Arshavin in the Middle?

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Before Arshavin came to us he was known for being a creative central midfielder. We obviously played him out on the wing as we had to fit him somewhere with Fab and Nas around. So it confuses me a little that now they've both gone, Wilshere is injured and Ramsey is shite, we don't play him there. He would have much fewer defenisive duties, he could offer the creativity he does have without worrying so much about having to take a man on and he could score a few goals. Surely now is the time to see if he really does deserve to stay or not, in his preferred position.

I remember his 4 goals agaisnt Liverpool all came from a fairly central position, so why was he moved away from there.

[Flavs]

Before Arshavin came to us he was known for being a creative central midfielder. .

Well no, he is a deep lying striker of a wide striker. he cant do either of those for us as in the prem they tend to involve running.

[Newguy]

Well no, he is a deep lying striker of a wide striker. he cant do either of those for us as in the prem they tend to involve running.
I wouldn't class arshavin as a striker whether that be deep lying or wide. So yes, I don't see why he isn't played in a more central position in the centre. He should definitely be replacing ramsey, who is slow and gives the ball away.

[Flavs]

I wouldn't class arshavin as a striker whether that be deep lying or wide. So yes, I don't see why he isn't played in a more central position in the centre. He should definitely be replacing ramsey, who is slow and gives the ball away.

You want to put Andrei Arshavin in the middle of our midfield?? :lo: i can just see misters Parker, Modric and Van Der Vaart laughing their arses off at that.

Have you seen how much work Ramsey has to put in, in that position? I can see the fatman lasting 5 or 6 minutes and then dying

[Boss]

Arshavin's lack of work rate would see our midfield mauled were he in it.

Best position I can see for him is behind the striker but there's no place for him in our first team with his current form.

Gervinho and AOC should be our first choice wing forwards with Walcott and Arshavin backup.

[GP]

In the middle of a meat pie, maybe.

[Newguy]

You want to put Andrei Arshavin in the middle of our midfield?? :lo: i can just see misters Parker, Modric and Van Der Vaart laughing their arses off at that.

Have you seen how much work Ramsey has to put in, in that position? I can see the fatman lasting 5 or 6 minutes and then dying

Ramsey isnt anywhere near as good as some on here make out, lets not beat around the bush anymore regarding this kid. In regards to Arshavin, I still think he has it in him to play in the centre of a 3, just more further upfield, similar to what Wenger had Cesc do a couple seasons back. He's a professional footballer if he cant last 90minutes he should quit.

What we may need to take into consideration is the fact that he doesnt and never has liked playing down the wing. As we need to get the best out of the shitty squad we do have, I still think Arshavin has more to offer than Ramsey going forward and it's not like Ramsey is a defensive midfield specialist. We will get slaughtered by Spurs with a midfield consisting of Ramsey, Arteta and Song anyway, so why not at least get something better going forward?

Ramsey and Arteta are woeful going forward and offer absolutely nothing for us. I wouldnt mind seeing a midfield of Rosicky, Song and Arshavin. Or Coquelin, Song and Arshavin (before Coquelin's injury) with Song solely protecting the back four, no trying to be cesc for 90minutes ect. and 2 attacking midfielders. I feel we're at our best when we are attacking and should put out an attack minded side.

I know it's not the "arsenal way" but i think it's time to start putting the round pegs back into the round holes.

[Flavs]

Ramsey isnt anywhere near as good as some on here make out, lets not beat around the bush anymore regarding this kid. In regards to Arshavin, I still think he has it in him to play in the centre of a 3, just more further upfield, similar to what Wenger had Cesc do a couple seasons back. He's a professional footballer if he cant last 90minutes he should quit.

What we may need to take into consideration is the fact that he doesnt and never has liked playing down the wing. As we need to get the best out of the shitty squad we do have, I still think Arshavin has more to offer than Ramsey going forward and it's not like Ramsey is a defensive midfield specialist. We will get slaughtered by Spurs with a midfield consisting of Ramsey, Arteta and Song anyway, so why not at least get something better going forward?

Ramsey and Arteta are woeful going forward and offer absolutely nothing for us. I wouldnt mind seeing a midfield of Rosicky, Song and Arshavin. Or Coquelin, Song and Arshavin (before Coquelin's injury) with Song solely protecting the back four, no trying to be cesc for 90minutes ect. and 2 attacking midfielders. I feel we're at our best when we are attacking and should put out an attack minded side.

I know it's not the "arsenal way" but i think it's time to start putting the round pegs back into the round holes.

or we could just sell him as he offers nothing to the squad and gets paid a fortune.

[Newguy]

or we could just sell him as he offers nothing to the squad and gets paid a fortune. yes,:good: we could do that also

[Marc Overmars]

He'll be off in the summer so there's no point trying to sort out this lost cause.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He'll be off in the summer so there's no point trying to sort out this lost cause.

Might as well sell now i mean the russian window is open, we have nout to loose anymore so get a decent price for him and let him be on his merry ways.

[server too busy!]

We have absolutely noone else who can play that role till Wilshere is back. Might as well give him a try and see what happens. We have precious little quality as it is and we all know what Arshavin is capable of on his day. So why not give him a chance for the next few games. He doesn't exactly need to track back all that much with Song and Arteta behind him, certainly less than on the wing.

Just seeign Ramsey trying to spray side ways passes all the time is depressing. We need someone with a little trickery and a little pace that can take their marker out of the game and pull other players out of position. This is especially important against teams like Sunderland that sit back and wait for the counter attack.

[Flavs]

If we are going to lay 4-2-3-1 then AOC should be in the middle attacking mid position

[dazthegooner]

Is this the Russian version of Malcolm in the middle? :unsure:

[Alpha]

A good player , let alone a professional is supposed to give a decent performance in any position which is quite similar to his natural position . A good defensive midfielder must be able to play in defence . A good attacking midfielder should be able to play as a striker or a creative midfielder and vice-versa . Arshavin must have passed it or just not interested to play for Arsenal anymore .

[Fist of Lehmann]

We have absolutely noone else who can play that role till Wilshere is back. Might as well give him a try and see what happens. We have precious little quality as it is and we all know what Arshavin is capable of on his day. So why not give him a chance for the next few games. He doesn't exactly need to track back all that much with Song and Arteta behind him, certainly less than on the wing.

Just seeign Ramsey trying to spray side ways passes all the time is depressing. We need someone with a little trickery and a little pace that can take their marker out of the game and pull other players out of position. This is especially important against teams like Sunderland that sit back and wait for the counter attack.I think that under circumstances like Saturday, we could have thrown him on instead of Awlcott. The Russian could hardly have done any less in that centre forward position than the virtual nothing that Awlcott managed.

But there seems to be a will from the manager to shoehorn Theo in somehow, even now Oxlain seems to have superceded him. Wenger has talked before about Chamberlain being able to play the centre mid role, and until we see him tried there it's an unknown quantity.

But if the manager is serious about sticking with Walcott then a front 3 of Gerv-Rvp-Awl with Chamberlain in behind remains a possibilty.

[Power n Glory]

You want to put Andrei Arshavin in the middle of our midfield?? :lo: i can just see misters Parker, Modric and Van Der Vaart laughing their arses off at that.

Have you seen how much work Ramsey has to put in, in that position? I can see the fatman lasting 5 or 6 minutes and then dying


Ramsey doesn't know what he's doing in that position. All that running around leads to confusion because he has no discipline and it's hard for anyone to find him because he's always on the move or overcrowding space. You'll see occasions where someone is looking for an outlet but can't find anyone in the middle of the park because players are all over the place and not sticking to the centre.

Cesc and co used to play triangles around opponents and we used to be team that always have a player at the side or ahead of the guy in possession so he can make an easy pass. These days all we get is this side to side nonsense and you sometimes see two players standing in close proximity of each other.

Arteta and Ramsey aren't cutting and can't support the front three. When Song pushes up, he's the only player that tries a splitting pass behind defenders, but him moving up all the time leads to more confusion. We have a terrible midfield trio and this article sums it up. Too slow on the ball and no cohesion.


Arsenal's flaws exposed as Sunderland stump opposition with hybrid approach
Arsenal don't like pressure and they struggle to break down tight defences. Tactically, it begs the question: what are they good at?


Arsenal's 2-0 defeat at Sunderland said so much about so many aspects of their play – their mental strength, their level of confidence, their raw quality.

The nature of the defeat, signalling the end of their last genuine chance of silverware this season, inevitably leads to grand conclusions based around small or simple incidents. ITV highlighted Sébastien Squillaci walking straight down the tunnel having being replaced, supposedly indicative of the lack of team spirit, while Roy Keane was outraged by so many players wearing gloves, an example of the lack of fight.

Tucked away was a smaller tactical point that can also be twisted into a microcosm of Arsenal's season. There are broadly two strategies a side can take when they do not have the ball. They can push up high and pressurise their opponents, or they can drop very deep, allow the opposition time on the ball in deep positions, but concentrate on remaining tight in their own third. This is the principal tactical debate in modern football – Barcelona have become the dominant side in Europe by pressing heavily, but the only side to deny Pep Guardiola three consecutive European Cups is Inter, who won the tournament by sitting deep in the 2009-10 season.

Of course, it is entirely possible to combine the approaches, which is basically what Martin O'Neill did this weekend. In the league meeting between the sides a week before, Sunderland sat very deep – they played fewer passes in the opposition half than any other side that weekend, and they allowed Mikel Arteta to play 100 passes, more than any Arsenal player had managed this season. It was an exaggerated form of standing off. But though they frustrated Arsène Wenger's side for long periods, Arsenal eventually found a way through. Aaron Ramsey steered in a shot from outside the box, while Thierry Henry found himself on the end of a cross to flick in the winner.

With that in mind, Sunderland used a hybrid approach. They often replicated that caution, but combined this with tenacity higher up the pitch when Arsenal were attempting to build attacks. A key part of Sunderland's gameplan was pressing the three Arsenal central midfielders when they received a forward pass, forcing Arteta, Ramsey and Alex Song to return the ball to where it came from. Arsenal's momentum was killed and they had to start again. When the away side did enjoy long periods on the ball and moved higher up the pitch, then Sunderland reverted to their deeper positions and packed the penalty box.

And this is the puzzle of Arsenal's current style – they are not good enough to overcome either problem. They conceded the first goal after midfield pressure, when Craig Gardner closed down Johan Djourou and forced a free-kick. They conceded the second when Sunderland sat deep, then broke quickly.

Arsenal have long struggled with deep and narrow defences. Stylistically, this should not be as much of a problem as in previous years – they no longer incessantly try to thread the ball through the middle, as they did with Cesc Fábregas the focal point with Samir Nasri and Andriy Arshavin coming inside from the flank. Instead, they play with width and pace, with Theo Walcott, Gervinho and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain options out wide.

This naturally lends itself to playing against narrow sides, but Arsenal move the ball too slowly into wide zones, allowing the opposition to retreat into deep positions where going around the back four results in running out of space. Gervinho, for example, may frequently lose all sense of direction when in the penalty box, but he showed with one good bit of play in this game, when forcing a save from Simon Mignolet, that he can be effective when given the ball quickly and able to run in behind. Against Milan, Arsenal surely had to target the defensively poor Milan full-backs, but the ball never arrived at the wingers in potential one-on-one situations. Pitch-related concerns notwithstanding, it was simply a failure to maximise the area they were stronger in.

Now, they also struggle with pressure in midfield. Physical problems are a key factor; Arteta is too lightweight, as shown by how easily he was shoved off the ball by Stéphane Sessègnon for Sunderland's second goal. Ramsey is a fine competitor at his best, especially considering the severity of the injury he suffered at Stoke two years ago. But he has looked exhausted for weeks, and is currently the equivalent of a dying battery that has been shaken to squeeze more life out of it, when a fresh replacement is sorely needed. Song should be a fine physical force in front of the back four, but the insistence upon midfield rotation means he often ends up ahead of his two midfield colleagues, and is in no position to help.

In Wenger's glory days, Arsenal could deal with that physical attention. They were at their best with two imposing players in the centre – first Patrick Vieira and Emmanuel Petit, then later Vieira and Gilberto Silva. If the opposition tried to rough them up, Arsenal could overpower them. Even Mathieu Flamini was a decent solution. He was a smaller player, but fierce and combative. Much more talented players have left the club in the past few years, but Flamini's decision not to sign a new contract in the summer of 2008 was a significant blow.

The other option for getting around close attention in the centre is a sudden burst of pace and directness. The significance of Jack Wilshere's absence should not be overstated, but that is exactly what he brought to the side last season, and that is partly why he was appreciated by Arsenal fans, to an even greater extent than his fine performances would justify.

It is currently unclear what style of football Arsenal would want to play against. They are not good at dealing with sides pressuring them, and they are not good at dealing with sides who stand off and sit back. The only possible combination that works for them is a side foolish enough to play a high defensive line yet not close down sufficiently in midfield. It is no coincidence that Arsenal's only good performance against a top side this season, as Daniel Taylor notes, was away at Chelsea, who employed those tactics when they and André Villas-Boas were figuring each other out.

Maybe they still are – you half-expect that from a young manager trying to revolutionise a side's style of play. But the main benefit of Wenger's long-term reign has been consistency of approach, familiarity of ideals. For the first time since he joined the club, it is difficult to pinpoint precisely what Arsenal are good at.

Walcott fails to fire through the middle

The other interesting feature of Arsenal's game was Walcott's brief spell as a striker – he has frequently stated his desire to be fielded as a centre-forward, and here he finally got his chance. But the timing was wrong – late on Sunderland were sitting deeper and deeper, and though quick players are often used as super-subs because the opposition have tired, it often emerges that the player has no space to exploit. Walcott was desperate to run past the defence to use his pace, but his most significant contribution was being caught offside twice.

[Flavs]

Ramsey doesn't know what he's doing in that position. All that running around leads to confusion because he has no discipline and it's hard for anyone to find him because he's always on the move or overcrowding space. You'll see occasions where someone is looking for an outlet but can't find anyone in the middle of the park because players are all over the place and not sticking to the centre.

Cesc and co used to play triangles around opponents and we used to be team that always have a player at the side or ahead of the guy in possession so he can make an easy pass. These days all we get is this side to side nonsense and you sometimes see two players standing in close proximity of each other.

Arteta and Ramsey aren't cutting and can't support the front three. When Song pushes up, he's the only player that tries a splitting pass behind defenders, but him moving up all the time leads to more confusion. We have a terrible midfield trio and this article sums it up. Too slow on the ball and no cohesion.

yeah but none of that changes the fact that Arshavin would be dire in this tactic centrally

[Cripps_orig]

Play him behind the striker and we'll see the best of him.

[Power n Glory]

yeah but none of that changes the fact that Arshavin would be dire in this tactic centrally

One behind the striker, not 4-3-3. RVP needs someone that can thread him the ball and the wingers need someone that can do that as well.

[Power n Glory]

Play him behind the striker and we'll see the best of him.

:good:

[Flavs]

One behind the striker, not 4-3-3. RVP needs someone that can thread him the ball and the wingers need someone that can do that as well.

No way are we going to play 4-4-1-1 with our wide players, they don't have the engines for it.

[Syn]

Don't really want to see Arshavin on the pitch. He has nothing left to give. His footballing days are behind him. He can now look forward to documenting his depression in the Russian Big Brother house. Fucking nihilist. What a tragic waste of oxygen he has turned out to be.

[Power n Glory]

No way are we going to play 4-4-1-1 with our wide players, they don't have the engines for it.

In a 4-3-3 our wide players play further up the field but are also expected to track back to protect the wingbacks. It’s demanding on the legs, but to be fair, they haven’t struggled to make up the ground. Gervinho, Ox and Walcott aren’t that bad at tracking back. It’s more of discipline problem, confusing instructions and the midfield losing possession. It’s not stamina for these guys.

[Coney]

Sometimes I think we are just playing a 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 formation.

[WengerISaLizard]

Sometimes I think we are just playing a 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 formation.

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