Do you want Wenger sacked as manager?

[Joker]

There was a poll done a while back, but now that the season's over, I wonder how people's opinions have changed (if they have changed).

[Marc Overmars]

I don't think he deserves to be sacked, I think that would be quite disrespectful considering he's not doing THAT bad a job.

However I do feel the time is right for a change but I understand he's not going anywhere until 2014 at the earliest, so that's why this never ending cycle of stagnation is very frustrating.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Hmm, I still don't think he is giving us the best chance of success but then I wouldn't want us to shoot our bolt and put us in a situation where a better replacement won't be able to come.

And at the moment, I think that would probably be the case.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Do I want a managerial change? Yep

Do I think he should be sacked for delivering what the Board wants? Nope.

[Özim]

100% yes and he can take the board with him as well, amazed at how quikcly people's opinions change in this place to be honest, he's a cat with 9 lives.

There's nothing about him I like these days, hate the way he BS's all the time, hate the way he seems to have no tactics and his team pretty much plays the same way regardless of the opposition, hate his passing football, hate his substitutions, don't think much of his ideals and other than the odd decent signing his transfer activity and stingyness are annoying, also hate the way he thinks 4th place is an amazing achievement and how he settles for this.

Should have quit the club soon after 2005 IMO, he'd have been a legend then, he's totally screwed that up in my eyes now and been in reality has shown he's not that great a manager after all.

[Özim]

I don't think he deserves to be sacked, I think that would be quite disrespectful considering he's not doing THAT bad a job.

However I do feel the time is right for a change but I understand he's not going anywhere until 2014 at the earliest, so that's why this never ending cycle of stagnation is very frustrating.
Let's relieve him of his duties then, or send him upstairs as long as he has nothing to do with the playing side of the club.

[Cripps_orig]

As poor a manager as i think Wenger is these days, there is a part of me that doesnt want to see him get sacked.

What he gave us from 96-05 was the best time ever as a gooner and that will stay for me til the end of time and i think he should be given the respect of not being sacked and letting him walk on his own accord.

Of course, if he doesnt walk this summer then sack the **** tbh

[Özim]

Let's be honest, he'll never walk of his own accord, not on 7 million a year...that only leaves one option really.

If he wants to walk then great, but we all know he won't.

[Letters]

You think a poor manager would have finished 3rd this year?

I don't think many managers in the world could have seen his two best midfielders leave, make some panic buys and still finish 3rd. That said, why did last summer happen? Wenger said he could write a book about it. I hope he does one day, I'd love to read it. I don't believe the mess last summer was all his fault but he's not blameless either. There are some more encouraging signs this summer - doing business early, trying to bolster the squad and show a bit of ambition. But we have to sort out the van Persie situation, we can't let that rumble on all summer and see him leave in August when it's too late to sign replacements.

The opposition fans I talk to just can't believe the way Arsenal fans berate Wenger. Several clubs have spent a huge amount of money trying to leapfrog us and repeatedly failed. City have succeeded of course but chuck a billion quid at any PL club and they'd want to be finishing above us. How much did 'King Kenny' spend? One league cup, an awful league season and the sack. Top 4 should not be the limit of our ambition. I don't believe it is, although it is the number one priority for Wenger and the board and the reality is in the modern game that has to be our priority. The money and prestige of being in the CL is just too important to dismiss. We should be winning trophies here and there but the achievement of finishing in the CL places every single year for 15 years should not be dismissed. But the failure to win trophies shouldn't be overlooked either.

In brief: no, he shouldn't be sacked. The idea of sacking a manager who finished 3rd behind Utd, who have the best manager around, and a side who bought the title is ludicrous.

[Syn]

The opposition fans I talk to just can't believe the way Arsenal fans berate Wenger.

The same. But it's one of those that you don't give the WUMmy things he does a second thought unless you watch Arsenal every game.

I would like a change of manager but I want Wenger to leave himself. But I haven't given it much thought because we all know it's not happening.

[Özim]

You think a poor manager would have finished 3rd this year?

I don't think many managers in the world could have seen his two best midfielders leave, make some panic buys and still finish 3rd. That said, why did last summer happen? Wenger said he could write a book about it. I hope he does one day, I'd love to read it. I don't believe the mess last summer was all his fault but he's not blameless either. There are some more encouraging signs this summer - doing business early, trying to bolster the squad and show a bit of ambition. But we have to sort out the van Persie situation, we can't let that rumble on all summer and see him leave in August when it's too late to sign replacements.

The opposition fans I talk to just can't believe the way Arsenal fans berate Wenger. Several clubs have spent a huge amount of money trying to leapfrog us and repeatedly failed. City have succeeded of course but chuck a billion quid at any PL club and they'd want to be finishing above us. How much did 'King Kenny' spend? One league cup, an awful league season and the sack. Top 4 should not be the limit of our ambition. I don't believe it is, although it is the number one priority for Wenger and the board and the reality is in the modern game that has to be our priority. The money and prestige of being in the CL is just too important to dismiss. We should be winning trophies here and there but the achievement of finishing in the CL places every single year for 15 years should not be dismissed. But the failure to win trophies shouldn't be overlooked either.

In brief: no, he shouldn't be sacked. The idea of sacking a manager who finished 3rd behind Utd, who have the best manager around, and a side who bought the title is ludicrous.
I said he's not that great a manager and he isn't, top managers don't go 7 years without success I'm afraid...3rd/4th place is all very good but it's pretty meaningless in any way other than financially.

The opposition fans, well yes cos the grass is always greener on the other side, I'd love to see how they'd feel in our position if their club basically has no chance of ever winning anything, 3rd place is all very good but not if it means giving up any chance of success anywhere else which is what it basically means for us.

It's not ludicrous to sack a manager who's been at a top club and has won nothing in 7 years, he's failed at every level in terms of success, his side have even been beaten by inferior sides, we've seen some of the worst beatings in Arsenal's history under him as well and in recent years' it's got worse. The 3rd place was good but let's be honest here, Spurs bottled it big team and the Redknapp for England thing definitely unsettled them as the bad run seemed to start around then....so we had our fair share of luck there.

[Letters]

I said he's not that great a manager and he isn't top, managers don't go 7 years without success I'm afraid...3rd/4th place is all very good but it's pretty meaningless in any way other than financially.
Unfortunately in the modern game the finances are the most important thing. We can't do what we did in the 'thoroughly enjoyable' 92/93 season and finish mid-table at the expense of the cups. Liverpool did that this year and their season has been, in your words, a car crash. Had they won the FA Cup Final then that would have mitigated it and Dalglish would probably have kept his job. Fine lines.

Being in the CL is not just about finance anyway. It's about the prestige of the club, making us attractive to players, giving us an international profile. We tend not to go in for the very top players these days - it's not easy to when City, Chelsea and ManYoo can all outspend us - but it still makes is more attractive to the players we are after.


The opposition fans, well yes cos the grass is always greener on the other side, I'd love to see how they'd feel in our position if their club basically has no chance of ever winning anything
Most clubs don't have a chance of winning anything. Ever. The idea that we don't have a chance is ludicrous. We've been in several Cup Finals and loads of semi-finals since we last won something. And we've had a couple of title challenges too. We've failed to finish the job on each occasion but we surely have more chance of winning something than fans of clubs who never get into those positions.


It's not ludicrous to sack a manager who's been at a top club and has won nothing in 7 years, he's failed at every level in terms of success
The first part of that is true, the 2nd is nonsense. You don't see 3rd place as success. The whole football world disagrees with you. As I said clubs spend big to try and achieve that. Syn called Spurs collapse way before the England thing came up. Their first game after the England thing they battered Newcastle 5-0, it was only after that they collapsed. As you say, they bottled it. We put a great run together and won the 'must win' games in the run in when we needed to. Dismiss it as luck all you like, you'd be the first to point to the gap between us and the top two and say "the league table never lies" but you dismiss our achievement of finishing 3rd as 'luck' because otherwise you'd have to give Wenger some credit which you can't bring yourself to do.

[Özim]

Unfortunately in the modern game the finances are the most important thing. We can't do what we did in the 'thoroughly enjoyable' 92/93 season and finish mid-table at the expense of the cups. Liverpool did that this year and their season has been, in your words, a car crash. Had they won the FA Cup Final then that would have mitigated it and Dalglish would probably have kept his job. Fine lines.

We won 2 cups in 92/93 had Liverpool done the same it would have been a decent season, the problem is that they only won the CC and had a bad league season, fine lines yes but Kenny got sacked because of this, somehow Wenger gets away with it season after season.



Being in the CL is not just about finance anyway. It's about the prestige of the club, making us attractive to players, giving us an international profile. We tend not to go in for the very top players these days - it's not easy to when City, Chelsea and ManYoo can all outspend us - but it still makes is more attractive to the players we are after.


Most clubs don't have a chance of winning anything. Ever. The idea that we don't have a chance is ludicrous. We've been in several Cup Finals and loads of semi-finals since we last won something. And we've had a couple of title challenges too. We've failed to finish the job on each occasion but we surely have more chance of winning something than fans of clubs who never get into those positions.

Prestige, for a competition that allows 4 clubs from certain countries into it? The competition is a joke IMO and only the money makes the marketing boys see it as anything but that, no competition should allow 4 teams from a country into it, especially when 3 have won nothing. We don't sign any top players so I'm not sure what attracting players has anything to do with, the players we sign tend to be unknowns who are decent value, they'd sign regardless of whether we got into the CL or not.

We're not most clubs, historically we're one of the biggest clubs in England, we had success before Wenger as well, in addition we have a big stadium and money to spend...not many clubs have this luxury. As for the rich owners, as I've said before, I feel you can compete but you need to spend some money, if you buy the right players and spend on quality you can be successful. Man U would have won this year if not for an incharacteristic collapse and their team isn't really that good.

As for the cup finals etc, these fine lines are fine lines we always seem to be on the wrong side of, this tells me it's down to more than bad luck, I'd put it down to problems in the team and management, there's plenty of games we should have won but everytime we've pretty much failed to...that's says all it needs to IMO, once or twice might be bad luck but not the amount of times it's happened to us. This point is critical as it shows we'll never win anything under Wenger again IMO, other clubs fans patience would soon run out if they were stuck in the same boat, making up the numbers every season isn't fun, as I've said before what Wenger has done is taken away any hope of us winning something.



The first part of that is true, the 2nd is nonsense. You don't see 3rd place as success. The whole football world disagrees with you. As I said clubs spend big to try and achieve that. Syn called Spurs collapse way before the England thing came up. Their first game after the England thing they battered Newcastle 5-0, it was only after that they collapsed. As you say, they bottled it. We put a great run together and won the 'must win' games in the run in when we needed to. Dismiss it as luck all you like, you'd be the first to point to the gap between us and the top two and say "the league table never lies" but you dismiss our achievement of finishing 3rd as 'luck' because otherwise you'd have to give Wenger some credit which you can't bring yourself to do.
Spurs bottled it no question and the Redknapp thing certainly had a big impact, before this they were in great form and we had no hope of catching them, this won't happen every season that's for sure, we very nearly bottled it again ourselves but Spurs just blew it for a 2nd time with two games to go.

[Kano]

we need a change now but a lot rests on the rvp situation. if he leaves then under no circumstances can we afford to lose the manager too - that would be august/sept 2011 all over again.

as MO said earlier in the thread, he won't be going until the end of next season at the earliest anyway.

[Kano]

I said he's not that great a manager and he isn't, top managers don't go 7 years without success I'm afraid...3rd/4th place is all very good but it's pretty meaningless in any way other than financially.
he is no longer among the very elite in the game but he is still a very good manager. you are being far too dismissive by saying that 3/4 finishes every seasons means he's not that great. by saying that, that means every other manager and team are very poor - the sort of stuff that players and people inside the game would not agree with.

3/4 is not a trophy of course and no need to shout from the roof tops about it but it still takes an awful lot of talent to maintain that position in the modern world of football, where very few advantages are found outside of having money. where once only certain teams had the training, diet, tactic and worldwide player knowledge along with the better players as the edge, that information is now common place on every football continent and to stay so close to the top every season requires a lot.

[Power n Glory]

Sacked, steps down, retires....don't care. I just want a change in management. He'll be remembered as a legend.

[Letters]

Prestige, for a competition that allows 4 clubs from certain countries into it? The competition is a joke IMO and only the money makes the marketing boys see it as anything but that, no competition should allow 4 teams from a country into it, especially when 3 have won nothing.

I agree, but whatever you think of the competition it's where top clubs want to be. Why are clubs spending big to try and get there? 109 million people watched the final last year. More than the Superbowl ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/8490351.stm ). And yes, I know we weren't in the final but the whole competition is massively high profile. Too high profile IMO to the detriment of other comptitions but it is what it is.


We don't sign any top players so I'm not sure what attracting players has anything to do with, the players we sign tend to be unknowns who are decent value, they'd sign regardless of whether we got into the CL or not.

I'm not sure that's true. Our more recent signings have been more established players and some of the players we're being linked with right now are not kids. Our CL qualification will undoubtably be a factor in their decisions. Also, I've no idea if RvP will sign a new contract but I tell you one thing for free - had we not qualified for the CL we'd have had no chance of keeping him. CL qualification should not be the limit of our ambitions but its importance shouldn't be underestimated. As I've said clubs are spending a LOT of money to try and achieve it and often failing.


We're not most clubs, historically we're one of the biggest clubs in England, we had success before Wenger

True but till the late 80s our successes were few and far between. We had the period of dominance in the 30s but after that we were a big club but didn't win a lot.
From 1950 to 1989 we won 3 titles (1953, 1971 & 1989). 3 FA Cups (1950, 1971, 1979) and 1 League Cup (1987). That's 7 trophies. In 40 years. Between 1953 and 1971 we won bugger all. We've always been a big club but we've not always been dripping with trophies.
Graham made us successful although the later years were bloody boring. Nice to win the trophies, not so nice to have a season ticket and go to most league games which were awful and we rarely won. Wenger took us to a whole new level - not only exceeding Graham's period of success but doing it with a style of football the like of which most Gooners never thought they'd see Arsenal play.


As for the cup finals etc, these fine lines are fine lines we always seem to be on the wrong side of, this tells me it's down to more than bad luck, I'd put it down to problems in the team and management, there's plenty of games we should have won but everytime we've pretty much failed to...that's says all it needs to IMO, once or twice might be bad luck but not the amount of times it's happened to us. This point is critical as it shows we'll never win anything under Wenger again IMO, other clubs fans patience would soon run out if they were stuck in the same boat, making up the numbers every season isn't fun, as I've said before what Wenger has done is taken away any hope of us winning something.
I agree with a lot of that and I do think Wenger should have been sacked for the lack of trophies. On the other hand it's bloody minded to deny him any credit for us finishing in the CL spots every single year. Fergie is the only other manager to have done it for any length of time and lots of other managers have spent big trying and failed. That should tell you a lot about Wenger too.

[Özim]

Interesting you mention Graham as he was on TV earlier today saying he was just interested in winning, that was his goal. I believe that's the problem with Wenger, he's not just interested in winning, he wants to do things a certain way and if you win doing this way then great, if however you don't then at least we have done things the way he believes they should be done.

In that sense he isn't a winner.

[fakeyank]

Ideally AW would resign himself. He has not stood up to his own standards and he sounds just like a CEO or board member speaking. For the sake of what he achieved with us a long time back, I hope he leaves the managerial post on a good note. If he continues the same level of WUMery as last seasons (very likely) then he should be sacked immediately!

[Letters]

I believe that's the problem with Wenger, he's not just interested in winning
Utter rubbish.

And Graham managed in a different era where a side could finish mid-table one year and in the top few the next and there was no great pressure to finish higher up the league if you weren't going to win the thing.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

There was a poll done a while back, but now that the season's over, I wonder how people's opinions have changed (if they have changed).

Not bothered each way tbh.

But the board won't sack him so the thread is irrelevant anyways.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Let's be honest, he'll never walk of his own accord, not on 7 million a year...that only leaves one option really.

If he wants to walk then great, but we all know he won't.

Well seen as the board say they will never sack him he can only walk anyways. what he gets paid has nothing to do with him walking or being sacked.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Utter rubbish.

And Graham managed in a different era where a side could finish mid-table one year and in the top few the next and there was no great pressure to finish higher up the league if you weren't going to win the thing.

That is a very good point. There was a lot of pressure on us to win our final match to finish 3rd - pressure that never existed in previous eras. Having said that, we played like nervous schoolgirls.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I believe that's the problem with Wenger, he's not just interested in winning.


Yep he punched the air and clapped his hands when we lost the CC final thats how much he hates winning. And when we lost 4-1 at Barca in the Cl a few seasons ago it was not upset in his face it was Glee masked as upset because he was not interested in winning i get it now.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Utter rubbish.

And Graham managed in a different era where a side could finish mid-table one year and in the top few the next and there was no great pressure to finish higher up the league if you weren't going to win the thing.

Too right.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Let's relieve him of his duties then, or send him upstairs as long as he has nothing to do with the playing side of the club.

Id go with this tbh. He does not need to leave the club and if he wants to be director of football etc fine. But if he decided to do this id not be too upset.

[fakeyank]

Not bothered each way tbh.

But the board won't sack him so the thread is irrelevant anyways.

This is a forum mate. Most of what we discuss isnt going to mean jack shit to anyone directly related to the running of the football club. Does that mean, we stop posting about Arsenal on GW?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Ideally AW would resign himself. He has not stood up to his own standards and he sounds just like a CEO or board member speaking. For the sake of what he achieved with us a long time back, I hope he leaves the managerial post on a good note. If he continues the same level of WUMery as last seasons (very likely) then he should be sacked immediately!

I don't say this much but i agree with this post FY.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

This is a forum mate. Most of what we discuss isnt going to mean jack shit to anyone directly related to the running of the football club. Does that mean, we stop posting about Arsenal on GW?

Its Irrelevant because the board won't sack him thats why i said it. Its the fact the OP thinks he could be sacked. If it was do you want Wenger Out then that is different if you see what i mean.

[Özim]

Utter rubbish.

And Graham managed in a different era where a side could finish mid-table one year and in the top few the next and there was no great pressure to finish higher up the league if you weren't going to win the thing.
It's not, some managers put winning first, for him winning is good but other aspects are as important if not more important, he's not happy to win at all costs.

Regardless of era, it's the attitude of the manager and Graham said his job was to win nothing else (hence the style of play).

[Özim]

Yep he punched the air and clapped his hands when we lost the CC final thats how much he hates winning. And when we lost 4-1 at Barca in the Cl a few seasons ago it was not upset in his face it was Glee masked as upset because he was not interested in winning i get it now.
This has been pointed out before and yet come the summer he barely signs anyone, doesn't invest in quality and we end up playing exactly the same way.

If he was really that bothered he'd try and do something about it.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

This has been pointed out before and yet come the summer he barely signs anyone, doesn't invest in quality and we end up playing exactly the same way.

If he was really that bothered he'd try and do something about it.


I agree on playing the same way but none of us know for sure on the investment and how much has been given. and i know it seems like the past 7 years will seem like him being cheap. But i don't think we had the money for the most part of the last 7 years.

I Think he wants to win but i think he is lost on how to win still.

[Letters]

It's not, some managers put winning first, for him winning is good but other aspects are as important if not more important, he's not happy to win at all costs.Nor am I.

Winning is clearly important to him. You can see his reaction when we're struggling. It's nonsense to say he's not bothered.

He is maybe a little too principled at times but better that than 1-0 to the Arsenal tedium every game even if we did win some trophies doing it.

[Özim]

Nor am I.

Winning is clearly important to him. You can see his reaction when we're struggling. It's nonsense to say he's not bothered.

He is maybe a little too principled at times but better that than 1-0 to the Arsenal tedium every game even if we did win some trophies doing it.
He hasn't won in 7 years and hasn't really made the necessary changes, he can't be that bothered to be honest....in addition he's always hailing 3rd/4th as an achievement, maybe that's enough for him and he's happy to finish his career without another success, most top managers wouldn't but most managers aren't like him.

I think most top managers wouldn't be too proud of just achieving 3rd/4th every season, he seems to be very proud.

[fakeyank]

I don't say this much but i agree with this post FY.

My God Charlie :faint:

What sort of drugs you on?

[Letters]

He hasn't won in 7 years and hasn't really made the necessary changes, he can't be that bothered to be honest...
Rubbish. Once again you're claiming far more knowledge of what's going on in the club than you have. For at least part of that time we've had the stadium debt restricting us and poor commercial deals which Wenger is nothing to do with. I don't know whether Wenger is looking longer term and trying to clear the debt as soon as possible, whether the board are restricting him more than he'd like, whether it's a principle thing. I suspect all of those may be factors but I don't really know. Nor do you.
Looking at his reactions it's clear he's bothered.

In addition he's always hailing 3rd/4th as an achievement
As are the rest of the footballing world. Several clubs have spent big to try and achieve it. Martin Jol got Spurs finishing 5th twice in a row - till then their highest PL finish. He was sacked because he failed to deliver CL football. Mad, but that's the modern game for you.

Repeatedly Wenger has finished above clubs who have spent big to qualify while spending far less than them. Top 4 shouldn't be an achievement in the modern game but because of the CL qualification and what it means, it is.

maybe that's enough for him and he's happy to finish his career without another success
Again, looking at his reactions it clearly isn't. But Wenger should be proud of 15 consecutive seasons qualifying for the CL. How many managers have done it? Fergie. Wenger. That's it.
We lost our 2 best midfielders last summer, we had a horrible start to the season, Spurs fans were lording it over us, we were written off by pretty much everyone and we've finished 3rd again. You said earlier in the season that there was no comparison between our squad and Spurs'. Now you're denying it's an achievement to finish above them.

Whether you regard it as an achievement is irrelevant. The fact is his employers do, the rest of the footballing world does and most fans do too. See how Spurs fans are nervously awaiting tonight's result because of what a Chelsea win would mean.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He hasn't won in 7 years and hasn't really made the necessary changes, he can't be that bothered to be honest....in addition he's always hailing 3rd/4th as an achievement, maybe that's enough for him and he's happy to finish his career without another success, most top managers wouldn't but most managers aren't like him.

I think most top managers wouldn't be too proud of just achieving 3rd/4th every season, he seems to be very proud.

Id think he love to win something before he retired and he may do that if he goes to another league to manage. i mean he could win the league or cup in France its not that hard and the way he plays will suit that league.

I don't think Wenger is happy to finish top 4 as much as he says, its more to cover up his failings thats why he says it and to protect his team from the press. he has always done that and always will.

David Moyes has not won a thing in 7 years and with the team he had he could have won at least the CC tbf but i don't see him being called a bad manager or happy to settle in the top 10.

and even though its been 7 years of failure 4 of them years we had the stadium debt to pay off so there was no money tbf.

Like you always say Football is about winning medals etc

Well Wenger has won those and im sure he'd be happy with what he has won in his career it could have been worse he could have won nothing. Thats all that will matter to him at the end off the day.

[Letters]

I think he's happy to finish top 4, Charlie, and so he should be.
I don't think he's happy with us not winning a trophy though.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I think he's happy to finish top 4, Charlie, and so he should be.
I don't think he's happy with us not winning a trophy though.

I mean he'd rather us win the league then finish top 4.

[Özim]

He's happier than the likes of Mourinho, Ferguson, Del Bosque, Capello, Lippi, Guardiola etc would be.

Like I said there's different degrees, some managers see winning as the number 1 aim, others see it as desirable but not the be all and end all...Wenger fits into the latter category.

[Letters]

He's happier than the likes of Mourinho, Ferguson, Del Bosque, Capello, Lippi, Guardiola etc would be.Only one of whom has had sustained success in the PL. Well, 2 if you include Mourinho but it wasn't that sustained and we all know how Chelsea achieved success.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He's happier than the likes of Mourinho, Ferguson, Del Bosque, Capello, Lippi, Guardiola etc would be.

Yes why not he still won things and thats what will be important to him and he can tell the grand kids what he won and show them his medals etc.

Im sure he'd like to win more and may regret not winning more but i say he'd be fairly happy.

[Özim]

Only one of whom has had sustained success in the PL. Well, 2 if you include Mourinho but it wasn't that sustained and we all know how Chelsea achieved success.
They never went 7 years without success.

In addition Wenger never defended the title, Mourinho did...the others never managed in the PL.

[GP]

He's happier than the likes of Mourinho, Ferguson, Del Bosque, Capello, Lippi, Guardiola etc would be.

Like I said there's different degrees, some managers see winning as the number 1 aim, others see it as desirable but not the be all and end all...Wenger fits into the latter category.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V2sKH8yjVsM#!

[Özim]

Yes why not he still won things and thats what will be important to him and he can tell the grand kids what he won and show them his medals etc.

Im sure he'd like to win more and may regret not winning more but i say he'd be fairly happy.
I was just making the point that winning is more important to some managers, I don't feel it is as important as it should be for Wenger, not saying he doesn't want to win I'm just saying it's not everything for him, good football, making the club money and doing things the way he thinks they should be done seems more important to him.

[AKBapologist]

Given that every manager who has prioritised cups to the detriment of there performance in the league has been sacked, it's hard to level the charge as a personality problem.

[Cripps_orig]

Yes

Get RDM in

Done in less than half a season what Wenger cant do in 16 years

[Marc Overmars]

Agreed.

Wenger is a ****.

[Master Splinter]

Did Wenget congratulate Di Matteo personally tonight?

Not even a beer raised in the direction of the TV?

What a ******* ******** French *********.

[Injury Time]

If Ramsay is in the first 11 regularly next season, and Wenger hasn't made him into Messi (okay I'd settle for a lot less shit) then put him in a sack.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yes

Get RDM in

Done in less than half a season what Wenger cant do in 16 years

Luck his way to the CL title? :haha:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Agreed.

Wenger is a ****.

Pretty much. The man is such a knob.

[Cripps_orig]

Luck his way to the CL title? :haha:Didnt watch the final tonight so no idea if he was lucky or not.

Fact remains, hes won it. We havent.

Wenger out

[Özim]

Yes

Get RDM in

Done in less than half a season what Wenger cant do in 16 years
Pretty much, funny how he got lucky and yet Wenger can't in 16 years eh?

[Özim]

Didnt watch the final tonight so no idea if he was lucky or not.

Fact remains, hes won it. We havent.

Wenger out
Again agreed, sometimes you do get the rub of the green , but you also have to make the most of it...Di Matteo's side did, Wenger's side have never....so yeah he should go.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Again agreed, sometimes you do get the rub of the green , but you also have to make the most of it...Di Matteo's side did, Wenger's side have never....so yeah he should go.

He should go because he never gets lucky in the CL such a odd thing to say.

[Coney]

He should go because he never gets lucky in the CL such a odd thing to say.

Napoleon used that to choose his generals - chose ones who were lucky. And it worked well. Till it snowed.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Napoleon used that to choose his generals - chose ones who were lucky. And it worked well. Till it snowed.

:lol:

[Özim]

He should go because he never gets lucky in the CL such a odd thing to say.
It has little to do with luck, that was the point. Some managers get lucky and other don't, I'd say that's due to the way they manage and the way they set out their teams.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It has little to do with luck, that was the point. Some managers get lucky and other don't, I'd say that's due to the way they manage and the way they set out their teams.

Oh i don't disagree He's not lucky at all Had Robben taken that Pen against Us it would have gone in and we all know this.

Same with Messi in the game before. Chelsea were really lucky to win the thing, it was nothing to do with Skill etc. All they did was put 11 men behind the ball and hope for the best.

Luckily for them it worked. Only one team actually Played football(not to their best may i add) and they lost.

[Özim]

Oh i don't disagree He's not lucky at all Had Robben taken that Pen against Us it would have gone in and we all know this.

Same with Messi in the game before. Chelsea were really lucky to win the thing, it was nothing to do with Skill etc. All they did was put 11 men behind the ball and hope for the best.

Luckily for them it worked. Only one team actually Played football(not to their best may i add) and they lost.
As I remember it, it was saved was it not?

Sorry but 16 years and he's not managed to get "lucky" as you put it, I'd say there's a bit more to it then luck.

Weren't you the one who was saying how Di Matteo deserved no credit, well two trophies (including Europe's biggest) in less than half a season after the sacking of the car crash AVB says different. Even the players thought he'd done a great job.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

i tend to agree fortunate or not, i think Di Matteo has done an exceptional job....i genuinely think he's a good guy which is more than can be said for many of his charges.
If he didn't get the job then i'd say he's better off without Chelsea.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

As I remember it, it was saved was it not?

Sorry but 16 years and he's not managed to get "lucky" as you put it, I'd say there's a bit more to it then luck.

Weren't you the one who was saying how Di Matteo deserved no credit, well two trophies (including Europe's biggest) in less than half a season after the sacking of the car crash AVB says different. Even the players thought he'd done a great job.

Well he's Chelsea best manager ever tbf i mean no one else has won them the biggest prize in football so credit to him.

[Özim]

Well he's Chelsea best manager ever tbf i mean no one else has won them the biggest prize in football so credit to him.
Not best ever no, but he'll always be remembered, he gets credit for turning around what was going to be a disastrous season for them.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Not best ever no, but he'll always be remembered, he gets credit for turning around what was going to be a disastrous season for them.

Yes he is He won them the top trophy no others could do it simple. Jose Spent loads and still failed all the years he was there

This man done in to 6 months.

[Özim]

Yes he is He won them the top trophy no others could do it simple. Jose Spent loads and still failed all the years he was there

This man done in to 6 months.
Not really, takes a lot more than that to become the best...if you don't see that more fool you.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Not really, takes a lot more than that to become the best...if you don't see that more fool you.

To Roman who always wanted to win the CL he will be the best. Jose failed to do it with the Chavs the proof is in the pudding.

Ok so he has not won the league but i am sure he'll do that in the next few seasons. A Chelsea man with Chelsea passion good to see tbh. No one deserved to win the CL more then him and Drogba.

[Özim]

To Roman who always wanted to win the CL he will be the best. Jose failed to do it with the Chavs the proof is in the pudding.
Again not really, it's not even been confirmed he's going to be their manager.

Whatever you say, Di Matteo isn't the best ever at this stage, it's ridiculous to say he is after less than half a season, especially when comparing to others who have achieved sustained success in the past after a period of 50 years without a title.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Again not really, it's not even been confirmed he's going to be their manager.

Whatever you say, Di Matteo isn't the best ever at this stage, it's ridiculous to say he is after less than half a season, especially when comparing to others who have achieved sustained success in the past after a period of 50 years without a title.

Its more the case he will. They be silly not to give it to him tbh. Even had he lost it they should give it to him.

He is the manager that made Roman the most happy anyways.

[Coney]

Di Matteo took over a bunch of totally demoralised players who did have great talent. He took over when they had already made it past the group stage and some qualifiers so he only had to get them through 3 matches in the CL. He showed the right drive and ability to motivate enough to get them through the games and fair play to him for doing that. However, he has not built a team from the bottom up over time. Avram Grant took over after Moronio went and did much the same thing, though he had the bad luck to have Terry to take the final penalty instead of Drogba - otherwise he would be in the same position as Di Matteo, and I don't hear lots of people holding up Grant as a great manager that turned the club round.

If Matteo is chosen as their manager for next year (which means he has until about March to prove to Abramovich that he is definitely going to win something) then we will begin to see what he can do. Whoever takes over chavs needs to spend the next year phasing in some players to replace those who are coming to the end of their top flight careers. That will be the challenge he faces.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Di Matteo took over a bunch of totally demoralised players who did have great talent. He took over when they had already made it past the group stage and some qualifiers so he only had to get them through 3 matches in the CL. He showed the right drive and ability to motivate enough to get them through the games and fair play to him for doing that. However, he has not built a team from the bottom up over time. Avram Grant took over after Moronio went and did much the same thing, though he had the bad luck to have Terry to take the final penalty instead of Drogba - otherwise he would be in the same position as Di Matteo, and I don't hear lots of people holding up Grant as a great manager that turned the club round.

If Matteo is chosen as their manager for next year (which means he has until about March to prove to Abramovich that he is definitely going to win something) then we will begin to see what he can do. Whoever takes over chavs needs to spend the next year phasing in some players to replace those who are coming to the end of their top flight careers. That will be the challenge he faces.

:gp:

AVB could have Won the CL with this lot, if they played for him rather then decided to show him who's boss. Lets not think this is a poor chav side far from it. They still have players in their team who knew how to win and that with the luck they had is what helped them.

I don't think they were the best side in that game, but sometimes football is cruel like that. But Bayern only have themselves to blame for Choking in a big game.

I guess the pressure of playing at home got to Bayern tbh.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Sacked, steps down, retires....don't care. I just want a change in management. He'll be remembered as a legend.

You see, this question can actually be answered pretty simply :good:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Pretty much, funny how he got lucky and yet Wenger can't in 16 years eh?

We call those people virgins where I come from- and no we don't give them another 2 years to sort it out, we do the only humane thing, we just pay hookers :)