Should Wenger go?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

On a related sub-topic, for those who want him out, when did you move past the point of no return?

.

When he decided to give Johan Djorou a new contract, kind off showed me maybe his is happy with mediocrite (sp) and we don't need a manager like that. This was the final straw for me tbh.

[Gubby Allen]

On a related sub-topic, for those who want him out, when did you move past the point of no return?

For me it was when we bottled the NLD at home last year. I felt that to throw away another lead in a game of that magnitude was just unforgivable - especially given as it had already happened 2 years earlier in the same fixture. I knew for sure then that we had a team who simply could not be trusted at all.

I was very early, one of the first after Zimm and in a minority at that point - but I saw where we were going and it was pretty much this.

Although admittedly I clocked in about 2008 that we were never winning another trophy under AW again, I never even changed my mind on the morning of the CC final last year but it took me about a season to move from that to actually wanting him to go.

It was the CC final (and few days eithr side of it) last year where I first really started to dislike him and the current club - as much as you can dislike your own club.

[notwist]

If you forget the first million years and just think of the last 7, what would be your conclusion? I know that's very hard on Arsene but this is a hard business. We should not be starting the 2012-13 season thinking a trophy is impossible. But if Wenger is in charge, does anybody think otherwise?

[Syn]

It was the CC final (and few days eithr side of it) last year where I first really started to dislike him and the current club - as much as you can dislike your own club.

I can't dislike him but the Carling Cup final was the point where I realised that Wenger is championing a load of mentally fragile players. I wouldn't have been upset if Wenger had been sacked well before then, but that was the point where I thought that there was a serious mental block that was never going to be removed with Wenger in charge. What made is more transparent from previous years was Wilshere's performance. He seemed to be the only one who knew the value of playing in a Wembley Cup final and he worked his bollocks off, popping up everywhere and was denied a wundergoal by the woodwork. I go on about him but that's because last season I felt Wilshere was the only one representing the fans. He didn't deserve to be on the losing team and he didn't deserve to be playing alongside the players he was. So I think the club (and fans) need a manager who will build a team with balls.

[Cripps_orig]

On a related sub-topic, for those who want him out, when did you move past the point of no return?

For me it was when we bottled the NLD at home last year. I felt that to throw away another lead in a game of that magnitude was just unforgivable - especially given as it had already happened 2 years earlier in the same fixture. I knew for sure then that the manager had built a team who simply could not be trusted at all.Wigan game April 2010

We had just lost to Spuds the wednesday before to knock our title hopes but Spuds then go and beat Chelsea the weekend after meaning we could get right back in. We play shit but somehow lead 2-0. Wigan score 3 in last 10 minutes and the rest as they say is history

[Syn]

Wigan game April 2010

We had just lost to Spuds the wednesday before to knock our title hopes but Spuds then go and beat Chelsea the weekend after meaning we could get right back in. We play shit but somehow lead 2-0. Wigan score 3 in last 10 minutes and the rest as they say is history

Yeah, that was a bad one.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If you forget the first million years and just think of the last 7, what would be your conclusion? I know that's very hard on Arsene but this is a hard business. We should not be starting the 2012-13 season thinking a trophy is impossible. But if Wenger is in charge, does anybody think otherwise?

From 2006-2010, some will say it was acceptable as we all knew the aim was to challenge for the league, but finishing in the top 4 was not bad. But from 2010-now. You'd have to say its been a disaster and we should of won something in the last 3 years and Projet youth should have got off the ground.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wigan game April 2010

We had just lost to Spuds the wednesday before to knock our title hopes but Spuds then go and beat Chelsea the weekend after meaning we could get right back in. We play shit but somehow lead 2-0. Wigan score 3 in last 10 minutes and the rest as they say is history

Yep i remeber that we got battred by Barca and once again a defeat in the CL cause a collapsed in the league, which has happend again in the last 2 seasons

[fakeyank]

As does Wenger. You can accuse him of many things but not caring about winning and not caring about Arsenal is not fair.
Which, combined with the good times he brought us, is why personal insults aimed at him are, IMO, out of line. And they add nothing to your arguments. If anything they detract from them which is a pity because your opinions are not unreasonable when stripped of the hysteria.

Its not that the vile and anger towards Arsene came out just because he is not winning. Its the way he takes the fans for a ride with his BS that has got him to this position. Ex: Waiting period, 2% from domination, super quality players, the way he handled Cesc's and Nasri's transfer, his 100% support of the 'suspected' vision of the board.

The last part is bold because that is the most important one. Currently we have 2 scenarios that is bringing our club down- Either its AW completely losing it OR it is the board tearing up this club for their own benefit and desire. I think its the former BUT for a second, lets say the later is true. My problem here is AW's uni-vocal support for that shit. Why would a 'football' manager openly support the daylight looting of a club he is managing.. he can quit any second! Its not like he will be a poor man tomorrow for it or have a tough time finding a job.
I know quite a few have said that there is no doubt that AW loves the club and cares dearly for it... how do you know that? If he did, he wouldnt back the owners. You dont think that it would be better if he quit and gave a press conference a day or a week later citing his constant battle with the board regarding player transfers? You dont think the fans would go up in arms together (for a change) and revolt against this board? This also saves his legacy as of one of the greatest Arsenal managers ever... BUT guess what he is doing? He is the mouth piece of the board AND thats why my friend, I call him whatever I call him and he absolutely 100% deserves it!

[Dog Toffee]

I dont think Wenger should go. I love him too much. Ive also yet to read one single post that convinces me the alternative would be any better.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I dont think Wenger should go. I love him too much. Ive also yet to read one single post that convinces me the alternative would be any better.

If you love Wenger so much why don't you marry him?...or get a civil partnership or whatever the equivalent is.

[Dog Toffee]

I would if I could. Maybe il just stalk him and he'd have to get an injunction out on me.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I would if I could. Maybe il just stalk him and he'd have to get an injunction out on me.

Well don't be disheartened or put off by the injunction, no good stalker worth his salt would do that!

[Letters]

My problem here is AW's uni-vocal support for that shit. Why would a 'football' manager openly support the daylight looting of a club he is managing.. he can quit any second! Its not like he will be a poor man tomorrow for it or have a tough time finding a job.

Because he signed a contract and he has integrity. He has shown that throughout his career.
As for whether he loves the club, you can see that however much our decline is hurting us it's hurting him more. You can SEE it. Look at him on the touchline, he's in pain. Whether he's the right man to do anything about it, I agree he isn't. But whether anyone else can with our idiot board is highly debatable.
I don't think he backs the owners any more than he really thinks our squad is super, super quality. But he's not going to say anything publicly. Maybe he should but if nothing else he's a man of principle.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

whatever one says about the board and their financial "i drink your milkshake" stance towards the club, i don't think it's responsible for the paucity of performances on the pitch. Win or lose is one thing, but to have no fight, no ideas and be bashing our heads against the proverbial brick wall season in season out like we have under this man is completely down to one man.

[Letters]

I don't think we lack fight right now. We lack ability.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't think we lack fight right now. We lack ability.

I disagree, i think we lack both ability and fight....i don't think a single sunderland player is better than any of the players we had on the pitch last night, we are average and they are even more average but they had fight.

In the past we just lacked fight

[Power n Glory]

whatever one says about the board and their financial "i drink your milkshake" stance towards the club, i don't think it's responsible for the paucity of performances on the pitch. Win or lose is one thing, but to have no fight, no ideas and be bashing our heads against the proverbial brick wall season in season out like we have under this man is completely down to one man.

It's not the right conversation. This team looks totally different from the Carling Cup collapse team but we have the se problems. The symptoms go all the way back Henry's days as Captaon, the Gallas era, Cesc's and now RVP's. Lack of ability is one thing, but there was a distinct lack of effort over the past couple of games. Milan was criminal. It shouldn't take a superstar players to fix this and in fact, I think Wenger would have a much harder time telling a superstar player to track back and defend because they can be the most difficult when it comes to that sort of thing and it takes a strong coach to get them to work hard on defence otherwise they'd take the piss and stay up front all day.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

whatever one says about the board and their financial "i drink your milkshake" stance towards the club, i don't think it's responsible for the paucity of performances on the pitch. Win or lose is one thing, but to have no fight, no ideas and be bashing our heads against the proverbial brick wall season in season out like we have under this man is completely down to one man.

Whilst i agree what goes on the pitch is down to the manager, but in a way if the board are not relasing transfer money to him Then it is down to them. The team is not good enough thats the problem.

Its not about their players not being better then ours its being a team and we suck as one. The team needed investment to make it much better and once you have a balanced team coaching becomes easier.

This was the last chance to win a trophy, something the players keep banging on about, they really should not need a manager to motivate them in it, at HT they should have pumped themselves up, but they could not.

A manager can only motivate a team so far in his control.

[Letters]

I disagree, i think we lack both ability and fight....i don't think a single sunderland player is better than any of the players we had on the pitch last night, we are average and they are even more average but they had fight.

In the past we just lacked fight

Mmm. Maybe you're right :(
Although there was a phase this season, after the disastrous start, where we seemed to be getting it together and they did look like a decent side there for a while who had a bit of fight about them. Now, I just don't know :(

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Mmm. Maybe you're right :(
Although there was a phase this season, after the disastrous start, where we seemed to be getting it together and they did look like a decent side there for a while who had a bit of fight about them. Now, I just don't know :(

Because the pressure was off, as soon as we maneuvered ourselves into a position of respectability that's when the shit results started kicking in, we got 4th on new years eve and then lost three games afterwards.......a team tends to always take on the characteristics of it's manager, and this team has no character.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The team is nowhere near being good enough, but it is better than how it performs under pressure situations.

The more they talk about 'fight' and showing 'response to a poor performance' the more you should cash in and back against them. If we had acted as cold hearted punters over the past 4 years or more, rather than Arsenal fans, based upon predictions reguarly made on this forum, we'd be fairly well off individuals.

[Power n Glory]

Its not that the vile and anger towards Arsene came out just because he is not winning. Its the way he takes the fans for a ride with his BS that has got him to this position. Ex: Waiting period, 2% from domination, super quality players, the way he handled Cesc's and Nasri's transfer, his 100% support of the 'suspected' vision of the board.

The last part is bold because that is the most important one. Currently we have 2 scenarios that is bringing our club down- Either its AW completely losing it OR it is the board tearing up this club for their own benefit and desire. I think its the former BUT for a second, lets say the later is true. My problem here is AW's uni-vocal support for that shit. Why would a 'football' manager openly support the daylight looting of a club he is managing.. he can quit any second! Its not like he will be a poor man tomorrow for it or have a tough time finding a job.
I know quite a few have said that there is no doubt that AW loves the club and cares dearly for it... how do you know that? If he did, he wouldnt back the owners. You dont think that it would be better if he quit and gave a press conference a day or a week later citing his constant battle with the board regarding player transfers? You dont think the fans would go up in arms together (for a change) and revolt against this board? This also saves his legacy as of one of the greatest Arsenal managers ever... BUT guess what he is doing? He is the mouth piece of the board AND thats why my friend, I call him whatever I call him and he absolutely 100% deserves it!

I don't think there is any conflict between Wenger and the board. If they're trying to milk is dry they have to complete morons to not look at that wage bill and think that's the biggest bleeder of money that needs rectifying. It makes no sense selling everything you own to pay off a bill when your outgoings continue to go up and up year on year. We're seeing a mismanagement of funds from the management and it's evident from the wage bill and the fact that guys like Djourou get offered a new contract and if RVP isn't offered what it will take for him to stay here, then you have to llook back at DJ's extension and question the logic behind this policy.

If the wage bill was going down along with the quality of players we had, then I could agree when people say we're getting raped by the owners. But whoever is looking at the books and telling Wenger to sell players for profits must have spotted the £100m wage bill and I would have thought that would have been on the agenda to lower. Before extending Djourou's contract someone should be prodding him on the shoulder and asking whether he's sure he wants to extend and injury prone useless squad player's contract when our captain and top scorer still hasn't signed his.

It's a flawed strategy we have here. Walcott is 22 and close to hitting the 100k a week mark. We're overspending on shit players and someone has to spot this flaw. I don't think there is any conflict between the Board and manager on spending. Financially prudent people are able to spot this sort of shit and know that you can't keep selling assets to maintain. You have to lower the bills somehow.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Because he signed a contract and he has integrity. He has shown that throughout his career.
As for whether he loves the club, you can see that however much our decline is hurting us it's hurting him more. You can SEE it. Look at him on the touchline, he's in pain. Whether he's the right man to do anything about it, I agree he isn't. But whether anyone else can with our idiot board is highly debatable.
I don't think he backs the owners any more than he really thinks our squad is super, super quality. But he's not going to say anything publicly. Maybe he should but if nothing else he's a man of principle.

Whilst i agree AW cares for the club highly, I don't think he cares for football anymore, well thats what i see when i look at him, i don't see the motivation that i say in the vidro that Coney posted in another thread. For me this transfers to the players.

I want to see that Wenger that used to give it to fergie, and chav managers. I want to see that Wenger who gave it to Jol and Pardew. Not this lonley shell off a man who looks like he as Just gambled his house away and is in the shit with his missus.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I don't think we lack fight right now. We lack ability.


To be honest Lettets, I was really thinking that we had got that fighting spirit back and that we wete becoming a more balanced team and that a decent base was being formed but the fight started to get knocked out of us over December and it looks like we know not how to get it back!

It is no coincidence that it happens to us again and again at the same stage of the season. . .I have resisted for so long to call for Wenger to go, well have been conservative in the way I put it but even if we didnt lose another game all season, I would still have to say that it would be best handing the reigns over. . . .

A lot will dance a merry dance but it will do nothing but hurt to see Wenger go, especially in such circumstances

[Olivier's xmas twist]

To be honest Lettets, I was really thinking that we had got that fighting spirit back and that we wete becoming a more balanced team and that a decent base was being formed but the fight started to get knocked out of us over December and it looks like we know not how to get it back!

It is no coincidence that it happens to us again and again at the same stage of the season. . .I have resisted for so long to call for Wenger to go, well have been conservative in the way I put it but even if we didnt lose another game all season, I would still have to say that it would be best handing the reigns over. . . .

A lot will dance a merry dance but it will do nothing but hurt to see Wenger go, especially in such circumstances

Yep as much as most want him out, don't think any gooner really hates him deep down we will all be sad to see him go even if its only the 2% in us that does.

Agree he should hand in that letter too, whatever happend, next season should be a new start lets build from there.

[Power n Glory]

Mmm. Maybe you're right :(
Although there was a phase this season, after the disastrous start, where we seemed to be getting it together and they did look like a decent side there for a while who had a bit of fight about them. Now, I just don't know :(

I did say it was too early to judge the character of this team. It's no different to what we've seen in the past. Around this stage we always fall apart. We always pick up injuries and always look jaded.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Why because vyou bsaid so. Winning the league is nothing wee havent done before, Madrid have sacked mangars that have won leagues and CL. Yet 2004 is held up as the pinnacle of football. I wanted him out after we bottled the CL. How does yuours o anyones opinion mattter more than any other. Maybe I was being prescient maybe you cannot accept that Wenger is an abject failure now. Or are you running a Gaddafi show here now, that brooks no other opinions

And when Real sacked thoses managers we have wondered what the hell they were doing?
You use our bottling the CL but that would never have been reason to sack Wenger in 2004, as the team had just shown how strong it was and that we had every reason to believe we would get another bite at the cherry!
We arent as heartless as the likes of Real, who care nothing (in hindsight maybe we should have been) . .but I do wonder about your claim to have had the notion that we should have rid ourselves of Wenger after achieving something no other team had done and at the same time won the league doing so!

[BOBN]

wenger leaving might be the only way to get back to a sensible wage structure where the kids are paid like kids and top players like top players. cant see a new manager agreeing to put the next bendtner on 52k a week.

but youd expect the next manger to have much less power so maybe he wouldnt be able to effect change on that matter.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Why because vyou bsaid so. Winning the league is nothing wee havent done before, Madrid have sacked mangars that have won leagues and CL. Yet 2004 is held up as the pinnacle of football. I wanted him out after we bottled the CL. How does yuours o anyones opinion mattter more than any other. Maybe I was being prescient maybe you cannot accept that Wenger is an abject failure now. Or are you running a Gaddafi show here now, that brooks no other opinions

How Can it be his fault that Lehman got sent off did he tell him to be stupid, all that Henry instead of showing of missing 2 1 on 1's did he tell henry to miss them.

Wenger did all he could in that came to motivate the team it was the players who failed that day.

[Syn]

I think he's talking about the game against Chelsea in '04, Wayne Bridge's goal and all that. But if he is talking about the CL final in '06 - nobody 'failed' or 'bottled it' that day. As crazy as it sounds, sometimes, a good team can beat another good team without either team being shit. It was a courageous performance under difficult circumstances.

[Dog Toffee]

So we're agreed, Wenger should definitely stay, phew.

[BOBN]

i think the "i told you so" types are getting too giddy now. Saying he should have been out in 04 is thick. I think anybody who wanted him out before 09 was totally wrong. There was too much uncertainty on the money issue and 07-08 was a magificent team.

[Marc Overmars]

Look at the line up from that 07/08 team, they're all gone apart from RVP and Rosicky, that was only 4 years ago and the squad had been turned over. Is it any wonder why we never seem to aquire a bit of stability.

[Özim]

Look at the line up from that 07/08 team, they're all gone apart from RVP and Rosicky, that was only 4 years ago and the squad had been turned over. Is it any wonder why we never seem to aquire a bit of stability.
Wenger is building a team for the future who are the best group of players he has ever had and only 2% away from domination.

[fakeyank]

Because he signed a contract and he has integrity. He has shown that throughout his career.
As for whether he loves the club, you can see that however much our decline is hurting us it's hurting him more. You can SEE it. Look at him on the touchline, he's in pain. Whether he's the right man to do anything about it, I agree he isn't. But whether anyone else can with our idiot board is highly debatable.
I don't think he backs the owners any more than he really thinks our squad is super, super quality. But he's not going to say anything publicly. Maybe he should but if nothing else he's a man of principle.

Integrity? What is the integrity in going hand in hand with the daylight looting of the club he loves?! You say he loves the club, if he does, the best thing to do is quit. Or is his 'integrity' that you talk about more important than the club he loves?

I do see him in pain. He is in pain because he is a stubborn man who is seeing his deluded principles break down one brick at a time. The more I think about his demise as a football manager, the more I come to the realization that most of our success was because of Dein being behind his arse. I wonder what we wouldve won if Dein wasnt there at our club from 98-2004!

[gunnerrrrr]

http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/call-collymore/blog/2012-02-19/auclair-i-cant-see-arsene-wenger-being-sacked-arsenal?

interesting comments from Auclair (whoever the fuck that is)

[BOBN]

http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/call-collymore/blog/2012-02-19/auclair-i-cant-see-arsene-wenger-being-sacked-arsenal?

interesting comments from Auclair (whoever the fuck that is)
damning on the board, exposes them as useless ****s in the transfer market, which we knew already but hey

[Syn]

Wenger said: 'People are always asking the same question, but the first trophy is to finish in the top four and that is still possible for us. I believe that is vital for us, so let’s focus on that.

'We have what it takes at the club and we will add what it takes. But at the moment I believe we are not making plans for next season, we are making plans for the next game.

'We have what it takes when everybody is available, because we are missing big, big players.

'When you think we are in mid-February and Wilshire and Diaby have zero games, Mertesacker is out for the rest of the season, Santos is out for three months, that would be difficult for any club in the world to deal with. It’s hard enough to lose one or two players and we have lost too many.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2103404/Arsene-Wenger-vows-remain-Arsenal-boss.html#ixzz1msBg4Vu2

:haha:

People will focus on the '4th place is the first trophy' comment. The thing that winds me up - and I don't know why it still does - is the comment on "missing big, big players".

We always fucking have big, big players out. Imagine for a second that we had the big player out (no, not Santos or Arshavin). Imagine if Van Persie was injured. It's hard to imagine us appearing in the first page of ceefax 324. Planning your league campaign on the idea that you won't miss your big, big players is ludicrous. Especially when you consider our injury record in recent years. It's not a fucking coincidence. Sort it the fuck out or resign.

[Marc Overmars]

The first trophy is to finish in the top 4?

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg

















http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2011/03/Arsene_415.jpg

[McNamara That Ghost...]

"...so let's focus on that".

Well we don't have much bloody choice do we? :lol:

[Gubby Allen]

As for whether he loves the club, you can see that however much our decline is hurting us it's hurting him more. You can SEE it. Look at him on the touchline, he's in pain.

But is that not EXACTLY the same as every single one of the other 91 managers in the league look when things are going wrong. Mick McCarthy was looked like it hurt him, Wolves were plummeting, Moyes looks in the same pain Everton will never be better than 8th, Coyle looks like he's in pain. I'd expect nothing less from any manager. The only ones that you can say don't are probably more animated like Kean trying to impact on the game.

[GunnerFan4Life]

Its time for a change at the club, the decline of our club isn't a patch of bad form, something at the top needs to change. It annoys me when pundits and players say AW can't leave and he shouldn't be criticized because of what he's DONE, but they never reflect on the things that are ruining his legacy and how today isn't the same as those days.

[Gubby Allen]

:haha:

People will focus on the '4th place is the first trophy' comment. The thing that winds me up - and I don't know why it still does - is the comment on "missing big, big players".

We always fucking have big, big players out. Imagine for a second that we had the big player out (no, not Santos or Arshavin). Imagine if Van Persie was injured. It's hard to imagine us appearing in the first page of ceefax 324. Planning your league campaign on the idea that you won't miss your big, big players is ludicrous. Especially when you consider our injury record in recent years. It's not a fucking coincidence. Sort it the fuck out or resign.

Wenger & a lot of his fans, really piss me off with that "4h place/trophy" bollocks. There was one on 606 today. It is everything that is wrong with modern day football - and our own manager openly advocates it.

Everything is money & 4th place. Old things like trophies, finals, Wembley matches etc, mean nothing now. All you need to do is settle for 4th, for the money of the overhyped and 90% tediously dull Champions League and that's your objectives reached.

If we'd had our 1993 seasons again now (which was one of the best & most enjoyable in my time) it would be deemed a flop in todays football. A phenomenal season, winning both domestic cups, 4 wembley matches in about 6 weeks, 5 in 3 months & a decent but not great league campaign. But no - today's objective is to come 4th & get knocked out of those by a semi decent pub side.

4th is only an arbetary place set by Uefa anyway, I'd love Platini to revise it to 3rd so this banal attidude of settling for a random place plucked out the air, as constituting success would stop. If he offered 5 or even 6 places to the P.L the worst thing is, the culture of this club would gear themselves to coming 6th each year as being successful.

[Cripps_orig]

Its funny you mention the 92-93 season...

[Letters]

I do see him in pain. He is in pain because he is a stubborn man who is seeing his deluded principles break down one brick at a time. The more I think about his demise as a football manager, the more I come to the realization that most of our success was because of Dein being behind his arse. I wonder what we wouldve won if Dein wasnt there at our club from 98-2004!

That is a good question, Wenger was clearly better in partnership with Dein but that doesn't mean Dein should be given all the credit. You could equally say how many trophies would we have won with Dein around in that era but a different manager. I suspect nowhere near as many and not with the style we did it. If you have any understanding or knowledge of English football history and the way the club was pre-Wenger and the way he changed things you'll know how revolutionary his methods were at the time. To say otherwise is just revisionism.

[Flavs]

Dein :lol:

[GP]

That is a good question, Wenger was clearly better in partnership with Dein but that doesn't mean Dein should be given all the credit. You could equally say how many trophies would we have won with Dein around in that era but a different manager. I suspect nowhere near as many and not with the style we did it. If you have any understanding or knowledge of English football history and the way the club was pre-Wenger and the way he changed things you'll know how revolutionary his methods were at the time. To say otherwise is just revisionism.

What do you mean?

[LDG]

What do you mean?

I think he means that David Dien is not a top flight football manager, and if you stuck him in charge of our first eleven now, he'd probably play his son on the wing so he could earn a few quid.

[GP]

I think he means that David Dien is not a top flight football manager, and if you stuck him in charge of our first eleven now, he'd probably play his son on the wing so he could earn a few quid.

No, no, I mean, what does 'Revisionism' mean?

:shrug:

[LDG]

No, no, I mean, what does 'Revisionism' mean?

:shrug:

Something I didn't do at college? :shrug:

[Xhaka Can’t]

No, no, I mean, what does 'Revisionism' mean?

:shrug:

It means you should shut the hell up.

A secondary meaning is 'rewriting history often incorporating a bias towards the author's point of view rather than what actually happened'.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The first trophy is to finish in the top 4?

Bit of a daft thing for AW to say, but with his players mentally weak, he was never going to say anything less to make them feel worse. But its not the thing he needs to be saying if he did and its not the daily fail twisting words again.

[GP]

It means you should shut the hell up.

A lot of words mean that :(

[fakeyank]

That is a good question, Wenger was clearly better in partnership with Dein but that doesn't mean Dein should be given all the credit. You could equally say how many trophies would we have won with Dein around in that era but a different manager. I suspect nowhere near as many and not with the style we did it. If you have any understanding or knowledge of English football history and the way the club was pre-Wenger and the way he changed things you'll know how revolutionary his methods were at the time. To say otherwise is just revisionism.

I am not saying AW 'wasnt' good. I am wondering how much of AW winning things in 98-2004 was down to the Wenger-Dein partnership rather than just AW himself.

[Power n Glory]

These are the sort of comments that bother people and it's part of the reason why players leave our club. He may regard 4th as an achievement but it's not to the players. He has low standards and that's unforgivable. Transfer funds, lack of investment...all that back room board stuff is irrelevant if this is his attitude.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

These are the sort of comments that bother people and it's part of the reason why players leave our club. He may regard 4th as an achievement but it's not to the players. He has low standards and that's unforgivable. Transfer funds, lack of investment...all that back room board stuff is irrelevant if this is his attitude.

Well it is to ours if they are accepting it, however if they wanted to they can use their brains, Think Feck what the manager says "we want more as a team, lets show we can achive the best" Good players know how to defy managers, look at Roy Keane, You thinkhe gave 2 shits what fergie said no he did what was needed for him.

We have too many pussy's who are happy to settle for 4th but when they realise things don't change they want to move like they have been wronged.

Time for AW to STFU, time for the board to sort themselves out and it really is time for the players to use those brains.

[Power n Glory]

Well it is to ours if they are accepting it, however if they wanted to they can use their brains, Think Feck what the manager says "we want more as a team, lets show we can achive the best" Good players know how to defy managers, look at Roy Keane, You thinkhe gave 2 shits what fergie said no he did what was needed for him.

We have too many pussy's who are happy to settle for 4th but when they realise things don't change they want to move like they have been wronged.

Time for AW to STFU, time for the board to sort themselves out and it really is time for the players to use those brains.

It's not as simple as the players just deciding 'they want it more'. It takes a combination of will power, leadership, skill and strategy. We're lacking in all departments. If it was a case of simply defeying the manager and players organising themselves, we wouldn't need a manager.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It's not as simple as the players just deciding 'they want it more'. It takes a combination of will power, leadership, skill and strategy. We're lacking in all departments. If it was a case of simply defeying the manager and players organising themselves, we wouldn't need a manager.

True, But you as a player have to want it as well, I agree had wenger signed better players the mentality maybe diffrent but even so. If we got to the CL final (just say) id not expect these lot to except 2nd place because AW said its ok or 4th its ok.

[LDG]

Fourth is all we could realistically expect this season anyway. It was different last season, and that "fourth place trophy" bullshit was incredibly infuriating.

This season (despite the Wenger muppetry of saying "trophy"), fourth would be a real achievement, ALL things considered.

[GP]

http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae331/mattlamb1982/WUMger.jpg

[LDG]

Still makes me lol a bit :lol:

[Power n Glory]

True, But you as a player have to want it as well, I agree had wenger signed better players the mentality maybe diffrent but even so. If we got to the CL final (just say) id not expect these lot to except 2nd place because AW said its ok or 4th its ok.

I'm sure the players want to win every game. But it doesn't matter how much a player like Djourou wants to win, won't change the fact that he'a lacking in the skill department. Also, your missing the point. I'm saying I'm not surprised about so many players leaving when they hear him talk like this. Players like Cesc, Nasri and maybe RVP. His refusal to buy proper players when we have injuries must be frustrating for them and then when you hear this and see his inactivity in the summer, it must take it's toll.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Fourth is all we could realistically expect this season anyway. It was different last season, and that "fourth place trophy" bullshit was incredibly infuriating.

This season (despite the Wenger muppetry of saying "trophy"), fourth would be a real achievement, ALL things considered.

:gp: Even if we beat Sunderland in all honesty would we have really gone on to win the cup, probs not.

[Fats]

:gp: Even if we beat Sunderland in all honesty would we have really gone on to win the cup, probs not.

Well done mistic smeg

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Well done mistic smeg

Why thank you.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

never thought i would live to see the day when I'd want to see the back of Wenger

sadly, it has become abundantly clear that the Professor has lost the plot.....his frugal ways have led to his once illustrious managerial career being perforated

sad, real fuqqing sad :crying:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think the frugality thing is a total myth, the man is more than prepared to dole out ridiculous wages to undeserving players financially burdening the club and making it impossible to get rid of these players when invariably don't make the grade, so what he doesn't spend in the transfer market he more than makes up for in this regard.
The only reason he doesn't spend big on transfers is two fold, one he has spent big money on players and usually they turn out to be flops and secondly it's hubris he'd rather buy some player that no-one has heard of and if they flop than no prob bob but if they excel it makes him look like a genius.

Problem is every man and his dog has grown wise to this and pretty much all the big clubs recruit youngsters from smaller clubs or each others academies.





never thought i would live to see the day when I'd want to see the back of Wenger

sadly, it has become abundantly clear that the Professor has lost the plot.....his frugal ways have led to his once illustrious managerial career being perforated

sad, real fuqqing sad :crying:

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'm at a loss how this can be turned around in anything less than five years. Our wage bill is indefensible and it is the sole reason why this Club will be dragged down into the mire when we fail to qualify for the Champions League. A Club spending what we do on player contracts should at the very least have a spine populated by proven superstars supported by a cast of accomplished and up and coming players. Three or four players aside, we have a dishevelled rump of players accustomed to failure on the pitch and unimaginable reward for dubious talent and mental strength off it. Our players are in football terms, the richly rewarded banking failures of the business world.

There has been chronic mismanagement on and off the pitch and this situation has been festering and building for at least seven years gradually taking us from the pinnacle to the rump of a team we have now. Anyone thinking there is a quick fix for a situation that has been building for years is deluding themselves. We have shit players on lucrative and lengthy contracts that no one else will take on, and we are still offering them. Even if there is a complete change in approach from the Board and a new Manager, it will take years to clear up this mess.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I'm at a loss how this can be turned around in anything less than five years. Our wage bill is indefensible and it is the sole reason why this Club will be dragged down into the mire when we fail to qualify for the Champions League. A Club spending what we do on player contracts should at the very least have a spine populated by proven superstars supported by a cast of accomplished and up and coming players. Three or four players aside, we have a dishevelled rump of players accustomed to failure on the pitch and unimaginable reward for dubious talent and mental strength off it. Our players are in football terms, the richly rewarded banking failures of the business world.

There has been chronic mismanagement on and off the pitch and this situation has been festering and building for at least seven years gradually taking us from the pinnacle to the rump of a team we have now. Anyone thinking there is a quick fix for a situation that has been building for years is deluding themselves. We have shit players on lucrative and lengthy contracts that no one else will take on, and we are still offering them.Even if there is a complete change in approach from the Board and a new Manager, it will take years to clear up this mess.

:gp:

1st step to recovery is getting in that top 4 is something we need and take it from there. And until the Stan/Usmanov is sorted out nothing will change.

[Power n Glory]

We've been lead down a dead end by Wenger. It's a total piss take that we've lost star players because we refuse to offer them a better pay package yet we're happy to dole out extensions to useless fringe players. That wage bill is bloody excessive ane Wenger has been taking the absolute piss.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I honestly think finishing 4th would only serve to perpetuate the status quo, i think finishing outside the top four is the shock disappointment the club needs to stir itself out of it's comatose state, the very idea that we would spend lots of money on players in the summer is a pipe dream. But i think a complete collapse would cause Wenger enough disappointment that he would leave and the long term repair could begin, hopefully starting with Kroenke bringing in his own people.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I honestly think finishing 4th would only serve to perpetuate the status quo, i think finishing outside the top four is the shock disappointment the club needs to stir itself out of it's comatose state, the very idea that we would spend lots of money on players in the summer is a pipe dream. But i think a complete collapse would cause Wenger enough disappointment that he would leave and the long term repair could begin, hopefully starting with Kroenke bringing in his own people.

Nope the club needs top 4 to get that moeny, Finidhing outside will do nothing won't shock anybody at the club, as Ivan and Phw say We don't need too. so i can't see much changing if we finish 4th except we will loose money.

[Power n Glory]

It looks that way. He's had too many chances and has really taken everyone for a ride with this youth project. Finishing out of the top four would result in the pressure being applied because we can't survive too long without the Champs League money.

He's build this club up to what it is but I hope he hasn't built it on sand. The next coach will have a hell of a job on his hands and Wenger always said he wanted to leave us in good shape for the future but this looks like a disaster waiting to happen.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It looks that way. He's had too many chances and has really taken everyone for a ride with this youth project. Finishing out of the top four would result in the pressure being applied because we can't survive too long without the Champs League money.

He's build this club up to what it is but I hope he hasn't built it on sand. The next coach will have a hell of a job on his hands and Wenger always said he wanted to leave us in good shape for the future but this looks like a disaster waiting to happen.

Im sure he did and at the time meant it, but when your so stubborn it can take over yor brain to the point you believe you own hype. Its a question of him doing the right thing for the club at last and resigning(get a bit of respect for himself back)

Sort out the problems in the board room, bring in klopp etc and see how best to take the club forward.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

With Klopp we'd have to move quickly i.e before euro 2012 as I think Joachim Low will leave Germany after the tournament to become Real Madrid coach and that Klopp would become favorite to succeed him.

[Cripps_orig]

So Klopp to Germany, Low to Real.....why dont we take Reals manager then whos better than those 2?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Because he's a vulpine little scumbag who will trample over anyone and anything to get what he wants, his CV may be seductive but he'd stab us in the back as soon as it suited him.



So Klopp to Germany, Low to Real.....why dont we take Reals manager then whos better than those 2?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

With Klopp we'd have to move quickly i.e before euro 2012 as I think Joachim Low will leave Germany after the tournament to become Real Madrid coach and that Klopp would become favorite to succeed him.

I like Low tbh, would not have minded him here tbh. if not Klopp then go for AVB or Louis van Gaal or Ancelotti if PSG get rid.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We've been lead down a dead end by Wenger. It's a total piss take that we've lost star players because we refuse to offer them a better pay package yet we're happy to dole out extensions to useless fringe players. That wage bill is bloody excessive ane Wenger has been taking the absolute piss.

As much as Wenger is to blame, the board are not blameless, If the big guns were more interested about what goes on, on the pitch rather then who has the most shared we'd be better too. They have known about our wages and agreed to it and found it accetpable which was wrong.

The sooner they go with Wenger the better, imo they are one in the same and both need to go for the club to succeed.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My only concern with Jogi Low is that he has had no real experience managing at club level, i think other that i'd be happy with him as he is an excellent motivator and his Germany side play good attacking football. Not too keen on the whole picking his nose and eating it thing either


I like Low tbh, would not have minded him here tbh. if not Klopp then go for AVB or Louis van Gaal or Ancelotti if PSG get rid.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Because he's a vulpine little scumbag who will trample over anyone and anything to get what he wants, his CV may be seductive but he'd stab us in the back as soon as it suited him.

:gp:

[Özim]

Not really bothered about Low, don't think he's that good and looking at his career record it's nothing special, plus he picks his nose on camera.

Klopp has done well at Dortmund but I'd like us to win the CL and sadly Dortmund were a sorry sight in the CL this season.

Mourinho would be great, if he won us the CL and league I wouldn't care if he trampled on anyone to get to it tbh.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Right, so it does not matter what you do or how you do it, as long as you 'win'?

[Özim]

Right, so it does not matter what you do or how you do it, as long as you 'win'?
If Mourinho came in and won us the CL and league I couldn't give a toss how he did it no, Wenger's been as bad as any manager in recent times and you guys have been happy to put with him, not sure what the difference is.

Mourinho gives his all to every club he manages. Chelsea and Inter fans love the guy, says all it needs to for me.

[Power n Glory]

As much as Wenger is to blame, the board are not blameless, If the big guns were more interested about what goes on, on the pitch rather then who has the most shared we'd be better too. They have known about our wages and agreed to it and found it accetpable which was wrong.

The sooner they go with Wenger the better, imo they are one in the same and both need to go for the club to succeed.

My question is, how can a pen pusher with zero experience in management tell Wenger what a player like Bendtner or Denilson is worth in wages? Contracts were doled out based on potential and Wenger kept telling everyone that of we kept these players around long enough, they'd turn into world class players. Who could really question him on that at the time? They're trusting his judgement and past record because they're not experts on youth development.

I've had debates on here before about who makes these sort of decisions and it all has to be based on Wenger's word. We heard Wenger's comments about giving RVP a new contract and how it's risky giving a 28 year old a huge contract when he's only got a couple more years left at his peak. That's an example of how he justifies the wages. That's the level of thinking.

If anyone questions him on the matter, I'd guess they get the typical response from Wenger as the Graham and Petit found out the other day. 'I have people with zero experience in the CL or in management questioning my supreme judgement....' or something along like that. :lol: He gets tetchy and arrogant. The results will speak volumes and if we finish outside of the top four they can take him to town. It's a sit back and watch him hang situation now. It would be great if we had folks on the Board that really knew the game, but these guys are old and at retirement age.

But I wish there was someone there that could really question him about this shit.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Win us the CL the same way he didn't with Chelsea


Not really bothered about Low, don't think he's that good and looking at his career record it's nothing special, plus he picks his nose on camera.

Klopp has done well at Dortmund but I'd like us to win the CL and sadly Dortmund were a sorry sight in the CL this season.

Mourinho would be great, if he won us the CL and league I wouldn't care if he trampled on anyone to get to it tbh.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Not really bothered about Low, don't think he's that good and looking at his career record it's nothing special, plus he picks his nose on camera.

Klopp has done well at Dortmund but I'd like us to win the CL and sadly Dortmund were a sorry sight in the CL this season.

Mourinho would be great, if he won us the CL and league I wouldn't care if he trampled on anyone to get to it tbh.

Problem is he'd bottle it when we play Barca as usual then start moaning about how he was robbed. You really think if he came him the board would give him the 200 mill he'd want to spend no chance.

[Özim]

Win us the CL the same way he didn't with Chelsea
Or even Porto and Inter

[Olivier's xmas twist]

My question is, how can a pen pusher with zero experience in management tell Wenger what a player like Bendtner or Denilson is worth in wages? Contracts were doled out based on potential and Wenger kept telling everyone that of we kept these players around long enough, they'd turn into world class players. Who could really question him on that at the time? They're trusting his judgement and past record because they're not experts on youth development.

I've had debates on here before about who makes these sort of decisions and it all has to be based on Wenger's word. We heard Wenger's comments about giving RVP a new contract and how it's risky giving a 28 year old a huge contract when he's only got a couple more years left at his peak. That's an example of how he justifies the wages. That's the level of thinking.

If anyone questions him on the matter, I'd guess they get the typical response from Wenger as the Graham and Petit found out the other day. 'I have people with zero experience in the CL or in management questioning my supreme judgement....' or something along like that. :lol: He gets tetchy and arrogant. The results will speak volumes and if we finish outside of the top four they can take him to town. It's a sit back and watch him hang situation now. It would be great if we had folks on the Board that really knew the game, but these guys are old and at retirement age.

But I wish there was someone there that could really question him about this shit.

Thats what the should have done the last few years only problem was they were worried about themselves to care about what wenger does.

Not saying your wrong Png and Wenger has no power, but why has no one gone to him when they see its getting too much and have a word in his ear etc.

He should be told to focus on the team and that someone else will be dealing with other duites and if he don't like it he can resign simple as.

[Özim]

Problem is he'd bottle it when we play Barca as usual then start moaning about how he was robbed. You really think if he came him the board would give him the 200 mill he'd want to spend no chance.
He doesn't need 200 million, he didn't have anywhere near that at Inter and yet built a team that won everything and disposed of Barca on the way (in the 1st leg they caned them).

He'd get rid of the dross, bring in quality and we'd seem to good tactics and substitutions for a change.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If Mourinho came in and won us the CL and league I couldn't give a toss how he did it no, Wenger's been as bad as any manager in recent times and you guys have been happy to put with him, not sure what the difference is.

Mourinho gives his all to every club he manages. Chelsea and Inter fans love the guy, says all it needs to for me.

You assume that will happen there is no givenit would ever happen one thing for sure is he won't be coming to us thank feck.

[Power n Glory]

If Mourinho came in and won us the CL and league I couldn't give a toss how he did it no, Wenger's been as bad as any manager in recent times and you guys have been happy to put with him, not sure what the difference is.

Mourinho gives his all to every club he manages. Chelsea and Inter fans love the guy, says all it needs to for me.

If Mourinho plays that boring football and the attendance drops to a record lows at the Emirates, we're still in trouble. They have to bare that in mind as well.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He doesn't need 200 million, he didn't have anywhere near that at Inter and yet built a team that won everything and disposed of Barca on the way (in the 1st leg they caned them).

He'd get rid of the dross, bring in quality and we'd seem to good tactics and substitutions for a change.

he will you think quality is cheap these days guess again. and when i say 200 mill i include wages.

[Özim]

You assume that will happen there is no givenit would ever happen one thing for sure is he won't be coming to us thank feck.
One things for sure, we'd be hard to beat would play as a team and we'd be a much better outfit and would have a good chance of success (better than no chance at all as it stands now). That would be good enough for me.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If Mourinho plays that boring football and the attendance drops to a record lows at the Emirates, we're still in trouble. They have to bare that in mind as well.

Especially a man whom by his own admission said he would tell his sides to shut up shop if they were 2nil up irregardless of being home or away and who they were playing,

[Özim]

If Mourinho plays that boring football and the attendance drops to a record lows at the Emirates, we're still in trouble. They have to bare that in mind as well.
Real aren't boring and I didn't see attendances at Chelsea drop, fact is if you play as a team fans will come and watch.....Wengerball is sh*t and they still turn up in their hoards.

[Özim]

he will you think quality is cheap these days guess again. and when i say 200 mill i include wages.
Again I point to the team at Inter, he didn't spend much and spent money he got from selling players......we could sell some of our squad and replace them with better players for sure...in addition we have money to spend.

[Xhaka Can’t]

If Mourinho came in and won us the CL and league I couldn't give a toss how he did it no, Wenger's been as bad as any manager in recent times and you guys have been happy to put with him, not sure what the difference is.

Mourinho gives his all to every club he manages. Chelsea and Inter fans love the guy, says all it needs to for me.

I have not been happy to put up with him, so get your facts right.

But I have zero respect or stomach for Mourinho. I hate just about everything the guy stands for and there is winning and 'winning'. And when it comes to judging character, I'd steer clear of taking advice off a Chelsea fan if I were you.

[Özim]

Especially a man whom by his own admission said he would tell his sides to shut up shop if they were 2nil up irregardless of being home or away and who they were playing,
Chelsea did pretty well, I believe they scored a fair amount too, likewise with Inter and now Real.

His teams score goals, they always have, fact is they play as a team and are very efficient.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Real aren't boring and I didn't see attendances at Chelsea drop, fact is if you play as a team fans will come and watch.....Wengerball is sh*t and they still turn up in their hoards.

He only has his side play more expansive football at Real cos he has no choice but to do otherwise, a club like us he'd employ catenaccio first tactics and tell the fans to keep their mouths shut.

[GP]

I have not been happy to put up with him, so get your facts right.

But I have zero respect or stomach for Mourinho. I hate just about everything the guy stands for and there is winning and 'winning'. And when it comes to judging character, I'd steer clear of taking advice off a Chelsea fan if I were you.

Mourinho can go fuck himself with a lepper.

[Özim]

I have not been happy to put up with him, so get your facts right.

But I have zero respect or stomach for Mourinho. I hate just about everything the guy stands for and there is winning and 'winning'. And when it comes to judging character, I'd steer clear of taking advice off a Chelsea fan if I were you.
Until fairly recently you have, Wenger has been sh*t for years to be honest and you could see this disaster coming from a mile away.

That's up to you, personally don't have a problem with the guy, he's charismatic, entertaining and his teams are successful..he does do some questionnable things but not a lot of successful managers don't.

[Özim]

He only has his side play more expansive football at Real cos he has no choice but to do otherwise, a club like us he'd employ catenaccio first tactics and tell the fans to keep their mouths shut.
That's just speculation to be fair, besides as I've said before Wengerball has been boring and pretty predictable for a long time....could it be any worse?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Again I point to the team at Inter, he didn't spend much and spent money he got from selling players......we could sell some of our squad and replace them with better players for sure...in addition we have money to spend.

even so top players cost 30-40 mill so eve if we got rid off the dross we still need about 5/6 which would be 200-300 on transfers and then if they wanted top wages that could be another 100 mill even more. Only way it would workif we had a suga daddy or Stan sold to the russain or Stan pumped money in. don't seem like it will happen anytime soon.

He never needed to spend big at Inteer the bulk of the team was there and at chavs here we need a big rebuild so lots coming in is a must not just 2 or 3.

[Özim]

even so top players cost 30-40 mill so eve if we got rid off the dross we still need about 5/6 which would be 200-300 on transfers and then if they wanted top wages that could be another 100 mill even more. Only way it would workif we had a suga daddy or Stan sold to the russain or Stan pumped money in. don't seem like it will happen anytime soon.

He never needed to spend big at Inteer the bulk of the team was there and at chavs here we need a big rebuild so lots coming in is a must not just 2 or 3.
Van der Vaart didn't cost that, Kompany didn't cost that, Parker didn't cost that....saying they cost 40 million is just not true...some will but others are available if you look closely enough.

The problem we've had is that our manager only spends on kids and nobodies, he wastes money like nobodies business...if he'd been wise he could have bought some real quality rather than wasting it on unknowns and journeymen.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That's just speculation to be fair, besides as I've said before Wengerball has been boring and pretty predictable for a long time....could it be any worse?

Yep because Jose ball is much more enetertainig i mean chelsea fans will tell you that.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's just speculation to be fair, besides as I've said before Wengerball has been boring and pretty predictable for a long time....could it be any worse?

Judging by Inter's performances in the 2010 champions league semi final and the final then yes it could

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Van der Vaart didn't cost that, Kompany didn't cost that, Parker didn't cost that....saying they cost 40 million is just not true...some will but others are available if you look closely enough.

Thats then this is now prices have gone up. VDV wa only cheap because Real wanted to flogg him not because it was his natural price.

Kompany has never been a £40 mill player so not sure why you'dbring him up.

[Dennis Bendtner]

You'd need to give Maureen money to buy a new midfield if we wanted to be particularly interesting. Gervinho's no Ronaldo, at the end of the day. Sexy as he is. Counterattacks can be very good to watch i.e. his Real team, but you'd need the right players who tend to cost a fair whack.

[Özim]

Yep because Jose ball is much more enetertainig i mean chelsea fans will tell you that.
Honestly, I find it more entertaining....ever since Wenger switched from counter attacking to the boring slow paced overpassing style it's been hard to stay awake, add to that the fact the end result is as predictable as it gets and you do really end up with a very boring formula.

[Özim]

Judging by Inter's performances in the 2010 champions league semi final and the final then yes it could
I watched that, thought they were very exciting and good to watch in the 1st leg, they handed Barca their arse on a plate to be honest.

[Özim]

Thats then this is now prices have gone up. VDV wa only cheap because Real wanted to flogg him not because it was his natural price.

Kompany has never been a £40 mill player so not sure why you'dbring him up.
:lol: Come off it

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Hiring Mourinho as a manager is like paying someone to have sex with your wife whilst you masturbate into a dishrag, the objective is acheived but it hardly seems worth it.

[Özim]

You'd need to give Maureen money to buy a new midfield if we wanted to be particularly interesting. Gervinho's no Ronaldo, at the end of the day. Sexy as he is. Counterattacks can be very good to watch i.e. his Real team, but you'd need the right players who tend to cost a fair whack.
He'd have some money, plus if we got rid of the dross we should have a fair bit more. What he does bring even without signings is tactics and an ability to get players working well together, he knows how to build a team and the difference will be almost instantly visible.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Until fairly recently you have, Wenger has been sh*t for years to be honest and you could see this disaster coming from a mile away.

That's up to you, personally don't have a problem with the guy, he's charismatic, entertaining and his teams are successful..he does do some questionnable things but not a lot of successful managers don't.

It has been in excess of two years!

Mourinho is an utter slimeball. He is a sickening manifestation of how fucked up things have become that people like yourself no longer really care about genuine competition and just want to win at all costs never contemplating the hollowness of the 'victory' that results.

[Özim]

Hiring Mourinho as a manager is like paying someone to have sex with your wife whilst you masturbate into a dishrag, the objective is acheived but it hardly seems worth it.
Having Wenger as manager is like watching your wife go off with someone older richer than you who actually has nothing else going for them.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Honestly, I find it more entertaining....ever since Wenger switched from counter attacking to the boring slow paced overpassing style it's been hard to stay awake, add to that the fact the end result is as predictable as it gets and you do really end up with a very boring formula.

Not saying wengerball in interesting never was a fan off the pass pass like you like the counter stuff. Just don't think Jose chavs stuff was all that great when it could have been so much better and enjoyable he had the team for it.

Problem with wenger ball it could be effective the old man was delduded to think it could work would out top players that was the problem had he got them i guarentee he'd have got results at the end off it.

[Özim]

It has been in excess of two years!

Mourinho is an utter slimeball. He is a sickening manifestation of how fucked up things have become that people like yourself no longer really care about genuine competition and just want to win at all costs never contemplating the hollowness of the 'victory' that results.
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it of course, I disagree. People go way over the top about him IMO, I always found him entertaining at Chelsea...found it funny when he commented about the youth policy and how he'd love to be able to bring through kids without having to win anything like Wenger :lol:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:lol: Come off it

So you don't thin VDV would have ever cost more then 8 mill if real wanted to keep him, or Kompany would have been sold for 40 mill at HSV. Maybe now he is but then no way.

[Dennis Bendtner]

He'd have some money, plus if we got rid of the dross we should have a fair bit more. What he does bring even without signings is tactics and an ability to get players working well together, he knows how to build a team and the difference will be almost instantly visible.

Well I agree. I am just referring to those with fair concerns about dull football. The man had Eto'o playing right wing-back in the Champions League final, to be fair. But obviously with the Di Marias and Ronaldos of this world, he's able to do more and create an interesting counterattacking team. Some money would have to be a fair bit.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Just because I don't want that vermin Mourinho why would you assume that I give tacit agreement to Wenger either.


Having Wenger as manager is like watching your wife go off with someone older richer than you who actually has nothing else going for them.

[Özim]

Not saying wengerball in interesting never was a fan off the pass pass like you like the counter stuff. Just don't think Jose chavs stuff was all that great when it could have been so much better and enjoyable he had the team for it.

Problem with wenger ball it could be effective the old man was delduded to think it could work would out top players that was the problem had he got them i guarentee he'd have got results at the end off it.
I've never liked the post 2005 football to be honest, it just totally bores me...he wanted to build a team like Barca with vastly inferior players....it works for Barca because let's face it they have great players who not only pass well but no when to pass and also where their teammates are instinctively.

Seeing a organised team give 100% has it's merits IMO.

[Xhaka Can’t]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it of course, I disagree. People go way over the top about him IMO, I always found him entertaining at Chelsea...found it funny when he commented about the youth policy and how he'd love to be able to bring through kids without having to win anything like Wenger :lol:

If he'd have loved it, he could have brought kids through, but it is easier to go nuts in the transfer market.

[Özim]

So you don't thin VDV would have ever cost more then 8 mill if real wanted to keep him, or Kompany would have been sold for 40 mill at HSV. Maybe now he is but then no way.
Those were some examples, there's always players around you can get at a decent price if you look hard enough, problem has been that we're never in for them....we either don't bid because Chelsea might outbid us or we don't bid because we want to spend our money on kids or nobodies. If you don't try you don't get.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Just because I don't want that vermin Mourinho why would you assume that I give tacit agreement to Wenger either.

Because he cannot argue a point. So he'll waffle on about points you don't make or misrepresent those you do.

[Özim]

Well I agree. I am just referring to those with fair concerns about dull football. The man had Eto'o playing right wing-back in the Champions League final, to be fair. But obviously with the Di Marias and Ronaldos of this world, he's able to do more and create an interesting counterattacking team. Some money would have to be a fair bit.
He did sign some excellent players for Inter and if you watched them against Barca in the 1st leg of the CL they were superb (not seen many teams give Barca such a tonking).

Generally his tactical decision are pretty good, but every manager makes mistakes.

[Özim]

Just because I don't want that vermin Mourinho why would you assume that I give tacit agreement to Wenger either.
Fair point, you don't like him and I get that...I just don't see him as the evil force that some of you guys see him as......winners are rarely liked.

[Özim]

If he'd have loved it, he could have brought kids through, but it is easier to go nuts in the transfer market.
He didn't have the choice, failure wasn't an option for him....same can't be said for Wenger, he's been a failure a long long time now and he still has a job paying 6 million a year.....impressive really can't think of many professions where you'd last that long.

[Özim]

Because he cannot argue a point. So he'll waffle on about points you don't make or misrepresent those you do.
You use to be funny, now you're just bitter.

We disagree about Mourinho, you hate him I don't mind him.

I do dislike Wenger though.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Mourinho is smart enough to adapt the football to the players he has I'd say. And I seriously doubt he'd go to Arsenal thinking he'd have the same amount of money to spend as he has had at other clubs.

[Özim]

Mourinho is smart enough to adapt the football to the players he has I'd say. And I seriously doubt he'd go to Arsenal thinking he'd have the same amount of money to spend as he has had at other clubs.
I don't think we have any chance of getting him, nor do I think we'll try as the people upstairs want a yes man unfortunately (and he certainly isn't that) but I agree with you he does get the best out of what he's got and is very adaptable.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You use to be funny, now you're just bitter.

We disagree about Mourinho, you hate him I don't mind him.

I do dislike Wenger though.

You've mellowed lol you hated him the other day lol

[Özim]

You've mellowed lol you hated him the other day lol
Hate is a strong word, I don't hate him but what he's doing to this club is borderline criminal......he's destroying all the good work he had done....it's awful to watch it happen and keep happening.

[Fats]

Its amazing you know, people always know what they dont want yet never come up with a viable solution.

AW's time is over!!!

We will never see an invincible time again no matter who we have in charge.

We have gone backwards with the same available funds as other managers because of our currant managers principles.

This is our club not his. I for one have not been sold by his principles and downright lie's for a long time.

It is without doubt a time to change, to move forward.

This manager will only take stock and make sure the "business" is looking good on the balance sheet.

Thing is we as a club are at a tipping point. We go out of the CL reconing at the end of the season it may take a few years to get back. Im not sure I feel safe handing any amount of money to a manager that has wasted it in netto's for the last 3-4 seasons.

We simply have to change now or it could put us back further.

Im not saying we will not be able to attract players to ensure we have a better stab at getting CL qualification again. After all Spurs have done that, and it speaks volumes.Who would have thought Harry(second hand car salesman)Redknapp could build a far better squad that play better football than us and in the process outwit a seemingly intelligent man who is reveered worldwide.

Has it all been talk for the last few seasons without real thought? Who knows, only Wenger himself. Im not having people make so many excuses for him. If he is brilliant prove it, prove it in a time where you could have a massive impact and ensure your legacy is put back in its place. Lets not forget his misgivings and terrible terrible decisions though. Put it right Wenger I challenge you.

Thing is as much as winning the things he did in the past have given him the right to take time to rebuild a side and we have had patience with him. Its now been too long and that time of patience and poor decisions and terrible purchases needs to be questioned more so now than ever because those decions have cost the club and we are on decline.

As I said we are at a tipping point. Things have gone backwards because of incompetance. These people running our club including Wenger should be accountable but alas they have bought into business not glory of which this club was built on.

Mr Chapman Im sorry on behalf of these fools. Im sure you turn in your grave.

[Marc Overmars]

You'd need to give Maureen money to buy a new midfield if we wanted to be particularly interesting. Gervinho's no Ronaldo, at the end of the day. Sexy as he is. Counterattacks can be very good to watch i.e. his Real team, but you'd need the right players who tend to cost a fair whack.

He'd need a lot of cash here because hardly any of our players are what you'd typically call Mourinho players. He'd flog Arteta and Ramsey in an instant and buy 2 solid all action centre mids and build from there. Gervais, Arshavin and Walnut will be told to sort their lives out or they'll be gone as well.

The reason I wouldn't mind him is because he is extremely ruthless, basically if you're not with him, you're against him. Some of our players are in need of some tough love and he'd certainly shake things up. He'd make us hard to beat and that is something Wenger has failed miserably at.

Of course the off putting thing is that he's a massive **** with an ego guranteed to land the club in hot water. I'm not even sure how long he'd stay as well. I fully expect him to win the league with Madrid this year, then do his attention seeking ritual of throwing his medal into the crowd so everyone starts reading into it and talking about his next move.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Hate is a strong word, I don't hate him but what he's doing to this club is borderline criminal......he's destroying all the good work he had done....it's awful to watch it happen and keep happening.

That has to be the nicedt thing you have said about him in the last year lol i do agree though. this is why i say he should resign, then apologise to the fans (get some respect back from the fans). the board need go with him and move on from there. Like you say time to show ambiton from top to bottom even if we don't sign the best in the world at lest get quality with ambiton amd stong mentality. even if we only win the cc next season it could be a slow start in the right direction to go in.

Like GB said new manager or not it could take a while to get back to where we were.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Its amazing you know, people always know what they dont want yet never come up with a viable solution.

AW's time is over!!!

We will never see an invincible time again no matter who we have in charge.

We have gone backwards with the same available funds as other managers because of our currant managers principles.

This is our club not his. I for one have not been sold by his principles and downright lie's for a long time.

It is without doubt a time to change, to move forward.

This manager will only take stock and make sure the "business" is looking good on the balance sheet.

Thing is we as a club are at a tipping point. We go out of the CL reconing at the end of the season it may take a few years to get back. Im not sure I feel safe handing any amount of money to a manager that has wasted it in netto's for the last 3-4 seasons.

We simply have to change now or it could put us back further.

Im not saying we will not be able to attract players to ensure we have a better stab at getting CL qualification again. After all Spurs have done that, and it speaks volumes.Who would have thought Harry(second hand car salesman)Redknapp could build a far better squad that play better football than us and in the process outwit a seemingly intelligent man who is reveered worldwide.

Has it all been talk for the last few seasons without real thought? Who knows, only Wenger himself. Im not having people make so many excuses for him. If he is brilliant prove it, prove it in a time where you could have a massive impact and ensure your legacy is put back in its place. Lets not forget his misgivings and terrible terrible decisions though. Put it right Wenger I challenge you.

Thing is as much as winning the things he did in the past have given him the right to take time to rebuild a side and we have had patience with him. Its now been too long and that time of patience and poor decisions and terrible purchases needs to be questioned more so now than ever because those decions have cost the club and we are on decline.

As I said we are at a tipping point. Things have gone backwards because of incompetance. These people running our club including Wenger should be accountable but alas they have bought into business not glory of which this club was built on.

Mr Chapman Im sorry on behalf of these fools. Im sure you turn in your grave.

No one said it was not.

[Dennis Bendtner]

No one said it was not.

:blink:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I agree but it's a two-fold problem that is as much the board's responsibility as his. I also think as much as Wenger should go....employing a mercenary like Mourinho would undermine everything this club is about.......a man who causes a referee to retire from the game out of fear of death threats and refuses to even condemn the fans who made such threats is an enemy of the game, no-one says that you have to be a saint but there has to be a line somewhere, at some fundamental level you have to show other people some respect......you can't curtail everything just to suit the furtherance of your own ambition.
I strongly believe Mourinho is an anathema to everything football should represent, and I think in the unlikely event this club became interest in his dubious services it would have finally sold it's soul.


Hate is a strong word, I don't hate him but what he's doing to this club is borderline criminal......he's destroying all the good work he had done....it's awful to watch it happen and keep happening.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Mourinho is smart enough to adapt the football to the players he has I'd say. And I seriously doubt he'd go to Arsenal thinking he'd have the same amount of money to spend as he has had at other clubs.

He is. I was talking purely in the context of interesting football. He is certainly good enough to adapt to his players.

[Fats]

The best thing I have heard all day

Charlie the Gooner has now been successfully added to your ignore list. You will now be returned to where you were.

Whats that an adult conversation?:pal:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

I've never liked the post 2005 football to be honest, it just totally bores me...he wanted to build a team like Barca with vastly inferior players....it works for Barca because let's face it they have great players who not only pass well but no when to pass and also where their teammates are instinctively.

Seeing a organised team give 100% has it's merits IMO.

also their strength.

people always underestimate their strength and think they can kick them off the park.

they may be short but unlike our players are stocky and hard. alves, iniesta, xavi, pique, valdes all love a scrap.

we on the other hand have a bunch of absolute pussies. no strength or aggression so when our passing doesnt work (which is all the time) we get kicked off the park.

wengers going for the wrong type of player.

[Dennis Bendtner]

He'd need a lot of cash here because hardly any of our players are what you'd typically call Mourinho players. He'd flog Arteta and Ramsey in an instant and buy 2 solid all action centre mids and build from there. Gervais, Arshavin and Walnut will be told to sort their lives out or they'll be gone as well.

The reason I wouldn't mind him is because he is extremely ruthless, basically if you're not with him, you're against him. Some of our players are in need of some tough love and he'd certainly shake things up. He'd make us hard to beat and that is something Wenger has failed miserably at.

Of course the off putting thing is that he's a massive **** with an ego guranteed to land the club in hot water. I'm not even sure how long he'd stay as well. I fully expect him to win the league with Madrid this year, then do his attention seeking ritual of throwing his medal into the crowd so everyone starts reading into it and talking about his next move.

That's the main thing to applaud about his work. He is a twonk, but his ability to get his players onside in most circumstances is practically unmatched. Along the lines of what Mac says, he could probably formulate something competitive with the existing players. That's his strength. Probably effective but not very interesting, unless he got substantial funds.

[Xhaka Can’t]

You use to be funny, now you're just bitter.

We disagree about Mourinho, you hate him I don't mind him.

I do dislike Wenger though.

The point and the one that preceded it were nothing to do with Wenger. Discuss/argue the points made, don't put things into people's posts that are not there.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Mr Chapman Im sorry on behalf of these fools. Im sure you turn in your grave.

:haha:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:blink:

I was talking about tonight, no one has said in this thread tonight they want wenger to stay or his time is not over.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The best thing I have heard all day

Charlie the Gooner has now been successfully added to your ignore list. You will now be returned to where you were.Whats that an adult conversation?:pal:

Not sure where you got that from but im sure i'll live. If the best thing you have heard is someone ignoring me someone you don't know then i pitty you fella i really do.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Not sure where you got that from but im sure i'll live. If the best thing you have heard is someone ignoring me someone you don't know then i pitty you fella i really do.

:whistle:

[Marc Overmars]

Charlie's mental month resumes. :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Charlie's mental month resumes. :bow:

So posters can't stand up for themselves?

[Marc Overmars]

So posters can't stand up for themselves?

Don't be getting all srs now, Charls. Only joshing the rogan.

[Fats]

So posters can't stand up for themselves?

All power to you son.

Typing through a straight jacket is quite an acheivement

[Xhaka Can’t]

All power to you son.

Typing through a straight jacket is quite an acheivement

Thank fuck Herbert Chapman isn't around to see this.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Thank fuck Herbert Chapman isn't around to see this.

Yes I am......

[Fats]

Thank fuck Herbert Chapman isn't around to see this.

He'd do is fuckin kippers

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yes I am......

:lol: Should have stayed with Town tbh.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Should have stayed with Town tbh.

ungrateful wretch

[Xhaka Can’t]

ungrateful wretch

:upset:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

All power to you son.

Typing through a straight jacket is quite an acheivement

Thats OK being Ach's "cousin" is bad enough

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Don't be getting all srs now, Charls. Only joshing the rogan.

Fair play fella.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

He is. I was talking purely in the context of interesting football. He is certainly good enough to adapt to his players.

I find all football interesting tbf. Well when I say interesting, I mean tolerable. I managed to find a way to watch Blackburn vs Sunderland last season.

[Cripps_orig]

Yep because Jose ball is much more enetertainig i mean chelsea fans will tell you that.Why harp on about how he played at Chelsea? He won at Chelsea. And he showed good defensive tactical nous.

As the years have gone by, hes changed his game and Real play the best football around

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Why harp on about how he played at Chelsea? He won at Chelsea. And he showed good defensive tactical nous.As the years have gone by, hes changed his game and Real play the best football around

I was on about entertinment value, have chav friends who used to tell me how boring the games where and wished it was more entertaining. Never said he was not a winner at the chavs or slated that.

[Cripps_orig]

I was on about entertinment value, have chav friends who used to tell me how boring the games where and wished it was more entertaining. Never said he was not a winner at the chavs or slated that.And i dont disagree, They were fucking dull but they won and everyone on here would take that here in a second.

Its been 5 years since he left there though and hes adapted his game. Real play the best football around. Id rather look at that then what he did 5 years ago

[Ollie the Optimist]

i dont think he hsould, i blame the board. if there is the 50 or even 100m to spend as said then let him stay one more summer, sort the board out and get them out. give wenger one more season, telling him that only a trophy will do or he is out. get rid of the shit, get quality in. change pat rice for bould or even Dennis. i think he can do it, only if there is guarenteed money and the board fuck off.

[Özim]

It's always one more season with Wenger, he's been getting one more season for a while now, sadly the guy can't cut it at the top anymore now...that's been proven, his time has past and he needs to move on.

We need some fresh blood, some new ideas, someone who knows what they're doing and is tactically astute....he's become a one trick pony who's trick everyone has seen and knows.

[Xhaka Can’t]

i dont think he hsould, i blame the board. if there is the 50 or even 100m to spend as said then let him stay one more summer, sort the board out and get them out. give wenger one more season, telling him that only a trophy will do or he is out. get rid of the shit, get quality in. change pat rice for bould or even Dennis. i think he can do it, only if there is guarenteed money and the board fuck off.

I know what you said last summer.

[Power n Glory]

It makes no sense to give him all that money for one more round at the poker table. Sentiment has to be thrown aside. We spent £60m on the transfer window and look at the results.

Merts and Santos are broken already.
Park has yet to start a Premier League game.
Arteta and Gervinho have no end product and are pretty average.
Yossi spends most of his time on the bench.
And he's only just started playing the Ox in the second half of the season even though he made an impressive start in the Carling Cup and Champions League months ago.

He can't be trusted with £60m what difference will £100m make? Our injury record is still shocking; his judgment on players and team selection is still off, our defensive record hasn't improved even though we have bought 5 defensive players over the last two seasons....he's had one season too many.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't trust him in the transfer market anymore either. No doubt he has unearthed some rough diamonds ie. Kos, but if someone could whip up a list of his last 15 signings (coz I can't be arsed), those diamonds are few and far between now IMO. Will he go out there and buy us a catalyst player, Hazard, Gotze etc...? I doubt it. More likely to raid a reserve team and get another Eisfeld. That's WUMger at his best.

The problem is that everyone has a scouting network on the same level now, and Arsenal and Arsene Wenger are no longer the same draw.

[Coney]

But what is annoying is that for a couple of million that he is supposedly quibbling about for the odd player's transfer price, we could be out of the CL places with a revenue loss of 30+ million. Looking at the cost vs balance of risk, that is not good money management.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

But what is annoying is that for a couple of million that he is supposedly quibbling about for the odd player's transfer price, we could be out of the CL places with a revenue loss of 30+ million. Looking at the cost vs balance of risk, that is not good money management.

Don't worry PHW says we will be fine even if we miss out, and he don't lie does he.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't trust him in the transfer market anymore either. No doubt he has unearthed some rough diamonds ie. Kos, but if someone could whip up a list of his last 15 signings (coz I can't be arsed), those diamonds are few and far between now IMO. Will he go out there and buy us a catalyst player, Hazard, Gotze etc...? I doubt it. More likely to raid a reserve team and get another Eisfeld. That's WUMger at his best.

The problem is that everyone has a scouting network on the same level now, and Arsenal and Arsene Wenger are no longer the same draw.

He does not have a choice if he wants to still be manager here. Or try to convinve RVP to stay. he knows he has to spend big whether he wants too or not, but he needs to CL to get that money.

[Coney]

Don't worry PHW says we will be fine even if we miss out, and he don't lie does he.

I feel better already. :good:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I feel better already.

He's our chairman has our best interests at heart lol.

[Marc Overmars]

He is obsessed about value for money. Which admirable in a way but frankly in a lot of cases, you get what you pay for IMO. We paid big bucks for Oxo and it looks like we have the best teenager in the world. We paid modest sums for Gervais and Arteta and it looks like we have capable but extremely frustrating players. I mean, there must have been a reason why Gervinho, a key player in Lille's title winning team wasn't courted as much as say Eden Hazard, and now we're finding out why.

Spending big is of course no guarantee for success but the market has changed now. You won't be able to pick up the next Van Persie or Vieira for 3m, because everyone knows who they are meaning you need to pay a premium. Wenger has not bitten the bullet and adapted his style. I remember an interview at the start of the season, a classic WUMger interview, he spoke about being willing to spend 30 or even 40m on a player, but they had to be the right player...or in another words you could say, super quality. :rolleyes:

Who's he trying to kid? Also, the fact we did nothing in January speaks volumes.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He is obsessed about value for money. Which admirable in a way but frankly in a lot of cases, you get what you pay for IMO. We paid big bucks for Oxo and it looks like we have the best teenager in the world. We paid modest sums for Gervais and Arteta and it looks like we have capable but extremely frustrating players. I mean, there must have been a reason why Gervinho, a key player in Lille's title winning team wasn't courted as much as say Eden Hazard, and now we're finding out why.

Spending big is of course no guarantee for success but the market has changed now. You won't be able to pick up the next Van Persie or Vieira for 3m, because everyone knows who they are meaning you need to pay a premium. Wenger has not bitten the bullet and adapted his style. I remember an interview at the start of the season, a classic WUMger interview, he spoke about being willing to spend 30 or even 40m on a player, but they had to be the right player...or in another words you could say, super quality. :rolleyes:

Who's he trying to kid? Also, the fact we did nothing in January speaks volumes.

Depends on the situation in Jan tbh, he knew we never going to win the league or cl so why spend for the fa cup alone, maybe he assumed we had enough to get top 4 or he and the board decided they won't spend till they know the situation in summer. Not alot of quality wanted to move in Jan anyways and i don't who there was much quality who had not played in the cl we could really get.


On Gevinho your being way harsh on him, he was courted as much as hazard, lots of big clubs wanted him, including pool, spuds, city and chavs. And he was excellent at Lille he just is not motivated with this team. I assume he thought he'd be playing with better players. Wasn't he the one who said he'd have not come here if he knew it was going to be like this. he has not settled but neither did drogba in his 1st season give him a chance.


Rest of the post i agree with.

[Fats]

From the AST the other day it said the real cost of not qualifying for the CL is nearer 45million.

On that basis, and seeing as we are a business, would it have not been desperately obvious we needed to buy.

The other point on that is why oh why do we still buy players from Africa. Jan is possibly one of the most testing months of the season, and this has come and bitten us on our arses before.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

From the AST the other day it said the real cost of not qualifying for the CL is nearer 45million.

On that basis, and seeing as we are a business, would it have not been desperately obvious we needed to buy.

The other point on that is why oh why do we still buy players from Africa. Jan is possibly one of the most testing months of the season, and this has come and bitten us on our arses before.

Why should it matter where they are from if they are good enough, the ACON is not every season is it. We only bought 1 i doubt that was the reason we failed this season.

[GP]

Africans :haha:

[Fats]

Its every other season. And surely the better they are the more you'll miss them?

Tell Man City that its not important. They dropped points they otherwise wouldnt with the Afican players in their squad. If that ultimately stops them winning the prem(even if it was on goal difference) then it would matter.

Small margins win games.

[Power n Glory]

Why should it matter where they are from if they are good enough, the ACON is not every season is it. We only bought 1 i doubt that was the reason we failed this season.

We bought the wrong player. Sessegnon was available in January. Was shocked we didn't make a move for him. He's been a gem for Sunderland. Power pace, dribbling skills and has an end product.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Its every other season. And surely the better they are the more you'll miss them?

Tell Man City that its not important. They dropped points they otherwise wouldnt with the Afican players in their squad. If that ultimately stops them winning the prem(even if it was on goal difference) then it would matter.

Small margins win games.

Your right and i agree, but i don't think we failed this season was cause we bought gev. id have loved us to by Ba, sessignon etc. But its not AFC's fault Fifa let this competition take place in Jan needs to be moved once and for all.


We bought the wrong player. Sessegnon was available in January. Was shocked we didn't make a move for him. He's been a gem for Sunderland. Power pace, dribbling skills and has an end product.

I agree Png id Rather we bought him my point was there was more to us failing the season then buying Gev, hand wenger bought class we'd never have missed.

[LDG]

Sessegnon :lol:

I'm sure he'll go on to be a fantaically brilliant average player for years to come.

He's alright. He's not the name you want in your team if you're serious about competing at the top level though. And whilst we're all kinds of shit at the moment, I would hope we'd do better than this dude.

[Power n Glory]

Sessegnon :lol:

I'm sure he'll go on to be a fantaically brilliant average player for years to come.

He's alright. He's not the name you want in your team if you're serious about competing at the top level though. And whilst we're all kinds of shit at the moment, I would hope we'd do better than this dude.

Typical. Have you seen him play and have you seen Gervinho in comparison?

[LDG]

Typical. Have you seen him play and have you seen Gervinho in comparison?

Oh, he's probably better than Gervinho right now. But we can do better than both of those if we actually tried.

Sorry. Not getting at you, and whilst he's a decent player, I just think we can set our sights a bit higher than him....and Gervinho....and walcock...etc

[GP]

Sessegnon :lol:

I'm sure he'll go on to be a fantaically brilliant average player for years to come.

He's alright. He's not the name you want in your team if you're serious about competing at the top level though. And whilst we're all kinds of shit at the moment, I would hope we'd do better than this dude.

Good post.

[Power n Glory]

Oh, he's probably better than Gervinho right now. But we can do better than both of those if we actually tried.

Sorry. Not getting at you, and whilst he's a decent player, I just think we can set our sights a bit higher than him....and Gervinho....and walcock...etc

He's the type of player we would have signed in heartbeat back in 1997. Undervalued but skilful. Watch the guy play. Better than all of of our midfield players.

[LDG]

He's the type of player we would have signed in heartbeat back in 1997. Undervalued but skilful. Watch the guy play. Better than all of of our midfield players.

He's alright, like I say. And I've seen him play a few times.

But he's having a decent (half) season. He's 27 years old, and has on average scored about 5 or 6 a season, with about 5 or 6 assists per season.

You always get these players that have a decent run...but he's not the answer to our problems. We can do better, imo. That's all I'm saying.

If we'd ahve signed him, we'd be saying he wasn't good enough. I really couldn't see him causing Barca, Real etc much harm....and like I say, we're a pile of shit at the moment...but ultimately we want to be challenging the top sides in Europe ( :pray: )....but we wouldn't with this dude as a benchmark.

:shrug:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Typical. Have you seen him play and have you seen Gervinho in comparison?

2 diffrent players Sess is an attacking mid, where as Gev is a winger amd has done fine as one, he has never been one to score goals and was not bought to do so. wenger should have bought a world class striker with him.

Sessingon plays the same role as hazard in the middle. think we would aim higher then him tbh.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He's alright, like I say. And I've seen him play a few times.

But he's having a decent (half) season. He's 27 years old, and has on average scored about 5 or 6 a season, with about 5 or 6 assists per season.

You always get these players that have a decent run...but he's not the answer to our problems. We can do better, imo. That's all I'm saying.

If we'd ahve signed him, we'd be saying he wasn't good enough. I really couldn't see him causing Barca, Real etc much harm....and like I say, we're a pile of shit at the moment...but ultimately we want to be challenging the top sides in Europe ( :pray: )....but we wouldn't with this dude as a benchmark.

:shrug:

Exactly.

[Power n Glory]

He's alright, like I say. And I've seen him play a few times.

But he's having a decent (half) season. He's 27 years old, and has on average scored about 5 or 6 a season, with about 5 or 6 assists per season.

You always get these players that have a decent run...but he's not the answer to our problems. We can do better, imo. That's all I'm saying.

If we'd ahve signed him, we'd be saying he wasn't good enough. I really couldn't see him causing Barca, Real etc much harm....and like I say, we're a pile of shit at the moment...but ultimately we want to be challenging the top sides in Europe ( :pray: )....but we wouldn't with this dude as a benchmark.

:shrug:

This guy made an impression on me a few gas back in the Emirates Cup. He has the ability to dicitate the middle of the park and much bette than what we're getting from Arteta and Ramsey. It's not just the goals and the assist record. His ability on the ball, energy and passing are really impressive and he'd be more dynamic in the middle over Ramsey and Arteta. On the flanks, he'd be more lethal than Gervinho.

[LDG]

Guess we'll never know anyway :lol:

We have jack to come back anyway, so hopefully that'll solve a couple of issues we have at the moment.

I wish Diaby could have some run of fitness and form, because if he could get rid of those niggling injuries and played to his capabilities, he'd be awesome.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

This guy made an impression on me a few gas back in the Emirates Cup. He has the ability to dicitate the middle of the park and much bette than what we're getting from Arteta and Ramsey. It's not just the goals and the assist record. His ability on the ball, energy and passing are really impressive and he'd be more dynamic in the middle over Ramsey and Arteta. On the flanks, he'd be more lethal than Gervinho.

Bit unfair to say till they both have had the same time to adapt to the prem, Gev has been awful In shooting but in what he was bought here to do he has been excellent tbh. Don't think Gev is suited to a 433 anyway. I'm even begining to question why he was even bought tbh.

[Marc Overmars]

Guess we'll never know anyway :lol:

We have jack to come back anyway, so hopefully that'll solve a couple of issues we have at the moment.

I wish Diaby could have some run of fitness and form, because if he could get rid of those niggling injuries and played to his capabilities, he'd be awesome.

We also have Alex Song who can play there.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Guess we'll never know anyway :lol:

We have jack to come back anyway, so hopefully that'll solve a couple of issues we have at the moment.

I wish Diaby could have some run of fitness and form, because if he could get rid of those niggling injuries and played to his capabilities, he'd be awesome.

Problem is his footballing brain is Alwful.

[Power n Glory]

Bit unfair to say till they both have had the same time to adapt to the prem, Gev has been awful In shooting but in what he was bought here to do he has been excellent tbh. Don't think Gev is suited to a 433 anyway. I'm even begining to question why he was even bought tbh.

Diaby has the potential if he stayed fit, but he's not great at passing. If you rate Diaby, you'd like Sessegnon even more. He's a much better passer.

[Syn]

Bit unfair to say till they both have had the same time to adapt to the prem, Gev has been awful In shooting but in what he was bought here to do he has been excellent tbh. Don't think Gev is suited to a 433 anyway.

I'm tired of this formation talk. Am I the only one who thinks that once an attacking player keeps getting the ball in good positions, he should have no excuse for failing to deliver? Lets get some basics straight - attacking players have to score goals. Gervinho should be scoring goals. He isn't and so he isn't doing his job well. He gets into good positions and hasn't been delivering.

Arshavin should be played in the hole, Walcott should be played upfront etc...I don't give a fuck. When they get into good positions, they have to be doing much more than they are. Ramsey, too. No exuses - if you get the ball 25 yards out, fucking do something useful with it instead of nervously edging it out to Sagna to hit the first man on the cross.

Sorry to sit on the fence a bit but I can see both LDG and PnG's point about Sessingyoung (don't care how its splet). I don't think we should have to look for top quality players. I'm still happy with the Arteta and Mertesacker signings. But if we're going to make small improvements, we need a few more of them to compensate for the lack of one big improvement. But it's not sustainable to buy lots of players and keep the disproportionately large squad we'll need just because we can't sort out the issue of why we get so many injuries. We make a good signing, he'll play a month and get injured for the next 5. What's the point.

[Joker]

Sessegnon is an excellent player and evidence that there are players available on the market who aren't overly expensive but would have made a huge improvement to our squad. Him, VDV, Parker, Kompany etc could all have been bought for reasonable prices, but Wenger decided it was better to sign players like Bischoff, Denilson, Squillaci, Silvestre etc.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I'm tired of this formation talk. Am I the only one who thinks that once an attacking player keeps getting the ball in good positions, he should have no excuse for failing to deliver? Lets get some basics straight - attacking players have to score goals. Gervinho should be scoring goals. He isn't and so he isn't doing his job well. He gets into good positions and hasn't been delivering.

Arshavin should be played in the hole, Walcott should be played upfront etc...I don't give a fuck. When they get into good positions, they have to be doing much more than they are. Ramsey, too. No exuses - if you get the ball 25 yards out, fucking do something useful with it instead of nervously edging it out to Sagna to hit the first man on the cross.

Sorry to sit on the fence a bit but I can see both LDG and PnG's point about Sessingyoung (don't care how its splet). I don't think we should have to look for top quality players. I'm still happy with the Arteta and Mertesacker signings. But if we're going to make small improvements, we need a few more of them to compensate for the lack of one big improvement. But it's not sustainable to buy lots of players and keep the disproportionately large squad we'll need just because we can't sort out the issue of why we get so many injuries. We make a good signing, he'll play a month and get injured for the next 5. What's the point.

Your right, i was only pointed out if you look at his record he never scored many goals before he came here. so really i never expected him to score many. but he should be more lethal. His pace he gives the team and his trickry has been useful.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Sessegnon is an excellent player and evidence that there are players available on the market who aren't overly expensive but would have made a huge improvement to our squad. Him, VDV, Parker, Kompany etc could all have been bought for reasonable prices, but Wenger decided it was better to sign players like Bischoff, Denilson, Squillaci, Silvestre etc.

Why would we buy VDV when we had Cesc. Had real sold him this summer they we may have got him.

The other 3 you have a point, they would have imroved us.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Diaby has the potential if he stayed fit, but he's not great at passing. If you rate Diaby, you'd like Sessegnon even more. He's a much better passer.

He probs is and would have made an improvement to this team no doubt, Like LDG if we lost cesc and Nasri and got him and a few other dud players not many fans would have been happy with that. At sunderland he plays under no pressure. Would he be that good here with more pressure on his shoulders.

[Joker]

Why woukd we buy VDV when we had cesc.

VDV could have played as part of a central midfield 3, behind the centre forward or even as one of the wide players in a front three (although he's not as effective there). Our problem has been that our squad has been too weak, with insufficient quality in numbers. What would have been the problem of having an additional quality player to give us more options? And anyway, Wenger must have known Cesc would have left eventually in 2010 (when VDV signed) so he could have become Cesc's successor.

[LDG]

Problem is his footballing brain is Alwful.

:haha:

[LDG]

We also have Alex Song who can play there.

:d

You need to swap the "also" and "have" around to get the true WUMger accentuation though.....

[Marc Overmars]

Why would we buy VDV when we had Cesc. Had real sold him this summer they we may have got him.

The other 3 you have a point, they would have imroved us.

Just because you have a similar player doesn't mean you shouldn't be looking to add to the squad. I mean Spurs already had Modric, who is their Cesc, yet they still went and bought VDV. It's a squad game now, everyone gets their share of game time. Particuarly in our case because of injuries.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

VDV could have played as part of a central midfield 3, behind the centre forward or even as one of the wide players in a front three (although he's not as effective there). Our problem has been that our squad has been too weak, with insufficient quality in numbers. What would have been the problem of having an additional quality player to give us more options? And anyway, Wenger must have known Cesc would have left eventually in 2010 (when VDV signed) so he could have become Cesc's successor.

Yep but thought Nasri would be heir to the throne, you make good points though, imo we never needed him then.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Just because you have a similar player doesn't mean you shouldn't be looking to add to the squad. I mean Spurs already had Modric, who is their Cesc, yet they still went and bought VDV. It's a squad game now, everyone gets their share of game time. Particuarly in our case because of injuries.

True, With wenger Cesc and Nas were starters, so it be a case of the dutchman on the bench would he be happy with that. I would have like him here though.

[LDG]

Just because you have a similar player doesn't mean you shouldn't be looking to add to the squad. I mean Spurs already had Modric, who is their Cesc, yet they still went and bought VDV. It's a squad game now, everyone gets their share of game time. Particuarly in our case because of injuries.

You are forgetting that we have also Alex Song who...

Gah.

Fuckit.

[Marc Overmars]

You are forgetting that we have also Alex Song who...

Gah.

Fuckit.

We cannot kill Diaby either. :angry:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:haha:

Could not even use his brain to take out barton properly got sent off for some week head butt.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We cannot kill Diaby either. :angry:

well im sure it could be arranged.

[LDG]

We cannot kill Diaby either. :angry:

The bloke who me and my bruv used to sit next too hated Diaby so much :lol:

Mind you, he hated Bender more. He still shouts at him even though he's not playing for us anymore. "Fucking Bendtner!!!! Rah rah rah!!" :haha:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The bloke who me and my bruv used to sit next too hated Diaby so much :lol:

Mind you, he hated Bender more. He still shouts at him even though he's not playing for us anymore. "Fucking Bendtner!!!! Rah rah rah!!" :haha:

Well both are clowns tbh, but the former is so enfuriating(sp) so you can't blame the man for hating him.

[Coney]

VDV could have played as part of a central midfield 3, behind the centre forward or even as one of the wide players in a front three (although he's not as effective there). Our problem has been that our squad has been too weak, with insufficient quality in numbers. What would have been the problem of having an additional quality player to give us more options? And anyway, Wenger must have known Cesc would have left eventually in 2010 (when VDV signed) so he could have become Cesc's successor.


Yep but thought Nasri would be heir to the throne, you make good points though, imo we never needed him then.

Sort of 'The King is dead, long live the Queen?'

[Power n Glory]

I'm tired of this formation talk. Am I the only one who thinks that once an attacking player keeps getting the ball in good positions, he should have no excuse for failing to deliver? Lets get some basics straight - attacking players have to score goals. Gervinho should be scoring goals. He isn't and so he isn't doing his job well. He gets into good positions and hasn't been delivering.

Arshavin should be played in the hole, Walcott should be played upfront etc...I don't give a fuck. When they get into good positions, they have to be doing much more than they are. Ramsey, too. No exuses - if you get the ball 25 yards out, fucking do something useful with it instead of nervously edging it out to Sagna to hit the first man on the cross.

Sorry to sit on the fence a bit but I can see both LDG and PnG's point about Sessingyoung (don't care how its splet). I don't think we should have to look for top quality players. I'm still happy with the Arteta and Mertesacker signings. But if we're going to make small improvements, we need a few more of them to compensate for the lack of one big improvement. But it's not sustainable to buy lots of players and keep the disproportionately large squad we'll need just because we can't sort out the issue of why we get so many injuries. We make a good signing, he'll play a month and get injured for the next 5. What's the point.

I don't think we could play Gervinho anywhere else on the field for him to be more effective. He has pace and he's good at dribbling. That's it. His decision making is awful, delivery sloppy and finishing poor. He can play up front or in the centre because of his limitations. He was a winger at Lille as well, so it's his best position.

I see your point about delivering when in a good position and I'd say a player like Arshavin is hampered out on the wings. If he was playing in the hole, he'd deliver cutting through balls at a more frequent rate compared to Ramsey whose really struggling to deliver anything at the moment. Arshavin's assist ratio is excellent and on the left, your passing range is limited. You only have options to your right and nothing much else.

With Theo, he just has no business playing on the flanks. If you can't dribble, you have no business playing there. We' get a lot more out of him as a striker. But the formation talk is tiresome because Wenger will never try it.

[Coney]

I'm tired of this formation talk. Am I the only one who thinks that once an attacking player keeps getting the ball in good positions, he should have no excuse for failing to deliver? Lets get some basics straight - attacking players have to score goals. Gervinho should be scoring goals. He isn't and so he isn't doing his job well. He gets into good positions and hasn't been delivering.

No - not the only one. I think we need to by a proven striker (or two) with a proven track record of putting the ball in the net - who does something when he gets the ball in the box rather than wonder who to pass it to next, who does not panic and snatch at his shot.

[LDG]

I'm tired of this formation talk. Am I the only one who thinks that once an attacking player keeps getting the ball in good positions, he should have no excuse for failing to deliver? Lets get some basics straight - attacking players have to score goals. Gervinho should be scoring goals. He isn't and so he isn't doing his job well. He gets into good positions and hasn't been delivering.

Arshavin should be played in the hole, Walcott should be played upfront etc...I don't give a fuck. When they get into good positions, they have to be doing much more than they are. Ramsey, too. No exuses - if you get the ball 25 yards out, fucking do something useful with it instead of nervously edging it out to Sagna to hit the first man on the cross.

Sorry to sit on the fence a bit but I can see both LDG and PnG's point about Sessingyoung (don't care how its splet). I don't think we should have to look for top quality players. I'm still happy with the Arteta and Mertesacker signings. But if we're going to make small improvements, we need a few more of them to compensate for the lack of one big improvement. But it's not sustainable to buy lots of players and keep the disproportionately large squad we'll need just because we can't sort out the issue of why we get so many injuries. We make a good signing, he'll play a month and get injured for the next 5. What's the point.

This is the thing though. I've stuck by this lot through thick and thin....well, just thin, for the last few years. I've always thought we're capable. And I've never really thought we need much more than we've had. Quality back up maybe, but not much more.

The problem is, we haven't been producing; and if it gives the club, the fans and everyone a lift, to see an exciting big name player sign for us, then I'm all for it.

You're right with the positional thing. They're all capapble footballers. And I'm sure they score shitloads in training....but that's what it boils down to I guess. Our training involves training for matches we'd like them to be. Not training for matches that ARE going to be....94 mins on a pockmarked pitch in the north east, for example.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm tired of this formation talk. Am I the only one who thinks that once an attacking player keeps getting the ball in good positions, he should have no excuse for failing to deliver? Lets get some basics straight - attacking players have to score goals. Gervinho should be scoring goals. He isn't and so he isn't doing his job well. He gets into good positions and hasn't been delivering.

Arshavin should be played in the hole, Walcott should be played upfront etc...I don't give a fuck. When they get into good positions, they have to be doing much more than they are. Ramsey, too. No exuses - if you get the ball 25 yards out, fucking do something useful with it instead of nervously edging it out to Sagna to hit the first man on the cross.

Sorry to sit on the fence a bit but I can see both LDG and PnG's point about Sessingyoung (don't care how its splet). I don't think we should have to look for top quality players. I'm still happy with the Arteta and Mertesacker signings. But if we're going to make small improvements, we need a few more of them to compensate for the lack of one big improvement. But it's not sustainable to buy lots of players and keep the disproportionately large squad we'll need just because we can't sort out the issue of why we get so many injuries. We make a good signing, he'll play a month and get injured for the next 5. What's the point.

This is right. Let anyone here pick the starting line up and formation and it would make no difference. That's because our players can't do the basics. All year long we've been playing shit in the final third. Now that Sagna is back we're even worse. These players can't pass under pressure, they can't cross, they can't change the pace. Well maybe they can but they certainly haven't been doing it. Every time we win a corner, get a free kick, find space wide, look for a pass through the middle - you already know the outcome before the ball is kicked. Careless, sloppy, panicked garbage. With one exception, RvP. And now maybe Ox. (Wilshere is dead). The gulf in class between these natural footballers and the rest of the journeymen we have is immense. You can see it so clearly in everything they do. I watch teams like Stoke and Sunderland managing to take effective free kicks, cross, play simple passes and it's beyond belief we can't do the same. We can sure pass the shit out of the thing in midfield though. Square, square, square, back, square, wide, back to the middle, wide, square, back, forwards... oops. Boring. Most of these players don't deserve to be at the club and certainly don't deserve their eye watering salaries. Gervinho, like Walcott, is unforgivably stupid in the danger area. Pires he is not. Forget about bringing in one or two players to change this. We have been starved of investment year upon year and all that investment will have to be made up before we can field a decent team again. Teams like Man City have made the cost of that investment even greater, probably beyond our reach now. Is Wenger to blame for this? Yes. Is the board to blame? You bet your arse. And the players are to blame too. They all demand much for the service they provide but they don't deliver, in any sense of the word. Fuck them. I'm going to wait it out until they are all gone.

[Dog Toffee]

If Gervinho never scored again but created an assist per game id be happy with that. Goals arent everything, him and Theo should take some credit for the fact Van Persies been banging them in this season.

[Cripps_orig]

Tottenham manager Harry Redknapp believes Arsenal fans 'should be careful what they wish for' following calls to sack Arsene Wenger.

The Frenchman has come under scrutiny after his side suffered a 4-0 hammering at the hands of AC Milan in their Champions League last-16 first-leg tie, before being dumped out of the FA Cup by Sunderland.

Despite their recent poor form in cup competitions, Arsenal maintain fourth place in the Premier League but are level on points with Chelsea, while Newcastle United sit just one point behind.

Arsenal host Tottenham on Sunday but Redknapp maintains his opposite number is the best man to improve matters at the Emirates.

"They can't do any better than what they've got, can they Arsenal? They can't replace Wenger. He has been amazing the job he has done there. Wenger is top class," said Redknapp.

"Should Arsenal fans be careful what they wish for? Without a doubt. They have had fantastic times. Fifteen years of Champions League football. It's incredible.

"Having said that, let's hope we can make it a miserable weekend for them."

Redknapp dismissed the severity of Arsenal's recent run of results and maintains injuries have played their part in what is likely to be a seventh successive year without a trophy at the Emirates.

"You say they've had a rough patch but they are still bang there. By their standards, yes, but you have to look at all the circumstances of what they've been through this year," said Redknapp.

"They have had injuries in key areas that have hurt them but they will come back next year stronger than ever."

Redknapp highlighted the importance of securing an automatic Champions League place and admitted anything beyond third spot would be a welcome addition.

"It's the most important thing this year to be honest, finishing top club in London," he said.

"I really want to be top London club and at least keep that third place if we can - anything above that is a bonus."

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/02/24/2927402/tottenham-boss-harry-redknapp-defends-irreplaceable-arsene

:lol:

Even Harry wants Wenger to stay so we remain shit

[Power n Glory]

This is right. Let anyone here pick the starting line up and formation and it would make no difference. That's because our players can't do the basics. All year long we've been playing shit in the final third. Now that Sagna is back we're even worse. These players can't pass under pressure, they can't cross, they can't change the pace. Well maybe they can but they certainly haven't been doing it. Every time we win a corner, get a free kick, find space wide, look for a pass through the middle - you already know the outcome before the ball is kicked. Careless, sloppy, panicked garbage. With one exception, RvP. And now maybe Ox. (Wilshere is dead). The gulf in class between these natural footballers and the rest of the journeymen we have is immense. You can see it so clearly in everything they do. I watch teams like Stoke and Sunderland managing to take effective free kicks, cross, play simple passes and it's beyond belief we can't do the same. We can sure pass the shit out of the thing in midfield though. Square, square, square, back, square, wide, back to the middle, wide, square, back, forwards... oops. Boring. Most of these players don't deserve to be at the club and certainly don't deserve their eye watering salaries. Gervinho, like Walcott, is unforgivably stupid in the danger area. Pires he is not. Forget about bringing in one or two players to change this. We have been starved of investment year upon year and all that investment will have to be made up before we can field a decent team again. Teams like Man City have made the cost of that investment even greater, probably beyond our reach now. Is Wenger to blame for this? Yes. Is the board to blame? You bet your arse. And the players are to blame too. They all demand much for the service they provide but they don't deliver, in any sense of the word. Fuck them. I'm going to wait it out until they are all gone.

Ramsey and Arteta are the main culprits in my opinion. They can't play against teams that press hard and they play panicked balls all the time. That area has to be looke into and I would have dropped Ramsey for Rosicky months ago. People take it too easy on these two players. When under pressure, watch the sort of passes they make. Leg breakers or backward passes, nothing going forwards. We have to sort that area out or the team will continue to suffer. We miss Cesc Fabregas badly.