I've given up on football

[Dicks and chicks]

its stupid, it just doesn't make sense. You can't win in it unless you have petro millions, you either go one way of spending more than your club earns to achieve short term success or you spend little like us and accumulate profit but then the fans are angry because money isn't being invested in the club? Its all stupid anyway, all that kicking of a ball for a few trophies. Football clubs just don't make sense as a business they don't perform how a business does. The alex song and van persie transfers were the final straw for me.

[Marc Overmars]

Sure you can win in it, you just need the bloke you paid 13m to score rather than miss from 6 yards.

[Özim]

Preferred the Olympics to be honest!

[Dicks and chicks]

Sure you can win in it, you just need the bloke you paid 13m to score rather than blaze the ball over from 6 yards.

we have 2 chamaks rather than one now

[Özim]

Sure you can win in it, you just need the bloke you paid 13m to score rather than blaze the ball over from 6 yards.
Harsh be fair he lacked a little bit of sharpness.

Realistically though, he's unproven he played 2 seasons in the French top league and that's it, he may turn out to be very good, equally this level may prove too much for him.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yeh, tbf wenger fucked up by taking off Poldi and leaving gervinho on.

Then he took off walcott.

Same old Wumger.

[Dicks and chicks]

Yeh, tbf wenger fucked up by taking off Poldi and leaving gervinho on.

Then he took off walcott.

Same old Wumger.
same shit different toilet TBH

[GP]

its stupid, it just doesn't make sense. You can't win in it unless you have petro millions, you either go one way of spending more than your club earns to achieve short term success or you spend little like us and accumulate profit but then the fans are angry because money isn't being invested in the club? Its all stupid anyway, all that kicking of a ball for a few trophies. Football clubs just don't make sense as a business they don't perform how a business does. The alex song and van persie transfers were the final straw for me.

Bye then.

[Syn]

its stupid, it just doesn't make sense. You can't win in it unless you have petro millions, you either go one way of spending more than your club earns to achieve short term success or you spend little like us and accumulate profit but then the fans are angry because money isn't being invested in the club? Its all stupid anyway, all that kicking of a ball for a few trophies. Football clubs just don't make sense as a business they don't perform how a business does. The alex song and van persie transfers were the final straw for me.

I envy you. I waste far too much time following football instead of doing something useful.

Other sports are better for a drink and a laugh but I guess you can't just end an emotional attachment that, for most people, runs through families.

[gooners]

its stupid, it just doesn't make sense. You can't win in it unless you have petro millions, you either go one way of spending more than your club earns to achieve short term success or you spend little like us and accumulate profit but then the fans are angry because money isn't being invested in the club? Its all stupid anyway, all that kicking of a ball for a few trophies. Football clubs just don't make sense as a business they don't perform how a business does. The alex song and van persie transfers were the final straw for me.

no you don't need petro millions.

But the fact is a club like united are prepared to pay rooney 200,000 per week to keep him. We on the other hand are prepared to pay the likes of denilson 50k and flog those that reach the ceiling of our arbitrary wage structure.

[tpyo]

I wouldn't worry about it OP. Things change, no decade is just like the last. End of the 90's were Man U / Arsenal getting the big bucks of the newly formed EPL, mid-to-end of 00's introduction of the big spenders. The end of the 10's is going to be just as different IMO. Just look at the legacies of history. It was very rare for any great ruler to last more than a few decades, in the same way it will be rare for these sheikhs and oligarch's to sustain the clubs they've bought for the same amount of time.

... and remember being a fan isn't just about the good times. We rarely pay out much of a dividend so the vast majority of this money is remaining with the club which bodes well if any adjustment happens to the football market. Sure we've written off a few seasons and I expect a few more will be written off in terms of trophies but we're always in with a shout and that's something we have over most of the fans in the EPL.

[gooners]

I wouldn't worry about it OP. Things change, no decade is just like the last. End of the 90's were Man U / Arsenal getting the big bucks of the newly formed EPL, mid-to-end of 00's introduction of the big spenders. The end of the 10's is going to be just as different IMO. Just look at the legacies of history. It was very rare for any great ruler to last more than a few decades, in the same way it will be rare for these sheikhs and oligarch's to sustain the clubs they've bought for the same amount of time.

... and remember being a fan isn't just about the good times. We rarely pay out much of a dividend so the vast majority of this money is remaining with the club which bodes well if any adjustment happens to the football market. Sure we've written off a few seasons and I expect a few more will be written off in terms of trophies but we're always in with a shout and that's something we have over most of the fans in the EPL.

and when kroenke too decides to sell up and fuck off?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Bye then.


I wouldn't worry about it OP. Things change, no decade is just like the last. End of the 90's were Man U / Arsenal getting the big bucks of the newly formed EPL, mid-to-end of 00's introduction of the big spenders. The end of the 10's is going to be just as different IMO. Just look at the legacies of history. It was very rare for any great ruler to last more than a few decades, in the same way it will be rare for these sheikhs and oligarch's to sustain the clubs they've bought for the same amount of time.

... and remember being a fan isn't just about the good times. We rarely pay out much of a dividend so the vast majority of this money is remaining with the club which bodes well if any adjustment happens to the football market. Sure we've written off a few seasons and I expect a few more will be written off in terms of trophies but we're always in with a shout and that's something we have over most of the fans in the EPL.

Spot on Being a fan is about following the team though good and tha bad not just being a glory hunter. Real fans love the club no matter what.

If your done be done.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

and when kroenke too decides to sell up and fuck off?

Depends who he sells too ?

[gooners]

same for city,chelsea,united etc, then.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

same for city,chelsea,united etc, then.

wtf have those teams got to do with anything.

[tpyo]

and when kroenke too decides to sell up and fuck off?


No reason to. It's not like he's losing money by owning the club unlike all the other owners who are twitchy about their debts (Man U's recent flotation) or keep having to pour more money in (Chelski, Citeh, Pool).
Even if he did as long as he does decent diligence with the next owner who comes in (please NOT Usamov) then the club will remain safe.

[LDG]

maybe you should get of yor high horse and go fuck yourself?

Leave charlie alone tbf.

[LDG]

maybe you should get of yor high horse and go fuck yourself?

Leave charlie alone tbf.

[gooners]

Why the need to be rude, i was never rude to you or insulted you but you have to me for no reason, no way i will debate with someone like you again.

of course you weren't. To you those sly digs at others' expense is fun banter.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Why the need to be rude, i was never rude to you or insulted you but you have to me for no reason, no way i will debate with someone like you again.

Don't waste your breath Charlie.

The guys a troll plain and simple.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Don't waste your breath Charlie.

The guys a troll plain and simple.

Its cool he/she is on ignore now.

[gooners]

No reason to. It's not like he's losing money by owning the club unlike all the other owners who are twitchy about their debts (Man U's recent flotation) or keep having to pour more money in (Chelski, Citeh, Pool).
Even if he did as long as he does decent diligence with the next owner who comes in (please NOT Usamov) then the club will remain safe.

What i mean though is that Abramovich and Co. could also do the same. Abramovich has already made his money --- if he decides to flog chelsea an attach all the money he has pumped into it as debt no one in their right mind would buy it. I am sure he knows that.

Kroenke on the other hand could be said to be ensuring that his share value never diminishes. Who is the moneygrabber here?

[GP]

Don't waste your breath Charlie.

The guys a troll plain and simple.

:gp:

Always was.

[notwist]

I think if you accept that we're a feeder club and fourth place is really first for us, then half the frustration goes out the window. The other half (that we're the 4th richest club in the world) grates a bit but if you also accept that the club is run on very pragmatic lines and won't go bust, then that bit goes too.

Simples.

[Niall_Quinn]

Spot on Being a fan is about following the team though good and tha bad not just being a glory hunter. Real fans love the club no matter what.

If your done be done.

That would be true at any period in the past, but it's not necessarily true now. Depends if such a thing as Arsenal Football Club exists in reality any more. Yeah sure, the bricks and mortar are there, there are players as such, staff or sorts, owners (provided you can afford long distance calls), fans. But the love of what we grew up with, is that still there? Maybe it is for the diehards, although surely it has waned? There were diehards in the trenches of WWI too - fighting for king and country, something worth dying for. Right? And then there was the truth and a pile of bodies and wasted lives. Loyalty, honour, duty, through thick and thin - always thin for us but stiff upper lip.

There's no way I feel as much excitement about the game as I did in years (decades to be honest) past. There's nothing to believe in in this game any more, no heroes, no character villains (just the real ones like the racists and thugs), no fairy tales (the FA cup is one giant bag of shit), no Roy of the Rovers, no When Saturday Comes. It's just one huge commercialised stream of vomit with everyone drenched from head to foot and hyping the noxious fumes while holding their noses and averting their eyes. From crime ridden governing bodies down through the clubs who fly in the face of the modern struggle against economic depression, the miserable, soulless money automatons that have replaced the players, the revolving door managers - when does loyalty run out? Is loyalty an absolute regardless of the abuse? Loyal like a beaten dog? Where did this flawless adherence originate? From a hangover gained while drinking with the #9 from your boyhood team in the local boozer - him telling you how footie was great because he had a few quid more than you for doing what he loved doing? From the memoires of your father?

I remember sticking with the club through thick and thin. Remember it well. But I look now and I don't see a club any more. And I wonder, should I just be loyal out of habit? Loyal when there's nothing to pin that loyalty too? The red and white shirt - oh and now the blue bits too. Fuck that for another game of soldiers and fuck all the ****s who stole something good and turned it rancid. Scum that know the price of everything and delight in destroying as much value as they can. The fucking devil's spawn. Is it the trait of a glory hunter to point a finger at a fat, thieving fuck and demand it give back what has been stolen and debased? Maybe. In which case, after all these years, I'll take the tag of "Glory Hunter" and wear it without a blush. If that's a glory hunter then we need more of them - in sport, politics, economics, education. Enough is enough isn't is?

[Cripps_orig]

its stupid, it just doesn't make sense. You can't win in it unless you have petro millions, you either go one way of spending more than your club earns to achieve short term success or you spend little like us and accumulate profit but then the fans are angry because money isn't being invested in the club? Its all stupid anyway, all that kicking of a ball for a few trophies. Football clubs just don't make sense as a business they don't perform how a business does. The alex song and van persie transfers were the final straw for me.I see what you mean. Well i havent actually read your post but im replying to the thread title.

I dont really care about players coming or going, that will always happen. What i do care about is players giving a fuck and today to go with last season and the season before, its clear they dont.

The players dont give a fuck about the fans and we feel no connection to them.

Football is at its lowest ebb it has ever been on in my 70 years of watching this sport. Oh for the days of Chapman and Mee

[KSE Comedy Club]

I see what you mean. Well i havent actually read your post but im replying to the thread title.

I dont really care about players coming or going, that will always happen. What i do care about is players giving a fuck and today to go with last season and the season before, its clear they dont.

The players dont give a fuck about the fans and we feel no connection to them.

Football is at its lowest ebb it has ever been on in my 70 years of watching this sport. Oh for the days of Chapman and Mee
70 years :blink:

[Niall_Quinn]

What i do care about is players giving a fuck and today to go with last season and the season before, its clear they dont.

The players dont give a fuck about the fans and we feel no connection to them.

That's about it. Nothing new, been going on for years. But it can't go on forever without consequences.

[Cripps_orig]

70 years :blink:

Did i spell 70 wrong?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That would be true at any period in the past, but it's not necessarily true now. Depends if such a thing as Arsenal Football Club exists in reality any more. Yeah sure, the bricks and mortar are there, there are players as such, staff or sorts, owners (provided you can afford long distance calls), fans. But the love of what we grew up with, is that still there? Maybe it is for the diehards, although surely it has waned? There were diehards in the trenches of WWI too - fighting for king and country, something worth dying for. Right? And then there was the truth and a pile of bodies and wasted lives. Loyalty, honour, duty, through thick and thin - always thin for us but stiff upper lip.

There's no way I feel as much excitement about the game as I did in years (decades to be honest) past. There's nothing to believe in in this game any more, no heroes, no character villains (just the real ones like the racists and thugs), no fairy tales (the FA cup is one giant bag of shit), no Roy of the Rovers, no When Saturday Comes. It's just one huge commercialised stream of vomit with everyone drenched from head to foot and hyping the noxious fumes while holding their noses and averting their eyes. From crime ridden governing bodies down through the clubs who fly in the face of the modern struggle against economic depression, the miserable, soulless money automatons that have replaced the players, the revolving door managers - when does loyalty run out? Is loyalty an absolute regardless of the abuse? Loyal like a beaten dog? Where did this flawless adherence originate? From a hangover gained while drinking with the #9 from your boyhood team in the local boozer - him telling you how footie was great because he had a few quid more than you for doing what he loved doing? From the memoires of your father?

I remember sticking with the club through thick and thin. Remember it well. But I look now and I don't see a club any more. And I wonder, should I just be loyal out of habit? Loyal when there's nothing to pin that loyalty too? The red and white shirt - oh and now the blue bits too. Fuck that for another game of soldiers and fuck all the ****s who stole something good and turned it rancid. Scum that know the price of everything and delight in destroying as much value as they can. The fucking devil's spawn. Is it the trait of a glory hunter to point a finger at a fat, thieving fuck and demand it give back what has been stolen and debased? Maybe. In which case, after all these years, I'll take the tag of "Glory Hunter" and wear it without a blush. If that's a glory hunter then we need more of them - in sport, politics, economics, education. Enough is enough isn't is?

Do you feel this way about Arsenal for footit in General have you lost the love of the game or just the club.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why is cunt still censored? How can you talk about footballers when the most relevant words are removed from the language?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

What i do care about is players giving a fuck and today to go with last season and the season before, its clear they dont.

The players dont give a fuck about the fans and we feel no connection to them.

Well

Football is at its lowest ebb it has ever been on in my 70 years of watching this sport. Oh for the days of Chapman and Mee
Of course players don't care about the fans they have not for at least 10 years tbh. And since money came in it has ended that connection.

Footballers and managers only care about themselves not the fans even though they say they do. The game has changed and its for the worse and i hate it now.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

70 years :blink:

Oldest poster on GW who knew.

[Niall_Quinn]

Do you feel this way about Arsenal for footit in General have you lost the love of the game or just the club.

Football in general, but in terms of Arsenal I just don't recognise the club any more. Mercenary owners, mercenary brats wearing the shirt - not that the shirt was ever a mystical artefact handed down by Jesus Christ, but the people who used to wear it (for all their faults) were still on the same planet as the people who cheered them on. Today it's like cheering for an alien entity I understand nothing about and have nothing in common with. It;s been like that for ages but history and habit is a great fuel for delusion.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Did i spell 70 wrong?

No, I just didn't know you were so fucking old. :lol:

:hug:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Pretty much my thoughts when asked by my seven year old why Van Persie was playing for Manchester United now. He'll never know the game I knew.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Football in general, but in terms of Arsenal I just don't recognise the club any more. Mercenary owners, mercenary brats wearing the shirt - not that the shirt was ever a mystical artefact handed down by Jesus Christ, but the people who used to wear it (for all their faults) were still on the same planet as the people who cheered them on. Today it's like cheering for an alien entity I understand nothing about and have nothing in common with. It;s been like that for ages but history and habit is a great fuel for delusion.

Agree football is getting is not the game i used to love and it don't help Arsenal are making it a bore too. The older i get the less i care about it rather watch the tennis tbh.

[tpyo]

...

I totally get what you're saying and I think its the slow and steady divergence of supporters and followers. Where a supporter is more emotionally and financially attached to the club than a follower who adopts a more passive interest. My grandad was a supporter of Arsenal FC, my dad a follower and then myself a follower. Sure I attend games when the rare opportunity arises but I'm not thick and thin. I follow with a keen interest and keep tabs on every match, I also watch some games on telly.
Football used to be exclusively support based but as soon as we formed the leagues this started to change and will forever continue to change. It was about the time that followers started to outnumber supporters that I think the clubs realised they could hike ticket prices without ill effect. Who knows what will happens once they push all the supporters out.... can they get by on just the follower money? As long as the EPL is one of the #1 brands in football I think they probably can.

But it might also be a case of perspective. You've been a fan for ages and can compare the past to the present that gives you this perspective. When you were a kid did you ever hear the same sort of rant yourself from teh oldies? Did they have a similar perspective too? It's also worth bearing in mind that there will be a slew of new Arsenal fans in present and future that will accept this (overpriced, spoilt players) as the norm and find something different to complain about in the future. I'm not sure what my point is though..... did I have one?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I totally get what you're saying and I think its the slow and steady divergence of supporters and followers. Where a supporter is more emotionally and financially attached to the club than a follower who adopts a more passive interest. My grandad was a supporter of Arsenal FC, my dad a follower and then myself a follower. Sure I attend games when the rare opportunity arises but I'm not thick and thin. I follow with a keen interest and keep tabs on every match, I also watch some games on telly.
Football used to be exclusively support based but as soon as we formed the leagues this started to change and will forever continue to change. It was about the time that followers started to outnumber supporters that I think the clubs realised they could hike ticket prices without ill effect. Who knows what will happens once they push all the supporters out.... can they get by on just the follower money? As long as the EPL is one of the #1 brands in football I think they probably can.

But it might also be a case of perspective. You've been a fan for ages and can compare the past to the present that gives you this perspective. When you were a kid did you ever hear the same sort of rant yourself from teh oldies? Did they have a similar perspective too? It's also worth bearing in mind that there will be a slew of new Arsenal fans in present and future that will accept this (overpriced, spoilt players) as the norm and find something different to complain about in the future. I'm not sure what my point is though..... did I have one?

Times are changing fans want to win things players want to win things that ill play for the fans and be special to them connection is gone now its all about getting good wages or winning things.

Sad really the game i onced love is gone.

[tpyo]

Times are changing fans want to win things players want to win things that ill play for the fans and be special to them connection is gone now its all about getting good wages or winning things.

Sad really the game i onced love is gone.

It still exists though.... just not at the highest level. Where the club was once the property of the committed 30,000 there are now millions of fans across the globe that support it "sufficiently".
I'm sure if we all picked up a Blue Square South club we'd get to experience that connection again. Footy'd be shite though.

I do wish the players would stick a bit more but maybe that's part of the problem with picking up talent from across the globe as opposed to home growing local youngsters. I guess the real test will be how long Wilshere remains here.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It still exists though.... just not at the highest level. Where the club was once the property of the committed 30,000 there are now millions of fans across the globe that support it "sufficiently".
I'm sure if we all picked up a Blue Square South club we'd get to experience that connection again. Footy'd be shite though.

I do wish the players would stick a bit more but maybe that's part of the problem with picking up talent from across the globe as opposed to home growing local youngsters. I guess the real test will be how long Wilshere remains here.

Yeah your right down in the lower leagues the passion is there i agree.

[notwist]

Players come and go. That's normal. So do owners. The only people really loyal are the fans. Sometimes you feel with the ticket prices, and the salaries, and being the 4th richest club in the world, this refusal to compete at the highest level is short-changing us a bit. Or perhaps we were just spoilt between 98 & 05?

[tpyo]

I don't think its a case of spoilt because as you say we're loyal to our teams. Its more a case of luck. A Liverpool supporter starting now is unlucky compared to the Liverpool fan of the 70's/80's opposite goes for a Chelsea or Man City fan that died before the money turned up.

That's why all I ask for is a reasonable hope that we'll win that makes me content but I appreciate that I'm just a follower that just peeks in all the time to see how we're doing.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I totally get what you're saying and I think its the slow and steady divergence of supporters and followers. Where a supporter is more emotionally and financially attached to the club than a follower who adopts a more passive interest. My grandad was a supporter of Arsenal FC, my dad a follower and then myself a follower. Sure I attend games when the rare opportunity arises but I'm not thick and thin. I follow with a keen interest and keep tabs on every match, I also watch some games on telly.
Football used to be exclusively support based but as soon as we formed the leagues this started to change and will forever continue to change. It was about the time that followers started to outnumber supporters that I think the clubs realised they could hike ticket prices without ill effect. Who knows what will happens once they push all the supporters out.... can they get by on just the follower money? As long as the EPL is one of the #1 brands in football I think they probably can.

But it might also be a case of perspective. You've been a fan for ages and can compare the past to the present that gives you this perspective. When you were a kid did you ever hear the same sort of rant yourself from teh oldies? Did they have a similar perspective too? It's also worth bearing in mind that there will be a slew of new Arsenal fans in present and future that will accept this (overpriced, spoilt players) as the norm and find something different to complain about in the future. I'm not sure what my point is though..... did I have one?

I think you made a very good point.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Its cool he/she is on ignore now.

Glad to hear it.

If you go, you'll be missed, if he goes, it will improve the Board.

Welcome back buddy.

[Xhaka Can’t]

70 years :blink:

Dog years. :good:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Why is cunt still censored? How can you talk about footballers when the most relevant words are removed from the language?

That was my fault.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Glad to hear it.

If you go, you'll be missed, if he goes, it will improve the Board.

Welcome back buddy.

Cheers GB

[Niall_Quinn]

I totally get what you're saying and I think its the slow and steady divergence of supporters and followers. Where a supporter is more emotionally and financially attached to the club than a follower who adopts a more passive interest. My grandad was a supporter of Arsenal FC, my dad a follower and then myself a follower. Sure I attend games when the rare opportunity arises but I'm not thick and thin. I follow with a keen interest and keep tabs on every match, I also watch some games on telly.
Football used to be exclusively support based but as soon as we formed the leagues this started to change and will forever continue to change. It was about the time that followers started to outnumber supporters that I think the clubs realised they could hike ticket prices without ill effect. Who knows what will happens once they push all the supporters out.... can they get by on just the follower money? As long as the EPL is one of the #1 brands in football I think they probably can.

But it might also be a case of perspective. You've been a fan for ages and can compare the past to the present that gives you this perspective. When you were a kid did you ever hear the same sort of rant yourself from teh oldies? Did they have a similar perspective too? It's also worth bearing in mind that there will be a slew of new Arsenal fans in present and future that will accept this (overpriced, spoilt players) as the norm and find something different to complain about in the future. I'm not sure what my point is though..... did I have one?

Shifting priorities in life will have something to do with the view I have of football, of course. When you're a kid with no responsibilities and then a young adult who thinks there's plenty of time later to do something useful, it's easy to inflate the importance of something like football. You're right, later in life things are taken in a different perspective. But it's not the game itself as such, that still involves the tribal pursuit on 11 guys chasing a ball with a 30,000 screaming crowd urging them to kick the thing in a net. That's the passion side of it and who knows for sure why it was so fervent in the past compared to today? Tougher times, more aggression and energy to dispense with come Saturday. The feeling of hope that if the kid from down the road could make good then life wasn't pre-ordained. You were part of it even though your role was tiny - but it still counted. Now it's like having your nose pressed to the glass looking in.

I saw Ian Wright talking shit in the newspapers again. Football's like that he said, the players aren't loyal and the fans "must accept this". MUST accept this? Translated he's telling us we are mugs and that's okay. Screw you Ian, be that way if you want to but don't tell us we MUST be like that too. Who were you lifting that shirt to when you broke the scoring record? Where was the adulation coming from? Your sponsor? Sky TV? You think those moments can be bought and arranged and still mean something, you think you can hop from club to club and still break that record? You think you can build history, tradition and great memories in the minds of thousands by passing through and passing on? Wright had his moment of glory and he had to be there for how ever many hundred matches it was to claim that prize. The fans were with him. Why does he forget all this now and just accept the game must be shit because there is no other alternative?

Henry went on to break that record and that was one of the few "Olympic" moments you get in football. The endless work beforehand, the bonds that grow, the constant application and then the breakthrough - the gold medal. That's what's going to be lost and is being lost from the game and the media, the clubs, the players and the fans all seem to be sleepwalking into it as if it is all normal. This is why we don't appreciate the achievements of Chelsea and City. They didn't invest those endless hours building towards the prize. What they did was pay to take out the competition so they were the only athlete left in the race. Then they strode to the gold medal, the only runner, first place guaranteed - and inside the little fantasy world they created with a chequebook the fans cheered and deluded themselves that gain minus the pain was as fulfilling as the real thing. Maybe for the younger followers (as you correctly put it) this barren version of success is just as sweet because they have absolutely nothing to compare it to. So maybe artificial triumph becomes valid if you can eradicate the memory of genuine achievements now long gone. But for those that remember, they probably just smile and say, "Whatever" - I know I do. Let them have their fun but please tell me we'll go back to doing it properly at some point in the future, because if this is all we have now, if this is how it's going to be without respite then I want no part of that.

Did the fans have similar rants in the past? I think we were too busy wondering if Maggie was going to come in person and shut our job down, or Tebbitt deliver a bike to the factory gates. Harder times, football was used for a different purpose I think. There was the rigged game outside where you could never really get ahead, but inside the stadium there was a game going on where you always had a chance even if was slim. And it was played on your terms. The "good old days" weren't idyllic by any means, they were hard and a little grey. And there were still examples of great dishonour, I remember Frank Stapleton - I still remember that and wonder how the hell he could have done what he did. From hero to absolute zero. Maybe people thought the same about Jennings before that, but Pat was such an incredible guy it would be hard to hold any grudge for too long. Not like Sol Campbell, a mercenary I never accepted as being one of ours. That was the only time I have ever sympathised with the fans at that little club down the road, I forget their name.

Is that it then? My main objection with football. Is it because it's manufactured, stage managed, the emotions are carefully planned on marketing charts, the highs, lows, scandals all booked in advance? The object of the game, ratings and pay days first and for the few and yet the assumption the same little guy will pick up the tab - it's odd how some traditions are happily retained when they work in favour of the guy with the Roller. I never liked WWE or that old style of pantomime wrestling we had on TV. Maybe that's why I don't like football now, because it reminds me too much of that. I thought those fat guys in underpants were ridiculous back then, now the girly little sods crying on the pitch are too reminiscent for comfort. It's embarrassing to watch them, I'm embarrassed for them. I wouldn't pay to go to an art exhibition of fakes, wouldn't go to see a movie where the stars had been replaced by C-listers, wouldn't buy a fake first edition and I'd laugh if the price for these inferior goods was 10 times higher.

I think you are right. Football is now just another mass produced consumer product. I'm trying to get away from all that because I finally realise how futile, unfulfilling and self defeating the end result is. Football now fits neatly into that realm so I guess I have a natural tendency to shun it. Offset by the great emotion and desire I had for it in the past. You know it's horrible and no good but you have to look. That's what modern football is, a road crash with people slowing down to stare. And spotting Nasri and Cole and van Purse by the corpse, sucking the blood from the victim - with a queue of "heroes" behind waiting for their turn, kissing their badge when they see you looking through the glass.

[Boss]

These kinds of threads pop up once every couple weeks, usually after we drop points. If people were honest about losing their interest in football clubs' TV revenue wouldn't continue to rise and nor would clubs' fan bases. The drama in football is unparalleled by any other sport, as we saw in last year's title race and even CL tourney.

It is possible to win without spending a fuckload of money, as we saw with Dortmund and Montpellier last year. Can't help but think there wouldn't be these sorts of threads if we were still winning stuff.

[Niall_Quinn]

These kinds of threads pop up once every couple weeks, usually after we drop points. If people were honest about losing their interest in football clubs' TV revenue wouldn't continue to rise and nor would clubs' fan bases. The drama in football is unparalleled by any other sport, as we saw in last year's title race and even CL tourney.

It is possible to win without spending a fuckload of money, as we saw with Dortmund and Montpellier last year. Can't help but think there wouldn't be these sorts of threads if we were still winning stuff.

Are you really so superficial to believe people who are becoming disenchanted with football (or have already left the game) are primarily concerned about dropped points? Is it beyond all reason there could be more to it than that? Or that upward trends in commercialism may not automatically suggest contentment among the masses? The drama you speak of is in reality a slight variance in what otherwise is utterly predictable. Who "dramatically" snatched the title last season? Which of the billionaire clubs who simply spent until they got what they wanted? The sheer drama. Dortmund and Montpellier don't play in the Premier League. But you could have a point, maybe there is more integrity in the foreign leagues and they are worth a watch this season - excluding the comedy in Spain of course.

[Boss]

Are you really so superficial to believe people who are becoming disenchanted with football (or have already left the game) are primarily concerned about dropped points? Is it beyond all reason there could be more to it than that? Or that upward trends in commercialism may not automatically suggest contentment among the masses? The drama you speak of is in reality a slight variance in what otherwise is utterly predictable. Who "dramatically" snatched the title last season? Which of the billionaire clubs who simply spent until they got what they wanted? The sheer drama. Dortmund and Montpellier don't play in the Premier League. But you could have a point, maybe there is more integrity in the foreign leagues and they are worth a watch this season - excluding the comedy in Spain of course.

Football 'died' at the start of the Premier League, and more importantly the start of the Champions League, in 1992 when the gap between the top clubs and the poor clubs became too big to surmount and increased exponentially (CL money enabling clubs to buy new players to qualify for the CL again and again). I didn't hear any complaining from Arsenal fans because we were one of the lucky clubs to benefit from this, along with the brilliance of one Arsene Wenger. Footballers have always been mercenary ****s... I'm sure you remember Anelka way back in 1999, Figo in 2000, Campbell in 2001 and so on. Footballers are less likely to leave a winning club though, so we didn't experience as much of that back then as we do now, which is fair enough given no trophies in seven years.

All that has happened with the introduction of the sugar daddy is more rich clubs, and thus more people to potentially poach from us when in the past only Real/Barca could do so. These sugar daddies have also seen an increase in the amount of competition, with 4 winners in the second half of the PL compared to 3 in the first half. Despite this increase of rich clubs, it follows my argument that players are unlikely to leave clubs pushing for trophies - how many players have left the likes of Man U, Chelsea, Juventus, Inter Milan, Real, Barca, Bayern without the clubs themselves actually wanting them to leave? Even with Ibrahimovic and Silva leaving Milan, that makes two in around ten years. Even Liverpool have managed to keep most of their players, although this may be due to most of them being shite.

If football is truly so much different from the 'good old days' (which I doubt, today sees far more overall quality spread across the league), then stop watching it. I doubt anyone that posted in this thread will though, because it is still a reasonable amount of entertainment and despite us not winning anything I enjoy most of our games.

[Niall_Quinn]

Football 'died' at the start of the Premier League...
...If football is truly so much different from the 'good old days' (which I doubt, today sees far more overall quality spread across the league), then stop watching it. I doubt anyone that posted in this thread will though, because it is still a reasonable amount of entertainment and despite us not winning anything I enjoy most of our games.

Haven't seen a game since the Euros, which was a dreadful tournament and a classic example of how hyped football really is. I'm not interested in the football on the pitch any more because it is entirely one dimensional and predictable. One too many seasons watching the same old shit, not just from Arsenal but from all of them. The odd game from Barcelona broke the monotony I suppose. When Arsenal was winning all those trophies, it was never about the baubles - it was about the quality of the football. It was something worth watching, a sight to see. If any team can offer that again, I'll pay to see it.

[gooners]

Football 'died' at the start of the Premier League, and more importantly the start of the Champions League, in 1992 when the gap between the top clubs and the poor clubs became too big to surmount and increased exponentially (CL money enabling clubs to buy new players to qualify for the CL again and again). I didn't hear any complaining from Arsenal fans because we were one of the lucky clubs to benefit from this, along with the brilliance of one Arsene Wenger. Footballers have always been mercenary ****s... I'm sure you remember Anelka way back in 1999, Figo in 2000, Campbell in 2001 and so on. Footballers are less likely to leave a winning club though, so we didn't experience as much of that back then as we do now, which is fair enough given no trophies in seven years.

All that has happened with the introduction of the sugar daddy is more rich clubs, and thus more people to potentially poach from us when in the past only Real/Barca could do so. These sugar daddies have also seen an increase in the amount of competition, with 4 winners in the second half of the PL compared to 3 in the first half. Despite this increase of rich clubs, it follows my argument that players are unlikely to leave clubs pushing for trophies - how many players have left the likes of Man U, Chelsea, Juventus, Inter Milan, Real, Barca, Bayern without the clubs themselves actually wanting them to leave? Even with Ibrahimovic and Silva leaving Milan, that makes two in around ten years. Even Liverpool have managed to keep most of their players, although this may be due to most of them being shite.

spot! ... on!

:gp:

[tpyo]

Thanks for the long reply NQ. Ahhh memories of the 80's, just a bit before my time of proper consciousness (child of '81) but nice to remember.

I think Boss nails it (in at least the perspective I'm aware of) that the EPL was one of the changing factors leading us to this present scenario. I remember the time in the early/mid 90's when Alan Shearer went to Blackburn for a record breaking and then "staggering" sum of £3.3 million. The formation of the EPL was the turning point then leading us now to (two decades on) players like Nasri and RVP going for £25 million with only ONE YEAR left on their contract plus an insane weekly wage. It defies 90's logic. It defies any logic tbh. If I were to predict a bubble I'd be pointing at footy but given my research on my article "predicting the next few decades" I'm hard pressed to find a point where things will go back to how they were. The only possible scenario is an utter collapse of the football market (which kills of the yanks) along with a world-wide decline in oil prices or consumption of oil (which kills off the sheikhs and oligarchs).

If we recall correctly our misfortune was a result of the insanity of "British talent" fetching absurd sums. This led Wenger to plucking talent from afar and bringing some of the worlds brightest and youngest to Arsenal who unfortunately never felt the loyalty of wanting to play for the club. Perhaps its the introduction of player agents, perhaps the fact they're not local boys, perhaps its just anyone born of this generation. As I've said before the litmus test of "local boys" is probably Jack Wilshere. He's been with Arsenal since the age of 9 and lives and grew up in Hitchen in the nearby county of Hertfordshire so it will be interesting to see how long he hangs around for.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I think this thread should be in other football chat.

It's not really anything to do with arsenal per se.

[tpyo]

To make even less about football, consider this as a final nail in the coffin for supporters vs followers:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/american-football/19338119

once one sport is doing it, it's likely others will follow. I think its perfectly viable that in the future matches of the EPL will be played in other countries (as they already tried to do once).

[KSE Comedy Club]

To make even less about football, consider this as a final nail in the coffin for supporters vs followers:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/american-football/19338119

once one sport is doing it, it's likely others will follow. I think its perfectly viable that in the future matches of the EPL will be played in other countries (as they already tried to do once).
The only good thing about the outco e last time was that they didn't have the backing and support of all the pl clubs.
Which I think will always remain the case.

[tpyo]

I doubt that. Glazer, Henry, Kroenke, Mansour and Ambramovich all have good reasons to export their brand further. Any negative votes to such proposals they make at present are purely because they don't want to antagonise fans IMO.
I think we'd see a change in voting if they felt they could get away with it.

[Xhaka Can’t]

What are you guys talking about?

Surrey FC already play all their home games at Old Trafford.

[Kano]

Haven't seen a game since the Euros, which was a dreadful tournament and a classic example of how hyped football really is. I'm not interested in the football on the pitch any more because it is entirely one dimensional and predictable. One too many seasons watching the same old shit, not just from Arsenal but from all of them. The odd game from Barcelona broke the monotony I suppose. When Arsenal was winning all those trophies, it was never about the baubles - it was about the quality of the football. It was something worth watching, a sight to see. If any team can offer that again, I'll pay to see it.
the game is still there to be enjoyed in a 'one off' basis, where you can watch the game without too much personal investment. that is the place i find myself in now. tired of the predictability of it all, drained by the incessant media coverage from 'experts' and pundits over analysing the game without any sort of insight and woken up to the fact that the game is nowhere is as important is it likes to believe. yet it is so easy to fall back into the same dull routine of reading shit on the net, listening to those ****s at half time and caught up in the same twitter bullshit. i think a lot of fans allow themselves to be trapped on that treadmill eventually just locked in by Sky and co.

this is a season off at least for me, where i will watch games but quite dispassionately and try to invest my time and energy into other sports where i feel more closely associated to the personalities taking part. i am also going to check out lower league football for the first time, to see if that brings any life back to my passion for football.

[Cripps_orig]

Euros a dreadful tournament?

NQ :haha:

[Boss]

To make even less about football, consider this as a final nail in the coffin for supporters vs followers:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/american-football/19338119

once one sport is doing it, it's likely others will follow. I think its perfectly viable that in the future matches of the EPL will be played in other countries (as they already tried to do once).

Not sure why this is a bad thing. It would disrupt the league, given that home / away wouldn't really count anymore but I don't see why 'supporters' can only come from close to the club's actual stadium.

You do realise that number wise, there are far more passionate Arsenal fans in Asia than there are in the UK, yes?

[LDG]

You do realise that number wise, there are far more passionate Arsenal fans in Asia than there are in the UK, yes?

VE VIL VIN BPL!! :bow:

[Cripps_orig]

Not sure why this is a bad thing. It would disrupt the league, given that home / away wouldn't really count anymore but I don't see why 'supporters' can only come from close to the club's actual stadium.

You do realise that number wise, there are far more passionate Arsenal fans in Asia than there are in the UK, yes?Probably cos it would disrupt the league

[Xhaka Can’t]

the game is still there to be enjoyed in a 'one off' basis, where you can watch the game without too much personal investment. that is the place i find myself in now. tired of the predictability of it all, drained by the incessant media coverage from 'experts' and pundits over analysing the game without any sort of insight and woken up to the fact that the game is nowhere is as important is it likes to believe. yet it is so easy to fall back into the same dull routine of reading shit on the net, listening to those ****s at half time and caught up in the same twitter bullshit. i think a lot of fans allow themselves to be trapped on that treadmill eventually just locked in by Sky and co.

this is a season off at least for me, where i will watch games but quite dispassionately and try to invest my time and energy into other sports where i feel more closely associated to the personalities taking part. i am also going to check out lower league football for the first time, to see if that brings any life back to my passion for football.

What lower league team if any do you follow?

They'll never beat the mighty Barnet unless they play them.

[Kano]

AFC Wimbledon will be my next port of call.

quite an impressive result last night too.

[tpyo]

Not sure why this is a bad thing. It would disrupt the league, given that home / away wouldn't really count anymore but I don't see why 'supporters' can only come from close to the club's actual stadium.

You do realise that number wise, there are far more passionate Arsenal fans in Asia than there are in the UK, yes?

I don't think its a bad thing. I agree, lots of fans elsewhere, be nice for them to get a look in. But from the perspective of a season ticket holder for life it probably sucks.

[Young Guns 11]

No-one simply walks away from football and the club you love.

Unless you're a penis, that is.

[Kano]

or if you are old enough to take a bigger view of life.

you decide.

[Dicks and chicks]

I see what you mean. Well i havent actually read your post but im replying to the thread title.

I dont really care about players coming or going, that will always happen. What i do care about is players giving a fuck and today to go with last season and the season before, its clear they dont.

The players dont give a fuck about the fans and we feel no connection to them.

Football is at its lowest ebb it has ever been on in my 70 years of watching this sport. Oh for the days of Chapman and Mee

agree with you 300 percent

[GP]

Thought you'd given up?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Thought you'd given up?

:lol: