What's the point getting 4th place?

[Joker]

Whenever we've faced a decent side in the Champions League recently, we've gone out. Yes, we can make it out of the group phase comfortably, because the quality of opposition is so mediocre, but you know we'll struggle to get beyond the Quarter Finals these days. Yet Wenger acts as if qualification for this tournament is the holy grail. But what's the point if you're not even competing with the best teams in this tournament, and simply making up the numbers? Sure, smaller teams may just be happy to participate in the UCL, but we're meant to be a big club, and our move to the Emirates was supposed to facilitate our ascent to the top table of European football and become part of the elite. Instead, we've regressed so far that we are simply satisfied to qualify for the tournament, and pick up the money which is all the board and Wenger care about.

I don't give a shit about 4th place anymore, give me 5th/6th and an FA Cup win any day. The Arsenal Economists may think I'm talking bollocks, but I'm a fan at the end of the day, not an accountant worried about the financial costs and benefits of winning the FA Cup compared to qualifying for the UCL.

[Cripps_orig]

Depends on whose point of view it is

Fans? No point at all

The team? Not sure. Maybe they dont want to be humiliated in the biggest competition of all again

Wenger and the board? Every reason to get 4th. Yachts dont pay for themselves

[Xhaka Can’t]

None whatsoever.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Probably none but then unless Wenger will be sacked because of it (he did say it was compulsory) not much will change anyway. Plus, I can't will us to do worse in the league even if it does serve a supposed greater good.

[hymppi]

[QUOTE= unless Wenger will be sacked because of it (he did say it was compulsory) [/QUOTE]
oh yeah, now what AW?
europe league is not that bad? still great teams in there? it will attract players?
fuck off, AW.

[Marc Overmars]

No point, we can't compete on this stage anymore, our style of football is bog standard Premier League and I'd also pose serious questions about the mentality the manager imposes on this team. You have to wonder if they even realised the magnitude of the game they were playing in. What a horrible, half-arsed effort it was.

Getting 4th this year is only going to delude Wenger into thinking this team is capable of something better, when it painfully isn't.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Whenever we've faced a decent side in the Champions League recently, we've gone out. Yes, we can make it out of the group phase comfortably, because the quality of opposition is so mediocre, but you know we'll struggle to get beyond the Quarter Finals these days. Yet Wenger acts as if qualification for this tournament is the holy grail. But what's the point if you're not even competing with the best teams in this tournament, and simply making up the numbers? Sure, smaller teams may just be happy to participate in the UCL, but we're meant to be a big club, and our move to the Emirates was supposed to facilitate our ascent to the top table of European football and become part of the elite. Instead, we've regressed so far that we are simply satisfied to qualify for the tournament, and pick up the money which is all the board and Wenger care about.

I don't give a shit about 4th place anymore, give me 5th/6th and an FA Cup win any day. The Arsenal Economists may think I'm talking bollocks, but I'm a fan at the end of the day, not an accountant worried about the financial costs and benefits of winning the FA Cup compared to qualifying for the UCL.

There is no gurantee us not being in the cl means we will win a cup or anything will change, with this club they seems to make up the rules as they go along.

had we had a bit of qulity in this team we'd have gone further tbh. i agree no point in being in the cl if were not going to invest for it.

[hymppi]

the thing is i don't think we'll end up with the 4th spot.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

oh yeah, now what AW?
europe league is not that bad? still great teams in there? it will attract players?
fuck off, AW.


Yep won't need to spend big either tbh

[Letters]

the thing is i don't think we'll end up with the 4th spot.

It is quite amazing we're there now, shows how crap Chelsea and Liverpool are.
When RvP goes (and he'd be stupid not to, tbh, unless we show some actual ambition in the summer and convince him we can turn things around and start heading in the right direction again) we'll be in mid-table. He's the only thing keeping us in the hunt for 4th right now.

Maybe we need to finish lower for a season. Maybe it's jolt the powers that be into realising we can't keep replacing quality players with mediocre ones and keep competing.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

the thing is i don't think we'll end up with the 4th spot.

Its a hard one because none of the teams chasing it seem to want it as were all as bad as each other. Like Letters, it would not be bad if we were in the Europa league next season tbh, at least we play some decent footie i guess.

[leaf]

maybe we are more suited to the europa league lets hope we qualify for it

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Isn't it possible we'll treat the Europa League with disdain with a view to try and 'focus' on getting fourth place?

[Letters]

Isn't it possible we'll treat the Europa League with disdain with a view to try and 'focus' on getting fourth place?

It's what Spurs have done so yeah, probably.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It is quite amazing we're there now, shows how crap Chelsea and Liverpool are.
When RvP goes (and he'd be stupid not to, tbh, unless we show some actual ambition in the summer and convince him we can turn things around and start heading in the right direction again) we'll be in mid-table. He's the only thing keeping us in the hunt for 4th right now.

Maybe we need to finish lower for a season. Maybe it's jolt the powers that be into realising we can't keep replacing quality players with mediocre ones and keep competing.

We keep hoping for these 'blessings in disguise' but nothing - absolutely nothing prompts a reaction from either the Manager or the Board.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

maybe we are more suited to the europa league lets hope we qualify for it

No were not suited to it

[Dennis Bendtner]

The glamour ties used to be enjoyable! Hell, just last season. The quality of midfield being ripped to shreds has cost us that pleasure of competing though. So yeah...from a fan's perspective there wouldn't be much to shout about if the trend continued.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Isn't it possible we'll treat the Europa League with disdain with a view to try and 'focus' on getting fourth place?

Most probs, put should we not try to get back in the cl if we go out of it or just settle for the europa for a few seasons. I think we play the cc team in the early rounds anyway.

[LDG]

No were not suited to it, however it might be suited to us, if tha makes sense.

Nope.

[Cripps_orig]

No were not suited to it, however it might be suited to us, if tha makes sense.Im better than most in trying to interpret what youre saying but for this one, id have to go with what a great man once said

What?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Nope.

Sorry, what i meant is, i still think we belong in the cl and are more suited to it as Arsenal FC. However with the sqaud we have it seems Playing in the Europa league would suit us better.

[Arsenal Royal]

No were not suited to it, however it might be suited to us, if tha makes sense.

No it doesn't. And you don't even have to be English to notice it :tongue:.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I think this is what Charlie is trying to say: We're shit.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think this is what Charlie is trying to say: We're shit.

I know we are.

[Master Splinter]

I think this is what Charlie is trying to say: We're shit.

Impressive Charlieglyphics deciphering skills.

[Arsenal Royal]

I think this is what Charlie is trying to say: We're shit.

What took him so long to notice it?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

What took him so long to notice it?

Charlie or Wenger?

[Marc Overmars]

Charlie debating things he agrees with anyway for the sake of it. :bow:

[LDG]

What took him so long to notice it?

It probably wasn't bolded.

[Master Splinter]

Charlie debating things he agrees with anyway for the sake of it. :bow:

The civilised Ach :bow:.

[Arsenal Royal]

Charlie or Wenger?

Charlie.

[Cripps_orig]

It probably wasn't bolded.:haha:

[leaf]

anyone listening to talkshite

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Charlie.

Not sure. I just know he's a GW cult figure because of things like this. :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Not sure. I just know he's a GW cult figure because of things like this. :bow:

The mental month :bow:

[Xhaka Can’t]

anyone listening to talkshite

I never listen to talkshite, but on this occasion, I won't.

[Arsenal Royal]

Well, if we succeed in finishing 4th we could still attract (top-) players to sign for Arsenal. Of course, there would still be a manager required that is willing to sign quality and not mediocre players.

[LDG]

The mental month :bow:

What moth? And why is it metal?

[Coney]

As mentioned in an earlier thread on this, getting 4th means CL revenue which a club could spend on a couple of players to make the difference, but since we would not spend the extra money, then 4th is not something I am so bothered about. Perhaps if we fail to make 4th, the board might realise that they have to speculate to accumulate. If missing on 4th makes them finally fork out for the players we need, then I'd rather we missed out this time round.

[leaf]

I never listen to talkshite, but on this occasion, I won't.
dont blame yer not a regular although some one came up with a good point if will wenger be gone in the next 4 weeks

[Xhaka Can’t]

As mentioned in an earlier thread on this, getting 4th means CL revenue which a club could spend on a couple of players to make the difference, but since we would not spend the extra money, then 4th is not something I am so bothered about. Perhaps if we fail to make 4th, the board might realise that they have to speculate to accumulate. If missing on 4th makes them finally fork out for the players we need, then I'd rather we missed out this time round.

http://files.chesscomfiles.com/images_users/tiny_mce/Arctor/clutching_at_straws.jpg

[Arsenal Royal]

As mentioned in an earlier thread on this, getting 4th means CL revenue which a club could spend on a couple of players to make the difference, but since we would not spend the extra money, then 4th is not something I am so bothered about. Perhaps if we fail to make 4th, the board might realise that they have to speculate to accumulate. If missing on 4th makes them finally fork out for the players we need, then I'd rather we missed out this time round.

Why should top players sign for a team that does not compete in the Champions League?

[Coney]

Why should top players sign for a team that does not compete in the Champions League?

Because there are still plenty of players left over. There are more good players than CL teams. We just keep failing to buy them.

[LDG]

http://files.chesscomfiles.com/images_users/tiny_mce/Arctor/clutching_at_straws.jpg

Ooooh!! Kerplunk!!! :woohoo:

[Coney]

http://files.chesscomfiles.com/images_users/tiny_mce/Arctor/clutching_at_straws.jpg

:lol: I did say 'if'.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Why should top players sign for a team that does not compete in the Champions League?

The CL is the only thing we have to attract top players, we won't pay big wages or promise trophies. There are still some players who would love to play for Arsenal FC.

[Arsenal Royal]

Because there are still plenty of players left over. There are more good players than CL teams. We just keep failing to buy them.

Why do you think we'll succeed in buying "them" in summer? Because my current impression is that not even top-players are leaving the club (cesc, nasri...) but also mediocre like clichy etc. We cannot even manage to keep a legendary player like Henry at our club an he plays in a different league on a different continent!

[Coney]

Why do you think we'll succeed in buying "them" in summer? Because my current impression is that not even top-players are leaving the club (cesc, nasri...) but also mediocre like clichy etc. We cannot even manage to keep a legendary player like Henry at our club an he plays in a different league on a different continent!

Read the sequence again. I said 'if' the board see the light and go for buying players, there are plenty about. If the board see the light, then what you said is irrelevant.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Your face is irrelevant.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I think it's a vicious cycle we've got in to. We're happy to attain top four because of the safety blanket it provides, well, provided but we don't spend the extra money it provides - yet how likely is it for us to get better players without that money? The whole thing sucks.

[fakeyank]

The CL is the only thing we have to attract top players, we can't pay big wages or promise trophies. There are still some players who would love to play for Arsenal FC.

Yup, Messi and Ronaldo cant wait to sign for us.. heard they are ready to take a pay cut for us too!

[Cripps_orig]

Dont want Messi

[LDG]

I think it's a vicious cycle we've got in to. We're happy to attain top four because of the safety blanket it provides, well, provided but we don't spend the extra money it provides - yet how likely is it for us to get better players without that money? The whole thing sucks.

True.

Add to that, that players we could attract come here knowing we'll happily settle for fourth, and are not concerned about TRYING to win leagues and cups, shows lack of ambition.

What other club on earth has come out and said, "We'll settle for less than we could possibly get".

I just can't see a way out of it now, aside from having a complete overhaul, and a few years in the wilderness.

[Xhaka Can’t]

A few years in the wilderness beckons. If we finish 4th we'll just get more of the same, so thanks but no thanks.

Last night was just another home truth that clearly showed, while we may qualify for the ECL, we don't belong in it.

[Kano]

might as well turn out the lights and go home really.

we've pretty much always been poor in the cl, so last night was no surprise.

[Letters]

A few years in the wilderness beckons. If we finish 4th we'll just get more of the same, so thanks but no thanks.

Last night was just another home truth that clearly showed, while we may qualify for the ECL, we don't belong in it.

This is why I said that finishing outside the top 4 may jolt us into action. Humiliations like last night or at OT can be dismissed as one off aberrations in a season where we won our CL group and we're still competing for a top 4 place (I think that says more about Chelsea and Liverpool than us, but astonishingly we are still 4th right now).

Finishing lower though crosses a line though which may jolt the board/Wenger into action.


Or it may not :(

[selassie]

I think it's a vicious cycle we've got in to. We're happy to attain top four because of the safety blanket it provides, well, provided but we don't spend the extra money it provides - yet how likely is it for us to get better players without that money? The whole thing sucks.

Yeah I agree, I've no idea what our strategy would be if we fall out of the top 4 this year.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

This is why I said that finishing outside the top 4 may jolt us into action. Humiliations like last night or at OT can be dismissed as one off aberrations in a season where we won our CL group and we're still competing for a top 4 place (I think that says more about Chelsea and Liverpool than us, but astonishingly we are still 4th right now).

Finishing lower though crosses a line though which may jolt the board/Wenger into action.


Or it may not :(

Wenger will go if we don't finish top 4, can't see him staying to manage a team in the europa league.

[GP]

This is why I said that finishing outside the top 4 may jolt us into action. Humiliations like last night or at OT can be dismissed as one off aberrations in a season where we won our CL group and we're still competing for a top 4 place (I think that says more about Chelsea and Liverpool than us, but astonishingly we are still 4th right now).

Finishing lower though crosses a line though which may jolt the board/Wenger into action.


Or it may not :(

Personally, I just think it'll make the board even more tight fisted.

http://a.images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/14693680.jpg

[Letters]

:lol:

I'll give 'em a fiver for Walcott.

Final offer :sulk:

[Grebbo]

The CL is the only thing we have to attract top players, we can't pay big wages or promise trophies. There are still some players who would love to play for Arsenal FC.

What frigging planet are you on??!! We never even attempt to sign top players - that is not our business model!!

And we pay fucking huge wages - look at our wage bill - we just pay them to the wrong players.

Jeez.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

What frigging planet are you on??!! We never even attempt to sign top players - that is not our business model!!

And we pay fucking huge wages - look at our wage bill - we just pay them to the wrong players.Jeez.

So we pay 250K a week like city/utd and barca do then ?

[LDG]

So we pay 250K a week like city/utd and barca do then ?

Yes we do. Difference being, we pay 62.5k a week to four shit-kicking bottlers like Bendy and Denilson etc, whereas city pay one David Silva.

If we wanted to do it properly, we could have two or three highly paid players....so long as we stop bungling the wage bill up with crap players earning more than they're worth.

That said, we're gambling on 1 in 4 of those players being sold on for a massive profit...in any case, we're always planning for the future, never the here and now.

[Coney]

:lol:

I'll give 'em a fiver for Walcott.

Final offer :sulk:

If you offer them a fiver, they'll settle for 3 quid.

Arsenal player negotiations :rose:

[Marc Overmars]

Yes we do. Difference being, we pay 62.5k a week to four shit-kicking bottlers like Bendy and Denilson etc, whereas city pay one David Silva.

If we wanted to do it properly, we could have two or three highly paid players....so long as we stop bungling the wage bill up with crap players earning more than they're worth.

That said, we're gambling on 1 in 4 of those players being sold on for a massive profit...in any case, we're always planning for the future, never the here and now.

A future that never happens. 5 years ago I'm not sure we were planning for this.

[Grebbo]

So we pay 250K a week like city/utd and barca do then ?

Yes

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yes we do. Difference being, we pay 62.5k a week to four shit-kicking bottlers like Bendy and Denilson etc, whereas city pay one David Silva.

If we wanted to do it properly, we could have two or three highly paid players....so long as we stop bungling the wage bill up with crap players earning more than they're worth.

That said, we're gambling on 1 in 4 of those players being sold on for a massive profit...in any case, we're always planning for the future, never the here and now.

What my main point was, to attract a certain we always had the CL as a way of getting them, cant see them wanting to come with us in the Europa league.

I agree we do pay high wages, but not as big as the clubs i mentiond. City have abour 3/4 players on 150K or more we can't do that.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yes

so which one of our players is on that a week then.

[Coney]

This is why I said that finishing outside the top 4 may jolt us into action. Humiliations like last night or at OT can be dismissed as one off aberrations in a season where we won our CL group and we're still competing for a top 4 place (I think that says more about Chelsea and Liverpool than us, but astonishingly we are still 4th right now).

Finishing lower though crosses a line though which may jolt the board/Wenger into action.


Or it may not :(

I guess we'll find out in the summer. We failed to buy a striker that can score goals in the January window so I'm just waiting for Wenger to go, get kicked upstairs and get a decent tactical manager who will insist on proper players, or for the miracle road to Damascus light where Wenger/Board spot the deliberate mistake, sack the dross and buy effective players.

I'm not surprised we are probably not getting past AC Milan, though it would have been less painful if it had been a 2-0 rather than a 4-0. Their first goal was decent and I don't really blame us for that. But Rosicky, Walcott have shown they are just not going to do the business and persisting with them is just frustrating. We needed to get at them, so why the fuck was Ox not playing at the start. etc. Blah blah - same shite blah blah. etc.

[Grebbo]

so which one of our players is on that a week then.

We paid Henry £200k in his final season with us.

Wages are not the problem. We have one of the highest wage bill's in the league.

Paying a load of shite above average wages is the problem as we cannot then pay the exceptional players top dollar (See LDG's post).

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We paid Henry £200k in his final season with us.Wages are not the problem. We have one of the highest wage bill's in the league.

Paying a load of shite above average wages is the problem as we cannot then pay the exceptional players top dollar (See LDG's post).

No we never did he got 120K max our board would never go that high. Even ray palour said wages play a big part in transfers.

[Grebbo]

No we never did he got 120K max our board would never go that high. Even ray palour said wages play a big part in transfers.

Read the accounts - it's all there. We paid PAYE on his £200k per week so we sure as hell paid it.

It is clear that you have been brainwashed by Wenger's bullshit.

There is no saving you.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Read the accounts - it's all there. We paid PAYE on his £200k per week so we sure as hell paid it.

It is clear that you have been brainwashed by Wenger's bullshit.There is no saving you.

Oh fuck off with that nonsesne when have we ever paid anyone 200K so why would we give henry that.

[Grebbo]

Oh fuck off with that nonsesne when have we ever paid anyone 200K so why would we give henry that.

:haha:

Go read the accounts instead of arguing.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:haha:

Go read the accounts instead of arguing.

Post a link to them if you can find them and let me read em.

[Marc Overmars]

Henry got a very, very big loyalty bonus after the CL final.

Either way, the wage structure at this club is very disproportionate to the actual proven performances we get from certain players and that's a huge problem.

[selassie]

We paid Henry £200k in his final season with us.

Wages are not the problem. We have one of the highest wage bill's in the league.

Paying a load of shite above average wages is the problem as we cannot then pay the exceptional players top dollar (See LDG's post).

Yep, that's what pisses me off the most about our "High & Mighty Purist" attitude, it's all very well Arsene & the board crowing about not spending or big wages killing the game but we pay reserve/squad players 50K a week, we don't have one or two of them we have nearly half a team of them, so that's 250K a week we're throwing away due to poor planning and a flawed player recruitment policy. Yet we refuse to increase the wages of our star players, I really don't understand any of it TBH.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Henry got a very, very big loyalty bonus after the CL final.

Either way, the wage structure at this club is very disproportionate to the actual proven performances we get from certain players and that's a huge problem.


Spot on.

[Coney]

Spot on.

Spot on your face.

[tpyo]

Its a competition we've never won. Hence its good to compete in it.
FC Porto won it once so I don't want to hear about how "we'll never be good enough to win it".

[Cripps_orig]

Porto have won it twice

They had a world class manager the 2nd time round, no idea who was manager the first time

We have Wenger

Says it all im afraid

[alexander]

The only point is the money. Nothing more as we will never win it the way we are going now.

[Flavs]

Whenever we've faced a decent side in the Champions League recently, we've gone out. Yes, we can make it out of the group phase comfortably, because the quality of opposition is so mediocre, but you know we'll struggle to get beyond the Quarter Finals these days. Yet Wenger acts as if qualification for this tournament is the holy grail. But what's the point if you're not even competing with the best teams in this tournament, and simply making up the numbers? Sure, smaller teams may just be happy to participate in the UCL, but we're meant to be a big club, and our move to the Emirates was supposed to facilitate our ascent to the top table of European football and become part of the elite. Instead, we've regressed so far that we are simply satisfied to qualify for the tournament, and pick up the money which is all the board and Wenger care about.

I don't give a shit about 4th place anymore, give me 5th/6th and an FA Cup win any day. The Arsenal Economists may think I'm talking bollocks, but I'm a fan at the end of the day, not an accountant worried about the financial costs and benefits of winning the FA Cup compared to qualifying for the UCL.

well i can think of about £30million reasons why 4th is important

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Porto have won it twice

They had a world class manager the 2nd time round, no idea who was manager the first time

We have Wenger

Says it all im afraid

Think what Tpyo was trying to say was, that if Porto can win it when they did no reason we can't. Don't think Jose was the reason Porto won it in all fairness had they not cheated against the mancs they'd have gone out, he got luck which you need.

[tpyo]

Think what Tpyo was trying to say was, that if Porto can win it when they did no reason we can't. Don't think Jose was the reason Porto won it in all fairness had they not cheated against the mancs they'd have gone out, he got luck which you need.

^^ exactlys. It's a knock out tourney so the "best" doesn't always win.... if that makes sense.

[Coney]

well i can think of about £30million reasons why 4th is important

but that does not translate into 30 million attempts to buy some decent players. Just 30 million bits of paper that might as well go straight down the toilet for all the good it does.

[Xhaka Can’t]

but that does not translate into 30 million attempts to buy some decent players. Just 30 million bits of paper that might as well go straight down the toilet for all the good it does.

:gp: I'm tired of keeping PHW in cigars.

[Coney]

:gp: I'm tired of keeping PHW in cigars.

Give them to me - my initials are PWH. :good:

[selassie]

well i can think of about £30million reasons why 4th is important to P Diddy & his monopoly loving cronies.

Fixed

[Power n Glory]

^^ exactlys. It's a knock out tourney so the "best" doesn't always win.... if that makes sense.

For a guy that has served over 10 years with a top 4 European club and consistently qualified for the CL he's a very unlucky man. There aren't many managers that get a chance to build team after team over such a long period. Managers with such a long legacy with one club usually have a European cup win to their name.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Would people really be Upset if we finished 4th

[Coney]

Would people really be Upset if we finished 4th

It's a Catch-22 I think. If we get 4th, nothing will change but we will have seen off chavs, Liverpool and Newcastle. If we don't, then MAYBE change will be forced on the powers that be, but we will be out of Europe (the real one).

Jeez. What am I saying. "seen off Newcastle". Fuck - it has come to that. :(

[tpyo]

For a guy that has served over 10 years with a top 4 European club and consistently qualified for the CL he's a very unlucky man. There aren't many managers that get a chance to build team after team over such a long period. Managers with such a long legacy with one club usually have a European cup win to their name.

Yes.

[tpyo]

It's a Catch-22 I think. If we get 4th, nothing will change but we will have seen off chavs, Liverpool and Newcastle. If we don't, then MAYBE change will be forced on the powers that be, but we will be out of Europe (the real one).

Jeez. What am I saying. "seen off Newcastle". Fuck - it has come to that. :(

Well tbf that sentence does also include the Chavs and Lollerpool.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It's a Catch-22 I think. If we get 4th, nothing will change but we will have seen off chavs, Liverpool and Newcastle. If we don't, then MAYBE change will be forced on the powers that be, but we will be out of Europe (the real one).

Jeez. What am I saying. "seen off Newcastle". Fuck - it has come to that. :(

I see what you mean, and after seeing the mancs and city play today, i really don't want us to play in the europa league. However, id not want us to be in the CL if we are not going to invest for it, im sick off seeing us get beat by the big teams because were happy to settle for the 1/4 -1/2 finals.

[Coney]

Well tbf that sentence does also include the Chavs and Lollerpool.

If you look at the money spent on squads, you'd expect Chav supporters to be more pissed off than we are.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If you look at the money spent on squads, you'd expect Chav supporters to be more pissed off than we are.

same with pool tbh,

[Olivier's xmas twist]

So this is all we have to fight for, whats peopls Opions on it now, do they want us to get it or would it be better to finish 5th.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

i think finishing 4th would be detrimental to the club's future, i think it's a prelude to another self-congratulatory board meeting about how well we have done on a shoestring budget, plastering over how lightweight and out of depth we look when competing for any meaningful silverware.

I want a complete disastrous end to the season, so that Wenger either resigns out of shame or is hounded out

[Niall_Quinn]

Realistically we'd need to be in 3rd place 10 points clear of our closest rivals to stand a chance of securing 4th. We still have the massive choke to come and we're not high enough up the table to bleed those points and hang on to a CL spot. Perhaps if Chelsea and Pool choke even harder than us we could fluke it. But we're pretty damn impressive when it comes to choking, doubt anyone else could live with us in that department.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about us.

[Marc Overmars]

So this is all we have to fight for, whats peopls Opions on it now, do they want us to get it or would it be better to finish 5th.

Obviously it is preferable to finish 4th but I would not get an ounce of satisfaction from it. To me, this season is finished now and frankly it's never really got going anyway.

[Keith]

Obviously it is preferable to finish 4th but I would not get an ounce of satisfaction from it. To me, this season is finished already and frankly it's never really got going.

Agreed, I've not enjoyed a game for a long time. This year has been a shocker, on the back of a few that had so much promise.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Obviously it is preferable to finish 4th but I would not get an ounce of satisfaction from it. To me, this season is finished now and frankly it's never really got going anyway.

I know what you mean, really don't think it matters any which way tbh. The next 13 weeks are going to be Unberable tbh, Can't see the players caring too much once they go out the CL in 2 weeks.

[Marc Overmars]

I'll be surprised if the team even manages to lift themselves and finish 4th. A few of these guys probably won't even be here next season, so I expect many of them will be just be going through the motions and counting down the days until the summer. A bit like the post-Carling Cup final form last year.

[Grebbo]

It's pointless as we only spend the money it brings on (shite) player wages. Plus we'll never, ever win the Champs Lge.

BUT

I'd hate to see Spurs in the Champs Lge and not us.

It's going to be one hell of a battle and I doubt we'll do it but I really hope we get 4th.

[Champagne Charlie]

To be honest I really don’t understand a lot of the attitudes on this thread. I don’t know if some of it’s a knee-jerk reaction to last week’s humiliation or just people realising we probably won’t finish fourth and doing the classic “I didn’t want us to anyway!”

Personally I want to see us playing against the best teams in the world. Yeah, granted we’ve struggled when up against the top teams in recent seasons, but I’d still rather be playing these games than not. The 2-1 win against Barcelona at home last season was by far the best night we’ve had at the emirates. Why would people not want to see us playing in games like that again?

This whole “we’re never going to win it so why bother” attitude is quite frankly ridiculous. We’re not going to win the premier league anytime soon so does that mean we might as well get relegated to the championship!?

I can understand the idea that missing out on the champions league might be the catalyst in kicking the board/manger in to action. But personally I can’t see this board saying “oh shit, we’ve just lost out on a shit load of cash, let’s spend a shit load of cash then”! They’re gonna want to cover those losses from somewhere and the transfer pot seems the most likely place.

And as Grebbo says above, sp*rs playing the champions league and us dicking about on channel 5 on a Thursday would be utter utter shite!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

To be honest I really don’t understand a lot of the attitudes on this thread. I don’t know if some of it’s a knee-jerk reaction to last week’s humiliation or just people realising we probably won’t finish fourth and doing the classic “I didn’t want us to anyway!”

Personally I want to see us playing against the best teams in the world. Yeah, granted we’ve struggled when up against the top teams in recent seasons, but I’d still rather be playing these games than not. The 2-1 win against Barcelona at home last season was by far the best night we’ve had at the emirates. Why would people not want to see us playing in games like that again?

This whole “we’re never going to win it so why bother” attitude is quite frankly ridiculous. We’re not going to win the premier league anytime soon so does that mean we might as well get relegated to the championship!?

I can understand the idea that missing out on the champions league might be the catalyst in kicking the board/manger in to action. But personally I can’t see this board saying “oh shit, we’ve just lost out on a shit load of cash, let’s spend a shit load of cash then”! They’re gonna want to cover those losses from somewhere and the transfer pot seems the most likely place.

And as Grebbo says above, sp*rs playing the champions league and us dicking about on channel 5 on a Thursday would be utter utter shite!

I think its more of a xase of people feeling us being in the CL is no point as were just making up the numbers, Like you say missing out on it may not change anything at all, so its a case of lets just see what happens one way or the other.

But i agree Spurs being in the CL and us not would be shite, so yeah id rather we got in it.

[Grebbo]

To be honest I really don’t understand a lot of the attitudes on this thread. I don’t know if some of it’s a knee-jerk reaction to last week’s humiliation or just people realising we probably won’t finish fourth and doing the classic “I didn’t want us to anyway!”

Personally I want to see us playing against the best teams in the world. Yeah, granted we’ve struggled when up against the top teams in recent seasons, but I’d still rather be playing these games than not. The 2-1 win against Barcelona at home last season was by far the best night we’ve had at the emirates. Why would people not want to see us playing in games like that again?

This whole “we’re never going to win it so why bother” attitude is quite frankly ridiculous. We’re not going to win the premier league anytime soon so does that mean we might as well get relegated to the championship!?

I can understand the idea that missing out on the champions league might be the catalyst in kicking the board/manger in to action. But personally I can’t see this board saying “oh shit, we’ve just lost out on a shit load of cash, let’s spend a shit load of cash then”! They’re gonna want to cover those losses from somewhere and the transfer pot seems the most likely place.

And as Grebbo says above, sp*rs playing the champions league and us dicking about on channel 5 on a Thursday would be utter utter shite!

:gp:

[Syn]

To be honest I really don’t understand a lot of the attitudes on this thread. I don’t know if some of it’s a knee-jerk reaction to last week’s humiliation or just people realising we probably won’t finish fourth and doing the classic “I didn’t want us to anyway!”

Personally I want to see us playing against the best teams in the world. Yeah, granted we’ve struggled when up against the top teams in recent seasons, but I’d still rather be playing these games than not. The 2-1 win against Barcelona at home last season was by far the best night we’ve had at the emirates. Why would people not want to see us playing in games like that again?

This whole “we’re never going to win it so why bother” attitude is quite frankly ridiculous. We’re not going to win the premier league anytime soon so does that mean we might as well get relegated to the championship!?

I can understand the idea that missing out on the champions league might be the catalyst in kicking the board/manger in to action. But personally I can’t see this board saying “oh shit, we’ve just lost out on a shit load of cash, let’s spend a shit load of cash then”! They’re gonna want to cover those losses from somewhere and the transfer pot seems the most likely place.

And as Grebbo says above, sp*rs playing the champions league and us dicking about on channel 5 on a Thursday would be utter utter shite!

I agree with you. But just to play devil's advocate - fans desperately want to see the predictability of all this broken. A season further away from the limelight and Sky and 'club in crisis' and "will x, y, z leave?" bollocks; rip everything up and start again. Travelling away to Dynamo Bucherest and fighting some Eastern European Nazis. Lets just have a bit of fun even if we are shit.

[Fist of Lehmann]

To be honest I really don’t understand a lot of the attitudes on this thread. I don’t know if some of it’s a knee-jerk reaction to last week’s humiliation or just people realising we probably won’t finish fourth and doing the classic “I didn’t want us to anyway!”

Personally I want to see us playing against the best teams in the world. Yeah, granted we’ve struggled when up against the top teams in recent seasons, but I’d still rather be playing these games than not. The 2-1 win against Barcelona at home last season was by far the best night we’ve had at the emirates. Why would people not want to see us playing in games like that again?

This whole “we’re never going to win it so why bother” attitude is quite frankly ridiculous. We’re not going to win the premier league anytime soon so does that mean we might as well get relegated to the championship!?

I can understand the idea that missing out on the champions league might be the catalyst in kicking the board/manger in to action. But personally I can’t see this board saying “oh shit, we’ve just lost out on a shit load of cash, let’s spend a shit load of cash then”! They’re gonna want to cover those losses from somewhere and the transfer pot seems the most likely place.

And as Grebbo says above, sp*rs playing the champions league and us dicking about on channel 5 on a Thursday would be utter utter shite!Yep. Agree with most of that.

Until we know what PHW's austerity measures are going to be, we won't know the full implication of losing the 4th place trophy. Ticket increases, squad cuts. Those are the worst case scenarios.

Maybe everyone from the board down will take a pay cut, as an apology.




:haha:

[Cripps_orig]

http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/virals/2012-02-20/revealed-trophy-available-finishing-fourth-premier-league

To win that trophy

What an idiot our manager truly is :doh:

[Alpha]

Whenever we've faced a decent side in the Champions League recently, we've gone out. Yes, we can make it out of the group phase comfortably, because the quality of opposition is so mediocre, but you know we'll struggle to get beyond the Quarter Finals these days. Yet Wenger acts as if qualification for this tournament is the holy grail. But what's the point if you're not even competing with the best teams in this tournament, and simply making up the numbers? Sure, smaller teams may just be happy to participate in the UCL, but we're meant to be a big club, and our move to the Emirates was supposed to facilitate our ascent to the top table of European football and become part of the elite. Instead, we've regressed so far that we are simply satisfied to qualify for the tournament, and pick up the money which is all the board and Wenger care about.

I don't give a shit about 4th place anymore, give me 5th/6th and an FA Cup win any day. The Arsenal Economists may think I'm talking bollocks, but I'm a fan at the end of the day, not an accountant worried about the financial costs and benefits of winning the FA Cup compared to qualifying for the UCL.

Fourth spot is pointless when you are in a better position . But unfortunately that's what we had to play for this season . We were so comfortable in that position in the past years that we even took it for granted as a divine right .But things have changed , teams have improved and sadly we haven't . The point of securing the fourth place is the money involved and attract decent players . No good player will move to a team with no garantie of champions's league . Unfortunately that's where we are heading to unless our captain ( Arsene Wenger) and his crew ( sorry Arsenal ) turn their bar starboard .Otherwise the ship will sink to no fourth place , no champions league , no big players , the few decent ones we have leaving . Imagine that disaster . More than Armaguedon I think .

[Coney]

tbf, getting knocked out of the CL in this round, and the FA cup in this round - still better than both manu and Citeh.

This manu guy at work got caught twice on this in a week. He made a comment about the Milan game - I asked him how manu got in their Cl game, then "Oh yeah - you weren't even in it". Same again today - "2-0" he said. How did your game go, I asked - "Oh yeah - you didn't make it to this round". :)

[Olivier's xmas twist]

tbf, getting knocked out of the CL in this round, and the FA cup in this round - still better than both manu and Citeh.

This manu guy at work got caught twice on this in a week. He made a comment about the Milan game - I asked him how manu got in their Cl game, then "Oh yeah - you weren't even in it". Same again today - "2-0" he said. How did your game go, I asked - "Oh yeah - you didn't make it to this round". :)

:lol:

Maxpeck :bow:
Manc fan :pal:

[Marc Overmars]

tbf, getting knocked out of the CL in this round, and the FA cup in this round - still better than both manu and Citeh.

This manu guy at work got caught twice on this in a week. He made a comment about the Milan game - I asked him how manu got in their Cl game, then "Oh yeah - you weren't even in it". Same again today - "2-0" he said. How did your game go, I asked - "Oh yeah - you didn't make it to this round". :)

Those are some pretty lame bragging rights.

[Cripps_orig]

Being an Arsenal fan, you take what you can get these days.

Manc should have just said 8-2 or 2-1 and Coney would have STFU and GTFO tbh

Thankfully he didnt so Manc :pal:

[Syn]

Some spud was trying to take the piss this morning saying "that's 6 goals without reply in the last 2 games. Soon to be 10". I didn't reply to him on the spot but just calmly sent an e-mail saying "at least I wasn't adopted". Showed him. Ahh, banter.

[Globalgunner]

All it tells us is where the mentality of this club and the manager is right now. Can you imagine Wenger telling Vieira, Keown, Campbell and mad Jehns that 4th was a trophy and this was the target for the year.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Wow, we used to call the Spuds hysterical.

[LDG]

Wow, we used to call the Spuds hysterical.

:lol:

Tbf, I'm happy to concede to most spuddy that they're the better team. Let them have their fun. We've had plenty over the last 15 years.

Won't be long before it's back the other way again.

A brief foray out of the shadow, if you will.

[Syn]

:lol:Tbf, I'm happy to concede to most spuddy that they're the better team. Let them have their fun. We've had plenty over the last 15 years.Won't be long before it's back the other way again.A brief foray out of the shadow, if you will.Shouldn't be happy to concede just yet. A long way to go. 36 points to play for to make up a 7 point gap after Sunday. I think we are shit. But I also think that making up that difference is do-able.

[fakeyank]

Shouldn't be happy to concede just yet. A long way to go. 36 points to play for to make up a 13 point gap after Sunday. I think we are shit. But I also think that making up that difference is do-able.

Just corrected your little mistake

[LDG]

Shouldn't be happy to concede just yet. A long way to go. 36 points to play for to make up a 7 point gap after Sunday. I think we are shit. But I also think that making up that difference is do-able.

Ever the optimist me :good:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Ever the optimist me :good:

Nah thats Ollie

[LDG]

Nah thats Ollie

rofl

[Gubby Allen]

Personally I want to see us playing against the best teams in the world. Yeah, granted we’ve struggled when up against the top teams in recent seasons, but I’d still rather be playing these games than not. The 2-1 win against Barcelona at home last season was by far the best night we’ve had at the emirates. Why would people not want to see us playing in games like that again?

But we rarely do. This is as much a point about the Champions League, as Arsenal in the Champions League. You ponce about with the most mind numbingly dull group games against one of Sparta or Slavia Prague, Locomotiv Plovdiv & the glamour tie against the champions of Belgium or Portugal. It won't become remotely interesting until the 2nd leg of the quarter final, once the crap have been shat out of it. Until that point, I'm not sure a C.L game would make my top 45 eagerly anticipated Arsenal matches a season.

As great as that Barca 2-1 game was, it was effecitvely going in at half-time 2-1 up. No different to battering Newcastle and going in 4-0 up.

Sure we've enjoyed some belting games in it in the past, the Milan, Madrid wins will live forever, but you can't be enjoying this at the moment. In our last two knock-out games in the tournament itself, it's not an exaggeration to say that we have barely got out of our half and looked completely out of our depth with no sign of it changing.

We have such an enormous squad - over 50 players who've made a first team appearance, I'm not sure us finishing 6th or 7th would improve us but a season in the Europa League for Coquelin, Myachi, Frimpong, Jenkinson, Lansbury, Vela, Aneke - who otherwise, would not get a minute and would be shipped out on loan, might be beneficial in the long term.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

But we rarely do. This is as much a point about the Champions League, as Arsenal in the Champions League. You ponce about with the most mind numbingly dull group games against one of Sparta or Slavia Prague, Locomotiv Plovdiv & the glamour tie against the champions of Belgium or Portugal. It won't become remotely interesting until the 2nd leg of the quarter final, once the crap have been shat out of it. Until that point, I'm not sure a C.L game would make my top 45 eagerly anticipated Arsenal matches a season.

As great as that Barca 2-1 game was, it was effecitvely going in at half-time 2-1 up. No different to battering Newcastle and going in 4-0 up.

Sure we've enjoyed some belting games in it in the past, the Milan, Madrid wins will live forever, but you can't be enjoying this at the moment. In our last two knock-out games in the tournament itself, it's not an exaggeration to say that we have barely got out of our half and looked completely out of our depth with no sign of it changing.

We have such an enormous squad - over 50 players who've made a first team appearance, I'm not sure us finishing 6th or 7th would improve us but a season in the Europa League for Coquelin, Myachi, Frimpong, Jenkinson, Lansbury, Vela, Aneke - who otherwise, would not get a minute and would be shipped out on loan, might be beneficial in the long term.

With the CL to win it you need a good sqaud but also a bit of luck along the way, if we got an easy draw there is nout to say we can't win it. We may have a better chance of winning the Europa league. Bit we don't have a right to just turn up and think we can win that, because there are some good teams when it comes down to the serious end of business.

Every club wants to be in the CL whether they win it or not.

[Marc Overmars]

There aren't many easy draws once the knockouts kick in. You might be able to get away with a 2nd round pub team (although we weren't afforded such luck this year), but after that you're bound to run into a string of top teams en route to the final. What's evident is that we always fail once we need to step it up a gear. Milan in 2008 is the only tie we've risen to the occasion for since 2006. Otherwise we always lose the big ones. Liverpool, United, Barca, likely to be Milan this year. Our wins over 2 legs have come against Roma, Villarreal and Porto...that's our level really. Wenger has never really cracked this competition and I suspect he never will. Course I would absolutley splaff my pants if we ever won the CL, but I just find it demoralising knowing our limits and having no belief the team can compete on this stage.

[Özim]

We don't have a cat in hells chance of winning the CL, not even through luck because we don't have an efficient and well drilled team, we know we don't have the talent but to be able to knockout superior teams you need discipline, good tactics, work rate, desire and a never say die atttitude we have none of those.

I hate the CL it's a waste of time and a bore and watching us getting outclassed every season once we get to the knockout stages is not fun, qualifying for it also maintains this pipedream that we can win it (particularly in Wenger's head).

[Xhaka Can’t]

We also need magic jellybeans instead of that stupid hat.

[Letters]

We also need magic jellybeans instead of that stupid hat.

Are you pissed again?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Are you pissed again?

That magic hat hasn't done anything in years.

If you can think of anything better than magic jellybeans, be my guest.

[GP]

That magic hat hasn't done anything in years.

If you can think of anything better than magic jellybeans, be my guest.

Magical Trevor?

[Xhaka Can’t]

MT 4 manager!

[fakeyank]

Absolutely no point being 4th. One reason why it was something that would've helped us is financially but we all know the money won't be spent. Oh and not to forget the embarrassing losses every season the moment we play the first decent side.
We should just concentrate on the fa cup and see if we can win that.

[Coney]

Those are some pretty lame bragging rights.

It stopped his banter. Job done. Mind you, if manu win the title again, it will be unbearable.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We don't have a cat in hells chance of winning the CL, not even through luck because we don't have an efficient and well drilled team, we know we don't have the talent but to be able to knockout superior teams you need discipline, good tactics, work rate, desire and a never say die atttitude we have none of those.

I hate the CL it's a waste of time and a bore and watching us getting outclassed every season once we get to the knockout stages is not fun, qualifying for it also maintains this pipedream that we can win it (particularly in Wenger's head).

Yep becuase the Europa league would be far more interesting to watch and a joy when we get knocked out by porto in the semi's. No one wants to see us playing some shite russian side.

[Cripps_orig]

No one wants to see us get our asses handed to us by the first decent team we face in the CL either

[Olivier's xmas twist]

No one wants to see us get our asses handed to us by the first decent team we face in the CL either

You have a point, but i rather get beatern by Barca in the CL then Valencia in the Europa league. No point saying the club is not ambitous if you want to settle fot it being in the Europa league.

[Cripps_orig]

Losing is losing.

Seeing as we are less likely to lose in the EL although with Wenger in charge, we'd lose to some team from the outer reaches of Leichtenstein or Scotland, countries of that calibre so it doesnt make a difference.

Moral of the story - Wenger out

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Losing is losing.

Seeing as we are less likely to lose in the EL although with Wenger in charge, we'd lose to some team from the outer reaches of Leichtenstein or Scotland, countries of that calibre so it doesnt make a difference.

Moral of the story - Wenger out

Exactly if were gonna loose in the El we may as well loose in the CL.

[Cripps_orig]

Exactly if were gonna loose in the El we may as well loose in the CL.We might go further in the EL though

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We might go further in the EL though

We probs might and we may not win it, don't mean we should settle for it, but i suppose this is what the club has sank too.

[Coney]

http://www.talksport.co.uk/sites/default/files/imagecache/ts_magazine_big_picture/TinPotTrophy.JPG

4th place trophy.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

http://www.talksport.co.uk/sites/default/files/imagecache/ts_magazine_big_picture/TinPotTrophy.JPG

4th place trophy.

:haha:

:bow: Wumger

[Kano]

Exactly if were gonna loose in the El we may as well loose in the CL.

exactly. let's scrap all but 3/4 teams for the CL, similar for the world cup and 18 teams in the PL. the others will never have a hope of winning it so why bother?

let's just stick to the realistic winners and have done.

[Flavs]

Whenever we've faced a decent side in the Champions League recently, we've gone out. Yes, we can make it out of the group phase comfortably, because the quality of opposition is so mediocre, but you know we'll struggle to get beyond the Quarter Finals these days. Yet Wenger acts as if qualification for this tournament is the holy grail. But what's the point if you're not even competing with the best teams in this tournament, and simply making up the numbers? Sure, smaller teams may just be happy to participate in the UCL, but we're meant to be a big club, and our move to the Emirates was supposed to facilitate our ascent to the top table of European football and become part of the elite. Instead, we've regressed so far that we are simply satisfied to qualify for the tournament, and pick up the money which is all the board and Wenger care about.

I don't give a shit about 4th place anymore, give me 5th/6th and an FA Cup win any day. The Arsenal Economists may think I'm talking bollocks, but I'm a fan at the end of the day, not an accountant worried about the financial costs and benefits of winning the FA Cup compared to qualifying for the UCL.

So you only want us to play in the champions league if we are going to win it?

Jeez, what a knob jockey

[Olivier's xmas twist]

exactly. let's scrap all but 3/4 teams for the CL, similar for the world cup and 18 teams in the PL. they others will never have a hope of winning it so why bother?

let's just stick to the realistic winners and have done.

Yep we may as well let Barca keep the cup for the next 5 years and be done with it

[Flavs]

We also need magic jellybeans instead of that stupid hat.

Funny that cos i was just thinking what a talent Miyachi and Le Coq look.

[Joker]

So you only want us to play in the champions league if we are going to win it?

Jeez, what a knob jockey

I didn't say that did I? I was talking about COMPETING against the best teams in the competition, rather than limply exiting the competition in the 2nd round/quarter finals. All the club hierarchy talk about is qualifying for the Champions League, never about actually trying to win it. I'm not saying we should win the tournament every season, that's impossible because there are too many top sides. It's about showing some ambition in terms of our signings so that we can actually give it a go. That's what football should be about. If Wenger had shown more ambition, and made it clear he was looking to win the Champions League and backed it up with top quality signings, then people wouldn't complain so much. We may not have won it even then, but at least the effort was there.

[Coney]

So you only want us to play in the champions league if we are going to win it?

Jeez, what a knob jockey

:haha: Spat my coffee