Wenger's inconsistent standards

[Joker]

Wenger has been talking about AOC, and how despite having a good game against Milan, there are still many things he needs to improve upon:


“He had a good game but he still has many things to add to his game. That is the purpose now for his work, especially the fitness, the physical intensity to add to his game. That will certainly come if he works hard.

“You are not a star after five or 10 games, let's let him play 100 times and then we will talk again.”

This is the right thing to do, because you expect the manager to set high standards for our young players and not to get carried away after a few good performances, to ensure that their feet remain on the ground. However, why didn't Wenger apply the same rigorous standards to mediocre young players like Denilson, Bendtner, Vela etc? They never reached the level of performance of AOC, and yet Wenger kept playing them in the first team, never publicly demanding more from them.

AOC has been criticised by Wenger for his fitness and physical intensity, and while that may be true and something to work on, no one can fault his commitment to the cause. Against Milan, despite carrying an injury, he was still tracking back, following runners and trying to block crosses when necessary. He was playing with the most maturity, a lot of the time being the deepest lying midfielder in the first half despite being an attacking minded player.

The aforementioned failures like Bendtner never showed the commitment levels of AOC, and yet Wenger persevered with them despite them showing no signs of improvement. Why didn't Wenger use the same standards then? Perhaps we'd have got rid of Bendtner, Diaby, Denilson, Vela, Eboue much earlier then, and had the chance to rebuild earlier.

[Syn]

He mightve fucked over a few players that were good-but-not-great, but when it comes to handling very special talent, I think Arsene tends to know what he's doing.

[GP]

So, what you're saying is, he's learnt from previous mistakes and will be demanding more in the future?

Awesome. Everyone's happy.

[Dog Toffee]

I dont understand the question.

[Fist of Lehmann]

The question, as far as I can make it is:

Q. Why has Wenger sought to dampen the hype surrounding The OC when he didn't do so around Denilson et al?

A. There was no hype surrounding Denilson et al.

[bignev]

The question, as far as I can make it is:

Q. Why has Wenger sought to dampen the hype surrounding The OC when he didn't do so around Denilson et al?

A. There was no hype surrounding Denilson et al.

I think it was more to do with;

Why did Denilson, Bendtner, Vela etc have so much faith and game time invested in them and yet players like AOC get minimum game time and their ability played down publicly?

[Kano]

I think it was more to do with;

Why did Denilson, Bendtner, Vela etc have so much faith and game time invested in them and yet players like AOC get minimum game time and their ability played down publicly?

when he has been here for the same amount of time as those mentioned, only then can you compare the faith and time invested in them.

secondly, they didn't have the whole nation watching with baited breath on how they would develop, so a ridiculous amount of pressure could be piled onto them.

it's a shit thread basically

[Power n Glory]

Probably all down to the psychological testing. Some players may respond better to public pressure than others.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I think it was more to do with;

Why did Denilson, Bendtner, Vela etc have so much faith and game time invested in them and yet players like AOC get minimum game time and their ability played down publicly?

probably because the media talked them down and siad they were shit etc so he talked them up to help them and with the ox and others everyone has talked them up and said they are the next messi etc etc so he talks them down to lower expectations and pressure etc.

good management imo

[Unai Tea]

Ox - English, hence the media cares about his development or at the least being able to correctly gauge how high they can set the bar for him so they can then later viciously attack should their artificial standard not be met within their own fanciful timeframe.

Bendtner, Denilson, Vela, etc etc etc - Foreign so no one in the media gives a shite

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Ox - English, hence the media cares about his development or at the least being able to correctly gauge how high they can set the bar for him so they can then later viciously attack should their artificial standard not be met within their own fanciful timeframe.

Bendtner, Denilson, Vela, etc etc etc - Foreign so no one in the media gives a shite

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

Ox - English, hence the media cares about his development or at the least being able to correctly gauge how high they can set the bar for him so they can then later viciously attack should their artificial standard not be met within their own fanciful timeframe.

Bendtner, Denilson, Vela, etc etc etc - Foreign so no one in the media gives a shite

Yep, that's what I'd go with. Theo, Jack and now Ox, hyped to hell. Not their fault, not Arsenal's fault. England have been so shit for so long every player that comes along who can kick a ball is a new saviour. Natural talent is rare in the British game and it fascinates people and gets them over excited.

[Özim]

Simple answer, Wenger is a muppet who shows bias towards certain players, he's always done this regardless of what they've actually done. It's a major flaw in his management.

Blind faith comes to mind with some of the players he stuck with.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Simple answer, Wenger is a muppet who shows bias towards certain players, he's always done this regardless of what they've actually done. It's a major flaw in his management.

Blind faith comes to mind with some of the players he stuck with.

For a simple answer, it is amazing how wrong you've got it.

[GP]

:lol:

[Özim]

For a simple answer, it is amazing how wrong you've got it.
I think he's a muppet and his blind faith has been shown many times over the years, if you can't see that then you must have selective vision.

[Sirjackofwilshere]

Remember when Ach and Zimm where always at loggerheads over who was better out of Denilson and Diaby. Just thinking abt it makes me want to gouge my eyes out farking hell

[Cripps_orig]

Remember when Ach and Zimm where always at loggerheads over who was better out of Denilson and Diaby. Just thinking abt it makes me want to gouge my eyes out farking hellDenilson and by some distance

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Surprised anyone is surprised- it's classic "I'm the only one who knows it all" Wenger.

Remember when we got Theo- the whole world salivated but he kept him on the bench for six months, though smugly still urging Sven to take him to the biggest stage in the world. Once that debacle was over and Theo was top on the casualty list made by the press, he starts talking him up and playing him. Theo has one night in Croatia 2 years later, becomes the press darlling again and Wumger starts talking him down and turning him into a 10 min supersub again(fatigue the new watch word). Then his unfortunate injury cycle starts, he recovers and is pre-dominantly shit and instead of being a supersub he's now always a guaranteed starter that no one really rates.

Did the same for Wilshere- all was going well in his career and he was a Wenger darling until the press got wind of him. Once that happened, Wenger ceased praising him gave him some oddball cameos and then punishment time at Bolton. Luckily Bolton worked out and he still was willing to come back and humble himself to be the understudy to the extra-ordinary talent that was Denilson. I stress how lucky we are that he didn't have ****y DNA like Bentley nor threaten us like Bendtner or rightly Szczesny did. Anyway Ramsey gets injured long term, the Denilson heat gets unbearable and finally the most natural and talented youngster EVER in the Wenger era, gets a proper chance.

Don't think I really need to do another paragraph on Oxo do I? In fact I would have said it was an English thing but his handling of the best keeper we've had since Seaman kind of negates that theory.

IMO he's just pretty crap in the intial stage when it comes to handling truly exceptional young talent and maybe young talent as a whole. I've always said he actuallly hurt our team at that time (and maybe even Cesc himself) by giving him so much undeserved and disproportionate time/responsibility on the pitch so early on. Then, unlike now, we had far better players and Cesc would have been a far better player with longer tutelege from those player- but in his wisdom he shipped them off, removing all obstacles to making sure Barca got a back an unbelievably great deal- a world class bar****er with top team experience of over 200 caps (60 in the CL) with practically all as a starter- tell me where you'd find another 24 year old cm in a top team europe with that sort of cv?

Anyway I should mention IMO he's handled one youngster properly since inception, Song, but the could have beens and the waste of spaces/caps are getting far too many.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Remember when Ach and Zimm where always at loggerheads over who was better out of Denilson and Diaby. Just thinking abt it makes me want to gouge my eyes out farking hell

Those were the days tbh.

[Cripps_orig]

Arsene Wenger has praised the increased strength of European football, while acknowledging that Champions League qualification is no longer guaranteed for a fourth-place Premier League finish.

Arsenal, who finished fourth in the English top-flight last season, consequently had to overcome a strong Udinese side in August to secure their qualification for the Group Stage of this season's Champions League, highlighting the increase in quality.

"Looking at the quality in Europe, it is going up, for any English team it is difficult. I have felt that for a few years now," Wenger told The Mirror.

"Where it [Champions League qualification from fourth place] was just a formality before, now it is not.

"With Udinese we had two hard games, they are a top team in Serie A."

After being knocked out of the tournament by AC Milan the London side are now focused on the closing stages of their domestic league campaign and closing in on Tottenham.

"I try to do my best and just know that I am ready to fight.

"At the moment for Tottenham, it [third place] is still in their hands. It will be down to consistency.

"We have difficult games, they have difficult games and I think we have to make sure first that the fourth spot is there."

Chelsea are the only English side left in this season’s Champions League but trail 3-1 to Napoli after their first leg.

Wenger said: "You look at the results of Man City and Man United at home this season and you would think that they were the two teams who would manage to go through easily. It is difficult.

"Judging on this season we [English teams] are not [on top], they [the rest of Europe] have caught up.

"Maybe because in England every championship game is a complete commitment, we suffer a bit more in the decisive Champions League games.

"This season did not go well. Maybe the clubs have to up the quality of their game."

Former Southampton midfielder Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain impressed against AC Milan last week and his manager admits he is struggling to control the hype surrounding the player.

"His feet are on the ground, but we have to manage him in a responsible way as well," Wenger said.

"The problem when you have a talented player like that is that everybody wants him to play every single game. If you do that then he will be injured.

"I am a great admirer, but it is difficult to slow the enthusiasm down on the expectation level."

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2914/champions-league/2012/03/11/2959754/wenger-fourth-place-does-not-guarantee-champions-league

More inconsistency.

First 4th is a trophy and now it doesnt guarantee a CL place

[Olivier's xmas twist]

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2914/champions-league/2012/03/11/2959754/wenger-fourth-place-does-not-guarantee-champions-league

More inconsistency.

First 4th is a trophy and now it doesnt guarantee a CL place

Yeah, but hes right and is not not what Gooners want to here, all are they happy for him to go on about 4th being a trophy etc.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Everything he does is designed to stifle young talent so that we work our way down the divisions.

Lucky for us, he is a bumbling idiot.

[Marc Overmars]

Thinking back to the Udinese tie, they were 2 incredibly hard fixtures and we did very well to win in Italy. I prefer it now they've made the qualifiers less of a formality than it used to be.

All the more reason to get 3rd.

[Özim]

Europeran football isn't that strong, take out Barca and Real and it's pretty lousy.

Also him and his team are always ready to fight, it's rare to see them do so on the pitch, more of the typical nonsense by *******.

[Joker]

"The problem when you have a talented player like that is that everybody wants him to play every single game. If you do that then he will be injured.

Shame he didn't take this into account when over-playing Wilshere last season.

There wouldn't be such a clamour to play AOC in every single game if there was enough strength in depth in the squad. As it is, he is one of the few exciting players in this squad, so it's natural fans want to see him play rather than turds like Park, Chamakh, Gervinho etc.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Shame he didn't take this into account when over-playing Wilshere last season.

There wouldn't be such a clamour to play AOC in every single game if there was enough strength in depth in the squad. As it is, he is one of the few exciting players in this squad, so it's natural fans want to see him play rather than turds like Park, Chamakh, Gervinho etc.

He never he had Nasri and Cesc who could rotate with Wishere tbh, this year there is no one to rotate AOC with and you can't put all that pressure on him.

Your right though extra sqaud depth should have been bought.

[Marc Overmars]

Wilshere was never used in a rotation system last year, he was the first name on the teamsheet and played 50 times.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Europeran football isn't that strong, take out Barca and Real and it's pretty lousy.

Also him and his team are always ready to fight, it's rare to see them do so on the pitch, more of the typical nonsense by *******.

the second isnt as true this season as it is in recent years imo. the last htree weeks show that, yes we are out of everything but still there is something different there right now, a spirit and a pride i havnt seen for years. ive said before but this year i feel like im supporting my team not players playing for my team. many games this year, even when we have lost, there has been a fight.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wilshere was never used in a rotation system last year, he was the first name on the teamsheet and played 50 times.

No sure about being the 1st name on the sheet, no way fab would always be 1st. my point was, that we had Nasri/Cesc/Song so we not have to rely on jack that much.

We don't have that quality. with the attackers being poor as they are (except rvp) AOC it would be on his young shoulders and if he does mess up you'll get a few who would have been on his back.

Not everyone even wanted him when we signed him, he was a "waste of money" Now he's the best thing since slice bread.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

the second isnt as true this season as it is in recent years imo. the last htree weeks show that, yes we are out of everything but still there is something different there right now, a spirit and a pride i havnt seen for years. ive said before but this year i feel like im supporting my team not players playing for my team. many games this year, even when we have lost, there has been a fight.

Yep the teams has fought a lot this season more then it has in the last 3 tbh. The effort they have shown has been immense shame the quality has not be there to go with it.

[Marc Overmars]

No sure about being the 1st name on the sheet, no way fab would always be 1st. my point was, that we had Nasri/Cesc/Song so we not have to rely on jack that much.

We don't have that quality. with the attackers being poor as they are (except rvp) AOC it would be on his young shoulders and if he does mess up you'll get a few who would have been on his back.

Not everyone even wanted him when we signed him, he was a "waste of money" Now he's the best thing since slice bread.

We did rely on Jack though. Fabregas was a fraud last year and Nasri didn't turn up after Christmas, Wilshere was the ever present.

[Syn]

Charlie, I think you might have it the other way. Wilshere made around 50 appearances last season and was a guaranteed starter because he was impossible to drop. Over the course of the season, he out-performed cesc and nasri comfortably. There was around a 2-3 month period where Nasri was absolutely incredible but for consistency and quality, Jack was the best in the league IMO. We haven't been relying on AOC because we do have options in that position. We're not even sure whether he will start tomorrow. e.g. Against Tottenham we went with Benayoun because we needed a possession player. He hasn't made many appearances this season and he hasn't had the season Jack had last year. I think we can expect a few goals from him now though. And I also think he will go to the Euros with Wilshere.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We did rely on Jack though. Fabregas was a fraud last year and Nasri didn't turn up after Christmas, Wilshere was the ever present.


Charlie, I think you might have it the other way. Wilshere made around 50 appearances last season and was a guaranteed starter because he was impossible to drop. Over the course of the season, he out-performed cesc and nasri comfortably. There was around a 2-3 month period where Nasri was absolutely incredible but for consistency and quality, Jack was the best in the league IMO. We haven't been relying on AOC because we do have options in that position. We're not even sure whether he will start tomorrow. e.g. Against Tottenham we went with Benayoun because we needed a possession player. He hasn't made many appearances this season and he hasn't had the season Jack had last year. I think we can expect a few goals from him now though. And I also think he will go to the Euros with Wilshere.

Touche lads Touche.
Although, i don't think Jack owuld have started many games had Like M O said the other 2 not been as bad as they were he would have been rotated more.

This season it seems that either AW is learning from the wilshere thing and does not want to give a burnout to another youngster( which i don't really get has the youngsters should have lots of energy imo)

Or he seems in the 2nd half of the season apart from RVP and AOC his attaking options are poor and does not want to burden the young lad.

Would be nice for AOC,Theo, Jack, Gibbs or go to the Euros tbh, nice to see Arsenal players back in the england sqaud.