why don't we just wave handkerchiefs like they do in Spain? I'm sure all the toffs will have them on their person.

[LDG]

Why don't we just wave handkerchiefs like they do in Spain? I'm sure all the toffs will have them on their person.

I would put my house on the blatent FACT that Letters has a hanky. A proper material one.

Nailed on.

[Letters]

You can keep your house. I have 2, one in each pocket. I was brung up proper, you know.

If we don't win tomorrow I fear I may break another monocle. <_<

[LDG]

:lol:

My take a pack of handy andy's with me tomorrow...I do tend to get the sniffles when it's cold out.

Hard core Asrenal support :bow:

[Ralpheroo72]

To my fello Gooners, I apologise for calling Arsene a cunt, I was really fired up after the Bolton mishap. I am passionate about our club, and I sometimes find it hard to be positive about the direction we seem to be treading. Arsene has brought me some amazing times through a very difficult time in my life, and I was too hasty in my criticism of our greatest ever manager. I have upset a few on here, and for that, I am sorry. I am as big a Gooner as you, and then some.

[LDG]

To my fello Gooners, I apologise for calling Arsene a cunt, I was really fired up after the Bolton mishap. I am passionate about our club, and I sometimes find it hard to be positive about the direction we seem to be treading. Arsene has brought me some amazing times through a very difficult time in my life, and I was too hasty in my criticism of our greatest ever manager. I have upset a few on here, and for that, I am sorry. I am as big a Gooner as you, and then some.

Don't be silly mate! We're all dejected. We say what we say, and I'm as guilty as most tbh. Show's we all care I guess.

Anyways, onwards and upwards eh?

Come on The Arsenal! :scarf:

[Syn]

Bergkamp is a cunt tbh.

[Flavs]

If we don't win the FA cup I'll scream and scream and scream until I'm sick :angry:

Oh we will get to the final against some bunch of complete no hopers and then we will treat it like "any other game" not turn up wearing suits, not release a record, play the stiffs due to our more important game against shitetown Academical the following week and we will lose 1-0 after dominating the game but sadly conceding a late goal.

[LDG]

Bergkamp is a cunt tbh.

Shut it you faget.

[LDG]

Yet once you let anger and frustration spill over into abuse you lose something from your argument. “Arsene’s recent purchases have been poor” would surely spark reasonable debate between fans, even if they were coming at it from different sides. “Arsene’s recent purchases have been poor, the fucking cunt” will ensure that the debate isn’t about the recent purchases, it’s about whether or not the manager is a cunt, and ultimately it gets us nowhere. There’s nothing constructive about it and it only ends up causing more anger and argument.


Courtesy of arseblog.com

Sorry Ralph :haha:

[Ralpheroo72]

Courtesy of arseblog.com

Sorry Ralph :haha:

I have seen the error of my ways. I am human, and according to Jebus, we are not perfect. I love Arsenal, and the folk who are in charge are fucking idiots.

[Niall_Quinn]

Bergkamp is a cunt tbh.

You seem to forget that Bergkamp was superb, he almost single handedly won us that game against Middlesbro!

[Niall_Quinn]

To my fello Gooners, I apologise for calling Arsene a cunt, I was really fired up after the Bolton mishap. I am passionate about our club, and I sometimes find it hard to be positive about the direction we seem to be treading. Arsene has brought me some amazing times through a very difficult time in my life, and I was too hasty in my criticism of our greatest ever manager. I have upset a few on here, and for that, I am sorry. I am as big a Gooner as you, and then some.

Be amazed if you have genuinely upset anyone. Try harder next time please.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

:gp:

In my opinion Wenger is both a miracle worker AND a stubborn incompetent in some key areas. It's like a brilliant brain surgeon who is also an alcoholic. You just can't believe an intelligent man would have such a fundamental weakness that undermines everything else he does. Mind you, he's not had much help. Everyone heard what that Gazidis bloke had to say. He's delusional in terms of football, a top grade bean counter maybe but totally unsuited to the job he has if what he says is true. He should be running a sporting goods store or something like that, where the sport itself is somebody else's affair and he is simply left to shift the merchandise.

I see Wenger's role as close to impossible in many ways. Picture a guy at the foot of a mountain. Somebody rolls a rock down the mountain (say the sale of Fabreags), it's Wenger's job to stop the rock hitting the bottom and push the thing back up. Meanwhile some other cunt rolls a second rock down. Now Wenger has to catch that too. He has to keep all the rocks far enough up the metaphorical mountain and he's done it for 14 years. That's the miracle part and that's why we shouldn't be trying to humiliate the guy just because the odd rock slips past him. I doubt anyone could do better given the circumstances.

However, he has this horrible tendency to ignore one or two rocks all the fucking time. He sees the rock perched, ready to be pushed. He sees it making its way down the mountain, gathering pace. And he just fucking ignores it. Why? There's some sort of blind spot. He certainly deserves criticism for that, but there are people blaming him for rolling the rocks down in the first place. It's the board doing that, not Wenger.

Those bastards took every last penny of the money Kroenke invested and they put it in their fucking pockets. Some of them have put fuck all into this club so even a tenner would have been a significant return for them. Not one of the cunts thought, I've done fucking well here, I'll kick half back. Even in terms of a long term, favourable loan. Kroenke takes a lot of heat but they sure made him jump through hoops and they cleaned him out for the maximum amount. That has put a lot of pressure on him to perform too, and he's a business man not a football man so he's going to do what he does best. That's why he loves Wenger, who else is going to faithfully push those fucking rocks up the hill that those greedy bastards rolled down? Kroenke might come good yet - he might. But he has a lot of damage to repair first. Like the fucked up commercial deals we signed just to grease the wheels for a stadium move that now turns out to have been about nothing more that a few greedy men cashing out. We know about those cunts and what they have done and they deserve to be despise for it. We don't know for sure about Kroenke yet, time will tell.

So the key goal to getting back on track is to burn the leeches off the club, stop them sucking blood. Get them out. Let Kroenke do his thing and see if that's worth a damn. He won't be going anywhere in the short term so we can only pray he has the club's interests at heart - not because he's an Arsenal fan but because he's smarter than the cunts he's replacing and realises that performance on the pitch will make it easier to perform at the bank.

I don't think Wenger is going anywhere either. Why would Kroenke remove one of the few foundations he can rely on? A replacement manager would have to be as good as Wenger at managing a much broader range of duties than most managers are exposed to. He'd also have to offer tangible advantages to the team on the pitch. Somebody like Mourinho could easily accomplish the latter, he's a much more astute manager than Wenger in that respect. Some of the other names suggested would be eaten alive though. Moyes, Coyle, the ultimate yes man Ancellotti. Give me a break. Maybe they could get the team played better right up until the team packed its bags and headed out the door. Those players are staying for a reason and I'm betting with 90% of them it's not down to the love of the club. More like the inflated wages we complain about. There must be individual deals with certain players in place while we wait to come out of the darkness. Is that why Theo plays all the time? Does her have a deal to keep him at the club? Is that why the captaincy is treated like a lollipop to be passed around? If true, that's what a new manager faces. A new manager could see us go from top 4-6 to absolutely nowhere fast as relationships break down. I'm speculating, sure, but there has to be something going on behind the scenes that explains the inexplicable failure to correct what we can see in public.

So the answer, purge the greedy fuckers that have robbed the club. Clear the path for Kroenke to see what his plan is. As unpopular as it may be, keep Wenger until this stage of whatever plan they have in place is concluded. And tough it out. Oh and everytime you see PHW or the rest of his cronies from now on - spit on them.

Good post. . .not much wrong there.
Makes you think that things could be different if only. . .

[fakeyank]

Well yes of course but he has raised the bar so high with that i am dumbfounded. Someone actually wanting fans like Leeds and Millwall is truly astounding.

Its a little like Greenpeace saying, "We aren't getting anywhere with our peaceful methods, you know what we need? Some of those take the situation by the scruff of the neck Nazi types, I wonder if Hitler is still around. Or what about that Stalin chap? He always delivered"

Like Letters mentioned in the post below the above quoted post, I meant passionate, vocal fans. It is fans like you for which Arsenal will have a manager like Arsene and douche bags in the board. Unfortunately most fans who can make a difference have that attitude. Arsenal really is going down the shitter! :good:

[LDG]

Like Letters mentioned in the post below the above quoted post, I meant passionate, vocal fans. It is fans like you for which Arsenal will have a manager like Arsene and douche bags in the board. Unfortunately most fans who can make a difference have that attitude. Arsenal really is going down the shitter! :good: That's a bit harsh mate.We have some top top fans. We are passionate, but we're also quite well educated. Not in a posh sense, more a football sense, mainly because if the football we've seen iver the last 15 years and the stuff we saw before.Yes the atmosphere has changed over the years, but there are many reasons behind that. Mostly because it has become far too expensive for local die hard working class fans to attend games. You have the money to get a plane over, stay in a hotel, go out drinking and go to a match. And i don't doubt your support at all. In fact, i think it's great that someone so far away can care so passionately. But people 1 mile down the road can't afford 50 quid, let alone the rest.It's happening at every club. But the passionate fans you have in your dreamworld are usually associated with clubs who still gather local support, price accordingly etc. if they had the financial pull of a bigger club, you can garuntee they will alienate their core support in exactly the same way.So save your posturing on passion etc and just get behind the lads. Cos that's what its about. Through good and bad.

[fakeyank]

That's a bit harsh mate.We have some top top fans. We are passionate, but we're also quite well educated. Not in a posh sense, more a football sense, mainly because if the football we've seen iver the last 15 years and the stuff we saw before.Yes the atmosphere has changed over the years, but there are many reasons behind that. Mostly because it has become far too expensive for local die hard working class fans to attend games. You have the money to get a plane over, stay in a hotel, go out drinking and go to a match. And i don't doubt your support at all. In fact, i think it's great that someone so far away can care so passionately. But people 1 mile down the road can't afford 50 quid, let alone the rest.It's happening at every club. But the passionate fans you have in your dreamworld are usually associated with clubs who still gather local support, price accordingly etc. if they had the financial pull of a bigger club, you can garuntee they will alienate their core support in exactly the same way.So save your posturing on passion etc and just get behind the lads. Cos that's what its about. Through good and bad.

I understand that football is expensive especially for many locals. What I am questioning is the 60000 fans that go to the ground. No one is asking for egypt style riots... How about being vocal about it in a game, banners? Every educated man and uneducated man can do that. Why is protesting against the club being run the way it is, considered bad?
Having said that, Arsene and his mugs have their time up IMO.. This small protest in bburn match will grow if as expectedly our team plays the way they have been playing.

[LDG]

Tbh mate, many fans that go and take their kids will have grown up seeing much much worse than current. There are many reasons beyond price that have changed our supporting voice.One reason is the football we have played and the success we have had in the last 15 years. You see it at utd, chelsea etc. you sit amd watch mesmorised. I bet if you correlated the "pationate" fans with league position or status, you'd see a massive similarity. Stoke, swansea etc who have never been spoiled by cups, and as i said before, don't attract a global fan base. They relish being the underdog.We're an established big club with honours pissing out our backsides and so we attract glory hinters, we attract a foruegn fanbase, tourists, kids, friends and family who come to see the hype. All of it impacts the crowd. Don't forget lots of us feel the pressure and nerves of winning big games, preserving our status etc. So many reasons. It's nit a simple as you think....yet here we are...and there are big signs of people shouting at the establishment. See the ox substitution. Don't write off our fans with a broad brush. Many of us care, sing and hope.

[Marc Overmars]

I understand that football is expensive especially for many locals. What I am questioning is the 60000 fans that go to the ground. No one is asking for egypt style riots... How about being vocal about it in a game, banners? Every educated man and uneducated man can do that. Why is protesting against the club being run the way it is, considered bad?
Having said that, Arsene and his mugs have their time up IMO.. This small protest in bburn match will grow if as expectedly our team plays the way they have been playing.

It's not easy to turn up with the intention of protesting though, the reason people turn up first and foremost is to support the team. When you start putting your personal feelings above the success of the club, then we as fans need to maybe look at ourselves as well. I certainly wouldn't bother paying 40, 50 sometimes 60 quid if all I was planning on doing was having a moan, a moan that would not make a jot of difference to anything.

[LDG]

It's not easy to turn up with the intention of protesting though, the reason people turn up first and foremost is to support the team. When you start putting your personal feelings above the success of the club, then we as fans need to maybe look at ourselves as well. I certainly wouldn't bother paying 40, 50 sometimes 60 quid if all I was planning on doing was having a moan, a moan that would not make a jot of difference to anything.

Yup. We'll support you ever more. That's the way it just fucking is.

[Xhaka Can’t]

What are these 'protests' supposed to achieve?

At Manchester United they've been protesting for years over the ownership and debt structure at the Club, and it remains exactly as it was. They are fortunate in that they have the best Manager in the game. A manager the current ownership did not appoint. Lets see how effective those protests have been when Fergie is gone.

The only effective protest method is to stop buying Arsenal related merchandising or stop going to games. I've only been to a couple myself - I want to go to more, I love the buzz of going to a game, but I'm pretty disgusted with the thought of contributing to the coffers of a Club who's ownership will pocket the money. I thought about going tomorrow, but decided to make do with a few pre match drinks.

FY, you've been going to games for five minutes and you have a limited understanding of the experience of a large section of match goers and every post you make exposes this limited understanding further. Some of your statements in this thread are both ignorant and insulting to people who regularly get behind the team.

Many people paying to go to matches are making big financial sacrifices and while they share your frustration, they in the main get behind the team. And that is what fans attending should continue to do for as long as this team are in with the prospect of playing for something, whether it is the CL, FA Cup or CL Qualification.

[Letters]

I thought about going tomorrow, but decided to make do with a few pre match drinks.

You coming to the Rocket? :unsure:
Was looking for someone to keep MrsL company during the game but think Handy can only pop in quickly pre-match so MrsL will probably stay at home which means I can't be out to play for too long.

(sorry everyone, carry on)

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yeah, coming along before the match.

[fakeyank]

What are these 'protests' supposed to achieve?

At Manchester United they've been protesting for years over the ownership and debt structure at the Club, and it remains exactly as it was. They are fortunate in that they have the best Manager in the game. A manager the current ownership did not appoint. Lets see how effective those protests have been when Fergie is gone.

The only effective protest method is to stop buying Arsenal related merchandising or stop going to games. I've only been to a couple myself - I want to go to more, I love the buzz of going to a game, but I'm pretty disgusted with the thought of contributing to the coffers of a Club who's ownership will pocket the money. I thought about going tomorrow, but decided to make do with a few pre match drinks.

FY, you've been going to games for five minutes and you have a limited understanding of the experience of a large section of match goers and every post you make exposes this limited understanding further. Some of your statements in this thread are both ignorant and insulting to people who regularly get behind the team.

Many people paying to go to matches are making big financial sacrifices and while they share your frustration, they in the main get behind the team. And that is what fans attending should continue to do for as long as this team are in with the prospect of playing for something, whether it is the CL, FA Cup or CL Qualification.

I dont need to go to 100 games to know that Arsenal fans are not vocal for the most part. Emirates sounded just like how it sounded on tv- quite! My question or concern is really simple- would you or letters or ldg (ppl I know who go to games) make an effort to take a banner saying "where is my club going? Arsene, phw, stan... Someone give me an answer!" This does not mean not supporting the team... Support anyone in an arsenal shirt giving 100%. The players need the support no matter how talentless they are...

[Xhaka Can’t]

I dont need to go to 100 games to know that Arsenal fans are not vocal for the most part. Emirates sounded just like how it sounded on tv- quite! My question or concern is really simple- would you or letters or ldg (ppl I know who go to games) make an effort to take a banner saying "where is my club going? Arsene, phw, stan... Someone give me an answer!" This does not mean not supporting the team... Support anyone in an arsenal shirt giving 100%. The players need the support no matter how talentless they are...

No.

Because that is idiotic.

And another thing, I've been to many grounds and it is always the same....the away fans, fan for fan, including Arsenal fans ALWAYS make more noise.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I understand that football is expensive especially for many locals. What I am questioning is the 60000 fans that go to the ground. No one is asking for egypt style riots... How about being vocal about it in a game, banners? Every educated man and uneducated man can do that. Why is protesting against the club being run the way it is, considered bad?
Having said that, Arsene and his mugs have their time up IMO.. This small protest in bburn match will grow if as expectedly our team plays the way they have been playing.

I just dont see the protests happening, since I have been a fan and I have seen some pretty bad teams (arguably worse than the current one) I have not seen hardly any opens shows of discontentment!

Actually I cant recall the kind of booing we are getting at the moment, Eboue got some stick before getting sibbed for his own protrction but no mass protest againdt the club - please feel free to correct me on this, as I dont claim to have been to every game on the last 30 odd years!

But unfurling banners of hate, wearing t shirts, burning seats or bring back the dunking chair? Not sure mate

Arsenal has usually kept its business under wraps, which may or may not be the best way depending on the situation and I think the fans follow that lead. But the boos are the first sign that thefans are looking for a way to voice their feelings. . .whether we go to the extremes you have mentioned waits to be seen. . .

[Cripps_orig]

Apparently the fans are taking bin liners.

That'll show the club we mean business

[Xhaka Can’t]

We're taking out the trash.

[Injury Time]

I dont need to go to 100 games to know that Arsenal fans are not vocal for the most part. Emirates sounded just like how it sounded on tv- quite! My question or concern is really simple- would you or letters or ldg (ppl I know who go to games) make an effort to take a banner saying "where is my club going? Arsene, phw, stan... Someone give me an answer!" This does not mean not supporting the team... Support anyone in an arsenal shirt giving 100%. The players need the support no matter how talentless they are...

Arsenal fans are quite what?

Oh quiet I think they were just stunned into to silence by your face tbh.

Certain patches of the ground are noisier than others, I wouldn't say we were any quieter than any other home fans compared to away matches I've been too. If the team can't be arsed it coveys to the crowd, we're not there to be cheerleaders but when we are behind I can't fault the fans for effort in trying to raise the team.

[fakeyank]

No.

Because that is idiotic.

And another thing, I've been to many grounds and it is always the same....the away fans, fan for fan, including Arsenal fans ALWAYS make more noise.

Why is that idiotic when that is the same question you asked in this thread? Sure NQ, PnG will come with their own theories but no one knows whats going on other than AW n his bum chums.. What is wrong in asking that qs at a match? Whats the point of making this noise on a mb when no one is ready to stand for it in real life?

As for noise in stadiums, i have been to a few myself and found arsenal fans to be the quitest. May be I came to watch small games against chelsea n city. I think it will be louder when we play teams of our standard- fulham, west brom etc

[fakeyank]

I just dont see the protests happening, since I have been a fan and I have seen some pretty bad teams (arguably worse than the current one) I have not seen hardly any opens shows of discontentment!

Actually I cant recall the kind of booing we are getting at the moment, Eboue got some stick before getting sibbed for his own protrction but no mass protest againdt the club - please feel free to correct me on this, as I dont claim to have been to every game on the last 30 odd years!

But unfurling banners of hate, wearing t shirts, burning seats or bring back the dunking chair? Not sure mate

Arsenal has usually kept its business under wraps, which may or may not be the best way depending on the situation and I think the fans follow that lead. But the boos are the first sign that thefans are looking for a way to voice their feelings. . .whether we go to the extremes you have mentioned waits to be seen. . .

The discontent is because we have the potential, at least on paper to be among the top teams in Europe. We are supposed to have this awesome stadium generating millions, paying the highest ticket prices to watch mid table footballers playing crap football. In 1992-93, Arsenal fans were in highbury paying prices that were not over the top.. Thats why there was no protest.

Like I said earlier in a post, I do see this initial protest against bburn turning into something big.. For Allahs sake, I hope it does...

[fakeyank]

Arsenal fans are quite what?

Oh quiet I think they were just stunned into to silence by your face tbh.

Certain patches of the ground are noisier than others, I wouldn't say we were any quieter than any other home fans compared to away matches I've been too. If the team can't be arsed it coveys to the crowd, we're not there to be cheerleaders but when we are behind I can't fault the fans for effort in trying to raise the team.

Exactly.. The 'I dont give a fuck' attitude is not just of the players. Its the fans, players, arsene, tea lady etc.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Why is that idiotic when that is the same question you asked in this thread? Sure NQ, PnG will come with their own theories but no one knows whats going on other than AW n his bum chums.. What is wrong in asking that qs at a match? Whats the point of making this noise on a mb when no one is ready to stand for it in real life?

As for noise in stadiums, i have been to a few myself and found arsenal fans to be the quitest. May be I came to watch small games against chelsea n city. I think it will be louder when we play teams of our standard- fulham, west brom etc

Have you considered the quality on offer on those days? You saw some shitty matches.

And as for your point in bold, you are too hyper and too quick to judge, which is why you often jump to wrong conclusions. Try to be more considered. And by that, I don't mean considered in the heat of the moment, such as immediately following a loss or watching shit play, because that is when emotions can and do run wild. But there is no excuse for a lack of a considered approach days after a game.


August 1st 2011 e-mail to Arsenal Marketing Department

To whom it may concern,

This afternoon I was contacted by a member of your staff, (Marco, I think) who informed me that my membership had lapsed and asked if I wanted to renew. I didn't and was asked why. As I was at work I fobbed him off by saying, "money's tight".

I thought it better now to inform you that the reason I gave Marco was in no way the full story. The main reason I am not renewing is because I don't like the direction the Club is heading and have not done so for some time now. The lack of investment in playing staff and the repetition of the same mistakes season after season with no apparent material effort being made to address them are much bigger factors in my reason not to renew.

I'd explain what the same mistakes are and the excuses offered by the Club over and over again are, but that would just be insulting your intelligence. You know what the problems are - everyone does, but nothing is ever done to address them.

We (the fans) are being told repeatedly, that the funds are there to address weaknesses in the team. Yet no investment is made by the Club. The only people required to increase investment are the fans of the Club - to the tune of 6.5%. And for what? To see the same failures, the same weaknesses that will produce the same results.

This in no way implies that I think that the Club needs to spend ridiculous amounts on players. There are all sorts of points between the stupid amounts Man City spends and the parsimonious approach that our Club takes. If the fans are required to invest more, then so should Arsene Wenger be required to do so by the Board.

If fans show their displeasure at matches, and there is much to be frustrated about, we get critisised by Peter Hill-Wood and Arsene Wenger as if we are ungrateful Phillistines who don't realise how good we have it. While I agree some of the fan reaction may have been counter-productive during matches, I fail to see how people within the Club cannot understand it. Quite frankly, I'm amazed at the disconnection between the people running our Club and us, the fans. I place the blame squarely for this at the hands of the Club.

I'm not going to matches to be negative, I can't do that. But what other way is there to show the Club my displeasure? So I am demonstating my displeasure with my wallet. I'm not investing any more in this team until you do so - either investing in playing staff and/or coaching staff that can address the deficiencies that we have all been aware of for the last six years.

Yours faithfully,

GB. (ex Member - No. xxxxxxx)

I make my point when appropriate and I get behind the team.

[fakeyank]

Have you considered the quality on offer on those days? You saw some shitty matches.

And as for your point in bold, you are too hyper and too quick to judge, which is why you often jump to wrong conclusions. Try to be more considered. And by that, I don't mean considered in the heat of the moment, such as immediately following a loss or watching shit play, because that is when emotions can and do run wild. But there is no excuse for a lack of a considered approach days after a game.



I make my point when appropriate and I get behind the team.

I remember that email and I was really happy that a frequent match goer like you did that.. Now I am sure a fair amount of fans mustve sent an email voicing the same concerns but did it get aired on tv or in the news? No! I bet those emails dont even make it to the right guys. Banners, bin liners, tshirts (yes tshirts) are visible and put the right ppl under pressure.
As for getting behind the team, I think every fan does and should do that... Protesting against the way the club is run should not be misconstrued as not getting behind the team.

[Xhaka Can’t]

So what if it gets on the news? In fact I'd rather it didn't. News is for real news, not for reports on a group of pissed off football fans.

At every post here, you display your naivety. I wasn't expecting my e-mail to spark a wholesale change in direction. And what you promote above, happened at United (well most of it), and the result? Nothing. No change at all. People talk here (myself included) about 'papering over cracks'. Well that is EXACTLY what is happening at Old Trafford right now. When the best Manager in the business retires - and that can't be far away, you'll see the true situation there. A situation that has not changed one iota from the first day of discontent.

As for back at Arsenal, I'm sure that others have e-mailed and it is evident that MANY other people are staying away or at least reducing the amount of times they go. Don't think for one minute that the Marketing guys and the Board haven't got this on their radar. Empty seats and lost revenue will be at the top of their agenda. The thing is, it will take time, it will take a further reduction in the demand that until recently vastly outstripped supply, but there will come a tipping point, just as the tipping point of regularly weakening the team has arrived.

You also discount or are unaware of the efforts of the AST who have put their money where their mouths are. They get speaking to the right people and they get a platform at the Club, and they make it clear to the people that matter what the feelings are. That, and a reduction in people going will be far more effective than throwing tantrums when you should be supporting the team during matches.

[Fats]

Answers are easy.

This is no longer about football, its just business right?.

If any manager or board fails in business what happens? They go under or they change the way they used to trade to become successful.

So the shareholders of that business (fans) must protest if they are not getting a return or they will no longer invest.

Yeah and there is the problem, the emotional attachment. That emotional frustration has to be used wisely. The anger and frustration is evident in the stadium now as a lot of fans were too scared to critisize Wenger, but now this has changed.

If you pay money to go to the games you have every right to boo in the same way you have the right to cheer. Your not there to massage players ego's when they give 50% effort while earning millions. Your there because you love the club, and no individual is bigger than the club, absolutely nobody. We won the league before Wenger and we will win it in the future without him. He is our present manager and that is it. He cant walk on water, and he certainly has no devine right to be here, the same as the players. They must earn the right to play, not just turn up.

So answers are easy its the time limit needed is what fans are worried about. The amount of work needed to pull this around is huge and that is another reason protest is needed. Mistakes have never been learnt from.

These people have to be replaced for failure like you and I would be in our representative places of employment.

We made this club we must take the power back.

[Flavs]

As for noise in stadiums, i have been to a few myself and found arsenal fans to be the quitest. May be I came to watch small games against chelsea n city. I think it will be louder when we play teams of our standard- fulham, west brom etc

Fakeyank makes the ignore list

[Letters]

This is no longer about football, its just business right?.

If any manager or board fails in business what happens? They go under or they change the way they used to trade to become successful.

Yes, Arsenal are a business and as a business we're not failing. If a business aims to make profit by maximising income and restricting expenditure then Arsenal are doing a great job. And that's where fan protests at games will ultimately fail. Because businesses don't care about their customers. Not really. They care about their money of course and that means they have to feign interest in the customers themselves but if people are paying £50 or more to go along and boo then why would the powers that be care about that? They've still got our money. The only effective protest is withdrawal of custom en masse and with the number of tourists and emotional attachment to the club that's not going to happen.

Whaddaya do? :shrug:

[GP]

Yes, Arsenal are a business and as a business we're not failing. If a business aims to make profit by maximising income and restricting expenditure then Arsenal are doing a great job. And that's where fan protests at games will ultimately fail. Because businesses don't care about their customers. Not really. They care about their money of course and that means they have to feign interest in the customers themselves but if people are paying £50 or more to go along and boo then why would the powers that be care about that? They've still got our money. The only effective protest is withdrawal of custom en masse and with the number of tourists and emotional attachment to the club that's not going to happen.

Whaddaya do? :shrug:

Suicide bomb?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yes, Arsenal are a business and as a business we're not failing. If a business aims to make profit by maximising income and restricting expenditure then Arsenal are doing a great job. And that's where fan protests at games will ultimately fail. Because businesses don't care about their customers. Not really. They care about their money of course and that means they have to feign interest in the customers themselves but if people are paying £50 or more to go along and boo then why would the powers that be care about that? They've still got our money. The only effective protest is withdrawal of custom en masse and with the number of tourists and emotional attachment to the club that's not going to happen.

Whaddaya do? :shrug:

Top post sir letters

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yes, Arsenal are a business and as a business we're not failing. If a business aims to make profit by maximising income and restricting expenditure then Arsenal are doing a great job. And that's where fan protests at games will ultimately fail. Because businesses don't care about their customers. Not really. They care about their money of course and that means they have to feign interest in the customers themselves but if people are paying £50 or more to go along and boo then why would the powers that be care about that? They've still got our money. The only effective protest is withdrawal of custom en masse and with the number of tourists and emotional attachment to the club that's not going to happen.

Whaddaya do? :shrug:

Drink beer and eat pies.

[Syn]

Yes, Arsenal are a business and as a business we're not failing. If a business aims to make profit by maximising income and restricting expenditure then Arsenal are doing a great job. And that's where fan protests at games will ultimately fail. Because businesses don't care about their customers. Not really. They care about their money of course and that means they have to feign interest in the customers themselves but if people are paying £50 or more to go along and boo then why would the powers that be care about that? They've still got our money. The only effective protest is withdrawal of custom en masse and with the number of tourists and emotional attachment to the club that's not going to happen.

Whaddaya do? :shrug:

What do you think about the attendances that dropped earlier on in the season? - quite a few league home games were going on general sale and not getting sold out. That never used to happen so regularly. I think fans do hold some power but it just takes too long. A few games in a row (3 or 4) of loud booing and demonstrations outside the ground would cause a reaction from the club, I'm sure. But I don't think our fans are unified against the higher-ups, which is fair enough.

[Coney]

Fakeyank makes the ignore list

Who? :unsure:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

What do you think about the attendances that dropped earlier on in the season? - quite a few league home games were going on general sale and not getting sold out. That never used to happen so regularly. I think fans do hold some power but it just takes too long. A few games in a row (3 or 4) of loud booing and demonstrations outside the ground would cause a reaction from the club, I'm sure. But I don't think our fans are unified against the higher-ups, which is fair enough.

IMO, it won't do anything, never worked for those protesting at old trafford over Green and yellow. Its not worked At blackeye. And i can see this board or AW backing down to fans, Unless fans vote with their feet. All boos do is disrupt the team imo.

I think Arsenal fans are to calm and collected to do things like that anyways.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Who? :unsure:

Why is nobody posting?

[Coney]

I didn't see what you did there.

[Syn]

IMO, it won't do anything, never worked for those protesting at old trafford over Green and yellow. Its not worked At blackeye. And i can see this board or AW backing down to fans, Unless fans vote with their feet. All boos do is disrupt the team imo.

I think Arsenal fans are to calm and collected to do things like that anyways.

Fair point. But with 'booing' and demonstrations, it's all to do with the scale. Not that I would condone it but if 55,000 people stood up in unison and shouted "Fuck off Wenger" for 90 minutes, it'd make a difference - you'd bully him out of the club. That's an extreme example but there is a limit to what the club can ignore. Unfortunately for us, that limit is probably at a point where it'd take something ugly to force change.

[fakeyank]

Fakeyank makes the ignore list

Could someone please tell my friend here that I am devastated by this action.. :(

[Cripps_orig]

Could someone please tell my friend here that I am devastated by this action.. :(I would but apparently the ****s put me on the ignore list as well.

:lol:

[Syn]

Tbf putting you two muppets on the ignore list should be the default setting on the board.

[Cripps_orig]

Tbf putting you two muppets on the ignore list should be the default setting on the board.Couldnt give a fuck tbh. I say what i want when i want and if people dont listen/read then i say it anyway

[Syn]

Couldnt give a fuck tbh. I say what I need to get a reaction and if people dont listen/read then i say go more extreme

That's true enough.

[Marc Overmars]

Couldnt give a fuck tbh. I say what i want when i want and if people dont listen/read then i say it anyway

...and thats the bottom line because Ach said so.

[Cripps_orig]

That's true enough.As long as people dont start insulting each other then its all good tbh which i dont no matter how much posters and by posters i mean one mod provoke me but in the end just ends up looking foolish cos i laugh at him.

Either man up or go to Goonersworld tbh

[Xhaka Can’t]

As long as people dont start insulting each other then its all good tbh which i dont no matter how much posters and by posters i mean one mod provoke me but in the end just ends up looking foolish cos i laugh at him.

Either man up or go to Goonersworld tbh

This is the second account Charlie has hacked in a week.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

This is the second account Charlie has hacked in a week.

Its quite discusting the way Charlie is treated on here

[Xhaka Can’t]

You're a legend.

Don't ever change.

[fakeyank]

Tbf putting you two muppets on the ignore list should be the default setting on the board.

Oh you are so cool with your pot shots :lol:

When I grow older, I want to be just like you on a MB