Were there more signs of Arsenal's on-field decline on Tuesday?

[paulmc1978]

Read the thoughts of a neutral observer - who has a lot of time for Arsenal as a club. www.mcnamara-sport.tumblr.com

[Marc Overmars]

New Maccy. :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Don't really think, this game told us anything we did not, know. Its clear this season, were not the force we used to be. When you see City struggle in a group that they really should not with the players they have. Then for us, its clear we'd struggle in games.

Schalke are by no means mugs, They got to the semi final a couple of years ago and they have some fantstic players. Not a shock to draw with them at home at all.


Wenger might have hoped Walcott’s electric pace would furnish his team with a constant threat. Notwithstanding his sharp reaction to pounce on a loose ball and score early on, the winger was hugely disappointing.

Within 5 minutes, Walcott, under little pressure, had possession out wide with team-mates rushing to fill the box. His dreadful cross resulted in Schalke breaking and having a shooting chance within seconds.

Later in the match and, at a critical juncture with his team winning 2-1 and the hosts temporarily reduced to 10 men, Walcott wasted another glorious crossing opportunity , blazing high and out of play.

The 23-year old has made no secret of his wish to be deployed as a centre-forward – and in fairness he’s recently showcased an ability to be clinical in front of goal. Presented with a gilt-edged chance to secure an undeserved win for his team in the final seconds in Germany, Walcott could do no better than roll a soft shot straight into the legs of goalkeeper, Lars Unnerstall.

Demonstrating a familiar lack of self-awareness, Walcott said after the game;

‘..hopefully now I can get a run in the team because I feel I fully deserve it’.

Innate confidence is key to a footballer’s ability to perform but such lack of introspection may partly explain one of the modern game’s great mysteries – the limited improvement in Walcott despite close to seven years working daily with Wenger and a panoply of wonderful talent at Arsenal’s London Colney training groung.

This isn’t the first time Walcott’s public behaviour or utterances do him no favours. During Arsenal’s 8-2 capitulation at Manchester United in August 2011 he openly pilloried his then greenhorn colleague, Carl Jenkinson, who was enduring a tough afternoon.

Reflecting on that nadir at a later date Walcott said,

‘The game against United hurt a lot. Seeing the players go through that, no player wants to be part of that’.

To those who didn’t know better that quote would suggest the player had watched from the side-lines as his team were humiliatingly run ragged.

Walcott played for 83 minutes before being withdrawn with his team trailing 7-2.

As an individual who reportedly considers himself worthy of a five-year contract, paying a weekly wage of £100,000 and the power to dictate his position on the field he needs to produce considerably more for his club.

Walcott’s contract situation is merely one of myriad problems Wenger is encountering and his judgement is suffering as a result, not only with regard to his handling of Wilshere.

:popcorn:

Interesting.


It is perhaps unfair that the current Arsenal vintage bear the weight of being compared with their predecessors, not only the aforementioned individuals from Wenger’s trophy winning teams but more recent darlings of the Emirates including; Cesc Fabregas, Samir Nasri and Robin Van Persie.

It is certainly possible that history will record Van Persie’s departure to Manchester United as the act which formally consigned the proud Gunners to a rank below the elite.

When an Arsenal team containing; Nasri, Fabregas, Jack Wilshere and Alex Song contrived to lose the 2011 Carling Cup Final to Birmingham City it marked the beginning of a horrendous three months for the club in which genuine hopes in all competitions were ruthlessly wiped away by superior opponents.

Barcelona and Manchester United ended the Gunners Champions League and F.A. Cup involvement within the space of four March days. The league season petered out, with now familiar vulnerability apparent, in defeats at Stoke City and Bolton Wanderers.

Some good points he makes.

[Cripps_orig]

On field decline?

I blame the board

[Globalgunner]

I was just watching a repeat of the NLD at the Emirates 08/09. We were leading 4-2 with 10 mins to go. Somehow Clichy slips and loses the ball simply because he was afraid of Bentlys shadow...Bam! 4-3. from Jenas...Dying minutes we lost the ball in midfield Bam! 4-4 Aaron Lennon. The defence that day included William Gallas and Mikel Sylvestre.

Fast forward to 2012. New defence: the symptoms are exactly the same. Our players slip and fall under the slightest pressure and immediately the whole team panics...Bam we concede. It shows that the players are not the problem, the coaching is. We have seen this same scenario play itself out for the last 6 years, somethings got to change.

[server too busy!]

I was just watching a repeat of the NLD at the Emirates 08/09. We were leading 4-2 with 10 mins to go. Somehow Clichy slips and loses the ball simply because he was afraid of Bentlys shadow...Bam! 4-3. from Jenas...Dying minutes we lost the ball in midfield Bam! 4-4 Aaron Lennon. The defence that day included William Gallas and Mikel Sylvestre.

Fast forward to 2012. New defence: the symptoms are exactly the same. Our players slip and fall under the slightest pressure and immediately the whole team panics...Bam we concede. It shows that the players are not the problem, the coaching is. We have seen this same scenario play itself out for the last 6 years, somethings got to change.

Shit your right, the coaching is somehow making these players slip over.

[Letters]

New Maccy. :bow:
Maccy. There's only 3 Maccys :bow:

[Master Splinter]

http://www.thedaisycutter.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/jamie-mackie-008.jpg

:bow:

[LDG]

Maccy. There's only 3 Maccys :bow:

The lead singer from Embrace :bow:

[Master Splinter]

Embrace :lol:.

They were more soul-suckingly awlful than Snow Patrol and Coldplay.

Maccy had a shocker there.

[IBK]

@ the OP. I agree with your sentiment. I think the article you have quoted is spot on.

This from ANR today is also on the money.


Myles,

With the blogosphere still alight with comments on what Wenger should do with the current team's frailties, I think most fans are still of the misguided opinion that new star names will change the team.

That's not going to happen, because that's not really the problem.

I've been watching Carzola lately and he's getting that funny bug players get when they come to Arsenal, like a disease that afflicts a previously brilliant player (ala Arshavin, Rosicky et al) and slowly makes him insipid, indecisive and hopeless. He's also probably starting to tire because of the sheer number of games he has to play especially coming from a league that's less physical.

The group of people you work and play with can either bring you down or lift you up (Maybe explaining why RVP might have a blinder of a season).

Many good players come in to Arsenal and play really well for a season…or 2 if they are tough, but then the general culture of the club gobbles you up and makes you slow and uncompetitive. Something changes in your psyche as a player. It wasn't always like this, but now, now its gotten endemic.

At this stage it doesn't really matter who comes in.

Something bigger needs to change, the mentality needs to change, the spirit of play and the spirit of the team used to be slightly fragile even before during the invincible days, but now its getting dangerously close to being apathetic.

The players are mostly accomplished, talented..well most of them are and with a great change in attitude we'd all see it. Place this same team in the hands of Jose or Fergie and tell me we'd be seeing such abject displays week in - of course not. The problem is in the mind, the lack of purpose and belief is the real problem..so buying star players isn't really going to solve this little problem we have.

I sometimes look at Wenger and feel a mixture of admiration, pity and rage.

In so many ways he's brilliant, but he's not really one to observe and adapt to things. He's an innovator, he makes new things, forges new paths - but in the modern world, your innovations are only going to last as long as the next adaptation and reactions to them. Wenger at the moment is cannibalizing himself, tarnishing his legacy at Arsenal every season and not even seeing it.

Maybe he is a modern day Sisyphus.

In Greek mythology, Sisyphus was a king punished by being compelled to roll an immense boulder up a hill, only to watch it roll back down, and to repeat this action forever.



This article raises a good point - the way Wenger's methods - while they work well with some players (generally the ones we flog every season) - seem to take away all spontenaity and individualism from others.

I agree wholeheartedly that the malaise with this team will not be solved by bringing in players - particularly the calibre of players that we tend to buy. And this is why I don't see what the club sees - which is some magical transformation of fortunes come FFP. I would love to see what a talented manager could do with the same group of players that AW has. My suspicion is that they would do better.

[jelgoon]

According to Jack Wilshere on the Arsenal website `we’re getting better all the time'. I know he's young but surely he's not that stupid/blind. Or does Wenger hypnotise them after each game.

[IBK]

Wishful thinking. I have no doubt that 'loyal' players believe. I have little doubt that the manager believes. The question is - where is the evidence? We all know that this team is capable of playing well on occasion. We all know that our players have the talent to play well. But for me it is equally apparent that this, like all of Wenger's teams (even as the article write points out - the Invincibles) is a mentally fragile team ill-suited to playing the brand of technical, confidence football that the manager is obsessed with.

I suspect that we look outstanding on the training pitch - after all the squad will play against itself - players playing the same type of tippy tap football. But we have had example after example of our team failing to bring training ground form into real matches. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that this team won't flatter to deceive at best - like so many others before it.

[GP]

lol, what else do you expect him to say to the official site?

[Boss]

It was only his third appearance for us after all, in an entirely new team.

It takes longer than three games to build a partnership.

[IBK]

It was only his third appearance for us after all, in an entirely new team.

It takes longer than three games to build a partnership.

Your point being?

[jelgoon]

Good post. Agree with you. I think a lot of our problems are in the mind. The way Wenger speaks in the media is just not the way that Ferguson or Mourinhou would ever speak. Wenger talks about the players lacking confidence so often now.
Wishful thinking. I have no doubt that 'loyal' players believe. I have little doubt that the manager believes. The question is - where is the evidence? We all know that this team is capable of playing well on occasion. We all know that our players have the talent to play well. But for me it is equally apparent that this, like all of Wenger's teams (even as the article write points out - the Invincibles) is a mentally fragile team ill-suited to playing the brand of technical, confidence football that the manager is obsessed with.

I suspect that we look outstanding on the training pitch - after all the squad will play against itself - players playing the same type of tippy tap football. But we have had example after example of our team failing to bring training ground form into real matches. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that this team won't flatter to deceive at best - like so many others before it.

[jelgoon]

Well not that. Maybe `we're shit but hope to get better'.


lol, what else do you expect him to say to the official site?

[GP]

Well not that. Maybe `we're shit but hope to get better'.

That's quite naive.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Shit your right, the coaching is somehow making these players slip over.

:haha:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That's quite naive.


Pretty much.

[Globalgunner]

:haha:

Glad i can entertain you. For me the real comedy is out there on the field with Arsenal`s defenders having the highest own goal stats in the EPL. My point was that we panic when put under pressure. Good training dials that out of you.Clichy was a classic example of that. Note that playing for Mancity he now makes fewer mistakes

Sometimes being blind and refusing to see amount to the same thing.

When Vermaelen volleyed thae ball into his own net at Schalke all you had to say was that it wasnt an own goal.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Glad i can entertain you. For me the real comedy is out there on the field with Arsenal`s defenders having the highest own goal stats in the EPL. My point was that we panic when put under pressure. Good training dials that out of you.Clichy was a classic example of that. Note that playing for Mancity he now makes fewer mistakes

Sometimes being blind and refusing to see amount to the same thing.

When Vermaelen volleyed thae ball into his own net at Schalke all you had to say was that it wasnt an own goal.

Where did i question your post.

[Globalgunner]

My bad. It was Ach, but it still seems you have a silly obsession with my posts.

I recall this bullshit post from the Norwich thread

20-10-2012, 07:04 PM#289

Originally Posted by Globalgunner

If we lose this one i guess Wenger will be anointed the patron saint of relegation threatened teams. Is it QPR next?

Oh STFU and go whine somewhere else.

Fortunately the other posters put you in your place without my needing to

You need something else to make your existence fulfilling as i am not it.

[Xhaka Can’t]

You have a minor go at Charlie for something he didn't do and when you realise you were wrong, you drag up the past to have a bigger go at him?

Well played sir. :tiphat:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

My bad. It was Ach, but it still seems you have a silly obsession with my posts.

I recall this bullshit post from the Norwich thread

20-10-2012, 07:04 PM#289

Originally Posted by Globalgunner

If we lose this one i guess Wenger will be anointed the patron saint of relegation threatened teams. Is it QPR next?

Oh STFU and go whine somewhere else.

Fortunately the other posters put you in your place without my needing to

You need something else to make your existence fulfilling as i am not it.

I've never questiond any of you post.

If i said that aftet the nowrich game, then it was in frustation.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You have a minor go at Charlie for something he didn't do and when you realise you were wrong, you drag up the past to have a bigger go at him?

Well played sir. :tiphat:

:haha:

Pretty much, typical of when people are wrong on here.

[Marc Overmars]

tipical. :bow:

[Globalgunner]

:haha:

Pretty much, typical of when people are wrong on here.

The only thing that s typical is that some people are deluded into disbelief. When comments are made about our defects instead of arguing the point you search for contextual faults with the post. My original post ws that our defending is perenially slapstick. Vermaelen`s comedy capers are no different from what weve seen from our defence every year. AKB response is that it was just a one off. like its always been for the last 7 years.

The only thing that cant be laughed off is that we are stagnating under the reign of Wenger. I am not wrong on that am I.?

You excuse your abusive post on frustration but what about others, years of frustration watching the same crap year on year

[Xhaka Can’t]

Hopefully this teaches Charlie not to get mistaken for other posters once and for all.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The only thing that s typical is that some people are deluded into disbelief. When comments are made about our defects instead of arguing the point you search for contextual faults with the post. My original post ws that our defending is perenially slapstick. Vermaelen`s comedy capers are no different from what weve seen from our defence every year. AKB response is that it was just a one off. like its always been for the last 7 years.

The only thing that cant be laughed off is that we are stagnating under the reign of Wenger. I am not wrong on that am I.?

You excuse your abusive post on frustration but what about others, years of frustration watching the same crap year on year

Whats your point, a lot of people abuse others on here, but you choose to target me because of something i said in frustation just after we lost a game.





Oh STFU and go whine somewhere else.


Excuse me mate, why don't u fuck off and take your over optimistic bs with you

So its ok for me to be abused, but when i say something to you in frustation because we were loosing the game, you decided to moan.

Then you accuse me of stuff i never did, or stuff that Ach did. Then you say shite like this.


Every time youre on here trying to deflect from Wenger by blaming the board.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1857&page=10

Then when i asked you for 10 examples you could not find one.

Just admit you was wrong and get over it, if you think i was abusive then put me on ignore simples.