Have we learnt anything from the ManYoo game?

[Letters]

I don't think so.

There was the predictable hand-wringing and wailing in the match thread as there always is even though before the game we were pretty much unanimous in thinking this was a nailed on certainty for a defeat.

Having been on this board some time I guess I shouldn't be surprised by such reactions but I think we all accept (although are not happy that) we're not serious competitors to the top 3 any more.

So...did we learn anything new from the game and result?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We have not learnt anything we don't already know. The result was good and bad i thought, Bad in the sense that its always bad to loose to them. Good in away, that it was not a humilation like last time.

The scoreline flattered us, but it is what it is. Whether it could have been 5-1, 6-1 etc, its irrelevant.

[Bergkampwonderland10]

I don't think so.

There was the predictable hand-wringing and wailing in the match thread as there always is even though before the game we were pretty much unanimous in thinking this was a nailed on certainty for a defeat.


Having been on this board some time I guess I shouldn't be surprised by such reactions but I think we all accept (although are not happy that) we're not serious competitors to the top 3 any more.

So...did we learn anything new from the game and result?

I learnt a few things, though maybe it's not all 'new'.
1) Santos is possibly the worst left back we've ever had
2) Santos asking for Van Persie's shirt pretty much showed how our team think.
3) Wenger hugging Van Persie at half time - showed he's only interested in personal achievements...ie, look at what a great manager I am at making a world class player and then selling him.
4) Vermaelen and Koscielny have both decided to turn into jelly at the same time
5) Mertesacker is a beast for us which I never expected to be fair -even though I always rated him, wasn't sure he'd cope with he prem pace, but has proved me wrong so far- best reader of the game
6) There was no point in buying a CF like Giroud if no one gives him anything to go on
7) There is no point in going back to tippy tappy football ala Fabregas - going no where fast - it's just so boring now
8) I preferred watching Swansea yesterday - thought their brand of football is 100x better than ours right now.
9) Unless something drastic happens soon - I think Wenger needs to consider his future...particularly if we fail to hold on to Walcott
10) Gazidis needs to get a new job - maybe in property - oh wait, that's what he spends his time doing anyways...sells highbury square flats.
11) I am less angry at Van Persie after yesterday - not because he didn't celebrate, but when Santos asked for his shirt - it really did show the direction of our club - and he was spot on.

[Özim]

Some people have re-learnt that we can't defend (they'd forgotten for about 3 games).

I learnt that some people will never learn.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I learnt a few things, though maybe it's not all 'new'.
1) Santos is possibly the worst left back we've ever had
2) Santos asking for Van Persie's shirt pretty much showed how our team think.
3) Wenger hugging Van Persie at half time - showed he's only interested in personal achievements...ie, look at what a great manager I am at making a world class player and then selling him.
4) Vermaelen and Koscielny have both decided to turn into jelly at the same time
5) Mertesacker is a beast for us which I never expected to be fair -even though I always rated him, wasn't sure he'd cope with he prem pace, but has proved me wrong so far- best reader of the game
6) There was no point in buying a CF like Giroud if no one gives him anything to go on
7) There is no point in going back to tippy tappy football ala Fabregas - going no where fast - it's just so boring now
8) I preferred watching Swansea yesterday - thought their brand of football is 100x better than ours right now.
9) Unless something drastic happens soon - I think Wenger needs to consider his future...particularly if we fail to hold on to Walcott
10) Gazidis needs to get a new job - maybe in property - oh wait, that's what he spends his time doing anyways...sells highbury square flats.
11) I am less angry at Van Persie after yesterday - not because he didn't celebrate, but when Santos asked for his shirt - it really did show the direction of our club - and he was spot on.

That Santo's think was weird he could of waited till after the game. Maybe he wanted to wipe his ass, at HT.

[Özim]

He did it at half time to draw attention to it.

Now people will know he's got the real legend RVP's shirt in 10 years time as this will go down in football folklore and thus it will be worth an absolute packet!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Mertesacker is a beast for us which I never expected to be fair -even though I always rated him, wasn't sure he'd cope with he prem pace, but has proved me wrong so far- best reader of the game

Pretty much, he is awesome. Sagna was a beast too. Showed why he is the best RB in the world.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He did it at half time to draw attention to it.

Now people will know he's got the real legend RVP's shirt in 10 years time as this will go down in football folklore and thus it will be worth an absolute packet!

Only exctiting thing he has done all season, well except crashing his car.

[Syn]

Nothing new on the football side, but it was interesting seeing all out players hugging and shaking hands in the tunnel with Van Persie (Arteta, Wilshere and Vermaelen - the captain candidates - being the worst of the bunch). It wasn't on sky but there was a vid posted on YouTube from someone in the tunnel. It shows how out of touch the players are with the fans. I don't even hate Van Persie but considering most gooners do, the players should've been more aware of that. No need for handbags but equally no need for that shit. But they're just following the manager's lead, I guess. Makes you question why you give more of a shit than them.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Nothing new on the football side, but it was interesting seeing all out players hugging and shaking hands in the tunnel with Van Persie (Arteta, Wilshere and Vermaelen - the captain candidates - being the worst of the bunch). It wasn't on sky but there was a vid posted on YouTube from someone in the tunnel. It shows how out of touch the players are with the fans. I don't even hate Van Persie but considering most gooners do, the players should've been more aware of that. No need for handbags but equally no need for that shit. But they're just following the manager's lead, I guess. Makes you question why you give more of a shit than them.

Yeah but RVP was their mate, why should they hate him, cause the club could not match his ambition. TV5 was gutted when he left, he has never insulted him to this day. Like you say players are diffrent to fans. Even if they did not shake hands, they have probs gone out with him for a drink later on anyways.

If Wenger and his team blank RVP, the media says they are bitter.

[Niall_Quinn]

We learned some of us have been unfair to Chamakh. Criticised as the worst player of all time it's now clear he's only the second worst. Santos is, of course, the very worst player in the history of football. Another thing yesterday taught us is that Santos should be kicked out of this club at the earliest opportunity. Certainly he should never play for us again.

Suspect well see him in Germany this week then. It's a fucking scandal. And to think there was a time when we thought Clichy wasn't good enough. Just look how far we've collapsed since the days of Ashley Cole and Nigel Winterburn.

We also learned its never to soon to take a hit out on **** yanks who come over here to pillage our footie clubs.

[Ernesto]

We, as fans, have learnt a lot.

Whether the board, manager and team have learnt anything is a different matter altogether.

Couple of things to take away from the game yesterday, van Persie was very gracious to all things Arsenal post-match, which was commendable. Even complimented the fans, in spite of some sick chants emanating from the away end. That post-match interview perhaps would've taken a whole different complexion has Arsenal taken a positive result away from Old Swamp, but it was refreshing to hear his thoughts nevertheless.

Also, and more importantly, if Manchester United are clearly a side who pride themselves on dispossessing the opposition, and panic without the ball, and we are one of the best (if not the best) "ball-keepers" in the league, then why are we losing such games? We do well against Manchester City, who are a better side, yet we're faced with crap like yesterday against an inferior side. Doesn't make an iota of sense.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We learned some of us have been unfair to Chamakh. Criticised as the worst player of all time it's now clear he's only the second worst. Santos is, of course, the very worst player in the history of football. Another thing yesterday taught us is that Santos should be kicked out of this club at the earliest opportunity. Certainly he should never play for us again.

Suspect well see him in Germany this week then. It's a fucking scandal. And to think there was a time when we thought Clichy wasn't good enough. Just look how far we've collapsed since the days of Ashley Cole and Nigel Winterburn.

We also learned its never to soon to take a hit out on **** yanks who come over here to pillage our footie clubs.

Problen with Santo's he is better of in LM not LB and never has been. He has pace and power to break into the box, he is just not a good defender like most Brazilians.

[Niall_Quinn]

Problen with Santo's he is better of in LM not LB and never has been. He has pace and power to break into the box, he is just not a good defender like most Brazilians.

Yep, true, plus he's a complete **** who should be kicked out of the club after his last batch of performances.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yep, true, plus he's a complete **** who should be kicked out of the club after his last batch of performances.

I agree.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We, as fans, have learnt a lot.

Whether the board, manager and team have learnt anything is a different matter altogether.

Couple of things to take away from the game yesterday, van Persie was very gracious to all things Arsenal post-match, which was commendable. Even complimented the fans, in spite of some sick chants emanating from the away end. That post-match interview perhaps would've taken a whole different complexion has Arsenal taken a positive result away from Old Swamp, but it was refreshing to hear his thoughts nevertheless.

Also, and more importantly, if Manchester United are clearly a side who pride themselves on dispossessing the opposition, and panic without the ball, and we are one of the best (if not the best) "ball-keepers" in the league, then why are we losing such games? We do well against Manchester City, who are a better side, yet we're faced with crap like yesterday against an inferior side. Doesn't make an iota of sense.

Fergie will always know how to beat us were so predictable. City, Think its fair to say there is so much pressure on them to defend the title that mistakes are creeping in.

And i think at City, we had a stronger line up bar Gev. Once that line up goes, were fucked. Had we had Gibbs, Fit Diaby, maybe ox, then yesterday becomes a diffrent game.

Fit Diaby, does well for us in midfield. Gibbs won't do a santo's and Ox gives us something diffrent on the wing.

[Cripps_orig]

Didnt learn anything we didnt know before the game

We all knew we'd lose. We did

We all knew we'd be outplayed. We were

We all knew we'd have some possession and do f all with it. We did

It was a horrific starting line up. More down to the inclusion of 2 players than the actual team and that wasnt helped by our captain doing a Kos impression 3 minutes in.

We all knew 4-3-3 has been an utter failure

For once, i would love to watch an Arsenal game where we see something different in terms of formation and tactics

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah, I learnt we were even more spineless than I thought we were.

I was hoping for a surprise because the feeling was almost unanimous that we wouldn't turn up, so maybe just this one time we'd prove the doubters wrong.

Of course everything went according to the script and United picked up their routine 3 points against us, which even left their manager disappointed because he didn't batter us. Shows how little they think of us now.

[Cripps_orig]

I read the Manc post match interviews and Fergie and Rio both saying how it all felt a little flat.

They see us as nothing more than a Stoke or a Charlton these days and so they should

[jelgoon]

Yeh right. Best right back at the club maybe.Mertersacker is ok - nothing that specail as you will see in the CL when he gets torn apart by classy forwards
Pretty much, he is awesome. Sagna was a beast too. Showed why he is the best RB in the world.

[jelgoon]

You are still going on about a fit Diaby. Its sounds a bit silly now to be honest.
Fergie will always know how to beat us were so predictable. City, Think its fair to say there is so much pressure on them to defend the title that mistakes are creeping in.

And i think at City, we had a stronger line up bar Gev. Once that line up goes, were fucked. Had we had Gibbs, Fit Diaby, maybe ox, then yesterday becomes a diffrent game.

Fit Diaby, does well for us in midfield. Gibbs won't do a santo's and Ox gives us something diffrent on the wing.

[Kano]

I don't think so.

There was the predictable hand-wringing and wailing in the match thread as there always is even though before the game we were pretty much unanimous in thinking this was a nailed on certainty for a defeat.

Having been on this board some time I guess I shouldn't be surprised by such reactions but I think we all accept (although are not happy that) we're not serious competitors to the top 3 any more.

So...did we learn anything new from the game and result?
yes, it confirmed that we are not top four material.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You are still going on about a fit Diaby. Its sounds a bit silly now to be honest.

Hence the word Fit Diaby. I know he is mostly Injured, but him fit is the best midfilder we have and kills Ramsey.

[jelgoon]

Its irrelevant whether the players shook hands with RVP or not. It had no impact on the game whatsoever.As an Arsenal fan I just want to win matches and win a fucking competition of some kind once in a while. I dont give a shit which players likes and dislikes RVP
Nothing new on the football side, but it was interesting seeing all out players hugging and shaking hands in the tunnel with Van Persie (Arteta, Wilshere and Vermaelen - the captain candidates - being the worst of the bunch). It wasn't on sky but there was a vid posted on YouTube from someone in the tunnel. It shows how out of touch the players are with the fans. I don't even hate Van Persie but considering most gooners do, the players should've been more aware of that. No need for handbags but equally no need for that shit. But they're just following the manager's lead, I guess. Makes you question why you give more of a shit than them.

[Kano]

all players at different clubs would do the same - very few players at any club express the sentiments of the supporters and I guess why should they? its such a global game and if its not them its their mate in the gossip columns every other day, so it just becomes part of the norm being a treacherous kent.

[jelgoon]

Yeh but he's never ever going to be fit. Hes a crock. Its like saying a doctor in a coma is going to be a brilliant doctor again once he's out of hospital when everyone in the hospital knows he's never coming out of the coma.
Hence the word Fit Diaby.

[Power n Glory]

Its irrelevant whether the players shook hands with RVP or not. It had no impact on the game whatsoever.As an Arsenal fan I just want to win matches and win a fucking competition of some kind once in a while. I dont give a shit which players likes and dislikes RVP

It shouldn't matter about handshakes and all but you have to admit that there was a rather casual approach to the game. It just shows the sort of mindset the players were on before kick off. We showed no urgency or intensity in that game. All too casual and half hearted and it showed before kick off.

[jelgoon]

Maybe youre right in hindsight. I remember how John Terry and Psycho Roy Keen would just stare ahead in the tunnel even if an old teammate was on the other side.
It shouldn't matter about handshakes and all but you have to admit that there was a rather casual approach to the game. It just shows the sort of mindset the players were on before kick off. We showed no urgency or intensity in that game. All too casual and half hearted and it showed before kick off.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Maybe youre right in hindsight. I remember how John Terry and Psycho Roy Keen would just stare ahead in the tunnel even if an old teammate was on the other side.

Yeah but footie was diffrent then. You'd never see Paddy V behave like that. Though i did remember Henry did it once joking aroud with rivals before a game.

I just don't beileve players care as much as they used too, its more about picking up the cheque. Its just that some players are better then others.

[Kano]

it was also confirmed that podolski should be playing in the centre, or not at all.

[Letters]

yes, it confirmed that we are not top four material.
I think we are. We're just not top 3 material, and the gap between the top 3 and 'the rest' is massive now. And it's sad that we've become one of 'the rest'.
OK, the top 3 have more resources than us and maybe it's not unreasonable to expect they'll finish above us but the gap shouldn't be this big. Yesterday showed it's massive. Maybe that's what I learned from yesterday. Utd didn't get out of 2nd gear and swept us aside with ease. The final scoreline massively flatters us. It was a hammering in all but the final score.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think we are. We're just not top 3 material, and the gap between the top 3 and 'the rest' is massive now. And it's sad that we've become one of 'the rest'.
OK, the top 3 have more resources than us and maybe it's not unreasonable to expect they'll finish above us but the gap shouldn't be this big. Yesterday showed it's massive. Maybe that's what I learned from yesterday. Utd didn't get out of 2nd gear and swept us aside with ease. The final scoreline massively flatters us. It was a hammering in all but the final score.

We dominated from the 90th minute on.

[SayNoMore]

4th place trophy has our name written on it!

[Lord Nelson]

I don't think so.

There was the predictable hand-wringing and wailing in the match thread as there always is even though before the game we were pretty much unanimous in thinking this was a nailed on certainty for a defeat.

Having been on this board some time I guess I shouldn't be surprised by such reactions but I think we all accept (although are not happy that) we're not serious competitors to the top 3 any more.

So...did we learn anything new from the game and result?
No! We already knew that Wenger has continued to buy very average players and claim they will be world beaters! 2) Our team does not have an ounce of fight in them, they just turn up and claim their wages! 3) we know we will win fuck all under Wenger and this current board!

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

i learnt that we had no winning mentality in our squad which probably stems from the fact wenger wore a long coat on the touchline which prevented him throwing his arms up in the air.

[-Xs-]

We dominated from the 90th minute on.

Little bit illusionary domination

[Niall_Quinn]

Little bit illusionary domination

It depends, illusionary perhaps, but I think yes it is not. I am not racist against extra time but sometimes you must accept you are superior unless they are superior also.

[Kano]

i learnt that we had no winning mentality in our squad which probably stems from the fact wenger wore a long coat on the touchline which prevented him throwing his arms up in the air.
tbh bottled water companies have missed a trick over the past few years. guaranteed weekly product placement.

[Gervinho's Forehead]

tbh bottled water companies have missed a trick over the past few years. guaranteed weekly product placement.

:gp:

Think of all that money from royalties he could earn for the board!

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

tbh bottled water companies have missed a trick over the past few years. guaranteed weekly product placement.

do you have to constantly make racist remarks on here? there's an abundance of water in europe, we get it. but please refrain from rubbing it in odegbami's face.

[hobson's choice]

Good in away, that it was not a humilation like last time.



This was more humiliating, it was like watching a an older brother play his little brother, just taking it easy, and not even playing hard. But the little brother just can't do anything.

[hobson's choice]

I think we are. .


Don't know about this season, cause the last couple of seasons, we were bailed out by one or two players who could score. This season I don't know who gonna score on a consistent basis for us.

Us getting 4th is all dependent on what Spurs do(Everton will fade), if they can avoid major injuries, and AVB doesn't completely fuck things up. They will get that spot.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

This was more humiliating, it was like watching a an older brother play his little brother, just taking it easy, and not even playing hard. But the little brother just can't do anything.

I meant in terms of score line.

[Bergkampwonderland10]

On reflection...
I also learnt
1) Steve Bould is going to have no say while Wenger is still in charge - particularly on the how the back four lines up - does anyone think for a second he'd put Santos in there? Nope Bouldy knows what a defender should look like - should have played the kid Mead that looked like he had some heart in our comeback against Reading.
2) Wenger needs to call it a day at the end of this season - not that I am not grateful but I think he needs to just call it.
3) Podolski is being nullified to cover a suspect left back
4) In recent games Oxlade Chamberlain has been very subdued - no rampaging runs at defenders - just poor attempted crosses to no one - has it been coached out of him already...very disappointing start to the season after so much promise.
5) Some players are squad players and good substitutes to bring on...Ramsey is in this category at the moment.
6) Wenger know's he has lost Walcott and with him goes our biggest goal threat
7) Alex Ferguson's post match talk was only focused on how much more they should have beaten us by....how we have fallen since moving from Highbury
8) We should have found a way to expand highbury - since our move we have won nothing and lost every decent player in order to finance it and balance books
9) As much as I dislike the worm Dein and the fact he sold out to a billionaire rapist - he did a job while he was with us and at least earnt some of his pay packet - Gazidis has done nothing
10) Kroneke does not give two hoots about our club. PHW is the reason so many of our best players leave - he refuses to pay them the big money and keep them. Silly man.

Our club is a business these days - football is secondary :shrug:

[Injury Time]

The purple kit really does look gash with red socks.
Other than that nothing new, 2 real chances in 96mins....Giroud :ilt:

[Bergkampwonderland10]

Interesting story that it was Van Persie's idea to swap his shirt at half-time and not Santos purely asking for it...and VPersie did so knowing it was in full view of the supporters. I thought at the time it was a statement to the fans, 'I've joined a bigger club that wins and thanks but f u...' to me he knew what he was doing when he did that...and santos fell for it because he doesn't seem that bright. They were 5meters from the entrance to the tunnel - no need to do it in view of the fans. Santos' apology in the papers today means absolutely nothing to me, and I wouldn't be sorry not to see him in our shirt again.

I have a sneaky suspiscion Walcott is going to end up at Man Utd.

[Syn]

Nobody just hands you their shirt like that. They must've had a word before. And if he does just hand it to you, just drop it on the pitch, don't carry it. But don't get why Wenger was little bit critical of it - he hugged Van Persie seconds before. ""I don't like it and it will not happen again," the manager Arsene Wenger said last night. "I believe that was not the right thing to do at all, and it's not welcome but that is not an explanation for our bad performance."

[Gervinho's Forehead]

Nobody just hands you their shirt like that. They must've had a word before. And if he does just hand it to you, just drop it on the pitch, don't carry it. But don't get why Wenger was little bit critical of it - he hugged Van Persie seconds before. ""I don't like it and it will not happen again," the manager Arsene Wenger said last night. "I believe that was not the right thing to do at all, and it's not welcome but that is not an explanation for our bad performance."

The hug was just as bad IMO.

It's one of the reasons why I've never been to bothered about the song departure, it pissed me off the way he'd go around hugging all the opposition players before and at the end of every game.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nobody just hands you their shirt like that. They must've had a word before. And if he does just hand it to you, just drop it on the pitch, don't carry it. But don't get why Wenger was little bit critical of it - he hugged Van Persie seconds before. ""I don't like it and it will not happen again," the manager Arsene Wenger said last night. "I believe that was not the right thing to do at all, and it's not welcome but that is not an explanation for our bad performance."

Like lawyers and politicians, they tear the shit out of each other when they are on stage but are drinking buddies when the curtain comes down. That's how it should be in sport, provided the other elements of sportsmanship exist too - which they don't. They are in their own world, separate to ours. It continues to prove they don't have any connection with us any more. We don't enter their thoughts unless they are doing the PR thing in front of a camera. Cynical bullshit the lot of it. I'd rather see the gang from GW playing on a Saturday, there would be a connection at least and I wouldn't give a shit if we got a pasting provided everyone took turns kicking Patrice Evra in the face.

[selassie]

I have a sneaky suspiscion Walcott is going to end up at Man Utd.

I wouldn't be surprised either, Nani replacement? Theo will do well there too.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Nobody just hands you their shirt like that. They must've had a word before. And if he does just hand it to you, just drop it on the pitch, don't carry it. But don't get why Wenger was little bit critical of it - he hugged Van Persie seconds before. ""I don't like it and it will not happen again," the manager Arsene Wenger said last night. "I believe that was not the right thing to do at all, and it's not welcome but that is not an explanation for our bad performance."

I don't think Wenger would have said anything if it was a hug, but what Santos dobe was silly. I agree Wenger should have just walked in the tunnel and not worry about RVP, or said hello.

But i think that hugging thing is the done thing now, between former managers and players and former team mates.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The hug was just as bad IMO.

It's one of the reasons why I've never been to bothered about the song departure, it pissed me off the way he'd go around hugging all the opposition players before and at the end of every game.

This, Rememeber the old Invincible days, when they'd only hug their own. You saw the bond in that team.

[Letters]

They were just better players :shrug:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

They were just better players :shrug:

With Awesome team sprit, remember the pre match hugs lol.

[Letters]

Those hugs have happened recently too. The biggest difference between then and now is they were better players.
And the opposition teams weren't as good - we didn't have billionaire owners building squads which we can't compete with (although we should be closer)

[Marc Overmars]

With Awesome team sprit, remember the pre match hugs lol.

You mean post match.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

no he means pre match

thanks for your interest in our affairs.

[Marc Overmars]

:lol:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

no he means pre match

thanks for your interest in our affairs.

:lol: