Would finishing 5th be so bad?

[Joker]

There was an interesting article by Goodplaya questioning whether if we do qualify for the Champions League, it will merely paper over the cracks:

http://www.goodplaya.com/blog/a-part-of-me-wonders-if-that-equaliser-was-a-blessing-in-disguise/

He's right, the club seems to be stagnating at the moment, with little ambition to do anything beyond the stated target at the start of the season. If we do get 3rd, I can see Wenger saying we have done extremely well despite the turbulent start to the season (which was entirely his and Gazidis' fault for failing to properly replace Nasri and Cesc even though they must have known both were going to leave early in the summer) and therefore massive surgery is not required. He's already said there may not be massive movement in the transfer window, which sounds as if he's preparing us for more disappointment in terms of new players coming in.

Perhaps a year where we fail to qualify for the Champions League will force the club to ask deep searching questions about our ambitions. Maybe it will make us realise that when setting your targets low, you'll end up doing the bare minimum to achieve those targets which can eventually result in you failing to make those targets anyway.

Yes, you could argue that it will be financially catastrophic but I'm sure Gazidis said that there are contingencies in place in case we don't qualify for the Champions League, so I doubt it will leave us financially crippled. Others will say we'll fail to bring in top quality players, but when in the recent past have we bought in top quality players even though we were in the Champions League? I wouldn't call Gervinho, Squillaci, Chamakh, Santos, Park, Bischoff, Silvestre etc top quality.

If we do end up in the Europa League, and end up winning it, maybe it'll generate that winning mentality that has been so severely lacking in our team for several years, and which explains our end of season collapses and cup exits. Having said all this though, it's probable that if we do qualify for the Europa, Wenger will simply treat it like the FA Cup/Carling Cup.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I just don't want to finish below Spurs and can't see past that.

But I take a similar view over the same old same old should we qualify for the CL.

[KSE Comedy Club]

From the position we are in now, yes I would be disappointed.

[Marc Overmars]

It would be a giant step back for the club.

[Xhaka Can’t]

And for mankind.

[Ernesto]

I just can't bring myself to "wish" for us to finish outside the top 4, in the small hope that it may bring big change. It seems a little masochistic.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

There was an interesting article by Goodplaya questioning whether if we do qualify for the Champions League, it will merely paper over the cracks:

http://www.goodplaya.com/blog/a-part-of-me-wonders-if-that-equaliser-was-a-blessing-in-disguise/

He's right, the club seems to be stagnating at the moment, with little ambition to do anything beyond the stated target at the start of the season. If we do get 3rd, I can see Wenger saying we have done extremely well despite the turbulent start to the season (which was entirely his and Gazidis' fault for failing to properly replace Nasri and Cesc even though they must have known both were going to leave early in the summer) and therefore massive surgery is not required. He's already said there may not be massive movement in the transfer window, which sounds as if he's preparing us for more disappointment in terms of new players coming in.

Perhaps a year where we fail to qualify for the Champions League will force the club to ask deep searching questions about our ambitions. Maybe it will make us realise that when setting your targets low, you'll end up doing the bare minimum to achieve those targets which can eventually result in you failing to make those targets anyway.

Yes, you could argue that it will be financially catastrophic but I'm sure Gazidis said that there are contingencies in place in case we don't qualify for the Champions League, so I doubt it will leave us financially crippled. Others will say we'll fail to bring in top quality players, but when in the recent past have we bought in top quality players even though we were in the Champions League? I wouldn't call Gervinho, Squillaci, Chamakh, Santos, Park, Bischoff, Silvestre etc top quality.

If we do end up in the Europa League, and end up winning it, maybe it'll generate that winning mentality that has been so severely lacking in our team for several years, and which explains our end of season collapses and cup exits. Having said all this though, it's probable that if we do qualify for the Europa, Wenger will simply treat it like the FA Cup/Carling Cup.

No it won't change anything, the board will still be the board and the manager will still be the manager.

If we finish 5th from where we are now then it is bad at least we should finish is 3/4th.

their is nothing to say we'd go and win the Europa league even if we'd have a better chance to win it.

Id not be too dissapointed if i knew things would change for the better but i doubt they will.

[Syn]

It is probably a short-sighted view but, from the fans' point of view, we don't really see the financial benefits from CL revenue. If we were attracting top players and making some £20m signings on big names then I could see the impact. But as it is, we tend to go for UEFA Cup standard names; these £10m Gervinho signings can be good...but it's not likely to be a game changer.

Newcastle aren't in the CL and they've managed to attract 2 good strikers. That's what I think we'd continue to do even if we was not in the CL.

I would enjoy watching us the Europa League - even more so if we get far. But the CL is a status that suggests you're a top club. And I even missed our participation in the Quarters this year. Watching the group stage matches next year would be far less exciting for me if we weren't in it. I know we don't have much chance of winning it, but watching us play at the highest level is what it's all about.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It is probably a short-sighted view but, from the fans' point of view, we don't really see the financial benefits from CL revenue. If we were attracting top players and making some £20m signings on big names then I could see the impact. But as it is, we tend to go for UEFA Cup standard names; these £10m Gervinho signings can be good...but it's not likely to be a game changer.

Newcastle aren't in the CL and they've managed to attract 2 good strikers. That's what I think we'd continue to do even if we was not in the CL.

I would enjoy watching us the Europa League - even more so if we get far. But the CL is a status that suggests you're a top club. And I even missed our participation in the Quarters this year. Watching the group stage matches next year would be far less exciting for me if we weren't in it. I know we don't have much chance of winning it, but watching us play at the highest level is what it's all about.


:gp:

[Özim]

In terms of revenue obviously it's a bad thing, but as for the rest I don't think it's so bad.

The CL is all very good but I can't say I enjoy us just making up the numbers, which is in effect exactly what we do every year, we do have a hope of winning it, not because we have no chance of competing but because we refuse to sign the quality we'd really need. The players that make all the difference are the top quality players in these big game situations and a sadly we really barely have any.

In a sense the Europa League would be more enjoyable as I think we'd have a much better chance of doing well, my real hope would be that dropping out of the CL would be the shock the club needs, but sadly I feel that's only going to come if the money dries up which seems unlikely.

The sad thing about our situation at the moment is that although we do OK overally by being well placed in the league, we have in reality no chance of success, there are teams further down in the league thta have a greater chance (as has been proven by some clubs cup successes). We've actually had teams that have been placed lower down in the league but that genuinely had a chance of picking up other trophies (like in the Graham days).

[Marc Overmars]

I personally think we can kiss goodbye to RVP if we miss out on CL football. Losing RVP would be the final nail in the coffin IMO, all the big name assests would have been stripped and I think the fans and more importantly the players would be utterly crestfallen to lose someone as important as him. So for that reason alone I cannot possibly see any benefits to finishing 5th (or even 4th if we're going to bank on a Bayern win, it's too risky). I've got a feeling we'll finish 4th as well so we'll be in limbo until the CL final.

I have no doubt the club will continue running as it is, with or without CL football. Everything is ad-hoc, every penny is counted and I'm sure there is a contingency plan for everything.

As Sin mentions above, it's a matter of status with the CL. If we ever have any designs of becoming a successful, trophy-winning club again, Arsenal needs to remain in the CL and recieve all the kudos that goes with it.

[Özim]

IMO RVP would be a fool to stay with us, I would love him to stay as he's a top player and arguably our only top player, but he's 29 and in the latter stages of his career and has been with us years with barely a thing to show for it, I think as a player you have to have ambitions to pick up some winners medals at some point (particularly top players) otherwise what do you have to show for your talent?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

IMO RVP would be a fool to stay with us, I would love him to stay as he's a top player and arguably our only top player, but he's 29 and in the latter stages of his career and has been with us years with barely a thing to show for it, I think as a player you have to have ambitions to pick up some winners medals at some point (particularly top players) otherwise what do you have to show for your talent?

Rubbish, it would make him a loyal player not a fool. Yes he desrves to win things but if he beileves he can win things with us then i don't see what wrong with that.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I personally think we can kiss goodbye to RVP if we miss out on CL football. Losing RVP would be the final nail in the coffin IMO, all the big name assests would have been stripped and I think the fans and more importantly the players would be utterly crestfallen to lose someone as important as him. So for that reason alone I cannot possibly see any benefits to finishing 5th (or even 4th if we're going to bank on a Bayern win, it's too risky). I've got a feeling we'll finish 4th as well so we'll be in limbo until the CL final.

I have no doubt the club will continue running as it is, with or without CL football. Everything is ad-hoc, every penny is counted and I'm sure there is a contingency plan for everything.

As Sin mentions above, it's a matter of status with the CL. If we ever have any designs of becoming a successful, trophy-winning club again, Arsenal needs to remain in the CL and recieve all the kudos that goes with it.

Thats one of the reasons id want us to get it, if he left then id be not bothred with us being in the El tbh.

[Özim]

Rubbish, it would make him a loyal player not a fool. Yes he desrves to win things but if he beileves he can win things with us then i don't see what wrong with that.
Depends how you look at it, loyal yes but at the end of his career he'll have nothing to show for it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Hmmm, would I rather see Arsenal finish 3rd or 5th. Well that's a really fucking hard one to answer. I'm going with 3rd.

As for not being able to compete in the CL, if the chavs can get to the final then anyone can. Including us. Then there's the £30mill compared to £5.50 for being in the EuroDisney Cup and even if we don't see the benefit directly because those thieving ****s in the boardroom grab it all, at least we don't have to flog players so the pigs can gorge themselves. Agree, RvP is out of here if we lose out on the CL.

So actually it isn't a too hard a question to answer at all. Apart from the fact I ALWAYS want us to finish as high as possible, there's no benefit whatsoever to missing out on CL footie.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Hmmm, would I rather see Arsenal finish 3rd or 5th. Well that's a really fucking hard one to answer. I'm going with 3rd.

As for not being able to compete in the CL, if the chavs can get to the final then anyone can. Including us. Then there's the £30mill compared to £5.50 for being in the EuroDisney Cup and even if we don't see the benefit directly because those thieving ****s in the boardroom grab it all, at least we don't have to flog players so the pigs can gorge themselves. Agree, RvP is out of here if we lose out on the CL.

So actually it isn't a too hard a question to answer at all. Apart from the fact I ALWAYS want us to finish as high as possible, there's no benefit whatsoever to missing out on CL footie.

Once again like always NQ your bang on the money.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Depends how you look at it, loyal yes but at the end of his career he'll have nothing to show for it.

Maybe, Maybe not.

[Özim]

Hmmm, would I rather see Arsenal finish 3rd or 5th. Well that's a really fucking hard one to answer. I'm going with 3rd.

As for not being able to compete in the CL, if the chavs can get to the final then anyone can. Including us. Then there's the £30mill compared to £5.50 for being in the EuroDisney Cup and even if we don't see the benefit directly because those thieving ****s in the boardroom grab it all, at least we don't have to flog players so the pigs can gorge themselves. Agree, RvP is out of here if we lose out on the CL.

So actually it isn't a too hard a question to answer at all. Apart from the fact I ALWAYS want us to finish as high as possible, there's no benefit whatsoever to missing out on CL footie.
We have no chance of winning, this team has no bottle that's how Wenger has brought them up, when it gets tough we bottle it....7 years is proof of that.

We'll never win the CL under Wenger and have no chance at all, we don't have the players the experience or the quality. The Chavs have much more experienced players who've been there and done that...that's what separates them for us.

[Niall_Quinn]

We have no chance of winning, this team has no bottle that's how Wenger has brought them up, when it gets tough we bottle it....7 years is proof of that.

We'll never win the CL under Wenger and have no chance at all, we don't have the players the experience or the quality. The Chavs have much more experienced players who've been there and done that...that's what separates them for us.

The width of a crossbar and a couple of dodgy refereeing decisions is all it takes. Quality is pretty shit across the board, it's not just us. Too much money in football these days and not enough football.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The width of a crossbar and a couple of dodgy refereeing decisions is all it takes. Quality is pretty shit across the board, it's not just us. Too much money in football these days and not enough football.

:gp:

You always have a chance if your in the thing, may not be big chance but a chance none the less and its whether you take that chance.

[Cripps_orig]

No

[The Verminator]

When you're in it you've always got a chance to win it, so not qualifying for the Champs League would not be good.

[fakeyank]

If finishing 5th means us having major changes for the positive at our club, hell yes!

[Niall_Quinn]

No

Sleep

[Kano]

If finishing 5th means us having major changes for the positive at our club, hell yes!
it wouldn't mean that at all, in fact they'd be no way of knowing if it would. it alls sounds nice and simple in theory but in practice could also seriously fuck up the club far worse than the current situation. how many would say not so bad now and scream blue murder in the when drawing away in the third group stage match or something?

[Cripps_orig]

SleepIn a bit

[Slacker]

I voted yes but obviously don't want that. We'd be better off not being in Europe full stop if we were out of the CL. We'd be able to concentrate on being in serious contention next season.

I dreamt the other night we were 0-0 up until 88 mins. The game had gone by in a flash and we'd missed a hatful of chances. Then Chesney and Gibbs conspired together to set a WBA midfielder up from abot 25 yards and he drilled it into the bottom left corner and the Baggies boinged <gloom>.

Dreams come true at times but please not this one.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

it wouldn't mean that at all, in fact they'd be no way of knowing if it would. it alls sounds nice and simple in theory but in practice could also seriously fuck up the club far worse than the current situation. how many would say not so bad now and scream blue murder in the when drawing away in the third group stage match or something?

:gp:

Anyone who belives us finish out the top 4 will be better for us or will make the club see sense is deluding themselves.

[Coney]

I can't face the idea of the amount of shit we would get from the spud fans if we do not finish 3rd. I also do not want to have to wait for the chav result to see if we are going to get CL football if we finish 4th. I don't mind so much waiting for the chav result to see if we have a couple of CL games in August, though 3rd with the chavs crapping out would be nice. We've had to qualify for the CL for the last couple of years and it can't help the start to our season.

If we are keeping RvP - and I am pretty sure we are - and add Podolski, clear a few bits of dross (which Wenger has hinted we are going to do) replacing them with a couple of fresh players (with a bit of experience, please) then I think we could get off to a decent start this time round as long as we can avoid this qualifying crap.

But 5th? OK, we will survive but it would be a shit end to the season.

[Coney]

Oh - and as for the question. I'd rather the EL than nothing, but it would be disappointing. Don't we also end up playing more games in the EL? If so, I'd rather drop it if it meant a better crack at the PL and FA Cup.

[Marc Overmars]

Oh - and as for the question. I'd rather the EL than nothing, but it would be disappointing. Don't we also end up playing more games in the EL? If so, I'd rather drop it if it meant a better crack at the PL and FA Cup.

Why?

We'd only fuck up in them too.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Arsene Wenger last night tried to break bad news gently to expectant Arsenal fans by claiming the Europa League is “fantastic.”

Wenger takes Arsenal to West Brom tomorrow with Tottenham and Newcastle breathing down their necks and only victory and third place will guarantee a Champions League spot.

And it was almost as if Wenger wanted to lay the groundwork for an almighty letdown as he warned it would be harder to keep Robin van Persie if they do not reach the Champions League and Arsenal will not spend big this summer.

The Europa League has been derided as a poor relation to the Champions League because it is played on a Thursday night, Tottenham even fielded a second string line-up this season and other clubs see it as an inconvenience.

But Wenger said: “The Europa League final was a fantastic game. Atletico Madrid against Athletic Bilbao was fantastic to watch, much better than many Champions League games.

“Personally, I don’t feel it’s a useless competition. What’s a useless competition for you? For me, a good competition is when you see two good teams play a good game. I watched Bilbao and Atletico Madrid and I watched the whole game, didn’t miss a second.

“You see a fantastic football team. That’s what competition has to produce - fantastic football games. There are some boring Champions League games but of course you want to be in the Champions League.

“When you play Thursday night and Sunday it’s exactly the same as Wednesday night and Saturday. If you ask me if we prefer the Champions League to Europa League then you are completely right.

“We want to be in the Champions League, we don’t want to be in the Europa League. You play where you have to and it’s better to play there than not at all.”



http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-boss-arsene-wenger-refuses-828790

Wumger will be happy for us to be in the EPL.

[Coney]

There are some boring Champions League games but of course you want to be in the Champions League.

“When you play Thursday night and Sunday it’s exactly the same as Wednesday night and Saturday. If you ask me if we prefer the Champions League to Europa League then you are completely right.

“We want to be in the Champions League, we don’t want to be in the Europa League. You play where you have to and it’s better to play there than not at all.”



No problem with that. He'd rather the CL than the EL. Anyone would think he'd rather be in with a chance of winning some kind of trophy. Oh no - I can't say that as it is against GW lore.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

No problem with that. He'd rather the CL than the EL. Anyone would think he'd rather be in with a chance of winning some kind of trophy. Oh no - I can't say that as it is against GW lore.

GW does not have a View :coffee:

[cricketsi]

People on GW do tend to be fucking lazy posters though.

[Injury Time]

People on GW do tend to be fucking lazy posters though.
only on GW though, everywhere else they give it 110% :sulk:

[Xhaka Can’t]

But Wenger said: “The Europa League final was a fantastic game. Atletico Madrid against Athletic Bilbao was fantastic to watch, much better than many Champions League games.


5th Place Trophy!

WWTFPT@TH :scarf:

[Marc Overmars]

:lol:

I'm sure if we finished 20th he'd try and spin that.

Relegation trophy. :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:lol:

I'm sure if we finished 20th he'd try and spin that.

Relegation trophy. :bow:

:haha:

[Xhaka Can’t]

:lol:

I'm sure if we finished 20th he'd try and spin that.

Relegation trophy. :bow:

I'm fairly sure we'd only get a Shield for that.

And perhaps a commemorative medal.