Match Reaction vs QPR

[Marc Overmars]

Shit result. That is only QPR's 3rd win in 18 games.

We weren't going to win every single remaining game of course, but it's very disappointing to see us beaten by such a poor team.

A reminder that there is still a lot of work to be done if we want 3rd.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Was not a very nice watch. Reminiscent of a few god awful away days. I am sensing a new Joker thread related to RVP's miss.

[Joker]

Ramsey playing from the left??? Then bringing on a useless Gervinho in his place when Oxlade Chamberlain should have come on? To top it all off, he brings on Chamakh who has done next to nothing all season.

We've had a decent run of results recently but this is more like the sort of performance we've come to expect this season. Absolutely listless and pathetic.

No question about it, Wenger needs to leave at the end of the season. The squad is not good enough, you could tell that by the substitutions we made today.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Zamora shat on us again. Vermaelen was all over the place again.

It's worrying because the formula QPR showed today is easily replicated for the pub teams.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

not exactly a surprise is it?

rvp looks knackered because he's carried half the shite in our team for 8 months. who do we have off the bench to make an impact? chamakh? park? :lol:

its games like these squad depth actually means something. unfortunately because of wengers massive fuck up at the start of the season we are suffering.

nevertheless we must move on and see this as a minor blip.

[Joker]

Pathetic performance and tactics.

Wenger needs to leave at the end of the season, he's simply a low quality manager these days. It's easy to look a good manager when we win 3-0 against a Villa side that didn't turn up, but today was the sort of occasion when managers need to earn their stripes. He still hasn't learnt that playing square pegs in round holes DOESN'T work. Why the fuck is he playing Ramsey from the left????! And why rely on Gervinho who needs to be sold in the summer and has been a massive disappointment?

[Marc Overmars]

nevertheless we must move on and see this as a minor blip.

No such thing as a minor blip with us. Confidence was sky high now it's probably on the floor, again.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

No such thing as a minor blip with us. Confidence was sky high now it's probably on the floor, again.

thats true.

and it stems down from the manager being mentally weak.

we will never win another trophy under wenger. its as simple as that.

cant wait til he's gone.

[Joker]

I'm not joking when I say some of the posters on GW could do a better job tactically than Wenger these days. The man is clueless.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

1 word....WengerOut

[milla]

Vermaelan was poor, but the entire left wing was the worst. There were no contribution from Gibbs and Ramsey.

QPR tactics was easy, they disrupted our midfield and closed down our right hand channel. We were playing 4-3-3 formation but our midfielders dont have the wide players on the left to pass to, making every pass so easy to read.

Wenger has quick players in Oxo, Gerv and Benayoun, use them!

[Joker]

1 word....WengerOut

Definitely. He gets paid millions a year to come out with genius decisions like playing Ramsey from the left :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I won't be too dark on the result, well, give it an hour or so due to winning the last seven but it was just very 05/06+06/07y.

[Marc Overmars]

Have we ever managed to salvage a result when Chamakh is brought on?

Don't know about anyone else but as soon as he takes the field, I give up hope.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Have we ever managed to salvage a result when Chamakh is brought on?

Don't know about anyone else but as soon as he takes the field, I give up hope.

His greatest moment was the Blackburn header.

We lost. :rose:

[hobson's choice]

Didn't watch the game, I was too lazy to get upstairs to the computer. Saw Ramsey played today, Wenger should just forget about him for the rest of this season.

Shit player

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Have we ever managed to salvage a result when Chamakh is brought on?

Don't know about anyone else but as soon as he takes the field, I give up hope.

It's a desperation move really. He is by trade a striker so he gets thrown on merely because we're losing despite never even coming close to scoring a goal. Stupid that he's the next viable striker, at least Torres is very good as a link man these days.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Poor result, but we all knew we loose at one point. No one was good enough today. not sure if it was tiredness due to the run or not, but we need to be better than that.

Like someone said lots of work to be done if they want 3rd.

But what happed has happend on to city we go.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Have we ever managed to salvage a result when Chamakh is brought on?

Don't know about anyone else but as soon as he takes the field, I give up hope.

Nope, can't remember the last time we won with him on the pitch tbh.

[Master Splinter]

As bad as some of Wenger's decisions were, the game was lost because of two embarrassing Vermaelen errors, and RVP missing a sitter at the other end. The poor passing, control and all-round sloppiness was not just because Ramsey was playing. It was almost as bad the performance in Milan. The pitch was awful, but that can't be an excuse for failing at all the basics. QPR worked hard, but the goals were gifted.

But yes, starting Ramsey on the left and belated and odd substitutions were classic WUMger. No-one comes out with credit today apart from Koscielny, and perhaps Szczesny for a good save at the end.

Positive results in the next few games and we can consign this to a bad day.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Definitely. He gets paid millions a year to come out with genius decisions like playing Ramsey from the left :lol:

would make sense if thats why we lost, maybe if TV5 had not been so poor and RVP put his sitter away we may have won that game. But AW silly tactic did not help.

[Joker]

The lack of creativity from midfield is another problem. Why is Song the only one attempting to make penetrative passes? He's the defensive midfielder, and although he's capable, this is not meant to be his primary role. This is why I wouldn't be opposed to starting AOC as part of a central 3 from now on.

[Joker]

And the RVP chance wasn't even a sitter tbh. I'm not one of his biggest fans but he had to hit it from outside the area because he lacks the pace to get away from the defender. Apart from that we barely created a chance.

[topgun]

Absolutely shocking performance,poor all over the pitch,no guts desire or balls,looked like a side that thought all they had to do was turn up,QPR wanted it more and it showed.No answer from our master tactican either on how to deal with a pub team.:censored:

[Marc Overmars]

It's a desperation move really. He is by trade a striker so he gets thrown on merely because we're losing despite never even coming close to scoring a goal. Stupid that he's the next viable striker, at least Torres is very good as a link man these days.

It's weird, most shit strikers will still score now and then and at least get into good areas for chances (regardless of game time they recieve), Chakma on the other hand is never involved in anything. I'd rather just let Vermaelen go mental and bomb forward if we need a goal rather than bring him on.

I will be staggered if we don't sell this guy in the summer. Such a fraud.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

And the RVP chance wasn't even a sitter tbh. I'm not one of his biggest fans but he had to hit it from outside the area because he lacks the pace to get away from the defender. Apart from that we barely created a chance.

Fair play, still you'd back him to score it.

[GP]

The lack of creativity from midfield is another problem. Why is Song the only one attempting to make penetrative passes? He's the defensive midfielder.

No he isn't. Try watching sometime.

[milla]

As bad as some of Wenger's decisions were, the game was lost because of two embarrassing Vermaelen errors, and RVP missing a sitter at the other end. The poor passing, control and all-round sloppiness was not just because Ramsey was playing. It was almost as bad the performance in Milan. The pitch was awful, but that can't be an excuse for failing at all the basics. QPR worked hard, but the goals were gifted.

But yes, starting Ramsey on the left and belated and odd substitutions were classic WUMger. No-one comes out with credit today apart from Koscielny, and perhaps Szczesny for a good save at the end.

Positive results in the next few games and we can consign this to a bad day.

Vermaelan was poor, but he could have done better with some help from Gibbs or Ramsey. As I said previously, out left wing didnt exist today.They were just two players in red shirt but did nothing for over 90 minutes. :coffee:

[Joker]

No he isn't. Try watching sometime.

I did watch the game and I know what I saw. Arteta is too conservative and Rosicky's more of a ball carrier rather than able to make eye-of-a-needle passes.

[GP]

I did watch the game and I know what I saw. Arteta is too conservative and Rosicky's more of a ball carrier rather than able to make eye-of-a-needle passes.

Eh? I'm saying Song isn't the defensive midfielder. Hasn't been for ages.

[Globalgunner]

These are the classic games that make many of us believe we can never win anything again under Wenger. A game like this against a team full of grafters managed by known clunkhead. Wenger never gets his tactics right whenever confronted by brute force. He seems to tell his boys to just get out there and play your game. QPR were hustling all over the pitch and whenever they did lose the ball they would simply dive and the shithead ref would give them the free. In this situation you need to show that you wont be bullied and get your tactics spot on for the first 45 at least, dont let them score.... . However our lightweight midfield of Song rosicky and Arteta are never up for a fight, and Vermaelen chose today to have another mindless match.

You need to prepare the team for the specific challenge they will face in each match. but it seems like we never do. I recall a few seasons ago, away to Stoke, the very first Delap throw in the very first minute......goal. Wenger wont win shit because he never buys the right sort of players and never imbues the ones he has with the right mentality. He will see us in 3-4 maybe 5-6 for the next decade but we stll wont have any silverware to show for it.

Problem is...if we dont look like we are improving, the new players that will make the quantum leap for us will never want to come and the few we need to keep will insist on leaving.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

These are the classic games that make many of us believe we can never win anything again under Wenger. A game like this against a team full of grafters managed by known clunkhead. Wenger never gets his tactics right whenever confronted by brute force. He seems to tell his boys to just get out there and play your game. QPR were hustling all over the pitch and whenever they did lose the ball they would simply dive and the shithead ref would give them the free. In this situation you need to show that you wont be bullied and get your tactics spot on for the first 45 at least, dont let them score.... . However our lightweight midfield of Song rosicky and Arteta are never up for a fight, and Vermaelen chose today to have another mindless match.

You need to prepare the team for the specific challenge they will face in each match. but it seems like we never do. I recall a few seasons ago, away to Stoke, the very first Delap throw in the very first minute......goal. Wenger wont win shit because he never buys the right sort of players and never imbues the ones he has with the right mentality. He will see us in 3-4 maybe 5-6 for the next decade but we stll wont have any silverware to show for it.Problem is...if we dont look like we are improving, the new players that will make the quantum leap for us will never want to come and the few we need to keep will insist on leaving.

What ?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

What ?

Global means league positions.

[Power n Glory]

I knew Wenger would start fucking it up once he had players available for selection. I put our recent good run of form down to Rosicky being played in the centre and Ox playing on the left. It's the right balance. Ramsey shouldn't be playing and as soon as he was made available for selection, I knew Wenger would start him again. I don't rate Wenger as a manager these days because this is the sort of shit he does when he has the options. By chance, he stumbled upon Rosicky and even though he was off today as I've heard, he's a natural central player and it took injuries and Wenger having no other central option to discover that. After all these years!

Ramsey on the left? Come on man! It doesn't take a genius to see that he'd flop at that sort of role. Our resurgence was down to the players feeling stung by the Milan result and it hurt their pride. Had nothing to do with any team talk or tactics, it was just down pride and the bad press written about their performance in Milan. But as soon as people starts waxing lyrical about our new found confidence, these muthafukaz start smelling themselves and believing their on BS. It happens all the time. QPR! How low can we sink? The team were on a high and full of confidence yet we can still pull off shock results like this. There is no new found grit or steel in this team. We saw this earlier this season and as warned, you can't judge this team off the back of a good run. Same story and we will continue to throw away results when we're expected to win. Back against the wall and then maybe they'll turn up. Losers.

[fakeyank]

Letters I wish u started ur poll now rather than before... :LOL:

[Cripps_orig]

Didnt watch the game, didnt listen to it either.

Havent seen the goals its unlikely i will watch MOTD

All i have to say on this is 2 things

Welcome back Arsenal

And

Wenger Out

The pressure is on and we cant win. Story of Wengers existence

[Cripps_orig]

Also how typical is it of us to concede 2 goals to two players who havent scored all season and in one case, hasnt scored for QPR at all :lol:

[Cripps_orig]

on the performance…
It is very frustrating because they left us the ball and waited for our mistakes. We took the ball, did not do a lot with it and made the mistakes. At the end of the day that made the result.

Our performance was not good enough to win this kind of game, especially in the duels. They had a little bit of extra special commitment that took advantage of us in some specific positions defensively. Overall we can only congratulate QPR for their attitude and be unhappy with our own performance

on the surprise nature of the defeat…
Any bad performance you can see coming. Each football game is a new start. It is not what you have made before that decides the game, it is what you produce on the day. And what we produced on the day was not good enough.

on the pitch…
The pitch is not smaller than any other pitch. The pitch was bad but it does not explain our performance. We did not create enough to win a football game.

on errors at the back…
I do not want to single anyone out but of course we made defensive mistakes. It is a good shock to come back to what has made our strength recently. Subconsciously something was missing today. In the Premier League, if you miss something on the commitment front you are beaten. That is what happened today.

on possible complacency…
It is difficult to single out one reason but why not? We played against a team who play for survival. We prepared properly but we missed something today and you could see that. Their keeper made a good save.

on the conceded goals…
We lost a game when our keeper had nothing to do. It is the first time this season, we were too open when we had the ball.

on the response…
We know how to respond, we have been exposed to this situation this season. We have a good opportunity on Sunday but it will be needed after giving away the points today.

Wengers comments

[Master Splinter]

Also how typical is it of us to concede 2 goals to two players who havent scored all season and in one case, hasnt scored for QPR at all :lol:

Clichy will score a fifty-yarder next week.

He will also put in a decent cross.

[Cripps_orig]

Hasnt Clichy already scored for them?

We'll lose that game but i as always will look on the brightside and it will be good to see Clichy, Toure and especially Nasri come home

How they are missed

[Master Splinter]

Clichy 'scored' a deflected goal which was then correctly given as a Steinsson own goal.

But my point was that Clichy would never be a danger to opposition defences (without the aid of huge deflections, of course).

[Gubby Allen]

A reminder that there is still a lot of work to be done if we want 3rd.

We'll finish 4th. We'll finish 4th next year too. We'll finish 4th every year for the next 14 years, which is when AW indicated he'll stay until.

[-Xs-]

Chance to build a bit of a gap: check
Playing a team we should beat on paper: check
Time to mess it up? That's a big check

Sounds a bit self inflicted again by not playing players in their natural positions. (made worse if they are pretty shit players to begin with...)

[selassie]

Saw bits of the game on a really choppy stream and from what I saw we were 2nd best for large spells of the game. Today is a prime reason why we are still very very short of being a title challnging team and why we need to be very careful with the fixtures in the run-in, I do not want to see us undo all the good effort we've put in lately by collapsing and finishing outside of the top 4.

I knew our spell would end at some point but I didn't expect us to lose today and certainly not in the manner we lost.

I still do not understand Arsene sometimes, why he feels the need to accomodate Ramsey in the team & on the left when we had 2 credible options on the bench is just a plain mystery.

Despite all of that we're still in a good position, we do have some very difficult games coming up so need to be on the ball for the remainder of the season. The game against Chelsea could prove very crucial and I do not like the fact Chelsea are picking up form now.

[Niall_Quinn]

First game with the pressure off and the lads take it easy. Plenty still to be learned then. We really don't know how to go for the jugular. A win today and the spuds would have packed it in. Now we transform a potential 6 point gap into 3 points to draw level. Stupid. We fell off the tightrope because we weren't paying proper attention. We always take these games too lightly. Wenger still believes we have enough in the squad to rotate things. We don't. We barely have 11 decent players. Ramsey isn't one of them this season. Good job it's City next week. It could have been two losses on the bounce of we had another easy game.

[BOBN]

vermaleans garbage.

the boys been found out. ridculously overrated player.

we need a new CB because this guy is a squad player only.

[Niall_Quinn]

What was it, five massive wins and the one careless loss. TV gets a couple of vital goals during the winning streak and plays solid at the back, PLUS, he gives 100% effort. Now he fucks up and he's out. Wenger is in, five games later he's out again. We were never going to win this league. I'm amazed we are third and hoping we can hang on to it. I expected us to finish between eighth and tenth and that's the way it was shaping up for a while back there. We were missing out on Europe, probably missing out on signings as a result, probably losing our best player too. Now all that has turned around. We have a chance to reverse all those negatives and turn them into positives and we aren't even going to have to wait until the last day of the transfer window this time around, Podolski is on his way. So why are we doing the everyone is shit, everyone needs to GTFO routine again. This season is a lucky escape, we should be thanking our lucky stars (and to be fair they put some effort in to).

[Cripps_orig]

Tbf after BOBNs previous shockers, RVP better than Bergkamp and Gervinho better than Nasri, :lol: what he says can be taken with a pinch of salt.

However there is an element of truth in what he says

Verm has been a bit shit lately. His goals lately has clouded his shitness at the back in recent times but apparently they came to the fore today. He'll be fine with Mert but unfortunately the big German is out for the season so hoping Kos and Verm can do well for the remaining games and keep us top 5

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

but its okay cause we've had a good season and wenger will turn it around next year :lol:

mugs :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

but its okay cause we've had a good season and wenger will turn it around next year :lol:

mugs :haha:

Who's making mugs of us? Vermaelen? We haven't spend £500mill on transfers. We haven't got £200mill coming in from Chinese sweatshops. We actually make profits in the transfer window. We construct our own glass ceiling every year. If we finish third that's the absolute most we could expect under those circumstances. Look upstairs if you want to find who's taking the piss.

[fakeyank]

First game with the pressure off and the lads take it easy. Plenty still to be learned then. We really don't know how to go for the jugular. A win today and the spuds would have packed it in. Now we transform a potential 6 point gap into 3 points to draw level. Stupid. We fell off the tightrope because we weren't paying proper attention. We always take these games too lightly. Wenger still believes we have enough in the squad to rotate things. We don't. We barely have 11 decent players. Ramsey isn't one of them this season. Good job it's City next week. It could have been two losses on the bounce of we had another easy game.

Why do we need to rotate things? We just have 7 games left in the season. If the players cant be arsed to bust a gut for 630 minutes over 7 weeks, then we dont need shit kickers like them and their head honcho- Arsene Wenger! This team fucked off any chance of winning a trophy and with the only thing to play for and build a gap, they go and decide to fuck things off!
Ach, Zim, myself have said time and time again... this shit happens every freaking season. Build a winning or unbeaten run and quite a few supporters start taking their rose tinted glasses. Arsene Wenger is FINISHED as an Arsenal manager. Any longer he stays, its like dragging a dead man on our backs. Time to say good bye!

[fakeyank]

Who's making mugs of us? Vermaelen? We haven't spend £500mill on transfers. We haven't got £200mill coming in from Chinese sweatshops. We actually make profits in the transfer window. We construct our own glass ceiling every year. If we finish third that's the absolute most we could expect under those circumstances. Look upstairs if you want to find who's taking the piss.

I didnt watch the game today but from what I hear, I am sure Stan and PHW phoned Arsene last night to play Ramsey on the left, leave Ox out and bring Chamakh on.

Bloody board and their team selections! :lol:

[Letters]

:haha: at this thread and the knee-jerking and whaaambulances.

Yeah, we shouldn't have lost to QPR. ManYoo shouldn't have lost to Blackburn at home. City shouldn't have lost to Sunderland away. These results will happen. They happen to every team. We've just won 7 in a row, no team wins forever. The important thing is we pick ourselves up and win the next one, which won't be easy but City are wobbling and there for the taking. They'll play football against us which suits us.

Come on Arsenal :scarf:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:lol: :doh:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Who's making mugs of us? Vermaelen? We haven't spend £500mill on transfers. We haven't got £200mill coming in from Chinese sweatshops. We actually make profits in the transfer window. We construct our own glass ceiling every year. If we finish third that's the absolute most we could expect under those circumstances. Look upstairs if you want to find who's taking the piss.

who's making mugs of us? is that a serious question?

i'll tell you who.

wenger for fucking it up every year
the board for being ****s and filling their pockets at the expense of trophies
fans that think its all ok and we're having a good season

thats who making mugs of us.

[Power n Glory]

The Board shouldn't crop up in this discussion, in the same way they weren't mentioned on the match thread in our last few games. It doesn't take £200m to beat QPR, it's a bullshit argument considering we smashed Milan 3-0 not so long ago. Bad preparation, lack of motivation, mistakes on the field and poor management decisions lost us this game.

[BOBN]

Tbf after BOBNs previous shockers, RVP better than Bergkamp and Gervinho better than Nasri, :lol: what he says can be taken with a pinch of salt.

However there is an element of truth in what he says

Verm has been a bit shit lately. His goals lately has clouded his shitness at the back in recent times but apparently they came to the fore today. He'll be fine with Mert but unfortunately the big German is out for the season so hoping Kos and Verm can do well for the remaining games and keep us top 5
hes not done a single thing to prove hes a good defender. ajax were leaking goals left right and centre when he was there, in fact they eventually shunted him out to left back, no doubt to get him out the way.

his first season at arsenal we conceeded more goals than the previous one, even with "nobody could possibly be worse" william gallas in and around it.

he scored a couple of screamers and shows aggression on the ground and it the air and thats it, hero status achieved. the rest of his game is schoolboy. george graham must be turning in his grave.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Why do we need to rotate things? We just have 7 games left in the season. If the players cant be arsed to bust a gut for 630 minutes over 7 weeks, then we dont need shit kickers like them and their head honcho- Arsene Wenger! This team fucked off any chance of winning a trophy and with the only thing to play for and build a gap, they go and decide to fuck things off!
Ach, Zim, myself have said time and time again... this shit happens every freaking season. Build a winning or unbeaten run and quite a few supporters start taking their rose tinted glasses. Arsene Wenger is FINISHED as an Arsenal manager. Any longer he stays, its like dragging a dead man on our backs. Time to say good bye!

:haha: no he is not as he won't be sacked.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

The Board shouldn't crop up in this discussion, in the same way they weren't mentioned on the match thread in our last few games. It doesn't take £200m to beat QPR, it's a bullshit argument considering we smashed Milan 3-0 not so long ago. Bad preparation, lack of motivation, mistakes on the field and poor management decisions lost us this game.

it should.

because had they got their fingers out their arses and bought some players we'd actually have some decent depth off the bench to be able to beat teams like this. the players are absolutely knackered yet we have nothing to inspire us to victory. absolutely no bench. and it was also evident against milan when we needed a world beater to come on and really push us for the last 20. yet we had nothing.

you cant blame the players they've given it their all over the past month to sort out the massive fuck up that happened last summer.

[Power n Glory]

He left Gervinho and Ox on the bench. He chose not to buy and decided to loan players out because he couldn't give them much playing time. I won't accept fatigue as an excuse either because there was no midweek game. It's a flimsy excuse IMO and one everyone likes to revert to when results don't go our way we had enough in our locker to beat QPR an Wenger has to look at why he's starting Ransey ahead of Ox and Gervinho and why Chamakh keeps getting games.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

gervinho? he's cack. people cant on one hand say he's shit then try to justify their argument by suggesting he's good and that he should have started.

he was never going to be a world beater this season and wont be for a few years (at least), so no point talking about him.

as for the ox, yes, thats where i agree with you. but is that really enough for a club pushing for glory? it clearly isn't. we need more. who's to blame? board and manager. not the players.

[BOBN]

people were saying pires was shit after one season, henry cant finish for shyt etc.

the biggest flaws in gervinhos game are cowardliness and lack of composure. exactly the things you expect to improve over time.

but hes still had a better season than nasri.

[Power n Glory]

gervinho? he's cack. people cant on one hand say he's shit then try to justify their argument by suggesting he's good and that he should have started.

he was never going to be a world beater this season and wont be for a few years (at least), so no point talking about him.

as for the ox, yes, thats where i agree with you. but is that really enough for a club pushing for glory? it clearly isn't. we need more. who's to blame? board and manager. not the players.

It shouldn't take a world class signing to beat QPR. We were undone by mistakes by Vermaelen and he hasn't played all season so we can't even talk about fatigue in his case. The players and manager are to blame for this game. Forget the league for a second. Man for man, we're a better team than QPR and should have enough players to beat them.

Come summer, if we allow players to leave and fail to sign players to get us challenging for the title, then the conversation about finances, ambition and Board becomes relevant. What do you expect them to do at this point in the season? Wenger didn't want to sign players and loaned more players out. Whose at fault for that?

[Power n Glory]

people were saying pires was shit after one season, henry cant finish for shyt etc.

the biggest flaws in gervinhos game are cowardliness and lack of composure. exactly the things you expect to improve over time.

but hes still had a better season than nasri.

Nope, disagree with that. He's always had a rep for looking like Bambi on the ball and I can't see thy changing anytime soon. He's a coward like Hleb and has no idea what to do with the ball in the danger areas. The fact that Ramsey is getting games over him at this stage should be a worry for him.

[hobson's choice]

Finally got around to watching the game, I will keep saying this, Vernaelan is good football player, but at this level he is not a reliable defender.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Vermaelen is our David Luiz.

[Kano]

obviously dropped points were due after 7 matches but i was expecting at least a draw here.

the reasons behind ramsey on the left aren't so weird, its all about ball retention away from home. have a man wide that can tuck inside when the ball is won back in the centre.

i think it follows on the success we had with benny earlier in the season - the difference is that benny can be more disciplined and direct out wide. ramsey still hasn't worked out what sort of player he is yet, the indecisiveness in his play shows he still needs to figure out what makes him really tick.

and please, can we get santos back in the team. gibbs has done ok but those huge gaps on the left are too damaging for us.

[Tipsychubbs]

Finally got around to watching the game, I will keep saying this, Vernaelan is good football player, but at this level he is not a reliable defender.

His aggression and overall football skills should be used in the middle. Vermaelen and Song CMF partnership.

Veira-Petit MK II :cloud9:

[Letters]

Letters I wish u started ur poll now rather than before... :LOL:

The funny thing is people in the thread I started were accusing others of knee-jerking for changing their position after a 'few good games' (I would suggest that 7 wins on the bounce is a bit more than that), and then after that run 1 defeat and you and the other toddlers on here throw their toys out of the pram with wearying predictability. :lol:

[BOBN]

His aggression and overall football skills should be used in the middle. Vermaelen and Song CMF partnership.

Veira-Petit MK II :cloud9:
please. he would be a nothing there.

put him at left-back and tell him to shut his fookin mouth. ajax had the right idea. vermalean-gibbs-santos is lovely balance for that position.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th places will only be separated by a few points, even GD for that matter. That was a vital 3 points we lost yesterday; thing is, can we keep it together going into the tough crunch games ahead? City still have the depth to toss us aside and Chelsea, who kicked their manager to the curb in less than a season and appointed an unproven as interim, have been on the rebound and looking like glimpses of their old selves.

I just don't get how a manager becomes bigger than a club. Why is this messianic status still being accorded to Wenger? I know he got us to play the best club football at one point and won us some titles - barring the big one, the CL - but it is very apparent that his managerial skills plateaued and have been going down the other side of the hill for quite some years now. It's like the game has evolved beyond his scope. I don't want to hear anything about big money being spent by other clubs because I'm sure SAF and Manure have not spent shit loads of cash and just look at their level of success. It's all about expectations, ambition and pride, of which we seem to have none. Every season we settle for less than the previous one.

[Power n Glory]

The funny thing is people in the thread I started were accusing others of knee-jerking for changing their position after a 'few good games' (I would suggest that 7 wins on the bounce is a bit more than that), and then after that run 1 defeat and you and the other toddlers on here throw their toys out of the pram with wearying predictability. :lol:

Why not just focus on the football instead of worrying about fans reactions? Why is it that the reaction here on GW gets you more riled than our team losing? You always come in here claiming reactions are 'knee jerk'. Who gives a shit! It's an instant reaction and people are pissed about losing. Plus the 'toddlers' comment. Is that really necessary?

[Niall_Quinn]

The Board shouldn't crop up in this discussion, in the same way they weren't mentioned on the match thread in our last few games. It doesn't take £200m to beat QPR, it's a bullshit argument considering we smashed Milan 3-0 not so long ago. Bad preparation, lack of motivation, mistakes on the field and poor management decisions lost us this game.

But it did crop up! Because the criticism seems to be not just about losing to QPR but about the cyclical failure to compete at the very top. If people are complaining about 3rd place and saying TV needs to GTFO and Wenger should be sacked and so on, I assume this is not on the back of a single loss to QPR but rather on the performance across the season as a whole? Or even multiple seasons? Or fuck, maybe it is just based on one game. But assuming not.

We're usually fourth, right now we're third. If that's not good enough then are we supposed to be top or second? Above two clubs who pour countless millions more into their squads? Be nice if we were but if we're going to start sacking everyone then the aim must be to get something better. So to compete at the top we'll need to start spending on the levels of the Manchester clubs. So this is why the board absolutely should be mentioned if other individuals are going to be singled out. They won't spend the money so we're already as high as we can go. So why do people want to sack everyone for getting us as far as can realistically be expected? Shouldn't they want to sack the fuckers who have imposed the glass ceiling?

[Power n Glory]

U
But it did crop up! Because the criticism seems to be not just about losing to QPR but about the cyclical failure to compete at the very top. If people are complaining about 3rd place and saying TV needs to GTFO and Wenger should be sacked and so on, I assume this is not on the back of a single loss to QPR but rather on the performance across the season as a whole? Or even multiple seasons? Or fuck, maybe it is just based on one game. But assuming not.

We're usually fourth, right now we're third. If that's not good enough then are we supposed to be top or second? Above two clubs who pour countless millions more into their squads? Be nice if we were but if we're going to start sacking everyone then the aim must be to get something better. So to compete at the top we'll need to start spending on the levels of the Manchester clubs. So this is why the board absolutely should be mentioned if other individuals are going to be singled out. They won't spend the money so we're already as high as we can go. So why do people want to sack everyone for getting us as far as can realistically be expected? Shouldn't they want to sack the fuckers who have imposed the glass ceiling?

QPR shouldn't be the glass ceiling. If we lost against City and the clubs that spent more than us, then you'd have a valid point.

[Niall_Quinn]

U

QPR shouldn't be the glass ceiling. If we lost against City and the clubs that spent more than us, then you'd have a valid point.

No, the lack of investment is the glass ceiling. If we finish third this season we'll have our noses pushed against it. I do have a point, you're ignoring it and talking about something else.

[Letters]

3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th places will only be separated by a few points, even GD for that matter. That was a vital 3 points we lost yesterday;

Well, yes, it will be tight but you could equally say it was a vital 21 points we got in the 7 games preceding yesterday's game.
Did you think we were going win win every game till the end of the season? Every team loses silly games sometimes, as I said ManYoo lost to Blackburn at home this year. It happens. The important thing is how will we react? I am worried this will be the 3rd bad run of the season and at this stage that would prove vital.


I just don't get how a manager becomes bigger than a club. Why is this messianic status still being accorded to Wenger?

The answer to both of those questions is the same: He isn't. I haven't heard anyone on here argue differently.

[Letters]

It's an instant reaction and people are pissed about losing. Plus the 'toddlers' comment. Is that really necessary?

It isn't an instant reaction, there was an initial reaction but then a lot of the posts are hours after the game.
I was annoyed about yesterday's result too but let's have a bit of perspective, the loss comes after winning 7 games in a row, we're just not going to win every game and it's idiotic to think we would.

If people act like toddlers then I think it's reasonable to pick them up on it. If yesterday's result was the start of another slump then I'll be as pissed off as anyone but that can only be seen after the next few games. Let's see before throwing toys out of the pram.

[Power n Glory]

No, the lack of investment is the glass ceiling. If we finish third this season we'll have our noses pushed against it. I do have a point, you're ignoring it and talking about something else. Yeah, I'm talking about football. When we lose Carling Cup finals against relegated teams and lose games like how we lost yesterday, little sense in talking about our finances. When you flip the coin, there are teams that have beaten us operating on a smaller budget. How can that be explained? It has nothing to do with Board level stuff, just a well drilled organised, motivated team and a coach with a gameplan. That's all it boils down to. We were on a 7 game winning streak and have beaten better teams than QPR. You weren't talking about squad depth, the board and finances then. Circumanstances regarding top level dealings were the same then as they are now. It comes down to bad preparation and our players losing focus. Can't keep blaming the board for every loss. As said before, when the pre season preparation starts, that's where they'll be more influential and should be setting goals for the club, but right now, this is the managers and players territory. 90 minutes on a football field. I get the frustration about always finishing 3rd/4th but it's because of these silly slips and not because we keep dropping point against teams with more money than us.

[hobson's choice]

We're usually fourth, right now we're third. If that's not good enough then are we supposed to be top or second? Above two clubs who pour countless millions more into their squads?

This annoys me right here, yes City and United spent a good bit, but in all reality, they really aren't that much better than us, and, neither are the other so-called big clubs in Europe(Barring Barca). And what frustrates me, is that with better signings over the past couple of years, we easily could be competing for major titles.

The fact there aren't any truly great teams out there, and we have the ability to get back up to the elite elite level right away, if they do their jobs well, and sign some good quality, and they don't have to spend silly to do that.

[Power n Glory]

It isn't an instant reaction, there was an initial reaction but then a lot of the posts are hours after the game.
I was annoyed about yesterday's result too but let's have a bit of perspective, the loss comes after winning 7 games in a row, we're just not going to win every game and it's idiotic to think we would.

If people act like toddlers then I think it's reasonable to pick them up on it. If yesterday's result was the start of another slump then I'll be as pissed off as anyone but that can only be seen after the next few games. Let's see before throwing toys out of the pram.

7 wins in a row doesn't fix what people have seen over the last 6/7 years and the worrying trend we often see. You've been wrong for a long time about the squad and you always come up with this sort of reaction. It's pretty typical and there is probably no point in calling you out on it anymore because you're not getting it.

[Letters]

You've been wrong for a long time about the squad.

:lol:

</discussion>

If you're going to just declare yourself right then we have nothing to talk about :good:

[Power n Glory]

:lol:

</discussion>

If you're going to just declare yourself right then we have nothing to talk about :good:

Yeah, we don't and you can join the ignore list.

[Tipsychubbs]

please. he would be a nothing there.

put him at left-back and tell him to shut his fookin mouth. ajax had the right idea. vermalean-gibbs-santos is lovely balance for that position.

He can also go missing at LB, we've seen it before. It's almost like he wants a more ambitious role, I still feel he's being wasted as a defender. l felt that as soon as he started here at arsenal. The aggression and technique would suit a midfield role, like song moving permanently from CB to DMF/CMF.

[Marc Overmars]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnwltqhA7R1qzj7lm.png

[GP]

:lol:

Good WUMing from png

[Letters]

Yeah, we don't and you can join the ignore list.

:woohoo:

[Joker]

The anger at this defeat was based on the fact that we've seen matches like this too often this season, especially against teams that close down quickly and are committed to the cause. It was the sheer predictability of the defensive howlers that frustrated fans so much. It's not a one off defeat, we've seen these sorts of uninterested performances at irregular intervals for the best part of 5 years now. We can't blame City's "financial doping" or referees for these failures, the buck stops with the manager for failing to motivate and organise the players to deal with these sorts of threats, and for buying players who are obviously not at the level required if you want to at least compete with the best teams in the League and Champions League.

[fakeyank]

The funny thing is people in the thread I started were accusing others of knee-jerking for changing their position after a 'few good games' (I would suggest that 7 wins on the bounce is a bit more than that), and then after that run 1 defeat and you and the other toddlers on here throw their toys out of the pram with wearying predictability. :lol:

:lol:

No, we all said that this is a stupid trend that happens every freaking season. How most of you cannot seem to comprehend that is beyond me? Every season, we go on an unbeaten run and this happens without FAIL! But where do we end up come the end of the season?! No where..

I posted this to ur profile but the real stats are not P8 W7 L1

It is P31 W18 L9 and out of every cup competition.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah, I'm talking about football. When we lose Carling Cup finals against relegated teams and lose games like how we lost yesterday, little sense in talking about our finances. When you flip the coin, there are teams that have beaten us operating on a smaller budget. How can that be explained? It has nothing to do with Board level stuff, just a well drilled organised, motivated team and a coach with a gameplan. That's all it boils down to. We were on a 7 game winning streak and have beaten better teams than QPR. You weren't talking about squad depth, the board and finances then. Circumanstances regarding top level dealings were the same then as they are now. It comes down to bad preparation and our players losing focus. Can't keep blaming the board for every loss. As said before, when the pre season preparation starts, that's where they'll be more influential and should be setting goals for the club, but right now, this is the managers and players territory. 90 minutes on a football field. I get the frustration about always finishing 3rd/4th but it's because of these silly slips and not because we keep dropping point against teams with more money than us.

You've changed the subject entirely. My original comments were directed at the idea TV and Wenger should be out because they aren't of a sufficient standard. My argument was we're 3rd in the table and if you want to go up another level then get the chequebook out. This is simple to understand.

Don't disagree about improving at the squad level in terms of preparation, tactics and the like. But that has nothing to do what I was talking about. You're the guy who insisted the board shouldn't be discussed. I was just explaining to somebody else why being 3rd isn't grounds for sacking everyone.

I get buzzed when we win and pissed off when we lose too, just like everyone. But there are some pretty crazy swings going on with some people. It's silly.

[Niall_Quinn]

This annoys me right here, yes City and United spent a good bit, but in all reality, they really aren't that much better than us, and, neither are the other so-called big clubs in Europe(Barring Barca). And what frustrates me, is that with better signings over the past couple of years, we easily could be competing for major titles.

The fact there aren't any truly great teams out there, and we have the ability to get back up to the elite elite level right away, if they do their jobs well, and sign some good quality, and they don't have to spend silly to do that.

What? We slumped when we lost all our full backs. We raised our game when they returned. Before that we were all over the place when we lost all our central defenders. If we had bags of cash (which we do) we could buy quality replacements. But we don't spend the money and we make do with players like Djourou and Chamakh. And other lightweights too, to be fair, but hard to criticise them for their efforts over recent weeks. We're nowhere near either of the Manchester clubs and take a look at their goal difference too. They have the squads to compete across a full season, we get a few key injuries and we're screwed. A few more points here or there and we still would be third. I think people are underestimating the value of those 21 points we've recently picked up. If a few weeks ago anyone had been asked will we have 21 out of the next 24 points they would have said no way because it seemed too fanciful. 21 out of 24 is not grounds to get on the team and manager's back again. They've hit third despite the lack of investment and that's pretty good really. Thought it was going to be a lot worse.

[fakeyank]

:haha: no he is not as he won't be sacked.

And thats the sad part, isnt it?

We will still have WUMger showing 4th place as the biggest trophy.. he will say that to be where we are after being 17th is a great achievement, like he wasnt the person who put us in that shit hole in the first place! :lol:

IF we end up being 3rd or 4th, then we must have an open top bus parade... heck its the biggest trophy we will win under AW. I still think we will do everything possible to fuck our chances of top 4. As I write this, Spurs are winning and Chelsea won yesterday... Oh, guess who we play next week? City!! :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

And thats the sad part, isnt it?

We will still have WUMger showing 4th place as the biggest trophy.. he will say that to be where we are after being 17th is a great achievement, like he wasnt the person who put us in that shit hole in the first place! :lol:

IF we end up being 3rd or 4th, then we must have an open top bus parade... heck its the biggest trophy we will win under AW. I still think we will do everything possible to fuck our chances of top 4. As I write this, Spurs are winning and Chelsea won yesterday... Oh, guess who we play next week? City!! :haha:

Fucking man up would you. Oh, the spuds are winning, the chavs are winning, we're going to get caught. Let's hope the team has more bollocks than some of the fans or else we really are in for a hiding.

[Dennis Bendtner]

And thats the sad part, isnt it?

We will still have WUMger showing 4th place as the biggest trophy.. he will say that to be where we are after being 17th is a great achievement, like he wasnt the person who put us in that shit hole in the first place! :lol:

IF we end up being 3rd or 4th, then we must have an open top bus parade... heck its the biggest trophy we will win under AW. I still think we will do everything possible to fuck our chances of top 4. As I write this, Spurs are winning and Chelsea won yesterday... Oh, guess who we play next week? City!! :haha:

I suppose you were shitting it going into every game of that 7 match run eh.

[fakeyank]

Fucking man up would you. Oh, the spuds are winning, the chavs are winning, we're going to get caught. Let's hope the team has more bollocks than some of the fans or else we really are in for a hiding.

They definitely dont have more bollocks than me... they have shown that for 6 seasons.

[Coney]

It will all be OK when we beat citeh. :good:

[Marc Overmars]

City will beat us 0-2.

[Globalgunner]

the point LETTERS is that no one appointed you judge over who is being childish and throwing their toys out of the pram. Your opinion is no more valid than any others here. People have a right to be pissed at yesterdays result because not only was it a bad result. IT WAS A BAD PERFORMANCE. Devoid of the required input from a team looking to achieve its now stated target of 3rd. 3rd is significantly more valuable than 4th for reasons we are all aware of. Even Wenger accepted this after the match

Moreover the major point is that we have been here before, last season and the one before that and so on. The club is stagnating, and no improvement is visible year on year. Wenger now comes out and lambasts the team when it is obvious he shares the main blame for poor selections and preparation. Notghing will change with this man still in charge.

The worrying thing is that we have seen monumental collapses like last season when we lost something like 5 of the last 8 and were just lucky to stay in 4th. Wenger and his team have previous in this regards.

We should not keep making excuses for the man

[fakeyank]

I suppose you were shitting it going into every game of that 7 match run eh.

Yes, I was... I have mentioned it every thread that we have this unbeaten run every season where fans get blinded by Arsene's genius! :lol:

Our specialty in completely imploding after losses is very well known... dont believe me? 07/08 after Eduardo's leg break, 09/10 after losing to Barca, last season after losing to Birmingham. We are going into a game against City coming off the back of a loss to one of the crappiest team in the league. I am more confident in recent AW's team at imploding and completely pissing off the season, rather than them picking up and winning.

[hobson's choice]

What? We slumped when we lost all our full backs. We raised our game when they returned. Before that we were all over the place when we lost all our central defenders. If we had bags of cash (which we do) we could buy quality replacements. But we don't spend the money and we make do with players like Djourou and Chamakh. And other lightweights too, to be fair, but hard to criticise them for their efforts over recent weeks. We're nowhere near either of the Manchester clubs and take a look at their goal difference too. They have the squads to compete across a full season, we get a few key injuries and we're screwed. A few more points here or there and we still would be third. I think people are underestimating the value of those 21 points we've recently picked up. If a few weeks ago anyone had been asked will we have 21 out of the next 24 points they would have said no way because it seemed too fanciful. 21 out of 24 is not grounds to get on the team and manager's back again. They've hit third despite the lack of investment and that's pretty good really. Thought it was going to be a lot worse.

I'm not criticising this team at all, i'm happy at where we are at all, but the reality is City and United with all their money, aren't miles ahead of us at. We have the ability to compete with them. Let's be honest, this is not a great era of football players, with the right type of signings we could compete with those fukkers and anybody else. Look at City with all the money they spend, if Silva aint performing, they look ordinary, same for Manc with Rooney, Madrid with Ronaldo and so on.

My point is, lets use money as an issue, because we were competing before, and we didn't have the money United and all the other big Euro clubs had.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Yes, I was... I have mentioned it every thread that we have this unbeaten run every season where fans get blinded by Arsene's genius! :lol:

Our specialty in completely imploding after losses is very well known... dont believe me? 07/08 after Eduardo's leg break, 09/10 after losing to Barca, last season after losing to Birmingham. We are going into a game against City coming off the back of a loss to one of the crappiest team in the league. I am more confident in recent AW's team at imploding and completely pissing off the season, rather than them picking up and winning.

Oh hai. Football must be very fulfilling for you.

[fakeyank]

Oh hai. Football must be very fulfilling for you.

It is... I treat recent AW teams like a retarded child you have. You love it and hope that one day, the child will get better and be like the other kids but realistically you know that its not going to happen.

I love Arsenal and I will still watch if they are in the Championship or in League 1. I just want us to get rid of AW and start afresh.

[Lord Nelson]

It is... I treat recent AW teams like a retarded child you have. You love it and hope that one day, the child will get better and be like the other kids but realistically you know that its not going to happen.

I love Arsenal and I will still watch if they are in the Championship or in League 1. I just want us to get rid of AW and start afresh.

Yesterdays result compounded by the c..nts winning this afternoon! Adebayor is a traitor wanker who I fucking hate!! Pissed off right now!!!

[Jens' Face]

I just don't get how a manager becomes bigger than a club. Why is this messianic status still being accorded to Wenger? .


The answer to both of those questions is the same: He isn't.

Why is this messianic status being accorded to Wenger!?!

He isn't, I told you, he isn't!


The answer can't be the same to both questions.

[Power n Glory]

Oh hai. Football must be very fulfilling for you.


Why is this messianic status being accorded to Wenger!?!

He isn't, I told you, he isn't!


The answer can't be the same to both questions.

Blast from the past! Welcome back, Jen's Face.

[Lord Nelson]

No, the lack of investment is the glass ceiling. If we finish third this season we'll have our noses pushed against it. I do have a point, you're ignoring it and talking about something else.

Hate to say it, but Harry Redknapp does not have massive funds! But look at the spuds! In my opinion, they will get third. Even if Wenger had money given to him, he would waste it on signings from fucking japan or something! He is just tactically inept. Not sure who would replace him though?

[fakeyank]

Hate to say it, but Harry Redknapp does not have massive funds! But look at the spuds! In my opinion, they will get third. Even if Wenger had money given to him, he would waste it on signings from fucking japan or something! He is just tactically inept. Not sure who would replace him though?

Forget arry, look at SAF.. utd don't spend anywhere close to Chelsea n city yet look at where they are n where we are! One person is concerned about things on the football pitch while the other is busy getting low with the board and being their mouthpiece.

[-Xs-]

We'll be ok against city, as long as Wenger doesn't play silly buggers by having players playing out of position to satisfy his madness

[Letters]

the point LETTERS is that no one appointed you judge over who is being childish and throwing their toys out of the pram. Your opinion is no more valid than any others here.

No it isn't. But I have the right to express it as does everyone else. I haven't stopped anyone else expressing their opinion but I have the right to express mine and say what I think of other people's.

[Letters]

Hate to say it, but Harry Redknapp does not have massive funds! But look at the spuds

Below us, having once had a 10 point gap over us?

'Arry :bow:

And he's spent a lot more than Wenger, while we're at it. He's a decent manager but he ain't the messiah.

[Letters]

Forget arry, look at SAF.. utd don't spend anywhere close to Chelsea n city yet look at where they are n where we are!

That is a more valid comparison but Ferguson is just about the best manager of all time.
It's like comparing someone to Usain Bolt, realising they're not as fast and concluding they must be shit.
Ferguson > Wenger, clearly. But Ferguson > everyone, so it's irrelevant.
The more relevant question is who could we realistically replace Wenger with, given that the board wouldn't change and they set the agenda, who would do better? I'm not saying there is no-one out there who could but I'd suggest the list is not as long as you seem to think.

[GP]

That is a more valid comparison but Ferguson is just about the best manager of all time.
It's like comparing someone to Usain Bolt, realising they're not as fast and concluding they must be shit.
Ferguson > Wenger, clearly. But Ferguson > everyone, so it's irrelevant.
The more relevant question is who could we realistically replace Wenger with, given that the board wouldn't change and they set the agenda, who would do better? I'm not saying there is no-one out there who could but I'd suggest the list is not as long as you seem to think.

You're wrong!

Now don't challenge my opinion or I'll put you on ignore :angry:

: p'n'g:

[LDG]

We were gonna drop points and have an off day at some point. Happens to every team. As long as we don't go on a massive losing streak. Which I don't think we will.

Meh.

On to City. Time to beat the shit out of that little lesbian.

[Power n Glory]

You're wrong!

Now don't challenge my opinion or I'll put you on ignore :angry:

: p'n'g:

Don't be a prick.

If you're going to wum leave me out of it.

[GP]

:haha:

[Joker]

I forgot, you're not allowed to criticise Wenger on this message-board, otherwise the pro-Wenger brigade will come down on you like a ton of bricks for "wrong" thinking :yawn:

http://arseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/slip23.jpg

Anyway, the above frame shows how Arteta's to blame for the second goal. He completely fails to track Diakite's run, despite being the deepest lying midfielder (Song is ahead of him). For those who say he's playing as the DMF so we shouldn't expect creativity from him and he's doing a good job "ticking things over", well shouldn't we also expect from our defensive midfielder that he should track off the ball midfield runners? Arteta obviously doesn't have the experience or ability to play this role, having never done this in his life, so why is he playing there?

[Flavs]

It's weird, most shit strikers will still score now and then and at least get into good areas for chances (regardless of game time they recieve), Chakma on the other hand is never involved in anything. I'd rather just let Vermaelen go mental and bomb forward if we need a goal rather than bring him on.

I will be staggered if we don't sell this guy in the summer. Such a fraud.

Square peg round hole.

Sad for the player as much as the fans really he doesnt deserve to have his reputation destroyed like this.

[GP]

Square peg round hole.

Sad for the player as much as the fans really he doesnt deserve to have his reputation destroyed like this.

He's doing it to himself. He had plenty of game time and didn't deliver. Now he doens't even look to get involved in the play or get into decent positions.

Pointless player.

[Flavs]

He's doing it to himself. He had plenty of game time and didn't deliver. Now he doens't even look to get involved in the play or get into decent positions.

Pointless player.

he is an aerial player in a team that doesn't have an aerial game, he also plays with his back to the goal while midfielders overlap him, which ours don't. The only surprising thing so far is that Wenger hasnt stuck him on the right wing to "improve his decision making"

Oh and i see Bendtner scored again for Sunderland...a header...

Fucking Wenger :ilt:

[LDG]

I forgot, you're not allowed to criticise Wenger on this message-board, otherwise the pro-Wenger brigade will come down on you like a ton of bricks for "wrong" thinking :yawn:

http://arseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/slip23.jpg

Anyway, the above frame shows how Arteta's to blame for the second goal. He completely fails to track Diakite's run, despite being the deepest lying midfielder (Song is ahead of him). For those who say he's playing as the DMF so we shouldn't expect creativity from him and he's doing a good job "ticking things over", well shouldn't we also expect from our defensive midfielder that he should track off the ball midfield runners? Arteta obviously doesn't have the experience or ability to play this role, having never done this in his life, so why is he playing there?


I see no point in over-analysing it.

It's clear we didn't play well. The boss admitted as much, and I'm sure the players know they didn't play well.

Yes, Arteta is to blame in this instance. Shock horror, player makes a mistake. Every football match in history is littered with mistakes made by individuals. Why do we have to have a witch hunt every time?

The guy has been excellent for us this season.

We were off. We didn't play well, and deservedly got beaten. Shit happens. Let's just move on.

[Power n Glory]

he is an aerial player in a team that doesn't have an aerial game, he also plays with his back to the goal while midfielders overlap him, which ours don't. The only surprising thing so far is that Wenger hasnt stuck him on the right wing to "improve his decision making"

Oh and i see Bendtner scored again for Sunderland...a header...

Fucking Wenger :ilt:


I don’t rate Chamakh but I agree that we could make better use of what he has to offer. When he does come on, we have to at least start whipping in crosses and it would also helped if he had a strike partner playing alongside him so they can create space for each other with dummy runs.

If we’re going to keep playing a 4-3-3, then you’re right about overlapping runs. Theo would work well with him, but we’d need a central player that also makes runs into the box from deep like Cesc used to. Ox would probably fit the bill. That kid isn’t afraid to shoot from outside the area. But I don’t see Wenger changing anything to accommodate him. He’s low on confidence and will probably be sold at the end of the season.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Overall, I am very disappoint.

We worked extremely hard to build ourselves a small cushion, and then piss that cushion up the wall.

Fuxaches.

[Grebbo]

Always thought we'd drop points in this game.

At least City will have to come at us next week which should hopefully help us.

Why the fuck is Wenger playing Ramsey again? We were way better when he was out injured.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I forgot, you're not allowed to criticise Wenger on this message-board, otherwise the pro-Wenger brigade will come down on you like a ton of bricks for "wrong" thinking :yawn:
Y
http://arseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/slip23.jpg

Anyway, the above frame shows how Arteta's to blame for the second goal. He completely fails to track Diakite's run, despite being the deepest lying midfielder (Song is ahead of him). For those who say he's playing as the DMF so we shouldn't expect creativity from him and he's doing a good job "ticking things over", well shouldn't we also expect from our defensive midfielder that he should track off the ball midfield runners? Arteta obviously doesn't have the experience or ability to play this role, having never done this in his life, so why is he playing there?

Joker mate. . .you are either the biggest WUM or the most unforgiving fan in the world. . .we could take every frame from every match and analyse it so that we can create a list of culprits to blame but we dont brcause we accept mistakes happen. . .there are a few who make more than others and desreve to suffer our ire but give the guy a bteak, we lost, Im not happy but Im going to move on.



Btw drop the pto Wenger brigade line, it anit as big as you think. . !

[Power n Glory]

Joker mate. . .you are either the biggest WUM or the most unforgiving fan in the world. . .we could take every frame from every match and analyse it so that we can create a list of culprits to blame but we dont brcause we accept mistakes happen. . .there are a few who make more than others and desreve to suffer our ire but give the guy a bteak, we lost, Im not happy but Im going to move on.



Btw drop the pto Wenger brigade line, it anit as big as you think. . !

To be fair, this links into a wider argument about his role on the field and what he brings to the squad. When people complain about his lack of goals and creativity, people have said he wasn’t bought to replace Cesc and that he’s a defensive midfielder. Well, I don’t think he’s a natural defensive midfielder and will get caught napping more than someone that is used to playing that role.

[LDG]

To be fair, this links into a wider argument about his role on the field and what he brings to the squad. When people complain about his lack of goals and creativity, people have said he wasn’t bought to replace Cesc and that he’s a defensive midfielder. Well, I don’t think he’s a natural defensive midfielder and will get caught napping more than someone that is used to playing that role.

He's not a defensive midfielder though. I don't think we have one.

They all tend to muck in and do the work.

He's a link player, but also does his fair share of graft. It's more of a unit than it was with Cesc playing. Everyone knew he would be the furthest foward, so you had Wilshire dropping in with Song. Now Cesc is gone, they all take it in turns, though I think Arteta is the one who keeps the ball moving through midfield. He just does the simple stuff, and in the most part, it's really helped us this year.

The problem (from that frame alone) was that niether of them were back.

AW keeps going on about the collective responsibility that we need in oder to defend, and that is what was lacking on Saturday. They all switch about, and if one goes forward, the other drops back in. We were caught too high up the pitch in the example shown, and paif for it, as nobody was tracking the runner.

[Master Splinter]

I see no point in over-analysing it.

It's clear we didn't play well. The boss admitted as much, and I'm sure the players know they didn't play well.

Yes, Arteta is to blame in this instance. Shock horror, player makes a mistake. Every football match in history is littered with mistakes made by individuals. Why do we have to have a witch hunt every time?

The guy has been excellent for us this season.

We were off. We didn't play well, and deservedly got beaten. Shit happens. Let's just move on.

You're wrong!

Now don't challenge my opinion, pro-Wenger brigadier. :angry:.

[GP]

You're wrong!

Now don't challenge my opinion, pro-Wenger brigadier. :angry:.

:gp:

:bow: MS/Joker/P'n'G/Josh/Fakeyank

[Power n Glory]

He's not a defensive midfielder though. I don't think we have one.

They all tend to muck in and do the work.

He's a link player, but also does his fair share of graft. It's more of a unit than it was with Cesc playing. Everyone knew he would be the furthest foward, so you had Wilshire dropping in with Song. Now Cesc is gone, they all take it in turns, though I think Arteta is the one who keeps the ball moving through midfield. He just does the simple stuff, and in the most part, it's really helped us this year.

The problem (from that frame alone) was that niether of them were back.

AW keeps going on about the collective responsibility that we need in oder to defend, and that is what was lacking on Saturday. They all switch about, and if one goes forward, the other drops back in. We were caught too high up the pitch in the example shown, and paif for it, as nobody was tracking the runner.

It appears that way. But I don't think Arteta is the one that keeps the ball moving. He doesn't make himself available for the pass that often and probably makes the least amount of runs forward out of the trio in the middle.

[Master Splinter]

:bow: MS/Joker/P'n'G/Josh/Fakeyank/Diaby-fan

:gp:

[LDG]

It appears that way. But I don't think Arteta is the one that keeps the ball moving. He doesn't make himself available for the pass that often and probably makes the least amount of runs forward out of the trio in the middle.

http://www.eplindex.com/12157/mikel-arteta-arsenals-pivotal-playmaker.html

:shrug:

[GP]

http://www.eplindex.com/12157/mikel-arteta-arsenals-pivotal-playmaker.html

:shrug:

People see what they want to see :good:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Joker mate. . .you are either the biggest WUM or the most unforgiving fan in the world. . .we could take every frame from every match and analyse it so that we can create a list of culprits to blame but we dont brcause we accept mistakes happen. . .there are a few who make more than others and desreve to suffer our ire but give the guy a bteak, we lost, Im not happy but Im going to move on.





Btw drop the pto Wenger brigade line, it anit as big as you think. . !

That being kind to Joker tbh.

[Power n Glory]

:gp:

:bow: MS/Joker/P'n'G/Josh/Fakeyank


You’re a funny guy.

I have no problem debating an issue with any poster on here. But on this occasion with Letter’s he came straight in to wum about people’s reaction on the GW and he’s been doing it for years. He acts as if it’s a one off result and starts attacking posters who are pissed off at losing. I still remember debates we’ve gotten into about certain results and Wenger’s team selection . He usually dismisses it as a one off result and as if people are overacting or ‘kneejerk’ as he puts.

But in most cases, as seen over the past few seasons, the one bad result often spirals out of control and we start dropping silly points. When that does happen and people talk about wanting a change, we get this ‘one more season’ talk and the cycle continues. Now we’re at it again. There really isn’t any point in dragging on the debate if we’re just going to keep going in circles and especially when it involves attacking other posters. Unfortunately, the guys a mod so I can’t put him on ignore.

You guys need to cut the clique rubbish out. It’s annoying, childish and gets in the way of a good debate.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You’re a funny guy.

I have no problem debating an issue with any poster on here. But on this occasion with Letter’s he came straight in to wum about people’s reaction on the GW and he’s been doing it for years. He acts as if it’s a one off result and starts attacking posters who are pissed off at losing. I still remember debates we’ve gotten into about certain results and Wenger’s team selection . He usually dismisses it as a one off result and as if people are overacting or ‘kneejerk’ as he puts.

But in most cases, as seen over the past few seasons, the one bad result often spirals out of control and we start dropping silly points. When that does happen and people talk about wanting a change, we get this ‘one more season’ talk and the cycle continues. Now we’re at it again. There really isn’t any point in dragging on the debate if we’re just going to keep going in circles and especially when it involves attacking other posters. Unfortunately, the guys a mod so I can’t put him on ignore.

You guys need to cut the clique rubbish out. It’s annoying, childish and gets in the way of a good debate.

Yes you do, you always seem to think your right and when you proved wrong like a kid you threathen people with the ignore button. like people give a shit.

[Power n Glory]

http://www.eplindex.com/12157/mikel-arteta-arsenals-pivotal-playmaker.html

:shrug:

It's funny that article mentions Denilson. He made a load of accurate passes for us and was pretty high up on such a list. Not saying Arteta is Denilson, but I think Song and Rosicky are more important to the way the ball flows in the middle. They're more mobile and usually play the smarter passes.

[Kano]

http://www.eplindex.com/12157/mikel-arteta-arsenals-pivotal-playmaker.html

:shrug:

modric does exactly the same job. in fact, he scores less and probably about the same with assists.

yet, he is a media darling worth £30 mill apparently.

[LDG]

It's funny that article mentions Denilson. He made a load of accurate passes for us and was pretty high up on such a list. Not saying Arteta is Denilson, but I think Song and Rosicky are more important to the way the ball flows in the middle. They're more mobile and usually play the smarter passes.

Ah but the difference is, that Arteta does the graft as well....although, given that he fucked up on Saturday, it's a bit difficult to defend his corner! :lol:

However, they are right. He is what we hoped Denilson would be.

I agree Song and Rosicky are more incisive, but I guess what I'm getting at, is that they need to be given the ball.

We're probably not going to agree, but I see Arteta as the one who seems to mop up the ball, and distribute it simply, to Song, out wide to fullbacks or the wingers. They're not hollywood balls, but to play the passing game we play, you need someone doing that job.

Denilson was ousted because he was lazy, and I think Arteta is anything but. He's exactly what Wenger means by efficiency. And he's steadied the ship for me this season....

[fakeyank]

Yes you do, you always seem to think your right and when you proved wrong like a kid you threathen people with the ignore button. like people give a shit.

Tbh, PnG n LDG are the best posters on here.. so they can ignore whoever they like!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Tbh, PnG n LDG are the best posters on here.. so they can ignore whoever they like!

Did i say they could not ignore who ever? Its up to them end of the day people can debate with who they want to. My point was you don't have to behave like a kid when you don't get your own way.

Not sure why you bought LDG into this as i never mentiond him.

[Master Splinter]

modric does exactly the same job. in fact, he scores less and probably about the same with assists.

yet, he is a media darling worth £30 mill apparently.

:gp:

Vermaelen is a more efficient attacking threat than Modric.

[Power n Glory]

Ah but the difference is, that Arteta does the graft as well....although, given that he fucked up on Saturday, it's a bit difficult to defend his corner! :lol:

However, they are right. He is what we hoped Denilson would be.

I agree Song and Rosicky are more incisive, but I guess what I'm getting at, is that they need to be given the ball.

We're probably not going to agree, but I see Arteta as the one who seems to mop up the ball, and distribute it simply, to Song, out wide to fullbacks or the wingers. They're not hollywood balls, but to play the passing game we play, you need someone doing that job.

Denilson was ousted because he was lazy, and I think Arteta is anything but. He's exactly what Wenger means by efficiency. And he's steadied the ship for me this season....

Yeah, Denilson was really lazy on defence and the sort of mistake Arteta made over the weekend would happen constantly with Denilson. But if Wenger does decide to buy another CM/DCM, he’s the one that’s going to lose his place.

I’ve always been impressed with the way Song played that role before he started pushing forward. Smart distribution and solid at the back. I guess I’m comparing him to the way Song used to play and think we’ve struggled in the middle this season. It’s only recently just started to come together with the inclusion of Rosicky.

[LDG]

Yeah, Denilson was really lazy on defence and the sort of mistake Arteta made over the weekend would happen constantly with Denilson. But if Wenger does decide to buy another CM/DCM, he’s the one that’s going to lose his place.

I’ve always been impressed with the way Song played that role before he started pushing forward. Smart distribution and solid at the back. I guess I’m comparing him to the way Song used to play and think we’ve struggled in the middle this season. It’s only recently just started to come together with the inclusion of Rosicky.

I agree to an extent. But you do need a few options, so I'm guessing if we do opt for a new player + Wilshere, then all of them would play less games. Especially if we're in four competitions....injuries etc etc.

I'm wondering whether he was more of a replacement for Wilshere then anything....maybe that's why we bought him, in the knowledge that Jack would be unavailable for some time.

In any case, I don't think he's a bad player at all, and it's been nice to have someone dependable in there this year....

[Power n Glory]

I agree to an extent. But you do need a few options, so I'm guessing if we do opt for a new player + Wilshere, then all of them would play less games. Especially if we're in four competitions....injuries etc etc.

I'm wondering whether he was more of a replacement for Wilshere then anything....maybe that's why we bought him, in the knowledge that Jack would be unavailable for some time.

In any case, I don't think he's a bad player at all, and it's been nice to have someone dependable in there this year....

True, he hasn’t been bad on defence, puts a shift in but I’m disappointed with his attack if I’m honest. Well, it’s not just him, it’s the way we attack from the middle in general. Song has a load of assists, but we really need someone playing at the top of the diamond in the final third linking up play between the front three. Rosicky has done a great job at it and I love the way he’s able to turn on the ball so quickly and then ping off a pass. But I doubt he has the legs to play this role for us every game because of his age and past injuries. Plus, I think someone playing that role should be getting more goals and assists. I think the Ox would be great there and can’t wait to see him play in the middle with Wilshere and Song. But all three will have to work their socks off like Barca to press the ball when not in possession. The whole team in fact.

[fakeyank]

Did i say they could not ignore who ever? Its up to them end of the day people can debate with who they want to. My point was you don't have to behave like a kid when you don't get your own way.

Not sure why you bought LDG into this as i never mentiond him.

Nah just saying LDG is a good poster as well.. not bringing him into anything. This is not a brawl :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

You’re a funny guy.

I have no problem debating an issue with any poster on here. But on this occasion with Letter’s he came straight in to wum about people’s reaction on the GW and he’s been doing it for years. He acts as if it’s a one off result and starts attacking posters who are pissed off at losing. I still remember debates we’ve gotten into about certain results and Wenger’s team selection . He usually dismisses it as a one off result and as if people are overacting or ‘kneejerk’ as he puts.

But in most cases, as seen over the past few seasons, the one bad result often spirals out of control and we start dropping silly points. When that does happen and people talk about wanting a change, we get this ‘one more season’ talk and the cycle continues. Now we’re at it again. There really isn’t any point in dragging on the debate if we’re just going to keep going in circles and especially when it involves attacking other posters. Unfortunately, the guys a mod so I can’t put him on ignore.

You guys need to cut the clique rubbish out. It’s annoying, childish and gets in the way of a good debate.

So does your face.

[Letters]

People see what they want to see :good:

Not your face then.



BAM!

:cool:

[GP]

Disgusting the way my face is treated around here.

[Letters]

Disgusting the way my face is

:gp:

[Letters]

I have no problem debating an issue with any poster on here. But on this occasion with Letter’s he came straight in to wum about people’s reaction on the GW

I wasn't wumming. I thought the reaction to a loss after 7 straight wins way over the top from some people. I'm perfectly entitled to say so and I wasn't the only one to say it. We're not going to win every single game, it's ridiculous to think we are and all teams get bad results sometimes.


But in most cases, as seen over the past few seasons, the one bad result often spirals out of control and we start dropping silly points

Well, maybe. And if so then I'll be on here moaning too. The last few weeks have given me some hope that we're heading in the right direction as a team. If we collapse again then I'll be depressed about that because it will show it's been another false dawn but not after 1 result.

I can't believe you accused others of being childish when you in effect said to me "I'm ignoring you from now on, nur nur, nur nur nur." like some stroppy teenage girl. :rolleyes:

[Power n Glory]

I wasn't wumming. I thought the reaction to a loss after 7 straight wins way over the top from some people. I'm perfectly entitled to say so and I wasn't the only one to say it. We're not going to win every single game, it's ridiculous to think we are and all teams get bad results sometimes.



Well, maybe. And if so then I'll be on here moaning too. The last few weeks have given me some hope that we're heading in the right direction as a team. If we collapse again then I'll be depressed about that because it will show it's been another false dawn but not after 1 result.

I can't believe you accused others of being childish when you in effect said to me "I'm ignoring you from now on, nur nur, nur nur nur." like some stroppy teenage girl. :rolleyes:

Mate, check your post.




</discussion>

If you're going to just declare yourself right then we have nothing to talk about

That's lazy, mate. That's when I thought we might as well drop it and there is no need to discuss anything with you if that's your attitude. So you can stop with the rolling eyes and snide digs. It's a wind up and I have no problem telling you where you can go with that sort of that sort of BS.

[Letters]

Well no, it's lazy to just say the other person is wrong. That isn't debate.
I'm not saying I never post windups but I haven't in this thread, I've just said what I think.

[Dennis Bendtner]

If we signed this M'Vila guy (who is supposedly skilled enough to play a defensive role and contribute going forward) I doubt anyone would quibble with Arteta dropping out. But, end of the day, 99% of teams would miss Wilshere.

[Power n Glory]

Well no, it's lazy to just say the other person is wrong. That isn't debate.
I'm not saying I never post windups but I haven't in this thread, I've just said what I think.


7 wins in a row doesn't fix what people have seen over the last 6/7 years and the worrying trend we often see. You've been wrong for a long time about the squad and you always come up with this sort of reaction. It's pretty typical and there is probably no point in calling you out on it anymore because you're not getting it.

That's my quote and it's about your attitude. You often come in a say people's reactions are 'knee jerk' and I remember similar situations where this type of loss knocks our confidence and we end up going on a bad run. I remember having a similar debate with you where you shrugged off a similar result but when we all looked back over the course of the season, it was that particular result that sent our season into a downward spiral. I think it was a few seasons ago where we beat Chelsea and then dropped points against Wigan because Wenger made 9 changes to the first team or something like that.

That's why I'm saying you've been wrong on many occasions about the consequences of results and you shouldn't be so quick to poke fun at people's reactions. We're not the sort of team that bounces back from defeat so easily, it's been proven over the past few years but you act as if certain posters have no legitimate reason to react in such a way. I would have thought after all these years of watching us play, you'd have started to see other posters point of view.

What was your reaction when Gallas had his sulk on the pitch when we drew to Birmingham? Did you brush it off like you're doing now and poke fun at posters who were pissed off? Say it was 'knee jerk' along with the usual 'doom and gloom' merchant comments? I can't remember that far back, just guessing, but if you reacted in the same way you are now, wouldn't that make your initial reaction and judgement wrong? You do it a lot after match threads. Nothing wrong with being optimistic but you take it to the point where you start to ridicule other posters when you're in no position to.

[Boss]

PnG :bow: :bow:

Dominating these hoes.

[Letters]

That's my quote and it's about your attitude. You often come in a say people's reactions are 'knee jerk'.

Some of the reactions to a defeat after 7 straight wins are kneejerk IMO and way over the top.

I agree it might be the start of a bad run but we'll see and if so then I'll join in with the sulkathon on here as loud as anyone but we're just not going to win every single game. We slipped up. All teams slip up. Some of the comments on this thread are huge over-reactions. If the result had come as part of a generally bad run then fair enough but after the run we'd had they were ridiculous, IMO.

I just don't understand why people's reactions and opinions on here have to be so extreme. Yes, football is an emotional game but some sense of perspective is needed.

[Power n Glory]

It's only one or two posters and it's not that extreme considering the season/seasons we've had. Plus, is it really neccessary to try and wind them up and get other posters in on the act as well?

[Letters]

I wasn't trying to wind anyone up. I thought the reactions were over the top and I said so :shrug:
I've enjoyed this season. Not all of it, there have been some rubbish times but some very good ones too. It's the bad times which make you appreciate the good. The recent run has given me hope for the future and one slip up isn't going to dampen that. Another slump and I'll probably be a bit depressed by it all again. At times this year I've wondered why I waste my time and money going to games, at other times I've remembered exactly why I go to games - The AC Milan game, the Newcastle one. There are a few signs that the players care more and the club is heading in the right direction. We'll see.

[Globalgunner]

That is exactly the point LETTERS, You say youve enjoyed this season. Thats your perogative. Some would say that it is just a continuum of the mediocrity which represents our self imposed glass ceiling now. No one except you calls other peoples reactions "kneejerk" and throwing toys out of the pram. It is uneccessary baiting and reduces the level of discussion to name calling. We are a club that no longer wins things and seem not to care either. Some people simply wish it wasnt so.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Nah just saying LDG is a good poster as well.. not bringing him into anything. This is not a brawl :lol:

cool lol.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

We are a club that no longer wins things and seem not to care either. Some people simply wish it wasnt so.

^this

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Forget arry, look at SAF.. utd don't spend anywhere close to Chelsea n city yet look at where they are n where we are! One person is concerned about things on the football pitch while the other is busy getting low with the board and being their mouthpiece.

Yeah but the mancs have the exprience they always will its the way they are run and are the best club in the EPL History.

Comparing them to us is silly they have always been better then us and always will be. Fergie will always be better then Wenger.

The way the mancs are run its to try and win a trophy every season. Where as us even before AW were never run like that and we still are not. We never done back to back titles etc. Until we get someone on the board who is ambtious not much will change.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That is exactly the point LETTERS, You say youve enjoyed this season. Thats your perogative. Some would say that it is just a continuum of the mediocrity which represents our self imposed glass ceiling now. No one except you calls other peoples reactions "kneejerk" and throwing toys out of the pram. It is uneccessary baiting and reduces the level of discussion to name calling. We are a club that no longer wins things and seem not to care either. Some people simply wish it wasnt so.

Yep because the players saying they want to win things show they don't care.

[Power n Glory]

That is exactly the point LETTERS, You say youve enjoyed this season. Thats your perogative. Some would say that it is just a continuum of the mediocrity which represents our self imposed glass ceiling now. No one except you calls other peoples reactions "kneejerk" and throwing toys out of the pram. It is uneccessary baiting and reduces the level of discussion to name calling. We are a club that no longer wins things and seem not to care either. Some people simply wish it wasnt so.

Yep. Nothing wrong with having a different perspective on the season. Some are more hopeful and optimistic and that’s cool. We don’t all have to agree, but the snide comments and shots are uncalled for. It gets silly and you get a group of posters constantly taking the piss and singling out specific posters. It’s not necessary.

[Power n Glory]

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/04/02/qpr-v-arsenal-diagrams-and-chalkboards/

Interesting piece. Worth a read. Mark Hughes stops Wenger again. Used similar tactics when he was at Man City.

[fakeyank]

Yeah but the mancs have the exprience they always will its the way they are run and are the best club in the EPL History.

Comparing them to us is silly they have always been better then us and always will be. Fergie will always be better then Wenger.

The way the mancs are run its to try and win a trophy every season. Where as us even before AW were never run like that and we still are not. We never done back to back titles etc. Until we get someone on the board who is ambtious not much will change.

The thing about SAF being better than AW is right however up until 2006-07, they were on par. I cant remember any other manager than AW who has genuinely got under the skin of SAF. And this is precisely what troubles me.. how on earth did AW turn from a manager who had ambitions (and succeeded) of going the entire season unbeaten to a manager who parades 4th place as a trophy!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The thing about SAF being better than AW is right however up until 2006-07, they were on par. I cant remember any other manager than AW who has genuinely got under the skin of SAF. And this is precisely what troubles me.. how on earth did AW turn from a manager who had ambitions (and succeeded) of going the entire season unbeaten to a manager who parades 4th place as a trophy!

:goodpost: I agree i have not seen that Wenger with passion and fight only the man who wanted us to feel sorry for him. I don't believe he does not want to win things, but i think he needs to get more motivated about winning again which i question about him.

[fakeyank]

:goodpost: I agree i have not seen that Wenger with passion and fight only the man who wanted us to feel sorry for him. I don't believe he does not want to win things, but i think he needs to get more motivated about winning again which i question about him.

And that is precisely why he needs to go. I know he wont be fired but I am hoping that it comes from within to quit the club for someone else to takeover.

[LDG]

And that is precisely why he needs to go. I know he wont be fired but I am hoping that it comes from within to quit the club for someone else to takeover.

It's not anything to do with motivation or desire from his part. It is from the players though. SAF motivates and drills his players tactically. AW leaves it to the players, because he believes they should be motivating themselves, and plotting the play themselves...which I do admire to an extent, but it does mean he's not plugging that extra few holes he could easily plug.

The difference between then and now, is that the teams below us (and still below us) were easier to beat.

The league is far more competetive, with teams using the same modern techniques and scouting that AW benefitted from. It's harder to be consistent.

The main difference is in the attitude on the pitch. It's not the quality of the players per say (I believe we have had better teams than Utd in the last few years), it's the motivation of the players that he has gotten wrong...mainly by putting too much faith in youth, and not enough in experience.

This is why I believe this year is a better foundation to build on than the last few years. We have some experience, and a real captain now.

[Letters]

Comparing them to us is silly they have always been better then us.

...no they haven't.

[Injury Time]

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/04/02/qpr-v-arsenal-diagrams-and-chalkboards/

Interesting piece. Worth a read. Mark Hughes stops Wenger again. Used similar tactics when he was at Man City.
And Boreburn too<_< back to no plan B?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

...no they haven't.

OK been more succesful then us.

[Letters]

There were a few years there where we were better and more successful. Early noughties.
The rest of the time in the PL era though, yeah.

(I presume we're only talking about the PL era, they weren't even in the top division in the 70s for a while!)

[Japan Shaking All Over]

The thing about SAF being better than AW is right however up until 2006-07, they were on par. I cant remember any other manager than AW who has genuinely got under the skin of SAF. And this is precisely what troubles me.. how on earth did AW turn from a manager who had ambitions (and succeeded) of going the entire season unbeaten to a manager who parades 4th place as a trophy!

I believe it is no coincidence that our falling away happened almost at the same time SAF stopped goading AW, I not saying he was rhe reaso just maybe he saw something sooner than AW did. . . ?

[Marc Overmars]

Fergie is just a better manager, not much else to it. Everyone thought Chelsea would dominate indefinitely after 2006, but he toppled them with apparently his worst side and has dominated ever since.

[fakeyank]

It's not anything to do with motivation or desire from his part. It is from the players though. SAF motivates and drills his players tactically. AW leaves it to the players, because he believes they should be motivating themselves, and plotting the play themselves...which I do admire to an extent, but it does mean he's not plugging that extra few holes he could easily plug.

The difference between then and now, is that the teams below us (and still below us) were easier to beat.

The league is far more competetive, with teams using the same modern techniques and scouting that AW benefitted from. It's harder to be consistent.

The main difference is in the attitude on the pitch. It's not the quality of the players per say (I believe we have had better teams than Utd in the last few years), it's the motivation of the players that he has gotten wrong...mainly by putting too much faith in youth, and not enough in experience.

This is why I believe this year is a better foundation to build on than the last few years. We have some experience, and a real captain now.

I agree on the part that teams below us are much better than they were before.

As for the part in bold, how can a manager just lie down and look at attitude that is so defeatist in nature for the last 5-6 seasons running?? AW might go on and on about attitude and mental toughness in the group but we really are shambles in that area. If thats a weakness, a manager getting 6 million quid a year should have tackled it much earlier. Ditto for our defensive frailties. AW, IMO, has got a lot of chances... he seems clueless now to rise up and challenge with the 'big boys'.

As for better foundation, every season, at this time, dont we say the same thing? You have been on GW for a long time and you know that this is something that is said every year. In fact, I remember when I was talking to you, Letters n GB in 09/10, we felt we had the foundation for a great team. Problem is we keep losing key players every season. We do have a real captain but again, he seems likely to leave us just like how Cesc, Nasri, Hleb, Flamini, Henry, Kolo, Clichy etc have left us in the last few years. It's a vicious cycle which needs to be stopped and I just do not have faith in AW to stop the rot. 6 years of not taking care of things gives me no hope something different will happen next season.

[Letters]

We do seem a bit stronger mentally right now and we have got a decent captain (which is different from the last few years). If we stays (I think he will) and we sign some decent players in the summer (sceptical, but there are some more hopeful noises about getting business done early this time) then we might have more of a basis for improvement.
Wenger has never been a great tactician or a great motivator. Our best sides under him have always had a strong captain and other strong characters, I do see a bit more hope that we have that again right now but we'll see.

[Coney]

We do seem a bit stronger mentally right now and we have got a decent captain (which is different from the last few years). If we stays (I think he will) and we sign some decent players in the summer (sceptical, but there are some more hopeful noises about getting business done early this time) then we might have more of a basis for improvement.
Wenger has never been a great tactician or a great motivator. Our best sides under him have always had a strong captain and other strong characters, I do see a bit more hope that we have that again right now but we'll see.

Yeah - and I think the presence of Arteta, Vermaelen and the like under RvP is the reason for our (relative) improvement this year. Some more of that and we will be serious challengers for the league.

[Mr. Lahey]

just read theo's comments regarding this match. i still cant see the mental strength in this team and i feel that theo's comments illustrate that this team still has not learned. underestimated QPR? at this time of the year? this should not be happening and it should be a worry especially if there is a lack of transfer activity or if our manager is still here next year.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

We do seem a bit stronger mentally right now and we have got a decent captain (which is different from the last few years). If we stays (I think he will) and we sign some decent players in the summer (sceptical, but there are some more hopeful noises about getting business done early this time) then we might have more of a basis for improvement.
Wenger has never been a great tactician or a great motivator. Our best sides under him have always had a strong captain and other strong characters, I do see a bit more hope that we have that again right now but we'll see.

TBH Letters, a lot of your post lays considerable weight to the Wenger out argument!

1) hes not a great tactician or motivator
2) our best teams have always been made up of a strong captain and characters, and that we have the first signs of that for a long time
3) there are signs we are looking to add much needed quality sooner rather than later next time round

Just think what we could do if we did have a tactically astute manager who could motivate! ?

[Letters]

Just think what we could do if we did have a tactically astute manager who could motivate! ?

There are loads of managers like that out there, most of them manage teams who finish below us every season.
Wenger has his weaknesses but he clearly has strengths too in terms of talent spotting and developing players.
To keep us top 4 every year without spending big is not something which should be over-looked.

[Letters]

just read theo's comments regarding this match. i still cant see the mental strength in this team
You don't think coming back from going behind in 4 PL games in a row (as opposed to falling apart) shows a certain resilience that hasn't been there in past seasons?

[Power n Glory]

Last season we had the record for scoring more goals around the 90th minute mark than any other team. Some seasons before that we had an unbeaten run that was also lauded as a sign of strength and maturity. Until we actually win something and show consistency, it means nothing because we always have a point in the season where people think we've turned a corner.

[Letters]

Last season we had the record for scoring more goals around the 90th minute mark than any other team. Some seasons before that we had an unbeaten run that was also lauded as a sign of strength and maturity. Until we actually win something and show consistency, it means nothing because we always have a point in the season where people think we've turned a corner.

I think that's fair comment. We'll see. From the early season malaise they seem to be heading in the right direction. It may well be another false dawn though. We'll see.

[Cripps_orig]

How many false dawns have we had since 2005 btw?

Is it one a season or have there been 2 in some seasons like this one? Alwful start to the season, won a few games in October (False dawn 1), turned to shit around december/january time and then won 7 in a row in March (False Dawn 2) before turning shit again.

How many does it take for people to be convinced that this is what will happen season in and out with Wenger in charge?

[Marc Overmars]

How many false dawns have we had since 2005 btw?

Is it one a season or have there been 2 in some seasons like this one? Alwful start to the season, won a few games in October (False dawn 1), turned to shit around december/january time and then won 7 in a row in March (False Dawn 2) before turning shit again.

How many does it take for people to be convinced that this is what will happen season in and out with Wenger in charge?

Yeah but the signs are good this time...

[Kano]

coming back in games is one thing but leading from the front and staying there is what makes a champion. its a completely different thing to fight back yourself rather instead of stopping others from fighting back. when you have something to chase you have an immediate target to aim for, when you lead from the front you have to fight the urge to keep looking over your shoulder and worrying too much.

[Cripps_orig]

Yeah but the signs are good this time...And they will be next time as well.

We should go for the record and have 3 false dawns next season

[Master Splinter]

We should go for the record and have 3 false dawns next season

Still possible this season tbf.

It's on.

[fakeyank]

Still possible this season tbf.

It's on.

Can we have a breaking dawn as well? Get into some twilight shit!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

There were a few years there where we were better and more successful. Early noughties.
The rest of the time in the PL era though, yeah.

(I presume we're only talking about the PL era, they weren't even in the top division in the 70s for a while!)

Yeah i was talking about the PL era. The way i see it the mancs will win the league this season even with a less vintage sqaud like theirs. It shows that they know how to win which is vital we don't.

You would have thought after the CL final defeat last season the mancs would have tried to assemble a sqaud not only to win the league but win the CL as well, they never and paid the price.

Some will say the mancs will win the league because city bottled it others will say its an achivement because how hard the league has got.

But that experince Fergie has is vital and has helped them again. If AW was less stubbon an learned from fergie he'd be better off for it.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

TBH Letters, a lot of your post lays considerable weight to the Wenger out argument!

1) hes not a great tactician or motivator
2) our best teams have always been made up of a strong captain and characters, and that we have the first signs of that for a long time
3) there are signs we are looking to add much needed quality sooner rather than later next time round

Just think what we could do if we did have a tactically astute manager who could motivate! ?

This, our sqauds have been good enough to win a trophy in the last 6 years thats the frustating thing. Even it it was the cc we had the players to do it it was the mentality that messed us up. for me it comes from the manager if he is not mentally strong the players won't be.

Like Letters said he has never been a great motivator and that has helped in us not winning a thing. For me this is the biggest problem i have with the guy. Its not about winning tropies that have pissed me off its the fact i don't think we have been given the best chance too.

Right now ill back the team and hope things change for the better in the summer, but i don't think ill be overly enjoyed till i see what we do in the summer.

[AKBapologist]

Looks at Shitty, sees (5! of...) our mostly trophy less flops working under another manager. Dissagrees with the notion that any old manager would have won something with the players we had. Should we have had better players? Absolutely! But Jesus put down the blinkers for a moment will ya.