Goodbye Sanga?

[V-Pig]

That reminds me, I must get my tinfoil hat mended.

[GP]

tl;dr

[LDG]

That reminds me, I must get my tinfoil hat mended.

I'll do it for you for £250.00


*thinks he'll be easily fooled*

[V-Pig]

Does that include fixing the indicators on the back?

[Niall_Quinn]

That reminds me, I must get my tinfoil hat mended.

Of course you should, you don't want substance leaking into to a vacuum.

[LDG]

Does that include fixing the indicators on the back?

Sure. Why not!

[V-Pig]

Of course you should, you don't want substance leaking into to a vacuum.

Tin foil wouldn't stop that!

[V-Pig]

He's turning right!

[Cripps_orig]

:gp:

You didnt even read it did you?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You didnt even read it did you?

Yes i did and even if i'd did not its NQ when is he ever Wrong?

[Cripps_orig]

Yes i did and even if i'd did not its NQ when is he ever Wrong?

Impressive

When hes talking about Theo, Wenger, Euro 2012, International tournaments and plenty of other times.

[Maestro]

Wenger is 100% correct in a limited sense and 100% wrong in that he avoids the bigger picture. When you take the cash it's a given you shut your mouth. If you knowingly work for a corrupt company that uses forced labour then you're complicit and a criminal. Arsenal is most certainly a corrupt company by any realistic definition - a few at the top who invest very little and extract the maximum to the detriment of the majority. Fraud and theft when you don't have friends who write the law. White collar crime vs blue collar crime. A blinkered world view can help disguise these facts. Most people prefer to brush knowing participation under a mental carpet, others have principles. Some people value ignorance and the peace of mind it brings, others have respect for themselves. Sagna is a whore, just like Wenger and just like (almost) anyone else who works for a corporation. The stated aim of a corporation is to maximise profits for the shareholders as a priority to all other considerations. Therefore, in most cases (there are a very few exceptions now mostly expired), modern corporations are the very definition of evil and indeed insanity. Few will appreciate this because few understand what profit and money really is. I don't want to come across as a **** and there's a definite danger I've failed in that, but isn't it about time people got educated about the world they live in? Corporations hoard profit and funnel it upwards (check the published financial and economic data since 1970 and prior to 1920 for proof beyond reasonable doubt, plus the regularity of the "accidental" boom-bust cycle prior to those dates). Corporations socialise harm (ditto). Anyone involved in this process is a criminal, from the tea lady through to the top officers. Lots of excuses can be made to forgive these simple facts but the excuses don't mitigate the harm. I wonder where Arsenal gets all those shirts and baubles sold in their shop? Enslaving people through criminal manipulation of the economy is self evidently evil. Man Utd have already been caught for this and done nothing, yes? So Wenger is correct in one respect. When you are part of a criminal enterprise you play along, keep up the pretence, make sure the game endures uninterrupted. Don't get greedy, wait for your turn at the trough. Sagna took the cash, he should shut his hole, bend over and take it up the arse because that's what he signed up for. That's what the cash is for. Poor **** is only a mediocre footballer so the money is not for that, right?


Political Economy 101

Fantastic post NQ, nailed it ....but you will be surprised, well you won't, but there are a lot of people ignorant to the game you've just laid bare here.

Top top top quality post,...it's like a new signing

[Power n Glory]

but he was asked a question in a press conference. if he says no comment, then the press will go mad saying wenger refuses to answer sagna questions, must mean he is off etc.

the best answer is the one he gave

Sagna was probably asked about our the summer transfer dealings and he answered.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Sagna was probably asked about our the summer transfer dealings and he answered.

He should not have. Or at least not in that way. I can't speak of my work to clients in a similar way, I'll get done for it.

I'm not disagreeing with what Sagna said and there are many things I disagree with at work, but I don't share this with my clients.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Sagna was probably asked about our the summer transfer dealings and he answered.

I swear Sagna Went to the media not the media came to him.

[Power n Glory]

He should not have. Or at least not in that way. I can't speak of my work to clients in a similar way, I'll get done for it.

I'm not disagreeing with what Sagna said and there are many things I disagree with at work, but I don't share this with my clients.

Well, he's probably past the point of caring. It's a common trend at the club and won't change unless the club changes. We relate this issue to work, but if a company has a high turn over and employees always leave on bad terms, you have to start looking at the management and environment at some point.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Well, he's probably past the point of caring. It's a common trend at the club and won't change unless the club changes. We relate this issue to work, but if a company has a high turn over and employees always leave on bad terms, you have to start looking at the management and environment at some point.
Keeping the work related trend here, it is all about keeping the shareholders happy - well Arsenal shareholders over the last 16 years are probably amongst the happiest in this country. Under-performing employees are rolling in it. And it is the management that have delivered it.

Sucks to be a fan.

[Power n Glory]

Keeping the work related trend here, it is all about keeping the shareholders happy - well Arsenal shareholders over the last 16 years are probably amongst the happiest in this country. Under-performing employees are rolling in it. And it is the management that have delivered it.

Sucks to be a fan.

That's why we get this sort of backlash from players. We're on a road to nowhere.

[Xhaka Can’t]

That's why we get this sort of backlash from players. We're on a road to nowhere.

The same players - Sagna among them that are earning more than they would anywhere else given their ability and achievements.

[Özim]

The same players - Sagna among them that are earning more than they would anywhere else given their ability and achievements.
Despite popular belief, most players aren't just happy to sit there an win nothing whilst picking up their paycheck. Sure there are some that are but generally a good player will want to pick up trophies in his career.

If you don't offer a chance of success money will only get you so far.

We don't just lose our best players because of money, we lose them because we're happy with 4th place and aren't too bothered about success, they may well get a pay rise as well but that's not the main reason in most cases.

[gooners]

Sagna took the cash, he should shut his hole, bend over and take it up the arse because that's what he signed up for. That's what the cash is for. Poor **** is only a mediocre footballer so the money is not for that, right?

Errm.... NQ --- sagna has no say in the way AFC is ran, does he? Or do you know something we don't?
And the last time I checked, no player has single-handedly carried a mediocre bunch of team mates to glory over a course of tortous season such as in football-- certainly not in any credible team sport; and certainly not from the full-back position, in football.

Sagna was signed to play for AFC --- and he signed from Auxerre probably under the assumption that he was moving up professionally. He's realised, like many others before him, that AFC leads nowhere. How is he complicit in the con Wenger & Co. have perpetrated? I think your analogy is not sound in this case. Is he merely guilty by association then?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Despite popular belief, most players aren't just happy to sit there an win nothing whilst picking up their paycheck. Sure there are some that are but generally a good player will want to pick up trophies in his career.

If you don't offer a chance of success money will only get you so far.

We don't just lose our best players because of money, we lose them because we're happy with 4th place and aren't too bothered about success, they may well get a pay rise as well but that's not the main reason in most cases.

If I'm not happy in my job - I move on.

If Sagna aint happy - he should cut the crap and put in a transfer request - from the treatment table.

[gooners]

If I'm not happy in my job - I move on.

If Sagna aint happy - he should cut the crap and put in a transfer request - from the treatment table.

maybe he is gonna?
and in your job, i doubt you are interviewed by the press at every turn.

Honestly, i don't even see what was wrong with what he said. Wenger has said the same kind of stuff in the press. And Wenger has repeatedly insulted the fans who pay his ridiculous salary, in the press. This world is different from the real working world :good:

[Xhaka Can’t]

maybe he is gonna?
and in your job, i doubt you are interviewed by the press at every turn.

Honestly, i don't even see what was wrong with what he said. Wenger has said the same kind of stuff in the press. And Wenger has repeatedly insulted the fans who pays his ridiculous salary, in the press. This world is different from the real working world :good:

I get asked many things by clients. If I act unprofessionally when dealing with them and undermine my employer, I'll face sanction. But it isn't about me - it is a common occurrence in the working environment.

I don't disagree with what he said - but I disagree with him saying it. And he probably won't put in a transfer request - it compromises his loyalty bonus and I doubt there will be a multitude of suitors for him while in the treatment room.

[Kano]

no doubt it was a play to garner an attractive offer from arsenal for a final pay day and if its not up to what he wants, others will come in with better terms and he'll be off.

[gooners]

no doubt it was a play to garner an attractive offer from arsenal for a final pay day and if its not up to what he wants, others will come in with better terms and he'll be off.

he will get a far better wage at city/chelsea/utd and even pool without saying anything if he is for sale or actually wants out.

[jelgoon]

Totally right. People go on about money here but professional sportsman are competitive and want to win things. WE DONT WIN THINGS ANYMORE THATS WHY THEY WANT TO LEAVE
Despite popular belief, most players aren't just happy to sit there an win nothing whilst picking up their paycheck. Sure there are some that are but generally a good player will want to pick up trophies in his career.

If you don't offer a chance of success money will only get you so far.

We don't just lose our best players because of money, we lose them because we're happy with 4th place and aren't too bothered about success, they may well get a pay rise as well but that's not the main reason in most cases.

[Globalgunner]

I think this Wengeritis or Arsenalitis disease is affecting even us fans. ARSENAL are a SPORTING enterprise not a cotton bud manufacturer so all this stuff about analogy to corporations and company/client priviledges is absolute guff. Sagna voiced the same concerns that we FANS have been moaning about for years that we are no longer set up to win trophies and people go out of their way to castigate him for it, calling him an average injury plagued player, when in reality he has for 5 seasons been our most CONSISTENT player in his position and has only been seriously injured last season in six years. The basic fact is that this club is NOT set up to win special trophies, hell we cannot even win the tiddlywink ones again. The same rationale that RVP used to leave us is what Sagna has spoken out on, the difference being that the ungrateful dutchman levered his way out while Sagna is not in a position to do so. Sagna too is wondering if he will leave here in 2 years time having been sold a story at 24 about a team going places only to see that 4th place is our self imposed ceiling.

You could argue that Sagna sparked the salvage of last season with his goal against the spuds. I for one believe that without that comeback and win in that game we would be talking about UEFA cup games now now CL. We should not in our frustration simply lash out at any convenient target and should instead refocus on what is the true source of our agony. Wenger and his continued delusions and our club management who thinks winning is a bridge too far and are falling over themselves now to extend Wenger`s contract for maybe another 5 years. Can you imagine another 7 years of this shit.

[Letters]

Despite popular belief, most players aren't just happy to sit there an win nothing whilst picking up their paycheck. Sure there are some that are but generally a good player will want to pick up trophies in his career.
As will a good manager but that's the exact lazy accusation you and others level at Wenger.
As always, shifting the goalposts to suit your argument.

[Özim]

As will a good manager but that's the exact lazy accusation you and others level at Wenger.
As always, shifting the goalposts to suit your argument.
Wenger seems quite happy not winning, 7 years of it and no change in policy, still selling his best players and never doing enough in the transfer market. Sorry but noone can tell me he's doing everything he can to win as he clearly isn't, on top of that he hails 3rd and 4th place as if we'd won the CL.

A manager who isn't content with what's happening makes changes, he never does.

Players at least do something about it, they move to a club with a much better chance of winning and more focussed on success.

[Letters]

Wenger seems quite happy not winning
Yes, you can see by his reactions on the touchline how happy he is when things aren't going well.
Stop spouting nonsense about that.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Yes, you can see by his reactions on the touchline how happy he is when things aren't going well.
Stop spouting nonsense about that.

piss poor argument.

what were you expecting, wenger to be motionless on the touchline? :lol:

[Letters]

Do you think he looks happy when things aren't going well?
Why is it a piss poor argument to look at his reactions to things rather than making baseless statements?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Wenger never makes changes?

Seriously?

If anything, this club needs stability. The one thing he has not provided.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[GP]

Wenger was going make changes but then he realised he had no change.

[Özim]

Yes, you can see by his reactions on the touchline how happy he is when things aren't going well.
Stop spouting nonsense about that.
Means very little, thats just in the heat of the moment, he does nothing about it when it really matters. If he really cared that much about winning he wouldn't praise the achievement of getting 3rd/4th every season and would at least try and change things to give us a better chance.

Instead he sticks to the same formula every season, noone can honestly say they ever feel we couldn't do better in the transfer market or make changes or adapt to who we are playing.

[Özim]

Wenger never makes changes?

Seriously?

If anything, this club needs stability. The one thing he has not provided.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
In principle no, he doesn't really make the necessary changes for us to move forward, both in terms of tactics, style and personnel.

Most of the personnel changes these days are forced by player departures.

[Letters]

Means very little, thats just in the heat of the moment, he does nothing about it when it really matters.
He's always doing things. I'm not sure they're the right things though.
You can accuse Wenger of many things but not caring and being happy with perennial failure are not two of them.

[LDG]

I hate Wenger. Wenger sucks. He's useless.

[Özim]

He's always doing things. I'm not sure they're the right things though.
You can accuse Wenger of many things but not caring and being happy with perennial failure are not two of them.
I disagree, he's gone 7 years without a trophy now, IMO that calls for a drastic change in policy...he's never shown any inclination to make the changes.

It's easy to say he hates losing etc etc, but what does he actually do to stop the rot other than rant and rave on the sidelines?

[Letters]

I disagree
then you're wrong.

:tiphat:

[LDG]

:lol:

Wenger sucks!

[Kano]

I disagree, he's gone 7 years without a trophy now, IMO that calls for a drastic change in policy...he's never shown any inclination to make the changes.

It's easy to say he hates losing etc etc, but what does he actually do to stop the rot other than rant and rave on the sidelines?

he is blinkered, that is one of his faults, one found in every successful person.

unfortunately for him he remains blinkered regarding the wrong things, so it has hurt him and the clubs progression terribly.

he has made mistakes and will continue as long as he is in charge, however, that does not equate to him not giving a damn.

it just means that he is outdated but from his perspective (and wrongly) he believes he is doing all the right things to change the mistakes. he is stuck in a loop of trying the same things that are no longer good enough but in his mind, he is trying his best.

whether that is good enough or not is open for debate but it is churlish to suggest he doesn't give a toss. actually, it is beyond ridiculous.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Do you think he looks happy when things aren't going well?
Why is it a piss poor argument to look at his reactions to things rather than making baseless statements?

what on earth are you on about? name me one person who is happy when things aren't going well? which player or manager thinks 'we arent playing well but im content'? for that reason its a piss poor argument. every manager, player and fan wants to win so using the antithesis to boost your wenger argument is a cop out. you say it's a baseless argument to state that wenger is content with not winning things but if anything, it's your statement that's baseless. your whole argument is based on wenger's emotion and antics on the touchline/press conferences. you have no quotes, no proof, and no reliable evidence to catalyse your argument. on the other hand, ItsMe is coming to a rational conclusion based on what has happened in the past- he's looking at quotes such as 'we need to improve defensively and add to our squad' and 'if song goes we will add defensively', but sees wenger doing nothing about it. that doesn't tell me he's a manager who thinks we can win trophies because he's identified a deficiency yet not acted upon it. a manager that is hell-bent on winning would improve such frailties.

ItsMe is perfectly right, during the past 7 years wenger has done very little to change the policy in order to stop the ongoing predicament we were in. its only recently that he's had a change of heart and decided to take a new direction, which only came about by default through players giving up on the project. its one thing being unhappy about losing but another doing something about it. the managers that want to win will do so at all costs. not even you can sit here and tell us that we have tried winning at all costs. we could have done much more. in fact, under your argument wenger is shown up as a huge hypocrite; he acknowledges we are not good enough - as evident by his emotions - yet does nothing about it. that's border line insanity. if you had cancer would you sit and cry about it all day then do nothing about it, or would you go to the doctors?

[Power n Glory]

I think this Wengeritis or Arsenalitis disease is affecting even us fans. ARSENAL are a SPORTING enterprise not a cotton bud manufacturer so all this stuff about analogy to corporations and company/client priviledges is absolute guff. Sagna voiced the same concerns that we FANS have been moaning about for years that we are no longer set up to win trophies and people go out of their way to castigate him for it, calling him an average injury plagued player, when in reality he has for 5 seasons been our most CONSISTENT player in his position and has only been seriously injured last season in six years. The basic fact is that this club is NOT set up to win special trophies, hell we cannot even win the tiddlywink ones again. The same rationale that RVP used to leave us is what Sagna has spoken out on, the difference being that the ungrateful dutchman levered his way out while Sagna is not in a position to do so. Sagna too is wondering if he will leave here in 2 years time having been sold a story at 24 about a team going places only to see that 4th place is our self imposed ceiling.

You could argue that Sagna sparked the salvage of last season with his goal against the spuds. I for one believe that without that comeback and win in that game we would be talking about UEFA cup games now now CL. We should not in our frustration simply lash out at any convenient target and should instead refocus on what is the true source of our agony. Wenger and his continued delusions and our club management who thinks winning is a bridge too far and are falling over themselves now to extend Wenger`s contract for maybe another 5 years. Can you imagine another 7 years of this shit.

:gp: Someone talking some sense. A lot of Arsenal fans are blinkered. We're here talking about corporation and customer service…if we're going to use such language than at least apply to Wenger and the amount of times he has insulted us, the customers, the fans, with lies and outright insults. Nobody blinks at that stuff. But it's all nonsense. We've got players voicing the same concerns as the fans and they get throttled for it. It's not just about the money, otherwise, they'd have left ages ago. How many times will we go down this avenue? It's deja vu on here and it's as if people aren't connecting the dots.

[LDG]

Fucksake.

He knows exactly what he is doing, because he is doing the job that the owners of the cluib have asked of him. If he wasn't, he would no longer have a job.

In fact, he's doing a fucking blinding job if you look at it properly. Spends no money, get's champions league. That is fucking genius, and only a few managers could do that.

This is what the board want him to do. Who knows if his role will change, if and when we decide to spend more money (assuming incumbent on new sponsorship deals).

Winning shit, is what Wenger and all players want, but it is second priority on his job spec. It's so fucking clear it's untrue.

Make no mistake, any new manager coming in will be tasked with exactly the same.

We all fucking know we should be more ambitious than we have been. That goes without saying, but this delusional idea that it is all down to Wenger is hysterical and fucking retarded.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Fucksake. Wenger is hysterical and fucking retarded.

Harsh but fair.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[LDG]

Hair.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

Are you drunk?

[Letters]

name me one person who is happy when things aren't going well?
So you agree Wenger wouldn't be happy that we've not been successful then.
Cool :good:

[Özim]

then you're wrong.

:tiphat:
I disagree

[Özim]

he is blinkered, that is one of his faults, one found in every successful person.

unfortunately for him he remains blinkered regarding the wrong things, so it has hurt him and the clubs progression terribly.

he has made mistakes and will continue as long as he is in charge, however, that does not equate to him not giving a damn.

it just means that he is outdated but from his perspective (and wrongly) he believes he is doing all the right things to change the mistakes. he is stuck in a loop of trying the same things that are no longer good enough but in his mind, he is trying his best.

whether that is good enough or not is open for debate but it is churlish to suggest he doesn't give a toss. actually, it is beyond ridiculous.
I'm not saying he doesn't care about winning at all, but what's clear is unlike for the top manager's it's not the be all and end all.

His ideology is more important than winning for him, he won't win at all costs and that's partly why we are where we are. He stubborn like you say and won't change what he thinks is right, even if it's been shown not to work.

IMO that's not something someone desperate to win does.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Are you drunk?

Fucksake its not even noon.

Yes.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Özim]

what on earth are you on about? name me one person who is happy when things aren't going well? which player or manager thinks 'we arent playing well but im content'? for that reason its a piss poor argument. every manager, player and fan wants to win so using the antithesis to boost your wenger argument is a cop out. you say it's a baseless argument to state that wenger is content with not winning things but if anything, it's your statement that's baseless. your whole argument is based on wenger's emotion and antics on the touchline/press conferences. you have no quotes, no proof, and no reliable evidence to catalyse your argument. on the other hand, ItsMe is coming to a rational conclusion based on what has happened in the past- he's looking at quotes such as 'we need to improve defensively and add to our squad' and 'if song goes we will add defensively', but sees wenger doing nothing about it. that doesn't tell me he's a manager who thinks we can win trophies because he's identified a deficiency yet not acted upon it. a manager that is hell-bent on winning would improve such frailties.

ItsMe is perfectly right, during the past 7 years wenger has done very little to change the policy in order to stop the ongoing predicament we were in. its only recently that he's had a change of heart and decided to take a new direction, which only came about by default through players giving up on the project. its one thing being unhappy about losing but another doing something about it. the managers that want to win will do so at all costs. not even you can sit here and tell us that we have tried winning at all costs. we could have done much more. in fact, under your argument wenger is shown up as a huge hypocrite; he acknowledges we are not good enough - as evident by his emotions - yet does nothing about it. that's border line insanity. if you had cancer would you sit and cry about it all day then do nothing about it, or would you go to the doctors?
Brilliant post.

[Özim]

Fucksake.

He knows exactly what he is doing, because he is doing the job that the owners of the cluib have asked of him. If he wasn't, he would no longer have a job.

In fact, he's doing a fucking blinding job if you look at it properly. Spends no money, get's champions league. That is fucking genius, and only a few managers could do that.

This is what the board want him to do. Who knows if his role will change, if and when we decide to spend more money (assuming incumbent on new sponsorship deals).

Winning shit, is what Wenger and all players want, but it is second priority on his job spec. It's so fucking clear it's untrue.

Make no mistake, any new manager coming in will be tasked with exactly the same.

We all fucking know we should be more ambitious than we have been. That goes without saying, but this delusional idea that it is all down to Wenger is hysterical and fucking retarded.
I don't disagree with what you say, but I don't think there's many top managers who would sacrifice winning for finances.

Surely the whole point of being a manager is doing your best and trying to be the best their is at a big club it's about achieving success, if you stuck Ferguson in do you think he'd be happy just coming 3rd or 4th every season with nothing else to show for it? I doubt it very much and I'd think he'd either confront the owners or leave.

Wenger is happy with the current setup, winning isn't the be all and end all for him.

[Letters]

Wiltord's Winner, you completely contradicted yourself. The first half of your first paragraph stated how of course no-one would be happy with not being successful and then you said it's 'baseless' to state that wenger is content with not winning things when you'd just been arguing that no-one would be :lol:

Why hasn't Wenger done more to make us successful?
Maybe he's a stubborn fool, wanting to do things the 'right' way and not throw money around.
Maybe he's looking longer term for the club trying to get the stadium debt cleared as soon as possible.
Maybe the board are restricting him, pressuring him to turn a profit each year.
Is it because he doesn't care? Is it because he's happy with how things are? Behave, you can see he does and to state that's the only possible reason for his policies is laughable.

Footballers are competitive, so are managers (many of whom, Wenger included, are ex-players). Most aren't happy to just collect the salary and not be successful. ItsMe argued that above when talking about Sagna but then argues the exact opposite about Wenger.

ItsMe is also wrong when he says we need a drastic change in policy. We don't. If we'd slumped into mid-table then yes, but actually we've been top 4 every single year, a couple of times flirted with the title and got to the latter stages of cup competitions on several occasions. I fancy us for a top 4 finish again this year. We are not a club in crisis. We don't need drastic changes.

No, Wenger hasn't tried winning at all costs. Had he done that he'd have bankrupted us. Has he done enough? Probably not. Could the only reason for that be because he's happy with a lack of success? No. Is that even a plausible reason? No.

[LDG]

http://www.hdart.co.uk/images/uploads/Alfreton_Special_School_Mural_1.jpg

[Xhaka Can’t]

if you had cancer would you sit and cry about it all day then do nothing about it, or would you go to the doctors?

If it were me, I'd have Wenger kick me in the nuts.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Özim]

So you agree Wenger wouldn't be happy that we've not been successful then.
Cool :good:
Obviously he would have liked to have won stuff, but despite not winning for 7 years he still seems pretty happy and defends/praises the teams achievements.

Can't see Ferguson/Mourinho or any other top manager praising 4th places every season.

[Kano]

I'm not saying he doesn't care about winning at all, but what's clear is unlike for the top manager's it's not the be all and end all.

His ideology is more important than winning for him, he won't win at all costs and that's partly why we are where we are. He stubborn like you say and won't change what he thinks is right, even if it's been shown not to work.

IMO that's not something someone desperate to win does.
it's someone who is completely blinkered.

put it this way, all of us believe we are complete experts about something or other. As time goes on, we’ll get even more stubborn about our knowledge and taking on advice, especially into our 60s.

That is the position wenger is in. He absolutely, truly believes what he is doing is the right thing for the club and in his stubbornness he is not listening or taking on outside help to change that course because he is convinced his way is 100% right.

I can only think of one other manager in his age group that continues to be successful and adapt to new ideas and that is ferguson – who as we know is a complete one off.

Wenger desperately wants to win, even just for the fact of throwing it all back in his critics faces to prove to them how wrong they were. He enjoys his salary and has become lost within the internal money game at the club but his desire to succeed is as high as ever i believe; the problem is he has set himself a course he cannot reverse and one he does not want to.

[LDG]

Wiltord's Winner, you completely contradicted yourself. The first half of your first paragraph stated how of course no-one would be happy with not being successful and then you said it's 'baseless' to state that wenger is content with not winning things when you'd just been arguing that no-one would be :lol:

Why hasn't Wenger done more to make us successful?
Maybe he's a stubborn fool, wanting to do things the 'right' way and not throw money around.
Maybe he's looking longer term for the club trying to get the stadium debt cleared as soon as possible.
Maybe the board are restricting him, pressuring him to turn a profit each year.
Is it because he doesn't care? Is it because he's happy with how things are? Behave, you can see he does and to state that's the only possible reason for his policies is laughable.

Footballers are competitive, so are managers (many of whom, Wenger included, are ex-players). Most aren't happy to just collect the salary and not be successful. ItsMe argued that above when talking about Sagna but then argues the exact opposite about Wenger.

ItsMe is also wrong when he says we need a drastic change in policy. We don't. If we'd slumped into mid-table then yes, but actually we've been top 4 every single year, a couple of times flirted with the title and got to the latter stages of cup competitions on several occasions. I fancy us for a top 4 finish again this year. We are not a club in crisis. We don't need drastic changes.

No, Wenger hasn't tried winning at all costs. Had he done that he'd have bankrupted us. Has he done enough? Probably not. Could the only reason for that be because he's happy with a lack of success? No. Is that even a plausible reason? No.

You idiotic bumbler :sulk:

[Letters]

This is him after we lost 8-2 at Old Trafford

http://www.premiershipticketsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Arsene-Wenger-2.jpg

[Power n Glory]

Fucksake.

He knows exactly what he is doing, because he is doing the job that the owners of the cluib have asked of him. If he wasn't, he would no longer have a job.

In fact, he's doing a fucking blinding job if you look at it properly. Spends no money, get's champions league. That is fucking genius, and only a few managers could do that.

This is what the board want him to do. Who knows if his role will change, if and when we decide to spend more money (assuming incumbent on new sponsorship deals).

Winning shit, is what Wenger and all players want, but it is second priority on his job spec. It's so fucking clear it's untrue.

Make no mistake, any new manager coming in will be tasked with exactly the same.

We all fucking know we should be more ambitious than we have been. That goes without saying, but this delusional idea that it is all down to Wenger is hysterical and fucking retarded.

That argument is retarded because it shouldn't stop him from going for the domestic cups if he knows he can't really challenge for the league. He disregards them every year. The man is content because he gets more money than any of the players and he's already won the league and FA Cup. It's a different story for the Champs League though. He'll field a weak squad for a FA Cup but he'll risk a key players fitness for a Champs League game. He rushed Cesc back for that Barca game and will always go with his strongest possible squad. You can tell he still has a burning passion to go for that one because he's never won it.

The under instructions argument doesn't wash with me. As a sportsman, he should still have a desire to win trophies and really go for glory. It's obvious that he believes in what the Board are doing so he's content. Most managers who disagree with the direction their bosses are heading walk away and find clubs that give them a chance of winning silverware. Managers of smaller clubs often jump ship if a bigger club comes calling and can offer them a bigger budget. Wenger's ambition has to be called into question when you weigh all this up.

[Letters]

I'm not saying he doesn't care about winning at all, but what's clear is unlike for the top manager's it's not the be all and end all.

His ideology is more important than winning for him, he won't win at all costs and that's partly why we are where we are. He stubborn like you say and won't change what he thinks is right, even if it's been shown not to work.

IMO that's not something someone desperate to win does.OK. I agree at that. He has been too stubborn and while he can't ignore the finances, we don't have City's infinite money cheat on and have been hampered by poor commercial deals and the stadium repayments, I agree he errs too much on the side of the finances at the expense of doing more to improve our chances of competing.

[LDG]

http://www.lethalwrestling.com/le/csme/jackass/Retard.jpg

[Marc Overmars]

:haha:

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://www.lethalwrestling.com/le/csme/jackass/Retard.jpg

It's disgusting the way Perry is treated on here.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Syn]

Listening to today's Arsecast right now - they've got a discussion on what defines 'ambition'.

I'm not sure I'm going to make it through the day tbh.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Listening to today's Arsecast right now - they've got a discussion on what defines 'ambition'.

I'm not sure I'm going to make it through the day tbh.

If you had ambition you would.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Power n Glory]

Listening to today's Arsecast right now - they've got a discussion on what defines 'ambition'.

I'm not sure I'm going to make it through the day tbh.

:lol: They're probably reading off some bullshit script sent in by Gazidis and his spin doctor crew.

[LDG]

It's disgusting the way Perry is treated on here.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

:haha: :haha:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

So you agree Wenger wouldn't be happy that we've not been successful then.
Cool :good:

:lol: another cop out response. give give give retreat should really be your tagline.

crawl back into your cave again :haha:

[Syn]

:lol: They're probably reading off some bullshit script sent in by Gazidis and his spin doctor crew.

They've actually been quite critical.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

hang on i see a response further down. didn't see that.

[Letters]

:lol: another cop out response.
I've given you a proper response. You ignored it.
:wave:

[LDG]

:lol: another cop out response. give give give retreat should really be your tagline.

crawl back into your cave again :haha:

I'm sure it's more; Give, give, give, recieve.

In the bumhole.

[Özim]

it's someone who is completely blinkered.

put it this way, all of us believe we are complete experts about something or other. As time goes on, we’ll get even more stubborn about our knowledge and taking on advice, especially into our 60s.

That is the position wenger is in. He absolutely, truly believes what he is doing is the right thing for the club and in his stubbornness he is not listening or taking on outside help to change that course because he is convinced his way is 100% right.

I can only think of one other manager in his age group that continues to be successful and adapt to new ideas and that is ferguson – who as we know is a complete one off.

Wenger desperately wants to win, even just for the fact of throwing it all back in his critics faces to prove to them how wrong they were. He enjoys his salary and has become lost within the internal money game at the club but his desire to succeed is as high as ever i believe; the problem is he has set himself a course he cannot reverse and one he does not want to.
The problem here is that he may believe he's right but the results paint a different picture, belief is one thing but doesn't reality prove it to be incorrect?

I agree he believes he is doing what's right for the club, however if winning was everything to him he wouldn't be content with that, as it is I'm sure he'd love to win but the fact he doesn't isn't a great burden for him.

Again I can see he doesn't want to change things, he's stubborn that's clear, I'm a bit mystified by the notion that you are desperate to win and yet watch your team limp to 3rd/4th place every season, never picking up a domestic or European trophy....maybe he's stuck in his ways and has lost that real hunger for success he once had.

Sticking to the same philosophy which has clearly failed to bring success is strange IMO, I don't know of any other manager that does so so very rigidly for that long.

[Letters]

I don't have a cave btw :shrug:

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'm sure it's more; Give, give, give, recieve.

In the bumhole.

His poo is the girth of a giant redwood.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[LDG]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DgMV2hrDED4/TSpWo0Mzn6I/AAAAAAAAAHo/JZ5tlzE0pUw/s1600/retard_ninja.jpg

[Özim]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DgMV2hrDED4/TSpWo0Mzn6I/AAAAAAAAAHo/JZ5tlzE0pUw/s1600/retard_ninja.jpg
Dude you've really lost some weight since then, well done.

[LDG]

You funny.

[Power n Glory]

They've actually been quite critical.


What's quite critical? What is the definition of 'ambition'? I've lost a little respect for that site.

[Syn]

What's quite critical? What is the definition of 'ambition'? I've lost a little respect for that site.

I meant they were critical that the club were not as 'ambitious' as Gazidis is claiming. And then there was a little bit of semantics chucked in but quite vanilla, quite sensible, nothing heavy. It has been discussed about a gazillion times on here and I haven't read many (if any) good viewpoints. Just a bunch of toys out the pram from both sides about shit they don't know much about.

[LDG]

I meant they were critical that the club were not as 'ambitious' as Gazidis is claiming. And then there was a little bit of semantics chucked in but quite vanilla, quite sensible, nothing heavy. It has been discussed about a gazillion times on here and I haven't read many (if any) good viewpoints. Just a bunch of toys out the pram from both sides about shit they don't know much about.

Are you suggesting that people are spouting utter bollocks on the internet? :o

[McNamara That Ghost...]

If you had ambition you would.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

Wenger was on his way to the ambition bank...

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Wiltord's Winner, you completely contradicted yourself. The first half of your first paragraph stated how of course no-one would be happy with not being successful and then you said it's 'baseless' to state that wenger is content with not winning things when you'd just been arguing that no-one would be :lol:

Why hasn't Wenger done more to make us successful?
Maybe he's a stubborn fool, wanting to do things the 'right' way and not throw money around.
Maybe he's looking longer term for the club trying to get the stadium debt cleared as soon as possible.
Maybe the board are restricting him, pressuring him to turn a profit each year.
Is it because he doesn't care? Is it because he's happy with how things are? Behave, you can see he does and to state that's the only possible reason for his policies is laughable.

Footballers are competitive, so are managers (many of whom, Wenger included, are ex-players). Most aren't happy to just collect the salary and not be successful. ItsMe argued that above when talking about Sagna but then argues the exact opposite about Wenger.

ItsMe is also wrong when he says we need a drastic change in policy. We don't. If we'd slumped into mid-table then yes, but actually we've been top 4 every single year, a couple of times flirted with the title and got to the latter stages of cup competitions on several occasions. I fancy us for a top 4 finish again this year. We are not a club in crisis. We don't need drastic changes.

No, Wenger hasn't tried winning at all costs. Had he done that he'd have bankrupted us. Has he done enough? Probably not. Could the only reason for that be because he's happy with a lack of success? No. Is that even a plausible reason? No.

talk about sitting on the fence. you just about asked every question then covered every answer without committing yourself to much of an opinion. maybe this maybe that, if this and if that. bit of a cop out.

you're first point doesn't make my argument baseless. it's stating the obvious. it's like a catch 22- a manager should not be content with not winning but wenger seems to be. that's stating the truth and if that makes it a hypocritical argument then be it, but dont try and deflect from the original discussion- you're argument was that wenger does not look happy on the touchline so that means he wants to win matches and trophies. that's a poor argument because we are in a industry where every manager should want to do that. waving your arms on the touchline does not somehow magically correlate to a manager trying his best for success. my argument was that just because wenger is showing signs of emotion it doesnt necessarily mean deep down in his hearts of hearts he wants to win trophies, or even that he thinks we can win trophies. as already mentioned, its a catch 22; managers should want to win trophies but wenger seems not to. if he did he'd do something about it especially as he's openly admitted we need some reinforcements. the fact he didn't spend to improve the squad tells any rational fan that he's happy to slide into the top 4 and keep the bank rolling. furthermore, there seems to be no real restriction from the board who have always said they are happy to back him. so the recent responsibility comes down to wenger.

it'll be interesting to see whether wenger signs a new contract or not. it'll show us whether the myth about him being financially restricted is true. if he is financially restricted i find it hard to see him signing a new contract as he wouldn't want to commit his life working under handcuffs, harming his legacy. if he signs a new contract it's a pretty big indication that he isn't restricted. he's been earning 7m a year for the past few seasons, he's hardly going to sign for the money.

[Cripps_orig]

it'll be interesting to see whether wenger signs a new contract or not. it'll show us whether the myth about him being financially restricted is true. if he is financially restricted i find it hard to see him signing a new contract as he wouldn't want to commit his life working under handcuffs, harming his legacy. if he signs a new contract it's a pretty big indication that he isn't restricted. he's been earning 7m a year for the past few seasons, he's hardly going to sign for the money.
This

For all the talk about hes being restricted b the board and he cant do what he wants, doesnt stop him from signing new contracts over the last 7 years.

Wenger sympathizers on here do not really have much to go on

[Letters]

talk about sitting on the fence. you just about asked every question then covered every answer without committing yourself to much of an opinion. maybe this maybe that, if this and if that. bit of a cop out.
It's not a cop out. It's stating the obvious that we don't know what's going on in Wenger's head, we don't really know what's going on in the club.
Wenger doesn't seem to be content with us not winning. You can see in his reactions he's not content. Why he doesn't do more about that? There are plenty of possible reasons. I've suggested a few. The idea that it's because he's happy with how things are going is probably the least plausible. Not just because of his reactions when things aren't going well but also because, as you said yourself:


every manager should want to do that.

Especially a manager who has been used to winning trophies as he has. Are you suggesting that anyone who stays in a job or relationship when things don't seem to be going well is doing so because they're happy in that situation? There's no other possible explanation?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Fucksake.

He knows exactly what he is doing, because he is doing the job that the owners of the cluib have asked of him. If he wasn't, he would no longer have a job.

In fact, he's doing a fucking blinding job if you look at it properly. Spends no money, get's champions league. That is fucking genius, and only a few managers could do that.

This is what the board want him to do. Who knows if his role will change, if and when we decide to spend more money (assuming incumbent on new sponsorship deals).

Winning shit, is what Wenger and all players want, but it is second priority on his job spec. It's so fucking clear it's untrue.

Make no mistake, any new manager coming in will be tasked with exactly the same.

We all fucking know we should be more ambitious than we have been. That goes without saying, but this delusional idea that it is all down to Wenger is hysterical and fucking retarded.

:gp: Top post LDG

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't disagree with what you say, but I don't think there's many top managers who would sacrifice winning for finances.

Surely the whole point of being a manager is doing your best and trying to be the best their is at a big club it's about achieving success, if you stuck Ferguson in do you think he'd be happy just coming 3rd or 4th every season with nothing else to show for it? I doubt it very much and I'd think he'd either confront the owners or leave.

Wenger is happy with the current setup, winning isn't the be all and end all for him.

So your saying Wenger is not the only one who would do this. IMO it depends on the situation your in. Lets ne honest If Wenger was under Roman do you think he would have stayed in his job by now. Infact if he was under Usmanov would he be allowed to do this? Maybe with the way the russian speaks about him

You say he is happy coming 3rd i doubt that just cause he is content with it does not mean he is happy with it.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

It's not a cop out. It's stating the obvious that we don't know what's going on in Wenger's head, we don't really know what's going on in the club.
Wenger doesn't seem to be content with us not winning. You can see in his reactions he's not content. Why he doesn't do more about that? There are plenty of possible reasons. I've suggested a few. The idea that it's because he's happy with how things are going is probably the least plausible. Not just because of his reactions when things aren't going well but also because, as you said yourself:



Especially a manager who has been used to winning trophies as he has. Are you suggesting that anyone who stays in a job or relationship when things don't seem to be going well is doing so because they're happy in that situation? There's no other possible explanation?

it's a cop out. we may not know exactly whats going on at the club but we have a pretty clear indication. asking every possible question then giving every possible answer is not stating the obvious, it's stating what you want to be the obvious.

your whole argument is based on wengers reactions on the touchline and press conferences. you've just alluded to it once again. you've yet to give a meaningful explanation as to why you think wenger wants to win trophies and what evidence suggests he's actively trying to reach those goals, apart from him waving his arms around :lol:

in fact under your argument, wenger falls into 2 categories:

1. insane
2. chronically insane

not only have we won nothing for 7 years but he still doesn't do anything constructive about it. even though as you say, he shows plenty of 'emotion on the touchline' so is clearly aware of the problems. in fact, he does the complete opposite by selling our best players every year! thats madness, pure WUMmery! he's happy to constantly sell our best players, not add sufficient depth and rebuild every 2 years. this goes against the perceived winning mentality in the modern football industry. there's another prize monsieur can claim.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If I'm not happy in my job - I move on.

If Sagna aint happy - he should cut the crap and put in a transfer request - from the treatment table.


This. Why has Sagna not handed one if if he is so "unhappy" If he is not then he needs to stfu till he leaves the club.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

This

For all the talk about hes being restricted b the board and he cant do what he wants, doesnt stop him from signing new contracts over the last 7 years.

Wenger sympathizers on here do not really have much to go on


WTF has signing a contract have to do with being given money to spend on players ? of course the decsion to sign a contract would rest with him like any person in a job.

[Letters]

you've yet to give a meaningful explanation as to why you think wenger wants to win trophies.
I don't need to. You yourself said that every manager wants to be successful. I agree. That is obvious.
So if you believe that Wenger doesn't (contrary to your own assertion that every manager does) then the burden of proof is on you to show that, not me.

Why isn't he doing more about it? I don't know. As I said I've suggested some thoughts but none of us really know. It's not a cop-out to say that, it's obviously true. But it's obviously not because he's happy about not winning trophies for so long.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

it's a cop out. we may not know exactly whats going on at the club but we have a pretty clear indication. asking every possible question then giving every possible answer is not stating the obvious, it's stating what you want to be the obvious.

your whole argument is based on wengers reactions on the touchline and press conferences. you've just alluded to it once again. you've yet to give a meaningful explanation as to why you think wenger wants to win trophies and what evidence suggests he's actively trying to reach those goals, apart from him waving his arms around :lol:

in fact under your argument, wenger falls into 2 categories:

1. insane
2. chronically insane

not only have we won nothing for 7 years but he still doesn't do anything constructive about it. even though as you say, he shows plenty of 'emotion on the touchline' so is clearly aware of the problems. in fact, he does the complete opposite by selling our best players every year! thats madness, pure WUMmery! he's happy to constantly sell our best players, not add sufficient depth and rebuild every 2 years. this goes against the perceived winning mentality in the modern football industry. there's another prize monsieur can claim.

Yep i saw the look of joy in his face when we lost the carling cup happiest man in the stadium he was.

Still Wenger out tbh.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I disagree, he's gone 7 years without a trophy now, IMO that calls for a drastic change in policy...he's never shown any inclination to make the changes.

It's easy to say he hates losing etc etc, but what does he actually do to stop the rot other than rant and rave on the sidelines?

in the last 12 months there has been, he kicked project youth out, and brought in project buy experienced good players. thats a pretty drastic change

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

I don't need to. You yourself said that every manager wants to be successful. I agree. That is obvious.
So if you believe that Wenger doesn't (contrary to your own assertion that every manager does) then the burden of proof is on you to show that, not me.

Why isn't he doing more about it? I don't know. As I said I've suggested some thoughts but none of us really know. It's not a cop-out to say that, it's obviously true. But it's obviously not because he's happy about not winning trophies for so long.

:lol: ultimate cop out.

you're whole argument is based upon wenger throwing his arms in the air on the touchline. ive asked you on countless times to provide substantial evidence to back it up but zilch. you keep referring back to his emotions. in this modern age emotion is nothing unless its backed up by action.

the thing you and wenger have in common is this incredible ability to say something but never prove it.

crawl back into your cave, like i knew you would after a while.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Hey Letters!

You're an asshole!!

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Letters]

Hey Letters!

You're an asshole!!I'll just get back in my cave, shall I?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Letters :rose:

[Letters]

Letters :rose:
I had a good run.


Me :rose:

[GP]

I had a good run.


Me :rose:

Provide substantial evidence of that :angry:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I had a good run.


Me :rose:

It's a cop out. we may not know exactly whats going on at GW but we have a pretty clear indication.

[Syn]

Letters - will your cave get Internet access?

[Syn]

Is it a one-bedroom cave or two? Ive heard the central heating is terrible but the fireplace is quite cosy.

[Syn]

Is it true your cave has a plasma screen but it only shows the Rocky films on loop?

[Syn]

Letters, is it true your favourite genre of music is classic rock?

[Syn]

Fuck me, I've had a meltdown.

[Letters]

Yes. No. Yes. Maybe.

[Letters]

Fuck me, I've had a meltdown.
It's because you're so happy with our lack of success. Like Wenger.

[Cripps_orig]

WTF has signing a contract have to do with being given money to spend on players ? of course the decsion to sign a contract would rest with him like any person in a job.

Wtf are you talking about now?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wtf are you talking about now?

:doh:

[Letters]

Wenger after our Carling Cup Final defeat:

http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/images/aug_09/gun__1250257575_wenger15082009.jpg

Look how happy he is, the bastard :fury:

[Cripps_orig]

:doh:

Let me explain my original post which everyone on here unless they are called Charlie or are stupid would have got

If Arsene was unhappy with how the board has restricted him as many on here claim then he wouldnt have signed new contracts over the years.

He has signed them however therefore proving he is perfectly happy with us being a bit shit as long as he gets his money.

Understand now, dumbass?

[Cripps_orig]

Wenger after our Carling Cup Final defeat:

http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/images/aug_09/gun__1250257575_wenger15082009.jpg

Look how happy he is, the bastard :fury:
Hes the one person who can do something about our shitness. He doesnt. Explain that

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Let me explain my original post which everyone on here unless they are called Charlie or are stupid would have got

If Arsene was unhappy with how the board has restricted him as many on here claim then he wouldnt have signed new contracts over the years.

He has signed them however therefore proving he is perfectly happy with us being a bit shit as long as he gets his money.

Understand now, dumbass?


For all the talk about hes being restricted b the board and he cant do what he wants, doesnt stop him from signing new contracts over the last 7 years.


well if he is not being Restricted by the board, then it means he is given money by the board etc. so once again i ask what does that have to do with him signing 2 deals in 7 years.

Maybe you should have made your 1st point more clear then.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wenger after our Carling Cup Final defeat:

http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/images/aug_09/gun__1250257575_wenger15082009.jpg

Look how happy he is, the bastard :fury:

:gp:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Hes the one person who can do something about our shitness. He doesnt. Explain that

Yet you still pay money towards this shitness :haha:

[Cripps_orig]

well if he is not being Restricted by the board, then it means he is given money by the board etc. so once again i ask what does that have to do with him signing 2 deals in 7 years.

Maybe you should have made your 1st point more clear then.
:doh:

[Letters]

Hes the one person who can do something about our shitness. He doesnt. Explain that
It's because he's so happy with our lack of success. He just couldn't be happier. Why would he want anything to change?

[Cripps_orig]

Yet you still pay money towards this shitness :haha:
I'm an Arsenal fan. Through thick and thin.

I stand by the club unlike people like yourself who are more than happy to support other clubs

Barca? :haha:

[Letters]

Full-blown meltdown mode :console:

Ach :rose:

[Cripps_orig]

It's because he's so happy with our lack of success. He just couldn't be happier. Why would he want anything to change?

Wouldnt say hes happy but its clear hes taken the "i still get paid £7m a year regardless so fuck the team" stance

[Joker]

He does care when we lose cup finals, are out of the race for the Premier League etc, but it's not something that IMO he worries about for too long. Now, if we failed to qualify for the UCL, that would affect him greatly. At the start of every season, he always starts by talking about how 4th place is like a trophy, the financial benefits of qualifying for the UCL, and only after making this point does he say "oh, but that's not the only objective, we want to win trophies also".

If Wenger really really cared about trophies, he wouldn't have rested first team players for the Carling Cup final against Chelsea in 06-07, the Carling Cup semi final against the Spuds 07-08, the FA Cup semi final against Chelsea 08-09, and the numerous FA Cup exits we've had against sides like Blackburn, Stoke, etc where we played B teams. A manager who cared about trophies more than about 4th place would have put out stronger sides to signal his intention of winning these competitions. Of course he was not happy we were knocked out, but they are clearly very low down on his list of priorities. The pro-Wenger fans are misrepresenting the argument being made.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I'm an Arsenal fan. Through thick and thin.

I stand by the club unlike people like yourself who are more than happy to support other clubs

Barca? :haha:

Im not happy with the way the club us run, and once i am i'll go to games again. does not make me less of a fan.

[Syn]

Cripps, he's done you again. I didn't expect a meltdown so soon after mine.

You need to take some time off and regroup, come back with some new tactics because at the moment it's one way traffic.

[Letters]

Cripps, he's done you again. I didn't expect a meltdown so soon after mine.

You need to take some time off and regroup, come back with some new tactics because at the moment it's one way traffic.
I'd 8-2 to be Ach right now...

[Syn]

He does care when we lose cup finals, are out of the race for the Premier League etc, but it's not something that IMO he worries about for too long. Now, if we failed to qualify for the UCL, that would affect him greatly. At the start of every season, he always starts by talking about how 4th place is like a trophy, the financial benefits of qualifying for the UCL, and only after making this point does he say "oh, but that's not the only objective, we want to win trophies also".

If Wenger really really cared about trophies, he wouldn't have rested first team players for the Carling Cup final against Chelsea in 06-07, the Carling Cup semi final against the Spuds 07-08, the FA Cup semi final against Chelsea 08-09, and the numerous FA Cup exits we've had against sides like Blackburn, Stoke, etc where we played B teams. A manager who cared about trophies more than about 4th place would have put out stronger sides to signal his intention of winning these competitions. Of course he was not happy we were knocked out, but they are clearly very low down on his list of priorities. The pro-Wenger fans are misrepresenting the argument being made.

No doubt 06-07 carling cup final was downplayed but after that he has gone for them. For the examples you're listing, it's not that he didn't rate the competition but he overrated our chances of getting tr bigger prize like the CL in 08-09 or the league. The 10-11 Carling Cup final is a perfect example of him taking the cup competitions seriously when bigger prizes are not on offer.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

he always starts by talking about how 4th place is like a trophy, the financial benefits of qualifying for the UCL, and only after making this point does he say "oh, but that's not the only objective, we want to win trophies also".

If Wenger really really cared about trophies, he wouldn't have rested first team players for the Carling Cup final against Chelsea in 06-07, the Carling Cup semi final against the Spuds 07-08, the FA Cup semi final against Chelsea 08-09, and the numerous FA Cup exits we've had against sides like Blackburn, Stoke, etc where we played B teams. A manager who cared about trophies more than about 4th place would have put out stronger sides to signal his intention of winning these competitions. Of course he was not happy we were knocked out, but they are clearly very low down on his list of priorities. The pro-Wenger fans are misrepresenting the argument being made.

Never one heard him say this season 4th place was the target or its a trophy infact don't think he said it at the begining of last season either.



If Wenger really really cared about trophies, he wouldn't have rested first team players for the Carling Cup final against Chelsea in 06-07, the Carling Cup semi final against the Spuds 07-08, the FA Cup semi final against Chelsea 08-09, and the numerous FA Cup exits we've had against sides like Blackburn, Stoke, etc where we played B teams.

He Does care about cups but like mosts Gooners The CC and fa cup did were not the ones they wanted to win. its only now we have not one a trophy fans are moaning we should be going for the CC when a few years ago it was the mickey mouse cup for teams like everton.


A manager who cared about trophies more than about 4th place would have put out stronger sides to signal his intention of winning these competitions. Of course he was not happy we were knocked out, but they are clearly very low down on his list of priorities.

You mean like fergie did against place last season in the CC.

[Joker]

Never one heard him say this season 4th place was the target or its a trophy infact don't think he said it at the begining of last season either.

He Does care about cups but like mosts Gooners The CC and fa cup did were not the ones they wanted to win. its only now we have not one a trophy fans are moaning we should be going for the CC when a few years ago it was the mickey mouse cup for teams like everton.

You mean like fergie did against place last season in the CC.

1) He has said 4th place was like a trophy: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/feb/19/arsene-wenger-arsenal-fourth-place

2) At the start of the season they're lower down in the list of priorities, but once you've got to the semis/finals, you shouldn't be resting players. I know Syn says we didn't really do that after the CC final loss to Chelsea, but I remember that the Carling Cup semi final against Tottenham had a fair number of second teamers playing, and in the FA Cup against Chelsea, he inexplicably decided to rest Arshavin who was on top form at the time.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

1) He has said 4th place was like a trophy: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/feb/19/arsene-wenger-arsenal-fourth-place

2) At the start of the season they're lower down in the list of priorities, but once you've got to the semis/finals, you shouldn't be resting players. I know Syn says we didn't really do that after the CC final loss to Chelsea, but I remember that the Carling Cup semi final against Tottenham had a fair number of second teamers playing, and in the FA Cup against Chelsea, he inexplicably decided to rest Arshavin who was on top form at the time.

1) Sunday 19 February 2012 22.05 GMT is when he said it, that was porbs after we were out of everything and he always says it then.

2) Yeah he should pay better team in semi finals but i guess its who you play against. We played the best possible team against brum and we still lost.

[Syn]

I know Syn says we didn't really do that after the CC final loss to Chelsea, but I remember that the Carling Cup semi final against Tottenham had a fair number of second teamers playing, and in the FA Cup against Chelsea, he inexplicably decided to rest Arshavin who was on top form at the time.

Because, as I say, at that time, he still fancied our chances at the bigger competitions and went all out for them. In any case, it's a very out-dated argument. To say he doesn't care about domestic cup competitions now is rubbish because as we saw in 10-11, even though we were in other competitions, he did go for the CC but we couldn't beat Birmingham.

[Niall_Quinn]

GB and Syn are the ONLY people making any fucking sense in this thread! So everyone else shut up please!

All you need to know is the previous shareholders invested nothing and banked half a billion. Stan has invested half a billion and will bank a two hundred million profit when he sells to the dirty gangster. Then we'll see what happens. Wenger is by far the best manager in the world if you want to keep extracting money but still get a moderate return on the pitch. Nobody else I can think of could do it at the same level. As for the players and their agents, they can see all this shit going on and they want their cut. I guess they figure there'd be no cover for the shareholders if the football suddenly stopped. So they view themselves as necessary, at least for the time being.

If you aren't 100% cynical about what's going on in modern football then slap, slap, wake up!

[LDG]

Let me explain my original post which everyone on here unless they are called Charlie or are stupid would have got

If Arsene was unhappy with how the board has restricted him as many on here claim then he wouldnt have signed new contracts over the years.

He has signed them however therefore proving he is perfectly happy with us being a bit shit as long as he gets his money.

Understand now, dumbass?

:haha:

Chaz got to you :lol:

Chaz :bow:

Mental Friday :bow:

Retards :bow:

Letters Batcave :bow:

Perry :bow:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Charlie kicked his ass.

NBN, not so much.

[gooners]

wenger: you cannot call yourself a top club and then sell your top players.

what happens next? -- those players are sold within the same breath;he then goes and loan a player from one of the clubs he claims are destroying the game; player sales is repeated again


Fans' response: wenger was just saying that; he is being restricted; he wants to win but he can't compete with city and chelsea;he didn't have the choice; those players have betrayed him -- they are disloyal greedy c unts; we got more than those players are worth anyway -- one season wonders; AW should have done more to make us win but he has done well considerin the SELF-IMPOSED morally-superior restrictions he is working under; no manager can do what he is doing. There is no better alternative --- we can't imagine what will happen when he finally calls it quits. You are a spurs fan for not seeing all of this; we are doing things the right way :good: (oh, and fuck sagna for saying what wenger already said; weasely c unt.)



fan-aticism :bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

wenger: you cannot call yourself a top club and then sell your top players.

what happens next? -- those players are sold within the same breath;he then goes and loan a player from one of the clubs he claims are destroying the game; player sales is repeated again


Fans' response: wenger was just saying that; he is being restricted; he wants to win but he can't compete with city and chelsea;he didn't have the choice; those players have betrayed him -- they are disloyal greedy c unts; we got more than those players are worth anyway -- one season wonders; AW should have done more to make us win but he has done well considerin the SELF-IMPOSED morally-superior restrictions he is working under; no manager can do what he is doing. There is no better alternative --- we can't imagine what will happen when he finally calls it quits. You are a spurs fan for not seeing all of this; we are doing things the right way :good:



fan-aticism :bow:

We didn't sell our top players. We sold our top, top, top players. Unfortunately our top players are still here, we can't get rid of them.

[Niall_Quinn]

they are disloyal greedy c unts

True enough.

Ask the player if he'll take the average working wage plus a GUARANTEE he'll win something EVERY YEAR. Which comes first? Which is foremost? Football's a job, and a lucrative one at that. Le Tissier retired a long time ago. Why do the players keep going on about medals and cups? Because they know that's what the FANS want - not them, they are after the money but all this BS talk of trophies makes them sound respectable. It's all about the money and the trophies are the icing on the cake, but don't ever confuse that icing for the cake itself. You could say their greed for the ideal arrangement knows no limit. Are they disloyal? Actually probably not - because you have to have some concept of loyalty in the first place to be knowingly disloyal. Seems to me it's a huge mistake to assume the players who come from one world want the same things as the fans, who come from the real world.

Anyway, the Olympics was highly useful in that it lifted quite a few big rocks. You can tell the impact it's had by reading that shit Oliver Holt and his mates. The credibility of football is declining as fast as the money is pouring in. It's very tolerant of some fans to feel such sympathy for the trophy hunting millionaire children but I'm not sure they need or even register the support.

[Dennis Bendtner]

All this bullshit and no one's corrected the thread title. I assumed Sangakkara had died.

Letters :rose:

[Cripps_orig]

All this bullshit and no one's corrected the thread title. I assumed Sangakkara had died.

Letters :rose:

Letters is Sangakarra?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Charlie kicked his ass.

NBN, not so much.

Well i don't like to brag :coffee:

[Cripps_orig]

Well i don't like to brag :coffee:

GW :rose:

[Marc Overmars]

True enough.

Ask the player if he'll take the average working wage plus a GUARANTEE he'll win something EVERY YEAR. Which comes first? Which is foremost? Football's a job, and a lucrative one at that. Le Tissier retired a long time ago. Why do the players keep going on about medals and cups? Because they know that's what the FANS want - not them, they are after the money but all this BS talk of trophies makes them sound respectable.

Not sure I agree with that. They're still professional and competitive sportsmen, if they didn't want to win they wouldn't be doing what they do and that goes for every sport. It's true that footballers are mercenaries but it's the nature of the sport itself that has turned them this way. I don't think it's a case of one or the other, more that both go hand in hand now.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

GW :rose:

Well we know how shite Goonersworld is whats your point :coffee:

[Cripps_orig]

Oh dear

GW :rose: indeed

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Guys, debate. Not Arsenal be dicks.

[Kano]

Not sure I agree with that. They're still professional and competitive sportsmen, if they didn't want to win they wouldn't be doing what they do and that goes for every sport. It's true that footballers are mercenaries but it's the nature of the sport itself that has turned them this way. I don't think it's a case of one or the other, more that both go hand in hand now.
the desire to win is at the very heart of any competitive sport, either to win the point, the tackle, that sprint, its inherent to us as people in every way. in the football world i'm not sure what comes first for most players anymore, whether it is the lure of financial reward or the glitter of a medal that means more. players want to win and claim everything that comes with that - which isn't just money or cups - but it is hard to understand what is more important for them.

[Niall_Quinn]

Not sure I agree with that. They're still professional and competitive sportsmen, if they didn't want to win they wouldn't be doing what they do and that goes for every sport. It's true that footballers are mercenaries but it's the nature of the sport itself that has turned them this way. I don't think it's a case of one or the other, more that both go hand in hand now.

Competitive maybe. Professional sportsmen? No way. Genuine sportsmen don't cheat, they don't claim penalties and free kicks when they know bloody well they weren't touched. They don't hold their face when they get tapped on the knee. They don't try to get their opponents disqualified. Usain Bolt is a sportsman. Ben Johnson wasn't, he was a lousy cheat. Same as modern footballers. Win at all costs including violation of the rules is not sportsmanship. Give 100% and win within the rules, that's proper sport. And shake your opponent's hand at the end, win, lose or draw. The Ferdinand bitches, Terry and Cole - professional? Can't see it. And what I'm saying is if they have no respect for the game when they are on the pitch then I don't give much credence to what they claim when the are off it. What I see with this lot is they are always hanging around the manager's door looking for a pay rise when all they really do each week is bring the game into disrepute. And so I wonder how much they actually love the game and how much by comparison they love the cash. Their actions speak pretty loud, a few exceptions notwithstanding.

Anyway, regarding Sagna. My attitude is fuck him, if he wants to stay, fuck him. If he wants to go, fuck him.

[V-Pig]

Guys, debate. Not Arsenal be dicks.

To find your porn name, simply aggravate Maccy and look at the last 3 words of what he says in response.

Hi, I'm Arsenal B. Dicks. But you can call me ARSE. Or DICKS.

I'm 9.2inches and have HIV. What.

[Boss]

Quite a few shockers over the last ten pages.

[Power n Glory]

Competitive maybe. Professional sportsmen? No way. Genuine sportsmen don't cheat, they don't claim penalties and free kicks when they know bloody well they weren't touched. They don't hold their face when they get tapped on the knee. They don't try to get their opponents disqualified. Usain Bolt is a sportsman. Ben Johnson wasn't, he was a lousy cheat. Same as modern footballers. Win at all costs including violation of the rules is not sportsmanship. Give 100% and win within the rules, that's proper sport. And shake your opponent's hand at the end, win, lose or draw. The Ferdinand bitches, Terry and Cole - professional? Can't see it. And what I'm saying is if they have no respect for the game when they are on the pitch then I don't give much credence to what they claim when the are off it. What I see with this lot is they are always hanging around the manager's door looking for a pay rise when all they really do each week is bring the game into disrepute. And so I wonder how much they actually love the game and how much by comparison they love the cash. Their actions speak pretty loud, a few exceptions notwithstanding.

Anyway, regarding Sagna. My attitude is fuck him, if he wants to stay, fuck him. If he wants to go, fuck him.

If all that is true now, then it was true during the Invincible era. Our current state is clouding your judgement.

[Niall_Quinn]

If all that is true now, then it was true during the Invincible era. Our current state is clouding your judgement.

Realisation is refining my judgement.

[Niall_Quinn]

Time for the fans to change their game. It's the fans that have been left behind in this glorious advancement. If football is to be a corporate event then we should demand refunds for a loss. Claim depreciation on the "assets" being retained and work out a percentage cut on asset disposal. And so forth. The modern game needs modern fans. Or strike a deal that offsets this compensation based on entertainment, which right now is absent. Open up the one way street for oncoming traffic.