Silent Stan Krankee and the AST today

[Flavs]

Just seen that old Silent Stan is flying in today for a meeting with the board and manager. The financials are due out this week (and a healthy profit is expected) and the AST meeting is today.

Could be a very interesting or a very dull and predictable day as the board reaffirm their belief that "Arsene is the man" and nothing will change.

Can you twitter types post up anything that comes from the meeting please?

Does anyone really expect Stan is flying in to sack Wenger? Do we expect anything to change? Attendances are down we all know that and i think we can all say that the corporate sales will have gone down massively as well as box sales. I bet season ticket renewals will get hammered as well. Seems to me the perfect time to get rid of the manager and bring some promise back ready for the start of next season...

[LDG]

Very interested to see what goes on this week.

I'd like to see some of these ****s take some responsibility, rather than leaving it to our manager to take every single piece of blame. Give him some support if he's going to remain in charge.

[dazthegooner]

Well seen a few newspaper reports and Stan is not afraid to sack someone if he feels they have gone as far as they (he even sacked the manager who won there 1st MSL title) but don't think he would sack him maybe just ask him to step up to the board then replace him.

[Grebbo]

Stan's not going to do anything until he owns the club.

[GP]

Can you imagine if Wenger was on the board?

New manager goes to the board to ask for money to buy a defender.

Wenger: 'Why? You have Djourou who is super, super quality, and don't forget Alex Song can also play there'

:ilt:

[LDG]

Stan's not going to do anything until he owns the club.

I'm sure he has a tincey wincey of power, despite the lockdown. He obviously can't change the board etc, but I'm sure as shit, he can lay down a few ground rules.

[LDG]

Can you imagine if Wenger was on the board?

New manager goes to the board to ask for money to buy a defender.

Wenger: 'Why? You have Djourou who is super, super quality, and don't forget Alex Song can also play there'

:ilt:

:haha:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

wont sack.

said wenger was gonna be here for a long time when he came in, expect nothing less.

rumours suggest we'll be given a £50m warchest to spend in the summer.

well after the quality of players wengers bought in over the past 5 years i sincerely hope it isnt wenger who gets to spend that otherwise it's £50m down the drain.

spend £10m of that on pep/klopp or another manager and give the new manager £40m to spend.

wenger out.

[Joker]

As long as the financials are fine, nothing's going to change.

[Grebbo]

wont sack.

said wenger was gonna be here for a long time when he came in, expect nothing less.

rumours suggest we'll be given a £50m warchest to spend in the summer.

well after the quality of players wengers bought in over the past 5 years i sincerely hope it isnt wenger who gets to spend that otherwise it's £50m down the drain.

spend £10m of that on pep/klopp or another manager and give the new manager £40m to spend.

wenger out.

That's the thing. Would you trust Wenger with £50m to buy players??

I wouldn't.

Remember him wanting to spend £17m on Baptista?

His big money signings are generally shit (Reyes, Jeffers, Walcott, Arshavin etc)

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I'm sure he has a tincey wincey of power, despite the lockdown. He obviously can't change the board etc, but I'm sure as shit, he can lay down a few ground rules.

Nah he said he won't make decions on a baord he does not fully own.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

wont sack.

said wenger was gonna be here for a long time when he came in, expect nothing less.

rumours suggest we'll be given a £50m warchest to spend in the summer.

well after the quality of players wengers bought in over the past 5 years i sincerely hope it isnt wenger who gets to spend that otherwise it's £50m down the drain.

spend £10m of that on pep/klopp or another manager and give the new manager £40m to spend.

wenger out.

we will need more then that to make this sqaud better lol

[Flavs]

With every loss our potential player pool narrows so i am unsure as to whether that money will do us any good. There is little wrong with the personnel a good kicking and some horse placenta couldn't sort out.

Funny but they were interviewing Leeds fans outside the ground about Warnock taking over and loads were saying the same thing "we have the players but they are complacent and lazy, he will get that sorted and give most of them a kick up the arse otherwise they are out the door"

We need a more prestigious and less ****y version of Warnock

[dazthegooner]

Well tbh Reyes didn't look too bad until the Neville sisters kicked fook out of him and the racism stuff with Henry never been the same since.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I've always liked Warnock, a real player's coach and an uncomplicated likeable kind of guy. I recall years ago, probably after one of his teams got some sort of result against us, he commented he really admired us but all we needed was a spine of 2 good ol fashioned english centre backs and we'd be good to go. Simplistic yet good advice that still holds.

[Flavs]

I've always liked Warnock, a real player's coach and an uncomplicated likeable line of guy. I recall years ago, probably after one of his teams got some post of result against us, that he really admired us but all we needed was a spine of 2 good ol fashioned english centre backs and we'd be good to go. Simplistic yet good advice that still holds.

Shawcross and Taylor :bow:

[Fist of Lehmann]

Shawcross and Taylor :bow:As a gift to the fans :good:

[BOBN]

we will need more then that to make this sqaud better lol
thats what I think.

£50m would have been more than enough when we had people like cesc in and around it. when it just needed a "spine" the "2 or 3 players".

now we need world class quality, a spine and some depth. 5 players or more. its like the crack in the windscreen, we should have got onto it earlier but now we have to pay a hefty premium.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

we will need more then that to make this sqaud better lol

maybe, maybe not.

sagna=£10m
vidic= £7m
ba= free
enrique= £6m
tiote= £4m
samba= £300k

off the top of my head.

there's cheap, quality players. it's just wengers going for the completely wrong type.

[Flavs]

£50mil?

Well we could use £10mil to get rid of Wenger and Pat Rice etc

£10mil to poach moyes, pay everton off and allow him to hire a staff and clean out the crap (almunia, denilson and so on)

That still leaves us £30mil for Moyes to go back to Everton and poach Fellaini and Baines and then he still has spare change to use on a big fucking stick to beat out lazy, sorry-ass players with.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

maybe, maybe not.

sagna=£10m
vidic= £7m
ba= free
enrique= £6m
tiote= £4m
samba= £300k

off the top of my head.

there's cheap, quality players. it's just wengers going for the completely wrong type.

Not debating that, my point was if we want to get back to challenging for the league, then spending £40 mill won't be enough.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Not debating that, my point was if we want to get back to challenging for the league, then spending £40 mill won't be enough.

and i just said it could.

but under wenger it couldnt.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

and i just said it could.

but under wenger it couldnt.

Don't matter who the manger is we need to spend big, like Graham and the others have said.

[Flavs]

Don't matter who the manger is .

Well actually it kinda does

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Well actually it kinda does

Sorry, my point was, that Serious investment is needed, even if klopp comes in spending 40 mill won't make us challengers again, we need 5/6 quality players at best.

[Master Splinter]

Moyes would bring in Hibbert, Phil Neville and players like Beckford.

And shit Russians.

Double-team of Moyes as defensive coach and AVB as attacking coach tbh. Double-teams always work.

Van Damme and Rodman :bow:.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Arsenal owner Stan Kroenke fully supportive of Arsene Wenger ahead of club board meeting
Stan Kroenke, Arsenal’s billionaire owner, will reaffirm his support for Arsène Wenger this week when he flies into London for a meeting with the club’s manager and the rest of the board.[/h]Saturday’s 2-0 FA Cup defeat against Sunday has effectively condemned Arsenal to another trophy-less season, but the message from Kroenke is that the club must now remain unified and focused on securing a 16th consecutive top-four finish. The Arsenal directors will hold a regular board meeting on Thursday, with Kroenke and Wenger both due to attend.




From the telegraph

[Cripps_orig]

Board and Wenger need to go

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Board and Wenger need to go

:gp: did you expect him to say diffrent lol

[Cripps_orig]

I've always liked Warnock, a real player's coach and an uncomplicated likeable kind of guy. I recall years ago, probably after one of his teams got some sort of result against us, he commented he really admired us Pretty much think the same of Warnock as well. Not sure why hes disliked on here. Hes not a Fat Sam, Hughes, MON, Brown etc

[Coney]

From the telegraph


Arsenal owner Stan Kroenke fully supportive of Arsene Wenger ahead of club board meeting

So he's fucked then.

[BOBN]

lol @ warnock being likeable,

his defence of barton the other week was outrageous.

[LDG]

http://www.arsenaltrust.org/news/2012/ast-analysis-of-financial-position-of-arsenal-football-club

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

:good: link LDG- some interesting parts:


The current wage bill of c£130m is sizeable and in the view of the AST there is
clear inefficiency in wage spend evidenced by poor
performances on the pitch and the number of players
the club have either on loan (ie can't be sold) or deemed not good enough to play in the first team.
Our wage spend is 40% higher than the payroll at another club in North
London and Arsenal are in danger of being overtaken
more than temporarily by those who spend their wages more efficiently.
and more importantly

If reduced revenues
push the club into a
loss making position, are there
FFP issues for Arsenal's playing
cost base in 2013 and 2014? It was only during the
summer of 2009 that a rights issue proposal to give the
manager additional firepower in the face of increased
competition was rejected by the Board as "not necessary" citing specific advice from
Arsène Wenger.
For those who can't remember or don't understand that was when Usmanov urged the shareholders to basically rebuy their shares (more precisely percentage ownership) and give all the proceeds to AW to ONLY spend on players. That little trick by the so called villian would have cost us the fans, the club we love and AW, NOTHING! But the important point now is under UEFAs new FFP policy, we probably can't dream of pulling that trick off again. But don't worry, AW the hostage, loves the club more than all of us and feels the pain more than all of us, and that's all that really matters :good:

[Cripps_orig]

ARSENE WENGER has £50millon sitting in his transfer kitty.

And Gunners fans who have done the maths want to know why he has not spent it.

The Arsenal Supporters' Trust are demanding answers from club owner Stan Kroenke and the Emirates board as Wenger makes it SEVEN seasons without a trophy.

At a lively AST meeting last night, members asked if Wenger was held back from spending last summer and in January because of fears Arsenal would not qualify for next season's Champions League.

They also wanted to know why North London rivals Spurs are so far ahead despite having a 40 per cent lower wage bill.

Fans fear failure to secure a top-four spot will lead to playing budgets being slashed.

Arsenal are expected to announce pre-tax profits of about £45m — boosted by the sales of Cesc Fabregas and Samir Nasri.

The club insists it is Wenger's choice to spend on players.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4142399/Arsene-Wenger-has-50million-kitty.html

As expected, all down to Wenger

[Olivier's xmas twist]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4142399/Arsene-Wenger-has-50million-kitty.html

As expected, all down to Wenger

Yep because anybody from the sun would really knows what goes down in our club, do you really thing the board are going to say anything diffrent.

[Cripps_orig]

Ah the "its from the Sun so must be BS" excuse the WUMs hide behind :lol:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Ah the "its from the Sun so must be BS" excuse the WUMs hide behind :lol:

Never said it was BS read what i said

[Coney]

Never said it was BS read what i said

Alright - I'll say its bullshit then.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Alright - I'll say its bullshit then.

:lol:

I mean how would the sun know how much money we had to spend and i doubt anyone in the club would tell them a thing.

[Cripps_orig]

You make a good point.

I mean how absurd that in this day and age journalists would not have contacts all over the place.

[KSE Comedy Club]

:lol:

I mean how would the sun know how much money we had to spend and i doubt anyone in the club would tell them a thing.Probably because it's written in the news section of the AST website about the financials of the club.

Just a guess mind.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You make a good point.

I mean how absurd that in this day and age journalists would not have contacts all over the place.

Were a club that don't even tell the media how much we pay for players why the hell would we tell them how much money we have. I can't see Ivan going to the sun and going AW has £50 mill but he won't spend it, if they knew that and they ain't sacked him for failing what does that make the board?

[Cripps_orig]

Probably because it's written in the news section of the AST website.

Just a guess mind.Stop speaking sense.

Its easier to play the "its the Sun so must be BS" card rather than critisise the board or Wenger

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Probably because it's written in the news section of the AST website.

Just a guess mind.

Even so the club would not tell anybody how much money the manger has to spend AFC don't do that, their 2 secreative. It may be corrected and AW may be sitting on 50 mill and may not have spent it, however i don't think the club would tell on the manager like that they have been too protective of him why ship him down the river now.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Even so the club would not tell anybody how much money the manger has to spend AFC don't do that, their 2 secreative. It may be corrected and AW may be sitting on 50 mill and may not have spent it, however i don't think the club would tell on the manager like that they have been too protective of him why ship him down the river now.It's written down on the site, in great detail, exactly how much we have to spend and all available to wenger.

Why don't you read it, see for yourself?

Or do the AST know fuck all about the club also and are just making stuff up :rolleyes:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It's written down on the site, in great detail, exactly how much we have to spend and all available to wenger.

Why don't you read it, see for yourself.


it proably is written down, what i'm saying is can you see Ivan given an interview to who ever in the sun and saying their is £50 mill to spend but Aw won't spend it.

[KSE Comedy Club]

it proably is written down, what i'm saying is can you see Ivan given an interview to who ever in the sun and saying their is £50 mill to spend but Aw won't spend it.Oh ffs.

[Cripps_orig]

Oh ffs.:lol:

Just remember who youre replying to

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Oh ffs.

Yep so we do have £55 mill to spend and the sun were only coping what they saw. Well no excues come the summer why the money is not spent. Maybe it is time the Russian bought the club not sure how much good he may do but its worth a shot right.

[fakeyank]

You make a good point.

I mean how absurd that in this day and age journalists would not have contacts all over the place.

:haha:

AW and his minions :rose:

[Letters]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4142399/Arsene-Wenger-has-50million-kitty.html

As expected, all down to Wenger

So why haven't they sacked him?

[Japan Shaking All Over]

We have to take a hit......next summer may see the end of Wenger and rack up some red!!

[LDG]

Stop speaking sense.

Its easier to play the "its the Sun so must be BS" card rather than critisise the board or Wenger

But then again, if people read the AST report, then you wouldn't need to read the Sun's awful and bullshit interpretation of it.

:shrug:

[Flavs]

But then again, if people read the AST report, then you wouldn't need to read the Sun's awful and bullshit interpretation of it.

:shrug:

Woah woah woah there son, you aren't trying to suggest that tabloid media put spin on things to try and make it more scandalous/extreme are you?

[Flavs]

Anyway ignoring the kids

Wouldn't it be funny if Stan came in this week sacked Wenger and his staff and told the board they would all be replaced as soon as the lockdown ends. Then he replaced Wenger with some random bloke we don't expect and put all his own men on the board.

Or

he comes in and announces that over a vodka and a cigar him and Usmanov have kissed and made up and decided to buy the whole club outright and still sack the manager and all the staff/most of the players.

Or

as largely expected Stan will state his backing for Wenger and nothing will change and this time next year we will be having this exact same conversation but after getting knocked out of the Europa League instead of the champs.

[KSE Comedy Club]

So why haven't they sacked him?Because he makes them rich.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

But then again, if people read the AST report, then you wouldn't need to read the Sun's awful and bullshit interpretation of it.

:shrug:

Thats was the point i was trying to make then ACH turned it into, something about people using the sun as an excuse etc.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

So why haven't they sacked him?

You do rememeber who your replying too?

[Flavs]

http://www.arsenaltrust.org/news/2012/ast-analysis-of-financial-position-of-arsenal-football-club

That is fascinating

especially this bit

Arsenal always spends all its football income. With a wage bill (all employees, not just playing and coaching staff) of c£130m (fourth highest in the Premier League) the club is not "cheap" and has paid generously to assemble and remunerate the current squad. Quality and availability is another issue!

:lol:

[LDG]

It's written down on the site, in great detail, exactly how much we have to spend and all available to wenger.

Why don't you read it, see for yourself?

Or do the AST know fuck all about the club also and are just making stuff up :rolleyes:

Yes, there is a cash surplus of circa 50mil. And the "potential" 35mil profit on Queesland Terrace.

But;

i)
The AST is always at pains to point out that a player coming in on a four year deal at £50k per week has a total contract cost of £10m in wages (£2.5m x 4yrs), and these future wages of net squad additions need to come from either savings when other players depart or cash reserves and/or the remaining £35m of expected property realisations. It is for this reason that the "resale value" of a player has often appeared as important to Arsenal as the day one impact the player has on the first team squad.



50k a week eh. Lollers.

ii)
The AST estimates that the cost to the club of failure to qualify for the Champions League is circa £45m in annual revenues


Stop reading the headlines for starters.

They are trying to assertain whether there are/were funds, or is the club being cautious, in the event that we don't qualify for the ECL.

Of more concern, and where Wenger is being criticised, is the wage bill. And rightly so. Why have we been paying shit players so much money is the argument.

Should Wenger be held to account for his "advice" regarding the rights issue? Sorry, but he can't tell them to rebuy their sodding shares. He may have advised it was not necessary, owing to the fact that we had Cesc, Nasri and plenty of other decent players who SHOULD have won us the league. Notwithstanding the fact that he has a duty to the club, and the board (his employers), and if he advised "yes, buy your shares back to give me money" and it fucked them over, he would be crucified. Not buy the fans, but by his own employers.

Wenger has failed to motivate his squad. He has, in some cases, been guilty of believing too much in some players. And he has perhaps taken a gamble on occassion, when he could have spent a little money bringing in a couple of sensible additions (assuming there was any money in the first place).

The financial position of this club is far more complicated that "he has 50 million to spend" and I wish people would read things properly.

[Coney]

:lol:

I mean how would the sun know how much money we had to spend and i doubt anyone in the club would tell them a thing.

I agree - and agreed. I refer to the Sun as bullshit. They might end up writing something that is true but that would be random and accidental. A bit like Nostrodamus who predicted fuck all but is hailed by many as a great writer of things to come - the Sun without tits, maybe.

[Coney]

Anyway ignoring the kids

Wouldn't it be funny if Stan came in this week sacked Wenger and his staff and told the board they would all be replaced as soon as the lockdown ends. Then he replaced Wenger with some random bloke we don't expect and put all his own men on the board.

Or

he comes in and announces that over a vodka and a cigar him and Usmanov have kissed and made up and decided to buy the whole club outright and still sack the manager and all the staff/most of the players.

Or

as largely expected Stan will state his backing for Wenger and nothing will change and this time next year we will be having this exact same conversation but after getting knocked out of the Europa League instead of the champs.

Horseshit.



We won't make the Europa League.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I agree - and agreed. I refer to the Sun as bullshit. They might end up writing something that is true but that would be random and accidental. A bit like Nostrodamus who predicted fuck all but is hailed by many as a great writer of things to come - the Sun without tits, maybe.

i know you did, i agree with it.

[Flavs]

Its almost as if the money men know we are in decline and have freed up enough money to cover us if we don't qualify for the champs league. But there is no acknowledgement of how much revenue would be generated from the Europa league which i would assume even with weird trips to Scandinavia and Turkey would be a profit.

I can see why certain players are being told they are out as well, if we are spending £130mil on wages (the whole club not just players) then that would need to be reduced to cover the loss of champs league. And lets face it we have some 90 players at the club, of which at least 25 aren't needed and it seems 4 or 5 are unplayable.

I can see another clear-out in the summer but sadly can see educated, senior pro's, like them or not, being replaced by the kids that are out on loan. Lansbury will replace Rosicky, Miyachi will replace Arshavin, Campbell will replace Chamakh and so on. And while this might give some of you a semi on isn't this big shithole we find ourselves in because we continuously sell senior pro's and replace them with kids?

There are 2 other very valuable assets at the club who could be sacrificed should we start loss making in Theo and RvP and while i would not bat an eyelid were Walcott to leave as he is pretty much a waste of sperm the loss of RvP would blatantly be catastrophic to out club. Take his 22 league goals out this season and where would we be?

Interesting yet bad, bad times ahead.

[Flavs]

Horseshit.



We won't make the Europa League.

Well Liverpool will win a cup/finish 4th so we will take their spot in the league and Chelsea are still in the FA cup as well.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yes, there is a cash surplus of circa 50mil. And the "potential" 35mil profit on Queesland Terrace.

But;

i)

50k a week eh. Lollers.

ii)


Stop reading the headlines for starters.

They are trying to assertain whether there are/were funds, or is the club being cautious, in the event that we don't qualify for the ECL.

Of more concern, and where Wenger is being criticised, is the wage bill. And rightly so. Why have we been paying shit players so much money is the argument.

Should Wenger be held to account for his "advice" regarding the rights issue? Sorry, but he can't tell them to rebuy their sodding shares. He may have advised it was not necessary, owing to the fact that we had Cesc, Nasri and plenty of other decent players who SHOULD have won us the league. Notwithstanding the fact that he has a duty to the club, and the board (his employers), and if he advised "yes, buy your shares back to give me money" and it fucked them over, he would be crucified. Not buy the fans, but by his own employers.Wenger has failed to motivate his squad. He has, in some cases, been guilty of believing too much in some players. And he has perhaps taken a gamble on occassion, when he could have spent a little money bringing in a couple of sensible additions (assuming there was any money in the first place).

The financial position of this club is far more complicated that "he has 50 million to spend" and I wish people would read things properly.

:gp:

Yep thats a good point the likes of cesc and Nasri should have won us the league, they should not be able to get away with their failures in the team because of who they were.

[LDG]

Its almost as if the money men know we are in decline and have freed up enough money to cover us if we don't qualify for the champs league. But there is no acknowledgement of how much revenue would be generated from the Europa league which i would assume even with weird trips to Scandinavia and Turkey would be a profit.

I can see why certain players are being told they are out as well, if we are spending £130mil on wages (the whole club not just players) then that would need to be reduced to cover the loss of champs league. And lets face it we have some 90 players at the club, of which at least 25 aren't needed and it seems 4 or 5 are unplayable.

I can see another clear-out in the summer but sadly can see educated, senior pro's, like them or not, being replaced by the kids that are out on loan. Lansbury will replace Rosicky, Miyachi will replace Arshavin, Campbell will replace Chamakh and so on. And while this might give some of you a semi on isn't this big shithole we find ourselves in because we continuously sell senior pro's and replace them with kids?

There are 2 other very valuable assets at the club who could be sacrificed should we start loss making in Theo and RvP and while i would not bat an eyelid were Walcott to leave as he is pretty much a waste of sperm the loss of RvP would blatantly be catastrophic to out club. Take his 22 league goals out this season and where would we be?

Interesting yet bad, bad times ahead.

It's ok! We have 50 million to spend! or is it 55 million? Fuck it, I'm feeling positive. Call it 60 million, and with selling a few others, I make that 100 million.

[Flavs]

Of more concern, and where Wenger is being criticised, is the wage bill. And rightly so. Why have we been paying shit players so much money is the argument.

I don't buy that mate, it seems for all intents and purposes he argues over an additional £1mil transfer fee so why would he sanction such wages? Seems to me the other guy (whose name completely escapes me but he was the one who negotiated the Joel Campbell transfer very badly) and Ivan negotiate contracts and wages with players once we have agreed a fee.

Wenger might well be involved in identifying the players he wants and who gets contract renewals but i cant see him negotiating wages

However, where he is responsible is his complete misuse and mismanagement of players. Players like Squillachi, Arshavin, Park and Chamakh were all outstanding in other teams and internationally for that matter yet they are shite for us? Look at Bendtner a player of undoubted ability who cant function for us, Walcott? Vela the list goes on.

[Letters]

It's ok! We have 50 million to spend! or is it 55 million? Fuck it, I'm feeling positive. Call it 60 million, and with selling a few others, I make that 100 million.

Wow. £100m we won't spend on players. Super!

:(

[LDG]

I don't buy that mate, it seems for all intents and purposes he argues over an additional £1mil transfer fee so why would he sanction such wages? Seems to me the other guy (whose name completely escapes me but he was the one who negotiated the Joel Campbell transfer very badly) and Ivan negotiate contracts and wages with players once we have agreed a fee.

Wenger might well be involved in identifying the players he wants and who gets contract renewals but i cant see him negotiating wages

I know he probabaly doesn't directly negotiate wages, but I would bet that he has a massive say in how the wages are spread. The reason they're so high, is that we've put shit players on 50k, and RVP our captain can't get more than 100k (poor him eh). Anyway, we don't seem to pay based on quality, rather we pay everyone 50k, regardless. And that smacks of Uncle Wenger wanting all his boys to have the same.

[Flavs]

It's ok! We have 50 million to spend! or is it 55 million? Fuck it, I'm feeling positive. Call it 60 million, and with selling a few others, I make that 100 million.

Thing is as i mentioned in another thread, every league place we go down and the loss of champions league football narrows our available player pool significantly and with a manager who genuinely seems to have to be forced to spend money we could have £500mil to spend and it wouldnt matter

[Flavs]

I know he probabaly doesn't directly negotiate wages, but I would bet that he has a massive say in how the wages are spread. The reason they're so high, is that we've put shit players on 50k, and RVP our captain can't get more than 100k (poor him eh). Anyway, we don't seem to pay based on quality, rather we pay everyone 50k, regardless. And that smacks of Uncle Wenger wanting all his boys to have the same.

Well the summer clearout should free up about £500k a week on wages that's a whopping £26mil a year

[LDG]

Thing is as i mentioned in another thread, every league place we go down and the loss of champions league football narrows our available player pool significantly and with a manager who genuinely seems to have to be forced to spend money we could have £500mil to spend and it wouldnt matter

I don't buy the player pool thing. When you look at Vermaelen, Koscielny etc, I think he does alright, and they're not from the pool everyone assumes we would be buying from.

I do think we need to buy from the top pool of players....but I don't think we need loads of them.

I think you're worrying your worry pants a bit too much.

[LDG]

Well the summer clearout should free up about £500k a week on wages that's a whopping £26mil a year

Which 1/5th of should go to securing RVP....

The other 2/5ths on other renewals and the rest on any new buys?

That's their wages sorted. We just need to buy them....

[Flavs]

I don't buy the player pool thing. When you look at Vermaelen, Koscielny etc, I think he does alright, and they're not from the pool everyone assumes we would be buying from.

I do think we need to buy from the top pool of players....but I don't think we need loads of them.

I think you're worrying your worry pants a bit too much.

Well while it wouldn't effect Wenger that much as he doesn't shop at the top table anyway if he is replaced then it restricts the new guy. Essentially by not being in the champs league we lose the chance to buy any well known prospects or anyone from the big clubs who isnt a left over (like Benayoun)

The other problem we have got is that more and more rich men are making playthings of teams which means we will lose out to them as well, look at PSG and Anzhi Mahcjeiowei9jni2c2qj0n2i1 in Russia i also see Reading have been bought by a Russian billionaire no was well. Malaga are also doing this now.

While our model might be more sustainable than having a rich sugar daddy that doesnt help us here and now

[GP]

Reading :lol:

Awful shitty little town

[Flavs]

Reading :lol:

Awful shitty little town

A drunk once threatened to punch me at the train station in Reading :(

[LDG]

I don't think he'll be replaced.

Something went on last summer in the transfer window, and it was panic stations at the end, but I would has at a guess that Benayon, Arteta etc were his contigency policy if Cesc and Nasri went. I don't believe he thought he would lose both....but he did, and therefore plan b was put into operation.

IF we can clear the decks in the summer, I think there's a good chance that there will be a marquee signing for the fans. And a couple of additions along the lines of Verm's / Kos etc.

The rest, as you say will be the youngsters filling in.

We do have players at our club who are top quality. Hang on to RVP. We have Wilshire, Kos, Verms, AOC, Song etc etc...they are good players. We just need to supliment them with a couple of top draw players.

How do we do that?

It's not going to be the 50/60/100 million we supposedly have to spend (lol), it'll be from selling (Theo?) using a bit of the cash surplus, and hopefully getting rid of the deadwood.

And we'll still make the Champs league anyway, so....

[Flavs]

The thing i don't understand and i know Arseblog goes on about this is that if we are so financially sound and have such a sustainable model why aren't we identifying teams who are on the brink and exploiting them?

Valencia are the perfect example, they are fucked financially, even the sales of David Silva, David Villa, Mata and so on has still left them in a huge hole why don't we pick and choose their players and make them offers they cant refuse. Banega* Soldado and Piatti would all make us better and this example can be followed across Europe. There are teams in Greece, Italy, Spain, Turkey who are all broke and need money. Why not take the bully boy approach and take our pick.

*dont know if anyone saw the story that Eva Banega had ran over his own foot after leaving his handbrake off on his car :pal:

[GP]

A drunk once threatened to punch me at the train station in Reading :(

We don't take kindly to your type around here :angry:

[Flavs]

We don't take kindly to your type around here :angry:

People with all their own teeth?

[LDG]

The thing i don't understand and i know Arseblog goes on about this is that if we are so financially sound and have such a sustainable model why aren't we identifying teams who are on the brink and exploiting them?

Valencia are the perfect example, they are fucked financially, even the sales of David Silva, David Villa, Mata and so on has still left them in a huge hole why don't we pick and choose their players and make them offers they cant refuse. Banega* Soldado and Piatti would all make us better and this example can be followed across Europe. There are teams in Greece, Italy, Spain, Turkey who are all broke and need money. Why not take the bully boy approach and take our pick.

*dont know if anyone saw the story that Eva Banega had ran over his own foot after leaving his handbrake off on his car :pal:

I honestly believe that there is so much going on behind the scenes that we have no real insight into.

There is MASSIVE change afoot in the board room. There ARE financial considerations, and there is the vortex we got sucked into off the back of last season.

This year has clearly been about patching up holes. It's bloody obvious. And all with the wrangling behind the scenes.

Wenger has ballsed up on the pitch. He has failed to do his job as manager by getting his players organised and motivated. That's fairly obvious to all. But we're taking plasters and salotape and plugging the gaps. That's why we bought Arteta and Benayoun. The Park signing is very weird, but he cost fuck all, so I can't make my mind up on that one.

Santos was a good buy, as was Mertesecker. AOC is quality, and Gervinho hasn't (in my eyes) done a bad job for his first season.

We've been let down by injury to: Santos, Jenkinson, Sagna, Gibbs, Kos, Verms, Djourou, Coq, Merts....I mean, come on....taht's just mean. And not entirely the fault of the club, Wenger, our finances or medical team. It's just horrific luck.

More's to the point, good players such as Arshavin have let the team down.

Henry. Lovely to see, but again, a sticking plaster.

This is not about AW refusing to spend.

There is so much more to it than that.

[Cripps_orig]

The Arsenal Supporters’ Trust (AST) have demanded answers over the club's failure to fully re-invest the £50 million they made from player sales last summer.

The 3,000 strong group held a meeting on Monday evening and will put forward their findings to the club.

Amongst other issues brought up at the meeting were the direction of the club and Arsene Wenger’s future, although the AST deny holding a vote on whether the Frenchman should remain in charge.

They also discussed the club’s wage bill and the 6.5 per cent increase on season ticket prices, despite the fact Arsenal are facing a seventh season without a trophy.

“It [the meeting] was lively, passionate and concerned,” Tim Payton, spokesman for the AST, told the Daily Mirror. “Arsenal fans are not happy and they showed a lot of spirit.

“We will ask at the end of the season if Arsene Wenger is the right man for the job but during the season we will always back the manager and support the team.

“But questions need to be asked. We had a summer profit of £50 million on player trading. [We need to] figure out whether there was money to invest and where we might be going.”

Payton revealed that the Gunners' wage bill is another concern for fans, as is the possibility of missing out on Champions League qualification this season.

He continued: “We spend so much on wages. This year we are going to spend 40% more than Spurs, it’s a £130 million wage bill. Are we overpaying a lot of players that we then can’t move on?

“A worry for the fans is that next year they will be paying for Thursday night football [in the Europe League] rather than Champions League they’ve been used to.”

The AST also want a freeze on season-ticket prices and discussed whether a change of manager would be a good move.

Payton added: “Last year there was a collapse of the four trophies, then straight after, there was a 6.5% rise on top of the most expensive tickets in the world.

"I think they will probably keep prices flat depending on what competition we are playing in next year – hopefully the Champions League.

“It’s a very legitimate question that the Arsenal Supporters’ Trust is asking – Are Arsenal’s football set-up and Arsene Wenger still right for taking the club forward?”

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/02/21/2919070/arsenal-fans-demand-answers-on-lack-of-signings-at

Wenger would be proud

[Flavs]

The only investment we need in the club is a way of keeping everyone fit and a manager who knows what tactics and man motivation are

[AKBapologist]

Arsenal spend £10mill on loyalty bonuses and agent fees | Hamstrung for years by Arsene?
February 21st, 2012 by Pedro & filed under Uncategorized.

Good morning Grovers! I attended the monthly AST meeting last night to find out what the low down was in the world of Arsenal. Truth be told, there wasn’t a whole load of new information if you’ve followed the snippets we’ve shared from them over the last year, but that didn’t matter. Yesterday for me was more about judging fan sentiment.

I remember the first one of those meeting I attended, any mention of the coaches future was met with jeers. Last night, I said something along the lines of…

‘Last year we all celebrated the arrival of a CEO who was essentially hands off. We actively encouraged an owner who’d be business as usual. A year on we’re critiquing him for not forcing the hand of the manager in the transfer market. Should the highest paid man at the club need coerce him into buying players? Should we not be questioning whether that sort of manager is right for us?’

Then I was asked what I’d do…

‘I’ve said since last summer he should be sacked’

Not one boo. Not one jeer. Just focus on the question. That’s how far we’ve come.

As for other snippets…

Arsenal are asking for fan opinion on raising prices. They’re also canvassing on the 7 cup matches and whether people want them. Many said they wouldn’t want to attend Europa Cup games. I say that’s a bit poor. I’d go, regardless and I wouldn’t want those games removed.

The AST pushing for home credits reward scheme. Apparently 400 club levellers used their ticket once or less last year. Truly disgraceful, but again, a worry for a club so dependent on expensive seats.

Arsenal have the joint highest ticket revenue in Europe. I’m pretty sure we’re up there with United.

Only 25% of people take up the option of a new season ticket when offered.

The Premiership sells so well because the grounds are 92% capacity.

As of June we’ll have £160mill cash in the bank. Once again it was reiterated that it’s not for spending. Well, not all of it… We pay wages out of that and it acts as cash flow for the season.

Wages are up to £130million. Massive eh?

Predicted cash surplus was thought to be £60mill. Arsenal did however pay out a lot in agents fees and loyalty bonuses. Yep, Thomas Vermaelen got a loyalty bonus. Shouldn’t it have been the other way round? Bribing players to stay… cheeky. I wish my work gave me a loyalty bonus after a year out sick.

Champions League when it’s all said and done is worth £45mill. A mix of TV, gate reciepts and commercial deals. The big question is where that cash comes from if we lose out?

The AST reckon we have two years of float. £50mill this year and £35mill for next years Queensland Property deal.

As we’ve reported before, there is at least £25mill worth of dross in the wage bill. We can’t move them on. This has been compounded over the years by a trick Wenger uses to get around the banks stipulation he must invest 25% of transfer proceeds back into the squad. Instead if buying players, he signs his current ones up to new inflated deals.

We’ve known about this for a while. I find it utterly disgraceful this has been allowed to carry on.

The fact is, we can afford mega wages. Wenger doesn’t have a wage cap. He has an amount of money to play with. The fact he chooses to give JD £50k, Diaby £60k and Denilson £60k directly hinders his ability to pay Robin £160k pw.

United don’t pay their fringe players anywhere near what we do. Wes Brown was on £18k pw, he knew he was part of something special though. We have players who are fat off big salaries. Who play for PAYE not glory.

It’s a horrible mess people, it really is.

The story of FFP came up as well. Nigel Phillips, like many of our readers believe the club use the ruling to hide behind. City have blatantly breached the rules a number of times and nothing has happened. As have many clubs. The irony of it all is that if any club is in danger of breaching the rules, it’s us if we exit the Champions League. Our wage bill will be unsustainable if we’re out of Europe.

It was also highlighted that the average age of the board is 73… hence the stagnation and lack of ambition post stadium build.

There was also the absolute refusal of the club to allow R&W onto the board. It won’t happen. What people suspect might occur is that Stan could sell up if things get too spicy. He’s never sold an asset, but he’s never bought overseas. If he isn’t welcome at his own Franchise… Sorry I mean club… He could sell out for a massive profit. He’s too old to be in it for the long term. Unless his son Josh is a major league soccer fan.

Interesting that Matt Scott of the Telegraph believes Wenger has made himself unsackable. His squad is too full and too highly paid to do anything with over the next few years. He reckons no top manager would touch the job.

You’ll hear more from him in a couple of weeks time… in your ears if you get what I mean.

Some other snippets

The club improved revenue by £10mill last season. £3mill of that was tour money. £4mill was season ticket price hikes. Yet the CEO landed a £600k bonus! Errr… where is the outrage?
We could have a £100million rights issue and beat FFP if it went against the stadium debt. The reason we won’t do that is because Wenger wouldn’t spend the money. Previously it was because the other board members wouldn’t put their hands in their pockets. They only took out of the club…
Average attendance to the games these days is in the low fifties.
We have 71 paid professional on the wage bill (we had 48 when we moved to the Emirates). We also fund Nik B and Denilson. We laugh at City for doing the same with Adebayor and Bridge, we’re just as bad… on lower salaries of course!
The board have got rich off the self sustaining business model.
We earn £14mill from short sponsor / manufacture. Liverpool earn £40mill
Nina booted from board for having a Starbucks with Usmanov people.
David Dein spends more time with Wenger than Gazidis. If he is spending that much time with Wenger, it begs the question what the hell he’s talking to him about? ‘Errr, Arsene… Squillaci. What the hell were you thinking?’
Stadium debt is £220mill
When Dein was booted from the board, Wenger was promised he was in charge. Hence why he was able to pick his own CEO.
Wenger decides player value, hence why so many deals fall through. That’s why Mata isn’t wearing an Arsenal shirt.
Club runs at break even.
There are only 1200 shareholders left. Geoff being one of them. He’s a rarity… he didn’t sell out like so many did.
Final fun fact of the evening… There are more Arsenal fans in Nigerian than there are in the UK. Wow! I’ve always said we get a bundle of traffic from the home of Kanu… I didn’t realise the extent of support!

Right… that’s your monthly round up. If you want to join up and have your say, sign up here… well worth the cash. If you want to read their analysis of the financials, check here.
Nigerians :bow:
http://le-grove.co.uk/2012/02/21/arsenal-spend-10mill-on-loyalty-bonuses-and-agent-fees-hamstrung-for-years-by-arsene/

[LDG]

What an awful article.

[Coney]

i know you did, i agree with it.

Arguing with people on GW. :rose:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Some shocking stuff in that piece.

The board are money taking ****, Wenger is the reason why weve done fuck all transfers, we could still fall foul of ffp rules if we dont make the CL, paying too much money to shi players, etc.

:ilt:

[KSE Comedy Club]

What an awful article.Why?

[Grebbo]

Nigerians :bow:
http://le-grove.co.uk/2012/02/21/arsenal-spend-10mill-on-loyalty-bonuses-and-agent-fees-hamstrung-for-years-by-arsene/

Good read. Thanks for posting.

[Coney]

Well Liverpool will win a cup/finish 4th so we will take their spot in the league and Chelsea are still in the FA cup as well.

I didn't think you got that for finishing 8th.

[Flavs]

I didn't think you got that for finishing 8th.

:rolleyes:

[LDG]

Why?

It's written very poorly, and for a big blogger like that, you'd expect a degree more reflection and objectivity on the big points.

He's used the snippets to paint his own picture, as he did with his first podcast a few weeks back, which was truly awful.

The AST report is far more insightful, and provides much more basis for debate and discussion....as I'm sure there was at the meeting yesterday.

[KSE Comedy Club]

It's written very poorly, and for a big blogger like that, you'd expect a degree more reflection and objectivity on the big points.

He's used the snippets to paint his own picture, as he did with his first podcast a few weeks back, which was truly awful.

The AST report is far more insightful, and provides much more basis for debate and discussion....as I'm sure there was at the meeting yesterday.Im sure he's just posting the main points for the blog.

There's nothing wrong with it.

He was at the meeting, we werent, but he has revealed more about what was said than the AST have.

[LDG]

Im sure he's just posting the main points for the blog.

There's nothing wrong with it.

He was at the meeting, we werent, but he has revealed more about what was said than the AST have.

No. what the AST have done, is produce a report based on best-guess, which is well thought out and constructive. It raises genuine questions, but doesn't look to develop an agenda.

What this chap has done, is written down all the bits that suit his line of thinking, and impart them to his readers, rough-shod, and in a way that shows little understanding of what he's typing from his notes and sketches.

[KSE Comedy Club]

No. what the AST have done, is produce a report based on best-guess, which is well thought out and constructive. It raises genuine questions, but doesn't look to develop an agenda.

What this chap has done, is written down all the bits that suit his line of thinking, and impart them to his readers, rough-shod, and in a way that shows little understanding of what he's typing from his notes and sketches.Oh I see.

Basically, you dont like it so its wrong.

Ok.

[Flavs]

Oh I see.

You dont like it so its wrong.

Ok.

:lol:

got the painters in?

[KSE Comedy Club]

:lol:

got the painters in?:rolleyes:

[KSE Comedy Club]

The AST piece is their analysis of the financials.

The legrove blog is just telling us the rest of what went on at the meeting and what was discussed.

:shrug:

[Flavs]

Grumpy bugger :console:

[Flavs]

It is shit though, some of the sweeping generalisations he uses are shocking and instead of presenting a balanced and objective piece he has laden it, not very cleverly, with his own opinion and bias.

He's also fat

[KSE Comedy Club]

Grumpy bugger :console:;)

[Flavs]

Anyway ignoring "dat shizzle" does anyone actually expect anything to change at the club?

[GP]

No, not a damn thing.

[KSE Comedy Club]

It is shit though, some of the sweeping generalisations he uses are shocking and instead of presenting a balanced and objective piece he has laden it, not very cleverly, with his own opinion and bias.

He's also fatI think you have to accept that sometimes people arent award winning journo's.

Its a blog piece that tells us what went on at the meeting.

These were things that were discussed and said by the people who attended it.

My guess is that there are more than a few things in there that people dont want to hear or believe and so choose to rubbish the article itself by how it is written, and probably next, what font was used.

[GP]

It's not written in Comic Sans, so I didn't read it.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Anyway ignoring "dat shizzle" does anyone actually expect anything to change at the club?Nothing at all.

Unless the board, Kronke and wenger have an epiphany that shows them that the fans really do matter to the club and are more important than they currently think, then it will be business as usual.

[KSE Comedy Club]

It's not written in Comic Sans, so I didn't read it.:lol:

[Flavs]

Nothing at all.

Unless the board, Kronke and wenger have an epiphany that shows them that the fans really do matter to the club and are more important than they currently think, then it will be business as usual.

If it stays as is i think we should boycott the emirates cup

[Letters]

If it stays as is i think we should boycott the emirates

Innit.

And get some T-shirts made.

[Xhaka Can’t]

He pretty much started his blog declaring his bias and then made a number of points all justifying in his mind why he is right to hold his bias.

From a perspective of trying to understand what is going on, it is about as helpful as asking Arsene Wenger.

[Marc Overmars]

Anyway ignoring "dat shizzle" does anyone actually expect anything to change at the club?

Possibly, given the voice of disapproval has never been this loud before, coupled with potentially missing out on the CL, it's uncharted territory for the club over the past 15 years. If nothing changes now then frankly it never will under this regime.

[LDG]

Oh I see.

Basically, you dont like it so its wrong.

Ok.

Well no. I'm sure you don't read much I've written on here (and why would you), but my view is pretty clear on the whole fiasco.

I hold Wenger wholy accountable for the team, tactics, poor motivation etc etc etc.

I hold the board responsible for money. They run the club / business.

What the AST are trying to establish is what is going on behind the scenes, both as fans and shareholders. They have made a stab at projecting where we are financially, based on some pretty sound reasoning, and with knowledge on how Arsenal PLC produce their accounts. And on that basis, given that they don't know for sure, have raised some valid questions, which they are hoping that the club will answer.

Some of that is directed at the manager. Some of that is directed at the owner and the board.

What they haven't done is draw conclusions from it, as they don't have the answers. And as they, as a valid organisation can't proclaim to have the answers, they haven't set any agenda, and furthermore, have not sort to advocate any action regarding the manager. Where as Le Grove's Blogger has, without any kind of objectivity.

I've no problem with people asserting their views, (and don't think for one second I'm in the Arsene is God fanclub) but I do expect someone with a wide readership to show some sort of reasoning, in a well constructed piece, and at least back it up with some evidence.

[LDG]

Possibly, given the voice of disapproval has never been this loud before, coupled with potentially missing out on the CL, it's uncharted territory for the club over the past 15 years. If nothing changes now then frankly it never will under this regime.

Pretty much.

[LDG]

He pretty much started his blog declaring his bias and then made a number of points all justifying in his mind why he is right to hold his bias.

From a perspective of trying to understand what is going on, it is about as helpful as asking Arsene Wenger.

Yup.

And that first bit really annoyed me. "When I first attended....blah blah....and I raised a question (look at me!!!!!) blah blah...."

I'd love to see what actually went on, and also know when his first meeting was.

This is the bloke who interviewed that twat "who once wrote a book on Arsenal" who believes himself to be Arsene Wengers closest aide....it was awful.

Writing pieces like that do more harm than good when there is a wide readership, because they don't have the facts.

[Flavs]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17116060

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Possibly, given the voice of disapproval has never been this loud before, coupled with potentially missing out on the CL, it's uncharted territory for the club over the past 15 years. If nothing changes now then frankly it never will under this regime.


Well our Chairman says missing out on the CL is not a big deal. But the manager seemss to desperately want it for some reason and believes its vital. The way i see it unless the manager and board reslove what ever issue/s they seem to have nothing will change with all these at the helm off the club.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Should Wenger be held to account for his "advice" regarding the rights issue? Sorry, but he can't tell them to rebuy their sodding shares. He may have advised it was not necessary, owing to the fact that we had Cesc, Nasri and plenty of other decent players who SHOULD have won us the league.
Let me try my best to understand your thinking here. The Usmanov proposal was put forward on the 15th June 2009. The season was over with man u winning their third EPL in a row. They did that with the help one of the most coveted players in the world, Rooney, oh yeah, and reigning PFA/UEFA/FIFA world best player in the world, Ronaldo. They had just been beaten in their 2nd CL final in a row.

On the other hand, we the mighty Arsenal had just (mainly thanks to signing Arshavin) managed 4th in the league (18pts behind the champions, 11pts behind 3rd place), our 4th trophyless season in a row, with the acclaimed world beaters you've just mentioned. To make matters worse we were going to face a 100 million shortfall on our property project. Oh and BTW 3 days before Usmanov's proposal we had just woken up to the sobering news that the main threat to us winning the league had got an 80 million instant cash injection by selling Ronaldo; no one knew how they would spend their money. But even with this backdrop I'm sure your reasoning makes sense.


Notwithstanding the fact that he has a duty to the club, and the board (his employers), and if he advised "yes, buy your shares back to give me money" and it fucked them over, he would be crucified. Not buy the fans, but by his own employers.

At least here you make an attempt to realise who the man was really worried about when he gave that advice.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Here is an "attempt" to cull information from a "balanced" "unbiased" source.

www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2009/jul/10/arsenal-theo-walcott?cat=sport&type=article

[LDG]

Let me try my best to understand your thinking here. The Usmanov proposal was put forward on the 15th June 2009. The season was over with man u winning their third EPL in a row. They did that with the help one of the most coveted players in the world, Rooney, oh yeah, and reigning PFA/UEFA/FIFA world best player in the world, Ronaldo. They had just been beaten in their 2nd CL final in a row.

On the other hand, we the mighty Arsenal had just (mainly thanks to signing Arshavin) managed 4th in the league (18pts behind the champions, 11pts behind 3rd place), our 4th trophyless season in a row, with the acclaimed world beaters you've just mentioned. To make matters worse we were going to face a 100 million shortfall on our property project. Oh and BTW 3 days before Usmanov's proposal we had just woken up to the sobering news that the main threat to us winning the league had got an 80 million instant cash injection by selling Ronaldo; no one knew how they would spend their money. But even with this backdrop I'm sure your reasoning makes sense.


At least here you make an attempt to realise who the man was really worried about when he gave that advice.

And they SHOULD have won us the league that following season....we were right up there and bottled it.

That they didn't, is why we're all pissed off, as with last season....when we SHOULD have won the league.

It wasn't the quality of player out there. It was the mentality.

Why would he have wanted the board to stump up 100 Million quid, if he believed the team was capable of doing what it SHOULD have done.

Fuckin hell. Hindsight is a great thing.

[Letters]

And they SHOULD have won us the league that following season....we were right up there and bottled it.

That they didn't, is why we're all pissed off, as with last season....when we SHOULD have won the league.

It wasn't the quality of player out there. It was the mentality.

Why would he have wanted the board to stump up 100 Million quid, if he believed the team was capable of doing what it SHOULD have done.

Fuckin hell. Hindsight is a great thing.

Project Youth wasn't the unmitigated disaster that it's been made out to be.
At least twice we've had sides capable of winning the league. We've failed because of a weak mentality and possibly a lack of experience.
Had Wenger mixed Project Youth with one or two (not 6 or 7) experienced, quality players things may have been very different.
Frustrating.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

But if anyone would prefer here's my biased summary.


The second most obvious difficulty with the rejection of the
rights issue is that Arsenal could have set an example had they
given it serious consideration. It is important to understand what a rights issue actually is. It is an issue of new shares to the existing shareholders, principally Usmanov, Kroenke and Fiszman,
who would pay Arsenal directly for those new shares. All the other, smaller shareholders
would also have the right to buy more shares, some new ones
could also be created for fans or investors to buy. Care could have
been taken not to give Usmanov or Kroenke a much larger stake, and to protect the stakes of
the smaller shareholders.

The virtue of this way of raising money for a football club – or any company - is that the shareholders pay money directly in to buy the shares. Pure cash goes to the club's bank account for it to spend as it thinks wisest. It is not debt; the shareholders are not lending the money, as happens at many other football clubs, which are so in hock to
their "benefactors."

Arsenal like to think of themselves as a model
club, embodying traditional virtues. A rights issue, in which
the rich men in charge actually invest real money, no strings
attached, for their club to spend, would have set an example to the clubs existing beyond
their means on loans from "sugar daddies," or, worse, those like Manchester United and
Liverpool, whose north American owners loaded the clubs with debt to pay for the
costs of their own takeovers.

The other problem Arsenal have with rejecting the rights issue is
that three longstanding
shareholders have recently made multi-millions personally
out of selling Arsenal shares,
but not a penny of it has gone
into the club. Usmanov himself paid £75m to David Dein for
the former vice-chairman's
stake, which Dein bought in the
1980s and early 1990s for a
fingernail of that sum. Fiszman
made £42.5m personally – tax
free because he is resident in
Switzerland – by selling an eight
per cent slice of Arsenal to
Kroenke in April. Richard Carr,
holder of shares which were in
his family for generations,
made more than £40m when
he sold 4,839 shares to Kroenke
for "£8,500 per share and
£10,500 per share," according
to Arsenal's official
announcement, on May 1.

All these millionaires, including
Fiszman and Carr who are
directors, custodians of the
club, have made many more
millions for themselves out of
selling their Arsenal shares. That
makes the board's argument
that the shareholders, including
Fiszman, do not need to pay
money into the club, a little
more difficult.

It might, though, make more
sense if the Arsenal board spell
those reasons out. The idea that
the club could simply not use,
at all, £150m, does not quite
wash. And the club's ordinary
supporters, not many of whom
are tax exile multi-millionaires,
are being asked to pay some of
the highest ticket prices in
football, while the rich men in
the boardroom solemnly
maintain a firm public stance
that they should not have to put
any money into the club at all.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Project Youth wasn't the unmitigated disaster that it's been made out to be.
At least twice we've had sides capable of winning the league. We've failed because of a weak mentality and possibly a lack of experience.
Had Wenger mixed Project Youth with one or two (not 6 or 7) experienced, quality players things may have been very different.
Frustrating.

Yep, Its only because no trophy's were won people made it out to be worse than it was. Like you say the talent was there, the mentality was not.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

@ LDG

The funny thing is fundamentally I agree with you. I have said it many times over the past years and I will say it again, we have always had and continue to have players capable of winning the league. But I accept logically or at least based on empirical evidence, my belief is not logical and has not been for a while.
The facts have continued to point to the fact that the clubs who invest more in their squad do better than us. Bookies who rely on complicated facts that we can't even dream of, have not given us a realistic chance in donkey years and they have all been right.

Again sharing your view that the quality of our players is not the issue, how does investing more in the squad hurt us in anyway? how does doing this not help our cause?

The only thing completely illogical about everything we discuss is the managers consistent refusal to accept using more resources ( which we can conveniently afford) to achieve our aim.

And BTW if you look at it properly your own argument was the one that was entirely based on hindsight.

And they SHOULD have won us
the league that following
season....we were right up
there and bottled it.
That they didn't, is why we're all
pissed off, as with last
season....when we SHOULD
have won the league.

[Marc Overmars]

Project youth was an exercise that only served to line the pockets of the board.

[LDG]

@ LDG

The funny thing is fundamentally I agree with you. I have said it many times over the past years and I will say it again, we have always had and continue to have players capable of winning the league. But I accept logically or at least based on empirical evidence, my belief is not logical and has not been for a while.
The facts have continued to point to the fact that the clubs who invest more in their squad do better than us. Bookies who rely on complicated facts that we can't even dream of, have not given us a realistic chance in donkey years and they have all been right.

Again sharing your view that the quality of our players is not the issue, how does investing more in the squad hurt us in anyway? how does doing this not help our cause?

The only thing completely illogical about everything we discuss is the managers consistent refusal to accept using more resources ( which we can conveniently afford) to achieve our aim.

And BTW if you look at it properly your own argument was the one that was entirely based on hindsight.

Dude, firstly, you've misread me a little. I was using the hindsight thing to highlight what I was saying anyway. I.e. we may well have done things differently if we'd known how it turned out. I wasn't basing that comment soley on what you'd posted....

The whole reasoning behind what I was saying goes back that point in time, and to the argument by some that "Wenger decided" that we shouldn't have a rights issue (which of course is nonsense). As far as I'm aware, he was asked his opinion, purely based on funding for players....not related to anything you have eloquently put above.

And as far as the player funding goes, to a degree (and I we all know about the collapse etc) Wenger was onto something, in that we didn't need to spend millions....and like we've both said, the mental weaknesses etc cocked up what could have been. Which is very much his fault if you ask me.

What I was defending, was the notion put accross by some, that Wenger turned down 100 Million, and we could have had Messi type arguments....

I'm not saying that we haven't fucked up. I'm not saying our manager has done a good job (he's clearly made a lot of mistakes)....I've been berrating him for the last three seasons for not building on the success up to Christmas by strengthening in January, for instance....I'm just saying that he believed, and honestly at that, that he had a squad capable of winning trophies. And to a certain degree he was right....though it was doomed to failure.

I dunno if that makes more sense? Meh.

[Power n Glory]

Yup.

And that first bit really annoyed me. "When I first attended....blah blah....and I raised a question (look at me!!!!!) blah blah...."

I'd love to see what actually went on, and also know when his first meeting was.

This is the bloke who interviewed that twat "who once wrote a book on Arsenal" who believes himself to be Arsene Wengers closest aide....it was awful.

Writing pieces like that do more harm than good when there is a wide readership, because they don't have the facts.

It's a blog and his personal opinion. It's not meant to be objective, it's an opinion piece and people read for that purpose. You can agree or disagree but it wasn't written simply to inform. If you want objectivity, read an official report or find something written in the BBC or Metro.

The article makes a good few points and it sounds like some are having a hard time dealing with it. Especially the point about Gazidis. It's not his job to advise Wenger on who to buy. He's increasing revenue as seen and where it's spent is up to Wenger and as seen, he'd rather extend contracts and pay loyalty bonuses instead of signing new players. The money is there to be spent and if the Board were that tight fisted, they'd never allow such a huge wage bill which is a long term drain on our expense.

[LDG]

It's a blog and his personal opinion. It's not meant to be objective, it's an opinion piece and people read for that purpose. You can agree or disagree but it wasn't written simply to inform. If you want objectivity, read an official report or find something written in the BBC or Metro.

The article makes a good few points and it sounds like some are having a hard time dealing with it. Especially the point about Gazidis. It's not his job to advise Wenger on who to buy. He's increasing revenue as seen and where it's spent is up to Wenger and as seen, he'd rather extend contracts and pay loyalty bonuses instead of signing new players. The money is there to be spent and if the Board were that tight fisted, they'd never allow such a huge wage bill which is a long term drain on our expense.

What's all this nonsense about having a hard time dealing with it?? Not at all. If all of that turns out to be correct, I'll rip the fucker to pieces myself.

And my personal opinion, is that this guy is a very poor blogger / writer.

[Power n Glory]

What's all this nonsense about having a hard time dealing with it?? Not at all. If all of that turns out to be correct, I'll rip the fucker to pieces myself.

And my personal opinion, is that this guy is a very poor blogger / writer.

What's been written on Le Grove and what emerged at the AST meeting has been written and debated on here for some time but has often been met with resistance. Gazidis and Stan shouldn't have to tell Wenger how to do his job.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Ok LDG, it's kind of getting blurred what we agree/disagree on, so I'm just going to put it out there what I blame Wenger for.

Like I said earlier, under Arsene Wenger I believe we have always had players capable of winning the league, but I honestly don't believe we have a top coach capable of winning anything with these caliber of players. If confused let me put it to you like this, in all the 4 competitions we compete in I always see our main opposition as the top 4 in the EPL. IMO we have not had a squad considerably better than any of theirs for a long time. Infact I believe our squad is usually weaker... but that doesn't change the fact that we have players capable of winning the league seeing as we nominally we compete against 15 other weaker clubs, or even a cup if the other big 4 have been knocked out by someone else. So with the set of players Wenger has chosen to surround himself with and me not rating him as a coach, I don't think we could or will ever win anything with him around. A reason I want him out ASAP.

Now though I rate him as a poor top coach (I mean this is a man that wasn't able to beat Mourinho in one competitive game), are you suggesting I rate him so poorly that I do not think he would win a single competition with the likes of Messi or Ronaldo around- if I did, that would just be disrespectful and unfair of me as a fan of the game.

So simply put, I blame the manager for not having the kind of players that he can effectively use to win a trophy. I blame the manager for consistently overrating his abilities and putting unnecessary self-imposed limitations on the quality of his team. I blame the manager for not trying hard enough and doing everything in his managerial capacity to compete and compete to win , which every top manger in the game does.

Now lets say AW had always done everything I blamed him for- got players in that would enable him to win (no matter the cost) and competed so intensely that he jeopardized all our resources and long term stability- lets say we'd won trophies or didn't- and then we got into a precarious financial position where the long-term future of the club was threatened, guess who I would blame for allowing that to happen, the board.

It's the simple theory of checks and balances, separation of powers or the tug of war that must exist in top clubs, big corproate organisations and governments all over the world to ensure they push on. Our problem in Arsenal is that the separation does not exist anymore, it was murdered- and I blame the two sole beneficiaries of this act, AW and this geriatric board; and unfortunately a lot of goonerdom for not putting up a fight.

[Ollie the Optimist]

if i read right from blogs around and tweets from people at the meeting, if we dont get champions league, we fall foul of FFP rules as we are making a loss? now if thats right then thats disgusting, one because if we are getting punished and city are ok then there is something very wrong in football to allow that but two and more importantly, what the fuck are the board doing? how they can they spout all this bullshit about our finances yet allow this to happen if we dont get CL football.


again this is just what i read and think i understand, i could be wrong but it was what was being suggested.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Despite this being a rare opportunity to post one of my favorite quotes, it adequately explains why Switzerland are yet to win the world cup or diddly squat ;)


In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced
Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. ”

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

if i read right from blogs around and tweets from people at the meeting, if we dont get champions league, we fall foul of FFP rules as we are making a loss? now if thats right then thats disgusting, one because if we are getting punished and city are ok then there is something very wrong in football to allow that but two and more importantly, what the fuck are the board doing? how they can they spout all this bullshit about our finances yet allow this to happen if we dont get CL football.


again this is just what i read and think i understand, i could be wrong but it was what was being suggested.

I haven't read up that much on them but I'm guessing we'd only fall foul if we started making losses and kept. our wage bill what UEFA would consider artificially to high i.e. not proportionate to either revenue or profit ( not sure what benchmark Uefa is using). Hope it helps.

[fakeyank]

if i read right from blogs around and tweets from people at the meeting, if we dont get champions league, we fall foul of FFP rules as we are making a loss? now if thats right then thats disgusting, one because if we are getting punished and city are ok then there is something very wrong in football to allow that but two and more importantly, what the fuck are the board doing? how they can they spout all this bullshit about our finances yet allow this to happen if we dont get CL football.


again this is just what i read and think i understand, i could be wrong but it was what was being suggested.

Move to Emirates :rose:

Idea to move to Emirates- AW :doh:

David Dein :bow: Always rated him

[Niall_Quinn]

A drunk once threatened to punch me at the train station in Reading :(

Because you tried to steal my shopping cart full of cans which it had taken me weeks to collect.

[Niall_Quinn]

Anyway ignoring "dat shizzle" does anyone actually expect anything to change at the club?

Yes. Denilson will come back.

[Niall_Quinn]

Innit.

And get some T-shirts made.

The T-shirts could work. Especially wet ones for the women. At least it would be some entertainment, in most cases. I guess moose wouldn't be allowed in on that day, which is fair enough.

[Niall_Quinn]

Project youth was an exercise that only served to line the pockets of the board build the stadium.

Please stick with the approved story.

[LDG]

Bloody politics. No wonder no attention is paid to on-the-field matters.

http://angryofislington.com/2012/02/20/alisher-usmanov-and-his-30-arsenal-shareholding-take-2/

http://news.arseblog.com/2012/02/usmanov-gobbles-up-rangers-shares/

[Coney]

Despite this being a rare opportunity to post one of my favorite quotes, it adequately explains why Switzerland are yet to win the world cup or diddly squat ;)


In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced
Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. ”

Technical point of order: The Swiss did not produce the cuckoo clock. That was the krauts. :geek:
Second point: The Swiss hate people suggesting they invented the cuckoo clock.
Third point: I don't like the Swiss, so I refer to the cuckoo clock whenever I meet one.

[Fats]

and the knife?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Despite this being a rare opportunity to post one of my favorite quotes, it adequately explains why Switzerland are yet to win the world cup or diddly squat ;)

They produced Federer tbf.

[Coney]

They produced Federer tbf.

Exactly - he hasn't won the world cup so he must be a tosser.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Technical point of order: The Swiss did not produce the cuckoo clock. That was the krauts. :geek:
Second point: The Swiss hate people suggesting they invented the cuckoo clock.
Third point: I don't like the Swiss, so I refer to the cuckoo clock whenever I meet one.

If only you'd told me all this when when I was still dating Mirka.... now I got see her everywhere on the arms of that grinning has-been....... on second thought, I'm not sure I mind :)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Bloody politics. No wonder no attention is paid to on-the-field matters.

http://angryofislington.com/2012/02/20/alisher-usmanov-and-his-30-arsenal-shareholding-take-2/

http://news.arseblog.com/2012/02/usmanov-gobbles-up-rangers-shares/

Good links again :good:

You'd think having 2 flushed Billionaires fighting tooth and nail for your recently trophy-starved club would be every fans wet dream in this current financial climate.

I hate to say this but we kind of suck and we suck real hard... oh and you already know the people I blame.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Good links again :good:

You'd think having 2 flushed Billionaires fighting tooth and nail for your recently trophy-starved club would be every fans wet dream in this current financial climate.

I hate to say this but we kind of suck and we suck real hard... oh and you already know the people I blame.Brilliant move by usmanov tbh.

I wonder whether the mystery buyer could be someone buying shares for usmanov to buy later?

One thing does remain clear is that usmanov is desperate to take ownership of arsenal, and IMO he would be the best option we could have going forward.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Brilliant move by usmanov tbh.

I wonder whether the mystery buyer could be someone buying shares for usmanov to buy later?

One thing does remain clear is that usmanov is desperate to take ownership of arsenal, and IMO he would be the best option we could have going forward.

Problem is does Stan want to Sell or will he wait till he makes a profit on his investment.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Problem is does Stan want to Sell or will he wait till he makes a profit on his investment.This is the big question.

Part of me thinks and hopes that he decides to sell up this summer as the lockdown agreement finishes. He could tell the board to fuck off, then sell up to jabba and make a tidy £160-180m profit. I do wonder if this may have been his plan all along - fingers crossed!

Krone is under pressure to inject some cash into one of his US teams, so doing this would be a good option for him tbh.
Then we can have a proper billionaire owner who isnt afraid to spend some cash an get us winning again.

[fakeyank]

This is the big question.Part of me thinks and hopes that he decides to sell up this summer as the lockdown agreement finishes. He could tell the board to fuck off, then sell up to jabba and make a tidy £160-180m profit. I do wonder if this may have been his plan all along - fingers crossed!Krone is under pressure to inject some cash into one of his US teams, so doing this would be a good option for him tbh.Then we can have a proper billionaire owner who isnt afraid to spend some cash an get us winning again.

We still need a manager who will buy with that money

[server too busy!]

Surely as wages is always factored into budget for player puchases, the huge cull we get at the end of every season would free up a lot of money. Also getting rid of Squid, Arsh, Bendtner, Denilson etc would free up a healthy amount as well.