Profit before transfers. Confirmed.

[Marc Overmars]

Arsene Wenger has ramped up his interest in Lille's £30million-rated forward Eden hazard, but has warned fans he needs to generate the cash if he wants to spend big in the transfer market.
The Arsenal (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/teampages/arsenal.html) boss has long been an admirer of the 21-year-old Belgium international and has now made public his desire to sign him up in the summer.

However, the Frenchman has also revealed he is under pressure to deliver £15m-£20m in profit for the club through transfers each year and will be limited in the transfer market to how much he makes through sales.

Wenger sold Samir Nasri and Cesc Fabregas I the summer for huge profits, raking in a combined £60m for the pair said: 'I really like him (Hazard) and, for several reasons.

It's his creative power, his ability to mis-align the opponent, his vision of the game and his consummate skill to address the last pass which make him a very interesting player.

'You should know that each season, it is imperative to show a profit of between fifteen and twenty million pounds. I would add that the purpose of a coach is to always buy at a price he sees fit.'
Hazard alerted Barclays Premier League elite clubs last month by announcing he intends to leave for France for England at the end of the season.

He said: 'It's impossible for me to leave in January. As I said, I will finish the season at Lille, (as) we can still win a title.
'I'll head to England because I think the style of football fits me and it's where I can learn the most.'
Meanwhile the north London club has announced two money-spinning pre-season trips this summer. The club will travel to Seoul, Beijing and Hong Kong before returning to London and then doing another trip to Nigeria.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2097581/Arsene-Wenger-I-want-Eden-Hazard-need-raise-funds-buy-him.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

:rolleyes:

Shows where the priorities of this club lie.

[server too busy!]

So all those people jumping on Wengers back, I think its clear now where the problem lies. Why have we got these profit mkaing constraints, its impossible to sustain. Looks like RvP will be off next then.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Very misleading article tbh.

It doesnt actually give any evidence as to how he is under pressure to make a profit. The DM make the claim that he is.

Its AW himself who says it is imperative to make a profit of between £15m and £20m, but then doesnt explain or give any reason as to why.

[GP]

Yep, clearest indication yet that his hands are tied by the board.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Well if we finish higher up the league, we get more money. I don't understand it really.

[KSE Comedy Club]

In fact, reading it again he doesnt even say that he needs to make a profit in the transfer market or that he has to raise funds to buy in the first place :rolleyes:

[LDG]

I think we'd need a bit more clarification before jumping the gun. It could mean any number of things.

And we haven't seen the full interview....or how that quote came about....

Profit is a misleading term in itself anyway...

[Kano]

Yep, clearest indication yet that his hands are tied by the board.

combined with the news this morning that we are looking at both far east and african pre-season tours.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

In fact, reading it again he doesnt even say that he needs to make a profit in the transfer market or that he has to raise funds to buy in the first place :rolleyes:

What do you expect with lazy Jurno's from the Daily fail.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

combined with the news this morning that we are looking at both far east and african pre-season tours.

This, ever since Stan has come into the club, he is trying to make profit from which ever market he can. Seems we may see a Wenger Vs the board scenario soon.

[Syn]

Forget about the £15-20m profit. The most annoying thing about this article is that he says he's interested in Hazard. Which means Hazard will be the star man for a 2 or 3 seasons before fucking off to Barcelona, leaving us in 'transition' again. Hasn't Nasri, Cesc and the countless foreign talented young dickheads before that taught you anything, Arsene? Oxlade is our Hazard. Lets try to build a sustainable squad for once - Rooney, Rio and the mancs; Lampard, Terry and Chelsea; Wilshere, Oxlade and Arsenal. Money does need to be spent - but on a few more players like Vermaelen, Koscielny, Sagna, Eduardo. Signings of that nature; come at a good age, around 24 years old, have some experience and aren't supposed to be the next big thing but solid players.

[server too busy!]

I've seen the interview, Wenger says at the start of the season he must make a £15-20m profit. If it were by anything other than player sales why not say by the end of the financial year?

[Kano]

Forget about the £15-20m profit. The most annoying thing about this article is that he says he's interested in Hazard. Which means Hazard will be the star man for a 2 or 3 seasons before fucking off to Barcelona, leaving us in 'transition' again. Hasn't Nasri, Cesc and the countless foreign talented young dickheads before that taught you anything, Arsene? Oxlade is our Hazard. Lets try to build a sustainable squad for once - Rooney, Rio and the mancs; Lampard, Terry and Chelsea; Wilshere, Oxlade and Arsenal. Money does need to be spent - but on a few more players like Vermaelen, Koscielny, Sagna, Eduardo. Signings of that nature; come at a good age, around 24 years old, have some experience and aren't supposed to be the next big thing but solid players.

we have wilshere, gibbs, scsyearjky, the ox, ramsey, frimpong (if he ever walks again) cocklin, jenkinson - a pretty solid base to build on i'd say.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Forget about the £15-20m profit. The most annoying thing about this article is that he says he's interested in Hazard. Which means Hazard will be the star man for a 2 or 3 seasons before fucking off to Barcelona, leaving us in 'transition' again. Hasn't Nasri, Cesc and the countless foreign talented young dickheads before that taught you anything, Arsene? Oxlade is our Hazard. Lets try to build a sustainable squad for once - Rooney, Rio and the mancs; Lampard, Terry and Chelsea; Wilshere, Oxlade and Arsenal. Money does need to be spent - but on a few more players like Vermaelen, Koscielny, Sagna, Eduardo. Signings of that nature; come at a good age, around 24 years old, have some experience and aren't supposed to be the next big thing but solid players.

You keep saying this and I keep pointing out we sell players to Citeh now (four in the last couple of years)! I expect that to be the case for any of the kind of players you mention. The reason being I can't expect those 'sustainable' players to want to stay at Arsenal, regardless of nationality if we keep falling down the league. Mentioning Rio and Rooney is a bit odd given they were bought for huge sums and are able to 'sustain' them because they have achieved success again and again, that success achieved by supplementing them with those players you suppose would 'fuck off'; like Ronaldo for instance.

[server too busy!]

You keep saying this and I keep pointing out we sell players to Citeh now (four in the last couple of years)! I expect that to be the case for any of the kind of players you mention. The reason being I can't expect those 'sustainable' players to want to stay at Arsenal, regardless of nationality if we keep falling down the league. Mentioning Rio and Rooney is a bit odd given they were bought for huge sums and are able to 'sustain' them because they have achieved success again and again, that success achieved by supplementing them with those players you suppose would 'fuck off'; like Ronaldo for instance.

And lets not forget, wasn't Rooney on the brink of leaving for City last season!

[LDG]

Been trying to read into this a bit more, and see if I can make any sense of it.

Pure speculation this, but I think he's talking about self-sustainability again, and that if we want to buy someone like Hazard for 30mil, then he has to fund it somehow, buy giving himself some cash through selling players, and balancing current contracts etc.

I think to him, it's not just black and white, i.e. you buy to improve the team. I think he genuinely trys to juggle everything in order to take into account everything to do with player costs, from resgistration through to ammortisation of contracts, through to player sales.

I think he's feeding a soundbite in to let people know he has to balance the books first in order to make that kind of purchase.

Dunno. Might be completely wrong, but it would fit in with the whole self-sustaining crap.

[Syn]

You keep saying this and I keep pointing out we sell players to Citeh now (four in the last couple of years)! I expect that to be the case for any of the kind of players you mention. The reason being I can't expect those 'sustainable' players to want to stay at Arsenal, regardless of nationality if we keep falling down the league. Mentioning Rio and Rooney is a bit odd given they were bought for huge sums and are able to 'sustain' them because they have achieved success again and again, that success achieved by supplementing them with those players you suppose would 'fuck off'; like Ronaldo for instance.

We wouldn't keep falling down the league if we made more signings of the type I'm proposing. Obviously if we slide down the table then you are at risk of players feeling better about moving to the league leaders because the top teams are no longer your rivals. You talk about losing to players to Man City - not one of them were English. But I accept that Clichy and Toure were as good as 'English' in the sense that they had been long-serving players but it was more our decision to get rid of them rather than them forcing a move. Nasri and Adebayor forced moves. And Nasri, in particular, was one of those highly-rated foreign youngsters that I'm saying we need to avoid. So I don't see the inconsistency.

Tottenham have got it right. They've got their core of predominantly British players - Bale, Walker, Lennon, Dawson and others, and mixed them in relatively established players in the squad. Their star young player is Bale. He's not going anywhere. I'm not against signing players like Modric because Modric isn't Cesc Fabregas - he's not one of the world's best central midfielders and never will be - but players like Modric would definitely improve us. And I think - with the current crop of future talent (Szczesny, Coquelin, Wilshere, Oxlade, Jenkinson, Ramsey, Gibbs) - we will get it right also. We just need not to throw them all in at once and need more solid signings like Arteta around them.

The English premium exists for a reason. There is sound statistical and theoretical thinking behind what I'm saying. Many people think clubs are crazy for paying over the odds for English players. They're not crazy. Statistically, they are much less likely to force moves. Not because they're inherently better people. But because they're more averse to a change in surroundings. Rooney hasn't even mastered English, how is he going to learn Spanish? British players are statistically more likely to stay by the club. Ronaldo did pissing off and Rooney and Rio are staying is not a surprise or a statistical anomaly. Cashley pissing off is a statistical anomaly. Henderson going for £20m or Chamberlain for £15m or Rooney for £30m - at the time of their purchase, they didn't have the reputation of being as good as Gotze or Hazard...probably because they weren't not as good as Gotze or Hazard. But clubs pay big money for English players because they think the way I do - in the long run, it's more likely to pay off. Of course if you're interested in making money - as we are - then by all means go for Hazard as we'll get double his transfer fee in a few seasons time.

[server too busy!]

Been trying to read into this a bit more, and see if I can make any sense of it.

Pure speculation this, but I think he's talking about self-sustainability again, and that if we want to buy someone like Hazard for 30mil, then he has to fund it somehow, buy giving himself some cash through selling players, and balancing current contracts etc.

I think to him, it's not just black and white, i.e. you buy to improve the team. I think he genuinely trys to juggle everything in order to take into account everything to do with player costs, from resgistration through to ammortisation of contracts, through to player sales.

I think he's feeding a soundbite in to let people know he has to balance the books first in order to make that kind of purchase.

Dunno. Might be completely wrong, but it would fit in with the whole self-sustaining crap.

So where does the extra revenue from ticket sales and sponsorship go? They should be used to balance books not using player sales. If we're that hard up that its a struggle to be self sustaining, then sort out the sponsorship side of it. Get rid of fringe players earning £70k a week. How can we possibly be poorer than before our stadium move. Weren't we self sustaining then as well?

[Syn]

And lets not forget, wasn't Rooney on the brink of leaving for City last season!

He didn't leave though.

[server too busy!]

Thats because Man Utd gave him £250k a week. Would we do that?

[LDG]

So where does the extra revenue from ticket sales and sponsorship go? They should be used to balance books not using player sales. If we're that hard up that its a struggle to be self sustaining, then sort out the sponsorship side of it. Get rid of fringe players earning £70k a week. How can we possibly be poorer than before our stadium move. Weren't we self sustaining then as well?

Dunno. That's why I said "pure specualtion".

I was reading through an old set of accounts, post 2006 season, I think....and just looking at how they were presented. It is a hell of a lot more complicated that people think....and as I've always said, profit doesn't equal cash in the bank.

I'm sure there will be a lot of interest in this years accounts, and where it'll leave us going forward...but, again, we'll never know exactly what's going on, or indeed, financial plans going forward.

*sigh*

Comments like Arsene's one above are there for a reason. He's a clever bloke...but sometimes, leaving something dangling like that for fans to rip to pieces does more harm than good....

[Coney]

Well if we finish higher up the league, we get more money. I don't understand it really.

That's what doesn't make sense to me either. If we skimp on spending on players saving (say) 20 million and then because of that fail to get a top 4 spot, then we lose at least twice that - probably much more - in straight revenue from the CL as well as the gate money from all the extra matches. Further potential loss of shirt sales overseas in the long run if we are not seen as a top side. If what the Daily Heil says is true then the board are cretins.

Mind you "if what the Daily Heil says is true". Hmmh. Could be utter bollocks. Did they say how they know that he has a directive to make that profit in the transfer arena? Would Wenger have accepted such a contract? I find that hard to believe. Still, I find anything that the Daily Heil prints hard to believe full stop.

[Syn]

Thats because Man Utd gave him £250k a week. Would we do that?

Can't be that much, surely. But I do think Rooney made this play to try to get the best possible deal he could. I don't believe he ever intended to leave. We're in a similar position with Van Persie, I think. Van Persie's not going anywhere but he won't commit in order to get the best deal.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Does the article really tell us anything we did not already know though?.

[Power n Glory]

FIFA Fair Play rules, maybe??

[Coney]

Can't be that much, surely. But I do think Rooney made this play to try to get the best possible deal he could. I don't believe he ever intended to leave. We're in a similar position with Van Persie, I think. Van Persie's not going anywhere but he won't commit in order to get the best deal.

He would be stupid to do anything else. Top PL scorer? Should carry a premium. Especially at the Arsenal when the others can't hit an elephant's arse with a banjo.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We wouldn't keep falling down the league if we made more signings of the type I'm proposing. Obviously if we slide down the table then you are at risk of players feeling better about moving to the league leaders because the top teams are no longer your rivals. You talk about losing to players to Man City - not one of them were English. But I accept that Clichy and Toure were as good as 'English' in the sense that they had been long-serving players but it was more our decision to get rid of them rather than them forcing a move. Nasri and Adebayor forced moves. And Nasri, in particular, was one of those highly-rated foreign youngsters that I'm saying we need to avoid. So I don't see the inconsistency.

Tottenham have got it right. They've got their core of predominantly British players - Bale, Walker, Lennon, Dawson and others, and mixed them in relatively established players in the squad. Their star young player is Bale. He's not going anywhere. I'm not against signing players like Modric because Modric isn't Cesc Fabregas - he's not one of the world's best central midfielders and never will be - but players like Modric would definitely improve us. And I think - with the current crop of future talent (Szczesny, Coquelin, Wilshere, Oxlade, Jenkinson, Ramsey, Gibbs) - we will get it right also. We just need not to throw them all in at once and need more solid signings like Arteta around them.

The English premium exists for a reason. There is sound statistical and theoretical thinking behind what I'm saying. Many people think clubs are crazy for paying over the odds for English players. They're not crazy. Statistically, they are much less likely to force moves. Not because they're inherently better people. But because they're more averse to a change in surroundings. Rooney hasn't even mastered English, how is he going to learn Spanish? British players are statistically more likely to stay by the club. Ronaldo did pissing off and Rooney and Rio are staying is not a surprise or a statistical anomaly. Cashley pissing off is a statistical anomaly. Henderson going for £20m or Chamberlain for £15m or Rooney for £30m - at the time of their purchase, they didn't have the reputation of being as good as Gotze or Hazard...probably because they weren't not as good as Gotze or Hazard. But clubs pay big money for English players because they think the way I do - in the long run, it's more likely to pay off. Of course if you're interested in making money - as we are - then by all means go for Hazard as we'll get double his transfer fee in a few seasons time.

So what none of them were English? Two of them were involved in the Unbeaten season. You mentioned players like Vermaelen, Koscielny, Sagna. Your whole argument since we've been on GW is that we should have more of those players afraid to try outside England. The idea that it's only ever the players not from England that will want to go abroad is becoming more and more obsolete as Citeh's money is too tempting for us.

It'll happen that we sell an English player to Citeh if we continue the way we're going. Does that mean to say the trend is irreversible and that we we will never get back to where we were? Of course not but this fearfulness of buying players that might go on to leave in a few years is silly if in those few years we get back to somewhere approaching where we were. You don't seem to be recognising that mentioning Rooney going abroad is misguided because Man Utd are always near to winning something, granted that's probably because of their manager but I now realise there's not going to be a danger of Rooney going whilst they still win things (and I think they will win the league). We aren't in that position anymore, we'll be like where Tottenham were after they sold Carrick to Man Utd. Their English players have the safety blanket of being involved in at least one of the two best sides in the country.

Clichy is not a superstar, nor will he ever be but he is a player of what we probably have a similar level of now. Tottenham point blank refused to sell Modric (to Chelsea), even though he wanted to go; we (initially) point blank refused to sell Cesc but on Wenger's recommendation we eventually waivered.

In the case of Man Utd selling Ronaldo for such a huge figure has probably set them up for a good few seasons, I think in the long run that one has payed off for them!

If we commit to more often that not buying Englsh players and we still need to maintain a profit, who is going to be sold?

[Coney]

Does the article really tell us anything we did not already know though?.

Does the article quote Wenger directly? No.

Does the Daily Heil consistenly print reliable unbiased articles about anything at all? No.

Is it possibly complete and utter bollocks written by a hack just to get his beer money for the week? Yes.

[LDG]

I should have though that the questions on which his quotes are based are rather far apart tbh.

And who's to say, without the benefit of the full interview, whether he was asked about all kinds of players, not just Hazard.

I hate these fucking articles, because you know half of it's shit, twisted and sensationalist.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Does the article quote Wenger directly? No.

Does the Daily Heil consistenly print reliable unbiased articles about anything at all? No.

Is it possibly complete and utter bollocks written by a hack just to get his beer money for the week? Yes.

True, i'm always skeptical about stories from the daily fail, especially when its not where else tbh.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

FIFA Fair Play rules, maybe??

Possibly. It's funny but we're almost in a weaker position because those Fair Play rules are reliant on the clubs showing they aren't making greater losses every season. We have a lot less leeway than other clubs do.

[Coney]

I hate these fucking articles, because you know half of it's shit, twisted and sensationalist.

I can't imagine anyone suggesting that kind of stuff from the Daily Heil. ;)

[Fist of Lehmann]

Does the article quote Wenger directly? No.
No? Aren't the sections in quote marks 'quotes'?

[Syn]

So what none of them were English? Two of them were involved in the Unbeaten season. You mentioned players like Vermaelen, Koscielny, Sagna. Your whole argument since we've been on GW is that we should have more of those players afraid to try outside England. It's only ever the players not from England that will want to go abroad is becoming more and more obsolete as Citeh's money is too tempting for us.

My argument is that having your star players as foreign youngsters is more likely to backfire than if your star young players were English. I've already said the two involved in the unbeaten season were as good as English in the sense that they had been at the club a long time, but it was our decision to get rid of them and they weren't better-than-average for a CL level club. Nasri and Adebayor forced moves and were better-than-average for a CL club and so their loss would've hurt us and benefited Man City (though luckily as it turns out, it seems neither have made much impact so far). They were sold to an English club - and you're right that my general argument is more that foreign youngsters are more likely to move because they're more likely to move abroad. But the difference is in whether they forced moves. Toure and Clichy as the 'English' players we had didn't force moves. They didn't poach Clichy or Toure, we were more than happy to sell to them because they wouldn't have improved Man City. And they haven't. They're just fillers that they could've got anywhere else. And losing Toure or Clichy hasn't weakened us. Losing Toure quite obviously hasn't affected us. If we didn't lose Clichy we wouldn't have got Santos. And I think most would agree Santos is the player we'd rather want at LB - it's unfortunate (well...maybe not given it's Arsenal) that he has got injured.


It'll happen that we sell an English player to Citeh if we continue the way we're going. Does that mean to say the trend is irreversible and that we we will never get back to where we were? Of course not but this fearfulness of buying players that might go on to leave in a few years is silly if in those few years we get back to somewhere approaching where we were. You don't seem to be getting that mentioning Rooney going abroad is silly because Man Utd are always near to winning something, granted that's probably because of their manager but I now realise there's not going to be a danger of Rooney going whilst they still win things (and I think they will win the league). We aren't in that position anymore, we'll be like where Tottenham were after they sold Carrick to Man Utd. Their English players have the safety blanket of being at least one of the two best sides in the country.

The day our most valuable players; Ramsey (premium), Walcott (premium), Vermaelen, Van Persie, Wilshere or Oxlade to Man City, I'll start to re-think my view. Until then, I'm not concerned about Man City poaching our players unless they're highly-rated, highly-talented youngsters. The concern with slipping down the table and becoming a feeder club to the top teams isn't relevant, I don't think, because I am proposing that we are more likely to get success without buying the top rated talent out there. Because with the top rated talent, they won't stay until we win, they will leave as soon as they can, setting us back in 'transition' to fill the void left. That is what has been happening. I know you'll say that it is then our job to get in more of those top rated talent and ensure we win something so they stay. I've never felt that is true. I don't think Ronaldo or Tevez or whoever else felt inclined to stay because Man Utd were winning and I don't think Rooney or Ferdinand stayed because they were winning. It's deeper than that. I wouldn't describe it as 'loyalty' because Rooney isn't loyal. But it's just an unwillingness to go outside the comfort zone. Of course, as you say, if Man Utd had slipped down the table - outside the CL spots - then of course they would likely be off.


Clichy is not a superstar, nor will he ever be but he is a player of what we probably have a similar level of now. Tottenham point blank refused to sell Modric (to Chelsea), we (initially) point blank refused to sell Cesc but on Wenger's recommendation we eventually waivered.

In the case of Man Utd selling Ronaldo for such a huge figure has probably set them up for a good few seasons, I think in the long run that one has payed off for them!

I've talked about Clichy. About Cesc - I don't believe we could realistically have kept him. It was clear he wanted to leave and his performances (arguably his motivation) had dropped considerably last season after his heroic 09/10 efforts. I would've loved nothing more than for Wenger to say "you've got this contract, and you're staying" but when he gets to 26 or 27 you lose him on a free after a few seasons of sub-par performances. Not ideal for club or player IMO. About Modric - as I've said, I don't believe he is relatively 'highly-sought after' and I think he's a tier below the level of talent I'm talking about. I know it probably looks like I'm adding these player-ratings ad-hoc to suit my argument :lol: But I'm trying to call it like it is - I don't think Chelsea would be too concerned and would be looking to attract players like Mata; he's not worth the effort stalking over like Barca with Cesc.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

My argument is that having your star players as foreign youngsters is more likely to backfire than if your star young players were English. I've already said the two involved in the unbeaten season were as good as English in the sense that they had been at the club a long time, but it was our decision to get rid of them and they weren't better-than-average for a CL level club. Nasri and Adebayor forced moves and were better-than-average for a CL club and so their loss would've hurt us and benefited Man City (though luckily as it turns out, it seems neither have made much impact so far). They were sold to an English club - and you're right that my general argument is more that foreign youngsters are more likely to move because they're more likely to move abroad. But the difference is in whether they forced moves. Toure and Clichy as the 'English' players we had didn't force moves. They didn't poach Clichy or Toure, we were more than happy to sell to them because they wouldn't have improved Man City. And they haven't. They're just fillers that they could've got anywhere else. And losing Toure or Clichy hasn't weakened us. Losing Toure quite obviously hasn't affected us. If we didn't lose Clichy we wouldn't have got Santos. And I think most would agree Santos is the player we'd rather want at LB - it's unfortunate (well...maybe not given it's Arsenal) that he has got injured.



The day our most valuable players; Ramsey (premium), Walcott (premium), Vermaelen, Van Persie, Wilshere or Oxlade to Man City, I'll start to re-think my view. Until then, I'm not concerned about Man City poaching our players unless they're highly-rated, highly-talented youngsters. The concern with slipping down the table and becoming a feeder club to the top teams isn't relevant, I don't think, because I am proposing that we are more likely to get success without buying the top rated talent out there. Because with the top rated talent, they won't stay until we win, they will leave as soon as they can, setting us back in 'transition' to fill the void left. That is what has been happening. I know you'll say that it is then our job to get in more of those top rated talent and ensure we win something so they stay. I've never felt that is true. I don't think Ronaldo or Tevez or whoever else felt inclined to stay because Man Utd were winning and I don't think Rooney or Ferdinand stayed because they were winning. It's deeper than that. I wouldn't describe it as 'loyalty' because Rooney isn't loyal. But it's just an unwillingness to go outside the comfort zone. Of course, as you say, if Man Utd had slipped down the table - outside the CL spots - then of course they would likely be off.


I've talked about Clichy. About Cesc - I don't believe we could realistically have kept him. It was clear he wanted to leave and his performances (arguably his motivation) had dropped considerably last season after his heroic 09/10 efforts. I would've loved nothing more than for Wenger to say "you've got this contract, and you're staying" but when he gets to 26 or 27 you lose him on a free after a few seasons of sub-par performances. Not ideal for club or player IMO. About Modric - as I've said, I don't believe he is relatively 'highly-sought after' and I think he's a tier below the level of talent I'm talking about. I know it probably looks like I'm adding these player-ratings ad-hoc to suit my argument :lol: But I'm trying to call it like it is - I don't think Chelsea would be too concerned and would be looking to attract players like Mata; he's not worth the effort stalking over like Barca with Cesc.

A move can only be 'forced' so far, if a club has no willingness to sell to the buying club then it just won't happen. It also becomes a sliding scale, you show that you're willing to do business with one club, the next time they come along another player probably realises there is a possibility of it happening. We've done it enough times to other clubs, Citeh will be able to do it to us from now on. That those players have not gone on to particularly proven themselves just means it's a transfer that hasn't really favoured anyone but as Barca have shown (after Hleb particularly) they will keep coming back for our players and we'll keep selling.

In Rio's and Rooney's case, I'm not attempting to call it loyalty, I'm not even saying they are still there because they're likely to achieve success, it's more that it's a concern they don't even need to think about. The success there is second nature, not even considering the fact it's Manchester United we're talking about.

Chelsea have a willingness to find quality alternatives to those that they can't get, we don't. :lol:

And you didn't answer my closing question, who will we have left to sell, if it is true it's a necessity to make a profit?

[LDG]

Maccy, do you not think that the "making profit" bit is more a broad brush statement though? He's saying we need to clear the decks in order to fund a transfer of that magnitude.

I.e. get rid of some of the also-rans, making a quick buck on players like Clichy and Toure, who were surplus to requirements.

What I get from all of this, by way of his comment "at the start of the season", is that he needs to have a surplus of cash, plus a bit more in oder to balance the squad, balance the books, and maybe (if this is linked to his Hazard comments) to fund a big money buy....but let's not forget, he also says that it is his job to determin whether someone like Hazard is worth the price tag.

This is why we have Arteta instead of Mata for instance....value for money v's what they give each team is quite a stark contrast when you consider the sums of money involved....and it's clear we don't have free cash to spunk.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Maccy, do you not think that the "making profit" bit is more a broad brush statement though? He's saying we need to clear the decks in order to fund a transfer of that magnitude.

I.e. get rid of some of the also-rans, making a quick buck on players like Clichy and Toure, who were surplus to requirements.

What I get from all of this, by way of his comment "at the start of the season", is that he needs to have a surplus of cash, plus a bit more in oder to balance the squad, balance the books, and maybe (if this is linked to his Hazard comments) to fund a big money buy....but let's not forget, he also says that it is his job to determin whether someone like Hazard is worth the price tag.

This is why we have Arteta instead of Mata for instance....value for money v's what they give each team is quite a stark contrast when you consider the sums of money involved....and it's clear we don't have free cash to spunk.

It could be solely limited to players going out and coming in it's true but then we also know that we post profits in a financial year including everything. We do all the 'clearing' even without ever making a transfer of that magnitude.

[fakeyank]

Wenger is to blame tbh..

[Power n Glory]

Journo's aren't doing a good job, but what else is new. Someone should really pin him down on that quote and get him to eloborate.

[LDG]

Journo's aren't doing a good job, but what else is new. Someone should really pin him down on that quote and get him to eloborate.

I agree.

I think it's one thing every Arsenal fan wants. To be told exactly what is going on regarding cash....because if they came out and said, sorry, we're skint, and we can't afford it....we have to make do with what we've got, then most people would be "fair enough"....

[GP]

I agree.

I think it's one thing every Arsenal fan wants. To be told exactly what is going on regarding cash....because if they came out and said, sorry, we're skint, and we can't afford it....we have to make do with what we've got, then most people would be "fair enough"....

I wouldn't. I'd be furious. There's really no reason for that to be true.

We aren't skint, of course. There's money there. The board just don't want to release it.

Those are the facts, unfortunately.

[LDG]

I wouldn't. I'd be furious. There's really no reason for that to be true.

We aren't skint, of course. There's money there. The board just don't want to release it.

Those are the facts, unfortunately.

Yeah, I did mean, tell the truth....and if truth was, they had no money, fair enough. Of course they have shitloads of the stuff.....but we're not being told where that's going either.

[Ollie the Optimist]

so if i have this right, last summer we made 5 million for cesc, and 20 million for nasri. giving us a budget of 25 million once 20 million profit taken out. so using that logic, reason we signed no one was because we blew it all in the summer?

if thats correct, what the fuck are hill wood, kronke and usmanov doing to our club. fucking ****s

[Kano]

I agree.

I think it's one thing every Arsenal fan wants. To be told exactly what is going on regarding cash....because if they came out and said, sorry, we're skint, and we can't afford it....we have to make do with what we've got, then most people would be "fair enough"....

but what company would do that to paying customers?

[Fist of Lehmann]

It could be solely limited to players going out and coming in it's true but then we also know that we post profits in a financial year including everything. We do all the 'clearing' even without ever making a transfer of that magnitude.Wasn't it last year that we reported a small interim loss? The lack of significant sales in the previous summer were widely blamed as I recall.

A profit of 15-20M each season is a significant amount for a football club, particularly in light of the fact that most of them don't make profits. Wenger doesn't mention where the profit has to come from, to a lehmann, transfer trading is the most obvious source.

It's the word imperative that makes me wonder. The implies that it's essential to the club to make this lump of profit every season. Profit also implies that our operating costs are already covered. As only majority shareholder I don't think KSE can cream off profits in the way the Glazers do, at least not without everyone knowing. And besides the way Wenger says it suggests that this has been the case for a while.

[fakeyank]

so if i have this right, last summer we made 5 million for cesc, and 20 million for nasri. giving us a budget of 25 million once 20 million profit taken out. so using that logic, reason we signed no one was because we blew it all in the summer?

if thats correct, what the fuck are hill wood, kronke and usmanov doing to our club. fucking ****s

They paid 5 million for Cesc? :unsure:

Barca didnt pay the entire fee upfront but from what I recall reading, it was around the 18 million quid that they paid up front. Add to that the 20 million for the lesbian. Plus the TV deals, CL money and 3 million/home game... Let's not forget the profits we had made earlier from Ade, Toure, Clichy, Hleb etc.

I just do not see how the board can be blamed alone for holding up cash when Arsene is nodding his head in agreement to what they are giving him! Look at SAF.. that guy didnt take any shit and always got the players he wanted. If he didnt, I am sure he wouldve quit Utd and not laze around destroying his legacy like AW. Its very simple, if the board is not giving funds and helping the football club, Arsene should quit... unfortunately he hasnt and has been a mouthpiece for the board. While I can understand boardroom ****s to be greedy and leeching off the club, I cannot for one second tolerate a top level football manager like AW standing for shit like that.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

so if i have this right, last summer we made 5 million for cesc, and 20 million for nasri. giving us a budget of 25 million once 20 million profit taken out. so using that logic, reason we signed no one was because we blew it all in the summer?

if thats correct, what the fuck are hill wood, kronke and usmanov doing to our club. fucking ****s

Im sure we made more then 5 mill for cesc ?

[Power n Glory]

Didn't we also spend £60m? So how much was left in the pot after we went to market?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

They paid 5 million for Cesc? :unsure:

Barca didnt pay the entire fee upfront but from what I recall reading, it was around the 18 million quid that they paid up front. Add to that the 20 million for the lesbian. Plus the TV deals, CL money and 3 million/home game... Let's not forget the profits we had made earlier from Ade, Toure, Clichy, Hleb etc.

I just do not see how the board can be blamed alone for holding up cash when Arsene is nodding his head in agreement to what they are giving him! Look at SAF.. that guy didnt take any shit and always got the players he wanted. If he didnt, I am sure he wouldve quit Utd and not laze around destroying his legacy like AW. Its very simple, if the board is not giving funds and helping the football club, Arsene should quit... unfortunately he hasnt and has been a mouthpiece for the board. While I can understand boardroom ****s to be greedy and leeching off the club, I cannot for one second tolerate a top level football manager like AW standing for shit like that.

And gone where, SAF would never have left UTD if that happend he has too much control there to want to go anywhere else, if he wanted to go why did he not go when they did the green and yellow protests he sure as hell did not agree with them.

Only Wenger can know why he is sticking up for the board annoying as it is, maybe he was thinking if they sack me where do i go etc, so he has just gone along with them. Truth og the matter no one really knows and probs never will.

[fakeyank]

And gone where, SAF would never have left UTD if that happend he has too much control there to want to go anywhere else, if he wanted to go why did he not go when they did the green and yellow protests he sure as hell did not agree with them.

Only Wenger can know why he is sticking up for the board annoying as it is, maybe he was thinking if they sack me where do i go etc, so he has just gone along with them. Truth og the matter no one really knows and probs never will.

SAF wouldve retired... he doesnt have anything to prove to anyone. Arsene will be welcomed at other clubs like RM, PSG and many others.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Im sure we made more then 5 mill for cesc ?

should have explained it better, meant made 5 million after taking 20 million out for profit. (i think whole transfer was 25 million)

[Coney]

No? Aren't the sections in quote marks 'quotes'?

Where it says "the Frenchman has also revealed he is under pressure to deliver £15m-£20m in profit for the club through transfers each year" - he is not quoted as saying that. He is quoted as saying there should be a profit for the club but he does not specify where that profit should come from.

[Özim]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2097581/Arsene-Wenger-I-want-Eden-Hazard-need-raise-funds-buy-him.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

:rolleyes:

Shows where the priorities of this club lie.
More importantly we will never get Hazard, if you pay peanuts you get monkeys, Hazard is out of our league finances wise the way we run the club.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

restricted by the board

the amount of messages he's sent out over the past few months:

'if you sell nasri and cesc you cannot persuade people you are a top club'

'it would be stupid for us to drop points because we do not have a left back'

'need to make £20m a year'

add to that the fact we know the board restrict wages.

board needs to go.

cant wait for wengers book in 10 years time.

[Cripps_orig]

Wenger is the one who went to the board and told them to sell Cesc for a lower price than what we wanted.

Wenger and the board need to go :good:

[Özim]

Wenger is the one who went to the board and told them to sell Cesc for a lower price than what we wanted.

Wenger and the board need to go :good:
Pretty much, they are complicit in this, I hate the notion of poor old Wenger having a hard time and being the scapegoat, the pr*ck earns 6 million a year FFS he's just as much part of this as the board.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wenger is the one who went to the board and told them to sell Cesc for a lower price than what we wanted.

Wenger and the board need to go :good:

no he never

[Coney]

Wenger is the one who went to the board and told them to sell Cesc for a lower price than what we wanted.

Where on Earth is the source of that information?????

[Xhaka Can’t]

Where on Earth is the source of that information?????

Another 'fact' pulled out of his arse.

[Marc Overmars]

Vinegar is responsible for the maddening on the pitch capitulations, he's had years to address the problem and construct a team who have a grasp of the basic fundamentals. That doesn't take millions because plenty of lesser teams have got the better of us in games over the last few years.

However I think the board are probably the reason why we can't/won't compete in the transfer market for top names.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Another 'fact' pulled out of his arse.

:gp:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Pretty much, they are complicit in this, I hate the notion of poor old Wenger having a hard time and being the scapegoat, the pr*ck earns 6 million a year FFS he's just as much part of this as the board.

No one is saying he is a scapegoat, no one us saying he is not, because no one not even you no matter how much you hate the guy can say what goes on at the club or at board level.

[Özim]

Vinegar is responsible for the maddening on the pitch capitulations, he's had years to address the problem and construct a team who have a grasp of the basic fundamentals. That doesn't take millions because plenty of lesser teams have got the better of us in games over the last few years.

However I think the board are probably the reason why we can't/won't compete in the transfer market for top names.
Chop his salary in three and you've got another 4 million to spend, if he loves the club so much maybe he should suggest it, it's not exactly hard to survive on 2 million a year.

He'd never do that of course.

[Cripps_orig]

no he neverYes he did :good:

[Özim]

No one is saying he is a scapegoat, no one us saying he is not, because no one not even you no matter how much you hate the guy can say what goes on at the club or at board level.


I've had this cr*p for years now, noone knows what going on, he does his talking behind closed doors, Wenger knows.....i'm friggin sick of it now, it's pretty clear what's going on, the board only give a sh*t about money and Wenger only gives a sh*t about delivering a profit so he can pick up his 6 million. If he really cared about results as much as people say we wouldn't be seeing the sh*t we've seen over the last few years, it smell of total incompetence.

This love for the club b*llocks is just that, the way he treats the fans (who basically are the club) is despicable IMO.

[Coney]

Vinegar is responsible for the maddening on the pitch capitulations

Yes, I thought our failure to come back from 0-2 down against Villa in the cup, or to recover after Blackburn equalised last week showed a distinct lack of desire.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Wenger knows

:faint:

[Marc Overmars]

Yes, I thought our failure to come back from 0-2 down against Villa in the cup, or to recover after Blackburn equalised last week showed a distinct lack of desire.

Pedantic old man.

[Coney]

no he never


Yes he did :good:

Oh no he didn't.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yes he did :good:

And you have proof of this how, never knew you was in the room when the transfer was being discuessd.

[Coney]

Pedantic old man.

Pedantist :sulk:

[AKBapologist]

*Hears the sound of the (only) penny dropping on GW."

:coffee:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Oh no he didn't.


He's behind you.

[Coney]

He's behind you.

So's your face.

[Cripps_orig]

Where on Earth is the source of that information?????http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/sep/05/cesc-fabregas-arsene-wenger-arsenal


"Without him I would not be a Barça player now, he convinced the owners of Arsenal, who would not sell under any circumstances, to lower the price," Fábregas said.

Slightly worrying for GW that my arse knows more about Arsenal than a mod but considering who the mod is, its not surprising.

I accept his apology

[Cripps_orig]

And you have proof of this how, never knew you was in the room when the transfer was being discuessd.I accept your apology as well

[Cripps_orig]

Pretty much, they are complicit in this, I hate the notion of poor old Wenger having a hard time and being the scapegoat, the pr*ck earns 6 million a year FFS he's just as much part of this as the board.Stop speaking sense.

Wenger is god. Our beloved mod on here says so

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/sep/05/cesc-fabregas-arsene-wenger-arsenal



Slightly worrying for GW that my arse knows more about Arsenal than a mod but considering who the mod is, its not surprising.

I accept his apology

Fabregas' statement makes no sense. If you arent going to sell under any circumstances why would you be persuaded sell at a lower price? If I'm trying to persuade someone to do something they don't want, I try to make the proposition more rather than less attractive.

But hey, we all know how giddy you get when you think of Cesc.

[Cripps_orig]

:lol:

And the reaching has started

Me and my know it all arse accept your apology nevertheless

[Xhaka Can’t]

Stop speaking sense.

Wenger is god. Our beloved mod on here says so

This being the mod that wanted him sacked a year before you did a complete 180 in your wummery?

[Cripps_orig]

Look at him, trying to save face knowing hes made a right fool of himself :lol:

You'd have thought he'd be used to it by now.

Apparently not. Oh well more fun times lie ahead on GW cos of it so i aint complaining

[Coney]

Na na na na na

[Özim]

Fabregas' statement makes no sense. If you arent going to sell under any circumstances why would you be persuaded sell at a lower price? If I'm trying to persuade someone to do something they don't want, I try to make the proposition more rather than less attractive.

But hey, we all know how giddy you get when you think of Cesc.
Come on, you joked that he pulled that out of thin air, he then provides evidence and you then discount it.

Why would Cesc lie exactly, what has he to gain?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Fabregas' statement makes no sense. If you arent going to sell under any circumstances why would you be persuaded sell at a lower price? If I'm trying to persuade someone to do something they don't want, I try to make the proposition more rather than less attractive.

But hey, we all know how giddy you get when you think of Cesc.

Just Cesc having a pop at the board while praising wenger all that Article really does. Come to think of it i have never heard 1 player that has left us that has ever said a good word about this board.

[Cripps_orig]

Come on, you joked that he pulled that out of his arse, he then provides evidence and you then discount it.

Why would Cesc lie exactly, what has he to gain?Just corrected your little mistake there

[Cripps_orig]

Just Cesc having a pop at the board while prasing wenger all that Article really does. Come to think of it i have never heard 1 player that has left us that has ever said a good word about this board.Most importantly it proves me right :good:

[fakeyank]

Fabregas' statement makes no sense. If you arent going to sell under any circumstances why would you be persuaded sell at a lower price? If I'm trying to persuade someone to do something they don't want, I try to make the proposition more rather than less attractive.

But hey, we all know how giddy you get when you think of Cesc.

How does Cesc's comments not make sense? AW has a big say in what player stays and what goes. When he saw that Cesc had his heart set on going to Barca, he went to the board and asked them to agree to Barca's price.

IMO AW is literally the be all and end all regarding football matters at this club. A case of a man being too big for the club and that should never happen... especially when the man has lost his mojo.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Come on, you joked that he pulled that out of thin air, he then provides evidence and you then discount it.

Why would Cesc lie exactly, what has he to gain?

I don't know why Cesc would say that. But it makes no sense...his statement. If i want to persuade someone to do something, I make it more, rather than less attractive for them to take a course of action, unless I think I'm dealing with a fool.

I doubt anyone is arguing the Cesc situation was handled well, but there were two options - sell to the only team in the market (he'd go nowhere else) or continue with a guy that was becoming less and less interested, with the performances to match.

[fakeyank]

Just Cesc having a pop at the board while praising wenger all that Article really does. Come to think of it i have never heard 1 player that has left us that has ever said a good word about this board.

Which player at any other club praises the board when they are leaving the club? :lol:

And no, Cesc is not having a pop at the board. He is praising AW for letting him leave despite the board actually wanting to do the right thing- get the right value for Cesc, which according to Barca president is 60 million Euros!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Which player at any other club praises the board when they are leaving the club? :lol:

And no, Cesc is not having a pop at the board. He is praising AW for letting him leave despite the board actually wanting to do the right thing- get the right value for Cesc, which according to Barca president is 60 million Euros!

Depends how they have been treated, it seems everytime ours players leave because the baord have treated them with disrespect. Cashley is eveident of that.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't know why Cesc would say that. But it makes no sense...his statement. If i want to persuade someone to do something, I make it more, rather than less attractive for them to take a course of action, unless I think I'm dealing with a fool.

I doubt anyone is arguing the Cesc situation was handled well, but there were two options - sell to the only team in the market (he'd go nowhere else) or continue with a guy that was becoming less and less interested, with the performances to match.

Do you not think that Wenger persuaded them to lower the price, knowing that mentally Cesc was not an Arsenal player anymore and it would have been to the detriment of the team to keep him?

It's been said a million times before of course but we were snookered and had no choice but to sell. I'd even say Wenger did the right thing in putting an end to it all regardless of the price.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Look at him, trying to save face knowing hes made a right fool of himself :lol:

You'd have thought he'd be used to it by now.

Apparently not. Oh well more fun times lie ahead on GW cos of it so i aint complaining

When did you start taking Fabregas' word as gospel?

[Syn]

And you didn't answer my closing question, who will we have left to sell, if it is true it's a necessity to make a profit?

If it's a necessity to make a profit in the transfer market, then I agree that we should go down the route of buying Hazards and Gotzes and continuing to sell them off for a profit in 3 or 4 seasons time. If it's not a necessity - and it's only necessary to try to make a profit for the club over all areas (which as you say is more likely achieved through being successful on the pitch), then I think a different route is required to achieve this success.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Do you not think that Wenger persuaded them to lower the price, knowing that mentally Cesc was not an Arsenal player anymore and it would have been to the detriment of the team to keep him?

It's been said a million times before of course but we were snookered and had no choice but to sell.

It is possible. But that would be reasonable given the unique situation we were in. If it were an open market it would be a different story. If you have an asset, it is only worth what the market is willing to pay and if the market is such that there is only one buyer then you have to play your hand very well to extract the maximum.

Our hand was not helped by Fabregas showing all the cards, because if there was even a pretence of there being an open market, Cesc would have gone for a lot more.

[Syn]

Do you not think that Wenger persuaded them to lower the price, knowing that mentally Cesc was not an Arsenal player anymore and it would have been to the detriment of the team to keep him?

It's been said a million times before of course but we were snookered and had no choice but to sell. I'd even say Wenger did the right thing in putting an end to it all regardless of the price.

Agreed. It's been discussed earlier in the thread by me or Maccy but as much as fans would've backed Wenger and the club for telling Cesc he has to stay, his performances in his last season showed he wasn't interested. In 09/10, he was truly awesome. But last season he was nowhere near that level. We were in a very tricky position because Cesc only wanted to go to Barcelona and Barca knew it. The Cesc saga was lingering on and on. I wouldn't be surprised if Wenger just said - fuck it, I can't deal with this shit any more, let him go. A very difficult situation for us.

[fakeyank]

Do you not think that Wenger persuaded them to lower the price, knowing that mentally Cesc was not an Arsenal player anymore and it would have been to the detriment of the team to keep him?

It's been said a million times before of course but we were snookered and had no choice but to sell. I'd even say Wenger did the right thing in putting an end to it all regardless of the price.

Dont think that is right. AW shouldve told Fabregas "They rate you at 30 million quid and you know you are more than that. If Andy Carroll can go for 35 million quid, you are at least worth 45-50 million. If Barca matches that offer, we will not stand in your way but if they do not, I expect you to man the fuck up and play. I have given them time till July 31 to close this deal so that I can concentrate on either moving forward with you or without you. I am doing what is best for Arsenal FC and I hope you understand."

Thats a man to man conversation he couldve had right after last season got over. But AW was in his own world with the waiting period, wanting period etc to make any firm decisions. Sad part is that we do not have anyone in the boardroom to stand up and bitch slap the fucker. Like I mentioned earlier, AW is way too powerful at AFC.. he is bringing the club down!

[IBK]

http://angryofislington.com/2012/01/19/arsenals-finances-the-plain-truth/

[Xhaka Can’t]

I was relieved it was over. Every window it was pretty much the same thing. Similar yet different crap with Vieira before that.

I'm near your position on what our signing strategy should be.

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://angryofislington.com/2012/01/19/arsenals-finances-the-plain-truth/

:gp:

[IBK]

:gp:

This guy is great because he keeps it simple and logical.

[Marc Overmars]

Dont think that is right. AW shouldve told Fabregas "They rate you at 30 million quid and you know you are more than that. If Andy Carroll can go for 35 million quid, you are at least worth 45-50 million. If Barca matches that offer, we will not stand in your way but if they do not, I expect you to man the fuck up and play. I have given them time till July 31 to close this deal so that I can concentrate on either moving forward with you or without you. I am doing what is best for Arsenal FC and I hope you understand."

Thats a man to man conversation he couldve had right after last season got over. But AW was in his own world with the waiting period, wanting period etc to make any firm decisions. Sad part is that we do not have anyone in the boardroom to stand up and bitch slap the fucker. Like I mentioned earlier, AW is way too powerful at AFC.. he is bringing the club down!

You're right he could have done that and maybe another manager would have. Would Cesc have accepted his fate though? I don't think so. Yes he was under contract but footballers are not robots, ultimatley if his heart was no longer in it, what use would it have been to keep him?

It's funny how we hanker on about the price we got for him, when all of us know full well that an extra 10m or so would've been neither here nor there last summer.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Where it says "the Frenchman has also revealed he is under pressure to deliver £15m-£20m in profit for the club through transfers each year" - he is not quoted as saying that.Not even in the bit that goes:


Wenger...said 'You should know that each season, it is imperative to show a profit of between fifteen and twenty million pounds...'???

:unsure:

[Xhaka Can’t]

You're right he could have done that and maybe another manager would have. Would Cesc have accepted his fate though? I don't think so. Yes he was under contract but footballers are not robots, ultimatley if his heart was no longer in it, what use would it have been to keep him?

It's funny how we hanker on about the price we got for him, when all of us know full well that an extra 10m or so would've been neither here nor there last summer.

The extra £10m could have gone towards an improved contract for Diaby.

[Unai Tea]

Not even in the bit that goes:

???

:unsure:

I think the issue is the difference between 'the club needs to show a profit of £15-20m' and 'the club needs to show a profit of £15-20m through transfers'.

The first is reasonable - return on investment and all that. The second is a bit ridiculous.

Although yes, the one can impact the other.

[GP]

http://angryofislington.com/2012/01/19/arsenals-finances-the-plain-truth/

Good read that. Pretty spot on.

[Fist of Lehmann]

I think the issue is the difference between 'the club needs to show a profit of £15-20m' and 'the club needs to show a profit of £15-20m through transfers'.

The first is reasonable - return on investment and all that. The second is a bit ridiculous.

Although yes, the one can impact the other.OIC :good:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

People forget we do actually buy players: Gervinho, Arteta and Oxlade-Chamberlain added together in transfer fees equals Fabregas; their wages added together equal more than Fabregas.
The wage bill gets bigger and bigger every year.

http://angryofislington.com/2012/01/19/arsenals-finances-the-plain-truth/

Deffo a good read tbh.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Dont think that is right. AW shouldve told Fabregas "They rate you at 30 million quid and you know you are more than that. If Andy Carroll can go for 35 million quid, you are at least worth 45-50 million. If Barca matches that offer, we will not stand in your way but if they do not, I expect you to man the fuck up and play. I have given them time till July 31 to close this deal so that I can concentrate on either moving forward with you or without you. I am doing what is best for Arsenal FC and I hope you understand."

Thats a man to man conversation he couldve had right after last season got over. But AW was in his own world with the waiting period, wanting period etc to make any firm decisions. Sad part is that we do not have anyone in the boardroom to stand up and bitch slap the fucker. Like I mentioned earlier, AW is way too powerful at AFC.. he is bringing the club down!

How do you know he never told him that before he gave into the player.

[Cripps_orig]

How do you know he never told him that before he gave into the player.Cos we sold him for less than 45-50 million

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Cos we sold him for less than 45-50 million

read what i said again

[fakeyank]

How do you know he never told him that before he gave into the player.

Why did he give into the player? If he was firm in what he said, he shouldve stood his ground... the board wouldve backed Arsene. Problem with AW is that he is a father figure who caves into his childs wishes.. be a man FFS and tell the player to STFU or be on the bench. Arsenal is bigger than your whinging childhood club and your sad little spanish face!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Why did he give into the player? If he was firm in what he said, he shouldve stood his ground... the board wouldve backed Arsene. Problem with AW is that he is a father figure who caves into his childs wishes.. be a man FFS and tell the player to STFU or be on the bench. Arsenal is bigger than your whinging childhood club and your sad little spanish face!

The player was unhappy and wanted to go, no point keeping an uhappy player no matter what, all that lets put him the the reserves or bench him, never happens. I doubt AW wanted him to leave and maybe was too soft but had we kept him this would have gone on and on and on nad its not healthy for the squad.

If the board had backbone and thought their way was right, they have said he can't go regardless of what wenger said. And given him an ultimatim.

[Kano]

I should have though that the questions on which his quotes are based are rather far apart tbh.

And who's to say, without the benefit of the full interview, whether he was asked about all kinds of players, not just Hazard.

I hate these fucking articles, because you know half of it's shit, twisted and sensationalist.

Having read the original article, there is no expansion at all on the quotes we have seen.

[fakeyank]

The player was unhappy and wanted to go, no point keeping an uhappy player no matter what, all that lets put him the the reserves or bench him, never happens. I doubt AW wanted him to leave and maybe was too soft but had we kept him this would have gone on and on and on nad its not healthy for the squad.

If the board had backbone and thought their way was right, they have said he can't go regardless of what wenger said. And given him an ultimatim.

Well the board was ready to hold on, they gave in because AW wanted them to. What does this tell you? AW is a very powerful man at the club. All this posts which make him seem like a stupid cow caving into the board holding his balls regarding money is BS!

[gunsofashburtongrove]

Wenger's statements are generally very intelligently placed as messages for the board,authorities etc. It is generally not meant for fan consumption. This could very well be a message for the board asking more money to be spent. The board on its part is not running away with profits, at least not a large chunk. If you look at the financial statements released last fiscal, the net debts have come down to 90 odd mil, and cash reserves have gone up to 130 odd mil, which at the worst is conservative, with the board insisting on having reserves to counter long term debts. However the issue seems to be that we are not able to keep hold of players who are being developed into world class (reluctance to pay), nor are we able to replace them (reluctance/inability to pay high transfer fee), a fact is growing uncomfortable with. Looks like the board requires the money form sales and saved wages by selling former first teamers who are on loan or not being used much, before they go for the more ambitious buys which Wenger wants. Unfortunately we have a long list of such players.

[Power n Glory]

Embarrassing stuff. No point in dismissing the Cesc quote. Do you really think Wenger would allow Cesc to be sold without his say so?

Good article posted up by Ice Berg Slim. The clue is in our wage bill. It shows that we mismanage funds and gamble on kids way too much. If the Board are happy to release funds for Wenger's pet project then I'm sure they wouldn't object to a change in strategy. What we're doing is costly and soon it will catch up to us. Wenger needs to return to his old philosophy and find undervalued players. His vision of a youth team isn't working and is costing us on the pitch and financially.

[Coney]

Not even in the bit that goes:

???

:unsure:

No - because it does not specify transfers.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Embarrassing stuff. No point in dismissing the Cesc quote. Do you really think Wenger would allow Cesc to be sold without his say so?

Good article posted up by Ice Berg Slim. The clue is in our wage bill. It shows that we mismanage funds and gamble on kids way too much. If the Board are happy to release funds for Wenger's pet project then I'm sure they wouldn't object to a change in strategy. What we're doing is costly and soon it will catch up to us. Wenger needs to return to his old philosophy and find undervalued players. His vision of a youth team isn't working and is costing us on the pitch and financially.

I agree with the point about wanting Wenger to go back to his unearthing of undervalued/dissatisfied talent ala Henry and Viera (almost off the radar when AW picked them up) but these days even those come at a cost, just came off the transfer thread and adding how Sturridge would be a good buy, and I know he is a little bit more spotlight than Henry or Viera were but if rumours are to be believed he kind of fits the description!!!

However he would cost a fair whack and wages on top would scare us off.....Wenger/the board do not have that sense of risk - hell the original post says were the priorities still ride!!!

[Flavs]

Dunno. That's why I said "pure specualtion".

I was reading through an old set of accounts, post 2006 season, I think....and just looking at how they were presented. It is a hell of a lot more complicated that people think....and as I've always said, profit doesn't equal cash in the bank.

I'm sure there will be a lot of interest in this years accounts, and where it'll leave us going forward...but, again, we'll never know exactly what's going on, or indeed, financial plans going forward.

*sigh*

Comments like Arsene's one above are there for a reason. He's a clever bloke...but sometimes, leaving something dangling like that for fans to rip to pieces does more harm than good....

Not if he is deliberately removing heat from himself and pushing it more onto the board. I think the fans could do with a Q&A with PHW where we get to ask him questions he has to answer and lets face it he tends to speak his mind.

Its a crap interview written up on a crap way and then spun any and each way possible.

[Kano]

i don't understand the quibbling over cesc's comments regarding the transfer fee, particularly on this forum.

we made a huge profit on the player and whether we made an extra 5/10/15 million don't most people on here believe it would only be swallowed up by the club?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Well the board was ready to hold on, they gave in because AW wanted them to. What does this tell you? AW is a very powerful man at the club. All this posts which make him seem like a stupid cow caving into the board holding his balls regarding money is BS!

Oh deah, so our board who employ the manager have less power then him, ok then, all it says to me is the board were happy to let cesc go after all they made their profit, ok they never got as much s they have liked but still knew that they would only be giving AW a small amountof that money for transfers.

How is it that arry can say to leavy that maybe they should let luka go, But Leavy was able to put his foot down and our board were not. Bunch of pussy's thats why. If they can't take on the manager as you say then they really need need GTFO our club now.

I agree Wenger should have had more backbone with cesc no denying that, but the board should have been more firm with him end off.

Wenger would have known letting fab go for a small price,would have meant him not having a big amout to spend on new transfers last summer, he took that gamble and it has not worked. However don't think PHW and his mates were too upset over it as most the money went in their pockets.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I agree with the point about wanting Wenger to go back to his unearthing of undervalued/dissatisfied talent ala Henry and Viera (almost off the radar when AW picked them up) but these days even those come at a cost, just came off the transfer thread and adding how Sturridge would be a good buy, and I know he is a little bit more spotlight than Henry or Viera were but if rumours are to be believed he kind of fits the description!!!

However he would cost a fair whack and wages on top would scare us off.....Wenger/the board do not have that sense of risk - hell the original post says were the priorities still ride!!!

Don't think he is on big wages at chavs though. Im sure once we sell Arshavin/NB/Vela/Denilson, we should have money for wages and transfers.

[Power n Glory]

I agree with the point about wanting Wenger to go back to his unearthing of undervalued/dissatisfied talent ala Henry and Viera (almost off the radar when AW picked them up) but these days even those come at a cost, just came off the transfer thread and adding how Sturridge would be a good buy, and I know he is a little bit more spotlight than Henry or Viera were but if rumours are to be believed he kind of fits the description!!!

However he would cost a fair whack and wages on top would scare us off.....Wenger/the board do not have that sense of risk - hell the original post says were the priorities still ride!!!


What they are doing now seems really risky. I just can’t understand how someone can look at the squad and then look at the wage bill then think we’re getting value for money. This is why I hold Wenger responsible because he must be telling someone up there that these players are worth such wages. He has the technical knowledge and he’s telling everyone that these guys will be world beaters. People must believe him and agree to stump up the cash, but it’s bloody risky to bank on a kid with no experience. It’s all based on talent and potential.

With his old method, when scouting a player, at least he’d have more info to work with. The stats could hold up at least. But with these kids, we’re going on a few games at reserve or youth team level. It’s a bigger risk imo. We have the 4th highest wage bill in the league. Once they start seeing the wage bill in comparison to our league position, the pen pushers will probably start asking the right sorts of questions.

[Kano]

We have the 4th highest wage bill in the league. Once they start seeing the wage bill in comparison to our league position, the pen pushers will probably start asking the right sorts of questions.

studies have shown that wage bills usually correlate to league position, which at current spend is pretty spot on.

[Power n Glory]

studies have shown that wage bills usually correlate to league position, which at current spend is pretty spot on.

We're outside of 4th at the mo.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We're outside of 4th at the mo.

But we finsished 4th last season though.

[Kano]

We're outside of 4th at the mo.

if we're not being pendantic about it, we're hardly a million miles away either.

[Power n Glory]

This is why I say eventually and if the gap gets wider.

[Kano]

only time will tell us that but presently the wage spend is pretty accurate to league position, something the board are probably well aware of.

[LDG]

only time will tell us that but presently the wage spend is pretty accurate to league position, something the board are probably well aware of.

We just need to cull a load of deadwood, like Flavs has pointed out in the transfers thread.

If we can do that during in the summer, we can actually make 15-20million.

[Kano]

We just need to cull a load of deadwood, like Flavs has pointed out in the transfers thread.

If we can do that during in the summer, we can actually make 15-20million.

two guesses where that dosh will go...

[LDG]

two guesses where that dosh will go...

The transfer kitty, and cutting ticket prices :good:

[Kano]

take my advice, don't enter any q&a competitions anytime soon.

[LDG]

take my advice, don't enter any q&a competitions anytime soon.

Yeah, missed out on a few cereal packet holidays, as I observed the waiting period before submitting my answers :(

[Fist of Lehmann]

We're outside of 4th at the mo.And we've had 5th highest wage bill since 09-10.

[Power n Glory]

only time will tell us that but presently the wage spend is pretty accurate to league position, something the board are probably well aware of.


And that is my point, if the Board are only looking at the figures and correlating our wage bill with our league position, then of course, they won’t spot the weaknesses in our squad and the youth policy. They’re only looking at balance sheets and league position instead of what we’re putting out on the pitch.

Not sure what your position is on this, but I’ve come across people on here that have said the Board should have sacked Wenger years ago, but also correlate our league position with the wages and say it’s about right. From the Boards, perspective, if they have their heads buried in spreadsheets and figures, how can they justify sacking Wenger? Especially if he’s constantly delivered 4th place?

Developing young players is supposed to be a cheap option but this looks like a mismanagement of funds by the manager and it’s getting out of hand. If you look beyond the numbers, you can see that we’re not getting value for money here. We’ve overvalued a lot of players with those wages and we need to balance that out. But again, if we have a Board that have no idea about the technical side of football and can only correlate figures and approach the game with a statistical outlook, we’ll never fix the problem unless we continue to drop down the league table while the wages go up and up. That’s probably when a pen pusher upstairs will probably raise the question to Arsene.

[Kano]

And that is my point, if the Board are only looking at the figures and correlating our wage bill with our league position, then of course, they won’t spot the weaknesses in our squad and the youth policy. They’re only looking at balance sheets and league position instead of what we’re putting out on the pitch.

Not sure what your position is on this, but I’ve come across people on here that have said the Board should have sacked Wenger years ago, but also correlate our league position with the wages and say it’s about right. From the Boards, perspective, if they have their heads buried in spreadsheets and figures, how can they justify sacking Wenger? Especially if he’s constantly delivered 4th place?

Developing young players is supposed to be a cheap option but this looks like a mismanagement of funds by the manager and it’s getting out of hand. If you look beyond the numbers, you can see that we’re not getting value for money here. We’ve overvalued a lot of players with those wages and we need to balance that out. But again, if we have a Board that have no idea about the technical side of football and can only correlate figures and approach the game with a statistical outlook, we’ll never fix the problem unless we continue to drop down the league table while the wages go up and up. That’s probably when a pen pusher upstairs will probably raise the question to Arsene.

well the remit of any board or ceo is to sustain and increase the growth of the business, although it seems in this instance to be at the detriment of the actual product driving the finances.

they will be well aware that increased performance equals more money, so whether or not they understand the technical aspects of the game, they will certainly understand that principle. although there is no need to justify sacking wenger if they are happy with the status quo and squeezing into the top four every season.

[Power n Glory]

I think it’s pretty unfair to say they are happy to squeeze into the top four and that they lack ambition. As seen from the Asia Tour, they are trying to find ways to increase revenue. The problem is, it will all go into wages if we continue with this silly project. It is a drain on our resources and someone up the top needs to look into this. The model doesn’t sound sustainable at all. Paying young players so much as such an early age results in the sort of fiasco we’re seeing with Theo. He’s not worth 90k but he’s due a wage increase and you can’t offer him a small increase on his current deal and expect him to accept it. Wages will go up and up.

Again, I think this is a mismanagement of funds and the only thing the Board can do is look to increase the revenue and close the gap. If they’re constantly listening to Wenger, then they probably think that we’re close – or punching above our weight, and that we need more revenue to compete with the very best and obviously, that will take several years to accomplish, hence....a top four position is acceptable.

But when you look down on the pitch and how silly it gets down there because of his decisions and tactics, it’s clear that money isn’t the only issue. We're spending in the wrong places.

[Joker]

That's the problem, the board only see us as a business, and football as a "product". I'm not expecting them to feel the same way about the club as fans do, but they are so completely out of touch that they don't understand why the fans are so annoyed. Whatever you say about City's owners, they at least realise that football is much more than simply about profit margins, turnover, return on investment etc. Because of that, they've made it clear that they are ambitious in a football sense and want success, while our board are obsessed with the "sustainable" model and behaving as if it makes us morally superior to City (although it doesn't, because the fans are the ones having to pay to maintain this sustainable model) Fans don't give a shit about the morally superior trophy. They realise that the club should operate within financial constraints of course, but it appears that the board are behaving like any reasonably successful business with a monopoly status (given that the fans aren't going to go off to support Tottenham) does, in other words not taking any risks and happy to maintain the status quo. But we are not simply a private sector enterprise, so this approach, although it might make sense for a pure business, doesn't make sense for a football club.

[LDG]

I see vinga has clarified his comments...Sorry can't seem to post the link....Fucking phone :angry:

[GP]

I see vinga has clarified his comments...Sorry can't seem to post the link....Fucking phone :angry:

iphone :pal:

[LDG]

iphone :pal: There's no app for your face :pal:

[GP]

There's no app for your face :pal:

http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=24317182

[LDG]

:haha:

That needs super-imposing on redknapp :lol:

[Flavs]

http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=24317182

:lol:

[dazthegooner]

Can't see it at work :(

[Fist of Lehmann]

Were you trying to link this (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/arsene-wenger-upbeat-ahead-of-crucial-period-for-arsenal-6700123.html) from the Indy?


Wenger said: "Do you think the target of the club is to lose money? It cannot last a long time, the target is to make profit.

"It looks to me normal for any company in the world, so I don't know why it is surprising.

"We want to pay the debt we owe from the stadium we built, that's around £15 million. So it's normal that at the start, we have to make at least £15 million or we lose money."

Wenger denied the need to service the debt on the move to Emirates Stadium tied his hands in the transfer market.

"I accept one basic principle for every company that you can spend the money you make," he said.

"It is just natural common sense and mathematical logic that what goes out has to equal what comes in. if that does not work then the company loses money."

Also:



Wenger, meanwhile, insisted there would be no chance of Andrey Arshavin leaving for Russia, where the window remains open until the end of the month and reports have emerged of interest from Anzhi Makhachkala and former club Zenit St Petersburg.

The Arsenal manager said: "I expect him to be here after February 24 and that is clear."

[Flavs]

Wenger, meanwhile, insisted there would be no chance of Andrey Arshavin leaving for Russia, where the window remains open until the end of the month and reports have emerged of interest from Anzhi Makhachkala and former club Zenit St Petersburg.

The Arsenal manager said: "I expect him to be here after February 24 and that is clear."


Why?? Sell the useless little fucker

[LDG]

Were you trying to link this (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/arsene-wenger-upbeat-ahead-of-crucial-period-for-arsenal-6700123.html) from the Indy?Also::good:

[Power n Glory]

Why?? Sell the useless little fucker

Makes no sense to sell him now.

[dazthegooner]

Makes no sense to sell him now.

Why keep him he does fuck all?

[Power n Glory]

We often get injuries and his assist ratio is pretty decent. The season isn't over and we'd loaned out Ryo. We can spend the money and it's not as if we will get a huge offer in now. Might as well wait until the summer.

[Power n Glory]

Why keep him he does fuck all?

He gets assists as shown today and it's valuable. No point in selling just so the money can sit in the bank.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

this is an absolutely huge summer for us, i know we say it every bleedin year but this year it really is.

we could have rvp leave, park leave, chamakh leave. the latter 2 going because of limited first team football.

that leaves us with no striker.

walcott, almunia, fabianski, squillaci, rosicky, arshavin.. most of them could all go. most are shite but it means we'll have no midfield.

on top of that yossi's loan finishes and henry's gone already.

squad depletion and asset stripping at its best.

it'll take years to recover from this.

truly fucked.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

this is an absolutely huge summer for us, i know we say it every bleedin year but this year it really is.

we could have rvp leave, park leave, chamakh leave. the latter 2 going because of limited first team football.

that leaves us with no striker.

walcott, almunia, fabianski, squillaci, rosicky, arshavin.. most of them could all go. most are shite but it means we'll have no midfield.

on top of that yossi's loan finishes and henry's gone already.

squad depletion and asset stripping at its best.

it'll take years to recover from this.

truly fucked.

Yep we need about 6-7 quality players just to compete with the top 3 and the European Elite. I think we will be seing quite a few exits this summer (incuding wenger) and Lots of incomings tbh.

The club has no excues not to sign quality this summer, there is no cesc or Nasri etc drama. They should have their targets now not when the Euros are on.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Yep we need about 6-7 quality players just to compete with the top 3 and the European Elite. I think we will be seing quite a few exits this summer (incuding wenger) and Lots of incomings tbh.

The club has no excues not to sign quality this summer, there is no cesc or Nasri etc drama. They should have their targets now not when the Euros are on.

lets hope so.

[alexander]

this is an absolutely huge summer for us, i know we say it every bleedin year but this year it really is.

we could have rvp leave, park leave, chamakh leave. the latter 2 going because of limited first team football.

that leaves us with no striker.

walcott, almunia, fabianski, squillaci, rosicky, arshavin.. most of them could all go. most are shite but it means we'll have no midfield.

on top of that yossi's loan finishes and henry's gone already.

squad depletion and asset stripping at its best.

it'll take years to recover from this.

truly fucked.

We could get Bendy back