The Film Thread

[Letters]

It's a kids film. None of the others are.

[Master Splinter]

It's a kids film. None of the others are.

Have you seen a Star Wars film?

The original trilogy was amateur at best in terms of the acting and dialogue.

While the possibility exists that the prequel trilogy may have been an excellent, long, drawn-out parody by Lucas, they're still nothing short of juvenile in so many aspects.

Now, this doesn't necessarily lessen the enjoyment you get from them, but whether by design or circumstance, the Star Wars films are very much kids films in a number of ways.

[Marc Overmars]

Baywatch.

Incredibly shit but The Rock is funny and there is plenty of eye candy.

[GP]

Assassin's Creed.

Almost as boring as the games.

[Coney]

Have you seen a Star Wars film?

The original trilogy was amateur at best in terms of the acting and dialogue.

While the possibility exists that the prequel trilogy may have been an excellent, long, drawn-out parody by Lucas, they're still nothing short of juvenile in so many aspects.

Now, this doesn't necessarily lessen the enjoyment you get from them, but whether by design or circumstance, the Star Wars films are very much kids films in a number of ways.

:good:

I remember going to watch the first Star Wars film when it first came out - big fanfare because of the advanced effects (for that time) - and being very disappointed with the script and plot because there is some really good SF literature out there and they chose something that made kids comics look grown-up.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I was thinking the same when I watched Spaceballs the other night.

[Globalgunner]

Went to watch Transformers: Last Knight. A lamentably bad film. Micheal bay needs to commit ritual suicide. No plot, no story, no characters a mish mash sci-fi jumble than went on painfully too long. Awful

[GP]

I was going to watch one of them on Netflix last weekend. The Mark Wahlberg one? With the robot Dinosaurs?

Anyway, the running time was pushing 3 hours. For a transformers movie. Fuck that. What are they thinking??

Michael Bay hasn't made a good movie since Bad Boys.

[Marc Overmars]

I'm surprised the franchise is still going strong and there are even more movies to come.

They are all dreadful.

[Letters]

Lego Batman

:lol: Saw it on the plane on a recent work trip. Very good.

[GP]

Big fan of these Lego movies, me.

Great cast, well written. Very funny.

Perfect score, 5/7

[Letters]

Oh yeah. Stupid brain. Been trying to remember the film I watched on the way back from the work trip...

"The Founder"

I thought it was good. No Lego Batman, obviously, but enjoyable enough.

[GP]

I watched Elysium at the weekend. Not fantastic but enjoyable. It's a shame that Blomkamp's Alien movie was cancelled.

[Thierrymon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2z857RSfhk

Looking forward to this one. Edgar Wright has done some great movies.

[GP]

Edgar Wright doesn't have a bad movie to his name. Great director.

[Letters]

Barry Norman :rose:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40468411

[Letters]

Barry Norman :rose:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40468411

[Marc Overmars]

Wonder Woman.

A much better offering from DC at last.

Gal Gadot is quite attractive.

[GP]

Okja.

I think I'm a vegetarian now.

[Niall_Quinn]

Alien Covenant.

Shite from start to finish. Missing everything that made the first two films classics. The aliens aren't even mildly scary in this. The crew are utter dumbarses from the get go. Imagine landing on an alien world and sauntering about the place without any precautions. It's dumb, stupid, lazy scriptwriting.

Whole thing is a money making abuse of the franchise. No thought, no effort, no respect for the original films.

Hateful couple of wasted hours.

[Jofnn]

:wacko:

[Letters]

Oh. Seems OK now. :unsure:

[Letters]

Oh! No it isn't :lol:

The link to page 353 still goes to page 352 :unsure:

[Jofnn]

Clear your cache etc. to see if it's that... the links are taking me to the right pages now

[Letters]

Is this link working for you?

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14&page=353

Still takes me to page 352. Did try a Shift+Refresh, haven't tried a complete cache clear yet.

[Jofnn]

104

[Niall_Quinn]

Behind the scenes to and fro from the power brokers at GW. Stuff we're not supposed to see.

(Saved btw, just in case it all mysteriously vanishes)

[Globalgunner]

Alien Covenant.

Shite from start to finish. Missing everything that made the first two films classics. The aliens aren't even mildly scary in this. The crew are utter dumbarses from the get go. Imagine landing on an alien world and sauntering about the place without any precautions. It's dumb, stupid, lazy scriptwriting.

Whole thing is a money making abuse of the franchise. No thought, no effort, no respect for the original films.

Hateful couple of wasted hours.

Agreed. Even sci-fi has to have reason. Which stupid captain would make such a shit decision to detour in the first place. You have to watch the Transformers film, fearsomely stupid, awfully long. Even the Wonder Woman film. Mars.......Really!!!

[Niall_Quinn]

Agreed. Even sci-fi has to have reason. Which stupid captain would make such a shit decision to detour in the first place. You have to watch the Transformers film, fearsomely stupid, awfully long. Even the Wonder Woman film. Mars.......Really!!!

Walter - "We've made a few improvements since your time [smirk]"
David - "Fuck you! I have a knife! And I just guessed all your security codes, sucker!"

[GP]

George A Romero has died.

[Niall_Quinn]

George A Romero has died.

Not surprised.

A female Dr Who :doh:

[GP]

I hear they're letting women be actual doctors now.

What's next, women driving?

[Niall_Quinn]

I hear they're letting women be actual doctors now.

What's next, women driving?

I heard there were women doctors who drive, long before this PC bullshit came along. Wonder how that was even possible? Not a single pussy whipped, virtue signalling male in sight, but the bitches still managed to grab a stethoscope and get behind the wheel. Must have been magic, or angels.

[Letters]

I hear they're letting women be actual doctors now.

What's next, women driving?

This is nothing to do with equality, it's pandering to a particularly stupid kind of political correctness.
You want strong female characters? Great, go and invent some and make series about them, don't change the genders of existing characters.
Make a spin-off series about a female timelord, that gives you scope for cross-over episodes and all kinds of interesting things.

[Power n Glory]

Technically, it's not wrong because of the whole Time Lord regeneration/reincarnation concept.

[Niall_Quinn]

Technically, it's not wrong because of the whole Time Lord regeneration/reincarnation concept.

Technically it's statistically close to impossible. 12 doctors, all male. Almost a mathematical certainty the 13th will be male too. Chances of being female, vanishingly small. Therefore -> ridiculously unrealistic character development. Sack the writer and give him testosterone injections.

[Letters]

Technically, it's not wrong because of the whole Time Lord regeneration/reincarnation concept.

Except a timelord changing gender during a regeneration has never been a concept in the Dr Who world. The character's gender has never been ambiguous.
The concept that timelords can change gender when they regenerate is an interesting one and had the Doctor been played by a mix of genders over the last 50 years then there would be no controversy. But that isn't so. It's not the fact they've done this which rankles so much as the reason why. It's not been done as part of character development, just purely for the sake of a form of political correctness which I don't think helps anyone.

[Power n Glory]

Technically it's statistically close to impossible. 12 doctors, all male. Almost a mathematical certainty the 13th will be male too. Chances of being female, vanishingly small. Therefore -> ridiculously unrealistic character development. Sack the writer and give him testosterone injections.

Not a Dr. Who fan but this is interesting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regeneration_(Doctor_Who)#Extent_of_physical_chang e


Extent of physical change

The Doctor has always regenerated into a humanoid form. However, when explaining the process of regeneration to Rose at the end of "The Parting of the Ways", the Ninth Doctor suggests that his new form could have "two heads", or even "no head", and in the 2005 Children in Need special, which takes place immediately after that episode, the newly regenerated Tenth Doctor, while examining his new body, makes a point of checking that he has two arms, two legs and two hands, implying that regenerations can sometimes result in physically deformed or non-humanoid forms; it is not clear whether or not these two moments are intended as jokes.

Whether Time Lords could change sex in regeneration was not explicitly addressed onscreen for much of the show's run. In the second part of The End of Time (2010), the Eleventh Doctor briefly checks for an Adam's apple upon regeneration to confirm if he is still a man. In "The Doctor's Wife" (2011), he reminisces about an old friend and fellow Time Lord, the Corsair, who had been both a man and a woman several times. In "The Night of the Doctor" (2013), the Sisterhood of Karn specify the Doctor could choose to change sex using one of their elixirs which influence the outcome of regeneration. "Dark Water/Death in Heaven" (2014) shows that the Doctor's longtime nemesis the the Master has become a woman, taking the name Missy. In "Hell Bent" (2015), the Time Lord General regenerates into a younger woman, and states that her previous incarnation was her only male form. In "World Enough and Time" (2017), the Doctor tells his companion, in reference to Missy, that Time Lords are mostly beyond gender norms and stereotypes. From "The Doctors" onwards, Jodie Whittaker will portray the Thirteenth Doctor, making hers the Doctor's first female incarnation. She will be the third woman to play an incarnation of the Doctor. The first was Joanna Lumley, in the 1999 Comic Relief spoof The Curse of Fatal Death, and the second was Arabella Weir in the Doctor Who Unbound Big Finish episode Exile.[32].

In spin-off media, however, more drastic changes have been depicted. For example, in the Big Finish Productions audio Circular Time, a Time Lord known as Cardinal Zero regenerates into an avian life-form after being poisoned.[33]

Again, if they've got this concept of regeneration playing out, they're free to do whatever they like. It's sci fi.

Are you a hardcore fan of the series or jumping on to the argument because of the politics behind the switch?

[Power n Glory]

Except a timelord changing gender during a regeneration has never been a concept in the Dr Who world. The character's gender has never been ambiguous.
The concept that timelords can change gender when they regenerate is an interesting one and had the Doctor been played by a mix of genders over the last 50 years then there would be no controversy. But that isn't so. It's not the fact they've done this which rankles so much as the reason why. It's not been done as part of character development, just purely for the sake of a form of political correctness which I don't think helps anyone.


See above.

[Letters]

Are you a hardcore fan of the series or jumping on to the argument because of the politics behind the switch?
The latter, for me.
It's notable that all the examples in the article you quoted are quite recently, for most of its history there has been no ambiguity that the Doctor is anything but a white male.
It will actually probably a better show with the new Doctor, I never liked Capaldi in the role. As I said it's the reason they've done it which I find irritating.

[Power n Glory]

The latter, for me.
It's notable that all the examples in the article you quoted are quite recently, for most of its history there has been no ambiguity that the Doctor is anything but a white male.
It will actually probably a better show with the new Doctor, I never liked Capaldi in the role. As I said it's the reason they've done it which I find irritating.

When the show first started it was an older white male. I’m guessing when they decided to go with a younger character compared with what was previously seen, that was a radical shift. But I’m guessing they wanted a change to help breathe new life into the show. I’m guessing it’s the same idea behind this decision and chosen at time when this is the trending topic. I raised an eyebrow when catching the headlines but looking deeper into, this is probably the one show where this actually makes sense.

Why be so pissed about it anyway? If the BBC decided to this with Robin Hood, Merlin or Sherlock, then I’d say it makes no sense at all. Just write something original.

[GP]

How would you feel if a black actor was chosen to play James Bond?

[Power n Glory]

How would you feel if a black actor was chosen to play James Bond?


It’s not believable. A Black man travelling around the world in that Aston Martin without getting stopped or shot by the police? Nobody looking at him like he’s out of place when walking into certain venues and he’s supposed to be an indiscreet spy?

Nah…I wouldn’t believe it. As much as I think someone like Idris Elba could play that sort of role, I just can’t see him moving around like Bond without someone reacting to his race. Bond was written as a White male. It should stay that way. Just create something unique as they did with Blade, Black Panther, Luther….that way we don’t have to pretend the world is colour blind.

[Niall_Quinn]

Not a Dr. Who fan but this is interesting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regeneration_(Doctor_Who)#Extent_of_physical_chang e



Again, if they've got this concept of regeneration playing out, they're free to do whatever they like. It's sci fi.

Are you a hardcore fan of the series or jumping on to the argument because of the politics behind the switch?

I was kind of joking. I couldn't give a shite who plays the doctor because I don't watch it.

But I do keep a close eye on lesbians, what I mean to say is I keep a close eye on the political activities of the PC crowd, particularly the dumb feminists (because they are always the first to be led by the nose) and the gay, lezzer, bi, whatsit lobby (who have been pushing an agenda to redefine gender, family and are enjoying massive overrepresentation in the mainstream, media, celeb sewerscommunities). These freakoids will be celebrating today as another male icon gets knocked down. They'll be revelling in the division caused, because they believe fervently in inclusiveness provided only people who agree with them are included. They have only condemnation for anyone who holds a different view. Their version of "tolerant" I guess.

[Niall_Quinn]

How would you feel if a black actor was chosen to play James Bond?

I'd burn a cross on his lawn, for sure.

[Niall_Quinn]

How would you feel if a black actor was chosen to play James Bond?

Wouldn't have a problem with this, in reality. Not for the newer films placed in a modern setting. For the older films, obviously ridiculous. Blacks knew their place back then so they wouldn't have had the temerity to turn up for the audition.

[GP]

Wouldn't have a problem with this, in reality. Not for the newer films placed in a modern setting. For the older films, obviously ridiculous. Blacks knew their place back then so they wouldn't have had the temerity to turn up for the audition.

Imagine a black man in a casino, though.

People would just hand him coats.

[Niall_Quinn]

Imagine a black man in a casino, though.

People would just hand him coats.

Yes, but the baddie would hand him his coat too. Pretty smooth way to do a search without rousing suspicion.

And if they saw Bond eyeing up the baddie's car in a suspicious manner, nobody would bat an eyelid.

[Power n Glory]

I was kind of joking. I couldn't give a shite who plays the doctor because I don't watch it.

But I do keep a close eye on lesbians, what I mean to say is I keep a close eye on the political activities of the PC crowd, particularly the dumb feminists (because they are always the first to be led by the nose) and the gay, lezzer, bi, whatsit lobby (who have been pushing an agenda to redefine gender, family and are enjoying massive overrepresentation in the mainstream, media, celeb sewerscommunities). These freakoids will be celebrating today as another male icon gets knocked down. They'll be revelling in the division caused, because they believe fervently in inclusiveness provided only people who agree with them are included. They have only condemnation for anyone who holds a different view. Their version of "tolerant" I guess.

We’re definitely entering an age where if you’re 4 year old son says he wants to be a woman, you have to embrace it and act like it’s normal. Was reading some bullshit at parents allowing the child to choose their sex when they’re older. ;) Crazy times.

[Letters]

It’s not believable. A Black man travelling around the world in that Aston Martin without getting stopped or shot by the police?
:haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

We’re definitely entering an age where if you’re 4 year old son says he wants to be a woman, you have to embrace it and act like it’s normal. Was reading some bullshit at parents allowing the child to choose their sex when they’re older. ;) Crazy times.

Well if my 4 year old son demanded to be a woman he'd be straight into the kitchen to do the dishes.

[Letters]

How would you feel if a black actor was chosen to play James Bond?
It would seem a bit silly. Tokenism.

But I don't know whether Bond was explicitly written as a white character, I've not read any of the books.

Is it the Cursed Child play where the actress playing Hermione is black or mixed race and JK said that she never explicitly said which race that character is. I didn't really care about that. But Harry was suddenly played by a female because he'd used some magic to change his gender then I'd probably be face-palming.

It's fiction/sci-fi, it doesn't matter that much. But the political correctness underlying it does IMO.

[Power n Glory]

It would seem a bit silly. Tokenism.

But I don't know whether Bond was explicitly written as a white character, I've not read any of the books.

Is it the Cursed Child play where the actress playing Hermione is black or mixed race and JK said that she never explicitly said which race that character is. I didn't really care about that. But Harry was suddenly played by a female because he'd used some magic to change his gender then I'd probably be face-palming.

It's fiction/sci-fi, it doesn't matter that much. But the political correctness underlying it does IMO.


Bond was written as a white character and you can tell. They can’t just gloss over that. I agree with what you originally said about creating something original instead of just changing the race or gender of the character. That’s lazy writing. Imagine if they cast Bond as woman. Jane Bond. They’d ignore the little things that make that character. Like how the world responds to that character and their appearance.

I love this scene from Haywire.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0Qsl_6muRY

Shit film but Channing Tatum going full brutal attack mode on Gina Carano was a shock when first watching it. Someone jumps in to the play the hero, as someone probably would in real life, not realising she can hold her own.

[Letters]

What pisses me off is the thought police won't let you have any other opinion.
"I think James Bond should be played by an actor". RACIST!
"I think Dr Who should be played by a male actor". SEXIST!

It's so tiresome...

[Power n Glory]

Some stuff is just fake outrage. This is free publicity for Dr. Who. I don’t have a problem with it since the Doc always gets a new body and personality. It’s not a set in stone type character. Stuff like Bond should stick to the original but when you look up how often a white actor is cast in a role in place of someone of a different race, it hasn’t sparked much debate, only until recently.
Scarlet Johansson in Ghost in the Shell playing the lead Japanese role, Exodus: Gods and Kings with Christian Bale other white actors playing Egyptians, Argo, Ben Affleck’s character was really Latino…..Dragon Ball Z….works both ways. Often the argument has been they’ve selected the best actors for the role.

[Master Splinter]

http://celebrityfitnesstraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/jake-gyllenhaal-training.jpg


http://coursesite.uhcl.edu/HSH/Whitec/ximages/film/IndiaColo/GungaDinJaffe.jpg

[GP]

http://akns-images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2014224/rs_606x606-140324130043-600-robert-downey-jr-tropic-thunder-nick-cannon.ls.32414.jpg

[Letters]

Stuff like Bond should stick to the original but when you look up how often a white actor is cast in a role in place of someone of a different race, it hasn’t sparked much debate, only until recently.
Scarlet Johansson in Ghost in the Shell playing the lead Japanese role, Exodus: Gods and Kings with Christian Bale other white actors playing Egyptians, Argo, Ben Affleck’s character was really Latino…..Dragon Ball Z….works both ways. Often the argument has been they’ve selected the best actors for the role.
That, to be fair, is a pretty good point :good:

http://www.britishclassiccomedy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/10737855_Sykes_Mill_312407b.jpg

The 70s :bow:
:lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

http://akns-images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2014224/rs_606x606-140324130043-600-robert-downey-jr-tropic-thunder-nick-cannon.ls.32414.jpg

http://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/12317348_1513103545650832_1494171727_n.jpg?ig_cach e_key=MTE0Mjg2Mjc2MzI3NjA1ODk4OQ%3D%3D.2

[Niall_Quinn]

Some stuff is just fake outrage. This is free publicity for Dr. Who. I don’t have a problem with it since the Doc always gets a new body and personality. It’s not a set in stone type character. Stuff like Bond should stick to the original but when you look up how often a white actor is cast in a role in place of someone of a different race, it hasn’t sparked much debate, only until recently.
Scarlet Johansson in Ghost in the Shell playing the lead Japanese role, Exodus: Gods and Kings with Christian Bale other white actors playing Egyptians, Argo, Ben Affleck’s character was really Latino…..Dragon Ball Z….works both ways. Often the argument has been they’ve selected the best actors for the role.

That's the main reason they've done this. Moffat killed the show with his shitty self indulgent writing. That's why I stopped watching it. 5-10 episodes of Moffat crowing how clever he is was enough to get the idea. Ratings reacted accordingly. Now they'll peak for a bit but, from what I have experienced, this Chibnall bloke is every bit as shit so the rating should start falling after then novelty has worn off. I suppose if she does a Perry and whips her tits and arse out on a regular basis they might hold the line. But I'm thinking that might not be entirely in line with their PC bullshit.

[Letters]

Just reading about the Dumbo remake.
I can't believe they've made Dumbo an elephant AGAIN.
It's the 21st Century FFS :sulk:

[Niall_Quinn]

Just reading about the Dumbo remake.
I can't believe they've made Dumbo an elephant AGAIN.
It's the 21st Century FFS :sulk:

It's not an elephant. It's a fat lesbian, you racist.

[Marc Overmars]

Will Smith is playing the Genie in the live action Aladdin movie.

Can't believe they've cast a black guy, everyone knows the Genie is blue.

[Niall_Quinn]

Will Smith is playing the Genie in the live action Aladdin movie.

Can't believe they've cast a black guy, everyone knows the Genie is blue.

Certainly blue now a black guy has nicked his job.

[Marc Overmars]

War for the Planet of the Apes. :bow:

Love this trilogy. Up there with the best.

[Letters]

Dunkirk sounds like it's worth a trip to the cinema.

[Power n Glory]

Watched the new Spidey last night and didn't like it.

Planet of the Apes, Dunkirk, Valerian, American Made and Dark Tower next on the agenda.

[Marc Overmars]

I didn't think much of the new Spider-Man either. Lacked a strong villain and frankly having 5 movies done already, I don't think I care enough for the character anymore.

[Power n Glory]

I had low expectations going into the film. They’ve done the story to death and wasn’t going to see it in cinema but Rotten Tomatoes has a 92% score. From what I heard online along with that score, I thought it had to be something special. I was wrong. Sam Raimi’s are still the best of the bunch.

Weak characters all round. Weak story and something we’ve seen before.

[Letters]

This was what I was saying a while back about these cookie cutter movies and got shouted down. There are way too many of them IMO.

[Power n Glory]

This was what I was saying a while back about these cookie cutter movies and got shouted down. There are way too many of them IMO.

Which one did you say was cookie cutter? I recall you saying something about too many Star Wars.

[Letters]

It's all the Marvel/DC stuff. There are a MILLION of those films and actually they are pretty good but I just think there are too many.
Star Wars has the potential to go the same way although I wouldn't say it has yet.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't mind the Marvel Universe films. They're a mixed bag but I generally enjoy them because I'm a comic book and pop culture nerd at heart.

The trouble for this Spider-Man is that the character had already been done by different studios before he joined the universe. So having already long established his origin story and seen the most iconic villains this one was always going to be a slog to make people care again.

[GP]

It's all the Marvel/DC stuff. There are a MILLION of those films and actually they are pretty good but I just think there are too many.
Star Wars has the potential to go the same way although I wouldn't say it has yet.

I honestly couldn't describe the differences between some of the movies. All 3 Iron Man films are basically the same.

[Letters]

The next Iron Man film should have a woman in the title role :sulk:

[Power n Glory]

I don't mind the Marvel Universe films. They're a mixed bag but I generally enjoy them because I'm a comic book and pop culture nerd at heart.

The trouble for this Spider-Man is that the character had already been done by different studios before he joined the universe. So having already long established his origin story and seen the most iconic villains this one was always going to be a slog to make people care again.

Exactly my problem with Spidey. But it's still a Sony studio movie. The old movies Sam Raimi movie's and the ones after with Andrew Garfield were all Sony studio. The most recent is still Sony but they've collaborated with Marvel Studio/Disney to allow him into the Marvel Universe. Just felt like an unnecessary story and tried too hard to add the sort of jokes and action set ups that make the Avengers so popular.

[Power n Glory]

It's all the Marvel/DC stuff. There are a MILLION of those films and actually they are pretty good but I just think there are too many.
Star Wars has the potential to go the same way although I wouldn't say it has yet.

It’s the reboots and sequels that can get tedious. Each of the studios have rights to different comic book characters and they’re all trying to create the money churner Marvel and Disney have cooked up. The Marvel Cinematic Universe, which is why there are so many. Would prefer if the studios at least tried to appeal to an older audience and not just go for the Toy R Us money. Deadpool and Logan could change things.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The next Iron Man film should have a woman in the title role :sulk:

Terror at the Laundromat.

[Power n Glory]

The next Iron Man film should have a woman in the title role :sulk:

http://time.com/4394478/iron-man-riri-williams-tony-stark/

Marvel are way ahead of you with that idea.

[Letters]

Oh FFS

:ilt:

[GP]

The new Indiana Jones is a woman as well.

[Marc Overmars]

Come to think of it, we don't have any female mods.

GW. :lol:

Awful sexists.

[Letters]

We don't have any females at all any more.

[GP]

Did you just assume my gender??????

[Power n Glory]

Oh FFS

:ilt:

That really upsets you? :lol:

[Letters]

I wouldn't say it "really" upsets me.
But it's all a bit silly.

The reaction to the criticism of the Dr Who casting is mostly
"Sexist! Can't you handle the idea of a female lead in a sci-fi series. I bet you think women shouldn't have the vote either" or "Why is the Doctor changing genders unrealistic when they time travel and fight aliens".
NewsThump have been pushing both agendas. Tiresome.

There is nothing sexist about thinking a male actor should be cast in a male role and a female actor in a female role.
As for realism, of course everything about Dr Who is unrealistic but again, it misses the point. A friend posted something to me about this on FB, the start of the article he posted was:


After fifty years of ambiguity, what is perhaps Doctor Who’s most controversial question has been not only answered, but tackled full on. Ever since William Hartnell became Patrick Troughton, people have been speculating, campaigning, and bickering over whether or not our John Smith could ever become Jane Smith

But that's bullshit. No they haven't. The Doctor is male. There has NEVER been any ambiguity about that, never speculation about whether the next doctor would be female. Well, not till recently. Not till the squeal of political correctness got so loud that they had to do this. People saying "it's fiction, get over it!" are also missing the point. Yes, it's fiction but fiction should still have its own internal, consistent logic.

Had the character been established from the start as one which could change gender then it would be different, and actually that would arguably make it a more interesting character. But he hasn't, and that's why this smacks of political correctness and tokenism and it's that which rankles.

[Niall_Quinn]

If you don't accept the latest views, just remember this, you are a stupid fucking racist, sexist white male.

Personally I have found myself being a stupid fucking racist, sexist white male on several occasions. Not because I don't want to believe, but because I can't keep up. If it wasn't for GW I'd still be sitting here thinking there were only two genders.

[Power n Glory]

I wouldn't say it "really" upsets me.
But it's all a bit silly.

The reaction to the criticism of the Dr Who casting is mostly
"Sexist! Can't you handle the idea of a female lead in a sci-fi series. I bet you think women shouldn't have the vote either" or "Why is the Doctor changing genders unrealistic when they time travel and fight aliens".
NewsThump have been pushing both agendas. Tiresome.

There is nothing sexist about thinking a male actor should be cast in a male role and a female actor in a female role.
As for realism, of course everything about Dr Who is unrealistic but again, it misses the point. A friend posted something to me about this on FB, the start of the article he posted was:



But that's bullshit. No they haven't. The Doctor is male. There has NEVER been any ambiguity about that, never speculation about whether the next doctor would be female. Well, not till recently. Not till the squeal of political correctness got so loud that they had to do this. People saying "it's fiction, get over it!" are also missing the point. Yes, it's fiction but fiction should still have its own internal, consistent logic.

Had the character been established from the start as one which could change gender then it would be different, and actually that would arguably make it a more interesting character. But he hasn't, and that's why this smacks of political correctness and tokenism and it's that which rankles.

Think back to discussion about being bored with all the superhero movies. How many times can they tell the same stories from the same perspective? How many of the movies we’ve seen star the same white male protagonist? Is that partly the reason why it gets so boring?

My guess it’s the same issue with Dr. Who. I’d say they’ve got the creative licences to change the race and gender of the character because they’ve been working off this reincarnation concept for ages.

But as said before, this sort of thing has been going on for ages but it’s in reverse where producers have chosen a white actor over another ethnicity. When groups have tried to speak up about it, they’re often been shouted down or ignored. If we are to believe there is an agenda in the media today with the ‘tokenism’, would be fair to say there has been an agenda against marginalised groups when it comes to representation?

[Xhaka Can’t]

I wouldn't say it "really" upsets me.
But it's all a bit silly.

The reaction to the criticism of the Dr Who casting is mostly
"Sexist! Can't you handle the idea of a female lead in a sci-fi series. I bet you think women shouldn't have the vote either" or "Why is the Doctor changing genders unrealistic when they time travel and fight aliens".
NewsThump have been pushing both agendas. Tiresome.

There is nothing sexist about thinking a male actor should be cast in a male role and a female actor in a female role.
As for realism, of course everything about Dr Who is unrealistic but again, it misses the point. A friend posted something to me about this on FB, the start of the article he posted was:



But that's bullshit. No they haven't. The Doctor is male. There has NEVER been any ambiguity about that, never speculation about whether the next doctor would be female. Well, not till recently. Not till the squeal of political correctness got so loud that they had to do this. People saying "it's fiction, get over it!" are also missing the point. Yes, it's fiction but fiction should still have its own internal, consistent logic.

Had the character been established from the start as one which could change gender then it would be different, and actually that would arguably make it a more interesting character. But he hasn't, and that's why this smacks of political correctness and tokenism and it's that which rankles.

At my Grade 6 Easter Play, Jesus was a chick.

[Xhaka Can’t]

If you don't accept the latest views, just remember this, you are a stupid fucking racist, sexist white male.

Personally I have found myself being a stupid fucking racist, sexist white male on several occasions. Not because I don't want to believe, but because I can't keep up. If it wasn't for GW I'd still be sitting here thinking there were only two genders.

You MONSTER!

[Niall_Quinn]

Think back to discussion about being bored with all the superhero movies. How many times can they tell the same stories from the same perspective? How many of the movies we’ve seen star the same white male protagonist? Is that partly the reason why it gets so boring?

My guess it’s the same issue with Dr. Who. I’d say they’ve got the creative licences to change the race and gender of the character because they’ve been working off this reincarnation concept for ages.

But as said before, this sort of thing has been going on for ages but it’s in reverse where producers have chosen a white actor over another ethnicity. When groups have tried to speak up about it, they’re often been shouted down or ignored. If we are to believe there is an agenda in the media today with the ‘tokenism’, would be fair to say there has been an agenda against marginalised groups when it comes to representation?

Could this be linked to Britain having a cultural heritage that stretches back thousands of years? Whilst diverse, Britain's cultural identity is unmistakably western. Mostly whitish dudes coming over here and invading shit and breeding with the mostly whitish (or Welsh) locals. And then, relatively in the blink of an eye, rich dudes who lamented the loss of slave labourphilanthropists and liberal types shipped in a whole bunch of people with radically different cultures. We've had how many short years to dismantle one identity and replace it with another? Not many really. I'd say we were moving along at a commendable crack. I even find it understandable that some people are uneasy with the elimination of a cultural strand that spans millennia. Though I'd never be brave enough to agree with them in public.

[Letters]

If we are to believe there is an agenda in the media today with the ‘tokenism’, would be fair to say there has been an agenda against marginalised groups when it comes to representation?
I think that is fair. Well, I don't know about an overt agenda but maybe a more subtle kind of racism. And that does need addressing. But I do think it's getting to the "positive discrimination" point where they start casting females in clearly male roles.

All that said, I think whatserhface is a brilliant actress and will make a good doctor. Never liked Capaldi much as the doctor, might actually be a better show now.

[Niall_Quinn]

You MONSTER!

I got better!

And I don't appreciate you being so presumptive (and vain) as to refer to me as "you".

[Letters]

At my Grade 6 Easter Play, Jesus was a chick.

He would be spinning in his grave :sulk:

[Niall_Quinn]

He would be spinning in his grave :sulk:

Maybe that's how she ascended into heaven. To be seated at the right hand of the primary child care technician.

[Power n Glory]

Could this be linked to Britain having a cultural heritage that stretches back thousands of years? Whilst diverse, Britain's cultural identity is unmistakably western. Mostly whitish dudes coming over here and invading shit and breeding with the mostly whitish (or Welsh) locals. And then, relatively in the blink of an eye, rich dudes who lamented the loss of slave labourphilanthropists and liberal types shipped in a whole bunch of people with radically different cultures. We've had how many short years to dismantle one identity and replace it with another? Not many really. I'd say we were moving along at a commendable crack. I even find it understandable that some people are uneasy with the elimination of a cultural strand that spans millennia. Though I'd never be brave enough to agree with them in public.

Women were immigrants? That cultural heritage excludes women from the picture? :unsure:

I’m also including what I was talking earlier with Hollywood films. It’s not just about Britain. I’m talking about about recent films like Gods of Egypt, Ghost in the Shell and Argo. If we’re talking about cultural heritage that stretches back thousands of years, is it not valid to ask why it’s ok to ignore heritage and culture in these sort of films?

[Power n Glory]

I think that is fair. Well, I don't know about an overt agenda but maybe a more subtle kind of racism. And that does need addressing. But I do think it's getting to the "positive discrimination" point where they start casting females in clearly male roles.

All that said, I think whatserhface is a brilliant actress and will make a good doctor. Never liked Capaldi much as the doctor, might actually be a better show now.

This what I mean about Dr. Who. It’s a grey area if the character regenerates with a new body and new personality all the time.
Out of 13 different Dr.Who incarnations, one is a woman. Meh. It’s nothing to get upset about really.

[Niall_Quinn]

Women were immigrants? That cultural heritage excludes women from the picture? :unsure:

I’m also including what I was talking earlier with Hollywood films. It’s not just about Britain. I’m talking about about recent films like Gods of Egypt, Ghost in the Shell and Argo. If we’re talking about cultural heritage that stretches back thousands of years, is it not valid to ask why it’s ok to ignore heritage and culture in these sort of films?

Try to be a bit less literal will you? I'm not focusing on any specific, I'm looking at the whole PC movement in general. It's a very recent thing and its demands are being met at a breakneck pace. So what if we did have English speaking films with white guys playing the lead roles? Weren't most of the English speaking actors white guys prior to planned homogenisation of the species? They're more than compensating now though, aren't they? To the extent you can't watch anything for more than 5 minutes without some minority message being forced down your throat, whether that message has any significance to the subject matter or not. So what's the problem? You give them 200mph and they huff because we're not there yet. Are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet? Bloody good job for them they don't live in a communist or eastern influenced nation or they'd have had a right slap by now. Bloody good job for them the west, for all its flaws and profitable mishaps, has been the leading the charge for human rights for centuries.

We're soon going to live in a world where culture, gender, language, the family unit, all the elements that formed the cohesion in our societies will be lost. Replaced by an open ended equality (using the modern definition) that relegates everyone to the lowest denomination. The exact opposite of diversity, by the way, but you can't get anywhere near that realisation without braving of a string of carefully laid minefields. To resist is to be regressive. Resistance is futile.

Even so, this could all be a good thing if enacted in the interests of the many, for the many. But who benefits in reality?

[Niall_Quinn]

This what I mean about Dr. Who. It’s a grey area if the character regenerates with a new body and new personality all the time.
Out of 13 different Dr.Who incarnations, one is a woman. Meh. It’s nothing to get upset about really.

Yes, if you limit your observation to Dr Who, there's nothing much to see here. One lazy and self indulgent writer handing over to a mediocre, at best, writer who needs an edge to give him a fighting chance. The PC agenda is his friend in this instance and it's an easy win for a lazy guy. It's laughable this has been viewed as a brave decision, but there's not much analysis in the mainstream these days.

Take it wider and Dr Who becomes another target on a long list. It's not the TV programme that's the problem, it's the social engineering program.

[Power n Glory]

:lol: The social engineering program has been going on for a long time, NQ. But it's only now that you see it at work because it's not doing what you consider as normal.


To the extent you can't watch anything for more than 5 minutes without some minority message being forced down your throat, whether that message has any significance to the subject matter or not.

Really? How do you think anyone outside of being a white male has felt over the years? :lol:

[Letters]

This what I mean about Dr. Who. It’s a grey area if the character regenerates with a new body and new personality all the time.
Out of 13 different Dr.Who incarnations, one is a woman. Meh. It’s nothing to get upset about really.

It's not that grey, he's always been referred to as "he", as a TimeLORD, he's been established as a father and husband.
I think it could well be a better show with the new incumbent so in itself not something to get too worked up about.
But I think the underlying reasons for it are something to be concerned about.

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol: The social engineering program has been going on for a long time, NQ. But it's only now that you see it at work because it's not doing what you consider as normal.



Really? How do you think anyone outside of being a white male has felt over the years? :lol:

"Normal"? That's the whole point of social engineering, is it not? Creating the new normal, even when it directly contradicts the old normal. So, being familiar with the old engineering agendas, as you claim, I assume you also realise that for social engineering to be completely successful the targets of that engineering must believe their views and attitudes are generated from within? The alternative is to dictate, and that has been shown to be a less effective form of control in the long term.

The question to you then. Why should the victims of prior engineering agendas be so vigorously criticised for adopting the new normals at varying rates? Wouldn't it be more useful and produce better results if the slower and less enlightened members of society, the thicko Brexit and Trump lot for example, were allowed to be indoctrinated at a pace that suited their limited cognitive abilities? We weren't all born geniuses.

Eventually everyone will realise there are 97 genders, if only to get a bit of peace and quiet. Is it really necessary, or even helpful, to criticise certain segments of society as they come to terms with these new "realities" at their own pace?

Surely the minority that directly benefits from this social engineering and control is smart enough and experienced enough by now to realise you can't rush these things? If anything, throwing around terms like racist or sexist act as a brake on the advent of the brave new world? And arguments such as, "Look at you! Stuck in your old ways that I engineered for you last time around. You dinosaur!" - are they really useful?

I think a little less aggression and more loving and compassionate condescension is what will work best.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I wouldn't say it "really" upsets me.
But it's all a bit silly.

The reaction to the criticism of the Dr Who casting is mostly
"Sexist! Can't you handle the idea of a female lead in a sci-fi series. I bet you think women shouldn't have the vote either" or "Why is the Doctor changing genders unrealistic when they time travel and fight aliens".
NewsThump have been pushing both agendas. Tiresome.

There is nothing sexist about thinking a male actor should be cast in a male role and a female actor in a female role.
As for realism, of course everything about Dr Who is unrealistic but again, it misses the point. A friend posted something to me about this on FB, the start of the article he posted was:



But that's bullshit. No they haven't. The Doctor is male. There has NEVER been any ambiguity about that, never speculation about whether the next doctor would be female. Well, not till recently. Not till the squeal of political correctness got so loud that they had to do this. People saying "it's fiction, get over it!" are also missing the point. Yes, it's fiction but fiction should still have its own internal, consistent logic.

Had the character been established from the start as one which could change gender then it would be different, and actually that would arguably make it a more interesting character. But he hasn't, and that's why this smacks of political correctness and tokenism and it's that which rankles.

Whilst I agree with you that Doctor Who is a male character. It is not in anyway a recent thing to suggest that a woman could take the part, like I say the speculation about it or clamour for it is older than me. Doubtless because of social media that has been more amplified. But In fact ever since the wife of your bezza mate Richard Dawkins was palling around with Tom Baker it's become a question that's been asked.

What I find interesting is the potential reaction if they recast a male in three or four years time when Jodie What's her face leaves to avoid typecasting.

[Power n Glory]

"Normal"? That's the whole point of social engineering, is it not? Creating the new normal, even when it directly contradicts the old normal. So, being familiar with the old engineering agendas, as you claim, I assume you also realise that for social engineering to be completely successful the targets of that engineering must believe their views and attitudes are generated from within? The alternative is to dictate, and that has been shown to be a less effective form of control in the long term.

The question to you then. Why should the victims of prior engineering agendas be so vigorously criticised for adopting the new normals at varying rates? Wouldn't it be more useful and produce better results if the slower and less enlightened members of society, the thicko Brexit and Trump lot for example, were allowed to be indoctrinated at a pace that suited their limited cognitive abilities? We weren't all born geniuses.

Eventually everyone will realise there are 97 genders, if only to get a bit of peace and quiet. Is it really necessary, or even helpful, to criticise certain segments of society as they come to terms with these new "realities" at their own pace?

Surely the minority that directly benefits from this social engineering and control is smart enough and experienced enough by now to realise you can't rush these things? If anything, throwing around terms like racist or sexist act as a brake on the advent of the brave new world? And arguments such as, "Look at you! Stuck in your old ways that I engineered for you last time around. You dinosaur!" - are they really useful?

I think a little less aggression and more loving and compassionate condescension is what will work best.

To that point, have you spoken openly about this to the women in your life? Are you having this sort of open conversation? Mother, wife/girlfriend, daughter, niece, aunt...whatever?

A stranger on the internet can't really provide that much perspective. Do people know how you think or is this only something that comes out on the net or GW?

Same question applies to Letters.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's not that grey, he's always been referred to as "he", as a TimeLORD, he's been established as a father and husband.
I think it could well be a better show with the new incumbent so in itself not something to get too worked up about.
But I think the underlying reasons for it are something to be concerned about.

Social justice warriors break down barriers. That's just the way it is. They spot a character that has been male for 50 years. Well there's a wrong that needs to be righted. A social injustice if ever there was one. The integrity of character, the developed and long established storyline, these are based in fiction and subject to change. Hell, we have 98 genders now so even biology is subject to radical whimsy. The harm this Doctor character must have done to females all these years. It's incalculable.

Meanwhile, social justice warriors are wearing burkas to show their solidarity for progressive Muslims.

Yes. These people are fucking crazy. But they are doing it in the name of justice. Just the convenient justices that don't require them to get their arses out of their chairs. Twitteresque injustices, if you like.

Women having their genitals mutilated and being treated like slaves. Well that's a grey area. Let's not be too hasty in jumping to conclusions with that stuff.

[Niall_Quinn]

To that point, have you spoken openly about this to the women in your life? Are you having this sort of open conversation? Mother, wife/girlfriend, daughter, niece, aunt...whatever?

A stranger on the internet can't really provide that much perspective. Do people know how you think or is this only something that comes out on the net or GW?

Same question applies to Letters.

Spoken about this shit to women? I have to say, I don't know many women who are crazed enough to worry about such things. They are busy getting on with their lives and giving anyone, male or otherwise, a hard time in return if they discriminate against them for any reason. I guess.

This is something the virtue patrol just don't get. The only time people roll their eyes in consideration of this bullshit is when some minority fanatic is crowing about their latest triumph. None of their antics are ever discussed seriously because these people are all about turning over convention in the most confrontational manner. They are a parody, but an insidious one nonetheless. The only reason they gain any ground is because those social engineers you mentioned last time have found the ultimate in useful idiocy.

[Letters]

To that point, have you spoken openly about this to the women in your life? Are you having this sort of open conversation? Mother, wife/girlfriend, daughter, niece, aunt...whatever?

A stranger on the internet can't really provide that much perspective. Do people know how you think or is this only something that comes out on the net or GW?

Same question applies to Letters.

Spoken about what? The Dr Who thing or the more general PCness underlying it which concerns me?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Social justice warriors break down barriers. That's just the way it is. They spot a character that has been male for 50 years. Well there's a wrong that needs to be righted. A social injustice if ever there was one. The integrity of character, the developed and long established storyline, these are based in fiction and subject to change. Hell, we have 98 genders now so even biology is subject to radical whimsy. The harm this Doctor character must have done to females all these years. It's incalculable.

Meanwhile, social justice warriors are wearing burkas to show their solidarity for progressive Muslims.

Yes. These people are fucking crazy. But they are doing it in the name of justice. Just the convenient justices that don't require them to get their arses out of their chairs. Twitteresque injustices, if you like.

Women having their genitals mutilated and being treated like slaves. Well that's a grey area. Let's not be too hasty in jumping to conclusions with that stuff.

Social justice Warriors are very unfortunate creatures

The big problem they have is that all the big battles that made any sense were fought decades ago, and like Tony Benn it rankles with them that they themselves are hot disadvantaged and it makes them the most aggressive crusaders for fallacious causes.

Usually on behalf of people whom they've never even bothered to ask whether they feel opressed, or they've invented minorities (it's called a mental Ilness, but people with mental illness don't act that irrationally).

I hate it when these people are called Liberals, it's a debasement of the word. What is remotely Liberal about demanding conformity from others?.

Call them what they are over privileged regressive left authoritarian gobshites

[Power n Glory]

Spoken about this shit to women? I have to say, I don't know many women who are crazed enough to worry about such things. They are busy getting on with their lives and giving anyone, male or otherwise, a hard time in return if they discriminate against them for any reason. I guess.

This is something the virtue patrol just don't get. The only time people roll their eyes in consideration of this bullshit is when some minority fanatic is crowing about their latest triumph. None of their antics are ever discussed seriously because these people are all about turning over convention in the most confrontational manner. They are a parody, but an insidious one nonetheless. The only reason they gain any ground is because those social engineers you mentioned last time have found the ultimate in useful idiocy.

I take that as no. ;)

Nobody actually talking and just letting rip on the net is a problem. You're assuming none of the woman are concerned about this. Even if they aren't concerned, you clearly are since you make a point of it on here everyday. Do the people in your life know how you view things?

[Power n Glory]

Spoken about what? The Dr Who thing or the more general PCness underlying it which concerns me?

Both.

[Power n Glory]

Social justice Warriors are very unfortunate creatures

The big problem they have is that all the big battles that made any sense were fought decades ago, and like Tony Benn it rankles with them that they themselves are hot disadvantaged and it makes them the most aggressive crusaders for fallacious causes.

Usually on behalf of people whom they've never even bothered to ask whether they feel opressed, or they've invented minorities (it's called a mental Ilness, but people with mental illness don't act that irrationally).

I hate it when these people are called Liberals, it's a debasement of the word. What is remotely Liberal about demanding conformity from others?.

Call them what they are over privileged regressive left authoritarian gobshites

True. Keyboard Warriors are so much better. ;)

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My experience is limited to the women I know, but most of whom as NQ has stated simply do not give a fuck about gender politics.

They are interested in their work, their social lives, their family and their individual interests. I care more about it than them, simply because I resent being told by nitwits like Laurie Penny than men are a barrier to a woman's personal, emotional growth and realising their ambitions.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

True. Keyboard Warriors are so much better. ;)

They are surely just a form of keyboard warrior.

For me I find their beliefs nonsensical, but that's not the problem it's the way they insist upon their right to push this nonsense without scrutiny. And the way they go about demonising those who don't agree with them. I think those who belong to what's called the Alt Right are equally frivolous and resistant to counter point. Some of them like to close down those who don't agree with them.
But there is no equivalence in comparison, the SJW almost uniformly consider criticism a form of opression an discrimination.
They lecture people on their beliefs and attitudes far more than the right do currently.

[Letters]

Probably did rant to MrsL about the Dr Who thing. Actually I definitely did, she was sitting with me when the announcement was on after Wimbledon.
I don't think she really cared either way as she's not a fan but I think she could see the point.
The bigger issue, well bearing in mind we're Christians we have a pretty solid idea of "God made them male and female" and I think we're both for equality while recognising that men and women are different.
Equal in value, but not the same. It's this last point which is now becoming non-PC, it's becoming frowned about to think that there is any difference between the genders and I guess that's part of what leads to there being 80 different ones or whatever 'cos now you can pick your own. It's utter bullshit and I think MrsL and me are on the same page about that.

[Letters]

If I see the word "mainsplaining" one more time :fury:
Would you like any shoulder with your chips, madam?

[Xhaka Can’t]

I thought giving the role of Dr. Who to a woman was an economic decision.

[Letters]

:lol: It's funny 'cos women earn less than men.
I actually said to an idiot feminist Facebook friend who was railing one Christmas about there being a "For Him" and "For Her" present display - because, of course, women and men are now exactly the same and like the same things so that is terrible - that maybe something like pay equality is something a bit more worth getting worked up about. But that was "patronising" and "mansplaining" and...there's no talking to people like that.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If I see the word "mainsplaining" one more time :fury:
Would you like any shoulder with your chips, madam?

Ah yes that word

Best way to counteract it? Just say prove that I wouldn't talk to another man that way. Oh you can't? Well fuck off then

[Xhaka Can’t]

:lol: It's funny 'cos women earn less than men.
I actually said to an idiot feminist Facebook friend who was railing one Christmas about there being a "For Him" and "For Her" present display - because, of course, women and men are now exactly the same and like the same things so that is terrible - that maybe something like pay equality is something a bit more worth getting worked up about. But that was "patronising" and "mansplaining" and...there's no talking to people like that.

Just get her a beard trimmer for Christmas.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:lol: It's funny 'cos women earn less than men.
I actually said to an idiot feminist Facebook friend who was railing one Christmas about there being a "For Him" and "For Her" present display - because, of course, women and men are now exactly the same and like the same things so that is terrible - that maybe something like pay equality is something a bit more worth getting worked up about. But that was "patronising" and "mansplaining" and...there's no talking to people like that.

Whilst I think there was an apparent gender pay gap at the Beeb, it was overstated as it is in society in general

The pay gap depending on who is telling you is between 85% and 95% and that's based on aggregate pay rather than different pay for the same job.

There's an attitude in society actually mostly in the mindset of women that they either feel they shouldn't or don't want to go for the top jobs rather than a resistance to women getting the top jobs. It also doesn't help that if a man or woman go for the same job and a man gets it, it's instantly sexism.....no fuck that, prove it or shut the fuck up.

It's not lack of oportunity either as there are now more women in higher education than there is men.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Just get her a beard trimmer for Christmas.

Did Xi like it?

[Power n Glory]

Probably did rant to MrsL about the Dr Who thing. Actually I definitely did, she was sitting with me when the announcement was on after Wimbledon.
I don't think she really cared either way as she's not a fan but I think she could see the point.
The bigger issue, well bearing in mind we're Christians we have a pretty solid idea of "God made them male and female" and I think we're both for equality while recognising that men and women are different.
Equal in value, but not the same. It's this last point which is now becoming non-PC, it's becoming frowned about to think that there is any difference between the genders and I guess that's part of what leads to there being 80 different ones or whatever 'cos now you can pick your own. It's utter bullshit and I think MrsL and me are on the same page about that.

You think you had a conversation and think she gets your point. A rant isn't really a conversation. She's your wife so you should know her better than anyone else.

But for me, the conversations I’ve had helps to add some perspective. It doesn’t necessarily have to be linked with social issues or ‘gender politics’ either. Just in everyday stuff like entertainment something can crop up and you can kinda of start to see how stuff like this plays a role.

[Letters]

With the best will in the world, MrsL isn't much of an academic. I don't think this sort of level of conversation is her kind of thing really.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Do you have a wife or long term partner PNG? Have you ever known her to rant on a topic you couldn't possibly give less of a fuck about if you tried but has her very animated, and has your response ever been a non committal "yeah I guess I can see what you're saying".

I've had it before. Maybe Letters can only guess what Mrs Letters feels because the matter was incredibly insignificant to her.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

With the best will in the world, MrsL isn't much of an academic.

She married you....it kind of goes without saying :lol:

[Letters]

Fuck you! :lol:

[Power n Glory]

Do you have a wife or long term partner PNG? Have you ever known her to rant on a topic you couldn't possibly give less of a fuck about if you tried but has her very animated, and has your response ever been a non committal "yeah I guess I can see what you're saying".

I've had it before. Maybe Letters can only guess what Mrs Letters feels because the matter was incredibly insignificant to her.

Every situation is different. But the point is, the conversation between strangers on an anonymous forum is pointless. When someone is venting or ranting, it's usually one sided and not a conversation. I'm talking more so about situations where both of you are invested in something and have a different perspective. i.e watching the same film or tv show. Reading the same book or something online.

[Niall_Quinn]

I take that as no. ;)

Nobody actually talking and just letting rip on the net is a problem. You're assuming none of the woman are concerned about this. Even if they aren't concerned, you clearly are since you make a point of it on here everyday. Do the people in your life know how you view things?

Is that a serious question? Do you honestly think people can live in close proximity for years and not get some idea of how the people around them view the world? If anything, I'm too expressive when it comes to sharing my opinions. BUT, and this is the HUGE BUT, the very nature of my belief system means I am 100% perfectly happy with people having a different opinion. In fact it comforts me greatly to know that every other person on the planet doesn't agree with me on every issue. It's a subconscious comfort because, WTF, of course people don't fucking agree with everything I say.

Which brings us back to social justice warriors and where they fundamentally went wrong.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Granted and of course 99% of the users on this board are male

we can however only draw from our own experience at the end of the day, but most women I know don't concern themselves with gender politics and it's not because they aren't academic enough to appreciate the arguments it's because they have far more pressing concerns.

Always seems interesting to me that people who happen to belong to a certain gender think they can speak for that entire gender. I certainly wouldn't have the conceit to suggest I speak for all men when I say I resent being told by third wave feminists that we are living in a misogynist dystopia and I should check my privilege.

[Letters]

In fact it comforts me greatly to know that every other person on the planet doesn't agree with me on every issue.
Me too! :d

[Letters]

most women I know don't concern themselves with gender politics and it's not because they aren't academic enough to appreciate the arguments it's because they have far more pressing concerns.
Like the ironing and washing up?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Like the ironing and washing up?

Ironing perhaps they can't do any worse a job than me

But washing up? Only a man can clean a grill pan satisfactorily.

[Niall_Quinn]

True. Keyboard Warriors are so much better. ;)

That's what I am is it? A keyboard warrior?

Surely by now you have figured out that my whole philosophy is simple enough. I say, think, do whatever the fuck I want to say, think do, whenever the fuck I want to say, think, do, it and who the fuck, by the way, are you to tell me otherwise?

So when I get on the Internet and observe people dictating what I should say, think or do then sure, fuck them. And isn't that what I say? Fuck you! I don't dance around it, do I?

How is that being a keyboard warrior? If I wanted to be a real keyboard warrior I'd be out there telling people what to say and think and browbeating them if they disagreed. When did I ever tell anybody they couldn't be a mindless drone? I might have said, look at those mindless drones, that's a bit sad. But I never said let's force those mindless drones into doing shit they don't want to do.

On the contrary, I'm usually defending my right to an opinion. I don't vote. Hey! Fuck you! Why don't you vote? People died for you sonny!

Nope. Not me who is the keyboard warrior. Might be somebody else, but not me.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/a9169991/why-guys-love-female-orgasms/?src=socialflowFB

I don't believe that all women who claim to be feminists are like this, but this is the kind of pernicious bile feminism produces

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's what I am is it? A keyboard warrior?

Surely by now you have figured out that my whole philosophy is simple enough. I say, think, do whatever the fuck I want to say, think do, whenever the fuck I want to say, think, do, it and who the fuck, by the way, are you to tell me otherwise?

So when I get on the Internet and observe people dictating what I should say, think or do then sure, fuck them. And isn't that what I say? Fuck you! I don't dance around it, do I?

How is that being a keyboard warrior? If I wanted to be a real keyboard warrior I'd be out there telling people what to say and think and browbeating them if they disagreed. When did I ever tell anybody they couldn't be a mindless drone? I might have said, look at those mindless drones, that's a bit sad. But I never said let's force those mindless drones into doing shit they don't want to do.

On the contrary, I'm usually defending my right to an opinion. I don't vote. Hey! Fuck you! Why don't you vote? People died for you sonny!

Nope. Not me who is the keyboard warrior. Might be somebody else, but not me.

Think he was referring to me.

[Power n Glory]

Is that a serious question? Do you honestly think people can live in close proximity for years and not get some idea of how the people around them view the world? If anything, I'm too expressive when it comes to sharing my opinions. BUT, and this is the HUGE BUT, the very nature of my belief system means I am 100% perfectly happy with people having a different opinion. In fact it comforts me greatly to know that every other person on the planet doesn't agree with me on every issue. It's a subconscious comfort because, WTF, of course people don't fucking agree with everything I say.

Which brings us back to social justice warriors and where they fundamentally went wrong.

They very well may know your views but are you constantly having this level of conversation with the people around you. If you're to assume that most women aren't interested in this sort of thing, how do you know? They may know your views on certain topics and just avoid steering the conversation in that direction. It happens all the time.

[Niall_Quinn]

I thought giving the role of Dr. Who to a woman was an economic decision.

You thought right. But that doesn't mean you aren't a racist.

[Niall_Quinn]

They very well may know your views but are you constantly having this level of conversation with the people around you. If you're to assume that most women aren't interested in this sort of thing, how do you know? They may know your views on certain topics and just avoid steering the conversation in that direction. It happens all the time.

I don't have any time for relationships that require extreme compromise. Pandering was never my thing and will never be my thing, and anyone who pandered to me wouldn't be around me for very long because I;d find them entirely uninteresting.

I have much more complex discussions in the real world than here online. Because remote typing gets in the way of adding any real substance to a genuine interaction.

This shit here that I'm doing now - that's mostly to avoid doing work I know needs to be done but is, in the end, boring and pointless. I'll get the work done in the end, to appease the money God, but if I can shirk here and there and get away with it, I'll take it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Do you have a wife or long term partner PNG? Have you ever known her to rant on a topic you couldn't possibly give less of a fuck about if you tried but has her very animated, and has your response ever been a non committal "yeah I guess I can see what you're saying".

I've had it before. Maybe Letters can only guess what Mrs Letters feels because the matter was incredibly insignificant to her.

Listening patiently to your partner on a topic you couldn't give a fuck about is the foundation of marriage. An act of true love, if you like. And the ultimate self sacrifice.

However, if it's always like that then get a divorce ASAP.

It'd be horrible if you married somebody just like yourself. Creepy. Void.

It's the great conversations you wait for. The ones where you do connect and the whole ends up being more than the sum of the parts. But, of course, you have to go through a fair bit of randomness to get there. And if that randomness is absent you've probably got into a terminal rut.

[Letters]

We just sit and watch telly :shrug:
After "hi, how's your day been" there's not that much else to say really.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We just sit and watch telly :shrug:
After "hi, how's your day been" there's not that much else to say really.

I've always hated you?

I want a divorce?

I regard sex with you as akin to necrophillia?

[Power n Glory]

Granted and of course 99% of the users on this board are male

we can however only draw from our own experience at the end of the day, but most women I know don't concern themselves with gender politics and it's not because they aren't academic enough to appreciate the arguments it's because they have far more pressing concerns.

Always seems interesting to me that people who happen to belong to a certain gender think they can speak for that entire gender. I certainly wouldn't have the conceit to suggest I speak for all men when I say I resent being told by third wave feminists that we are living in a misogynist dystopia and I should check my privilege.

That's pretty funny.

[Letters]

I've always hated you?

I want a divorce?

I regard sex with you as akin to necrophillia?

Have you been speaking to MrsL? :unsure:

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/a9169991/why-guys-love-female-orgasms/?src=socialflowFB

I don't believe that all women who claim to be feminists are like this, but this is the kind of pernicious bile feminism produces


Of course guys manage to make YOUR orgasm about themselves

:haha:

Hilarious, at least for anyone who has ventured into the real world.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's pretty funny.

Interesting that to make your point that you didn't have you had to neglect the sentence previously that negates it

When I say most women I know I mean it literally I mean of the women I know

And I prefaced it by stating that we can only draw from our own experience to ram the point home that I cannot speak for any gender universally.

Or would you like to suggest that I'm using the women I know as a paradigm case for all women?

[Niall_Quinn]

PnG just likes a good argument for the sake of it.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think if everyone just played this all day long we'd all get along a whole lot better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4UtBYUMVJk

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

PnG just likes a good argument for the sake of it.

Well I can't say too much as I do enjoy that as well

But he's being a bit querulous on this subject.

[Niall_Quinn]

Just done a massive spliff in one sitting. Now I love everyone. Except those SJW cunts.

[Niall_Quinn]

Getting back to films. Did I mention how SHIT the new Alien film is?

It continues to bug me how shit that film is.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Getting back to films. Did I mention how SHIT the new Alien film is?

It continues to bug me how shit that film is.

Meh I only like the first one anyway

[GP]

Alien vs Predator is the best one.

[GP]

I mean worst

[Power n Glory]

Interesting that to make your point that you didn't have you had to neglect the sentence previously that negates it

When I say most women I know I mean it literally I mean of the women I know

And I prefaced it by stating that we can only draw from our own experience to ram the point home that I cannot speak for any gender universally.

Or would you like to suggest that I'm using the women I know as a paradigm case for all women?

I find that hard to believe. But if you say so. I don't know them. But from my experience and from what I've seen and heard, It's a concern and even down to the smallest of things. I only have to think back to when I was at school and the girls were told that they weren't allowed to wear trousers in the winter or how long their skirts had to be. A minor teen issue then but even today in the office, the woman have to be mindful of how they dress. That debate even happens in the church. Letters must know about that one at least. The onus is on the woman not to tempt the man with 'provocative' clothing.

But even on a deeper level, I find it hard to believe none of them have to deal with unwanted sexual attention. I've heard plenty of stories. From being at the wrong place with a group of guys and having to be able to navigate your way out of that situation when someone gets too hands on, to even being cautious of when a guy offers to buy you a drink or what sort of cab to jump in when getting back home. The sort of things we often don't even have to consider.

This is just from some of the conversations I've had. It doesn't have to be an academic conversation or even as closely linked to the 'gender politics' you refer to. Just everyday stuff.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I find that hard to believe. But if you say so. I don't know them. But from my experience and from what I've seen and heard, It's a concern and even down to the smallest of things. I only have to think back to when I was at school and the girls were told that they weren't allowed to wear trousers in the winter or how long their skirts had to be. A minor teen issue then but even today in the office, the woman have to be mindful of how they dress. That debate even happens in the church. Letters must know about that one at least. The onus is on the woman not to tempt the man with 'provocative' clothing.

But even on a deeper level, I find it hard to believe none of them have to deal with unwanted sexual attention. I've heard plenty of stories. From being at the wrong place with a group of guys and having to be able to navigate your way out of that situation when someone gets too hands on, to even being cautious of when a guy offers to buy you a drink or what sort of cab to jump in when getting back home. The sort of things we often don't even have to consider.

This is just from some of the conversations I've had. It doesn't have to be an academic conversation or even as closely linked to the 'gender politics' you refer to. Just everyday stuff.

You understand though that there is a difference between women talking about how they've had unwanted attention from men and embracing gender politics.

And that's all I'm saying. Yes unfortunately I have spoken to women who have been recipients of harassment and assault, I persuaded a friend of mine to go to the police about it as additional to assaulting her this guy was also stalking her.

[Power n Glory]

You understand though that there is a difference between women talking about how they've had unwanted attention from men and embracing gender politics.

And that's all I'm saying. Yes unfortunately I have spoken to women who have been recipients of harassment and assault, I persuaded a friend of mine to go to the police about it as additional to assaulting her this guy was also stalking her.

I not even sure I know what you mean by gender politics but can the two be separated from this subject? Especially when talking about the imagery in media which goes back to Dr. Who and NQ casually joking about her needing to show her tits and ass to keep viewers interested. It's just a joke but It's all interwined.

[Niall_Quinn]

I not even sure I know what you mean by gender politics but can the two be separated from this subject? Especially when talking about the imagery in media which goes back to Dr. Who and NQ casually joking about her needing to show her tits and ass to keep viewers interested. It's just a joke but It's all interwined.

Are you now claiming you don't want her to show her tits and arse?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I not even sure I know what you mean by gender politics but can the two be separated from this subject? Especially when talking about the imagery in media which goes back to Dr. Who and NQ casually joking about her needing to show her tits and ass to keep viewers interested. It's just a joke but It's all interwined.

If you genuinely believe that such comments feed into a mindset where to young men sexually assaulting women is acceptable I guess.
I don't of course, as I repeat above in singularly male company it is ordinary for the opposite sex to be objectified to a degree. Much like the girls in my office who have a girls night in watching Magic Mike.

I don't believe that's a pre cursor to sexual aggression and it infantilises the scumbags who behave in that way.

[Power n Glory]

If you genuinely believe that such comments feed into a mindset where to young men sexually assaulting women is acceptable I guess.
I don't of course, as I repeat above in singularly male company it is ordinary for the opposite sex to be objectified to a degree. Much like the girls in my office who have a girls night in watching Magic Mike.

I don't believe that's a pre cursor to sexual aggression and it infantilises the scumbags who behave in that way.

I don't believe the comments feed into anything. It just plays into the wider discussion about how women are represented in the media and sexism.

[Letters]

A minor teen issue then but even today in the office, the woman have to be mindful of how they dress. That debate even happens in the church. Letters must know about that one at least. The onus is on the woman not to tempt the man with 'provocative' clothing.
I've never heard that debate expressed at church openly but then it's never really been an issue. We don't have a dress code and people tend to dress fairly casually. No-one turns up like they're just about to go out clubbing though. I think if any of the women turned up with their knockers pretty much hanging out then something would be said.
When we have worship songs we show the words on the screen and put images behind them. There was one picture of a young lady who was fairly respectfully dressed but someone complained that the picture was too provocative! :lol:
We'll have to make sure to only use pictures of munters in future [add your own "MrsL" joke here].

I do think there is a certain onus on women since traditionally it's the men who do the chasing and the woman who "put on a display" so they are chased. That's just biology for you, you get the same in many species. This is where I get irritated when people say it's "victim blaming" to say that women are putting themselves at risk if they dress provocatively and get blind drunk and then walk down dark alleys on their own. Yes, in a perfect world women "should" be safe to do as they please, in the same way that I "should" be safe to wear a load of bling and walk around in a rough part of town. But we don't live in a perfect world, in the real one it makes some sense for women to act in a way which doesn't put them in unnecessary danger. That doesn't mean it's their fault if something happens, any more than it's my fault if I get mugged in the scenario I outlined, but it does mean in both cases that the person maybe acted in a way that put them in more danger than they needed to.

[Power n Glory]

That's where the inequality and sexism comes into play. It's not a perfect world at all. As a men, we don't have to worry about being sexually assaulted after going out and getting drunk. We wear what we want and don't have to think twice about attracting attention. What counts as 'unnecessary danger or 'provocative'?

The only way I think you'll understand the whole 'victim blaming argument is if gay men and transgenders started raping straight men on nights out :lol: If it gets to court and the lawyer starts bringing up how much you drank, your sexual history and how your t shirt and skinny jeans put you in a danger, you'll probably have that WTF moment.

[Letters]

But this comes back to the fact that men and women are DIFFERENT. This is what gets lost in all this feminism and equality. Yes, women should have equal rights, equal opportunities, equal pay for the same job and so on.
But, fundamentally, men and women are different no matter how much feminists may scream that we're all the same, it just isn't true. And women ARE at more risk because of that. It isn't their "fault" and it isn't because of "society" or "sexism" or "patriarchy", it's just biology. Look around in nature, in pretty much every species the male and female have different roles and thus act differently. We, as a species, are a bit more enlightened of course, but there are fundamental things about our makeup which means men and women will never be the same, nor should we be.
In the scenario you suggest then yes, then men would have to start taking more care in the way they act. We are fortunate that we don't but no amount of people shouting "women should be able to dress/act how they want without being in danger" changes the fact that acting in certain ways will put them in more danger. It shouldn't do in a perfect world, but we don't live in one.

[Power n Glory]

How does that come back to the fact that men and women are DIFFERENT? So sexual assault is in a man's nature? It's just biology? Where are you going with this argument considering we're talking about sexual assault?

You’re also missing how this plays out in law and policy. Yes, women and men are different but that then leaks into the issues we have with women and equal pay or not being considered for certain jobs. It works both ways because when it comes to divorce and custody battles, the law favours the woman and the same goes for maternity policies.

[GP]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who:_The_Curse_of_Fatal_Death

[Letters]

Men generally are the ones who do the chasing when it comes to relationships and women are the chased. It's a simplification but it's generally how things are.
And that is not because of "society", it's just a reflection of men and women being different and that is part of our nature.
In nature in plenty of species the male just goes up to the female and gets on with it, there doesn't seem to be much consent going on. I'm sure thousands of years ago it was the same for humans and that must have been so for most of our history as a species, so one could argue what we now call sexual assault is in our "nature".
We, of course, have now evolved beyond that. We have morals and laws and that is no longer deemed appropriate but the underlying nature remains. If we lived in a perfect world everyone would follow those morals, but we don't.
Were there no difference between the genders you'd expect an equal number of assaults by men on women and by women on men but that's not what happens. The fact that it's men who commit most of these offences is a reflection of our nature.

And the fact that women get better maternity leave than men get paternity and do better in divorce cases is a reflection of women being thought as the primary carer and men being thought of as the "provider". And that also goes back to what we see in many species in nature, men and women simply have different roles. The idea that a man would be the stay at home dad and the woman would be the one going out to work is a very recent idea. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but it isn't traditionally how things have been.

[Letters]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who:_The_Curse_of_Fatal_Death

I think Red Nose Day is a clue there that this was not to be taken that seriously.

[GP]

I think Red Nose Day is a clue there that this was not to be taken that seriously.

Yes Doctor Who is usually super serious stuff.

[Letters]

Yes Doctor Who is usually super serious stuff.

:lol: Fair point.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Letters does have a point, it's not victim blaming to say you are going to make yourself a target as a woman if you are intoxicated, dress in a certain way and travel alone in a secluded area. That's not because Men biologically are unable to resist that as natural predators, but there are some men who are natural predators because they aren't nice people. And no amount of educating men to respect and not objectify women is going to change that.
The legal system we have requires cross examination and no a woman's clothing or level of inebriation should not be a mitigation for the perpetrator but it is a factor to say if you were that drunk is it conceivable that you cannot remember whether you have consented or not, now I think personally if a woman is that drunk a man has to be a scumbag to have sex with someone but if it can be argued that he might have grounds to believe that consent was given, that's the difference between whether they serve a long prison sentence or not.

I don't sympathise with men who find themselves in that position as I think it is sexually predatory, but rape is a very grey area in such circumstances.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_rape

[Letters]

As I said, there are ways that women may act which potentially puts them at more risk but that absolutely doesn't mitigate and shouldn't be brought up in court.
If I went into a jewellers and noticed the cabinet had been left unlocked so nicked a load of stuff the fact it was left unlocked wouldn't be a factor in the ensuing court case.
"They were asking for it..."

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No I think the level of intoxication has to be a factor. Otherwise we are simply stating that if a woman claims she's been raped she's been raped.

Take one of the examples in the Wikipedia entry, if they guy believed he had raped her and it had not been consensual it's fair to say he wouldn't have even mentioned what happened to her

[Power n Glory]

Men generally are the ones who do the chasing when it comes to relationships and women are the chased. It's a simplification but it's generally how things are.
And that is not because of "society", it's just a reflection of men and women being different and that is part of our nature.
In nature in plenty of species the male just goes up to the female and gets on with it, there doesn't seem to be much consent going on. I'm sure thousands of years ago it was the same for humans and that must have been so for most of our history as a species, so one could argue what we now call sexual assault is in our "nature".
We, of course, have now evolved beyond that. We have morals and laws and that is no longer deemed appropriate but the underlying nature remains. If we lived in a perfect world everyone would follow those morals, but we don't.
Were there no difference between the genders you'd expect an equal number of assaults by men on women and by women on men but that's not what happens. The fact that it's men who commit most of these offences is a reflection of our nature.

And the fact that women get better maternity leave than men get paternity and do better in divorce cases is a reflection of women being thought as the primary carer and men being thought of as the "provider". And that also goes back to what we see in many species in nature, men and women simply have different roles. The idea that a man would be the stay at home dad and the woman would be the one going out to work is a very recent idea. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but it isn't traditionally how things have been.

It's a real worry that you’re having a problem distinguishing the difference between courting and sexual assault/rape. It’s also funny to hear you use evolution to back up your argument. Genesis says nothing about our nature being likened to the animals. But we can side step that debate.

There has to be a level of self-control. If we were to talk about cases involving minors, we’re not going to talk about what the girl was wearing or make any excuses for a man’s ‘nature’ or what provoked him. Think about what you’re saying for second.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I could be wrong but you appear to be conflating defence in court/mitigation with Rape prevention.

The simple fact is predators going to be predators and whilst there is no excuse for their behaviour, it's not unreasonable to state that in order to prevent yourself being a victim of this predator, if you're going to get drunk make sure you're in a group of people. The same way crime prevention ads advise people to leave their lights on when they go out at night to avoid being burgled.

[Letters]

It's a real worry that you’re having a problem distinguishing the difference between courting and sexual assault/rape.
I'm not. You asked about our nature. I'm comparing our nature (millions of years of evolution) and our society (thousands of years of morals and laws)

It’s also funny to hear you use evolution to back up your argument. Genesis says nothing about our nature being likened to the animals. But we can side step that debate.
We can, but I don't believe Genesis to be a science book. To me it is revealing deeper truths.


There has to be a level of self-control.
Of course. I never argued differently.


If we were to talk about cases involving minors, we’re not going to talk about what the girl was wearing or make any excuses for a man’s ‘nature’ or what provoked him.
No, but it is not "natural" for men (or women) to be wanting to have sex with minors. Sex is about reproduction. In modern times women start menstruating much younger but historically that wasn't so, so in terms of what natural men shouldn't be wanting to have sex with minors. That is a completely different argument. On a side note, the age of consent is fairly arbitrary and varies from country to country.


Think about what you’re saying for second.

I have. I'm not clear what you're disagreeing with me about.

[Power n Glory]

No, but it is not "natural" for men (or women) to be wanting to have sex with minors. Sex is about reproduction. In modern times women start menstruating much younger but historically that wasn't so, so in terms of what natural men shouldn't be wanting to have sex with minors. That is a completely different argument. On a side note, the age of consent is fairly arbitrary and varies from country to country.

Where did you get that from? Minors were being married off way back when.



We can, but I don't believe Genesis to be a science book. To me it is revealing deeper truths.

What's the deeper truth? Either way we cut it, whether we believe man was made in the image of God or millions of years of evolution, both sides of the coin believe we should demonstrate self-control since we are not animals.

It’s all getting lost in the sauce but some pretty messed reasoning going on here.

[Letters]

The deeper truth that I think Genesis is claiming is that we are a creation and were created for a purpose. The nuts and bolts of how and when are for science to sort out.

We might not think of ourselves as animals but some of our behaviours do come from our animal past. Obviously we now have morals and don't just wallow in our own shit (well, mostly because of MrsL in my case), but things like the "fight or flight" response come from way back in our past.

And I didn't get it "from" anywhere, I thought it was quite well known that due to better nutrition or whatever girls start their periods earlier but since you asked I found this:
https://www.bustle.com/articles/114490-the-average-age-women-got-their-first-period-throughout-history

Yes, young girls were being married off hundreds of years ago, probably thousands. The idea of a what is a socially acceptable consent age has changed over time. But I'm talking about behaviours which come from much longer timescales.

You say my reasoning is "messed up" but once again have not been clear about what you disagree with me about.

[Power n Glory]

This is a funny conversation. You’re talking about what’s natural and historical for gender but then throw in evolution and how societal norms have changed over the years. If that’s what you lean on, couldn’t it be argued that what we’re seeing today and changes in how gender is considered is just a part evolution and not just some PC agenda? Not so sure about trying to marry evolution and Christianity together. One has ideas set in stone and the other is based on nature adapting to an environment.

[Letters]

couldn’t it be argued that what we’re seeing today and changes in how gender is considered is just a part evolution and not just some PC agenda?
I don't think so because there is no evolutionary pressure for these things. 2 genders is the best model for the continuation of life which is what drives evolution.
It's debatable whether we are still evolving, I'd imagine not or not in any major way simply because the whole survival of the fittest thing, which is what creates evolutionary pressure, no longer applies because of modern medicine and ethics which allow people to breed who back in the way would have died long before that was possible. Not saying that is a bad thing btw! :lol:

Christianity does have set in stone, quite literally #10commandments. But IMO it has little to say about the mechanics of how life developed. As I said I don't believe Genesis is intended to be read scientifically. Many Christians disagree with me but to me the evidence is pretty compelling for an old earth and some form of evolution.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think so because there is no evolutionary pressure for these things. 2 genders is the best model for the continuation of life which is what drives evolution.
It's debatable whether we are still evolving, I'd imagine not or not in any major way simply because the whole survival of the fittest thing, which is what creates evolutionary pressure, no longer applies because of modern medicine and ethics which allow people to breed who back in the way would have died long before that was possible. Not saying that is a bad thing btw! :lol:

Christianity does have set in stone, quite literally #10commandments. But IMO it has little to say about the mechanics of how life developed. As I said I don't believe Genesis is intended to be read scientifically. Many Christians disagree with me but to me the evidence is pretty compelling for an old earth and some form of evolution.

There is pressure. We’re overpopulated. I’ve heard theories about homosexuality being mother nature’s way of dealing with an over population. Theories on why more women are being born than men.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

At the risk of going off at a tangent - Homosexuality the evidence suggests is developmental rather than genetic, so when someone says they are born gay it's not strictly true.

Although there is little evidence that it's purely environmental otherwise Homosexuallty would not exist in places where it's proscribed. It can be incidental based on environment, thus the incident rates of homosexuality when people of the same sex are kept in close confinement together (like prison).

Going back to Rape, in terms of male on male and male on female the overriding element is that of violence, power and control. Some people derrive sexual satisfaction from exerting control over others. But equally it's not necessarily sexual at all - it's an act to assert dominance and make the victim feel weak and humiliated.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The major cause of homosexuality is gay people.

[Niall_Quinn]

The major cause of homosexuality is gay people.

Not only that, but studies have found that when you reduce the number of gay people, homosexuality reduces in direct proportion. There's a perfect correlation, in fact.

[Letters]

There is pressure. We’re overpopulated. I’ve heard theories about homosexuality being mother nature’s way of dealing with an over population. Theories on why more women are being born than men.

There is pressure but I'm not sure it's evolutionary pressure. People live in Dubai but they haven't adapted to the extreme climate, they've just got air-con everywhere.
With vaccination and modern medicine the survival of the fittest pressure isn't there any more, or nowhere near as much.

[GP]

In many ways, the Prequel Trilogy is better than the Original Trilogy.

[Thierrymon]

Dunkirk and Baby Driver were both excellent. Dunkirk was bloody tense and hard to watch at times.

[GP]

Kong Skull Island.

S'alright.

[Master Splinter]

Kong Skull Island.

S'alright.

I'm sure Kong kept changing in size in every scene.

Still, Kong :bow:.

[Xhaka Can’t]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MMiKyfd6hA0

[Master Splinter]

There's a Simpsons or Father Ted reference for everything.

[Letters]

http://newsthump.com/2017/08/02/emoji-movie-a-complete-pile-of-%F0%9F%92%A9-critics-confirm/

[GP]

I think Return of the Jedi is the worst Star Wars movie, along with Attack of the Clones.

Empire is the best, obviously, along with Revenge of the Sith and Rogue One.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think Return of the Jedi is the worst Star Wars movie, along with Attack of the Clones.

Empire is the best, obviously, along with Revenge of the Sith and Rogue One.

This is why you shouldn't think.

[GP]

It's objectively quite bad.

The whole Ewok thing. Boba Fett's death was so dumb. the guy is supposed to be the galaxy's most feared bounty hunter but he's dead because a gay robot bumped into him.

Empire is about a million times better.

[Letters]

https://youtu.be/KAOdjqyG37A

Whoa, this looks awesome!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Watched Guardians of the Galaxy vol 2

Not as funny or engaging as the first one. Plot was rather messy and incoherent

But still quite charming and amusing for the most part.

[Master Splinter]

Wenger will be older than Ego when he retires.

[Letters]

"IT"

Quite liked it. I have seen the original but don't remember it that well, new one is a good mix of creepy and some funny moments.

[Niall_Quinn]

So I decided it was time to watch Malcolm X.

I go to cartoon.hd, because I'm not paying for that shit.

Movie is there, I fire it up. Cast looks okay, suspicious lack of black characters though. Maybe they'll be using face paint? Movie starts and it's all about this exterminator guy. Peter Weller, I think his name is, guy from Robocop. Trundling around, exterminating bugs.

For some inexplicable reason I don't twig and carry on watching. 20 minutes in, when a giant bug crawls out of a box, I'm thinking, maybe this is not Malcolm X.

Fuuuuuuuuck.

[Thierrymon]

Mother! :blink:

Would not recommend. Super pretentious. I'm all for movies taking the piss out of religion but at least have some semblance of story in there too.

[GP]

Alien Covenant.

I quite liked that. Way better than the last one.

[GP]

Multipass!

[Niall_Quinn]

Multipass!

I would.

[GP]

I know.

[GP]

Gal Gadot is quite attractive.

[Niall_Quinn]

Dunkirk - the movie is a bigger disaster than the historical event.

[Niall_Quinn]

Snowden is now available on Netflix for those that haven't seen it yet.

It's dull as a film, but if you watch it through you should come away with some idea of just how big a pile of shit we are all in right now. You think this little web site isn't being monitored? Guess you were wrong about that then.

Anyway, it's a useful expose of what our civil "servants" get up to. For me, I thought the absolute fucking sub-human slimy residue at that shit farm GCHQ got off very lightly. There were hints, but that's about all.

Uncle Tom - Yes we can! Spy on every fucker on the planet.

[Letters]

When you say "monitored".
There isn't someone sitting there reading your messages, or mine.
If they are I bet they're pretty bleeding bored.

[GP]

When you say "monitored".
There isn't someone sitting there reading your messages, or mine.
If they are I bet they're pretty bleeding bored.

That would be a part-time job at best.

[Niall_Quinn]

When you say "monitored".
There isn't someone sitting there reading your messages, or mine.
If they are I bet they're pretty bleeding bored.

Of course not. Not even the members here are reading the messages. They are being stored away and cross-referenced should the messages ever need to be read in the future. It sounds like it escapes you just why that is so incredibly dangerous.

[Letters]

I just don't see how it has or ever will have any effect on my life. I post how I want, I go where I want, I don't feel anyone is "tracking" me by CCTV or GPS and even if they are it is having no effect on my life nor do I think it ever will. I guess it could in some distopian future but I think that unlike. These sorts of predictions have been being made for decades and I see nothing yet.

If you think this is dangerous then you need to explain why, what freedoms does it stop you enjoying.

[Niall_Quinn]

If I need to explain it to you then I won't actually be able to explain it, because we must both be operating under different perceptions of reality that are entirely incompatible. But, Snowden gives it a go in the movie, although with a bit of a sneer. Watch it, you might catch a glimmer of something.

[Niall_Quinn]

Also, just so you know, you're already living in the dystopian future. As a Christian it's literally quite unbelievable you don't realise that.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Blade runner 2049 :sleep:


Thought the first one was overrated garbage so I suspect this one will follow suit. :sleep:

[Niall_Quinn]

Blade runner 2049 :sleep:


Thought the first one was overrated garbage so I suspect this one will follow suit. :sleep:

Overrated garbage? Overrated maybe, but garbage?

I don't hold out much hope for a remake of a one-off film either. Bute surely there has to be at least one half decent film in 2017? Maybe this will be it.

[Power n Glory]

The sequel held it's weight. It's a bit too long but a worthy sequel. That's rare these days.

[Power n Glory]

Also, just so you know, you're already living in the dystopian future. As a Christian it's literally quite unbelievable you don't realise that.

I was about to say the same thing.

[Power n Glory]

I just don't see how it has or ever will have any effect on my life. I post how I want, I go where I want, I don't feel anyone is "tracking" me by CCTV or GPS and even if they are it is having no effect on my life nor do I think it ever will. I guess it could in some distopian future but I think that unlike. These sorts of predictions have been being made for decades and I see nothing yet.

If you think this is dangerous then you need to explain why, what freedoms does it stop you enjoying.

You may want to read Revelations again and do some research on the theories surrounding that book. As a Christian, this sort of thing should be on your radar. I can't understand how you feel it has no effect on your life. Surely someone in your circle says we're in end of days territory with what we're seeing in the world?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Speaking of Phillip K Dick inspired stuff has anyone watched the Electric Dreams series on Channel 4?

Worth a go?

[GP]

Yeah I saw the first 3 episodes. Not bad for sunday evening TV.

[Power n Glory]

Speaking of Phillip K Dick inspired stuff has anyone watched the Electric Dreams series on Channel 4?

Worth a go?

On my to watch list. I need watch through the 4OD service. Also need to finish off Black Mirrors on Netflix.

[Letters]

You may want to read Revelations again and do some research on the theories surrounding that book. As a Christian, this sort of thing should be on your radar. I can't understand how you feel it has no effect on your life. Surely someone in your circle says we're in end of days territory with what we're seeing in the world?

I don't pay much attention to theories around Revelation. Yes, I do know people who believe we are in the "end days". But Jesus was very clear about this: "no one knows the hour", He will return like "a thief in the night" and He actively warned us against worrying about things which appear to be signs of the end times. We could be in the end days of course but there have been "The End Of The World Is Nigh" placards for as long as there have been placards.

I don't see how increased surveillance has affected my life, no, and people who wring their hands about it can never give a concrete example of how it has affected theirs. NQ's reply is a perfect example, "if I need to explain it then I won't be able to explain it". Evasive and meaninglessness. Concrete example or stfu.

COULD the level of surveillance we are now under affect our freedoms? Of course, if we ever lived under an oppressive, Orwellian regime. But I think that extremely unlikely in this country. NQ may claim we already do but if so then I hope he would appreciate the irony of him freely doing so on a message board without a knock at the door or any other consequence. I don't feel the level of surveillance we have affects my freedom of movement or speech, if anyone feels it affects theirs then I'd be interested to know how. The worst I get is targeted advertising which is annoying but I'm not forced into buying anything, it's fairly benign, I'm not going to hide under my bed because I'm being offered products or services "they" may think I'm interested in because of past behaviour or buying patterns.

[Letters]

Also, just so you know, you're already living in the dystopian future. As a Christian it's literally quite unbelievable you don't realise that.

Dystopia:

"an imagined place or state in which everything is unpleasant or bad, typically a totalitarian or environmentally degraded one."

So no, not really. Fallen and imperfect, certainly, but not everything in the world or society is bad.

[GP]

not everything in the world or society is bad.

Name one thing that isn't

[Master Splinter]

Name one thing that isn't

Wenger.

[GP]

Wenger.

The creator himself goes without saying.

[Niall_Quinn]

The creator himself goes without saying.

Yes, true. But ALL the other shit is his fault.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't pay much attention to theories around Revelation. Yes, I do know people who believe we are in the "end days". But Jesus was very clear about this: "no one knows the hour", He will return like "a thief in the night" and He actively warned us against worrying about things which appear to be signs of the end times. We could be in the end days of course but there have been "The End Of The World Is Nigh" placards for as long as there have been placards.

I don't see how increased surveillance has affected my life, no, and people who wring their hands about it can never give a concrete example of how it has affected theirs. NQ's reply is a perfect example, "if I need to explain it then I won't be able to explain it". Evasive and meaninglessness. Concrete example or stfu.

COULD the level of surveillance we are now under affect our freedoms? Of course, if we ever lived under an oppressive, Orwellian regime. But I think that extremely unlikely in this country. NQ may claim we already do but if so then I hope he would appreciate the irony of him freely doing so on a message board without a knock at the door or any other consequence. I don't feel the level of surveillance we have affects my freedom of movement or speech, if anyone feels it affects theirs then I'd be interested to know how. The worst I get is targeted advertising which is annoying but I'm not forced into buying anything, it's fairly benign, I'm not going to hide under my bed because I'm being offered products or services "they" may think I'm interested in because of past behaviour or buying patterns.

That is your concrete answer FFS! :doh:

[Niall_Quinn]

Also, the Christian thing was an accusation, not an invitation to start going on about religion as if it is connected in some way to reality.

[Power n Glory]

I don't pay much attention to theories around Revelation. Yes, I do know people who believe we are in the "end days". But Jesus was very clear about this: "no one knows the hour", He will return like "a thief in the night" and He actively warned us against worrying about things which appear to be signs of the end times. We could be in the end days of course but there have been "The End Of The World Is Nigh" placards for as long as there have been placards.

I don't see how increased surveillance has affected my life, no, and people who wring their hands about it can never give a concrete example of how it has affected theirs. NQ's reply is a perfect example, "if I need to explain it then I won't be able to explain it". Evasive and meaninglessness. Concrete example or stfu.

COULD the level of surveillance we are now under affect our freedoms? Of course, if we ever lived under an oppressive, Orwellian regime. But I think that extremely unlikely in this country. NQ may claim we already do but if so then I hope he would appreciate the irony of him freely doing so on a message board without a knock at the door or any other consequence. I don't feel the level of surveillance we have affects my freedom of movement or speech, if anyone feels it affects theirs then I'd be interested to know how. The worst I get is targeted advertising which is annoying but I'm not forced into buying anything, it's fairly benign, I'm not going to hide under my bed because I'm being offered products or services "they" may think I'm interested in because of past behaviour or buying patterns.

Quite staggering that you don't see the connection. I don't agree with everything NQ says but I can see the connection on the problem with being too liberal and PC. For example, despite what's said in the Bible, I'm sure it will soon be illegal to preach against 'sin'. It doesn't look too far off. For example, I'm sure we'll soon see parents being accused of 'abuse' if they try to discourage their son from wearing a dress and high heels to school every morning because he wants to copy the drag queens seen on X Factor.

Muslims are being monitored now and considering the circumstances, it's understandable why. But I'm sure a few crazy extreme right-wing nuts from the Bible belt of America could spark something similar where you'd have to be careful what you say online and elsewhere.

[Marc Overmars]

https://youtu.be/Q0CbN8sfihY

:popcorn:

[GP]

OH SHIT!

This looks interesting as fuck!

[Niall_Quinn]

"I need someone... to show me my place in all this."

Right this way love, kitchen's right here.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Just went to see Blade Runner

Again not sure if I think it’s better than the original. Don’t even think comparing the two is far despite it being a direct sequel.

It stands up well though, think it’s definitely best thing I’ve seen Ryan Gosling in

I took the running theme of AI and the paradox of making someone more authentic and the illusion of free will to make them a better slave.

[Niall_Quinn]

Just remember, if you decide to spend time watching Security starring Antonio Banderas, it's time you can never get back.

[GP]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu9e410C__I

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Just remember, if you decide to spend time watching Security starring Antonio Banderas, it's time you can never get back.

There are certain films where you actually feel like writing to the producers to demand that time back

DOOM was one of those films

[GP]

Baby Driver :bow:

[Letters]

"Hidden Figures"

Thought it played a bit fast and loose with some of the facts but I can live with that in the name of entertainment.
Overall, not bad. Filled a couple of hours on the flight out here.

[Globalgunner]

Baby Driver :bow:

Heard a lot of good things about that one. A must watch, if I can find it

[Niall_Quinn]

"Hidden Figures"

Thought it played a bit fast and loose with some of the facts but I can live with that in the name of entertainment.
Overall, not bad. Filled a couple of hours on the flight out here.

Good educational film detailing how quirky but charming black women landed the first white male chauvinist pig on the moon.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Good educational film detailing how quirky but charming black women landed the first white male chauvinist pig on the moon.

We wuz doing maths and science and shiiiiit?

[Letters]

"Bleed For This"

Very good. Really enjoyed it. Didn't know much about the true story before I saw it.

[Letters]

"Wonder Woman"

Very disappointed. Watched it on the plane which I'd concede isn't the best way to watch such films, enjoyed all the back story bit on the island, after that it was standard stuff but very silly with plot holes you could drive a coach and horses through.
"Hydrogen gas? Our gas masks would be useless!"
Really? OK, I have two questions:
Since when can hydrogen crack glass and melt rubber and if you know immediately that is the effect then why are you making masks which melt in the presence of it?
And don't get me started about the "comedy sidekicks", the Scottish bloke whose only apparent skill is to sing badly, they'd known him for ages and didn't know he wasn't any good till they got there?
Oh and yeah, of course you can just drive in to a party of high level German officials by wearing a uniform and putting on a silly accent.

Would bang Gal Gadot though, obviously.

[Cripps]

Blade runner

Meh

Gosling played it well though

[Niall_Quinn]

Watched Everest again. It's a true story, in Hollywood terms. But I suspect there's at least a bit of truth in there.

Anyway, it's a cracking film and well worth the watch.

EDIT:

If you are at a place where you really, genuinely (and no bullshitting whatsoever) know what it means to make a real effort, if you know what it takes to snap out of the easy option and take the hard option because, fuck, your life depends on it... and even then, well the act of that guy (no spoiler) getting up and walking down that mountain is awesome (in the true sense of the word). Just an ordinary guy.

If you are a cosseted fuck who has never faced adversity in your whole damn life - well I'm pretty jealous.

[Cripps]

:whacky:Jigsaw coming out this week

[Letters]

The Age of Adeline

Was OK, I suppose. Could have done without the pseudo-science stuff, those parts made it feel like a bit of a kids film.

[Thierrymon]

Thor Ragnarok :good:

Taika Waititi did a great job.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Watched Everest again. It's a true story, in Hollywood terms. But I suspect there's at least a bit of truth in there.

Anyway, it's a cracking film and well worth the watch.

EDIT:

If you are at a place where you really, genuinely (and no bullshitting whatsoever) know what it means to make a real effort, if you know what it takes to snap out of the easy option and take the hard option because, fuck, your life depends on it... and even then, well the act of that guy (no spoiler) getting up and walking down that mountain is awesome (in the true sense of the word). Just an ordinary guy.

If you are a cosseted fuck who has never faced adversity in your whole damn life - well I'm pretty jealous.

That was very heartfelt.....made me cry