Wenger Slaughterhouse

[Niall_Quinn]

I was wondering if it might not be better to have a dedicated thread for the fans to slaughter the manager. I can't keep track of all the anti-Wenger stuff that constantly litters the other threads (regardless of the topic). It would be a lot easier if it was all here so we could log-in every day and catch up with the latest news on how awful our manager is.

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger is a ****.

[Cripps_orig]

Is speaking the truth about Wenger anti-Wenger?

I know NQ seems to think hes a saint and can do no wrong. Is there anyone else on here like that?

Ollie doesnt count

[Niall_Quinn]

Is speaking the truth about Wenger anti-Wenger?

I know NQ seems to think hes a saint and can do no wrong. Is there anyone else on here like that?

Ollie doesnt count

Please stay on topic. Create a new N_Q Bitchslap thread if you want to talk about me. This is an anti-Wenger thread. Ollie DOES count. We are all God's fuck-ups creatures.

[Letters]

Wenger is literally the worse manager Arsenal have ever had.

[Niall_Quinn]

He finished 3rd just to spite us - the bastard!

[Özim]

There's liars, compulsive liars and then Wenger's

[Niall_Quinn]

He horsenapped Shergar - the bastard!

[Özim]

There's ideas, stupid ideas and then Wenger's ideas:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/5098435/Arsenal-manager-Arsene-Wenger-wants-points-for-goals.html

[Letters]

He finished 3rd just to spite us - the bastard!
15 years in the Champions League?
What a show off twat :angry:

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger sold nuclear weapons secrets to the Chinese - the money grabbing bastard!

[Letters]

Wenger went to Auschwitz and laughed :angry:

[Özim]

There's comments, stupid comments and then Wenger comments:

"Super super quality"
"Lacked a little bit of sharpness"
"I did no see it"
"Great togetherness, spirit and mental strength"
"We are in a waiting period"
etc etc

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger signed Chamakh - no wait...

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Wenget. :lol:

Awful Wenger.

[Özim]

There's tactics, stupid tactics and then there's Wenger tactics.

Basically not worrying about defending or the opposition.

[selassie]

Handbrakes and water bottles...we should make up a song about Le Prof. ;)

[Joker]

Back in 2009, when fans were struggling in the face of the recession, Wenget's priority is to slam the 50p tax rate, therefore showing how he's changed from being a top quality, innovative football manager to a right wing neoliberal Conservative businessman.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-tax-laws-will-weaken-premier-league

[Özim]

Back in 2009, when fans were struggling in the face of the recession, Wenget's priority is to slam the 50p tax rate, therefore showing how he's changed from being a top quality, innovative football manager to a right wing neoliberal Conservative businessman.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-tax-laws-will-weaken-premier-league
Just highlights what a cr*ck of sh*t he talks really, probably thinking about his fat cat salary as well...probably had to give the yacht purchase a miss because of it.

[Niall_Quinn]

50p tax rate is utterly immoral in all cases. Nobody is ever entitled to half your labour and anyone who thinks otherwise is a dirty commie.

:bow: Wenger - tough on the 50p tax rate, tough on the causes of the 50p tax rate

[Niall_Quinn]

OOPS! Got that wrong!

Wenger introduced the 50p tax rate to rob people - what a bastard!

[Flavs]

Didnt he found Red and White Kop?

and

Glory-Glory

[Niall_Quinn]

Didnt he found Red and White Kop?

and

Glory-Glory

What a bastard!

[GP]

When life gives you lemons, they were probably grown by Wenger.

Wenger :lol:

Awful gardener

[Niall_Quinn]

Was a lovely sunny day here and then a cloud blocked it all out! Wenger - what a bastard!

[Letters]

Wenger let Coldplay play at the Emirates.

The tit.

[GP]

Wenger let Coldplay play at the Emirates.

The tit.

He also writes all their songs, which is why they lack a little bit sharpness.

[fakeyank]

Wenger is a Muslim

[Coney]

He finished 3rd just to spite us - the bastard!

Damn right! He promised 4th at the start of the season and should be vilified for this failure to deliver his promises once again.

[Coney]

He also writes all their songs, which is why they lack a little bit sharpness.

:lol:

[Coney]

Wenger is the product of the sperm of the Dein-devil.

[Özim]

He's a glorified scout to be honest and an average one at that these days.

[Ollie the Optimist]

its quite amusing in this thread how there are lots of posters taking the piss and there is just zimm who is having a go at wenger all on his own :lol:

[Özim]

its quite amusing in this thread how there are lots of posters taking the piss and there is just zimm who is having a go at wenger all on his own :lol:
Wrong I'm taking the p*ss as well but out of Wenger, feels great to be honest :lol:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

wenger knows where kony is but he's holding back key information

[GP]

Wenger is Kony

[Letters]

Wenger is Kony
He whites up for Arsenal games :sulk:

[tpyo]

I tried to assassinate Wenger with a knife.... but I lacked a bit of sharpness.

[Master Splinter]

http://www.osovo.com/pics/crying/crying-baby06.jpg

"Wenger is earning 7 million pounds."


http://www.tvasylum.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/dawson-crying-300x225.jpg

"Wenger doesn't have a glass of wine with Little Englanders."


Am I doing this right?

[V-Pig]

Arsene Vonnegut :bow:

[GP]

Wenger is responsible for the failure of Operation Market Garden.

[Özim]

Wenger was on is way to the bottle bank the other day when he realised he had no bottle.

[Özim]

Went to see American Pie: Reunion the other day, was shocked to see Arsene Wenger was there, so on the way out rather than talk about football, I said hi told him I didn't expect this to be his kind of film and them asked him what he thought of the film.

He told me he did not see it.

[Özim]

Wenger was in the supermarket doing his shopping, he picked up everything he needed then went to the till to pay, anyway the people in the queue ahead of him paid for their stuff and left and he continued to stand there. One person in the queue behind him said "Mr Wenger what are you waiting for".

He said he was in a waiting period and that there was no movement in the supermarket at the moment.

[milla]

I was wondering if it might not be better to have a dedicated thread for the fans to slaughter the manager. I can't keep track of all the anti-Wenger stuff that constantly litters the other threads (regardless of the topic). It would be a lot easier if it was all here so we could log-in every day and catch up with the latest news on how awful our manager is.

Wenger is your old man. :coffee:

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger is your old man. :coffee:

No, cousin.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Zim has successfully disproved the million monkeys with a million typewriters theory.

[milla]

No, cousin.

Old man and cousin at the same time? One sick family tbh :coffee:

[GP]

Zim has successfully disproved the million monkeys with a million typewriters theory.

He is the blurst poster.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Wenger was on is way to the bottle bank the other day when he realised he had no bottle.


Went to see American Pie: Reunion the other day, was shocked to see Arsene Wenger was there, so on the way out rather than talk about football, I said hi told him I didn't expect this to be his kind of film and them asked him what he thought of the film.

He told me he did not see it.


Wenger was in the supermarket doing his shopping, he picked up everything he needed then went to the till to pay, anyway the people in the queue ahead of him paid for their stuff and left and he continued to stand there. One person in the queue behind him said "Mr Wenger what are you waiting for".

He said he was in a waiting period and that there was no movement in the supermarket at the moment.Fuck me zimm.

Don't try for a career in stand-up will ya.

At this point I would say your 2% away from being institutionalised.

[Özim]

Fuck me zimm.

Don't try for a career in stand-up will ya.

At this point I would say your 2% away from being institutionalised.
He doesn't give me much quality material to work with to be fair, it's too repetitive.

[Globalgunner]

Wenger couldnt win a crap game

[jelgoon]

I dont even know why you suddenly love Wenger. If I remember correctly you werent slow to slag him off when we were crap at the beginning of the season. Anyhow those of us who spend a lot of money going to matches can say what we think.
I was wondering if it might not be better to have a dedicated thread for the fans to slaughter the manager. I can't keep track of all the anti-Wenger stuff that constantly litters the other threads (regardless of the topic). It would be a lot easier if it was all here so we could log-in every day and catch up with the latest news on how awful our manager is.

[Niall_Quinn]

Old man and cousin at the same time? One sick family tbh :coffee:

You do coffee we do methamphetamine, makes us even livelier.

[GP]

You do coffee we do methamphetamine, makes us even livelier.

You should switch to Krokodile

[Niall_Quinn]

I dont even know why you suddenly love Wenger. If I remember correctly you werent slow to slag him off when we were crap at the beginning of the season. Anyhow those of us who spend a lot of money going to matches can say what we think.

I don't love Wenger, except in a homo way. I just want the threads to be more organised.

[Niall_Quinn]

You should switch to Krokodile

You take what you can get in prison.

[Xhaka Can’t]

You take what you can get in prison.

I'd rather give.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I'd rather give.

Think of the view you'll have though.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Think of the view you'll have though.

Eyes wide shut.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I'd rather give.Homo.

[Niall_Quinn]

Another prison rape thread - how many is that on GW now?

[Alpha]

Wenger is Arsene and Arsene is Wenger . So what ?

[Fist of Lehmann]

Another prison rape thread - how many is that on GW now?Out of 1391?

Something in the region of all of them.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger bombed our chip shop. The bastard!

[Coney]

Wenger bombed our chip shop. The bastard!

He should be battered to death.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Arsene Wenger

- Chaired the Wansee conference

- Was the prosecuting counsel in the trial of George Stinney jnr

- Tampered with the brakes of Ted Kennedy's Oldsmobile Delmont 88

- Gave copies of Catcher in the Rye to Mark Chapman and John Hinckley respectively

- Lent Sidney Cooke the cash to set up "test your strength" stalls at fairgrounds

- Convinced Margaret Thatcher to let Britain join the ERM

- Gave Alan Greenspan the idea for sub-prime Mortgages.

[Cripps_orig]

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger has made it known that money has never been a motivation during his coaching career.

The Frenchman has been at the north London club for 16 years, and won widespread acclaim for the attacking football the Gunners have played during his tenure.

However, he has now revealed that he had numerous opportunities to earn a more lucrative wage elsewhere, but resisted a move because he valued the work at Arsenal.

"I could move to clubs for more than 10 times [the amount of money] but I didn't do it," he told De Telegraaf. "[I've had] 16 years at Arsenal and I stay here because of my philosophy and vision.

"Money is not my motivation and that's also the way for [Johan] Cruyff at Ajax and [Wim] Jansen at Feyenoord."

Arsenal begin their next Premier League campaign with a home match against Sunderland on August 18.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3284/euro-2012/2012/06/23/3195407/wenger-i-could-earn-10-times-more-if-i-left-arsenal-but-money-is-

:lol:

He gets £6m a year here for doing f all. He'd probably earn more elsewhere but he'd also have to produce trophies or he'd be sacked. He knows he has none of that pressure here from the worst board in the business so thats why he stays. Got f all to do with anything else

[Özim]

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3284/euro-2012/2012/06/23/3195407/wenger-i-could-earn-10-times-more-if-i-left-arsenal-but-money-is-

:lol:

He gets £6m a year here for doing f all. He'd probably earn more elsewhere but he'd also have to produce trophies or he'd be sacked. He knows he has none of that pressure here from the worst board in the business so thats why he stays. Got f all to do with anything else
He's such a BS as well, he could have earnt more than 10 times what he was earning.......pull the other one noone is going to pay him 50-60 million pounds a year :lol:

He stays cos it's a cushy job that brings in a nice wedge, no questions asked where he can lie himself out of any situation without any comeback!

Let's be honest as well, who is going to pay some guy with 7 years of proven failure big money now, you'd have to be a fool with more money than sense (admittedly there's a few about).

Maybe money isn't his motivation, but neither is winning, I think being the 1st economist manager is his ambition and credit where credit's due he does a good job at that, he also talks about his economic achievements every other day as well!

[Joker]

LOL what bullshit from Wenger again. His job must be the best in the world, get paid £6M with no pressure to actually deliver trophies. Even if he did get paid more at another club, he knows he'd actually have to deliver trophies and if he didn't, he'd be sacked. He doesn't want to take that risk. For most employees we could understand this contentment at the status quo, but for a football manager who was successful during an 8 year period winning several trophies, I find it sad how he's seemingly lost all love of football and prepared to simply behave like a manager at a private sector enterprise, picking up his pay packet and delivering just enough to keep the board happy.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger is one of the dumbest employees ever. The stupid idiot does what his bosses tell him. Okay sure, that way he gets to keep his job. But if he only had the balls to piss the board off he could be as great an ex-manager as Harry Redknapp.

[Cripps_orig]

Arsene Wenger has accused Manchester City and Barcelona of trying to destroy his work at Arsenal.

Last summer saw former club captain Cesc Fabregas leave north London to join Spanish giants Barcelona while French duo Samir Nasri and Gael Clichy were lured away by Premier League rivals Manchester City.

And the 62-year-old manager admitted he has found it frustrating watching his young stars leave the Emirates at an age when he believes they could have driven the Gunners to an ever-elusive trophy.
"Sometimes people try and destroy your work," the 62-year-old told De Telegraaf.

"I lost Nasri, Clichy and Fabregas at an age when they could have made the difference for Arsenal."

Arsenal have already added Lukas Podolski to their ranks this summer, and Wenger has confirmed that a deal for Montpellier striker Olivier Giroud is close to completion.


http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/06/23/3195548/wenger-manchester-city-barcelona-have-tried-to-destroy-my

More BS

No Wenger, you didnt have to sell. Look to yourself before blaming others. If he stopped bending over for others especially Barca, we'd have kept a few more players and who knows, might have won a trophy or two

[Niall_Quinn]

Sometimes people try and destroy your work," the 62-year-old told De Telegraaf.

Are there people here who still don't get it?

[Cripps_orig]

Are there people here who still don't get it?

Hes talking about Bar****s and Man ****ity which is BS obviously

[Niall_Quinn]

Hes talking about Bar****s and Man ****ity which is BS obviously

Why "obviously"? There's nothing obvious about the Fabregas, Na$ri saga last season either.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger is one of the dumbest employees ever. The stupid idiot does what his bosses tell him. Okay sure, that way he gets to keep his job. But if he only had the balls to piss the board off he could be as great an ex-manager as Harry Redknapp.

That really isn't the case and he's suggesting that he could have gone to many other clubs for better pay but he'd never have the same sort o freedom to build teams the way he likes with his vision and philosophy. At Arsenal he has that sort of freedom. The Board backs his vision and respect the way he wants to play and develop players. It's not case that he lacks ambition as some have suggested and it's not as if he's here to pick up a check and to keep his mouth shut while the Board look to make a profit. The relationship would never have lasted this long if the two didn't agree on the same principles.

[Bergkampwonderland10]

Lave to admit - I'd FINALLY lost my patience with Wenger$after lHst year's summer transfer craziness - he places far too much faath in hms playeqs to be`as committed as he is afd it backfired in the best way tossible for us. The day the Arsenal fans turne

[Joker]

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/06/23/3195548/wenger-manchester-city-barcelona-have-tried-to-destroy-my

More BS

No Wenger, you didnt have to sell. Look to yourself before blaming others. If he stopped bending over for others especially Barca, we'd have kept a few more players and who knows, might have won a trophy or two

So Wenger, the Milton Friedman discipline and free market fundamentalist, doesn't think that other clubs should have the opportunity to bid for players? Does he not believe in a free market for football players? Does he want artificial regulations in place to stop players leaving? Surely that goes against Chicago School Economic Theory?

[GP]

So Wenger, the Milton Friedman discipline and free market fundamentalist, doesn't think that other clubs should have the opportunity to bid for players? Does he not believe in a free market for football players? Does he want artificial regulations in place to stop players leaving? Surely that goes against Chicago School Economic Theory?

You don't half talk shit.

No offence.

[Cripps_orig]

So Wenger, the Milton Friedman discipline and free market fundamentalist, doesn't think that other clubs should have the opportunity to bid for players? Does he not believe in a free market for football players? Does he want artificial regulations in place to stop players leaving? Surely that goes against Chicago School Economic Theory?

Didnt understand most of that but yeah pretty much

[AKBapologist]

Wengers a kenyesian tbh.

sent from a fone

[Joker]

Wengers a kenyesian tbh.

sent from a fone

Doesn't seem to be appreciate the need for stimulus spending to get an economy (football team) out of a prolonged slump though.

[AKBapologist]

Doesn't seem to be appreciate the need for stimulus spending to get an economy (football team) out of a prolonged slump though.

But thinks the free market is bollocks tbh.

sent from a fone

[Özim]

oh do shut up moaning :rolleyes:
When Wenger leaves I will don't worry.

[Letters]

When Wenger leaves I will don't worry.
No you won't.

[Cripps_orig]

When Wenger leaves I will don't worry.

Speaking truth is not moaning tbh

[Özim]

Speaking truth is not moaning tbh
No but you know how it is, Wenger is the 2nd coming etc etc

[Cripps_orig]

No but you know how it is, Wenger is the 2nd coming etc etc

Pretty much

[Letters]

No but you know how it is, Wenger is the 2nd coming etc etc
Who has said that?

[Özim]

It's an unspoken rule round these parts with some, 7 years of f*ckups and he's still has the backing of most.

[Master Splinter]

Who has said that?

Wenger Can Do No Wrong cultists like yourself.

You see everything completely in black and white, with no variables or nuances regarding your 100% positive critique of Wenger and Arsenal. Unlike the opposing Wenger Is A Complete Buffoon gang, who are fair, reasoned and successfully apply thoughtful logic to their arguments.

[V-Pig]

It's an unspoken rule round these parts with some, 7 years of f*ckups and he's still has the backing of most.

Yeah, but look at who agrees most with you on GW and then reassess your views.

[Cripps_orig]

Who has said that?People may not have literally said that but i think you already know that

But when people are actually saying stuff like Park wasnt a Wenger signing just to defend him, well you can see why some would think that people think hes the second coming

[Cripps_orig]

Yeah, but look at who agrees most with you on GW and then reassess your views.Homos back :bow:

[Letters]

No.

There are people on here who criticize everything we as a club do. And Wenger in particular.
We lose, they moan. We go on a good run and they still moan and belittle the achievement.
We struggle in mid-table and they moan and say how much better teams like Spurs are.
We finish 3rd, above Spurs, and they belittle the achievement and say it's nothing to shout about despite their aforementioned praising of the teams who they thought certain to finish way above us.
We do nothing in the transfer market, they moan.
We sign some decent players and they still moan.

None of the above is a caricature or a misrepresentation of their posts (I say posts, not views, but they are almost certainly WUMming and don't actually believe what they write most of the time)

And they then have the temerity to post saying that other posters see no wrong at the club, can find no fault with Wenger. NO-ONE has posted anything remotely resembling that view. Almost everyone has acknowledged some things need to change. But most can also see that last season didn't end up as quite the disaster it looked like it might be and that we're looking to be more positive in the transfer market. These are surely more positive signs.

That does NOT mean that everything is brilliant. It does also not mean that everything is doom and gloom. As always, too many people on here refuse to see a middle ground, only post from an extreme point of view and kill any meaningful debate.

It's tiresome.

[Cripps_orig]

Too many bumbling idiots around tbh

[Cripps_orig]

Homos?

Was he a Greek philosopher or something?
Yup. I did my research in to Greek history cos i take my sweepstake teams seriously.

[Letters]

Maccy! :angry:

[Özim]

Some people just think time's up for him, he's tried but blown it, 7 years is plenty he's not up to it. Don't see why anything he does should change your mind now, he's had his chance and failed....game over for him.

Even cats don't get as many lives

[fakeyank]

Homos back :bow:

:lol:

[Ollie the Optimist]

Some people just think time's up for him, he's tried but blown it, 7 years is plenty he's not up to it. Don't see why anything he does should change your mind now, he's had his chance and failed....game over for him.

Even cats don't get as many lives

well now he seems to have changed. two quality payers in before window open and looking at more. there is something different this year, he seems to havwe learnt from mistakes

[Fist of Lehmann]

The window's not open? :unsure:

[Ollie the Optimist]

The window's not open? :unsure:

opens in july i think?

[Özim]

well now he seems to have changed. two quality payers in before window open and looking at more. there is something different this year, he seems to havwe learnt from mistakes
It's not changed, he's incapable of being successful he's shown that.

He's signed a couple players, it will be good for the next manager to have some new blood to work with. Maybe we signed them because our next manager wanted them :lol:

[Cripps_orig]

well now he seems to have changed. two quality payers in before window open and looking at more. there is something different this year, he seems to havwe learnt from mistakes

1 quality player in Podolski

Giroud, the jury is well and truly out

He could either be a Chamakh or a flop like Gervinho. One thing he isnt yet and thats quality

[Letters]

You had to spoil a decent post with a stupid insult. I've removed that.

Yes, a lot of people do think that. But we finished 3rd behind a team who bought the title and a team with the best manager around. Hardly the outcome you'd expect if Wenger was as incompetent as you make out. There is a middle ground between Wenger being a flawless genius and an utter moron you know.

7 years without a trophy is too long for a club at the level Wenger took us too, I agree. But qualifying for the CL every year is no mean feat. You've said you don't regard it as an achievement, clearly a lot of people do given the money clubs throw around to try and achieve it - most of whom have failed to qualify consistently. Trophies aren't as easy to come by as they used to be in the era of billionaire owners (who, depressingly, swept the board the season just gone). That said if you do get to a final against a team like Birmingham then you really should be winning it. Wenger should have been sacked for that.

At least we're trying to do things this summer. I fear it's because they know RvP is going to leave but we'll see. If he does at least they're doing business early rather than scrabbling around on transfer deadline day like we have been and signing more established players, not kids.

Fact is, Wenger will be our manager next season. Moaning about every thing he does (good or bad) won't change that. There may be better managers out there but there are a lot of worse managers too.

[Letters]

It's not changed, he's incapable of being successful he's shown that.
That depends how you define success.

[Fist of Lehmann]

opens in july i think?You're right. Weird. I always thought it was 3 months long.

[Özim]

I've lost faith in him, those are the facts for me and whilst the couple signings are positive it's too little too late for me. Like you mentioned we may well lose RVP so we may be bringing in a couple players to replace him.

Bringing up 3rd and the CL has little meaning to me because I simply don't value those things, I don't get particular pleasure from seeing the club there every season because it's not exciting..I'd rather things be less predictable so that we at least feel there's always a chance of success even if it doesn't happen.

Right now I just don't feel that, there's clubs with money but it takes more than money to build a top team, just look at Holland with a host of stars, they flopped despite having arguably the best group of players.

He's going to be here next season (unfortunately) and I'm hoping things will be different, but I doubt it very much...let's see what the summer brings.

My comments about him today were just about the way he always seems to BS about everything though, you can play up the merits of a player without lying about it, Giroud hasn't performed at the highest level...so why say it? That's one of the big problems for me, does he actually believe this BS he comes out with?

[Özim]

That depends how you define success.
I define sucess as trophies in the trophy cabinet, anything else is failure for a club like us. Not saying we should be winning every season but we should be picking up trophies or certainly getting very close to the major ones from time to time.

7 years with nothing from where were were then is total failure, there's no other way of looking at it. Going from a top top side who were always capable of beating anything that was put in front of them to what we've endured since then just isn't good enough.

[V-Pig]

Homos back :bow:

Funny, witting, cutting. Mostly funny, obviously.

[Letters]

Oh come on, all managers BS. We just notice it more with Wenger because he's our manager and we take more notice of what he says. He does come out with some crap but they all do it.

I agree we've little or no chance of winning the CL but I still enjoy the campaigns. We did well to win our group last year and the Milan game at home last year was one of the best atmospheres in the Emirates era. Ultimately it was all for nought but from the atmosphere at the end you could tell how much everyone had enjoyed it. I'd rather be there than not. As for success, I'd rather have had our season last year than Liverpool's who did win a trophy and get to another final but whose season was, in your words, a car crash. We should be winning trophies but it's not the be all and end all, the journey of a season is important too. But as I've said I agree 7 years is too long for a club at our level.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Homos back :bow:

And with Cripps down on his knees, bending over, mouth open and ready, he's in for some hot gay action!

[Kano]

I've lost faith in him, those are the facts for me and whilst the couple signings are positive it's too little too late for me. Like you mentioned we may well lose RVP so we may be bringing in a couple players to replace him.

Bringing up 3rd and the CL has little meaning to me because I simply don't value those things, I don't get particular pleasure from seeing the club there every season because it's not exciting..I'd rather things be less predictable so that we at least feel there's always a chance of success even if it doesn't happen.

Right now I just don't feel that, there's clubs with money but it takes more than money to build a top team, just look at Holland with a host of stars, they flopped despite having arguably the best group of players.

He's going to be here next season (unfortunately) and I'm hoping things will be different, but I doubt it very much...let's see what the summer brings.

My comments about him today were just about the way he always seems to BS about everything though, you can play up the merits of a player without lying about it, Giroud hasn't performed at the highest level...so why say it? That's one of the big problems for me, does he actually believe this BS he comes out with?

i would like a new manager too as i agree the best of wenger is now past tense.

but you do come out with completely ridiculous statements and such negative sentiments about the club that it actually goes full circle so you end up undermining your own points.

[LDG]

My comments about him today were just about the way he always seems to BS about everything though, you can play up the merits of a player without lying about it, Giroud hasn't performed at the highest level...so why say it? That's one of the big problems for me, does he actually believe this BS he comes out with?

He does talk utter turd at times. They all do.

And just look at Giroud's opening interview. Can anybody in their right mind believe him? Says all the right things, says he'll do it for the fans etc etc. I mean, come on. It's the same bullshit.

Players and managers alike are at the mercy of the media every time they open their mouths. What they're saying to the media, and what they actually think, are miles apart, and I would have thought you would have gotten that by now.

[Kano]

"Thierry Henry is a valuable addition to our squad," said Arsenal Coach Arsene Wenger as the 21-year-old Henry arrived from Juventus' training camp for a hastily-called news conference at Arsenal's north London ground.

"He is a young international striker who will be a great asset to Arsenal football club. He has good experience of both club and international football and will considerably strengthen our firepower."

after scoring 31 goals in 160 games.

hype? nah never.

[GP]

So, you're saying that Giroud is GUARANTEED to be better than Henry.

I like it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Now then, Now then, Now then!

I have this letter here in my hand from a young lad who's a big Arsenal fan and writes:

"Dear Jim, can you fix it for me to get rid of Arsene Wenger as our manager and win lots of trophies next season? I've tried everything to get shot of him including WUMing and whining on the Internet 24/7 but he's still here and it's driving me mad. I've actually forgotten all the reasons I want him gone by now, it's become a crusade to want him out.Trust me Jim, he's the one thing standing between the club I love and the trophies we would certainly be winning were it not for him."

"He shafted me good and proper last year by ruining our appalling start to the season (which was vindicating everything I moan about) and dragging us into 3rd place. Now he's rubbing my nose in it by signing quality players before the transfer window even opens, wilfully destroying my finely honed argument he never spends money and refuses to learn. It's completely out of control and I ask myself what's next? I wouldn't put it past him to win a trophy next year just to spite me. And all this without me ever doing a thing to the man."

"Please, please Jim, this has to stop now before it gets any worse and he does something crazy like signing some quality cover for Song! That would be the last straw. He's taunting me Jim, he's using his failed youth policy to sign kids like Oxlade Chamberlain. Jack Wilshere is on his way back. Theo Walcott is even showing signs of development. It's all going wrong and I'm at my wits end."

"I'm begging you Jim, please get rid of this man for me, you're my last hope. Can you help me Jim?"

[Coney]

:gp: :lol:

[Özim]

after scoring 31 goals in 160 games.

hype? nah never.
Henry was a bit different to be fair, proven on the world stage for France and he'd performed in the CL as well.

I've got nothing against Giroud and hope he turns out to be excellent and scores lot of goals, I just thing Wenger has this horrible way of overhyping players to their detriment.

Hoping this guy does well though, if he's an out and out goalscorer and adapts he could be the finisher we need, still thinks he's relatively unproven at this stage though.

[Kano]

Henry was a bit different to be fair, proven on the world stage for France and he'd performed in the CL as well.

I've got nothing against Giroud and hope he turns out to be excellent and scores lot of goals, I just thing Wenger has this horrible way of overhyping players to their detriment.

Hoping this guy does well though, if he's an out and out goalscorer and adapts he could be the finisher we need, still thinks he's relatively unproven at this stage though.

he wasn't a proven goalscorer, as his stats show. so wenger was going ott by saying 'adding considerable firepower' don't you think? 1 goal in every 5 games up to that point.

[The Ogg Monster]

Sadly, this thread has just added an extra outlet for the Wenger-bashers other than keeping it away from other threads.

[Özim]

he wasn't a proven goalscorer, as his stats show. so wenger was going ott by saying 'adding considerable firepower' don't you think? 1 goal in every 5 games up to that point.
He was played on the wing, but even from there he was pretty potent.

Had he been played up front it might have been different. Thing is though, in those days you couldn't argue with what Wenger said as everything he touched turned to gold, the problem is nowadays it doesn't so his words will come under much more scrutiny.

[Letters]

Now then, Now then, Now then!

I have this letter here in my hand from a young lad who's a big Arsenal fan and writes:

"Dear Jim, can you fix it for me to get rid of Arsene Wenger as our manager and win lots of trophies next season? I've tried everything to get shot of him including WUMing and whining on the Internet 24/7 but he's still here and it's driving me mad. I've actually forgotten all the reasons I want him gone by now, it's become a crusade to want him out.Trust me Jim, he's the one thing standing between the club I love and the trophies we would certainly be winning were it not for him."

"He shafted me good and proper last year by ruining our appalling start to the season (which was vindicating everything I moan about) and dragging us into 3rd place. Now he's rubbing my nose in it by signing quality players before the transfer window even opens, wilfully destroying my finely honed argument he never spends money and refuses to learn. It's completely out of control and I ask myself what's next? I wouldn't put it past him to win a trophy next year just to spite me. And all this without me ever doing a thing to the man."

"Please, please Jim, this has to stop now before it gets any worse and he does something crazy like signing some quality cover for Song! That would be the last straw. He's taunting me Jim, he's using his failed youth policy to sign kids like Oxlade Chamberlain. Jack Wilshere is on his way back. Theo Walcott is even showing signs of development. It's all going wrong and I'm at my wits end."

"I'm begging you Jim, please get rid of this man for me, you're my last hope. Can you help me Jim?"
:d

:gp:

[AKBapologist]

:lol:

sent from a fone

[Kano]

He was played on the wing, but even from there he was pretty potent.

Had he been played up front it might have been different. Thing is though, in those days you couldn't argue with what Wenger said as everything he touched turned to gold, the problem is nowadays it doesn't so his words will come under much more scrutiny.

no you are just finding a problem where there isn't one

or trolling

[Özim]

Blanc leaves French job, could Wenger maybe take over :pray:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18659024

[GP]

Non

[Cripps_orig]

Blanc leaves French job, could Wenger maybe take over :pray:

Apparently it'll be Deschamps :(

[Cripps_orig]

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger has stated he will not be leaving the club to take over from Laurent Blanc as France coach.

The Gunners boss was linked as a potential candidate to take over from Blanc after the former Bordeaux coach stepped down following their disappointing Euro 2012 campaign.

"There are a lot of names," Wenger told Telefoot.

"But me, I will be very busy with Arsenal where my contract still runs for two years."

Les Bleus improved on their group stage elimination at the 2010 World Cup in South Africa making the quarter-finals, but the in-fighting so prevalent two years ago reared it's head once more and disrupted preparations ahead of the loss to Spain.

Among the top names linked to the job are Paul Le Guen and Luis Fernandez, with Marseille coach Didier Deschamps the current favourite to succeed Blanc.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3284/euro-2012/2012/07/01/3213014/wenger-rules-himself-out-of-france-job

FFS

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Sadly, this thread has just added an extra outlet for the Wenger-bashers other than keeping it away from other threads.

disgusting how the best manager in the league is treated tbh

[Cripps_orig]

disgusting how the best manager in the league is treated tbh

Ferguson is a **** tbh

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Ferguson is a **** tbh

yeah but wenger introduced steroids into the premier league

[Joker]

A lot of people when defending Wenger keep going on about how intelligent he is, that he has a masters degree in economics, and therefore he can't be some sort of bumbling idiot, and consequently should be given time to get things right at Arsenal.

However, I wonder how much of this "intelligence" is simply a myth propagated by people who still have in their mind the bookish, glasses wear professor who came to Arsenal in the mid 90s, with revolutionary ideas about diet, fitness, sports science etc. However, he didn't come up with those ideas, and it was well known in Europe that proper nutrition and a healthy lifestyle are essential factors that influence performance on the field. England was behind the curve yes, but the fact that Wenger simply brought over pre-existing ideas doesn't make him intelligent IMO.

Moreover, his obsession with statistics may make him look numerate, but he's not the only manager who likes looking at the data. Sam Allardyce also thought that statistics were important to understand the value of individual players or how to improve tactically, and no one claims he's clever. In any case, isn't it also true that a sign of intelligence is also to know the limits of data, and knowing what such statistics can and can't tell us about the real world. Wenger persisted with Denilson for a long time, even though most fans could see he was a hindrance in the midfield. Wenger justified this by claiming the statistics show he's a good passer of the ball, he covers a lot of yards etc. However, this was a classic case of Wenger ignoring reality and being so besotted by statistics that he failed to see what was obvious, that Denilson wasn't good enough.

I haven't even mentioned the huge failings tactically that Wenger has made over the last 6 years, of playing players out of positions, bizarre substitutions, failing to augment the squad with real quality to allow us to compete on multiple fronts, etc etc. Most supporters could see all this, and we're not football experts and most of us don't have degrees in economics. So either Wenger's intelligence is vastly overrated or us fans are extremely smart people.

[Flavs]

but the fact that Wenger simply brought over pre-existing ideas doesn't make him intelligent IMO.

And that, is why you fail.

[Xhaka Can’t]

A lot of people when defending Wenger keep going on about how intelligent he is, that he has a masters degree in economics, and therefore he can't be some sort of bumbling idiot, and consequently should be given time to get things right at Arsenal.

However, I wonder how much of this "intelligence" is simply a myth propagated by people who still have in their mind the bookish, glasses wear professor who came to Arsenal in the mid 90s, with revolutionary ideas about diet, fitness, sports science etc. However, he didn't come up with those ideas, and it was well known in Europe that proper nutrition and a healthy lifestyle are essential factors that influence performance on the field. England was behind the curve yes, but the fact that Wenger simply brought over pre-existing ideas doesn't make him intelligent IMO.

Moreover, his obsession with statistics may make him look numerate, but he's not the only manager who likes looking at the data. Sam Allardyce also thought that statistics were important to understand the value of individual players or how to improve tactically, and no one claims he's clever. In any case, isn't it also true that a sign of intelligence is also to know the limits of data, and knowing what such statistics can and can't tell us about the real world. Wenger persisted with Denilson for a long time, even though most fans could see he was a hindrance in the midfield. Wenger justified this by claiming the statistics show he's a good passer of the ball, he covers a lot of yards etc. However, this was a classic case of Wenger ignoring reality and being so besotted by statistics that he failed to see what was obvious, that Denilson wasn't good enough.

I haven't even mentioned the huge failings tactically that Wenger has made over the last 6 years, of playing players out of positions, bizarre substitutions, failing to augment the squad with real quality to allow us to compete on multiple fronts, etc etc. Most supporters could see all this, and we're not football experts and most of us don't have degrees in economics. So either Wenger's intelligence is vastly overrated or us fans are extremely smart people.


Can someone close this and move the post to the slaughterhouse thread?

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

the problem is that sometimes success makes you ignorant and stubborn enough to warp your judgement and affect what others view as simple common sense decisions. the guy was the first manager to take a team through a season unbeaten in england, so who are the fans to tell him what to do? or the board? or even alex ferguson?

[Power n Glory]

He's intelligent but he'a human also. The youth project hasn't worked out as predicted an they've made some errors along the way. Hopefully, we get back on track and it looks like we're trying to considering the latest transfers we've made.

[V-Pig]

Having a Masters is usually a reasonable indication of intelligence, as is fluency in one or more foreign languages.

Whether or not you don't like him for his tactics or perceived stubbornness doesn't relate to his intelligence, Shirley?

[Letters]

Revisionism :bow:

And to answer the initial question: yes.

Did he invent the idea that going out on the piss every evening isn't conducive to performing well in sport? No.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Most supporters could see all this, and we're not football experts and most of us don't have degrees in economics. So either Wenger's intelligence is vastly overrated or us fans are extremely smart people.
There is of course a third option: That of fans vastly overrating their own intelligence.

[LDG]

Revisionism :bow:

And to answer the initial question: yes.

Did he invent the idea that going out on the piss every evening isn't conducive to performing well in sport? No.

Are you saying that he isn't some kind of bumbling idiot?

[Kano]

There is of course a third option: That of fans vastly overrating their own intelligence.

FoL delivers once again.

[Joker]

A masters is a signal of a certain type of intelligence, namely academic ability. However, in football you need different sorts of abilities, and it appears that Wenger in the last 6 years has focused far too narrowly on his technocratic ability, at the expense of other qualities needed. Sir Alex, for example, doesn't have a degree and left school with few qualifications. However, his ability to continually get success with United suggests a very strong natural intelligence to continually redevelop and remould Man Utd and keep up with changes in world football (notice how he changed their style of football by getting rid of RVN and bringing in more mobile strikers in 2006, which heralded a new period of success for them). That I believe is a greater sign of intelligence than Wenger.

[Flavs]

You simply cannot compare SAF and Wenger. there are far too many variables.

[Marc Overmars]

I'd rather have the real world intelligence Wenger has than a nack of getting the best out of a pointless team sport.

[Cripps_orig]

Dont care if he has a degree in economics and can speak however many languages

All i care is how he does with Arsenal

So the answer is obviously a no

[Power n Glory]

We're talking tactics and it's a weak area for Wenger. It always has been.

[Syn]

He is intelligent, yes. I, and many others, get that impression he’s intelligent mainly from his past interviews and comments. In post-match interviews, he might say a lot of silly things - which all managers do when they’re frustrated. But in other types of interviews, I find the logic behind what he says very sound. The observations he makes are unique and insightful and something that other managers are not capable of making. And I don’t judge that on his qualifications - there are many rubbish people about with advanced degrees - you shouldn’t judge his intelligence on paper qualifications like that. There’s a distinction to be made between someone being knowledgeable and someone being intelligent. Arsene is both.

People will consider this sort of thing and feel ‘that’s a bit retarded’. And it is retarded. But I would class it more eccentric. I’ve known many people like this who seem like bumbling idiots but are actually very bright.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycpLLINX1BE

The leap that some make that ‘he is no longer successful so he is not intelligent’ is stupid. You don’t need to be a genius to be a successful football manager. I would say, particularly at the highest level where all teams have very talented players, being a top motivator like Mourinho is probably more important.

[Özim]

Is he intelligent?
Yes without a doubt, he's well educated and clearly has gathered a great deal of knowledge over the years.

What he seems to lack is any common sense and an ability to look at a situation based on what is happening, his beliefs and values seem to prevent him from doing what is relatively obvious, this does make him come across as foolish at time, as do some of his words in the press.

I don't think being an academic is a necessity in football management however, there are a number of other skills that play a bigger part in how good a manager is, a eye for talent, ability to motivate, being able to setup your tactics to nullify other teams attacks and being able to organise players and get them playing as a group are just some of them.

What's clear is Wenger lacks some of these important skills.

[Coney]

Ferguson is a **** tbh

Perhaps, but he is still the best manager.

[Cripps_orig]

Arsene Wenger has turned down the opportunity to manage both Arsenal and France, but would not rule out such a role in the future, according to L'Equipe.

Following Laurent Blanc's resignation after a disappointing Euro 2012 campaign, Wenger is said to have been approached by the president of the French Football Federation, Noel Le Graet, with regards to the position.

The newspaper claims that, although the Gunners coach declined the offer, he has left his options open regarding potentially assuming a dual role at some point in the future.

The FFF's first choice, Didier Deschamps, has also reportedly rejected the chance to take over and now Montpellier manager Rene Girard has also dismissed reports linking him to the vacant post.

Between 2002 and 2008 Girard took charge of the national team at various youth levels, including four years with Les Bleus' Under-21 side, but he is unwilling to resume working with the national administration.

"I know the house [the national set-up]. They made me go, there is no reason that I would want to return," he told RMC Sport.

Girard guided Montpellier to their first-ever Ligue 1 title last season and the club will compete in the next edition of the Champions League.

Current Oman coach Paul Le Guen and Francis Smerecki have been suggested by L'Equipe as other possibilities to take on the role but it is also speculated that Le Graet could take longer to make an appointment.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/07/03/3217536/wenger-rejects-dual-france-and-arsenal-roles-report

Your country needs you, Wenger. Dont let them down

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

swap blanc for wenger.

[GP]

swap blanc for wenger.

:haha:

[Cripps_orig]

swap blanc for wenger.

Would be a decent swap.

Blanc did very well with Bordeaux and went on a 25 odd match undefeated run with France after the shocker of a World Cup they had.

Would take him here

[Özim]

Would be a decent swap.

Blanc did very well with Bordeaux and went on a 25 odd match undefeated run with France after the shocker of a World Cup they had.

Would take him here
To be honest, I'd swap a rubber duck for Wenger at the moment, the duck wouldn't be able to make as many bizarre decisions and couldn't be any worse tactically surely?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Can a rubber duck handle a wet, windy, wintry night at the Britannia? Ah, yeah.

[Xhaka Can’t]

To be honest, I'd swap a rubber glove up my ass for Wenger at the moment, the duck wouldn't be able to make as many bizarre decisions and couldn't be any worse tactically surely?

You'd say the same if Fergie was the Manager with Maureen as your assistant.

[Kano]

Can a rubber duck handle a wet, windy, wintry night at the Britannia? Ah, yeah.

https://twitter.com/50SOAndyGray/status/219772219633582081

[Munchies]

Wenger's bascially done fuck all from 2005 till now. All the 'bright' prospects we had left, all the world class players we did have left, and our squad looks like shit even with the 2 new signings, who's to say they'll not end up like Chamakh ? Look at our goalkeepers , all of them we've had since Lehmann have failed, and are all available for free to other clubs, even Sczenczny has shown that he's overhyped with his displays at the end of the season and in the Euros. We are a selling club, and will probably sell RVP to City as they'll offer the most money.

[LDG]

To be honest, I'd swap a rubber duck for Wenger at the moment, the duck wouldn't be able to make as many bizarre decisions and couldn't be any worse tactically surely?

I think you're quacking up.






Sorry :(

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think you're quacking up.






Sorry :(

I know we've had enough!

[Cripps_orig]

ARSENE WENGER insists he will never change the way he operates at Arsenal — even if his star players keep leaving.

Wenger and the Gunners board are under fire over Robin van Persie’s decision to quit because he cannot see the club challenging for trophies.

But Wenger follows football legend Johan Cruyff’s mantra that you can win the Champions League without splashing out millions.

The Dutch legend laid the foundations for Ajax’s Champions League glory in 1995 and helped establish Barcelona’s trademark style through the Spanish giants’ academy.

And Cruyff believes you can still be successful using a good youth set-up and by recruiting talented young players.

Gunners boss Wenger said: “I totally agree with Cruyff — and I won’t change.

“The only sad thing is that sometimes your work is destroyed by others.

“You want to see a player in his prime doing it for your club. But it does not work like that all the time.

“I am a victim of that. I lost Samir Nasri, Gael Clichy and Cesc Fabregas at an age where they should have been playing their best football for Arsenal. But I never left the club when I could have.

“I could have left 10 times to join another club but I didn’t because I have worked with the same vision and philosophy at Arsenal for the last 16 years — and that won’t change.

“Besides, money was never a motivation for me.

“And, in a similar way, people like Cruyff don’t put all their energy in building football teams with young players just for the money.

“We all do this because we want to give something back to football.”

Neither that, nor buying Lukas Podolski and Olivier Giroud for a combined £24million this summer was not enough to satisfy Van Persie.

The Dutch striker's contract runs out next year and he will not sign a new one.

He said: “I had a meeting with the boss but unfortunately it has again become clear to me that we disagree on the way Arsenal should move forward.”

RVP’s revelation led to an avalanche of criticism and even calls for Wenger to quit.

Wenger admitted: “The emotion is over-ruling analysis now. Every word is being enlarged to ridiculous height.

“Millions of people have an opinion now on it all.”

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4416509/Arsene-Wenger-Ill-never-spend-big-for-Arsenal.html

:doh:

He needs to fuck off and do this crap somewhere else then and stop using the club we love as his guinea pig

[Özim]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4416509/Arsene-Wenger-Ill-never-spend-big-for-Arsenal.html

:doh:

He needs to fuck off and do this crap somewhere else then and stop using the club we love as his guinea pig
Pretty much, the club is like his little play thing where he can do whatever he wants. He won't adapt, won't change, he's won f*ck all in 7 years and still believes in this sh*t.....UNBELIEVABLE!

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4416509/Arsene-Wenger-Ill-never-spend-big-for-Arsenal.html

:doh:

He needs to fuck off and do this crap somewhere else then and stop using the club we love as his guinea pig

It is shameful how he controls the powerless Billionaire and his team of multi millionaires.

[Cripps_orig]

Doubt it was the billionaire and the board who put the words "i won't change" in to his mouth

They arent blameless. Not by a long shot but Wenger is the man in charge of the football side of things and last i checked, we arent doing the best in the department.

[Xhaka Can’t]

For the money they pay him, they could get just about any manager in football.

Consider for a moment why they don't do that.

[selassie]

For the money they pay him, they could get just about any manager in football.

Consider for a moment why they don't do that.

This

[Globalgunner]

He wont leave because nowhere else will his grandstanding and ineptitude be tolerated. At any other club except Arsenal. he might actually be expected to win things and justify that colossal salary. It is not loyalty that keeps him here, basically he is a coward.

In England he has the ready made excuse of City, United and Chelseas billions. Paradise found.

[GP]

He wont leave because nowhere else will his grandstanding and ineptitude be tolerated. At any other club except Arsenal. he might actually be expected to win things and justify that colossal salary. It is not loyalty that keeps him here, basically he is a coward.

In England he has the ready made excuse of City, United and Chelseas billions. Paradise found.

:haha:

[Cripps_orig]

He wont leave because nowhere else will his grandstanding and ineptitude be tolerated. At any other club except Arsenal. he might actually be expected to win things and justify that colossal salary. It is not loyalty that keeps him here, basically he is a coward.

In England he has the ready made excuse of City, United and Chelseas billions. Paradise found.
Pretty much

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

those quotes are old. i remember reading them before christmas. typical media jumping on the bandwaggon and regurgitating old news to make a headline.

[Özim]

He wont leave because nowhere else will his grandstanding and ineptitude be tolerated. At any other club except Arsenal. he might actually be expected to win things and justify that colossal salary. It is not loyalty that keeps him here, basically he is a coward.

In England he has the ready made excuse of City, United and Chelseas billions. Paradise found.
Spot on, it's an easy job...pick up a large cheque no need to win anything and do whatever you want......there's isn't another club in the world where he'd get that sort of money and not be expected to deliver success.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Spot on, it's an easy job...

:haha:

Every single manager in the world is above him in the table.

[Özim]

:haha:

Every single manager in the world is above him in the table.
It's an easy job compared to what most managers have to put up with at top clubs, they don't get the luxury of failing to pick up trophies for 7 years, not many get 7 million a year either.

He's not at a small or average small club here.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It's an easy job compared to what most managers have to put up with at top clubs, they don't get the luxury of failing to pick up trophies for 7 years, not many get 7 million a year either.

He's not at a small or average small club here.

He was at an average Club when he arrived.

[Özim]

He was at an average Club when he arrived.
An average club don't win the amount of trophies we won when Graham was here, so that's nonsense. We haven't even won a European trophy in the time he's been here, we did before.

Loser managers would be queuing round the block for this job, 7 million and no need to deliver any success...that a manager's dream unless winning is important to you (which it is to the best managers).

[Xhaka Can’t]

An average club don't win the amount of trophies we won when Graham was here, so that's nonsense. We haven't even won a European trophy in the time he's been here, we did before.

Loser managers would be queuing round the block for this job, 7 million and no need to deliver any success...that a manager's dream unless winning is important to you (which it is to the best managers).

Have a look at the League positions before he came.

Find another set of comparable league positions in the entire history of the Club.

Why are none of these 'loser' Managers not finishing above him.

If you disagree on big club or not, lets compare to the Club closest to us at that point in terms of resources - Tottenham. How many of their managers have come and gone?

How many finished above him?

He may not be the guy to win us the title, but to suggest he has an easy job, that anyone can replicate what he has done, suggests you have not got the first clue about what you post.

[Özim]

Have a look at the League positions before he came.

Find another set of comparable league positions in the entire history of the Club.

Why are none of these 'loser' Managers not finishing above him.

If you disagree on big club or not, lets compare to the Club closest to us at that point in terms of resources - Tottenham. How many of their managers have come and gone?

How many finished above him?

He may not be the guy to win us the title, but to suggest he has an easy job, that anyone can replicate what he has done, suggests you have not got the first clue about what you post.
League position isn't that important to me, trophies delivered is more important...as I said before coming 4th is meaningless in every way other than financially...Id' rather win an FA Cup and feel the joy of getting to a final and being triumphant.

On a success basis, we weren't a small club, 2 league titles, an FA Cup, two league cups (when they meant something) and a CWC. Success in Europe elevates you to a new level without question and Wenger has failed to deliver in eall his time (even when in the UEFA Cup).

Spurs have changed a lot of managers, I don't necessarily agree, but they have more ambition to win then we do and in fact have won a trophy since we last won one (as have Portsmouth and Birmingham).

It's an easy job in that he doesn't have to deliver success or indeed even CL football (the club have said as much)..yet he gets 7 million a year....name one other manager on that type of salary who doesn't.

In fact name one manager who's been at a top club for 7 years and kept his job.

[Xhaka Can’t]

League position isn't that important to me, trophies delivered is more important...as I said before coming 4th is meaningless in every way other than financially...Id' rather win an FA Cup and feel the joy of getting to a final and being triumphant.

On a success basis, we weren't a small club, 2 league titles, an FA Cup, two league cups (when they meant something) and a CWC. Success in Europe elevates you to a new level without question and Wenger has failed to deliver in eall his time (even when in the UEFA Cup).

Spurs have changed a lot of managers, I don't necessarily agree, but they have more ambition to win then we do and in fact have won a trophy since we last won one (as have Portsmouth and Birmingham).

It's an easy job in that he doesn't have to deliver success or indeed even CL football (the club have said as much)..yet he gets 7 million a year....name one other manager on that type of salary who doesn't.

In fact name one manager who's been at a top club for 7 years and kept his job.

They have more ambition - look where that has them.

A £1 with a Spurs supporter on who will finish higher, going doule or quits since Wenger joined would in May have returned £65536. This amongst two teams with similar resources.

I have an ambition to fuck the brains out of Isla Fisher - aint gonna happen.

I can't name a Manager who has remained in post for so long at a top club without a trophy nor can I name a Manager that has been present during such a transition period.

I'd like a new Manager because we need to change something - players have come and gone, but he has been the constant. But to suggest he has it easy and lacks ambition, is absurd when supposedly more ambitious Clubs can never surpass us. In fact in more seasons than not, Tottenham's main ambition has been to surpass us.

[Özim]

They have more ambition - look where that has them.

A £1 with a Spurs supporter on who will finish higher, going doule or quits since Wenger joined would in May have returned £65536. This amongst two teams with similar resources.

I have an ambition to fuck the brains out of Isla Fisher - aint gonna happen.

I can't name a Manager who has remained in post for so long at a top club without a trophy nor can I name a Manager that has been present during such a transition period.

I'd like a new Manager because we need to change something - players have come and gone, but he has been the constant. But to suggest he has it easy and lacks ambition, is absurd when supposedly more ambitious Clubs can never surpass us. In fact in more seasons than not, Tottenham's main ambition has been to surpass us.
Irrelevant really, I'd rather we tried and failed then not trying at all.

Spurs came close last season but were seemingly unsettled by the Harry Redknapp saga's, they bottled it but you might argue there was a reason behind it.

It's no asburd to say he lacks ambition when all he talks about is the glory in getting a CL place, that's not the talk of a winner it's the talk of someone who is happy with what he has. Once you get a CL spot the goal is to improve, win the title or the CL, we frankly don't seem too bothered...4th is good enough.

As for Tottenham's main ambition, that's your words...I believe their ambition is to win stuff not supersede us.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Irrelevant really, I'd rather we tried and failed then not trying at all.

Spurs came close last season but were seemingly unsettled by the Harry Redknapp saga's, they bottled it but you might argue there was a reason behind it.

It's no asburd to say he lacks ambition when all he talks about is the glory in getting a CL place, that's not the talk of a winner it's the talk of someone who is happy with what he has. Once you get a CL spot the goal is to improve, win the title or the CL, we frankly don't seem too bothered...4th is good enough.

As for Tottenham's main ambition, that's your words...I believe their ambition is to win stuff not supersede us.

You make excuse after excuse for them and are deaf to all their talk of superseding us.

Even if I supported that rabble, I'd be embarrassed to make the allowances for them that you do.

£65536 - £131072 if you add 95-96 - that is the measure of where their ambition has got them.

They also have 'ambition' to have a new stadium - how is that going?

[Özim]

You make excuse after excuse for them and are deaf to all their talk of superseding us.

Even if I supported that rabble, I'd be embarrassed to make the allowances for them that you do.

£65536 - £131072 if you add 95-96 - that is the measure of where their ambition has got them.

They also have 'ambition' to have a new stadium - how is that going?
The talk I've heard is them wanting to win the title and trophies, not superseding us as you say...the fans may talk about that but they don't run the club (as we well know).

The new stadium has IMO been a total disaster, ever since we've moved it's been frankly sh*t on the pitch, I'd rather be good on the pitch and have a smaller stadium than have a large brand spanking new one and being losers all the time....and showing pride as well as making excuses for failing to win. Since the move we've had an excuse for failure and have totally changed our ambitions, a CL place is the sum of that....what a joke.

They seem to be looking for a new stadium, be interesting to see if they neglect the team as much as we have, somehow i doubt it.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The talk I've heard is them wanting to win the title and trophies, not superseding us as you say...the fans may talk about that but they don't run the club (as we well know).

The new stadium has IMO been a total disaster, ever since we've moved it's been frankly sh*t on the pitch, I'd rather be good on the pitch and have a smaller stadium than have a large brand spanking new one and being losers all the time....and showing pride as well as making excuses for failing to win. Since the move we've had an excuse for failure and have totally changed our ambitions, a CL place is the sum of that....what a joke.

They seem to be looking for a new stadium, be interesting to see if they neglect the team as much as we have, somehow i doubt it.

£135,072 - If they're not neglecting the squad, they're fucking incompetent.

You make so many excuses for them, it is laughable! :lol: <---see?

[Özim]

£135,072 - If they're not neglecting the squad, they're fucking incompetent.

You make so many excuses for them, it is laughable! :lol: <---see?
Hey at least they spend money on players unlike us, we just rip off the fans with the highest ticket prices around. I don't really give a sh*t about them though, what I care about is what we're up to...and that's frankly a joke

:lol: <---see?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Hey at least they spend money on players unlike us, we just rip off the fans with the highest ticket prices around. I don't really give a sh*t about them though, what I care about is what we're up to...and that's frankly a joke

:lol: <---see?

Hey!

I suppose I should be flattered, but come up with your own material! :angry:

[Syn]

A £1 with a Spurs supporter on who will finish higher, going doule or quits since Wenger joined would in May have returned £65536.

That's awesome.

[Ollie the Optimist]

given we have spent close to 100 million in the last year, its not like wenger is not spending money, he has actually made some good signings. podolski, arteta, merts, and to some degree santos.

the problem however is, when spurs make a 12 million signing like vertonghan they get called brilliant buyers and what a good deal and cheap too, we do that and our fnas moan because we dont spend 25 million on a player. its like we believe the more you spend the better you get, torres is proof that theory is a load of utter shit

[Özim]

and how much have we raised by selling players in that time? With RVP going I think you'll find most of the money spent has been recouped.

In addition we've lost all our best players and signed players below their level....we're never going to get anywhere this way.

Oh and as for the last bit, what about Drogba, or Aguero....seems like they were pretty good.

[Cripps_orig]

Wenger spends money

Its what he spends it on thats the problem

[Cripps_orig]

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/arsenal-transfers.html

[Ollie the Optimist]

Wenger spends money

Its what he spends it on thats the problem


and in the last year, apart from gervinho who can still come good, he has brought pretty dam well

[Özim]

and in the last year, apart from gervinho who can still come good, he has brought pretty dam well
Ox Chamberlain was good, the rest I'd happily have left and signed some top quality instead.

That's near enough 41 million, for that we could have signed maybe 2-3 quality players, if we played our cards right.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Ox Chamberlain was good, the rest I'd happily have left and signed some top quality instead.

That's near enough 41 million, for that we could have signed maybe 2-3 quality players, if we played our cards right.

i might be worng here but pretty sure you said merts was top quality before (might have been someone else htough)

arteta, merts, ox were great signings who aided us massively, santos did well and so did yossi. gervinho can still come good and with a hundred cap international striker and another decent striker he is buying well atm. if it wasnt for rvp, we would have very strong squad

[Özim]

i might be worng here but pretty sure you said merts was top quality before (might have been someone else htough)

arteta, merts, ox were great signings who aided us massively, santos did well and so did yossi. gervinho can still come good and with a hundred cap international striker and another decent striker he is buying well atm. if it wasnt for rvp, we would have very strong squad
IMO those players aren't the kind of players that are going to help us win trophies...good if you want 4th place but if you're setting your sights higher you need players a level above.

Never been a fan of Mertesacker, find him slow and cumbersome...a player with decent pace leaves him for dead.

[Cripps_orig]

and in the last year, apart from gervinho who can still come good, he has brought pretty dam well

From the link i posted above

Season 12/13
Lukas Podolski £11,000,000
Olivier Giroud £13,000,000

Season 11/12
Carl Jenkinson - Shit
Gervinho - Shit
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain - Young and might come good but not what was needed in the short term
Joel Campbell - Shit
Park Chu-Young - :haha:
André Santos - Had his moments but could have got better
Mikel Arteta - Average
Per Mertesacker - Looked good before injury
Thomas Eisfeld - Who?

Cant comment on Giroud or Pod as neither have played for us

So id say thats more than Gervinho being shit

[jelgoon]

I know you are Ollie The Optmist but i think you are over-egging most of those players. I dont agree that Merts aided us massively at all neither did Arteta although he did get good for the last five or six games that he played. Ox who is going to be very good hardly played. Gervinho and Park were poor


i might be worng here but pretty sure you said merts was top quality before (might have been someone else htough)

arteta, merts, ox were great signings who aided us massively, santos did well and so did yossi. gervinho can still come good and with a hundred cap international striker and another decent striker he is buying well atm. if it wasnt for rvp, we would have very strong squad

[Ollie the Optimist]

IMO those players aren't the kind of players that are going to help us win trophies...good if you want 4th place but if you're setting your sights higher you need players a level above.

but they are players that give you the best foundations to build a title winning team, players who work hard, regular conssitnet good performances who allow those with the talent to push you further.

look at united, they dont have many world class players like messi etc, but what they have is 10 players who are willing to give everything to the shirt, and allow the world class players to do what htye do best. we are building on that now, if rvp hadnt fucked it up. we dont need a team of 11 messis, we need a team of 8/9 artetas with two world class players.

[Özim]

but they are players that give you the best foundations to build a title winning team, players who work hard, regular conssitnet good performances who allow those with the talent to push you further.

look at united, they dont have many world class players like messi etc, but what they have is 10 players who are willing to give everything to the shirt, and allow the world class players to do what htye do best. we are building on that now, if rvp hadnt fucked it up. we dont need a team of 11 messis, we need a team of 8/9 artetas with two world class players.
Man U have Ferguson, he motivates players and gets the best out of average players but even he could not work his magic with his current team which has plenty of average players.

I don't think those players are the players you build the foundations of a winning team on, I think the foundations come from your top players and are enhanced by finding players who complement them.

They always use to say a top team has a strong spine, we don't seem to follow that rule.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

but they are players that give you the best foundations to build a title winning team, players who work hard, regular conssitnet good performances who allow those with the talent to push you further.

look at united, they dont have many world class players like messi etc, but what they have is 10 players who are willing to give everything to the shirt, and allow the world class players to do what htye do best. we are building on that now, if rvp hadnt fucked it up. we dont need a team of 11 messis, we need a team of 8/9 artetas with two world class players.

7 years after moving to the emirates the last thing we should be talking about is building foundations. we had 7 years to build a foundation, and tbh we should be challenging for the title now, yet we are worse off. in fact, we let a solid foundation of players go in 07/08; we had sagna, toure, cesc, gallas, hleb, adebayor, flamini, eduardo, song, a half fit van persie. thats what i call a good foundation. where are a majority of those players now? why is our squad getting worse year on year? why are we still experiencing the same problems seven years into the stadium move? why do we keep 'building foundations', only for us to go back to square one?

i understand building a title winning team is not as easy as clicking your fingers but theoretically, we should be challenging for the title, if we go by what our board told us prior to the stadium move; that a new stadium will provide a greater opportunity to compete with the elite clubs. instead we are in the middle of a civil war and are constantly underusing our resources.

7 years into the stadium move, we are still talking about building a foundation. to me thats not good enough.

[Cripps_orig]

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger believes the future looks bright for China, and that they have all the tools to become a major force in football.

The Frenchman's comments come prior to Arsenal's pre-season tour of Asia, where his side will take in matches in Hong Kong, Malaysia and China.

Wenger drew comparisons of China to Japan, a country he managed in prior to his role in north London.

"The China league is a bit like the Japan league, where I was in 1994," Wenger said on his club's official website. "That was the third year of professional football in Japan and it is similar in China, but it is not enough.

"To make a sport popular you need the elite and you need a strong basis of the number of people who practice the game."

The Arsenal chief points to China's growing role both politically and economically on the international stage as a major reason for why he thinks the sport will grow.

"Usually, sport follows the economic power, and the economic power is moving at the moment from Europe to China and Brazil," he added.

"These countries, if they have the desire, they will have the players. The history is in Europe - but how long can we resist the power of China if they really want to develop football? The future will tell.

"We have an organisation that starts at a very young age, with the same ingredients in our coaching lessons. They are all based on intelligence of movement and, of course, passion and motivation.

"To make a career at the top level you need a fantastic motivation. Maybe only two per cent of the population has the required motivation to make a massive career. You can love football without being ready to give everything for it.

"But if you want to be a great football player it has to mean everything for you. This kind of motivation comes naturally if you have a good basis of education in football."

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/07/10/3232297/arsenal-manager-wenger-china-can-be-a-footballing-force

We'll probably buy some Chinese Pub Teamer this summer

Hope hes as good for us as Park and that Miyachi dude have been

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

yeah but the board bought park for marketing reasons

[Cripps_orig]

http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/features/120709/why-you-shouldnt-feel-sorry-arsene-wenger-and-arsenal-176164

:lol:

[Letters]

http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/features/120709/why-you-shouldnt-feel-sorry-arsene-wenger-and-arsenal-176164

:lol:
:lol: Indeed. What awful analysis. The best they could do is list 5 players we 'stole' from other clubs the eldest of whom was 21, nowhere near the finished article. The only player we spend folding money on was Nasri. van Persie was £2.75m according to that article, he was 21 and in his last season for Feyenoord he'd scored 6 goals in 33 games.

Crap WUMming all round :rose:

[Injury Time]

Wenger is also thin. :sulk:

[Joker]

It's not really Wumming. It's true that a lot of the young players we sign spent a lot of their developmental years in the youth systems of other clubs. You say 21 is not the finished article, that's true, but most of the groundwork on that player has already been done, and it was Feyenoord who did it.

The way Wenger speaks, it's as if we mould and develop players from the age of 13 onwards, and we build them up step by step. For some players this is true, like Wilshere and Gibbs (although Gibbs started at Wimbledon, he left when they disbanded and joined us at 15, so I think we deserve most of the credit for his development). But for most others, we sign them from other clubs who aren't fully compensated for their efforts.

Apart from Gibbs and Wilshere, name a first team player at Arsenal who's been at the club throughout their life, or joined our academy at a very young age (14/15)?

Letters, you frequently complain about City buying players and say it's unfair on the selling clubs who can't compete with their wages, but doesn't that reflect the relationship between us and some of these French and Championship clubs from whom we take players from? They're much poorer than us, and having spent so much money developing these players, they get poached by big clubs like Arsenal who offer the players wages that these clubs can't match.

[Letters]

OK, other clubs have often done the groundwork but there's still work to be done.
Henry was 22 when he joined us but there's no doubt he developed under him. To deny Wenger credit for that is pure revisionism.

I agree with your last paragraph. We are, relatively speaking, one of the 'haves' in football. We cherry picked Walcott and Ox from Southampton. We can offer wages clubs like that can't. The whole of football is unfair because of the increasing gaps between the haves and have nots. At least though our money is earned from previous success which has built history and fanbase. And we still have to live within our means. We can't go round spending more than 100% of our total income just on wages like City have done because our owner is a rich sugar-daddy who will write off any debts.

[LDG]

I don't blame other clubs tbh. I blame the players. They all have their eyes on the money, and ultimately it's them that make the choice. Loyalty is non-existent in football.

So, in that respect, given the time we have invested in players (and by that token, the time their youth clubs invested in them), I can understand why Wenger is pissed off. And as far as the clubs we bought them from at a tender age?? Gimme a break. They wanted the money, and I don't remember any of them kicking up a fuss. Feyenoord practically bit our hands off trying to get rid.

As far as I'm aware, Wenger wanted to keep Cesc, Nasri, RVP et al. Maybe the board felt different, but Wenger didn't want to sell them.

[Power n Glory]

You talk about the gap in football between the rich and poor clubs but without outside investment, clubs like City don't have a chance of breaking into the top four. They can't keep their best players because the top clubs keep poaching them.

[Letters]

You talk about the gap in football between the rich and poor clubs but without outside investment, clubs like City don't have a chance of breaking into the top four. They can't keep their best players because the top clubs keep poaching them.
I know. The whole system is wrong where the financial rewards throughout the game are so ridiculously skewed.

[Özim]

I don't blame other clubs tbh. I blame the players. They all have their eyes on the money, and ultimately it's them that make the choice. Loyalty is non-existent in football.

So, in that respect, given the time we have invested in players (and by that token, the time their youth clubs invested in them), I can understand why Wenger is pissed off. And as far as the clubs we bought them from at a tender age?? Gimme a break. They wanted the money, and I don't remember any of them kicking up a fuss. Feyenoord practically bit our hands off trying to get rid.

As far as I'm aware, Wenger wanted to keep Cesc, Nasri, RVP et al. Maybe the board felt different, but Wenger didn't want to sell them.
Sorry but that's not true, there's a number of players we had to pay compensation for after their clubs complained and we had to give Barca Van Bronckhorst in one particular deal.

Anelka was another we had to pay up for after PSG complained.

It's slightly different in that we take advantage of loopholes, but we're effectively cherry picking from smaller less desirable clubs on a smaller scale than Man City are and have been for years.

It's not as big news as they either have no choice or aren't big enough to kick up a fuss.

[Power n Glory]

Wasn't the fee for Nasri supposed to be some sort of compensatio for City tapping up Nasri?

[Letters]

It's slightly different in that we take advantage of loopholes, but we're effectively cherry picking from smaller less desirable clubs on a smaller scale than Man City are and have been for years.

It's not as big news as they either have no choice or aren't big enough to kick up a fuss.
And we're doing it with our own money, earned from previous success.
And we're not buying players in their prime for money we couldn't normally afford but a billionaire owner will write off the loss.
And we're not paying said players wages we couldn't normally afford (again, City's wage bill is more than 100% of their income. It's ridiculous that a club is allowed to operate like that)

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

I know. The whole system is wrong where the financial rewards throughout the game are so ridiculously skewed.
Indeed. It's all about scale.

Especially now, with EPPP coming in, Premier League clubs can essentially cherry pick youngsters from FL clubs for pretty nominal fees. And even that is weighted in favour of the bigger Premier League clubs, over the smaller ones.

[Özim]

And we're doing it with our own money, earned from previous success.
And we're not buying players in their prime for money we couldn't normally afford but a billionaire owner will write off the loss.
And we're not paying said players wages we couldn't normally afford (again, City's wage bill is more than 100% of their income. It's ridiculous that a club is allowed to operate like that)
Doesn't matter, it's still poaching of sorts.

Whether we do it with out money or not is irrelevant, Wenger is just complaining about players leaving, they'll leave because he's not delivering and they feel their interests are best served elsewhere, just like the young players left those other clubs to join us.

We're not morally superior in this sense because some of the things we do are pretty questionnable, ripping off the fans being the most obvious. I'm tired of hearing Wenger and co complaining about other clubs doing this that and the other, he needs to look closer to home and look at why this is happening....and no it's not just money.

He's oblivious to the reasons players leave, for him it only because of money.

[Letters]

There are differences, Zimm, and they are relevant.

One obvious difference is that Southampton aren't a direct rival. They're in the same division now, but they haven't been. Even now they are they're not going to be a rival for a CL place.
We bought promising players young who were not the finished product and developed them. We didn't just cherry pick the star players of our direct rivals, just because we could.
In fact, City weren't even our rivals when they started all this, they were a mid-table side. Fuelled by the billionaire backers they've bought players from bigger clubs than them to leapfrog them.
The idea that a club achieving success that way can be given the same credit as clubs who have done it by building on previous success is ludicrous.

There have always been haves and have nots, there always will be. And the lot of the smaller clubs is often to lose their brighter prospects to bigger clubs. Arsenal have a bigger stadium than Southampton, a bigger fan base. We'll always have more money. But at least the smaller clubs got well compensated for those players and could hope to replace them with that money. Although we were well compensated for Nasri it's not so easy to replace him as
a) There aren't so many players of that quality around and
b) Those players who are of that quality are going to be swayed by the megabucks that clubs like City are throwing at them, wages that even a club like ourselves can't afford.

The other thing is the rather more subtle tactic which Chelsea used - there were pretty strong rumours linking us with SWP back in the day. Chelsea doubled the price, bought him and stuck him on the bench. Just 'cos they could. It's not easy to compete with clubs who can do that sort of thing.

The gap is way too big now, to the point there the only way City could ever have achieved success is the way they have. That isn't City's fault. But to compare what we've done - chanelling money down the game - to City cherry picking players from rival clubs and blundering their way success by sheer weight of spending is going out of your way to have a pop at the club you claim to support.

I've no idea why you brought ripping off the fans into is as that's nothing to do with what we're discussing, you're just moving the goalposts there.

[Power n Glory]

I can't agree with that. The smaller clubs aren't well compensated. Not in the past anyway. We were poaching talented young players for peanuts and then selling them on for millions. These are rare players that could make a huge a difference for the smaller clubs but they get poached for small fees. For a small club to have a world beater on their hands and that could potentially be worth £30-£40m in years to come but we pay a few million! They're not well compensated and they can't easily replace the player, they have to wait to see who else develops. That's why the premium is going up on young players because they know certain players are worth more than what they're selling them for.

In Brazil, certain clubs aren't accepting peanuts from European clubs anymore because the next Ronaldinho is worth more than a few million. We've actually contributed to prices going up on certain young players because they've seen what we've done with guys like Anelka. That's why we're paying high prices for guys like Theo and Ox.

[Letters]

Southampton had £20m for Oxo and Theo. Hardly peanuts for a club at that level.

[Syn]

Plus the £30-40m players transfer fees only happen if they're playing in the highest league in their country. Nobody's going to pay £30m for a kid from the championship. We get an Oxlade or a Fabregas in, work with their raw ability and help - in no small way - their path to becoming top players. Is it all us? Of course not. The shitter club they were at (Southampton, Barcelona etc.) would've put some work in.

The main difference I find is that when we buy a kid from 'lesser' clubs, they actually need the money more than they need the player. We steal some from Barcelona because we're able to offer them professional contracts before Spanish teams can. But elsewhere, I can't remember us getting a player in a deal that hurt the club. Ramsey and Cardiff is perhaps one - I think they wanted him to stay another season, but in any case he was on his way to Man Utd before we jumped in.

I don't know why it's fashionable to try to argue that Wenger is a hypocrite. We're not whiter than white on many issues. The way we handle transfers, however, Wenger is true to his word. I actually think we're nowhere near ruthless enough in that respect.

[Power n Glory]

Southampton had £20m for Oxo and Theo. Hardly peanuts for a club at that level.

That's the situation now. Prices have gone up because they know who they're selling to and what we think they could be worth. We never uses to pay those prices before and it's pretty patronising to talk like that when we could make £50m to £60m off the pair if sold at the right time. It's bullshit reasoning to suggest these players aren't worth that much to smaller clubs as if they can easily be replaced.

If City decided to poach Wilshere for £20m would we feel we've been compensated well considering we trained him from young for years? I bloody doubt it because it's the principle of the matter and only a fraction of our transfer fees go back on the field and it may be the same case for smaller clubs. It's probably worse on fact because they can't easily lure the next wonderkid to sign for their small club so their soley dependent on youth development. If we solely depended on our academy, we'd be screwed because we know the profits made won't go back on to the pitch and if they did, we'd never be able to attract the same sort of quality in players sold because we'd be too far down the table for such clubs to even look at us. Some or you have a very warped and biased perception on this matter.

[V-Pig]

As Letters said, it's all relative to the club at that level. If a shit player comes from Arsenal, they'll still command fees/wages higher than a player of the same standard from the Championship, because it's the all about the level of the club. So of course £20m for a player like Wilshere would be an insult, because he's clearly (barring injuries and the like) has a fuckload of potential. Whereas if he were playing for some shitty Championship side, £20m would be too much to pay because of the financial level they're at. The financial level at which they're prepared to lose a good player is obviously less because less money means more to them, playing as they do in the league below and having far fewer resources.

Is there any need to get pissy and talk about "bullshit reasoning" when Letters points this out? This is simple economics. You have to give a richer/bigger organisation a bigger financial motivation to do something they don't particularly want to do, like sell a good player.

[Power n Glory]

As Letters said, it's all relative to the club at that level. If a shit player comes from Arsenal, they'll still command fees/wages higher than a player of the same standard from the Championship, because it's the all about the level of the club. So of course £20m for a player like Wilshere would be an insult, because he's clearly (barring injuries and the like) has a fuckload of potential. Whereas if he were playing for some shitty Championship side, £20m would be too much to pay because of the financial level they're at. The financial level at which they're prepared to lose a good player is obviously less because less money means more to them, playing as they do in the league below and having far fewer resources.

Is there any need to get pissy and talk about "bullshit reasoning" when Letters points this out? This is simple economics. You have to give a richer/bigger organisation a bigger financial motivation to do something they don't particularly want to do, like sell a good player.

It means the smaller clubs have no chance of making it to that elite level and the status quo is maintained. Without a sugar daddy model, these clubs will stay where they are. Basic economics? Not so sure about that. Sweat house style exploitation, maybe.

[fakeyank]

It means the smaller clubs have no chance of making it to that elite level and the status quo is maintained. Without a sugar daddy model, these clubs will stay where they are. Basic economics? Not so sure about that. Sweat house style exploitation, maybe.

:gp:

[V-Pig]

Well, realistically, that's capitalism. Why would a football club pay more than it has to for a player without special reason? Generally, they'll pay whatever the club will accept. And if Arsenal started deliberately paying massively over the odds for Championship players they'd soon be reduced to a lesser level themselves.

[Letters]

It means the smaller clubs have no chance of making it to that elite level and the status quo is maintained. Without a sugar daddy model, these clubs will stay where they are. Basic economics? Not so sure about that. Sweat house style exploitation, maybe.
The reason these clubs have no chance of making it without serious financial backing is NOT because larger clubs buy their better players. That has always happened and obviously top players will want to play at top clubs. Le Tissier is an example of a player who chose to stay at a smaller club because he was happier there when he could clearly have made it at a bigger club and achieved more in his career but he's the exception that proves the rule. Generally players who come through in lower division clubs and show enough promise to make it at the top will be bought by clubs at the top. The players will want to move up the ladder, the club get financially compensated. And yes, the sums I quoted above wouldn't have been paid 20 years ago but that's irrelevant because wages and transfer fees throughout the game were proportionally different. We bought Ian Wright from Palace for about £2.5m. Peanuts now but serious money for a player back in the day.

The reason clubs struggle to move up the ladder is because the TV and prize money is so horribly distorted in favour of the top clubs. THAT is what maintains the status quo. Players at lower clubs showing potential and moving to bigger clubs has always happened and it never stopped clubs from moving up or down the ladders when the levels of money in the game were less obscene and there was less difference between the haves and have nots.

[Kano]

50 - 9
60 - 7
70 - 6
80 - 4
90 - 5
00 – 3
10 – 3

amount of clubs that win the title per decade - clearly a trend. so where did it start?

[Letters]

50 - 9
60 - 7
70 - 6
80 - 4
90 - 5
00 – 3
10 – 3

amount of clubs that win the title per decade - clearly a trend. so where did it start?
Sky Sports. "A Whole New Ball Game".
They weren't kidding :(

[Kano]

The reason i posted that is because of the argument that in the ‘good old days’ there were new champions almost every season. you can see that over the years it has steadily declined and the past decade really isn’t that different from the 80s

[Letters]

Maybe it started a little before that actually, but that and the rise and rise of the CL have definitely accelerated it.

[Power n Glory]

The reason these clubs have no chance of making it without serious financial backing is NOT because larger clubs buy their better players. That has always happened and obviously top players will want to play at top clubs. Le Tissier is an example of a player who chose to stay at a smaller club because he was happier there when he could clearly have made it at a bigger club and achieved more in his career but he's the exception that proves the rule. Generally players who come through in lower division clubs and show enough promise to make it at the top will be bought by clubs at the top. The players will want to move up the ladder, the club get financially compensated. And yes, the sums I quoted above wouldn't have been paid 20 years ago but that's irrelevant because wages and transfer fees throughout the game were proportionally different. We bought Ian Wright from Palace for about £2.5m. Peanuts now but serious money for a player back in the day.

The reason clubs struggle to move up the ladder is because the TV and prize money is so horribly distorted in favour of the top clubs. THAT is what maintains the status quo. Players at lower clubs showing potential and moving to bigger clubs has always happened and it never stopped clubs from moving up or down the ladders when the levels of money in the game were less obscene and there was less difference between the haves and have nots.

It's a combination of both. The best players constantly moving to top teams means it's difficult for a small club to build a solid team and the money in the game is what maintains the status quo. Take international football for example. When a nation finally develops a group of talented players or the 'golden generation' they usually do a lot better in international tournaments. Spain is a good example. They were garbage 15 years ago but now they've developed a solid group of players that dominate on the world stage. The same thing happened with France from 98/2000. African Nations like Ghana and Ivory Coast have risen and become tough teams to beat because they have talented squad.

It's not just the prize and TV money alone. Aren't lower league teams and relegated teams getting more money than they used to? That's not going to change anything. If there wasn't such a huge dependency on the transfer window for team improvement and mobility, we'd see an emphasis on Academy's and youth development as seen in International football. That would change things.

As for the compensation talk....I'm not talking about 20 years ago. I'm talking under Wenger and recent history. Let's not talk as if we treat all clubs fairly and they're happy to sell compared to what City do. Example, we courted Chamakh in public, offered a very low fee because we knew he wanted to join us plus he's in his final year....his club wanted more money but we told them no and waited for him to be a free agent. Plus,we still sign supposed wonder kids for small fees. I'm not talking about the early 90s.

[Letters]

Chamakh :lol:
Yeah, I bet his old team are gutted he's not with them any more!

If we sign wonder kids for small fees then the key word there is 'kids'. We're taking a risk that they may not developed as hoped. Walcott was a kid anyway and we still paid a lot for him. I'm not going to argue that Southampton's promotion to the PL is a direct result of the money we've given them for him and Ox but losing those players doesn't seem to have harmed them too much as they're back in the top division.

Lower league teams and relegated probably are getting more money than they used to, but if they're getting twice as much as they used, while PL teams are getting 10 times as much as they used to and wages and transfer fees are 10 times what they used to then they're still worse off overall.
(I made those figures up, obviously, but I think the gaps have got bigger and the transfer fees and wages have gone up exponentially)

[Power n Glory]

Chamakh :lol:
Yeah, I bet his old team are gutted he's not with them any more!

If we sign wonder kids for small fees then the key word there is 'kids'. We're taking a risk that they may not developed as hoped. Walcott was a kid anyway and we still paid a lot for him. I'm not going to argue that Southampton's promotion to the PL is a direct result of the money we've given them for him and Ox but losing those players doesn't seem to have harmed them too much as they're back in the top division.

Lower league teams and relegated probably are getting more money than they used to, but if they're getting twice as much as they used, while PL teams are getting 10 times as much as they used to and wages and transfer fees are 10 times what they used to then they're still worse off overall.
(I made those figures up, obviously, but I think the gaps have got bigger and the transfer fees and wages have gone up exponentially)


losing those players doesn't seem to have harmed them too much as they're back in the top division.

Unbelievable. Then what are we complaining about?

This is a double standard because you're saying it's okay for us to cherry pick from the smaller clubs and talk as if it doesn't harm them and that the money they get compensates. But it's a different set of rules for Arsenal when City do it to us. Why is it damaging to us and not them? You always argue that we're in stagnation, so why is that?

[Letters]

I've explained why above. Because it's far harder for us to replace those players.

Walcott and Ox weren't Southampton's star players, they were up and coming prospects who were always going to go to bigger clubs if they continued to develop. Nasri, Fabregas and RvP were our best players and we're at a higher level so there's far fewer players of that level to try and replace them with.
And with clubs like City and Chelsea able to outbid us for players of that level and pay far higher wages than we can it's very hard for us to compete for those players.

[Power n Glory]

I've explained why above. Because it's far harder for us to replace those players.

Walcott and Ox weren't Southampton's star players, they were up and coming prospects who were always going to go to bigger clubs if they continued to develop. Nasri, Fabregas and RvP were our best players and we're at a higher level so there's far fewer players of that level to try and replace them with.
And with clubs like City and Chelsea able to outbid us for players of that level and pay far higher wages than we can it's very hard for us to compete for those players.

I disagree because it's just as hard for them to replace those players. Maybe even harder because these guys have the potential to become world class players. Once they lose them, they have no chance of signing another player with such potential.

[Letters]

World class players aren't going to hang around at a Championship, or even a mid-table PL side, anyway :shrug:

[PGFC]

World class players aren't going to hang around at a Championship, or even a mid-table PL side, anyway :shrug:

Unless, of course, they enjoy being the king big dick at a minor club, I see Bale's signed another 4 year contract.

[Power n Glory]

World class players aren't going to hang around at a Championship, or even a mid-table PL side, anyway :shrug:

The scouting system has changed and now players are moving at a much younger age. That wasn't always the case. Most players would usually get a few seasons under their belt with their first club. That doesn't happen now.

[Joker]

Well, realistically, that's capitalism. Why would a football club pay more than it has to for a player without special reason? Generally, they'll pay whatever the club will accept. And if Arsenal started deliberately paying massively over the odds for Championship players they'd soon be reduced to a lesser level themselves.

Well, you could argue that when City buy our players, it's just capitalism as well. They are richer, more successful in recent years and can offer players more. It's the free market in Labour. And when people bemoan that City distort the market by offering huge wages and transfer fees, that's not a distortion, that's demand and supply. If you believe in the free market (which it seems a fair number of Wenger and/or Kroenke supporters are) then you can't compel City to offer lower wages as it's their free choice of what package they offer employees.

[Joker]

And if you think the relationship between Premiership club and those in the Championship is mutually beneficial, read this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2053755/Save-starlets-Fans-plan-mass-protest-controversial-youth-academy-plan.html

The new EPP and academy system will make it much easier for Premiership clubs to poach young players from all over the country, and will damage clubs in the lower division. Sure, it's not Arsenal just at fault here, it's the whole premiership, but unequal exchange and "exploitation" goes on at all levels, and we can't feel sorry for ourselves when Man City buy our players, as the gap in power between us is much less than the gap between us and the teams from whom we take youngsters.

[LDG]

And if you think the relationship between Premiership club and those in the Championship is mutually beneficial, read this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2053755/Save-starlets-Fans-plan-mass-protest-controversial-youth-academy-plan.html

The new EPP and academy system will make it much easier for Premiership clubs to poach young players from all over the country, and will damage clubs in the lower division. Sure, it's not Arsenal just at fault here, it's the whole premiership, but unequal exchange and "exploitation" goes on at all levels, and we can't feel sorry for ourselves when Man City buy our players, as the gap in power between us is much less than the gap between us and the teams from whom we take youngsters.

Which is why it is annoying.

Because the players that leave us are established players. And they're only leaving for money.

Players leave the smaller clubs to develop, as well as to increase their wages. Let's face it. Every you player dreams of playing in the premiership.

But it's much more to do with football than it is for the likes of Nasri, RVP et al.

[Letters]

And if you think the relationship between Premiership club and those in the Championship is mutually beneficial, read this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2053755/Save-starlets-Fans-plan-mass-protest-controversial-youth-academy-plan.html

The new EPP and academy system will make it much easier for Premiership clubs to poach young players from all over the country, and will damage clubs in the lower division. Sure, it's not Arsenal just at fault here, it's the whole premiership, but unequal exchange and "exploitation" goes on at all levels, and we can't feel sorry for ourselves when Man City buy our players, as the gap in power between us is much less than the gap between us and the teams from whom we take youngsters.

That article is about something that will happen though which will of course make it harder for smaller clubs.
My discussion with PnG is about the way things have been.

[Joker]

That article is about something that will happen though which will of course make it harder for smaller clubs.
My discussion with PnG is about the way things have been.

And you mention TV money as a reason for the widening inequality. That is a big factor, but we were one of the big 5 that paved the way for the formation of the EPL and breakway from the Football League, and this was motivated by greed, as the 5 clubs (Man Utd, Tottenham, Liverpool, Arsenal and Everton) didn't want to share the TV money with all the clubs in the football league.


The managing director of London Weekend Television (LWT) Greg Dyke met with the representatives of the "big five" football clubs in England in 1990. The meeting was to pave the way for a break away from the Football League. Dyke believed that it would be more lucrative for LWT if only the larger clubs in the country were featured on national television and wanted to establish whether the clubs would be interested in a larger share of television rights money.

The fundamental difference between the old Football League and the breakaway league (what became the Premier League) is that the money in the breakaway league would only be divided between the clubs active in that division whilst it was shared between all Football League clubs in the old First Division.

The five clubs decided it was a good idea and decided to press ahead with it, however the league would have no credibility without the backing of The Football Association and so David Dein of Arsenal F.C. held talks to see whether the FA were receptive to the idea. The FA did not enjoy an amicable relationship with the Football League at the time and considered it as a way to weaken the Football League's position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_of_the_Premier_League

If the formation of the Premier League opened a cap of worms and was the start of the "Big Bang" liberalisation, our board deserve at least part of the blame. Perhaps if this hadn't happened, clubs like City wouldn't have needed a sugar daddy to compete with the big boys, especially as the original system was more egalitarian.

[Letters]

Obviously the big clubs have no reason to oppose, and every reason to back, developments which will benefit the big clubs.
Because we are one.
If we were complicit in the formation of the PL then yes, we deserve part of the blame for the current state of football.


Somewhat ironic that only 2 of those 'big 5' have ever won the thing since the PL was formed.

[Marc Overmars]

Which is why it is annoying.

Because the players that leave us are established players. And they're only leaving for money.

Players leave the smaller clubs to develop, as well as to increase their wages. Let's face it. Every you player dreams of playing in the premiership.

But it's much more to do with football than it is for the likes of Nasri, RVP et al.

I'm not sure really, the best players whether we like it or not want to win major trophies, to satisfy their egos if anything. That's a footballing reason to move clubs as well.

As Lettuce says, there have always been haves and have nots in football. I don't think there's a moral high ground to be had here, it's just the way the system is. We exploit it when it suits us but we also get butt fucked ourselves.

[LDG]

I'm not sure really, the best players whether we like it or not want to win major trophies, to satisfy their egos if anything. That's a footballing reason to move clubs as well.

As Lettuce says, there have always been haves and have nots in football. I don't think there's a moral high ground to be had here, it's just the way the system is. We exploit it when it suits us but we also get butt fucked ourselves.

But there was a team that could win trophies forming right there in front of them. I mean, look at the side we could have had without anyone leaving:

Schhkjdsb/a

Sagna Kos Verms Clichy

Song

Nasri Cesc

Walcott RVP Arshavin


People talk about ambition, but those players there, should have won us a trophy.

All of them say Wenger is a genius. So it can't be that.

So what is it?

[Power n Glory]

But there was a team that could win trophies forming right there in front of them. I mean, look at the side we could have had without anyone leaving:

Schhkjdsb/a

Sagna Kos Verms Clichy

Song

Nasri Cesc

Walcott RVP Arshavin


People talk about ambition, but those players there, should have won us a trophy.

All of them say Wenger is a genius. So it can't be that.

So what is it?

That team can't defend!

[LDG]

That team can't defend!

Clichy was right to bugger off then.

[Syn]

But there was a team that could win trophies forming right there in front of them. I mean, look at the side we could have had without anyone leaving:


Exactly. That's something I've been saying for a while. From my view, Wenger hasn't suddenly turned from a winning manager to a crap manager. He is visibly frustrated because he's arguing the same thing you are - that if players had been a bit more patient, we'd have become a force right now. 12 years ago he was allowed a bit more time to build strong squads. Good players weren't leaving as quickly not because of the fact that the club was doing well, e.g. Vieira was ready to leave the team at its peak in 2004. But our wages were more competitive with top other clubs at that stage. As soon as Chelsea and, now, Man City got a lot of money, the patience of players to stick around has fallen. I'm not interested in blaming the players for that - or suggesting that money is the only factor in their decision to leave. It's just a trend that cannot be ignored even accounting for a lack of success.

[Özim]

Success isn't as simple as sticking 11 good players on the pitch, there's a lot more to it....including making sure the balance of the team is right and the players can play together, tactics, motivation etc etc

None of Wenger's teams post 2005 have been cohesive enough, defensively often suspect and wasteful up front, he's always focussed far too much on the passing side and the midfield (which has also lacked steel).

Why would players leave to achieve success....well it's simple after seeing him fail to deliver in 7 years it's not hard to see why players don't believe anymore, we've seen the same pattern pretty much every season with no real signs of it changing.

Sure they say Wenger is a great man etc etc and he is to them as we've seen he treats his players unbelievably well, but I think they know that on the pitch he's not quite able to deliver anymore, his ideals are now more important than success and the club won't invest enough on quality players.

[LDG]

Success isn't as simple as sticking 11 good players on the pitch, there's a lot more to it....including making sure the balance of the team is right and the players can play together, tactics, motivation etc etc

None of Wenger's teams post 2005 have been cohesive enough, defensively often suspect and wasteful up front, he's always focussed far too much on the passing side and the midfield (which has also lacked steel).

Why would players leave to achieve success....well it's simple after seeing him fail to deliver in 7 years it's not hard to see why players don't believe anymore, we've seen the same pattern pretty much every season with no real signs of it changing.

Sure they say Wenger is a great man etc etc and he is to them as we've seen he treats his players unbelievably well, but I think they know that on the pitch he's not quite able to deliver anymore, his ideals are now more important than success and the club won't invest enough on quality players.

Without doubt, the manager has made mistakes too. I accept that, and I am angered by that too.

I've always said that some of the youth could have done with quality back-up/experience to help us along.

But I wasn't talking about that.

I was talking about players jumping ship, when it's quite obvious there was a good side forming. I think Syn may have summed it up better than I, but please don't use this as another way to bash the manager. There have been players there, big enough and ugly enough to have repoaid some of the faith (blind in some cases) the manager showed in them. And that is why he is frustrated....

I mean come on. Even you have to admit that, on paper at least, that first 11 is pretty bloody good.