How do we get rid of Stan Kroeke and Ivan Gazidis?

[Dicks and chicks]

Scarves could work, but seriously a number of people on this site have been complaining about them without offering any solutions as to how to get rid of them.

[Niall_Quinn]

Better question would be, how do you stop a vampire sucking blood? You can't, they have to suck blood to survive. That's just the kind of creature they are, it's in their nature. They aren't going anywhere until they get what they came for, which is a ~£200mill return on investment, which is very achievable within the next 5 years.

[Dicks and chicks]

Better question would be, how do you stop a vampire sucking blood? You can't, they have to suck blood to survive. That's just the kind of creature they are, it's in their nature. They aren't going anywhere until they get what they came for, which is a ~£200mill return on investment, which is very achievable within the next 5 years.

if you get rid of the vampire the vampire stops sucking blood.

[Niall_Quinn]

if you get rid of the vampire the vampire stops sucking blood.

Will never happen. You can't even break into their home, drive a steak through their heart and torch the place without some politically correct whiner having a fit.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Gazidis and Kroenke are too different issues surely, Kroenke is the silent owner who buys these sports franchises purely as a money making venture, he doesn't invest any of his own capital in it and he makes a bit of money in return (the only difference from before is where the money went to the various shareholders it mainly goes to him now). Gazidis is the burke that the board in their infinite wisdom allowed Arsene Wenger to interview for the position, which shows if anything Wenger is getting a bit insecure in his old age so he hired a boss that would be too incompetent to question anything he did.
I personally am not against the idea of self-sufficiency, but i'd like a bit more transparency from the board about how the money the fans spend on the club is getting used......the wage bill is bloated by crap players milking off it...but if you open your eyes and look around it's the same everywhere.
The man thing i want to change is preventing the situation we seem to have got ourselves for the last few years where we are selling players entering the last year of their contracts, and because we balls up the situation so totally by not putting replacements in place in time so if we do have to sell them we can move on (as we have done in the past) or use harder negotiating tactics to tie these people down to deals.
I'd like to know what the business model is for the club in terms of expanding it's marketing abroad and corporate sponsorship to levy the financial pressure on fans from gate receipts and store purchases.
I'd like to know that when a lot of our current sponsorship deals expire in 2014 will new deals be renegotiated to bring in further revenue.
Is the sale of our top players been used to ease the club's debt burden and if so is there any likely end in sight with this.

[Özim]

There's really only one way to get what you want, you have to hit them where it hurts....in the pocket. If they see revenues dropping they'll soon change their stance.

Problem is right now they can basically do whatever they want and treat fans any way they like, there's so confident there's no repercussions that they just don't give a sh*t....it's sad but it's true....they basically are having a laugh at the fans expense.

[Dicks and chicks]

There's really only one way to get what you want, you have to hit them where it hurts....in the pocket. If they see revenues dropping they'll soon change their stance.

Problem is right now they can basically do whatever they want and treat fans any way they like, there's some confident there's no repercussions that they just don't give a sh*t....it's sad but it's true....they basically are having a laugh at the fans expense.

demand for tickets for arsenal FC will always be there. even if we do badly, thats the problem, the fans need to grow some balls

[Letters]

demand for tickets for arsenal FC will always be there. even if we do badly, thats the problem, the fans need to grow some balls
I don't think that's true. The thing is, under Wenger we've never done that 'badly'.
OK, the lack of trophies has been a disappointment but we've stayed top 4 and have CL football every season.
If we fell into mid-table and if the football became boring (some think it has but it's still a damn sight better than Graham's boring boring Arsenal tedium) then the attendances would fall. Back in those days we struggled to fill Highbury charging far less than we do now. There's no way we'd fill the Emirates with mid-table, boring football.

[Kyle?]

We need to have a truly horrible season, 1 year of mid table mediocrity should see them either change their ways or leave. Or we can go down the Newcastle route and get relegated.

[fakeyank]

Sack AW and that would be the most important step!

[LDG]

Stick em in the brig until they're sober
Stick em in the brig until they're sober
Stick em in the brig until they're sober
Early in the morning!

[Letters]

Sack AW and that would be the most important step!
With this board and a different manager we'd be worse off IMO.

[fakeyank]

With this board and a different manager we'd be worse off IMO.

The buck stops with the manager IMO. It's his tactics and youth policy that have failed over the years. Stan Kroenke is 2 years old so I am not going to blame him for the whole mess. Gazidis is AW's appointment, so needs to go as well.

[Boss]

I don't see why the board is getting blamed for this. They cannot force Wenger to spend, and nor should they given that they have no idea about football.

The wage structure is Wenger's idea (imo), as are the players we recruit. Now you can say we should be doing better, but to be honest Wenger is doing a spectacular job given his league placings and qualifying for the Champions League for 15 years. While I believe we can still win the league, it's only through Wenger's brilliance that we even have a chance of this - the likes of Liverpool, Tottenham, Chelsea have outspent us comfortably and none of them had a chance of winning the league last year either.

I do not think it is possible for us to win the league this year, even if we kept Van Persie and Song... Chelsea and Man City have spent too much and while we can develop a first team that can compete, it is impossible to get squad depth that can match the others without extravagant spending. I used to slate Wenger on here for not doing better in the transfer market, and in some ways our transfer dealing was shocking this summer (namely not getting a player on deadline day) but I'm beginning to understand that going for the title (which is of course, the ultimate aim) is beyond our reach.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I see little to no gain to AFC if these set of owners go and this suffocating Manager stays. AW is quite stubborn and charming and would probably get a typical lazy moneybag eating from his paws.

Preferably they all clear out or the manager goes. That's what I think would be better for AFC in the short and long run.

[Niall_Quinn]

Good grief. I mean honestly - good grief!

Where does this idea that Wenger controls the club come from? If he controls everything then why is his mate Dein out on his arse? Dein was the one who wanted to spend on the squad, right? So Wenger must have known this and friend or not put a stop to it by forcing him out. Ruthless bastard. Then he did Nina Bracewaddle, teed-up the leeches for their £500mill parachute jump and dragged Stan and his mates in to do it all again.

No, of course Wenger didn't do any of this, just like any employee in any business doesn't waltz into the board room and start laying down the law and issuing instructions. The board and shareholders did all the above themselves, but accepted, as the money flowed and the blood flowed they all reminded themselves, "Never forget, when all this half billion quid carnage is over, Wenger is in charge!"

It's just so ridiculous it's hard to know how intelligent human beings can give it credence. And yet the hatred of the manager is so intense any old lazily spun yarn will do.

Even though it's beyond all bounds of reason to suggest the shareholders call the shots - let's just speculate for a moment and say they do. Crazy, but stick with me. What if, as his boss and under a naive and singularly arcane belief they tried to tell Wenger what to do. What if they said, "Arsene, we don't care who you buy, when you buy them, who you sell, how you sell them, but... every year we need at least £10mill in the kitty from transfer activity to make the budget work out!"? And (side issue) what if the players got wind of that? And what if all the evidence we have seen over the years fully supported this wild conspiracy theory?

Alright, I agree. Highly unlikely. What's really happening is Stan, a guy who wants to make a boatload of money from Arsenal, is ringing Wenger up and begging him to spend but Wenger just says, "Stan, who do you think you are? The answer is NO!" And Gazidis says, "You know Arsene, my master, with all due respect you should spend, we want the fans to be happy, this is the main thing!" And Wenger says, "I hired you, I can fire you just as quick, please be quiet, get back to being my puppet!" And Ivan says," Yes, and it's right for you to say that and I will obey!"

Follow the money is not some bullshit catchphrase. It's the history of commerce, politics, just about any human endeavour you can name. Who got rich, who got fucked. Why does the gap between the rich and the poor continue to widen regardless of economic circumstances and climate? Why do these old patterns repeat through history and why can't some people see them when they are plonked in the middle of the room and the size of an elephant?

And then the question goes, why doesn't Wenger resign and go somewhere else if he doesn't get the full control he wants and is restricted by the board? Well, maybe it's because there is no team anywhere in the world that would allow him such freedom because that's how the whole business process works. The people at the top are in charge. No honestly, the people at the top are in charge. Why does this even need to be said? Why is it not kick in the bollocks obvious?

Do they take Wenger's advice. I'm sure they do. I'm sure they place huge stock in it. Do they take Wenger's instructions? No. As in no. No they don't, because if they did that they'd be the ones working for him, right? And why would you pay £500mill to go and work for somebody? When does that ever happen?

[Niall_Quinn]

The buck stops with the manager IMO. It's his tactics and youth policy that have failed over the years. Stan Kroenke is 2 years old so I am not going to blame him for the whole mess. Gazidis is AW's appointment, so needs to go as well.

And why was there a youth policy in the first place? Was it connected to a business plan or merely the arrogant brainchild of Wenger?

[Letters]

The buck stops with the manager IMO. It's his tactics and youth policy that have failed over the years. Stan Kroenke is 2 years old so I am not going to blame him for the whole mess. Gazidis is AW's appointment, so needs to go as well.
In politics or business (which is what football is now) the buck always stops at the highest level which is the board. It's weird how in football it's generally the employee who gets all the flak and rarely the employer.

Wenger is far from blameless but the board have sat back and watched us fail over the last 7 years and done nothing.
And I don't believe for one minute that they're blameless for our transfer policies.

We finished 3rd last year. I 'blame' Wenger for that. Once again Wenger met the board's targets. IMO he'll do so again this year. We were good on Sunday, I fancy us for a top 4 finish. That is the board's target, so long as Wenger keeps hitting it he'll have a job.

[Niall_Quinn]

In politics or business (which is what football is now) the buck always stops at the highest level which is the board. It's weird how in football it's generally the employee who gets all the flak and rarely the employer.

Wenger is far from blameless but the board have sat back and watched us fail over the last 7 years and done nothing.
And I don't believe for one minute that they're blameless for our transfer policies.

We finished 3rd last year. I 'blame' Wenger for that. Once again Wenger met the board's targets. IMO he'll do so again this year. We were good on Sunday, I fancy us for a top 4 finish. That is the board's target, so long as Wenger keeps hitting it he'll have a job.

Sorry but you can't seriously believe that? The previous shareholders and the current ones are all desperate to splash money. They said it over and over, "We wnat to spend but Wenger won't let us!" You know this, they have tried their best but Wenger has fucked them and all they have left to show for their efforts is half a billion quid split between them and for negligible investment. Pity them, more victims of the destroyer Wenger.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The buck stops with the manager IMO. It's his tactics and youth policy that have failed over the years. Stan Kroenke is 2 years old so I am not going to blame him for the whole mess. Gazidis is AW's appointment, so needs to go as well.

Your right, but if you think Aw going will mean some top class manager coming in more fool you. don't get it twisted i want him out, but i can only see A wenger mark 2 coming in. Why because while stan is here and knows he can make money thats what he will do. Lets not forger the board have said wenger can hace a say in his sucessor.

Wenger being shite and tactics is a diffrent issue to board stuff.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We finished 3rd last year. I 'blame' Wenger for that. Once again Wenger met the board's targets. IMO he'll do so again this year. We were good on Sunday, I fancy us for a top 4 finish. That is the board's target, so long as Wenger keeps hitting it he'll have a job.

Spot on, If Roman was in charge our club no way wenger would still have a job.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

There's really only one way to get what you want, you have to hit them where it hurts....in the pocket. If they see revenues dropping they'll soon change their stance.

Problem is right now they can basically do whatever they want and treat fans any way they like, there's so confident there's no repercussions that they just don't give a sh*t....it's sad but it's true....they basically are having a laugh at the fans expense.

Pretty much.

[jelgoon]

You say `going for the title' but we have won nothing for seven years -not even a Carling Cup. I dont agree with your analysis of Wenger - hes not half as brilliant as you say he is. You mention Chelsea but they won the Champions League last season and consistently win things - even if its FA Cups. Their CL win was down to inspirational management and not bottling it at the final hurdle. Liverpool admittedly have done terribly but Man Utd dont spend colossal amounts of money anymore in net terms and still win titles. They also hang on to their old players like Giggs and Scholes who are still doing it at 30 something. In contrast we cant hang onto anyone decent. The real issue is whether Wenger could have spent more money but chose not to or didnt have the money in the first place. Everyone here assumes the latter but im not so sure.

[Marc Overmars]

In politics or business (which is what football is now) the buck always stops at the highest level which is the board. It's weird how in football it's generally the employee who gets all the flak and rarely the employer.
.

In our case the employer and employee have merged into 1.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't see why the board is getting blamed for this. They cannot force Wenger to spend, and nor should they given that they have no idea about football. The wage structure is Wenger's idea (imo), as are the players we recruit. Now you can say we should be doing better, but to be honest Wenger is doing a spectacular job given his league placings and qualifying for the Champions League for 15 years. While I believe we can still win the league, it's only through Wenger's brilliance that we even have a chance of this - the likes of Liverpool, Tottenham, Chelsea have outspent us comfortably and none of them had a chance of winning the league last year either.

I do not think it is possible for us to win the league this year, even if we kept Van Persie and Song... Chelsea and Man City have spent too much and while we can develop a first team that can compete, it is impossible to get squad depth that can match the others without extravagant spending. I used to slate Wenger on here for not doing better in the transfer market, and in some ways our transfer dealing was shocking this summer (namely not getting a player on deadline day) but I'm beginning to understand that going for the title (which is of course, the ultimate aim) is beyond our reach

.
The board get the blame cause they allow this shit to happen, no way would Roman abromavich allow Wenger to remain for this long if he was in charge.

Is it Wengers fault Fizman and Nina sold their shares to Stan and not the russian. is it Wenges fault Dein was kicked out of the club. is it Wengers fault Hillwood acts like an Ass.

Wenger is no way blamess but to put all the blame on him is stupid. Do i think the board are screwing wenger no, but i think they have to take their share of the blame. You say they don't know alot about football but if someone has falied to win something for 7 years if your an ambtious owner who wants to see success you sack them its that simple.

The fact stan more or less lets Wenger and Ivan run the club shows the bad choices he makes, would the russian allow this to happen, would roman Hell no.

[Letters]

In our case the employer and employee have merged into 1.
There is something in that but even so that still doesn't mean one can blame one and absolve the other.

[Dicks and chicks]

fuck sakes.

[Ollie the Optimist]

the only way to hurt them is to vote with your feet. and that wont happen, there is no way we will stay away from games etc, one or two might but not enough to make a difference. i want change but ill still go etc to support them, so the club will still get money and not give a shit, and there will be many others like me. its a no win situation for us. we're fucked

[Olivier's xmas twist]

the only way to hurt them is to vote with your feet. and that wont happen, there is no way we will stay away from games etc, one or two might but not enough to make a difference. i want change but ill still go etc to support them, so the club will still get money and not give a shit, and there will be many others like me. its a no win situation for us. we're fucked

Pretty much, just enjoy yourself tbh.

[Globalgunner]

The only thing predictable is how GW descends into the metronomic squabble over ho is to blame. Board or Wenger.

The answer is simple. When has a team been relegated and the board been sacked. When has a team been succesful and the board been praised. Chelsea were dire under AVB and cruised under RDM. who made the changed on the pitch and in the dressing room, was it Roman. This is stupid.....We have in the last 6 years constantly sold our best player...without fail. Is someone telling Arsene that he MUST do this. We all said on this board before the game that if Wenger played Rambo and santos we would get beat......Did someone on the board insist that they MUST play.

Players dont usually love the team they play for, neither do managers. the only people that love teams are fans, because we live vicariouly through team due to the ribbing we get from opposition fans. Dont blame the players. How many of you love the company you work for....that is. Would turn down a better offer from another business to stay with them. All things considered, if its bettter for you and your family YOU will leave. Arsenal`s problem is that the club and the manager have become inextricably entwined. in many minds they are the same thing,, worse still, the manager and the board it seems have bought into this, one side for reasons of low aspiration, the other for self delusion. Players and tactics are the reasons we fail, wenger is solely to blame for both.

Some say he shows on the touchline that he cares for the club......Bloody hell. Mark Hughes, shows more emotion than Wenger ever did. Which of Backburn, Mancity, Fulham or QPR does He love?. Its just a fuckin job, the only thing they love is the cash rewards and they hate sitting at home jobless. Wenger will never leave arsenal as he really is a clueless git who will be out on his ear after 2 seasons if he ever dared show up at Inter,AC. PSG, or any club in Spain. only at Arsenal do we suffer fools in perpetuity.

failure is a self propagating philosophy, the more you fail, the more likely you are to continue to fail, unless you change your gameplan. We do not plan to succeed, so we continue to fail. We only plan to make as much money possible with the least possible expenditure. If the product being sold at Arsenal PLC was not football, someone should have been arrested for fraud because we the fans are definitely being sold a lie.

[GP]

the only way to hurt them is to vote with your feet.

I tried, I couldn't hold the pencil between my toes.

I'm sure Gareth Bale could, though.

[gunnerrrrr]

Wenger should go first, he selects the players, says who we buy who we sell, tactics, subs everything...those other two numpties are wankers but at this juncture the biggest problem is Arsene and his outdated ways

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I tried, I couldn't hold the pencil between my toes.

I'm sure Gareth Bale could, though.


:haha:

[Globalgunner]

The Wigan manager Roberto Martinez would be a massive improvement on Wenger TBH. We should bring him in JAN and pension off the Wengit.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wenger should go first, he selects the players, says who we buy who we sell, tactics, subs everything...those other two numpties are wankers but at this juncture the biggest problem is Arsene and his outdated ways

Yep when he goes, they will apoint a top class manager, not someother guy to stuff their pockets.


The only thing predictable is how GW descends into the metronomic squabble over ho is to blame. Board or Wenger.

The answer is simple. When has a team been relegated and the board been sacked. When has a team been succesful and the board been praised. Chelsea were dire under AVB and cruised under RDM. who made the changed on the pitch and in the dressing room, was it Roman. This is stupid.....We have in the last 6 years constantly sold our best player...without fail. Is someone telling Arsene that he MUST do this. We all said on this board before the game that if Wenger played Rambo and santos we would get beat......Did someone on the board insist that they MUST play.

Players dont usually love the team they play for, neither do managers. the only people that love teams are fans, because we live vicariouly through team due to the ribbing we get from opposition fans. Dont blame the players. How many of you love the company you work for....that is. Would turn down a better offer from another business to stay with them. All things considered, if its bettter for you and your family YOU will leave. Arsenal`s problem is that the club and the manager have become inextricably entwined. in many minds they are the same thing,, worse still, the manager and the board it seems have bought into this, one side for reasons of low aspiration, the other for self delusion. Players and tactics are the reasons we fail, wenger is solely to blame for both.

Some say he shows on the touchline that he cares for the club......Bloody hell. Mark Hughes, shows more emotion than Wenger ever did. Which of Backburn, Mancity, Fulham or QPR does He love?. Its just a fuckin job, the only thing they love is the cash rewards and they hate sitting at home jobless. Wenger will never leave arsenal as he really is a clueless git who will be out on his ear after 2 seasons if he ever dared show up at Inter,AC. PSG, or any club in Spain. only at Arsenal do we suffer fools in perpetuity.

failure is a self propagating philosophy, the more you fail, the more likely you are to continue to fail, unless you change your gameplan. We do not plan to succeed, so we continue to fail. We only plan to make as much money possible with the least possible expenditure. If the product being sold at Arsenal PLC was not football, someone should have been arrested for fraud because we the fans are definitely being sold a lie.

Yes, hew sacked the useless manager and brought in the new one, or did robbie appoint himself. So if the board are not happy with Wenger of think he has done a bad job, he'd not be there.

Do you think Wenger would keep his job under Roman or a chairman who wanted results. Give Wenger a chairman who takes no BS you see the change straight away.

[saintnickle]

If arsene truly loves the club surely he would have a concience about earning/taking 50 million since we last won a trophy.Who else would be paid 7 million a year and not be able to see what the rest of the us in santos and ramsey.We didnt go out yesterday to beat utd and that is the most worrying thing about it all.As long as we werent battered that was all that mattered.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If arsene truly loves the club surely he would have a concience about earning/taking 50 million since we last won a trophy.Who else would be paid 7 million a year and not be able to see what the rest of the us in santos and ramsey.We didnt go out yesterday to beat utd and that is the most worrying thing about it all.As long as we werent battered that was all that mattered.

If someone pays you silly wages you will take it, anyone who says otherwise is talking tosh.

[saintnickle]

If someone pays you silly wages you will take it, anyone who says otherwise is talking tosh.

Whilst telling others that we have a wage structure in place ,that him and gazidis are exempt from.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Whilst telling others that we have a wage structure in place ,that him and gazidis are exempt from.

Well they are in charge so yes.

[saintnickle]

They dont own the club they are all staff just like the players.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

They dont own the club they are all staff just like the players.

No they don't but they are in higher positions then those of the players. In any walk of life the manager will always be treated diffrent to players/workers. Its the way of the world. I don't agree with it, but hey if the board wan't to pay their manager and who ever what they want go fot it. Its not my money.

If players can look out for themselves then why should not managers. To me they are all the same anyways.

[Özim]

I reckon if we setup a worldwide treasure hunt with the treasure being 7 million Gazidis might disappear off for a few months.

Kroenke is a little more difficult, maybe a lifetime's supply of coffee and donuts would do it?

[saintnickle]

But surely you cant take the moral high ground then.Nearly 10 million a year between him and gazidis is daylight robbery.Neither of those 2 can have a concience ,never mind a heart to love the club with.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

But surely you cant take the moral high ground then.Nearly 10 million a year between him and gazidis is daylight robbery.Neither of those 2 can have a concience ,never mind a heart to love the club with.

Never said it was not.


I reckon if we setup a worldwide treasure hunt with the treasure being 7 million Gazidis might disappear off for a few months.

Kroenke is a little more difficult, maybe a lifetime's supply of coffee and donuts would do it?

Krispe Kremes :bow:

[Cripps_orig]

Put them in the first team and hope they impress the Manc clubs or Barca

[LDG]

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/arsenal-fans-turn-on-board-8282097.html


An Arsenal supporters’ group have arranged a demonstration where they will call for drastic changes to the club’s board, spending policy and ticket scheme.

Arsenal’s travelling fans aimed their anger at chief executive Ivan Gazidis during Saturday’s 2-1 defeat at Manchester United.

Protest group ‘Where Has Our Arsenal Gone?’ are planning a march before the game against Swansea on December 1 where they will demand chairman Peter Hill-Wood is removed from the board.

They also want minority shareholder Alisher Usmanov to be given a seat on the board, questions to be asked about who purchases players and changes to the club’s ticketing policy. Marc Harold from Where Has Our Arsenal Gone? said: “We’ve been sold the future for five years now, that tomorrow we’ll arrive at the promised land.

“We aren’t labelling it as a protest march, although we are demanding changes at boardroom level. The board has lost focus, is complacent and insular, feeling all is rosy at Arsenal when it most certainly isn’t.

“We have done this before (in May 2011) and the turnout was a few hundred. I’d safely say that number will be quite a bit bigger this time.”

[Power n Glory]

It has begun.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/arsenal-fans-turn-on-board-8282097.html

Animal Farm. time to drive the pigs out :coffee:

[Kano]

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/arsenal-fans-turn-on-board-8282097.html

fucking lazy

:itsme:

[LDG]

:lol:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

fucking lazy

:itsme:

:haha:

[Özim]

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/arsenal-fans-turn-on-board-8282097.html
No need to thank me a few expensive gifts at Christmas will do!

[Özim]

fucking lazy

:itsme:
:lol:

[LDG]

No need to thank me a few expensive gifts at Christmas will do!

Expensive rope eh?

[Özim]

Expensive rope eh?
As long as it's made of gold and can be melted down PHW will gladly accept.

[LDG]

:lol:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/arsenal-fans-turn-on-board-8282097.html

Well its a start i guess, just hope the board sit up and take note.

[LDG]

Well its a start i guess, just hope the board sit up and take note.

Rofl.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Rofl.

I know., they all laugh from their boats with their nice cigars.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Boats can burn though.

Hopefully. :ninja:

[Özim]

Boats can burn though.

Hopefully. :ninja:
True but they probably have fireproof yachts.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

True but they probably have fireproof yachts.

With their Initials on too.

[jelgoon]

Id prefer to get rid of Wenger for starters and see how another manager does with our current squad and a few additions. Problem is a lot of Arsenal fans incredibly still like him and think he is the right person for the job. I went away a few weeks back and there was almost a ruck between pro and anti-Wenger Arsenal fans sitting in the same stand.Ive gotta say the pro-Wenger fans talked shit most of the time and didnt have a clue about anything.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Id prefer to get rid of Wenger for starters and see how another manager does with our current squad and a few additions. Problem is a lot of Arsenal fans incredibly still like him and think he is the right person for the job. I went away a few weeks back and there was almost a ruck between pro and anti-Wenger Arsenal fans sitting in the same stand.Ive gotta say the pro-Wenger fans talked shit most of the time and didnt have a clue about anything.

They'd have said the same about you, if you know what i mean. I just find this whole thing silly, fans split and all that, just upsets me to see it.

[Niall_Quinn]

True but they probably have fireproof yachts.

And they've probably found a way to claim on the fans' insurance policies by now.

[jelgoon]

Youre probably right about me. And I didnt like it one bit - never seen anything like it to be honest and I've been going away on-and-off for 30 years.
They'd have said the same about you, id you know what i mean. I just find this whole thing silly, fans split and all that, just upsets me to see it.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Youre probably right about me. And I didnt like it one bit - never seen anything like it to be honest and I've been going away on-and-off for 30 years.

Its sad really.

[Özim]

Id prefer to get rid of Wenger for starters and see how another manager does with our current squad and a few additions. Problem is a lot of Arsenal fans incredibly still like him and think he is the right person for the job. I went away a few weeks back and there was almost a ruck between pro and anti-Wenger Arsenal fans sitting in the same stand.Ive gotta say the pro-Wenger fans talked shit most of the time and didnt have a clue about anything.
Pro Wenger fans seem pretty irrational to be honest, getting annoyed about the slightest thing and escalating things. The don't like a bad word said about a guy who has no relation to them, it's not like you're having a go at a member of their family.

I've seen it on here in the past, with some if you go against Wenger you're some sort of anti-christ. Having a difference of opinion is fine IMO, but some Wengerites just can't cope with the fact someone doesn't really like Wenger being in charge and thinks he's should be replaced....it's odd.

[Marc Overmars]

Pro Wenger fans seem pretty irrational to be honest, getting annoyed about the slightest thing and escalating things. The don't like a bad word said about a guy who has no relation to them, it's not like you're having a go at a member of their family.

I've seen it on here in the past, with some if you go against Wenger you're some sort of anti-christ. Having a difference of opinion is fine IMO, but some Wengerites just can't cope with the fact someone doesn't really like Wenger being in charge and thinks he's should be replaced....it's odd.

People are just apprehensive over change.

Which tbf I am as well because Wenger is all I've known for 90% of my Arsenal supporting life, but I'm over the sentiment now. I know things could get worse but I'd hate for my final memories of Wenger to be what they are now. I want to remember him for all the good he's done but that's becoming increasingly blurred.

[Özim]

People are just apprehensive over change.

Which tbf I am as well because Wenger is all I've known for 90% of my Arsenal supporting life, but I'm over the sentiment now. I know things could get worse but I'd hate for my final memories of Wenger to be what they are now. I want to remember him for all the good he's done but that's becoming increasingly blurred.
I understand that to be honest, he's been in charge a long time and everything about the club is geared towards him, it's the hostile attitude I've seen by Wengerites that's I have a problem with....it's like they can't cope with the fact someone else could possibly have a different opinion that's doesn't involve Wenger being the almighty. The hostility between Arsenal fans described above is a perfect example, these people need to grow up to be honest.

I just think he's going to leave sometime and he's clearly not doing a great job these days so why not let someone else have a go, it'll be hard but hopefully we find the right man.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Pro Wenger fans seem pretty irrational to be honest, getting annoyed about the slightest thing and escalating things. The don't like a bad word said about a guy who has no relation to them, it's not like you're having a go at a member of their family.

I've seen it on here in the past, with some if you go against Wenger you're some sort of anti-christ. Having a difference of opinion is fine IMO, but some Wengerites just can't cope with the fact someone doesn't really like Wenger being in charge and thinks he's should be replaced....it's odd.

Not 1 person on here has had ago, at anyone for saying Wenger out. Just cause they don't say Wenger out every 2 mins does not mean they want him to stay. Just cause they don't call him a **** does not mean they want him to stay.

Some people know how to be rational. The Anti Wenger People are as bad as the Pro Wenger people not sure why you take the moral high ground, cause if someone don't agree with you, There wrong, Wenger has to be a loser, if you don't say that your sticking up got him.

Those that hate him are just as irrational as don't who don't.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

People are just apprehensive over change.

Which tbf I am as well because Wenger is all I've known for 90% of my Arsenal supporting life, but I'm over the sentiment now. I know things could get worse but I'd hate for my final memories of Wenger to be what they are now. I want to remember him for all the good he's done but that's becoming increasingly blurred.

Spot on, this is the thing. People hate change, its not about Wenger going, its about whats coming. People are skeptical, they don't want us to have 10 diffrent managers in the next 5 years if things go wrong. People want to know the future of the club is secure.

Once a new manager comes in and he wins his 1st trophy, fans will feel more relaxed and accept its a new era.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Not 1 person on here has had ago, at anyone for saying Wenger out. Just cause they don't say Wenger out every 2 mins does not mean they want him to stay. Just cause they don't call him a **** does not mean they want him to stay.

Some people know how to be rational. The Anti Wenger People are as bad as the Pro Wenger people not sure why you take the moral high ground, cause if someone don't agree with you, There wrong, Wenger has to be a loser, if you don't say that your sticking up got him.

Those that hate him are just as irrational as don't who don't.

Charlie you can blab on as much as you want, but what has happened is that pro-wengers have had to tone down the vitriol they used to spew at the anti-wengers up to few months ago, for obvious reasons.

I'm trying hard to be respectful and not laugh at your you claiming that wenger-ites are rational.























Oh fuck it :haha:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Charlie you can blab on as much as you want, but what has happened is that pro-wengers have had to tone down the vitriol they used to spew at the anti-wengers up to few months ago, for obvious reasons.

I'm trying hard to be respectful and not laugh at your you claiming that wenger-ites are rational.























Oh fuck it :haha:

Don't buy that at all. Those that want to stick up for Wenger still do, Ollie does, But you don't here him go overboard, or insult anyone who wants wenger out.

Like i said both are irrational as the other. None like being wrong.

[Özim]

Not 1 person on here has had ago, at anyone for saying Wenger out. Just cause they don't say Wenger out every 2 mins does not mean they want him to stay. Just cause they don't call him a **** does not mean they want him to stay.

Some people know how to be rational. The Anti Wenger People are as bad as the Pro Wenger people not sure why you take the moral high ground, cause if someone don't agree with you, There wrong, Wenger has to be a loser, if you don't say that your sticking up got him.

Those that hate him are just as irrational as don't who don't.
Do me a favour it's been happening for absolute years, nowadays they obviously are in the minority so aren't quite as gutsy but that doesn't change anything, those people use to use to completely lose it when someone dared question his ways.

People are allowed their opinions as far as I'm concerned, I've had mine and stuck with it whether people agreed or not, I never lose it and start insulting people or find ways to get at them because I don't agree.

[Özim]

Don't buy that at all. Those that want to stick up for Wenger still do, Ollie does, But you don't here him go overboard, or insult anyone who wants wenger out.

Like i said both are irrational as the other. None like being wrong.
Totally disagree, Wengerites have always been far more vicious and insulting, in many ways they established and encouraged a gang mentality, now there's less of them they're obviously a lot more cowardly and quiet in small numbers.

The scene described at the match doesn't surprise me because the highly pro Wenger brigade people can't cope with anything bad being said about Wenger.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Totally disagree, Wengerites have always been far more vicious and insulting, in many ways they established and encouraged a gang mentality, now there's less of them they're obviously a lot more cowardly and quiet in small numbers.

The scene described at the match doesn't surprise me because the highly pro Wenger brigade people can't cope with anything bad being said about Wenger.

:gp:

Part in bold :haha:

Teflon suit :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Totally disagree, Wengerites have always been far more vicious and insulting, in many ways they established and encouraged a gang mentality, now there's less of them they're obviously a lot more cowardly and quiet in small numbers.

The scene described at the match doesn't surprise me because the highly pro Wenger brigade people can't cope with anything bad being said about Wenger.

Never said anything about the match im talking about on here. How can talk about something i was no there to see. On here i don't see people be Vicious and insulting If they stick up for Wenger.

Name me 1 person on here who has done that.

If it happens at the game thats a diffrent issue.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Do me a favour it's been happening for absolute years, nowadays they obviously are in the minority so aren't quite as gutsy but that doesn't change anything, those people use to use to completely lose it when someone dared question his ways.

People are allowed their opinions as far as I'm concerned, I've had mine and stuck with it whether people agreed or not, I never lose it and start insulting people or find ways to get at them because I don't agree.

Fair enough. And i agee you don't insult people i'll give you that 1.

[Özim]

Never said anything about the match im talking about on here. How can talk about something i was no there to see. On here i don't see people be Vicious and insulting If they stick up for Wenger.

Name me 1 person on here who has done that.

If it happens at the game thats a diffrent issue.
I'm not going to name names but there's been plenty of people over the years, the point I was making was the irrational behaviour of the fans at the away match specified isn't that surprising as some have a very bad reaction to the questioning of Wenger ability (or have had in the past).

It's now far harder for them to take such a stance of course as most people now disagree with them and will state as much.

[Joker]

Zim's right, especially on the old board anyone who questioned Wenger forcefully was quickly shot down. In fact I was probably one of those who (wrongly) felt that Wenger wasn't the problem and criticised those who said it was time to go. I was repeating the same defences of Wenger in 06-07, 07-08,08-09, 09-10 and most of 10-11, before I finally realised that it was time for him to go.

Of course, Wenger leaving by itself won't change much, because if the board are the same, they'll simply hire a yes man who believe in their free market ideology.

[Globalgunner]

You only have to dig up the old GW (innervision) to recall all the diatribe spewed out by the Wengerites. Some of us have been on his case for 4 years or more. Back then, the wenger supporters would hear none of it, even some now masquerading as moderates. They were the one s who would jump down your throat as soon as you said anything anti wenger. I recall someone once telling me that I could criticise Wenger all I want but never insult him as he deserves much more than that. Football is about entertainment i was told winning things is for glory huntersMark my words if we beat Fulham and win the NLD. It will be all hunky dory again......4th place trophy ...its on.

[Globalgunner]

Zim's right, especially on the old board anyone who questioned Wenger forcefully was quickly shot down. In fact I was probably one of those who (wrongly) felt that Wenger wasn't the problem and criticised those who said it was time to go. I was repeating the same defences of Wenger in 06-07, 07-08,08-09, 09-10 and most of 10-11, before I finally realised that it was time for him to go.Of course, Wenger leaving by itself won't change much, because if the board are the same, they'll simply hire a yes man who believe in their free market ideology.No board insists that he play Ramsey on the wing. He said he had no options when Wishire was on course for a red card. Would it have been implausible to take him off, move Ramsey inside and play Jenks on the wing.....but then again he has made more than 6,000 subs in his time. What do we know.?

[Joker]

No board insists that he play Ramsey on the wing. He said he had no options when Wishire was on course for a red card. Would it have been implausible to take him off, move Ramsey inside and play Jenks on the wing.....but then again he has made more than 6,000 subs in his time. What do we know.?

That's true, his tactical and personnel choices have been staggering poor in the last 6-7 years.

[LDG]

No board insists that he play Ramsey on the wing. He said he had no options when Wishire was on course for a red card. Would it have been implausible to take him off, move Ramsey inside and play Jenks on the wing.....but then again he has made more than 6,000 subs in his time. What do we know.?

Apart from the fact he'd already taken Ramsby off of course.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Apart from the fact he'd already taken Ramsby off of course.

:haha:

[Power n Glory]

Apart from the fact he'd already taken Ramsby off of course.

Coquelin instead and push Arteta forward. Or throw caution to the wind and play Arshsvin further up and drop Cazorla a little deeper.

[LDG]

Coquelin instead and push Arteta forward. Or throw caution to the wind and play Arshsvin further up and drop Cazorla a little deeper.

This is the one thing I'm not gonna delve too far into with the Jack thing. I get that Fergie did well in taking off his young lad, but we were chasing (LoL, I say chasing, when I should say, labouring) the game....keeping one of your best players on gets a "fair enough" from me.

It was the rest of the shoddy tactics that pissed me off.

But yeah, if the argument was who would replace Jack, then, yeah, Coq on would have been the one....he may well have give us a bit more drive too. You never know.

[Power n Glory]

This is the one thing I'm not gonna delve too far into with the Jack thing. I get that Fergie did well in taking off his young lad, but we were chasing (LoL, I say chasing, when I should say, labouring) the game....keeping one of your best players on gets a "fair enough" from me.

It was the rest of the shoddy tactics that pissed me off.

But yeah, if the argument was who would replace Jack, then, yeah, Coq on would have been the one....he may well have give us a bit more drive too. You never know.

True indeed. Yellow or not, I think he needed to make a change in the middle anyway because Arteta and Cazorla were having poor games.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

i say we tie charlie naked to a lamppost outside the stadium and leave a note on his ballsack that reads 'Ivan, you're next. Love from Alisher'





















































http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01399/alisher-usmanov_1399759c.jpg

[Olivier's xmas twist]

i say we tie charlie naked to a lamppost outside the stadium and leave a note on his ballsack that reads 'Ivan, you're next. Love from Alisher'

:lol:

Any takers :coffee:

[Dicks and chicks]

need more ideas people!

[Niall_Quinn]

need more ideas people!

All my methods would be frowned upon and unnecessarily, completely OTT violent. They aren't going anywhere if they are given even the slightest opportunity to stay.