Wenger Out?

[Letters]

I keep changing my mind about this.
If we finish top 4 then should we still sack Wenger?
This season has been such a roller-coaster but right now we're looking pretty good again, we seem to have a bit more steel, we have a decent captain and if the rumours about Podolski are true then we've learned our lesson and are looking to do business early rather than scrabbling around on deadline day.

Should Wenger still go? Does it depend on whether we finish top 4 or not?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If it not broke don't fix it, I have always thought Aw should go end of the season or the board because together they cause damage. However if AW can change his ways spend on the team if we finish 3rd or 4th then ill back him next season. IMO a month ago id say we get a new manager in now id doubt we will tbh.

He needs to get RVP to stay because he is the best captain since paddy v yesterday and even in the last 5/6 games we seem to have leaders on the pitch (where did that come from).

Hopefully we get Podolski and other quality then ill be happy.

So ill vote maybe even though its not on the list.

[Kano]

he will still be here next season, without doubt.

but as to whether the should or not, depends on rvp.

if the dutchman stays then wenger should go but if our captain leaves, then the manager has to stay for another season at least

[Syn]

I want Wenger to leave on his own but I want him to want to leave at the end of the season. Can't see anything other than a poor summer's business and a massive injury crisis knocking us out of all competitions. I'd like big changes at the top. Some of the youngsters we have are fantastic and I think a new manager would have a lot to work with.

[Marc Overmars]

The height of our achievement year in year out is 3rd/4th place.

I believe we can and should be looking to do better than that. That's all Wenger seems to be capable of delivering so I'm still open to a change in a manager, although probably a little less vociferous about it now the team is showing some fight at least. This team flatters to decieve and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if we're here this time next year out of all the competitions and fighting for CL football again.

I'm happy to get behind and believe in the team again though, given how they've restored pride to proceedings, which was the least they could have done.

I think it's critical for Wenger though to ensure RVP stays. It would kill the fans faith and probably the team spirit if we lost him.

[BOBN]

nothing question because wenger will never be sacked. come to terms with it.

this thread is now about christmas trees.

[Letters]

nothing question because wenger will never be sacked.

that wasn't the question :good:

[BOBN]

that wasn't the question :good:
could have fooled me.

especially the bit that says 'should we still sack wenger?'

all im saying is why not concentrate your energies on stuff you have a genuine say on? gazidiz was wumming when he said wenger is accountable to the fans.

[Letters]

could have fooled me.

Clearly not a difficult task. The poll question says should Wenger go, you could take that to mean sacked or step aside.


all im saying is why not concentrate your energies on stuff you have a genuine say on?

I don't have a 'say' in anything which goes on at Arsenal. So what, should we just not talk about any of it then?

:doh:

The whole point of this section of the board is to debate stuff, pretty much all of which we don't have any say in at all.

[GP]

MellowFellow :lol:

[LDG]

I love this team. Trophies can wait for another day, but if we carry on putting the effort in, they will come.

Still think Wenger has something to offer us, so I'd like him in for another season.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Clearly not a difficult task. The poll question says should Wenger go, you could take that to mean sacked or step aside.



I don't have a 'say' in anything which goes on at Arsenal. So what, should we just not talk about any of it then?

:doh:

The whole point of this section of the board is to debate stuff, pretty much all of which we don't have any say in at all.I see you completely ignored the part where BOBN pointed out that you said 'shall we still sack him?"

[Letters]

I see you completely ignored the part where BOBN pointed out that you said 'shall we still sack him?"

I see you completely ignored the part where I said "Should Wenger still go? Does it depend on whether we finish top 4 or not?"
And the poll question says "go", not "sack"

:good:

[LDG]

This is going well.

[Letters]

This is going well.

It was going well before it was hijacked :rolleyes:

It doesn't matter whether we have any control over this or not, BOBN and Jeebus. This is Arsenal Debate, we can't control anything much what happens in Arsenal, that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss it. Otherwise what's the point of this section?

[KSE Comedy Club]

I love this team. Trophies can wait for another day, but if we carry on putting the effort in, they will come.

Still think Wenger has something to offer us, so I'd like him in for another season.I pretty much agree with this.

I did want wenger to go, but it does appear that he is starting to realise that we won't put up with previous seasons' mediocre bullshit anymore.

This team is really starting to gel now and they are fighting for each other. They do now have spirit and strength and want to win games and are showing some passion. All we have ever asked for tbh.

If wenger gets things right this summer he could turn things around very quickly. He does need to change the way he goes about things during games too but that will come with the right personnel.

This is his last chance with the fans though, regardless of what the board do/say. Unsackable or not, if he fucks up again with transfers and doesn't get rvp to sign a new deal then all fans will give up on him completely.

I'm prepared to let the crap parts of this season go if he can do it right this time. The way the team are starting to play together is inspiring and has given us all hope and belief despite the odds being against us a few weeks ago, and you have to admit that wenger has played his part in that.

If he gets it right this time, I will forgive and forget and he can stay, but if he doesn't then I will be glad to see the back of him.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I pretty much agree with this.

I did want wenger to go, but it does appear that he is starting to realise that we won't put up with previous seasons' mediocre bullshit anymore.

This team is really starting to gel now and they are fighting for each other. They do now have spirit and strength and want to win games and are showing some passion. All we have ever asked for tbh.

If wenger gets things right this summer he could turn things around very quickly. He does need to change the way he goes about things during games too but that will come with the right personnel.

This is his last chance with the fans though, regardless of what the board do/say. Unsackable or not, if he fucks up again with transfers and doesn't get rvp to sign a new deal then all fans will give up on him completely.

I'm prepared to let the crap parts of this season go if he can do it right this time. The way the team are starting to play together is inspiring and has given us all hope and belief despite the odds being against us a few weeks ago, and you have to admit that wenger has played his part in that.

If he gets it right this time, is will forgive and forget and he can stay, but of he doesn't then I will be glad to see the back of him.

Awesome post dude agree with it.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I see you completely ignored the part where I said "Should Wenger still go? Does it depend on whether we finish top 4 or not?"
And the poll question says "go", not "sack"

:good:I didn't ignore it :good:

[KSE Comedy Club]

It was going well before it was hijacked :rolleyes:

It doesn't matter whether we have any control over this or not, BOBN and Jeebus. This is Arsenal Debate, we can't control anything much what happens in Arsenal, that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss it. Otherwise what's the point of this section?I wasn't disputing otherwise :shrug:

BOBN was, I was merely commenting on your 'discussion' ;)

[LDG]

I pretty much agree with this.

I did want wenger to go, but it does appear that he is starting to realise that we won't put up with previous seasons' mediocre bullshit anymore.

This team is really starting to gel now and they are fighting for each other. They do now have spirit and strength and want to win games and are showing some passion. All we have ever asked for tbh.

If wenger gets things right this summer he could turn things around very quickly. He does need to change the way he goes about things during games too but that will come with the right personnel.

This is his last chance with the fans though, regardless of what the board do/say. Unsackable or not, if he fucks up again with transfers and doesn't get rvp to sign a new deal then all fans will give up on him completely.

I'm prepared to let the crap parts of this season go if he can do it right this time. The way the team are starting to play together is inspiring and has given us all hope and belief despite the odds being against us a few weeks ago, and you have to admit that wenger has played his part in that.

If he gets it right this time, is will forgive and forget and he can stay, but of he doesn't then I will be glad to see the back of him.

Can't say I disagree with any of that.

What I can see now is a foundation. And all it comes from is desire and passion, with some brilliance from our captain and a few others.

To me, it is the most simple transfer window Wenger has been faced with in a long time, so long as he keeps RVP. Buy some proven quality, and we could very well be up and challenging where we want to be next year, but with some instilled passion and commitment.

Like you say, if he bollocks it up, it definitely is goodbye.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Awesome post dude agree with it.Thanks mate :hug:

[Letters]

I pretty much agree with this.

I did want wenger to go, but it does appear that he is starting to realise that we won't put up with previous seasons' mediocre bullshit anymore.

This team is really starting to gel now and they are fighting for each other. They do now have spirit and strength and want to win games and are showing some passion. All we have ever asked for tbh.

If wenger gets things right this summer he could turn things around very quickly. He does need to change the way he goes about things during games too but that will come with the right personnel.

This is his last chance with the fans though, regardless of what the board do/say. Unsackable or not, if he fucks up again with transfers and doesn't get rvp to sign a new deal then all fans will give up on him completely.

I'm prepared to let the crap parts of this season go if he can do it right this time. The way the team are starting to play together is inspiring and has given us all hope and belief despite the odds being against us a few weeks ago, and you have to admit that wenger has played his part in that.

If he gets it right this time, I will forgive and forget and he can stay, but if he doesn't then I will be glad to see the back of him.

:gp:

This is a really tough call IMO. My fear has always been that we'll get worse after Wenger leaves, at times this season though there didn't seem to be much to lose though. Right now we're looking like a pretty decent side with some fight about them. Do the right things in the summer and we could push on next season. Right now I'd like him to stay but another collapse and a 6th place finish and I'll probably change my mind again.

[IBK]

I'm prepared to let the crap parts of this season go if he can do it right this time. The way the team are starting to play together is inspiring and has given us all hope and belief despite the odds being against us a few weeks ago, and you have to admit that wenger has played his part in that.

If he gets it right this time, I will forgive and forget and he can stay, but if he doesn't then I will be glad to see the back of him.

This. :good:

[IBK]

Can I add that I was listening to TalkShite last night before the game and the debate was over whether clubs should listen to fans when deciding policy. The point was made that while there are a few genuinely knowledgeable and balanced fans, the majority of us are pretty uninformed really, and clubs would be ill advised to follow policies on the basis of keeping fans happy. The situation at Wolves being a case in point.

Its amazing how a good run of results and seeing a liitle fight in our team means that we are miles away in terms of our feelings/opinions than we were 1 month ago.

[Coney]

I'm prepared to let the crap parts of this season go if he can do it right this time. The way the team are starting to play together is inspiring and has given us all hope and belief despite the odds being against us a few weeks ago, and you have to admit that wenger has played his part in that.

If he gets it right this time, I will forgive and forget and he can stay, but if he doesn't then I will be glad to see the back of him.

This. :good:

This x 2.

I had previously said that I wanted him to go because he is not getting the extra couple of players needed to make the difference. Otherwise, I was comfortable with things - Arteta, Merts helping to boost the team showed promise - but the fact that RvP still seemed to have no help in that no other strikers were scoring and there was no apparent attempt to buy a reliable goalscorer in the January window was the last straw for me at the time.

However, if this team finally does make an effort, if we do by Podolski at the start of the window and clear out some of the remaining crap - Chamakh, Bendtner, Arseshavings to name but 3 - and get a couple more seasoned players, then I think I am comfortable with Wenger staying on. It would show that while we are still wanting to bring in academy players - nothing wrong with that - we are still buying what we need to keep a PL title-challenging side. It does not take much to make the difference. If Podolski comes and scores half of what RvP does, then we are in great shape.

I guess it also helps that it looks as if we are in with a decent chance of pissing off spuds who thought it was their year to piss over us. Nicking 3rd from them and they being the ones who choke in the final 3rd of the season would be more than pleasant to see.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

I think his fate hangs in where the team finishes at the end of the season - outside a CL spot, he should definitely go (what's next, staving off relegation). He will not be out of the woods at that point either as his next test will be his actions in the transfer market. If he continues his mad and insulting drivel about a lack of quality players available and then goes about some last minute mediocre signings, then it's by by Arsene.

[Ollie the Optimist]

i dont want him to go now because this team i believe in. he has turned it around, we used to laugh at his mental strength comments yet in the last four games he showed it was true. this team could do something special next season, keep it together with right signings and there could be at least a cup and a possible title challenge. this team has something special about it. one more season with the right summer and we'll see

[Marc Overmars]

i dont want him to go now because this team i believe in. he has turned it around, we used to laugh at his mental strength comments yet in the last four games he showed it was true. this team could do something special next season, keep it together with right signings and there could be at least a cup and a possible title challenge. this team has something special about it. one more season with the right summer and we'll see

We'll see what? Next year this, next year that, maybe with a signing or 2. It's all been said before.

The problem we have is that most fans despite their frustrations will always stop short of saying they want him gone by creating another "they have potential" perception for the team. Wenger is inherently a part of this club now and that is why he'll never be sacked and why the clamour for him to go will never be strong enough.

He's here for life he wants it.

[Syn]

He is the man who killed Jack Wilshere. I don't think I'll be able to forgive him for that. I don't think I'll love again tbh. I do actually think there is something different about this group of players. Before we had the quality but lacked the mentality. This season it seems to be the reverse. But Wenger hasn't shown signs of being able to push on from a promising foundation. 07/08, 09/10 were both promising seasons but instead of building on it the next season is worse. He should have run out of chances last summer but here he is making us believe once more. But yeah, he fucked over Wilskins so he can go and bring in anyone who doesn't think it's normal to be topping the injury list table.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't doubt the fighting spirit they've shown in recent weeks, it's been great to see. It can't be ignored though that we were pathetic in Milan and powderpuff against Sunderland, where was the fight then? I think I've been duped enough times in recent years by what's gone on, I'm just a little skeptical now about anything this team is proclaimed to be.

[Özim]

He should definitely go, we have no chance of winning a thing with him in charge.

It's been a terrible season IMO and except for a few results very forgetable, the season was as good as over in February, 4th place is good (but not success) but are we happy to just continue making up the numbers in the CL and failing time after time to succeed when the opportunity is there?

[Power n Glory]

This run hasn't changed my opinion on Wenger. I think the players have some real fight and character over the past few weeks. They're fighting back to prove people wrong and under such circumstances, we always have a few months where we play amazing football. This has happened before. We're on a good run. And it's not because of a change in tactics, selection or anything like that.

In my personal opinion, Rosicky should have been playing months ago. From the start of the season, but Wenger favoured Ramsey even though he was a piss poor choice and showing it every week. It took an injury to Ramsey for Rosicky to get a good run of games. It wasn't a tactical decision, it was circumstance. I won't go too hard on Wenger, Rosicky hasn't always been available for selection, but he should have been first choice for this season. He's been playing well from the get go and gets better with each game.

I don't think Wenger will do anything different come next season. I don't expect anything drastic in the transfer window. I don't expect him to try a different approach on the pitch. This is why I think he should still go. I really enjoyed last nights game and it's the best I've seen us play in a long time. But I think he's taken us as far as he can. He has to improve in certain areas and grow otherwise it will be the same story.

[Letters]

:lol:

[Letters]

He should definitely go, we have no chance of winning a thing with him in charge.

It's been a terrible season IMO and except for a few results very forgetable, the season was as good as over in February, 4th place is good (but not success) but are we happy to just continue making up the numbers in the CL and failing time after time to succeed when the opportunity is there?

It's been a terrible season if you're a glory hunter who is only interested in trophies. But if you're interested in the journey of a season, the ups and downs that necessarily go with being a football fan, then this has been quite an interesting one. It's had some awful moments (Old Trafford etc) but some brilliant ones too (Chelsea away, the run we're on at the moment). If you don't have any downs then you can't appreciate the ups.

Of course trophies are what a club at our level should be aspiring to and the fact it's been so long is certainly a failing on Wenger's part, one which he should have been sacked for. But right now we're showing a lot more fight and a top 4 finish is looking probable which defies most of our expectations for much of this season. If we do the right things this summer (big if of course but the Podolski rumours are encouraging and if true give some indication we're looking to do things right this year and not scrabble around on deadline day) then we could push on next year.

As for making up the numbers in the CL, again it's not all about whether we win it or not. The AC Milan game at home was fantastic. We didn't do enough to go through but no-one could sensibly fault their efforts on the night or feel anything but pride at the way we fought. It was one of best atmospheres I've been in at the Emirates and night like that are worth being in the competition whether we progress or not.

I think right now I want him to stay as I see signs of hope but there have been too many false dawns before so I'm not certain about it. It's certainly not true that any idiot could come in and we'd suddenly be sweeping all before us again, if we do replace Wenger we'd have to be very careful in who we bring in.

[Kano]

:lol:

[LDG]

We'll win the league next season.

[Letters]

We'll win the league next season.

No spoilers :angry:

[Özil's Panoramic View]

if we do replace Wenger we'd have to be very careful in who we bring in.


i think we need a separate poll with a shortlisted possible replacements for Wenger - yea lets take it that far cuz if we factor in by his predisposed arrogance, then we pretty much know there won't be much change at the Emirates under his stewardship

[LDG]

No spoilers :angry:

I just don't see Utd, Sp*ds, City, Chelsea getting much better than they already are. And we can. Add more quality to what we have, and I seriously think we have something to work with....if we can keep this same mentality, that is.

[Xhaka Can’t]

He should definitely go, we have no chance of winning a thing with him in charge.

It's been a terrible season IMO and except for a few results very forgetable, the season was as good as over in February, 4th place is good (but not success) but are we happy to just continue making up the numbers in the CL and failing time after time to succeed when the opportunity is there?

I agree he should go and will expand on this later when I have the time to do so.

But I have to take issue now with your forgettable season comment. This season has been anything but forgettable. I cannot recall going through such a rollercoaster of a ride within one season. Ever.

[BOBN]

He should definitely go, we have no chance of winning a thing with him in charge.

It's been a terrible season IMO and except for a few results very forgetable, the season was as good as over in February, 4th place is good (but not success) but are we happy to just continue making up the numbers in the CL and failing time after time to succeed when the opportunity is there?
stop it. most enjoyable season in years.

wenger did well filling out the squad before the deadline but he now needs to sprinkle the world class quality on top. podolski, a worldclass playmaker and a defender to partner kos and/or good enough to hold vermaleans hand would be lovely. actually dont mind rvp making us sweat with the contract because it will put the club under pressure to buy big.

now if he doesnt, then the wolves will be out.

[Letters]

But I have to take issue now with your forgettable season comment. This season has been anything but forgettable. I cannot recall going through such a rollercoaster of a ride within one season. Ever.

Aye, and that's my point. It's the roller-coaster which is a lot of the fun of being a football fan if you follow a team week to week. The bad times make the good times seem all the better. I can't think of anything more dull than being a Rangers fan when they won the title 10 years in a row. It surely can't feel the same as a trophy will after a (for us) long barren spell.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Aye, and that's my point. It's the roller-coaster which is a lot of the fun of being a football fan if you follow a team week to week. The bad times make the good times seem all the better. I can't think of anything more dull than being a Rangers fan when they won the title 10 years in a row. It surely can't feel the same as a trophy will after a (for us) long barren spell.

I guess Rangers fans have unintended excitement now though. :lol:

[GP]

Aye, and that's my point. It's the roller-coaster which is a lot of the fun of being a football fan if you follow a team week to week. The bad times make the good times seem all the better. I can't think of anything more dull than being a Rangers fan when they won the title 10 years in a row. It surely can't feel the same as a trophy will after a (for us) long barren spell.

Of course, it all depends where your priorities lie.

[Fist of Lehmann]

RE: this 'should have been sacked' thing

Do you reckon the guys at the top, those with the actual power of termination, knowing that we have to make £15-20 million profit a year, would choose to sack Wenger, appoint someone else and charge them with the directive of both winning trophies AND making them the £15-20M profit?

That'd be a tall order for anyone.

[LDG]

For me, I haven't felt this happy as an Arsenal fan for about 5 years. And all it's taken is for the lads to put such effort into the game, that you can't help but fall in love with the team again. Seeing a group of players who aren't just about money and where their next move is, is what it's about, and what supporting a team is all about.

But I'm not sensible, logical or a tactical genius...

[Fist of Lehmann]

But I'm not sensible, logical or a tactical genius...:gp:

[Joker]

He should still go because despite our good recent form, all we're fighting for at the tail end of the season is qualification for the Champions League. In fact in previous seasons we still just about in the title race around this time (although it was inevitable that we were going to collapse) so if anything we've regressed this season. We are a club that won 5 trophies in a 4 year period from 2001-2005, and now we've had no successes for 7 years. A few good results doesn't hide that fact.

The biggest problem with Wenger is his mentality. He's no longer interested in the Carling Cup and the FA Cup, because financially they can't compare to qualifying for the Champions League, which is the height of the club's ambition these days. This is not good enough, I want to see an ambitious manager in charge who will at least try to win trophies, even if we fail.

[Letters]

Eh? Last year we got to the final of the Carling Cup. This year he was putting out pretty much his full side in the FA Cup, we went out after a poor display but it wasn't because Wenger played a load of kids.

[Joker]

But whenever you hear Wenger in interviews he comes out with the usual stuff about how "4th is a trophy" and it's clear that he considers the FA Cup and Carling Cup low down on his list of priorities. Perhaps other managers do so as well, but they're not so open about it. There's every chance this indifference transmits itself to the players, who don't go for the Cup with the same intensity as they would, for example, a league game.

And another thing is why, whenever we reach the final stages of a tournament or seem like we're challenging for the league, that we collapse. You can point to the disintegration in the league in 07-08, 09-10 and 10-11, or the FA Cup semi final loss to Chelsea, Carling Cup final loss to Birmingham, etc. Wenger has failed to assembly a squad with the mental strength to go the extra mile, which distinguishes good teams with decent teams. It's great to show "mental strength" in league matches during a fight for 4th place, but it really counts in the circumstances mentioned above, and that was when we failed the test.

[Letters]

I'm not sure he mentions the 4th place trophy at every opportunity, that's a bit of an exaggeration.

The mental frailty has been a massive issue and Wenger is definitely culpable in that, BUT there are signs that this lot have a bit more steel. We've just won our 4th league game in a row where we've gone behind. I'd trust this lot more in a cup final than last year's team. I guess the end of this season will show something about how mentally strong this lot are, there's a lot to play for and there's a lot of pressure.

[Dog Toffee]

Ha. A few straight wins and now the majority want him to stay, fickle.

[Dog Toffee]

he will still be here next season, without doubt.

but as to whether the should or not, depends on rvp.

if the dutchman stays then wenger should go but if our captain leaves, then the manager has to stay for another season at least

And what kind of crazy logic is this?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Can I add that I was listening to TalkShite last night before the game and the debate was over whether clubs should listen to fans when deciding policy. The point was made that while there are a few genuinely knowledgeable and balanced fans, the majority of us are pretty uninformed really, and clubs would be ill advised to follow policies on the basis of keeping fans happy. The situation at Wolves being a case in point.

Its amazing how a good run of results and seeing a liitle fight in our team means that we are miles away in terms of our feelings/opinions than we were 1 month ago.

Thats why the owners are therefore to make those decisions tbh, not the fans we don't pay his wages so all in all its not up to us if he goes or not and never should be.


He is the man who killed Jack Wilshere. I don't think I'll be able to forgive him for that. I don't think I'll love again tbh. I do actually think there is something different about this group of players. Before we had the quality but lacked the mentality. This season it seems to be the reverse. But Wenger hasn't shown signs of being able to push on from a promising foundation. 07/08, 09/10 were both promising seasons but instead of building on it the next season is worse. He should have run out of chances last summer but here he is making us believe once more. But yeah, he fucked over Wilskins so he can go and bring in anyone who doesn't think it's normal to be topping the injury list table.

Not sure he ruined Wilshere, like to know how you'd figure that out?

[LDG]

There is, however, a valid point in what Joker says. Our manager / board are the only one's around who openly admit that 4th place is an achievement.

Whilst it is, in a way, it doesn't sound ambitious for a club of our stature. It is one of the things which has really irked me over the last few years. Whilst the sentiment is correct, the message it sends out to fans, players, other clubs and potential signings is not a message of an ambitious club.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It's been a terrible season if you're a glory hunter who is only interested in trophies. But if you're interested in the journey of a season, the ups and downs that necessarily go with being a football fan, then this has been quite an interesting one. It's had some awful moments (Old Trafford etc) but some brilliant ones too (Chelsea away, the run we're on at the moment). If you don't have any downs then you can't appreciate the ups.

Of course trophies are what a club at our level should be aspiring to and the fact it's been so long is certainly a failing on Wenger's part, one which he should have been sacked for. But right now we're showing a lot more fight and a top 4 finish is looking probable which defies most of our expectations for much of this season. If we do the right things this summer (big if of course but the Podolski rumours are encouraging and if true give some indication we're looking to do things right this year and not scrabble around on deadline day) then we could push on next year.

As for making up the numbers in the CL, again it's not all about whether we win it or not. The AC Milan game at home was fantastic. We didn't do enough to go through but no-one could sensibly fault their efforts on the night or feel anything but pride at the way we fought. It was one of best atmospheres I've been in at the Emirates and night like that are worth being in the competition whether we progress or not.

I think right now I want him to stay as I see signs of hope but there have been too many false dawns before so I'm not certain about it. It's certainly not true that any idiot could come in and we'd suddenly be sweeping all before us again, if we do replace Wenger we'd have to be very careful in who we bring in.

Pretty much.

[Kano]

And what kind of crazy logic is this?

ok numbnuts

if both the captain and manager leave at the same time, then we would start the season similar to this and be more than unlikely to turn it around.

if RVP leaves, we can replace but we need the stability of management for at least another season and not a whole draft of players leaving with him.

if the manager leaves then retaining RVP would encourage the players to stay too.

are you related to that other tard joker by chance?

[Syn]

Not sure he ruined Wilshere, like to know how you'd figure that out?

He is still out injured because our club tried to rush him back and he sustained a second stress fracture.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

There is, however, a valid point in what Joker says. Our manager / board are the only one's around who openly admit that 4th place is an achievement.

Whilst it is, in a way, it doesn't sound ambitious for a club of our stature. It is one of the things which has really irked me over the last few years. Whilst the sentiment is correct, the message it sends out to fans, players, other clubs and potential signings is not a message of an ambitious club.

Yep is a silly statement to make agreed, But i highly doubt Wenger would dare take 4th over the winning a cup no way. It seems something they say when they feel all hope is lost.

and it will be nonsense to think Wenger would have been happy at not winning a thing in the last 7 years regardless of what he says.

[LDG]

Yep is a silly statement to make agreed, But i highly doubt Wenger would dare take 4th over the winning a cup no way. It seems something they say when they feel all hope is lost.

and it will be nonsense to think Wenger would have been happy at not winning a thing in the last 7 years regardless of what he says.

Well of course not. You can see he wants to win.

But there is a difference between his / Ivan's approach with the media, and other clubs. Do you think for one second SAF would come out and say of his team, that "it's ok, fourth is like a trophy"?? Not a chance. He would just say, "Not good enough" with purple all over his nose.

[Dog Toffee]

ok numbnuts

if both the captain and manager leave at the same time, then we would start the season similar to this and be more than unlikely to turn it around.

if RVP leaves, we can replace but we need the stability of management for at least another season and not a whole draft of players leaving with him.


if the manager leaves then retaining RVP would encourage the players to stay too.

are you related to that other tard joker by chance?

You said if RvP stays then Wenger should go, why?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Well of course not. You can see he wants to win.

But there is a difference between his / Ivan's approach with the media, and other clubs. Do you think for one second SAF would come out and say of his team, that "it's ok, fourth is like a trophy"?? Not a chance. He would just say, "Not good enough" with purple all over his nose.

Yeah i agree, I hate that stuff with a passion, when he or Ivan or PHW come out and say this nonsense. And agree if were challenging it should be said, but were not. I don't recall AW saying this When we was challenging for titles or with the invincible's. It seems since he says it once we go out of trophy's and were challeging for nothing to make his players feel ok, thats how i see it.

[GP]

You said if RvP stays then Wenger should go, why?

Cos wengers a useless old ****!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He is still out injured because our club tried to rush him back and he sustained a second stress fracture.

Fair play. Im sure he'll be back stronger though.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He should still go because despite our good recent form, all we're fighting for at the tail end of the season is qualification for the Champions League. In fact in previous seasons we still just about in the title race around this time (although it was inevitable that we were going to collapse) so if anything we've regressed this season. We are a club that won 5 trophies in a 4 year period from 2001-2005, and now we've had no successes for 7 years. A few good results doesn't hide that fact.

The biggest problem with Wenger is his mentality. He's no longer interested in the Carling Cup and the FA Cup, because financially they can't compare to qualifying for the Champions League, which is the height of the club's ambition these days. This is not good enough, I want to see an ambitious manager in charge who will at least try to win trophies, even if we fail.

Thats rubbish, they may not be top of his list but he still love to win them if not he'd have sent a shite team out in the CC final last season. Whether he is good enough to motivate his team to win them is a different matter tbf.

[fakeyank]

He definitely should leave. AW has this amazing smoke screen every season... he depresses the fuck out of us and then wins a couple of games. We fans get cheated thinking we literally won the lottery when in reality, we are still where we are and sometimes worse!

There is no doubt he needs to leave.. sure addition of 3-4 players in summer would bolster this squad but we have been saying this shit for the last 5-6 years and we know it aint happening this year either.

Time for a new manager to step in and take the club onwards and upwards!

[Letters]

A couple :lol:

Behave.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He definitely should leave. AW has this amazing smoke screen every season... he depresses the fuck out of us and then wins a couple of games. We fans get cheated thinking we literally won the lottery when in reality, we are still where we are and sometimes worse!

There is no doubt he needs to leave.. sure addition of 3-4 players in summer would bolster this squad but we have been saying this shit for the last 5-6 years and we know it aint happening this year either.

Time for a new manager to step in and take the club onwards and upwards!

Like AVB did for the chavs ? depends if its a decent manager or a pub team one tbh.

[Dog Toffee]

He definitely should leave. AW has this amazing smoke screen every season... he depresses the fuck out of us and then wins a couple of games. We fans get cheated thinking we literally won the lottery when in reality, we are still where we are and sometimes worse!

There is no doubt he needs to leave.. sure addition of 3-4 players in summer would bolster this squad but we have been saying this shit for the last 5-6 years and we know it aint happening this year either.

Time for a new manager to step in and take the club onwards and upwards!

Worst post of the year.

[fakeyank]

It's been a terrible season if you're a glory hunter who is only interested in trophies. But if you're interested in the journey of a season, the ups and downs that necessarily go with being a football fan, then this has been quite an interesting one. It's had some awful moments (Old Trafford etc) but some brilliant ones too (Chelsea away, the run we're on at the moment). If you don't have any downs then you can't appreciate the ups.

Of course trophies are what a club at our level should be aspiring to and the fact it's been so long is certainly a failing on Wenger's part, one which he should have been sacked for. But right now we're showing a lot more fight and a top 4 finish is looking probable which defies most of our expectations for much of this season. If we do the right things this summer (big if of course but the Podolski rumours are encouraging and if true give some indication we're looking to do things right this year and not scrabble around on deadline day) then we could push on next year.

As for making up the numbers in the CL, again it's not all about whether we win it or not. The AC Milan game at home was fantastic. We didn't do enough to go through but no-one could sensibly fault their efforts on the night or feel anything but pride at the way we fought. It was one of best atmospheres I've been in at the Emirates and night like that are worth being in the competition whether we progress or not.

I think right now I want him to stay as I see signs of hope but there have been too many false dawns before so I'm not certain about it. It's certainly not true that any idiot could come in and we'd suddenly be sweeping all before us again, if we do replace Wenger we'd have to be very careful in who we bring in.

Right now is what 5 games? I am judging him on years of total ignorance of what needed to be done. We had a 'right now' moment right after getting bolloxed at OT and we looked good. Like PnG says, this happens every season and we are out of reckoning come March. I remember in our shambolic 08/09 season, we had a 16-17 game unbeaten run with draws all over the place but where did it take us? Its high time he leaves.. we need a winner as a manager, not someone who champions 4th place as a CL trophy.

[fakeyank]

Like AVB did for the chavs ? depends if its a decent manager or a pub team one tbh.

Capello is available and I am sure there is at least a few more with good credentials to take over AW.

[fakeyank]

Worst post of the year.

And your argument being...? Ahh got it :rolleyes:

[Letters]

Right now is what 5 games?

Well no, we've played more than 5 games this season.

We're well into the season and are only a point behind the Spuds, a team who everyone has been sucking the cock of all season. Most people on here, me included at times, thought we were destined for mid-table this year. Now we're looking like a good side again and, more importantly, looking like a team. They look like they've got more steel about them, they've been behind in the last 4 league games and won the lot, we showed a lot of fight last week against AC Milan. It was all for nought in the end but you have to be proud of their efforts that night.

If you're going to (rightly) slate Wenger for our failings you have to give a bit of credit where it's due when we're doing better.
There are pretty good arguments on both sides I reckon but don't act like it's a couple of games here and there. I accept there have been false dawns before but it's the spirit of the side which is impressing me right now and it's ridiculous to give Wenger no credit for that. Whether we keep the momentum going remains to be seen of course.

[fakeyank]

Well no, we've played more than 5 games this season.

We're well into the season and are only a point behind the Spuds, a team who everyone has been sucking the cock of all season. Most people on here, me included at times, thought we were destined for mid-table this year. Now we're looking like a good side again and, more importantly, looking like a team. They look like they've got more steel about them, they've been behind in the last 4 league games and won the lot, we showed a lot of fight last week against AC Milan. It was all for nought in the end but you have to be proud of their efforts that night.

If you're going to (rightly) slate Wenger for our failings you have to give a bit of credit where it's due when we're doing better.
There are pretty good arguments on both sides I reckon but don't act like it's a couple of games here and there. I accept there have been false dawns before but it's the spirit of the side which is impressing me right now and it's ridiculous to give Wenger no credit for that. Whether we keep the momentum going remains to be seen of course.

Like I said earlier, this happens every season. We seem to be gelling together and putting runs but we always deceive. I'll ignore the Utd debacle but where was the spirit in the FA cup game against Sunderland, the CL away game at Milan?

You have got to be honest.. you started this thread not thinking about the season so far rather because we have put a very good run together. I am actually super surprised that people's mind change so fast! A few weeks back, we had a 25-30% people that wanted AW to stay and fast forward those weeks and now they want him to stay!! Fans have the memory of a gold fish!!! Look at the bigger picture ppl.. same shit different season!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Like I said earlier, this happens every season. We seem to be gelling together and putting runs but we always deceive. I'll ignore the Utd debacle but where was the spirit in the FA cup game against Sunderland, the CL away game at Milan?

You have got to be honest.. you started this thread not thinking about the season so far rather because we have put a very good run together. I am actually super surprised that people's mind change so fast! A few weeks back, we had a 25-30% people that wanted AW to stay and fast forward those weeks and now they want him to stay!! Fans have the memory of a gold fish!!! Look at the bigger picture ppl.. same shit different season!

Don't think no one who said he should go then has changed their mind on what they said then. No one is getting carried away because of the last few wins or jumping up and down no. Should a new manager come in imo yes however if one does not will i back AW next season yes because he will manage the club i love, don't mean id be happy him still being here though.

[Alpha]

Wenger out ? that is the best Arsenal joke of the season . You can't change a top manager if you won't replace him with a better on . Wenger in .

[fakeyank]

Don't think no one who said he should go then has changed their mind on what they said then. No one is getting carried away because of the last few wins or jumping up and down no. Should a new manager come in imo yes however if one does not will i back AW next season yes because he will manage the club i love, don't mean id be happy him still being here though.

Numbers show that people changed their mind. Look at the poll numbers mate..

I will support my team irrespective of who is in charge.. question is do I want AW to be that man?! HELL NO!

[fakeyank]

Wenger out ? that is the best Arsenal joke of the season . You can't change a top manager if you won't replace him with a better on . Wenger in .

When AW was signed, did you know who he was? How many of you had RVP's smile from last night when he signed in 96? I'd think no one... so why not get someone who looks promising and can do a good job?

If we want a 100% top manager, there is Capello & Riijkard (off the top of my head)

[Letters]

Like I said earlier, this happens every season. We seem to be gelling together and putting runs but we always deceive. I'll ignore the Utd debacle but where was the spirit in the FA cup game against Sunderland, the CL away game at Milan?

You have got to be honest.. you started this thread not thinking about the season so far rather because we have put a very good run together. I am actually super surprised that people's mind change so fast! A few weeks back, we had a 25-30% people that wanted AW to stay and fast forward those weeks and now they want him to stay!! Fans have the memory of a gold fish!!! Look at the bigger picture ppl.. same shit different season!

I started the thread because I was interested to see whether, like me, others were reconsidering this whole issue in the light of recent games and results. Yes, football fans are fickle. That is not new news. But I'd say that the good run contains enough significant games to make people feel differently and with some justification. It's always nice to beat Spurs, Liverpool away is always a tricky game (I know they're not having a good season but they hadn't lost at home in the league before we went there), the Milan game was a brilliant effort and last night we had to win to put some real pressure on the Spurs and we did. In all the league games we went behind and ended up winning. I think that's significant.

I have said in this thread that if we now collapse then I'll probably change my mind again but right now I'm feeling good about Arsenal. I agree that earlier in the season there was a run where we looked good and it all fell apart but I don't think anyone expected us to pick ourselves up again and go on a run which would put us in the top 4 and right on the heels of Spurs. I think Wenger and the team deserve some credit for that. And as I've said the Podolski rumours encourage me that the board and Wenger realise we need to do more in the transfer market.

Ultimately I'll judge us at the end of the season but right now I'm encouraged by what's going on. Whether I remain so depends, as always, on results and performances.

[Dog Toffee]

He's getting old, so the Wenger out brigade will get what they want sooner or later (he'll die one day so they can have a party then). But as we may finish 3rd and got further in the CL than all other english teams and RvP will finish top scorer in the PL (and probably get PL player of the year award) I'd hardly say he'll be fired, and he wont quit. He'll retire in a few seasons and then have the stadium named after him and have his face imprinted on our shirts forever.

In fact AW's such a God we should retire the manager position after he leaves as a sign of respect.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It becomes a lot easier question to answer when you lose three league matches in a row, make inexplicable substitutions and your team crashes out of the fa cup with a limp performance.

Wenger's mandate it seems is to make sure the club finish in the top four every season, and considering the shocking summer transfer debacle including the sale of the our two best players than in itself will probably stand as an excellent achievement should we finish what we have we so constructively and doggedly started in the last five league games (as well as being aided by good fortune in the respective collapse of both Chelsea and spurs).

The question still remains over stagnation - we can't rely on spurs, Liverpool etc to not improve and if we don't show more ambition they will rightly overtake us.

Also we are looking at the possibility of entering the club's longest period of not winning a trophy for fifty years if we fail to win any silverware next season, finishing in the top four for it's own sake is a pretty bleak and redundant thing to do. Wenger needs to address the inconsistencies and slumps in form that have invariably left us empty handed for the last six/seven seasons and have become as each season passes increasingly predictable, obviously being more assertive in the transfer market is not really the all in one solution some of us might believe it to be......we can point to the fact that we are deficient in key areas this season but I feel we had a perfect balance in our team in 2007/2008 and still we hit the mental block when it came to the crunch.
As much as I think Van Persie is a fantastic player, can he really lead by example....to be honest no i don't think he can, anymore than Fabregas or Henry could....a captain is someone who did what Vermaelen did last night, a centre-back running the entire length of the pitch to be there in the box if the ball fell to him....this is not a criticism of Van Persie but generally i don't think flair players or forwards make good captains because their skill is unique and they cannot expect everyone around them to match their talent.
I think playing with Vermaelen has made Koscielny a much better defender, to the point where the training wheels have been removed and he is just as effective even in the absence of his centre-back partner.
I think Wenger has been allowed to take on too much responsibility at the club and he has made poor decisions (most notably giving big financial rewards in terms of long-term big money contracts to players based on potential rather than achievement) he should go back to being the manager, not the manager and the conduit through which every of the club runs. I also think the club should encourage him to refresh his day to day backroom staff and maybe even groom a successor (perhaps the way Ferguson may be doing with Ryan Giggs).
I am unsure whether Wenger can take the club forward, I certainly don't believe he can without significant change to his transfer policy and without certain tweaking of his footballing mantra. If he can't bring success I would favor someone else that can.
But I make no qualms about this it's with Wenger that I want this club to succeed, I have said much about wanting him to go simply because I put my love of Arsenal football club far above any personal regard i have for the man but I would derive much more satisfaction from us winning trophies under Wenger than a new man, but the jury is still out for me on whether he can deliver.

[BOBN]

He is still out injured because our club tried to rush him back and he sustained a second stress fracture.
Hes was ready to fack off to the kiddy euros until the club had to basically beg him not to and convince him with graphs and stuff.

Maybe next time he will stfu and follow orders from people who know more than him.

[Dog Toffee]

Ha.

[Syn]

Hes was ready to fack off to the kiddy euros until the club had to basically beg him not to and convince him with graphs and stuff.

Maybe next time he will stfu and follow orders from people who know more than him.

Aye. It has worked out superbly for him this season.

[Özim]

People have short memories, it's the 2nd time this season I hear this we've turned the corner stuff........we got hammered by Man Utd (it truly was one of the most embarrassing moments as an Arsenal fan), thrashed by Milan, beaten by bottom placed Blackburn in humiliating style and we were out of everything by February...in addition this has been happening for 6 years now....do people never learn?

Wenger seems to have more lives than a cat, the recent run will be exactly what it is a short run which will soon end and see us go back on a losing run, he's had 6 years to get this right and has failed at the end of the day, he's had his chance and this little run changes nothing for me.....we've lost a lot of games this season.

I've seen this before, the mini run which convinced Wenger and some others that all is good, when it really matters and the pressure is on this team will always bottle, the fact is the manager lacks the key skills to build a winning side without true leaders on the pitch, RVP has been amazing this season no question but if he was to get injured where would the goals come from....only luck on that side has kept us in with any chance of top 4 (and it is luck rather than judgment because as much as I think he's a great player, he's been a crock all his career and it was wreckless to rely on him).

[Özim]

Numbers show that people changed their mind. Look at the poll numbers mate..

I will support my team irrespective of who is in charge.. question is do I want AW to be that man?! HELL NO!
Totally agree, it takes a few results and everything's rosy, this is the 2nd time this has happened this season alone!

6 years of failure and the same problems manifesting themselves doesn't seem to convince people, I don't get it to be honest.

[Power n Glory]

People have short memories, it's the 2nd time this season I hear this we've turned the corner stuff........we got hammered by Man Utd (it truly was one of the most embarrassing moments as an Arsenal fan), thrashed by Milan, beaten by bottom placed Blackburn in humiliating style and we were out of everything by February...in addition this has been happening for 6 years now....do people never learn?

Wenger seems to have more lives than a cat, the recent run will be exactly what it is a short run which will soon end and see us go back on a losing run, he's had 6 years to get this right and has failed at the end of the day, he's had his chance and this little run changes nothing for me.....we've lost a lot of games this season.

I've seen this before, the mini run which convinced Wenger and some others that all is good, when it really matters and the pressure is on this team will always bottle, the fact is the manager lacks the key skills to build a winning side without true leaders on the pitch, RVP has been amazing this season no question but if he was to get injured where would the goals come from....only luck on that side has kept us in with any chance of top 4 (and it is luck rather than judgment because as much as I think he's a great player, he's been a crock all his career and it was wreckless to rely on him).

That's the point I was trying to stress. The team only seems to perform when everyone has written them off. We've seen this before and this is the second time people have talked about us turning a corner. We've shown great character but if we need Wenger and the Board to show some balls this summer. If we drag our heels this summer, then we're on the same cycle as usual.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

One thing is for certain, were it any other big club, AW or any other manager would have been given marching orders long ago.

I think the slogan 'Arsene knows' became too literal and bolstered AW's arrogance. I have listened to a few of his press conferences, especially the ones around the time when the pressure was on to buy a few players, and all I could think was what a fucking €unt this bloke has become.

The board became equally culpable when they began to settle for poor results in exchange for balanced books. How long can they continue to put the cart before the horse? Fans should start boycotting games and send them a message that we've had enough of the lessening of expectations season after season. How do you leave from finishing a season unbeaten with the title to not being able to win one piece of silverware in 7 seasons? #Unfuckinimaginable!

[Letters]

when it really matters and the pressure is on this team will always bottle

Was the pressure not on at 2-0 down vs Spurs when we'd been on a bad run and the crowd started turning?
Was the pressure not on last night when Spurs had slipped up and we needed to capitalize?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

One thing is for certain, were it any other big club, AW or any other manager would have been given marching orders long ago.

I think the slogan 'Arsene knows' became too literal and bolstered AW's arrogance. I have listened to a few of his press conferences, especially the ones around the time when the pressure was on to buy a few players, and all I could think was what a fucking €unt this bloke has become.

The board became equally culpable when they began to settle for poor results in exchange for balanced books. How long can they continue to put the cart before the horse? Fans should start boycotting games and send them a message that we've had enough of the lessening of expectations season after season. How do you leave from finishing a season unbeaten with the title to not being able to win one piece of silverware in 7 seasons? #Unfuckinimaginable!

Worked so well for Blackburn rovers fans.

[Letters]

Totally agree, it takes a few results and everything's rosy

No.

Are "everything's rosy" and "sack the manager" the only opinions one can hold? Nothing in between?

:rolleyes:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Totally agree, it takes a few results and everything's rosy, this is the 2nd time this has happened this season alone!

6 years of failure and the same problems manifesting themselves doesn't seem to convince people, I don't get it to be honest.

Nonsense, no one even said that or anything like that. people know where we stand but are enjoying how the team is playing that all, Its called supporting your team.

Does not make the fans less ambitious to think like this or would you prefer we lost those games and then moaned how bad the club is run etc? Stupid question or course you would.

[Letters]

Nonsense, no one even said that or anything like that. people know where we stand but are enjoying how the team is playing that all, Its called supporting your team.

When me and lots of other Gooners were jumping around last night after TV5's late goal, this was Zimm:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2408/2132149458_1ba7c571c2.jpg

It's weird. I've never known a supposed Gooner take so much delight in our failings and be so annoyed when we do well. :shrug:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

When me and lots of other Gooners were jumping around last night after TV5's late goal, this was Zimm:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2408/2132149458_1ba7c571c2.jpg

It's weird. I've never known a supposed Gooner take so much delight in our failings and be so annoyed when we do well. :shrug:

Glory hunters what do you expect, mind you we could have won the treble and he'd still have moaned. Easy to be say things like this on a board but if Zimm and others have had enough why don't they protest etc.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Worked so well for Blackburn rovers fans.

Thought we were discussing a big club here where its board members have become rotten spoil by fans buying tickets and attending games no matter how much they showed disregard for fans' pride and bragging rights.

[fakeyank]

Glory hunters what do you expect, mind you we could have won the treble and he'd still have moaned. Easy to be say things like this on a board but if Zimm and others have had enough why don't they protest etc.

Why is Zimm a glory hunter? I know he has been around as an Arsenal fan for a long long time.. if he was a glory hunter, he'd be posting on blue moon or rising moon or whatever their forum is. Zimm is just stating what has happened the last 6 seasons and asking us to change directions next season... whats wrong in that?
I dont know about him but I can say I am super happy with how the last few games have gone... however am I feeling over the moon thinking things have changed? Do I think we have turned the corner? NO! We have had too many false dawns with this manager.

[Globalgunner]

Wengers biggest is to con the people that next year will be better than this. He has done this for 8 seasons in a row now and we still dont see the road beyond the smokescreen. A majority seem to suffer the battered wife syndrome, where they feel it is better to stick with the pain than try the big bad world out there. I appreciate the positive results in the last month, but what about the crap the preceded it?. We were once 15th in the league 3 months or so into the season. Wenger digs us into a great hole and we stand marvelling and cheering as he scrapes his way out of it. Sure he hates losing but does winning really mean everthing to him. every season we spend more energy running to simply stay in the same spot. Is this what we believe is our lot. We stick with Wenger because he has done good in the past. He knows it and the board know it and the con game continues. Start of the season Wenger tells us he wants to win everything. By Xmas he tells us 4th is a trophy, by Easter we are out of everything. All we then say is next season. It is a crock. Remember a time when we used to go to OT and win?........Now we are like the spuds who have to mentally consign 6 points to the Mancs at the start of each season. Aston Villa, Forest can point to CL trophies, but our so called greatest manager ever just wants to qualify each year. Sure we can keep Wenger and expend more energy fending off the Spuds the hapless Reds and the Clueless blues. But rest assured Man City are here to stay. If Mancini bottles it this season I can bet you a handful of 50s that he will be sacked. There are better managers out there and if we hold on the the delusion that Wenger will lead us to the promised land we will miss out on them and spend possibly 30 years of our energetic years wondering how it never happened in our lifetimes.

[Letters]

One thing is for certain, were it any other big club, AW or any other manager would have been given marching orders long ago.

This is true. No other club at our level would have put up with that, but then no other club at our level has a board so obsessed with making money to the detriment of strengthening the squad. No-one really knows what's going on the club, the most rabid anti-Wenger people insist that the board are throwing money at him which he just plain refuses to spend because he's too stubborn to admit the squad aren't good enough or too principled to pay the sorts of amounts clubs demand. The opposite way of looking at it is Wenger is manfully battling away with a squad not good enough to compete because the board insist he make a profit every year and sell his best players to do so.

I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle of those two extremes as it tends to be.

Wenger's failure to deliver trophies is damning but his keeping us in the top 4 in an era of billionaires and other clubs spending far more than us in an attempt to overtake us (most of which have failed) is IMO fairly impressive. My fear has always been that post Wenger we'll get worse. I think some people have underestimated how hard it is to keep a team competitive in the PL these days. At times it's looked like there's not much to lose though. Now, I'm not so sure. We'll see what happens in the rest of the season, another collapse into 6th place and yeah, we might as well look elsewhere. Keep playing like we have, finish top 4 and the Podolski rumours pan out then we might just have something.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Why is Zimm a glory hunter? I know he has been around as an Arsenal fan for a long long time.. if he was a glory hunter, he'd be posting on blue moon or rising moon or whatever their forum is. Zimm is just stating what has happened the last 6 seasons and asking us to change directions next season... whats wrong in that?
I dont know about him but I can say I am super happy with how the last few games have gone... however am I feeling over the moon thinking things have changed? Do I think we have turned the corner? NO! We have had too many false dawns with this manager!

Never said he was not once in my post. and i understand how you feel but at least you post in threads when we win games not only when we loose unlike some. I agree A new manager should come in no problem with that, but does it mean because im enjoying how the team is playing now, i should be told i have a short memeorie or that i am accepting failure(no one said it today).

I just think people are happy for the now and feel what ever happens in the summer happens.

[Özim]

Was the pressure not on at 2-0 down vs Spurs when we'd been on a bad run and the crowd started turning?
Was the pressure not on last night when Spurs had slipped up and we needed to capitalize?
Not in the same way as it is when we're trying to win something no, against Spurs they were expected to win...at 2-0 down we had nothing to lose and yes we showed great fight but in reality it was from a no pressure situation.

Yesterday's result was great in the end, but I don't think we were under great pressure, 4th place is the goal not 3rd.

[Cripps_orig]

All this run has done is make Wenger think that this team has it and therefore will not buy the quality we need during the summer

And we will go around in circles again next season, same as this season and the last and the last and so on.

[fakeyank]

Wengers biggest is to con the people that next year will be better than this. He has done this for 8 seasons in a row now and we still dont see the road beyond the smokescreen. A majority seem to suffer the battered wife syndrome, where they feel it is better to stick with the pain than try the big bad world out there. I appreciate the positive results in the last month, but what about the crap the preceded it?. We were once 15th in the league 3 months or so into the season. Wenger digs us into a great hole and we stand marvelling and cheering as he scrapes his way out of it. Sure he hates losing but does winning really mean everthing to him. every season we spend more energy running to simply stay in the same spot. Is this what we believe is our lot. We stick with Wenger because he has done good in the past. He knows it and the board know it and the con game continues. Start of the season Wenger tells us he wants to win everything. By Xmas he tells us 4th is a trophy, by Easter we are out of everything. All we then say is next season. It is a crock. Remember a time when we used to go to OT and win?........Now we are like the spuds who have to mentally consign 6 points to the Mancs at the start of each season. Aston Villa, Forest can point to CL trophies, but our so called greatest manager ever just wants to qualify each year. Sure we can keep Wenger and expend more energy fending off the Spuds the hapless Reds and the Clueless blues. But rest assured Man City are here to stay. If Mancini bottles it this season I can bet you a handful of 50s that he will be sacked. There are better managers out there and if we hold on the the delusion that Wenger will lead us to the promised land we will miss out on them and spend possibly 30 years of our energetic years wondering how it never happened in our lifetimes.

:gp:

Top fucking post mate.. the battered wife syndrome is exactly how most fans are now. :clap:

[Coney]

Not in the same way as it is when we're trying to win something no, against Spurs they were expected to win...at 2-0 down we had nothing to lose and yes we showed great fight but in reality it was from a no pressure situation.

Yesterday's result was great in the end, but I don't think we were under great pressure, 4th place is the goal not 3rd.

Crap. To make sure we get 4th, we have to win to stay ahead of Chavs. Getting 3rd would be even better but a draw would put us in peril of chavs catching us.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Thought we were discussing a big club here where its board members have become rotten spoil by fans buying tickets and attending games no matter how much they showed disregard for fans' pride and bragging rights.

We are but do protests even work, i don't think so, look at UTD who's fans did the yellow and green scarf nonsense and that failed, so what chance would we have with a baord who don't seem to care.

Unless a new man takes over the club completely or we have 1 owner not much will change with this board that just how it is.

[Özim]

Crap. To make sure we get 4th, we have to win to stay ahead of Chavs. Getting 3rd would be even better but a draw would put us in peril of chavs catching us.
A draw would have kept us ahead anyway.

[Letters]

Why is Zimm a glory hunter?

Because he only cares about the final result of a season. And he only judges that by what trophies we have or haven't won. If you follow a club through the journey of a season with all its ups and downs then you'll know that a season can be very enjoyable even if you don't win anything and it can be pretty rubbish but end up with a trophy which makes it bearable.


I am super happy with how the last few games have gone... however am I feeling over the moon thinking things have changed? Do I think we have turned the corner? NO! We have had too many false dawns with this manager.

That's a reasonable position and you may well be right. The rest of this season will go some way to showing whether you're right or not.

[Coney]

A draw would have kept us ahead anyway.

... and right in range. We need clear water between us. There are a lot of games to play yet. If this was the last week of the season, that would be different.

[Özim]

All this run has done is make Wenger think that this team has it and therefore will not buy the quality we need during the summer

And we will go around in circles again next season, same as this season and the last and the last and so on..
Agree with this, the last thing we wanted if for him to think all is good which he will do after a mini run, he always does.

He just seems to be able to forget everything that has gone before after a few good results, I've never seen a manager who can discount all the defeats and poor results like Wenger does and just change his mind so quickly after a short run of wins.

[Marc Overmars]

"Battered wife syndrome" :lol:

[Letters]

Not in the same way as it is when we're trying to win something no, against Spurs they were expected to win...at 2-0 down we had nothing to lose and yes we showed great fight but in reality it was from a no pressure situation.

Yesterday's result was great in the end, but I don't think we were under great pressure, 4th place is the goal not 3rd.

I see. So it's only when we lose a 'high pressure' game that you deem it high pressure.
If we'd have lost last night people would have been VERY quick to say we 'bottled it' (there was a post in the match thread before the game predicting we would if Spurs lost). Even if 4th place is the goal then Chelsea's win at the weekend put pressure on last night.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wengers biggest is to con the people that next year will be better than this. He has done this for 8 seasons in a row now and we still dont see the road beyond the smokescreen. A majority seem to suffer the battered wife syndrome, where they feel it is better to stick with the pain than try the big bad world out there. I appreciate the positive results in the last month, but what about the crap the preceded it?. We were once 15th in the league 3 months or so into the season. Wenger digs us into a great hole and we stand marvelling and cheering as he scrapes his way out of it. Sure he hates losing but does winning really mean everthing to him. every season we spend more energy running to simply stay in the same spot. Is this what we believe is our lot. We stick with Wenger because he has done good in the past. He knows it and the board know it and the con game continues. Start of the season Wenger tells us he wants to win everything. By Xmas he tells us 4th is a trophy, by Easter we are out of everything. All we then say is next season. It is a crock. Remember a time when we used to go to OT and win?........Now we are like the spuds who have to mentally consign 6 points to the Mancs at the start of each season. Aston Villa, Forest can point to CL trophies, but our so called greatest manager ever just wants to qualify each year. Sure we can keep Wenger and expend more energy fending off the Spuds the hapless Reds and the Clueless blues. But rest assured Man City are here to stay. If Mancini bottles it this season I can bet you a handful of 50s that he will be sacked. There are better managers out there and if we hold on the the delusion that Wenger will lead us to the promised land we will miss out on them and spend possibly 30 years of our energetic years wondering how it never happened in our lifetimes.

And rightly so, if he spends stupid money and can't win the league then he deserves to be sacked in truth. He knew his targets his employers set and in their eyes if he fails he is gone. I do agree with the rest of this post though.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Agree with this, the last thing we wanted if for him to think all is good which he will do after a mini run, he always does.

He just seems to be able to forget everything that has gone before after a few good results, I've never seen a manager who can discount all the defeats and poor results like Wenger does and just change his mind so quickly after a short run of wins.

So you rather we lost to spurs, top Arsenal fan you are.

[Cripps_orig]

So you rather we lost to spurs to Arsenal fan you are.:blink:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

All this run has done is make Wenger think that this team has it and therefore will not buy the quality we need during the summer

And we will go around in circles again next season, same as this season and the last and the last and so on.

So you would have loved us to loose to spurs and pool then? Then you must have been really happy when we went out the CL then.

[Cripps_orig]

So you would have loved us to loose to spurs and pool then? Then you must have been really happy when we went out the CL then.Yes cos thats what i really said

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yes cos thats what i really said

Had we lost those other 2 games we not have been where we are and Wenger would most probs go, which would have made you happy no? So its more or less what you said.

[Özim]

I see. So it's only when we lose a 'high pressure' game that you deem it high pressure.
If we'd have lost last night people would have been VERY quick to say we 'bottled it' (there was a post in the match thread before the game predicting we would if Spurs lost). Even if 4th place is the goal then Chelsea's win at the weekend put pressure on last night.
We can't win anything this season, there's nothing to bottle.

Yes we're fighting for 4th place, it's a joke you should have a chance of getting in the CL with that to be honest, 4th place isn't an achievment it's a sign that failure is now acceptable.

It's not all about winning but for a big club progress is important and seeing the team move forward is important, it's been 6 years and we're no closer to winning anything that we were then, in fact we're further away....that's not progress.

[Letters]

Wengers biggest is to con the people that next year will be better than this.

I don't remember him ever saying that.


A majority seem to suffer the battered wife syndrome, where they feel it is better to stick with the pain than try the big bad world out there. I appreciate the positive results in the last month, but what about the crap the preceded it?. We were once 15th in the league 3 months or so into the season.

Well, no we weren't. We were 7th after 3 months, 3 points off of 3rd place (that was on 19th November, just over 3 months in). We were low down very early in the season after our car crash of a start but so what? Surely it matters where you finish, not where you are after 5 games or whatever.

The rest of your post makes some sense (apart from the bit about writing off 6 points to Utd, before this season they'd done the double over us 2 years ago but that's the only time I could see for a long time, we beat them at the tail end of last season). Are there better managers out there? Well yes, there probably are. But I don't think there are that many and unless we pick a new manager very carefully I'd say there's a good chance we'll get worse after Wenger, not better.

[Cripps_orig]

Had we lost those other 2 games we not have been where we are and Wenger would most probs go, which would have made you happy no? So its more or less what you said.Wenger leaving would make most fans happy. Did they all want us to lose?

Think before posting plskthx

[Letters]

It's not all about winning but for a big club progress is important and seeing the team move forward is important, it's been 6 years and we're no closer to winning anything that we were then, in fact we're further away....that's not progress.

Well I agree with that. The last month or so has been a bit of progress though. We've started to look good again and shown a bit of fight in games where we'd had setbacks. Not something we were doing much last season. If the Podolski thing is true then that is progress too, it shows a certain ambition. As I said, we'll see what happens for the rest of this season. If we crumble again then the last month or so has been another false dawn. If we keep the momentum going and finish strongly and then sign Podolski then I'd see that as some sign of heading in the right direction after, I'd agree, too long moving in the wrong one.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wenger leaving would make most fans happy. Did they all want us to lose?

Think before posting plskthx

No but none of them are dumb enough to post nonsense about this Run like you have.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We can't win anything this season, there's nothing to bottle.

Yes we're fighting for 4th place, it's a joke you should have a chance of getting in the CL with that to be honest, 4th place isn't an achievment it's a sign that failure is now acceptable.

It's not all about winning but for a big club progress is important and seeing the team move forward is important, it's been 6 years and we're no closer to winning anything that we were then, in fact we're further away....that's not progress.

3rd actually lol. But your right, we should be challenging for trophies that much is real and that is what we'd all like to see. But nothing is going to change between now and summer(as in Aw won't go) so only choice fans have is to support this club for the rest of the season. If we fail to get 4th then fine Wenger out even if we get 4th the board have to think hard if they feel he is the right man and the direction of the club.

If they stick with him and he changes his ways ill back him to the hill as our manager.

[Cripps_orig]

No but none of them are dumb enough to post nonsense about this Run like you have.And what nonsense would this be?

That Wenger wont buy quality?

I hope to god im proved wrong. History and Wenger suggests i wont be.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

And what nonsense would this be?

That Wenger wont buy quality?

I hope to god im proved wrong. History and Wenger suggests i wont be.

Like you say history will tell us he won't no problem with that, just found it odd you seemed upset that we was on this run, because it may make wenger feel like he has a team etc.

Ill be happy to see this run go on, not because i think AW is going to change and spend lots not because it will bring us success but its because its the team i love and even though the pressure is off its good to see the fight. This lot could have gave in and went on holidays but they never and for that i'm proud of the effort.

Once the season is over we can only hope the board and AW see light, whether it be him deciding to leave/them sacking him or the club changing its attitude. What ever happend as long as its right for the team id back it even if it mean we got Jose.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

We are but do protests even work, i don't think so, look at UTD who's fans did the yellow and green scarf nonsense and that failed, so what chance would we have with a baord who don't seem to care.

Unless a new man takes over the club completely or we have 1 owner not much will change with this board that just how it is.

I get your gist but I think in our case, we have the advantage of profit hungry board members who would definitely pay some attention to any form of reduced revenue.

[Letters]

And what nonsense would this be?

That Wenger wont buy quality?

I hope to god im proved wrong. History and Wenger suggests i wont be.

Didn't he sign Theo? :whistle:

[Cripps_orig]

Didn't he sign Theo? :whistle:That was in January tbf

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I get your gist but I think in our case, we have the advantage of profit hungry board members who would definitely pay some attention to any form of reduced revenue.

Think people should do one and are free too but no one seems to want too.

[Mr. Lahey]

Isnt it interesting that these last few wins come after we have been knocked out of every competition? Now some are saying: there is something different about this team, the mentality is different, there is more steel etc...No there isnt lol. The pressure is off for the most part, yes we have 3rd/4th to play for but thats what we play for EVERY season. We have imploded at pretty much every opportunity we have had. This season is not different from any other season other than the fact that we have one RVP who has been scoring for fun. Wenger has changed hardly anything and we are no better than we have been in past seasons. So why should he stay? **awaits someone to mention point totals from past seasons**

If you want him to stay for reasons other than what goes on, on the pitch than I would like to be enlightened as to what he offers in this respect. Wenger has signed lots of mediocre players, let the quality ones go for cheap and have signed lots of awful contracts of late. He also has a pop at the fans when ever any of his decisions gets questioned and could care less about what hardworking people who put lots of money into the club think. For me hes turned into a massive wanker in the present. I will never forget what he has done at Arsenal and he will always be a legend but presently hes waaaaaayyyy past it.

Id love to have someone like Moyes here. The guy spends very littlle and still gets the best out of his players. I could only imagine what he would do with more resources, I reckon he could do a better job than Wenger does on the pitch these days, easily.

[Ernesto]

I feel very proud to be be an Arsenal fan when the media discuss long-standing managers and Wenger is there, a comfortable second, behind Ferguson. For the best part of 16 years, he has been successful (albeit RELATIVELY successful in more recent years to big-spending clubs in the league), he has hauled Arsenal into a brand, spanking new f***-off stadium and he has had to deal with an incredibly xenophobic, hounding press.

All this being said, it seems absurd to want to kick him to the kerb, to sack him with nothing, especially based on recent performances and particularly if he can guarantee Champions League football in the very same close season that he was given his P45 (something that other club managers ?Dalglish? would be lauded for)

I'd hope (and this is a far cry from what I was thinking in August and January) that in an ideal world, Wenger would be privy (OK, I don't even know what that means) to picking his own successor and that we could be patient with a new man at the helm. I'd also like to think that a new guy would be as passionate about the club as Wenger is. Whether we're on a bad run or a good'un, it's clear as day that AW has the very best interests of the club at heart.

[Power n Glory]

While pride has been lifted a little, it would probably be best for Wenger to just step away and retire. I can't see us winning anything under him again.

Take the two Milan games as an example. When under pressure for the first tie, we buckled badly. Everyone had written off our chances and the pressure was off. Second tie, the team score 3 goals in the first half and some pride has been restored, but the pressure to get the 4th goal was too much for them and we were nervy in the 2nd half. That's the story of our last few years.

[Marc Overmars]

Judging by the swing in this poll to the last one, a lot of people have feigned their discontent IMHO.

[Flavs]

Yep sack the ****

[KSE Comedy Club]

Judging by the swing in this poll to the last one, a lot of people have feigned their discontent IMHO.
Or a lot of people have maybe changed their minds or are unsure as to what to feel/think about the situation.

Is that not aloud on goonersweb?

[LDG]

Pressure?

Of course there's pressure.

With 80% of Arsenal fans baying for blood post Milan / Sunderland, this team were under immense pressure, not only to get us out of the slump, but to go and beat our local rivals who have been crowing their cockerel arses off, and to stop rotting off down to mid-table.

The pressure has been massive. And if you can't feel that, given the outpouring of relief, extacy and pride at the recent results, then you don't really have your heart in it yourself.

We should be doing better. There is no doubt about that. And I think this time round, there is no room for error. If we collapse again and fail to buy, nobody will believe in this set up. 100% of fans will want Wenger out. Pure and simple.

But if we carry on the way we have just recently and do the business we need to in summer, he should stay and see where we get to.

[Letters]

You can bet your house that the people now saying there's been no great pressure on recent games would have been the first to say we'd 'bottled it' had we lost those games. Some people have a clear anti-Wenger agenda and will do anything to belittle or dismiss any good run of form lest they inadvertently give him any credit.

[Flavs]

the return of two fit full backs has helped massively as well and the form of Rosicky. Great timing for the team and the manager

[LDG]

the return of two fit full backs has helped massively as well and the form of Rosicky. Great timing for the team and the manager

Well yeah. It's nice to have players playing, fit and on form. These things do make a difference :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

Or a lot of people have maybe changed their minds or are unsure as to what to feel/think about the situation.

Is that not aloud on goonersweb?

Of course it is mate, people are perfectly entitled to their own opinion. I just believe that if 4 games is enough to 'change' an opinion on removing the manager, then one can't have felt strongly enough about it in the first place.

[Letters]

Of course it is mate, people are perfectly entitled to their own opinion. I just believe that if 4 games is enough to 'change' an opinion on removing the manager, then one can't have felt strongly enough about it in the first place.

I don't remember a huge clamouring for his sacking at the turn of the year when our win vs QPR put us 4th. A few games then seemed to be enough to sour a lot of people's moods. This season has been a roller-coaster during which my mood about the team and manager have been all over the shop.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't remember a huge clamouring for his sacking at the turn of the year when our win vs QPR put us 4th. A few games then seemed to be enough to sour a lot of people's moods. This season has been a roller-coaster during which my mood about the team and manager have been all over the shop.

The clamour might not have been there but personally I've felt we've needed a change all season, that's always been an underlying feeling. Wenger made a terrible mistake in not anticipating the departures of Nasri and Fabregas and we suffered for it, that's when I really felt it's probably time for him to go. The form of the team has had no bearing because I believe strongly enough now that Wenger's time is up. Only a drastic improvment was going to change that, by that I mean a title challenge and a cup run, neither of which have happened.

I'll be the first to hold my hands up if we're here this time next year competing for honours, I'd love for Wenger to succeed again with us but I don't see it happening for him now. The last few weeks have been awesome but it's also left me confused and wondering why we aren't competitive enough when it matters. Ok you can argue that 4th place matters and we've done well to haul ourselves into contention for that but is that really the height of what we can hope to achieve now?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Of course it is mate, people are perfectly entitled to their own opinion. I just believe that if 4 games is enough to 'change' an opinion on removing the manager, then one can't have felt strongly enough about it in the first place.

So your saying a few fans are fickle? Personally alot of this AW out stuff is Knee Jerk imo. There are a few posters who genuinely want him out and are right in the reasons but there are also those who will say things in heat which they won't say 2 weeks later when the dust is settled.

[Flavs]

Its not a few games though is it, its the cyclical nature of our team and how they perform. Even bringing in all this experience hasn't stopped it.

Start slow...get real good...be shit for a while...good...really good...really really really shit....better....best.....die at the end.

Its been the same season after season for the last 5 years ffs. We always have shit loads of injuries, always get buried in awful PR propaganda from the club and always suffer the same bullshit from Wenger and Gazidis and nothing really changes, we still flatter to deceive that we are a good side and then just when you have a smile on your face and a spring in your step up pop Hull or WBA to beat us at home.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't remember a huge clamouring for his sacking at the turn of the year when our win vs QPR put us 4th. A few games then seemed to be enough to sour a lot of people's moods. This season has been a roller-coaster during which my mood about the team and manager have been all over the shop.

Totally agree, id say getting 3rd would be an achievement as people did not think we'd even finsish top 7 at xmas tbh. No way id say its Success though. For me id love us to succeed under wenger but having seen the mistakes he had made and not corrected them had made me skeptical to think, he can change his ways.

Don't think he will be sacked it will never happen but id like him to walk away with pride.

[LDG]

Its not a few games though is it, its the cyclical nature of our team and how they perform. Even bringing in all this experience hasn't stopped it.

Start slow...get real good...be shit for a while...good...really good...really really really shit....better....best.....die at the end.

Its been the same season after season for the last 5 years ffs. We always have shit loads of injuries, always get buried in awful PR propaganda from the club and always suffer the same bullshit from Wenger and Gazidis and nothing really changes, we still flatter to deceive that we are a good side and then just when you have a smile on your face and a spring in your step up pop Hull or WBA to beat us at home.

:ilt:

[LDG]

One thing fans do, season after season, is hope. I've always got excited about a new season, though this year was different. I was worried, big time.

But this lot have me hoping again. And,when you start getting that feeling, as a fan, nothing can stop me dreaming.

We may well collapse again. We may well buy two unknown french africans in the transfer window.

I'd rather think positive and take the positives from the last few games. The fans CAN help the team. And the unwavering support from the home crowd just recently, has gone hand in hand with the players performance. Likewise the effort has made the fans get behind them.

If there is one thing we can learn, is that we're all in it together, and rather than cast doubt, or stipulate a change in management, I'd rather keep the vibe going until the end of the season. And Wenger is right in that....we ALL need to do it together as a club. We may lose a game or two, but I think we should also remember that we have a part to play, win lose or draw, to keep getting behind the team, like we did, 4-0 down to Milan, without a hope.

Get in there Arsenal :scarf:

[IBK]

Well no, we've played more than 5 games this season.

We're well into the season and are only a point behind the Spuds, a team who everyone has been sucking the cock of all season. Most people on here, me included at times, thought we were destined for mid-table this year. Now we're looking like a good side again and, more importantly, looking like a team. They look like they've got more steel about them, they've been behind in the last 4 league games and won the lot, we showed a lot of fight last week against AC Milan. It was all for nought in the end but you have to be proud of their efforts that night.

If you're going to (rightly) slate Wenger for our failings you have to give a bit of credit where it's due when we're doing better.
There are pretty good arguments on both sides I reckon but don't act like it's a couple of games here and there. I accept there have been false dawns before but it's the spirit of the side which is impressing me right now and it's ridiculous to give Wenger no credit for that. Whether we keep the momentum going remains to be seen of course.

Sensible stuff. People can talk about us being fickle if we are now in two minds about wenger after 5 games, but its simple really - the manner in which the team has played, and the spirit that they have shown demonstrates that the manager has not lost his players, and that Wenger has not forgotten how to make a team tick.

People grumble about CL football being regarded as an achievement - but we have to look at our current league position in context. It is almost impossible to compete with Citeh's wealth - the fact that Manure have been able to do so is a testament to the talent of the best British manager the country has ever seen - and even Manure are considerably better resourced than we are. Behind them - well we are just a point behind the team that have been the media's darlings all season, and who have repeatedly been described as having a far better/deeper squad than we have. Not bad going for what has been our worst season in recent years. Behind us are the Chavs - who have shown precisely what can happen when you decide a change of manager is the solution to underperformance...and look at Liverpool who appointed a club legend as manager, have spent shit-loads and may well not be playing European football at all next season.

We have to accept that the league is ever more competetive. If a new manager were to come in and finish 3rd or 4th any sensible fan would regard that as a decent achievement.

Also, we have to look at other factors. People bemoan our lack of consistency, pointing out that we have had good runs before and then the wheels have come off. Well, they have never come off sufficiently for us to lose a European place. Unlike Spurs. Unlike Liverpool. Unlike possibly the Chavs this season. We do need to keep things in context.

Then look at what we have had to contend with this season. Our captain and best player, and another 2 important players leaving over the Summer, in very disruptive circumstances. Even Citeh would have struggled if they had lost Ya Ya Toure and Silva. What if Manure had lost Rooney and Valencia? Even with resources, your best players are difficult to replace, and them leaving will disrupt/weaken a team - at least temporarily. And thats before we even get to our season-long injury crisis. We have lost arguably our best midfielder for the entire season, and played half the season without a left back. Its no coincidence that our team looks far more balanced and far more threatening with Gibbs and Sagna back.

We rightly criticise the manager's decision making - and we had a miserable Summer, and have suffered from Wenger's stubbornness in not ringing in proper cover - particularly up front (although that particular gamble has worked so far). But lets in fairness look at the things he has got right. We criticise his perserverance with the likes of Ramsey, Djourou, Walcott - but he perservered also with RVP and Rosicky through years of injury. He seems to have bought duds in Chamakh; Park but Koscielny; Oxlade; Arteta; Mertesacker have all been shrewd signings. Jenkinson and Santos both showed glimpses of potential before their respective long term injuries. For a last minute panic mass buy - last Summer's signings, while disruptive in the short term, may well largely prove to be suceessful ones. It is not an easy thing to pull off mass successful signings.

Wenger still has much to prove - for the rest of the season and over the Summer - but where we are now, as opposed to a month ago, is that there is reason to hope that he can get it right.

[Syn]

I'd rather think positive and take the positives from the last few games. The fans CAN help the team. And the unwavering support from the home crowd just recently, has gone hand in hand with the players performance. Likewise the effort has made the fans get behind them.

Seemed like the crowd were giving Krul a hard time right from the start. I didn't think he was wasting too much time but the fans were drawing attention to it. It's possible that 5 mins added on could've been 4 mins had it not been for the crowd being petulant and booing the fuck out of him.

[dazthegooner]

Durging the season I was on of the people that thought it was time for him to go not changed my mind 100% but if we keep going on the way we are and make a couple of quality signings(and get rid of the deadwood) will give him the benefit of the doubt but if things are still the same January bye bye Wenger!

[LDG]

Sensible stuff. People can talk about us being fickle if we are now in two minds about wenger after 5 games, but its simple really - the manner in which the team has played, and the spirit that they have shown demonstrates that the manager has not lost his players, and that Wenger has not forgotten how to make a team tick.

People grumble about CL football being regarded as an achievement - but we have to look at our current league position in context. It is almost impossible to compete with Citeh's wealth - the fact that Manure have been able to do so is a testament to the talent of the best British manager the country has ever seen - and even Manure are considerably better resourced than we are. Behind them - well we are just a point behind the team that have been the media's darlings all season, and who have repeatedly been described as having a far better/deeper squad than we have. Not bad going for what has been our worst season in recent years. Behind us are the Chavs - who have shown precisely what can happen when you decide a change of manager is the solution to underperformance...and look at Liverpool who appointed a club legend as manager, have spent shit-loads and may well not be playing European football at all next season.

We have to accept that the league is ever more competetive. If a new manager were to come in and finish 3rd or 4th any sensible fan would regard that as a decent achievement.

Also, we have to look at other factors. People bemoan our lack of consistency, pointing out that we have had good runs before and then the wheels have come off. Well, they have never come off sufficiently for us to lose a European place. Unlike Spurs. Unlike Liverpool. Unlike possibly the Chavs this season. We do need to keep things in context.

Then look at what we have had to contend with this season. Our captain and best player, and another 2 important players leaving over the Summer, in very disruptive circumstances. Even Citeh would have struggled if they had lost Ya Ya Toure and Silva. What if Manure had lost Rooney and Valencia? Even with resources, your best players are difficult to replace, and them leaving will disrupt/weaken a team - at least temporarily. And thats before we even get to our season-long injury crisis. We have lost arguably our best midfielder for the entire season, and played half the season without a left back. Its no coincidence that our team looks far more balanced and far more threatening with Gibbs and Sagna back.

We rightly criticise the manager's decision making - and we had a miserable Summer, and have suffered from Wenger's stubbornness in not ringing in proper cover - particularly up front (although that particular gamble has worked so far). But lets in fairness look at the things he has got right. We criticise his perserverance with the likes of Ramsey, Djourou, Walcott - but he perservered also with RVP and Rosicky through years of injury. He seems to have bought duds in Chamakh; Park but Koscielny; Oxlade; Arteta; Mertesacker have all been shrewd signings. Jenkinson and Santos both showed glimpses of potential before their respective long term injuries. For a last minute panic mass buy - last Summer's signings, while disruptive in the short term, may well largely prove to be suceessful ones. It is not an easy thing to pull off mass successful signings.

Wenger still has much to prove - for the rest of the season and over the Summer - but where we are now, as opposed to a month ago, is that there is reason to hope that he can get it right.

:loveblush:

:scarf:

[LDG]

Seemed like the crowd were giving Krul a hard time right from the start. I didn't think he was wasting too much time but the fans were drawing attention to it. It's possible that 5 mins added on could've been 4 mins had it not been for the crowd being petulant and booing the fuck out of him.

It reminds me of the old crowd at highbury when we were playing shit, and had our backs against the wall. We'd just come out fighting, and it great to see from fans and players alike.

If there is one thing I could say to this team right now, it's "never forget this period. Never forget just how much wanting to win at all costs bears fruit and gets the fans on your side. If you want to win anything, ever, you can never be complacent, and 100% is the only way".

[dazthegooner]

:gp:

[IBK]

It reminds me of the old crowd at highbury when we were playing shit, and had our backs against the wall. We'd just come out fighting, and it great to see from fans and players alike.

If there is one thing I could say to this team right now, it's "never forget this period. Never forget just how much wanting to win at all costs bears fruit and gets the fans on your side. If you want to win anything, ever, you can never be complacent, and 100% is the only way".

You should be giving team talks, mate! Hopefully RVP is saying exactly the same thing.

[Flavs]

Sensible stuff. People can talk about us being fickle if we are now in two minds about wenger after 5 games, but its simple really - the manner in which the team has played, and the spirit that they have shown demonstrates that the manager has not lost his players, and that Wenger has not forgotten how to make a team tick.

People grumble about CL football being regarded as an achievement - but we have to look at our current league position in context. It is almost impossible to compete with Citeh's wealth - the fact that Manure have been able to do so is a testament to the talent of the best British manager the country has ever seen - and even Manure are considerably better resourced than we are. Behind them - well we are just a point behind the team that have been the media's darlings all season, and who have repeatedly been described as having a far better/deeper squad than we have. Not bad going for what has been our worst season in recent years. Behind us are the Chavs - who have shown precisely what can happen when you decide a change of manager is the solution to underperformance...and look at Liverpool who appointed a club legend as manager, have spent shit-loads and may well not be playing European football at all next season.

We have to accept that the league is ever more competetive. If a new manager were to come in and finish 3rd or 4th any sensible fan would regard that as a decent achievement.

Also, we have to look at other factors. People bemoan our lack of consistency, pointing out that we have had good runs before and then the wheels have come off. Well, they have never come off sufficiently for us to lose a European place. Unlike Spurs. Unlike Liverpool. Unlike possibly the Chavs this season. We do need to keep things in context.

Then look at what we have had to contend with this season. Our captain and best player, and another 2 important players leaving over the Summer, in very disruptive circumstances. Even Citeh would have struggled if they had lost Ya Ya Toure and Silva. What if Manure had lost Rooney and Valencia? Even with resources, your best players are difficult to replace, and them leaving will disrupt/weaken a team - at least temporarily. And thats before we even get to our season-long injury crisis. We have lost arguably our best midfielder for the entire season, and played half the season without a left back. Its no coincidence that our team looks far more balanced and far more threatening with Gibbs and Sagna back.

We rightly criticise the manager's decision making - and we had a miserable Summer, and have suffered from Wenger's stubbornness in not ringing in proper cover - particularly up front (although that particular gamble has worked so far). But lets in fairness look at the things he has got right. We criticise his perserverance with the likes of Ramsey, Djourou, Walcott - but he perservered also with RVP and Rosicky through years of injury. He seems to have bought duds in Chamakh; Park but Koscielny; Oxlade; Arteta; Mertesacker have all been shrewd signings. Jenkinson and Santos both showed glimpses of potential before their respective long term injuries. For a last minute panic mass buy - last Summer's signings, while disruptive in the short term, may well largely prove to be suceessful ones. It is not an easy thing to pull off mass successful signings.

Wenger still has much to prove - for the rest of the season and over the Summer - but where we are now, as opposed to a month ago, is that there is reason to hope that he can get it right.

Its a good post mate but i still sense fragility within the unit and I know, I just know, we are a harsh loss away from falling apart again. We have "easy" games coming up but a limp draw and the a loss will see the daggers come out again.

The point about the signings is a good one, perhaps the period we have been shit for is the time it has taken them to settle in, i think Kos and in particular Arteta are fantastic players not just in ability and attitude but also in the shifts they put in to help their team mates. When the player of the year awards come out its only ever going to be RvP but i think those 2 have made this come back possible.

I can dream we will overtake those lilly-white lilly livered upstarts from up the road but I do fear we are still an eggshell club at best. We also still cant defend and while set pieces seem to have improved we are clueless, embarrassingly clueless from throw-ins.

A few things still need polishing I just hope this particular turd isn't too brown already.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

i say this every fucking year but im saying it again.

ONE MORE SUMMER.

thats all he's got.

if he makes the same mistakes again, and does not sign up RVP, then i promise you that is it for me.

and the same goes for the board.

if we cannot keep RVP and offer him what he wants then its the start of the demise for the club. we can all clearly see that he is the best striker in the world and completely carried us into 4th/potential 3rd. what else do the board need a player to do for them to be persuaded to offer him a bloody big contract?

he's no nasri. no cesc. he hasn't stated he's got a boyhood club nor seems interested by solely money.

he is a complete role model and gentleman.

if we keep crap like squillaci, chamakh, arshavin and dont replace them, or use the 'we will not sign experience because the kids need to grow' then thats it for me.

we are darn well fortunate we have rvp otherwise we'd be mid-table. they took a massive chance by not signing a decent striker last summer/january but luck will eventually run out. it only takes an injury to rvp and we're done.

and if we arent equipped for it, my tide will firmly be against wenger.

we need to BUILD year on year, not have summers that set us back 3 years. so build on this year FFS.

[Marc Overmars]

This summer does seem the ideal time to get rid of the deadwood and overhaul the squad, if it doesn't happen now it never will.

Squid, Almunia, Denilson, Bendtner, Vela, Arshavin, Chamakh...there's a lot of funds to be freed up there. Of course the hardest part is finding buyers stupid enough to take them.

[LDG]

This summer does seem the ideal time to get rid of the deadwood and overhaul the squad, if it doesn't happen now it never will.

Squid, Almunia, Denilson, Bendtner, Vela, Arshavin, Chamakh...there's a lot of funds to be freed up there. Of course the hardest part is finding buyers stupid enough to take them.

Arsene needs to befriend Pullis, Allardyce, Hughes and Coyle.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

and look at Liverpool who appointed a club legend as manager, have spent shit-loads and may well not be playing European football at all next season.

Well we're already in the qualifying for the Europa League due to the Carling Cup, but I get your point.

We have been awful on the whole.

[Flavs]

Wont have any problems selling Squillachi or Chamakh tbf. Bendtner is apparently off to Russia and just release the rest of them

Almunia :wave:

[Flavs]

Well we're already in the qualifying for the Europa League due to the Carling Cup, but I get your point.

We have been awful on the whole.

You will be ok when all that great young English talent comes good

[Master Splinter]

Vela has been pretty good for Real Sociedad tbf.

Arshavin thinks he's coming back. :lol:

[Power n Glory]

Its not a few games though is it, its the cyclical nature of our team and how they perform. Even bringing in all this experience hasn't stopped it.

Start slow...get real good...be shit for a while...good...really good...really really really shit....better....best.....die at the end.

Its been the same season after season for the last 5 years ffs. We always have shit loads of injuries, always get buried in awful PR propaganda from the club and always suffer the same bullshit from Wenger and Gazidis and nothing really changes, we still flatter to deceive that we are a good side and then just when you have a smile on your face and a spring in your step up pop Hull or WBA to beat us at home.

That's how I feel about the situation. This team is unpredictable and would much rather wait to see what happens at the end of the season and in the summer. The team looks good at the moment and it would be great I'd they player like this all season, but we have to get there first and then deal with the summer transfer saga as well.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

You will be ok when all that great young English talent comes good
Next year is our year :trophy:

[Flavs]

Next year is our year :trophy:

If i could post pictures i would put up that scouse model of diminishing returns i love so much

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Next year is our year :trophy:

http://therepublikofmancunia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/scouseboombustcycle1.jpg

[Flavs]

Maccy :bow:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

http://therepublikofmancunia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/scouseboombustcycle1.jpg
Ah but next season will be different.

This isn't about us.:angry:

[IBK]

Its a good post mate but i still sense fragility within the unit and I know, I just know, we are a harsh loss away from falling apart again. We have "easy" games coming up but a limp draw and the a loss will see the daggers come out again.

The point about the signings is a good one, perhaps the period we have been shit for is the time it has taken them to settle in, i think Kos and in particular Arteta are fantastic players not just in ability and attitude but also in the shifts they put in to help their team mates. When the player of the year awards come out its only ever going to be RvP but i think those 2 have made this come back possible.

I can dream we will overtake those lilly-white lilly livered upstarts from up the road but I do fear we are still an eggshell club at best. We also still cant defend and while set pieces seem to have improved we are clueless, embarrassingly clueless from throw-ins.

A few things still need polishing I just hope this particular turd isn't too brown already.

Point taken mate - and I agree that there's still a ways to go before we can start toasting the manager again. But IMO the last few games have given us more reason to hope. For me, there have been 2 differences to our earlier purple patch. First - we look more balanced as a team - and are creating more opportunities going forwards. Rosicky in particular looks more convincing than Ramsey in giving us drive, and we look like we have 2 wingers at last. Our 1st 11 looks as though it knows what each other are doing and we look like we have a plan. Remember - the teams we have beaten are no also-rans. Second - the team is playing for each other - and its plain to see the spirit and togetherness. This was not so apparent earlier on.

In short - its not just the results, but the way we are playing that looks different. Yes, we have had false dawns before and we will inevitably have a poor result or two - but so will all the top teams. For now, the team and our manager have earnt a little more faith from me.

[IBK]

i say this every fucking year but im saying it again.

ONE MORE SUMMER.

thats all he's got.

if he makes the same mistakes again, and does not sign up RVP, then i promise you that is it for me.

and the same goes for the board.

if we cannot keep RVP and offer him what he wants then its the start of the demise for the club. we can all clearly see that he is the best striker in the world and completely carried us into 4th/potential 3rd. what else do the board need a player to do for them to be persuaded to offer him a bloody big contract?

he's no nasri. no cesc. he hasn't stated he's got a boyhood club nor seems interested by solely money.

he is a complete role model and gentleman.

if we keep crap like squillaci, chamakh, arshavin and dont replace them, or use the 'we will not sign experience because the kids need to grow' then thats it for me.

we are darn well fortunate we have rvp otherwise we'd be mid-table. they took a massive chance by not signing a decent striker last summer/january but luck will eventually run out. it only takes an injury to rvp and we're done.

and if we arent equipped for it, my tide will firmly be against wenger.

we need to BUILD year on year, not have summers that set us back 3 years. so build on this year FFS.

I agree with your sentiment, but just want to temper this view about RVP. Yes, he's a genius, and yes, the lack of backup could come home to bite us. But he is a lone striker in an attack-minded team that is set up for him. He is bound to score lots of goals. While he is fit, any manager would want to play him as much as possible. Few of the top teams have genuine strength in depth in terms of 'guaranteed' strikers, if you exclude Citeh.

You could turn the situation round and say how effective our system is built around our striker. Yes, we are running a risk relying on robin, but we are half way through March and only have 10 games left for him to keep fit for. If the gamble pays off, it will be churlish to use this as a stick to beat Wenger with.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Come on fellow Gooners, stop commisserating and admit that AW has lost it. He has become more of a PR manager with his apologist-like tendencies in recent years. Time we stop buying the horse manure he and other club officials are selling.

Season after season our aim gets lower. Infact, this season is definitely the worst as every other season we'd at least be title contenders till we implode on the last lap and drop to 3rd or 4th. Now it is other way around where we grapling to catch up and/or maintain a CL spot.

We were only winning under Wenger when France was the powerhouse of world football. Since their fall off, we've followed suit - how coincidental.

[Dog Toffee]

^ What crap. Wenger created most of those great world cup winning players himself.

[GP]

:lol:

[Özil's Panoramic View]

^ What crap. Wenger created most of those great world cup winning players himself.

continue deluding yourself

hope you are just as optimistic next season when we lose RVP and somehow fight off relegation....tell us then just how good a manager AW is

[Flavs]

We were only winning under Wenger when France was the powerhouse of world football. Since their fall off, we've followed suit - how coincidental.

We seem to be winning quite a bit at the moment and France still suck ass so I am not sure where you are going with that point. Is this some racist thing against French people?

That's it isn't it, in a desperate attempt to fit in with the English and their round football nonsense you are mirroring their natural contempt for the French, you will be calling them frogs next or Sheep-burners. People like you make me sick, and i don't just mean Americans, i mean those who adopt the prejudices of others simply to fit in.

So jog on racist boy and return to you moms and pops, apple pie eating, Sioux burning, sister raping non Empirical empire in the west with your shotgun and your banjo.

:angry:

[Özil's Panoramic View]

We seem to be winning quite a bit at the moment and France still suck ass so I am not sure where you are going with that point. Is this some racist thing against French people?


you are misinterpreting the context in which i use the word 'winning' sir

i won't justify the rest of your post with a response

[Flavs]

you are misinterpreting the context in which i use the word 'winning' sir

Yeah whatever, save it for the judge Forrest

[Dog Toffee]

:lol:

He did you know. He moulded them from clay.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

He did you know. He moulded them from clay.

i'm sure he did, especially based on the messianic status he has somehow carved out at the club

[Ollie the Optimist]

Not in the same way as it is when we're trying to win something no, against Spurs they were expected to win...at 2-0 down we had nothing to lose and yes we showed great fight but in reality it was from a no pressure situation.

Yesterday's result was great in the end, but I don't think we were under great pressure, 4th place is the goal not 3rd.

you couldnt be more wrong in that statement. how is a game against your rivals a no pressure situation and also given the anger at the manager and team at that point, it was a massive high pressure game. going 2-0 down at home to your most hated rivals the pressure became more intense. they responded

[Letters]

hope you are just as optimistic next season when we lose RVP and somehow fight off relegation....tell us then just how good a manager AW is

People have been saying that for years and every year Wenger has delivered a top 4 finish. Even this season it's on despite an awful start and a slump a month or so ago. Yes, we've been kept up there by RvP but Wenger bought and stuck with RvP through all his injuries.
We have failed to win trophies and that is damning but year on year people have said we're in decline, will slide into mid-table, etc, etc.
We never have. Not even this year.

[Letters]

you couldnt be more wrong in that statement. how is a game against your rivals a no pressure situation and also given the anger at the manager and team at that point, it was a massive high pressure game. going 2-0 down at home to your most hated rivals the pressure became more intense. they responded

Ollie!
If we'd lost then it would have been us bottling it and crumbling under pressure.
But we won so obviously there wasn't any.
Next time we lose it'll be us bottling it. Till then there's no pressure on any game.

[Flavs]

Actually thinking about it, we stuck with RvP and he has turned out to be awesome, we have stuck with Rosicky through his injuries and he is awesome...

Diaby :bow:

[Flavs]

Also that Josh is a card eh? He reminds me of that Joker fellow.

[Xhaka Can’t]

A new member is a new member. Even if it is just for an existing member to send abusive PMs

[GP]

Also that Josh is a card eh? He reminds me of that Joker fellow.

One of many.

[Marc Overmars]

I was thinking Joker as well. :lol:

Didn't want to stir the pot though..

[Özil's Panoramic View]

People have been saying that for years and every year Wenger has delivered a top 4 finish. Even this season it's on despite an awful start and a slump a month or so ago. Yes, we've been kept up there by RvP but Wenger bought and stuck with RvP through all his injuries.
We have failed to win trophies and that is damning but year on year people have said we're in decline, will slide into mid-table, etc, etc.
We never have. Not even this year.

And here's to hoping mid table or lower is never realised.

Wenger is still spent though, I personally don't see us winning anything under him anymore. I think the difference between him and SAF is that whilst he'll accept and pat the lads across the shoulders after delivering piss poor performances, SAF won't hesitate to get his shoes stuck up his players butts and let them know he aint afraid to send them packing no matter how talented they might be.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Also that Josh is a card eh? He reminds me of that Joker fellow.

Say whatever you like, but if more of you were like me and demanded more of AW and the squad instead of accepting excuses after excuses, I'm pretty certain we wouldn't all be here bemoaning out empty trophy cabinet.

Ps I might be new to Goonersweb, but rest assured I'm in no way new to forums so feel free to throw the cards pal(s). Also I think I might have been a gooner whilst some of ya'll were still in diapers.

[Letters]

You may be right and I agree Wenger has been way too patient with under-performing players although a couple of times recently he has been more openly critical - particularly of our display in Milan.

[GP]

:lol:

Nice one

[Joker]

Josh is not the same poster as me, if the mods are suspicious just compare our IP Addresses.

The simple fact is some people are getting excited based on a run of 5 wins in a 2 month period. This is the shortest of short term trends, and using this to claim that we've turned the corner is naive.

The sceptical fans are criticising Wenger based on the pattern that has been followed over the last 7 YEARS. Even in past seasons we've had these purple patches (remember us beating Man Utd and Chelsea in 08-09 in November, despite that season being hugely disappointing)

[Flavs]

I might be new to Goonersweb, but rest assured I'm in no way new to forums so feel free to throw the cards pal(s). Also I think I might have been a gooner whilst some of ya'll were still in diapers.

Sorry i don't speak Americanonian


Period

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Sorry i don't speak Americanonian


Period

Good for u, now on with ur Wenger 'arse' sucking pal

[LDG]

Say whatever you like, but if more of you were like me and demanded more of AW and the squad instead of accepting excuses after excuses, I'm pretty certain we wouldn't all be here bemoaning out empty trophy cabinet.

Ps I might be new to Goonersweb, but rest assured I'm in no way new to forums so feel free to throw the cards pal(s). Also I think I might have been a gooner whilst some of ya'll were still in diapers.

Why do you keep quoting my same post :unsure:

[Syn]

It reminds me of the old crowd at highbury when we were playing shit, and had our backs against the wall. We'd just come out fighting, and it great to see from fans and players alike.

If there is one thing I could say to this team right now, it's "never forget this period. Never forget just how much wanting to win at all costs bears fruit and gets the fans on your side. If you want to win anything, ever, you can never be complacent, and 100% is the only way".


Ollie!
If we'd lost then it would have been us bottling it and crumbling under pressure.
But we won so obviously there wasn't any.
Next time we lose it'll be us bottling it. Till then there's no pressure on any game.

Absolutely. I don't really understand it because the same people claim that the club believe 4th is our trophy and our target. So if we're competing in key games to make that target, surely there would be more pressure?

[Kano]

Josh is not the same poster as me, if the mods are suspicious just compare our IP Addresses.

The simple fact is some people are getting excited based on a run of 5 wins in a 2 month period. This is the shortest of short term trends, and using this to claim that we've turned the corner is naive.

The sceptical fans are criticising Wenger based on the pattern that has been followed over the last 7 YEARS. Even in past seasons we've had these purple patches (remember us beating Man Utd and Chelsea in 08-09 in November, despite that season being hugely disappointing)

you are playing quite badly away from home - that defeat to swansea hasn't helped.

tevez should be back soon, so plenty to be excited about

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Sorry about the quoting sir, effects of posting from a blackberry

[Globalgunner]

I don't remember him ever saying that.



Well, no we weren't. We were 7th after 3 months, 3 points off of 3rd place (that was on 19th November, just over 3 months in). We were low down very early in the season after our car crash of a start but so what? Surely it matters where you finish, not where you are after 5 games or whatever.

The rest of your post makes some sense (apart from the bit about writing off 6 points to Utd, before this season they'd done the double over us 2 years ago but that's the only time I could see for a long time, we beat them at the tail end of last season). Are there better managers out there? Well yes, there probably are. But I don't think there are that many and unless we pick a new manager very carefully I'd say there's a good chance we'll get worse after Wenger, not better.

So Wenger not mouthing the exact words i said means he never said he believes this team will make progress in the near future. Are we in a court of law here?. I suppose contrary to what I have said, Wenger has actually promised us that next year will be worse or just as bad as this. Sheesh!. You Wenger apologists simply wont hear anything against him and in his defence you resort to nitpicking words and nuances. So we were never 15th this season at a time when Manu were already in the top 5. How are you going to finish first when you habitually give more than capable opposition a 10 point head start. I suppose wonderful Wenger can probably climb Everest with one hand and no rope While Fergie straps on the GPS laden equipment.

I can see that us fans are split in 2 distinct groups. 1 who think we are basically punching above our weight and great things should actually be beyond us and those who think footie is played on the park with equal number of players and a capable set of people working in the background. It is disingenious to think what we say on thees boards is irrelevant. it probably is, since disgruntled fans have existed long before the internet. it however does not make it less salient the way the game makes each and everyone of us feel.

This team, this club has deficiencies, this is an incontrovertible fact. In 99.9% of other clubs, the manager is where the correction begins. The only question which is what the poll asks is if we want to start with this change or not.

[Kano]

no need to be so rude.

it's only the internet after all and i'm only trying to helpfully guide you toward the right messageboard for the team you support.

can't a guy get a break around here?

[Joker]

no need to be so rude.

it's only the internet and i'm only trying to helpfully guide you toward the right messageboard for the team you support.

can't a guy get a break around here?

You're not being funny or clever, so kindly STFU. I've been posting on Goonersweb for 6 years, it'd be quite an elaborate hoax to keep up for that amount of time wouldn't it?

[Ollie the Optimist]

You are the most boring **** on this messageboard. How about changing the fucking record and making a decent post once in a while, rather than pathetic little digs at me, which is all you seem to do.


tbf joker we could say the exact same about you with your stupid fucking posts about RVP not doing enough. you could have value in what you said baout him if he hadnt scored 44 goals in 45 prem games, several winners and equalisers and general bullshit about him

[Letters]

So Wenger not mouthing the exact words i said means he never said he believes this team will make progress in the near future.

I'm not sure what he's said but you can't just make up stuff about what Wenger says or where we were in the table at a certain point and then get all stroppy when I pick you up on it.

Do you think this season has been that bad? I think parts of it have but other parts have been brilliant. Recently we've shown some real fight and got some great results. There was a run earlier in the season where we did that and then slumped just after Christmas so I don't know what to make of us as a team right now. But I tell you one thing for free, I didn't expect us to be top 4 at this stage of the season and I doubt you did either. I didn't think we'd be 1 point off Spurs - a team who the media have been jizzing over all season and who were touted as serious title contenders. The team and Wenger deserve some credit for us being there.

To say people who support Wenger 'wont hear anything against him' is ludicrous. "Wenger can do no wrong" and "Wenger is a bumbling idiot" are not the only two positions. Both of those are extreme positions and both are ludicrous. Only the real WUMs on here take either position - and they don't really believe that either, they're just looking for a reaction. There are many far more sensible shades of grey in between those two positions

Wenger has, IMO, done well to keep us in the top 4 year on year despite the spending power of billionaire owners and other clubs spending big to try (and usually fail) to unseat us. BUT, we've not won a trophy for far too long for a club of our stature. And fundamental problems have been allowed to persist for far too long without being addressed. That is damning and Wenger should have been sacked for that. The issue for me is whether we're progressing. Right now I see signs that we are but I accept that there have been false dawns before.

Of course the team has deficiencies. EVERY team has deficiencies. The issue is whether Wenger is the right person to lessen those deficiencies and whether someone else could do so better (given that we have a board who seem to value profit over investment in the squad). I just don't know any more but right now I'm enjoying the football we're playing, enjoying the fight that the squad are showing and am cautiously optimistic about how things are going. In a few games if we've fell apart again I might feel differently.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

So Wenger not mouthing the exact words i said means he never said he believes this team will make progress in the near future. Are we in a court of law here?. I suppose contrary to what I have said, Wenger has actually promised us that next year will be worse or just as bad as this. Sheesh!. You Wenger apologists simply wont hear anything against him and in his defence you resort to nitpicking words and nuances. So we were never 15th this season at a time when Manu were already in the top 5. How are you going to finish first when you habitually give more than capable opposition a 10 point head start. I suppose wonderful Wenger can probably climb Everest with one hand and no rope While Fergie straps on the GPS laden equipment.

I can see that us fans are split in 2 distinct groups. 1 who think we are basically punching above our weight and great things should actually be beyond us and those who think footie is played on the park with equal number of players and a capable set of people working in the background. It is disingenious to think what we say on thees boards is irrelevant. it probably is, since disgruntled fans have existed long before the internet. it however does not make it less salient the way the game makes each and everyone of us feel.

This team, this club has deficiencies, this is an incontrovertible fact. In 99.9% of other clubs, the manager is where the correction begins. The only question which is what the poll asks is if we want to start with this change or not.

Top post fella top post, and your right Arsenal fans are split into to groups. For me its what is success we may not all agree but it does not make anyone of us on here less ambitious then anyone else.

Lets be real in the era of the billionaire in the 1st 3 seasons from 2006-2008 its clear we had no money (repaying of loans for the stadium) and the target was 4th plain and simple and Wenger delivered. the next 4 years 2009- 2012. Between these years we had good enough squads to win a trophy which really should have been the aim, Even though We were Challenging we were never going to win the league why, not enough quality was added to win the league even though we had enough to challenge.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

To say people who support Wenger 'wont hear anything against him' is ludicrous. "Wenger can do no wrong" and "Wenger is a bumbling idiot" are not the only two positions. Both of those are extreme positions and both are ludicrous. Only the real WUMs on here take either position - and they don't really believe that either, they're just looking for a reaction. There are many far more sensible shades of grey in between those two positions

Wenger has, IMO, done well to keep us in the top 4 year on year despite the spending power of billionaire owners and other clubs spending big to try (and usually fail) to unseat us. BUT, we've not won a trophy for far too long for a club of our stature. And fundamental problems have been allowed to persist for far too long without being addressed. That is damning and Wenger should have been sacked for that. The issue for me is whether we're progressing. Right now I see signs that we are but I accept that there have been false dawns before.


Yep agree with this letters. Just because people don't say Wenger out every week don't make then then Wenger in brigade or fans who have been conned.

Big question is why was AW given so much time on this project? Should have been given a target of 3 years and with failure should have been sacked.

Will a new manager be allowed to remain here for this long if he don't win nout in the next 3 years or will it be samey same.

[Alpha]

When AW was signed, did you know who he was? How many of you had RVP's smile from last night when he signed in 96? I'd think no one... so why not get someone who looks promising and can do a good job?

If we want a 100% top manager, there is Capello & Riijkard (off the top of my head)
Football changes with time mate . I doubt this is the time to give the job to an inexperienced manager at the Grove . When Wenger signed he was already a top manager even though he was unknown in England . He didi a great job at Monaco winning the league and tasted the old version of champions League as well . He gave to the japanese the legacy in football with Nagoya Grampus . He has started a great job at the Emirates . Let him finish it first . He will move on one day . Capello or Riijkard for Wenger ? Well Capello was a great manager with AC Milan but England just exposed him . Do you think he will be confident strait away to fill Wenger's boots ? I'm not sure about .
And Riijkard ? He inherited Barcelona and made us believe he was a top coach . By the way , where is he ? Why can't he prove it somewhere else before he takes charge of Arsenal ? I'm tempted to believe Barca was a one-off . Don't you see everyone managing Barcelona looks a good manager ? Question is : Is Barca making them look great or the managers making Barca great ? If so, why Barca are changing them ?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Football changes with time mate . I doubt this is the time to give the job to an inexperienced manager at the Grove . When Wenger signed he was already a top manager even though he was unknown in England . He didi a great job at Monaco winning the league and tasted the old version of champions League as well . He gave to the japanese the legacy in football with Nagoya Grampus . He has started a great job at the Emirates . Let him finish it first . He will move on one day . Capello or Riijkard for Wenger ? Well Capello was a great manager with AC Milan but England just exposed him . Do you think he will be confident strait away to fill Wenger's boots ? I'm not sure about .
And Riijkard ? He inherited Barcelona and made us believe he was a top coach . By the way , where is he ? Why can't he prove it somewhere else before he takes charge of Arsenal ? I'm tempted to believe Barca was a one-off . Don't you see everyone managing Barcelona looks a good manager ? Question is : Is Barca making them look great or the managers making Barca great ? If so, why Barca are changing them ?

Put it this way if pep game here we'd still not be as good as barca in fact where ever he went they not be as good as Barca. Its the way the whole club is run and it will take ages to do it anywhere else.

[Marc Overmars]

Put it this way if pep game here we'd still not be as good as barca in fact where ever he went they not be as good as Barca. Its the way the whole club is run and it will take ages to do it anywhere else.

Well obviously Pep wouldn't turn us or anyone else into Barca, that goes without saying. However to put his success down to the players does a disservice to him because Barca were not the side we see today under Rijkaard.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Well obviously Pep wouldn't turn us or anyone else into Barca, that goes without saying. However to put his success down to the players does a disservice to him because Barca were not the side we see today under Rijkaard.

Too right and id never say it was not down to him, he has done wonders with them, but the way the club is run is a way most should be imo.

[Alpha]

Well obviously Pep wouldn't turn us or anyone else into Barca, that goes without saying. However to put his success down to the players does a disservice to him because Barca were not the side we see today under Rijkaard.
But you can't deny the quality of players make the job easy for any manager .Even Rednapp would win the the league , champions league , FA cup , Carling cup the same year with a team boasting players such as Messi , Fabregas , Iniesta , Xavi , David Villa ..etc..I think Barca have a very solid team . From the academy to the first team they are amazing and any manager would look world class .

[Syn]

I'm not being funny - give me a squad with Messi, Iniesta and Xavi in and I'd fucking win the Champions League.

[Cripps_orig]

But you can't deny the quality of players make the job easy for any manager .Even Rednapp would win the the league , champions league , FA cup , Carling cup the same year with a team boasting players such as Messi , Fabregas , Iniesta , Xavi , David Villa ..etc..I think Barca have a very solid team . From the academy to the first team they are amazing and any manager would look world class .Not really.

Take ****esc out of that then id agree

[fakeyank]

Football changes with time mate . I doubt this is the time to give the job to an inexperienced manager at the Grove . When Wenger signed he was already a top manager even though he was unknown in England . He didi a great job at Monaco winning the league and tasted the old version of champions League as well . He gave to the japanese the legacy in football with Nagoya Grampus . He has started a great job at the Emirates . Let him finish it first . He will move on one day . Capello or Riijkard for Wenger ? Well Capello was a great manager with AC Milan but England just exposed him . Do you think he will be confident strait away to fill Wenger's boots ? I'm not sure about .
And Riijkard ? He inherited Barcelona and made us believe he was a top coach . By the way , where is he ? Why can't he prove it somewhere else before he takes charge of Arsenal ? I'm tempted to believe Barca was a one-off . Don't you see everyone managing Barcelona looks a good manager ? Question is : Is Barca making them look great or the managers making Barca great ? If so, why Barca are changing them ?

Wenger started a job at Emirates since the move... I wouldnt call it a great job! We have become an Ajax of mid nineties.

As for Capello, I think he is a club manager rather than a national team manager and I think he will be rubbing his hands in glee at the prospect at proving a lot of people wrong in England. I agree to quite an extent about Barca.. they are a solid club regarding the playing system and the players they have.

Other top managers in the world- There is David Moyes, who while not rated by some Gooners, has done wonders at Everton. I bet he can do a great job here. We can also get Steve Bould in.. There are others I rate as well- Pelligrini, Billic, Hitzfeld etc

[Cripps_orig]

Wenger started a job at Emirates since the move... I wouldnt call it a great job! We have become an Ajax of mid nineties.


Ajax won the CL in mid 90s and they produced quality players

We have done neither

[GP]

We have become an Ajax of mid nineties.

Awesome! They won the Champions League in 1995 :lol:

[fakeyank]

Awesome! They won the Champions League in 1995 :lol:

You know what I mean... they sold their players.. more like late nineties! Gosh..

http://www.idlehearts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/some-people-640x309.jpg

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Ajax won the CL in mid 90s and they produced quality players

We have done neither

Theo Theo Theo

[Cripps_orig]

Theo Theo TheoCame from Southampton

[Mr. Lahey]

You can bet your house that the people now saying there's been no great pressure on recent games would have been the first to say we'd 'bottled it' had we lost those games. Some people have a clear anti-Wenger agenda and will do anything to belittle or dismiss any good run of form lest they inadvertently give him any credit.

this is ridiculous. there is know anti-wenger agenda. from what ive seen written by others and from my perspective Wenger has done a poor job over the past 6 years given the resources he has at his disposal. he has made so many mistakes that most other managers in football AND other sports would get sacked for. this is not an anti-wenger agenda, those of us who want him out are fed up with the way he is doing things because its NOT working. thats why people want him out, the mistakes, the stubborness, the same bullshit is why people want him out.

why didnt we show this form leading in to all of our big cup games? or the big games earlier in the season where we needed to stay competitive in the league title race? why dont we do this when the big prize is there? its not a coincidence.

the reason why people are dismissing this run of form is because we've had a purple patch every season before this, we are battling for 4th place (wenger will say this is a trophy, but its not), wenger uses these kinds of runs to justify not buying, and fans use these runs to justify why Wenger should stay. history has shown us that his way has not worked, it has nothing to do with a anti-wenger agenda.

[Kano]

this is ridiculous. there is know anti-wenger agenda. from what ive seen written by others and from my perspective Wenger has done a poor job over the past 6 years given the resources he has at his disposal. he has made so many mistakes that most other managers in football AND other sports would get sacked for. this is not an anti-wenger agenda, those of us who want him out are fed up with the way he is doing things because its NOT working. thats why people want him out, the mistakes, the stubborness, the same bullshit is why people want him out.

why didnt we show this form leading in to all of our big cup games? or the big games earlier in the season where we needed to stay competitive in the league title race? why dont we do this when the big prize is there? its not a coincidence.

the reason why people are dismissing this run of form is because we've had a purple patch every season before this, we are battling for 4th place (wenger will say this is a trophy, but its not), wenger uses these kinds of runs to justify not buying, and fans use these runs to justify why Wenger should stay. history has shown us that his way has not worked, it has nothing to do with a anti-wenger agenda.
the 'anti-wenger' tag is as gay as the opposing 'pro-wenger brigade' i've seen written on here.

a lot of fans will remain fiercely loyal to a manager that has given us so many good times, whilst there are others ready for a change right now. people have legitimate reasons for wanting him to stay and for him to go if we're honest.

i was still with the manager up until christmas, after the resilience shown to come back from that start. then january came and we fell apart again.

keeping rvp means more right now than keeping the manager. wenger deserves some credit for the come backs we've had to go through this season but i get the feeling the group, in particular our captain, gathered that spirit more than the management. if wenger was to go (which he won't) then i think another manager could pick up where this lot are leaving things at the end of the season.

don't get me wrong, i'm loving the recent 5/6 games that have led to some great times on the terraces but my belief is no longer there for wenger to push any higher.

i couldn't care less about the money city/utd have as the english league remains more competitive than other countries and the chances will come for other well organised teams to push their noses in there too.

[Mr. Lahey]

the 'anti-wenger' tag is as gay as the opposing 'pro-wenger brigade' i've seen written on here.

a lot of fans will remain fiercely loyal to a manager that has given us so many good times, whilst there are others ready for a change right now. people have legitimate reasons for wanting him to stay and for him to go if we're honest.

i was still with the manager up until christmas, after the resilience shown to come back from that start. then january came and we fell apart again.

keeping rvp means more right now than keeping the manager. wenger deserves some credit for the come backs we've had to go through this season but i get the feeling the group, in particular our captain, gathered that spirit more than the management. if wenger was to go (which he won't) then i think another manager could pick up where this lot are leaving things at the end of the season.

don't get me wrong, i'm loving the recent 5/6 games that have led to some great times on the terraces but my belief is no longer there for wenger to push any higher.

i couldn't care less about the money city/utd have as the english league remains more competitive than other countries and the chances will come for other well organised teams to push their noses in there too.

good post and i agree that people will stay loyal to the manager.however this is what i have a problem with, loyalty should be to the club and whats best for the club. if wenger is not getting the job done than he has to go or he should walk himself. i to have enjoyed parts of this season but its not enough to justify wenger staying. you play the game to win...he isnt winning, hes gotta go.


Cosigned by Coach Edwards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I

[Olivier's xmas twist]

good post and i agree that people will stay loyal to the manager.however this is what i have a problem with, loyalty should be to the club and whats best for the club. if wenger is not getting the job done than he has to go or he should walk himself. i to have enjoyed parts of this season but its not enough to justify wenger staying. you play the game to win...he isnt winning, hes gotta go.


Cosigned by Coach Edwards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I

Well he obviously is, to his employers why hence why they have no sacked him, To You and me he is failing to them he is not and thats what matters at end of the day sadly.

[Kano]

good post and i agree that people will stay loyal to the manager.however this is what i have a problem with, loyalty should be to the club and whats best for the club. if wenger is not getting the job done than he has to go or he should walk himself. i to have enjoyed parts of this season but its not enough to justify wenger staying. you play the game to win...he isnt winning, hes gotta go.
i think in most cases football fans would do but wenger is a dying breed of a manager staying with a top club for so long. you can see why so many fans, me included, hold a lot of respect for wenger and want him to do well. we all do. i think its normal for so many fans to be loyal/worried when an absolute legend is no longer working as he once did.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I want a change of Manager - I don't think we will win another trophy under him, it is to do with the mental strength (or lack of it) of the team when a prize is there to be won.

That said, while he is our Manager, I WANT him to do well - even if I think he won't. Some post here as if they WANT him to do poorly and that is what could be construed as an 'anti-Wenger agenda'.

But essentially, we are meant to be Arsenal supporters and the only agenda we should have is wanting what is best for the Club.

[Mr. Lahey]

Well he obviously is, to his employers why hence why they have no sacked him, To You and me he is failing to them he is not and thats what matters at end of the day sadly.

agreed but this is a thread about if wenger should stay or go. he will be here next year because the board want him here. any other team would have sacked him a while ago.

[Xhaka Can’t]

agreed but this is a thread about if wenger should stay or go. he will be here next year because the board want him here. any other team would have sacked him a while ago.

Any other team? :sarcy:

It depends what you want - if you are a sugar daddy and you demand silverware and are prepared to throw anything at it, yeah. But only two teams have consistently outperformed Arsenal over the 7 barren seasons. I'm guessing they'd be the only two teams to have sacked Wenger.

[Power n Glory]

this is ridiculous. there is know anti-wenger agenda. from what ive seen written by others and from my perspective Wenger has done a poor job over the past 6 years given the resources he has at his disposal. he has made so many mistakes that most other managers in football AND other sports would get sacked for. this is not an anti-wenger agenda, those of us who want him out are fed up with the way he is doing things because its NOT working. thats why people want him out, the mistakes, the stubborness, the same bullshit is why people want him out.

why didnt we show this form leading in to all of our big cup games? or the big games earlier in the season where we needed to stay competitive in the league title race? why dont we do this when the big prize is there? its not a coincidence.

the reason why people are dismissing this run of form is because we've had a purple patch every season before this, we are battling for 4th place (wenger will say this is a trophy, but its not), wenger uses these kinds of runs to justify not buying, and fans use these runs to justify why Wenger should stay. history has shown us that his way has not worked, it has nothing to do with a anti-wenger agenda.

:gp:

We look a much better side now that Rosicky is playing instead of Ramsey and now that we have our fullbacks available. But we all could see that we were struggling in certain areas yet Wenger insisted on trying to play the same way without adapting his tactics and it has cost us. This may sound harsh, but I don't think we're playing better because Wenger gave some rousing team speech or changed tactics. I think the players are trying to restore some pride after the horrid run and they have also seen that Wenger is in the firing line so they're stepping up their game. That's my opinion, but I could be wrong but Wenger isn't known for giving the hair dryer treatment and his philosophy on coaching is based on allowing the players to learn for themselves and he's not the type to shout instructions. It's an interesting theory. But coming out from this season, I think he will feel this team has learned a lot about themselves and grown in experience. That might hamper our transfer activity this summer. Also, it's like this team has to hit rock bottom and get embarrassed before they start playing proper football. They're not learning how to be Champions and how to deal with pressure. He will have to push them harder and get them to stop slacking off. I just don't think he has it in him to overhaul his philosophy. It has be boot camp with this team.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I want a change of Manager - I don't think we will win another trophy under him, it is to do with the mental strength (or lack of it) of the team when a prize is there to be won.

That said, while he is our Manager, I WANT him to do well - even if I think he won't. Some post here as if they WANT him to do poorly and that is what could be construed as an 'anti-Wenger agenda'.

But essentially, we are meant to be Arsenal supporters and the only agenda we should have is wanting what is best for the Club.

This is how i feel


agreed but this is a thread about if wenger should stay or go. he will be here next year because the board want him here. any other team would have sacked him a while ago.

Agreed.

[Dennis Bendtner]

'Any other team' would not have sacked Wenger. Biggest myth levelled against him.

[Mr. Lahey]

I want a change of Manager - I don't think we will win another trophy under him, it is to do with the mental strength (or lack of it) of the team when a prize is there to be won.

That said, while he is our Manager, I WANT him to do well - even if I think he won't. Some post here as if they WANT him to do poorly and that is what could be construed as an 'anti-Wenger agenda'.

But essentially, we are meant to be Arsenal supporters and the only agenda we should have is wanting what is best for the Club.

fair enough, that makes sense however the anti-wenger agenda crowd know whats around the corner because its fucking groundhog day every year in North London. i can understand why some people are driven to wanting him to do poorly because if he doesnt get to that level than nothing will ever change. i dont condone this veiw or want wenger to do poorly but it seems the only way for things to change is for the results to continue to slide. history and word form managment have indicated this much.

[Mr. Lahey]

Any other team? :sarcy:

It depends what you want - if you are a sugar daddy and you demand silverware and are prepared to throw anything at it, yeah. But only two teams have consistently outperformed Arsenal over the 7 barren seasons. I'm guessing they'd be the only two teams to have sacked Wenger.

ok i overstretched on that point.

[Power n Glory]

'Any other team' would not have sacked Wenger. Biggest myth levelled against him.

Why is that myth? It's very rare to find a manager that has been at the helm of a top 4 team for over 15 years and won nothing in the last 6/7 years of his career. Most managers don't get a chance to build team after team at this level unless you keep winning silverware.

[Niall_Quinn]

He'll see out his contract (as always) and then he'll go. At no point has the board ever given an indication they wanted him out. These guys are focused on money, not football. And Wenger is the best in the business (by a mile) at making money and judging the absolute bare minimum required (in terms of expenditure) to keep the money flowing in. I agree Wenger isn't the most tactically astute on the pitch. But I don't agree that will have any bearing in whether he will stay or go. It's all about the money.

[Xhaka Can’t]

fair enough, that makes sense however the anti-wenger agenda crowd know whats around the corner because its fucking groundhog day every year in North London. i can understand why some people are driven to wanting him to do poorly because if he doesnt get to that level than nothing will ever change. i dont condone this veiw or want wenger to do poorly but it seems the only way for things to change is for the results to continue to slide. history and word form managment have indicated this much.

The only way this Board are going to sack Wenger is if the team start losing money and that will not happen until we finish outside the CL places for at least two seasons. Now I appreciate this is only my view, but there is absolutely nothing coming from anyone on the Board or indeed either of the two main shareholders that would indicate otherwise.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why is that myth? It's very rare to find a manager that has been at the helm of a top 4 team for over 15 years and won nothing in the last 6/7 years of his career. Most managers don't get a chance to build team after team at this level unless you keep winning silverware.

Depends what you mean by winning, or whose point of view you examine. 14 years CL revenue is an unblemished track record of success to some, I'm sure.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He'll see out his contract (as always) and then he'll go. At no point has the board ever given an indication they wanted him out. These guys are focused on money, not football. And Wenger is the best in the business (by a mile) at making money and judging the absolute bare minimum required (in terms of expenditure) to keep the money flowing in. I agree Wenger isn't the most tactically astute on the pitch. But I don't agree that will have any bearing in whether he will stay or go. It's all about the money.

Excatly, If t hey were so bothered about him not winning a thing he'd be out ages ago. If their happy with top 4 then to him he has been a success and as the fans don't pay his wages in truth were irrelevant.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Why is that myth? It's very rare to find a manager that has been at the helm of a top 4 team for over 15 years and won nothing in the last 6/7 years of his career. Most managers don't get a chance to build team after team at this level unless you keep winning silverware.

It is also very rare to have found a Manager that has been at the helm of a top 4 team for 15 years. A population of 2 in fact.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Why is that myth? It's very rare to find a manager that has been at the helm of a top 4 team for over 15 years and won nothing in the last 6/7 years of his career. Most managers don't get a chance to build team after team at this level unless you keep winning silverware.

Also rare to find one consistently making money for the club through performance and transfer profit. I'm fairly sure those in football have a lot of admiration for Wenger's work since the stadium build, and would snap your arm off for something similar.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Why is that myth? It's very rare to find a manager that has been at the helm of a top 4 team for over 15 years and won nothing in the last 6/7 years of his career. Most managers don't get a chance to build team after team at this level unless you keep winning silverware.

Blame that on the Billionaire who keep buying these clubs and sacking managers when they don't give them quick success.

[Mr. Lahey]

The only way this Board are going to sack Wenger is if the team start losing money and that will not happen until we finish outside the CL places for at least two seasons. Now I appreciate this is only my view, but there is absolutely nothing coming from anyone on the Board or indeed either of the two main shareholders that would indicate otherwise.

i was assuming that as losing continued, people will begin to boo and eventually stop attending/watching/supporting. i agree with your viewpoint, that will be the only way he gets fired.

[Power n Glory]

Depends what you mean by winning, or whose point of view you examine. 14 years CL revenue is an unblemished track record of success to some, I'm sure.

I think it's worse when a manager doesn't strive to win trophies. He's a sportsman at the end of the day and that should be his ultimate goal.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

i was assuming that as losing continued, people will begin to boo and eventually stop attending/watching/supporting. i agree with your viewpoint, that will be the only way he gets fired.

problem is it will never happen die hard fans will always show up to watch this team regardless. We have those who said they would to the bin bag protest, seem to bottle that (unless it was media shite). All booing does is effect the team nothing else. Even protests won't do much as long as the money is coming in they won't care if we make arses or ourselves chanting Wenger out repeatedly.

[Joker]

Yes, Wenger's kept us in the top 4 for a long time, but would any other manager be allowed to carry on having taken a club who had won 5 trophies in 4 seasons (and had finished unbeaten in an entire season) and allowing them to regress so badly as to not win any trophies for 7 years? Of course Wenger deserves credit for the trophies we won from 2001-2005, but his methods aren't working anymore, it's been brutally highlighted season after season. Our board deserve the blame for persisting with him (because it was financially profitable to do so) but there's no question any other club with owners even remotely interested in football would have sacked him at the end of last season at the very latest.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I think it's worse when a manager doesn't strive to win trophies. He's a sportsman at the end of the day and that should be his ultimate goal.

No he manages them.

[Power n Glory]

It is also very rare to have found a Manager that has been at the helm of a top 4 team for 15 years. A population of 2 in fact.

That proves my point. Managers have been sacked for less. But that's down to our Board. They don't want to rock the boat.

[Mr. Lahey]

:gp:

We look a much better side now that Rosicky is playing instead of Ramsey and now that we have our fullbacks available. But we all could see that we were struggling in certain areas yet Wenger insisted on trying to play the same way without adapting his tactics and it has cost us. This may sound harsh, but I don't think we're playing better because Wenger gave some rousing team speech or changed tactics. I think the players are trying to restore some pride after the horrid run and they have also seen that Wenger is in the firing line so they're stepping up their game. That's my opinion, but I could be wrong but Wenger isn't known for giving the hair dryer treatment and his philosophy on coaching is based on allowing the players to learn for themselves and he's not the type to shout instructions. It's an interesting theory. But coming out from this season, I think he will feel this team has learned a lot about themselves and grown in experience. That might hamper our transfer activity this summer. Also, it's like this team has to hit rock bottom and get embarrassed before they start playing proper football. They're not learning how to be Champions and how to deal with pressure. He will have to push them harder and get them to stop slacking off. I just don't think he has it in him to overhaul his philosophy. It has be boot camp with this team.

agreed and this is why i want him out now. im afraid that he will use this current run or getting 4th to justify not making impactful signings this summer. i may be wrong but we know how the story has gone so far.

[Joker]

No he manages them.

He doesn't mean it like that, what he's saying is that Wenger's a football man at the end of the day, not an accountant, so his obsession with the financial "bottom line" is unhealthy from a football point of view.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yes, Wenger's kept us in the top 4 for a long time, but would any other manager be allowed to carry on having taken a club who had won 5 trophies in 4 seasons (and had finished unbeaten in an entire season) and allowing them to regress so badly as to not win any trophies for 7 years? Of course Wenger deserves credit for the trophies we won from 2001-2005, but his methods aren't working anymore, it's been brutally highlighted season after season. Our board deserve the blame for persisting with him (because it was financially profitable to do so) but there's no question any other club with owners even remotely interested in football would have sacked him at the end of last season at the very latest.

Really?

I reckon we are talking about a maximum of two Clubs here. Personally I think he should go, but lets get a bit of perspective here - during 7 barren seasons only two Clubs have outperformed us in the League on a consistent basis and one of those teams is currently below us.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yes, Wenger's kept us in the top 4 for a long time, but would any other manager be allowed to carry on having taken a club who had won 5 trophies in 4 seasons (and had finished unbeaten in an entire season) and allowing them to regress so badly as to not win any trophies for 7 years? Of course Wenger deserves credit for the trophies we won from 2001-2005, but his methods aren't working anymore, it's been brutally highlighted season after season. Our board deserve the blame for persisting with him (because it was financially profitable to do so) but there's no question any other club with owners even remotely interested in football would have sacked him at the end of last season at the very latest.

And it has been said it depends on the targets his employers have set for him, not what the fans think is important in tptb eyes.

[Xhaka Can’t]

That proves my point. Managers have been sacked for less. But that's down to our Board. They don't want to rock the boat.

It doesn't prove your point at all - in fact it makes your point pointless as there is no criteria to support your 'point'.

[Power n Glory]

Really?

I reckon we are talking about a maximum of two Clubs here. Personally I think he should go, but lets get a bit of perspective here - during 7 barren seasons only two Clubs have outperformed us in the League on a consistent basis and one of those teams is currently below us.

If Wenger was managing in Spain, Italy or Germany, I think he'd have been sacked by now.