Redknapp to Arsenal

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

i can feel a harry or wenger poll coming soon..

whether it beats the classic coyle or wenger poll remains to be seen

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I suggested this back in June http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1585

Unfortunately the majority of this forum can't see what is for the best tbh.

No i think the minority of this forum can't see whats for best. If they think Harry is the answer.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

im afraid the best post was this by Maccy

tbf
Dick. by LDG matches it tbh.

[bignev]

He's an Arsenal fan. He's one of us :ollie:My reaction? Can't do any worse than what we're doing now

Well yeah we could. We could be 20th in the table.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Oh ffs

It takes at least 2 for this abhorrent and asinine idea to thrive

Someone stfu already

:ilt:

[Niall_Quinn]

im afraid the best post was this by Maccy

Only because my post was edited by the mods to read... fluffy bunnies, look at the fluffy bunnies...

But that's not what I actually said at all! What I actually said was...

fluffy bunnies... look at the fluffy bunnies...

[fakeyank]

No i think the minority of this forum can't see whats for best. If they think Harry is the answer.

Harry is not the answer. The answer is someone like Mourinho or Ferguson but is Harry a better manager at present than AW? That is very likely. AW is 99.32% away from domination and Arry is 90.65% away from domination.

[Niall_Quinn]

Harry is not the answer. The answer is someone like Mourinho or Ferguson but is Harry a better manager at present than AW? That is very likely. AW is 99.32% away from domination and Arry is 90.65% away from domination.

Isn't Arry out of a job? Or has some gullible idiot hired him again?

[Letters]

Racist <_<

[Letters]

Harry is not the answer. The answer is someone like Mourinho or Ferguson but is Harry a better manager at present than AW? That is very likely. AW is 99.32% away from domination and Arry is 90.65% away from domination.
Oh behave. A Harry team hasn't once finished above a Wenger team and when they had a chance to last year he cocked it up.

[Fist of Lehmann]

Isn't Arry out of a job? Or has some gullible idiot hired him again?

Currently working for AFC Bournemouth as a "special advisor", a bit like Kofi Annan with a twitch and a hand in the till.

Also, this thread :haha:

[Kano]

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2010/09/23/article-1285235756267-0B50E2B0000005DC-546396_466x539.jpg

[Ollie the Optimist]

these are redknapps stats for games played, won, drawn, lost and win percentage as manager


1,274 520 318 437 40.82

these are Wengers


1,354 723 303 328 53.40

so the stats are based on roughly the same amount of games each, and should put the argument that redknapp would be a better bet then wenger right now to bed.

if not, wenger has won countless trophies, redknapp has only ever won one trophy. that really should put it to bed

[Özim]

if not, wenger has won countless trophies, redknapp has only ever won one trophy. that really should put it to bed
Countless? Actually 11 I can count to 11 fortunately (I don't count the charity shield as lets face it, it's not a trophy in any real sense - 2 were in Japan when competition was let's be honest Mickey Mouse)

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That was cr*p the first time I saw it and a rip off of another you tube clip :lol:

Are you GP's bitch nowadays? Only you seem to be like his shadow or something.

Why jealous :coffee:

[Ollie the Optimist]

Countless? Actually 11 I can count to 11 fortunately (I don't count the charity shield as lets face it, it's not a trophy in any real sense - 2 were in Japan when competition was let's be honest Mickey Mouse)

ok so the fact he has won then 11 trophies compared to redknapp's 1, won more games then him, lost fewer games then him, and has a win percentage 13% higher then redknapp so apart from all those facts, redknapp is a better manager.

[Özim]

Why jealous :coffee:
Definitely not, I'm more embarrassed for you to be honest....some people you just don't want to be associated with as they are just too cringeworthy.

[Özim]

ok so the fact he has won then 11 trophies compared to redknapp's 1, won more games then him, lost fewer games then him, and has a win percentage 13% higher then redknapp so apart from all those facts, redknapp is a better manager.
I don't think anyone said he is better, more that he can't be any worse, which these days is true because Wenger is pretty awful.

How about comparing the last 7 years and seeing what that comes up with, Wenger has had 7 years of abject failure. Wenger went from manager to glorified scout...to what he is now which is basically clueless.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I don't think anyone said he is better, more that he can't be any worse, which these days is true because Wenger is pretty awful.

How about comparing the last 7 years and seeing what that comes up with, Wenger has had 7 years of abject failure. Wenger went from manager to glorified scout...to what he is now which is basically clueless.

we can easily compare the last four years. both managers were managing clubs in direct rivally with each other. it was redknapp v wenger. wenger won. every year.

[Kano]

Harry is not the answer. The answer is someone like Mourinho or Ferguson but is Harry a better manager at present than AW? That is very likely. AW is 99.32% away from domination and Arry is 90.65% away from domination.
you must be 1% from retardation if you believe any word of that.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

zimm has had his arse well and truly handed to him again.

altogether now

one man and his view, went to bed deluded, one man and his shitty view, went to bed deluded
two man and his vie......

[Ollie the Optimist]

zimm has had his arse well and truly handed to him again.

altogether now

one man and his view, went to bed deluded, one man and his shitty view, went to bed deluded
two man and his vie......

:haha:

[GP]

:lol:

Absolutely destroyed. It's all been pretty cringeworthy.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

zimm has had his arse well and truly handed to him again.

altogether now

one man and his view, went to bed deluded, one man and his shitty view, went to bed deluded
two man and his vie......

No Ach to save him this time :coffee:

[Letters]

we can easily compare the last four years. both managers were managing clubs in direct rivally with each other. it was redknapp v wenger. wenger won. every year.
So what?

[Özim]

zimm has had his arse well and truly handed to him again.

altogether now

one man and his view, went to bed deluded, one man and his shitty view, went to bed deluded
two man and his vie......
You mean like you the other day regarding dribbling.

Strength and pace are the two most important aspects of dribbling......really? :lol:

[Özim]

:lol:

Absolutely destroyed. It's all been pretty cringeworthy.
You should know you're the king of cringeworthyness after all.

[Ollie the Optimist]

You should know you're the king of cringeworthyness after all.

not sure whats worse, your arguments in this thread or your comebacks

[Özim]

No Ach to save him this time :coffee:
Save me? :lol: I didn't need anyone to save me you wanted me to search two years of posts for something everyone knew, I wasn't about to when everyone knew what you'd said.

[Özim]

not sure whats worse, your arguments in this thread or your comebacks
Whatever it is it's still better than the quality of your posts and the spelling for that matter. :lol:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

not sure whats worse, your arguments in this thread or your comebacks

:haha:

[Özim]

:haha:
You get more and more like the king of cringe everyday, no wonder Cripps laughs at you all the time :lol:

[GP]

not sure whats worse, your arguments in this thread or your comebacks

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fTeZPMKF7Os/UH1OvuDB2kI/AAAAAAAAOH8/dWyJNEhFNcg/s1600/KaBoom.gif

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You get more and more like the king of cringe everyday, no wonder Cripps laughs at you all the time :lol:

:haha:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

You mean like you the other day regarding dribbling.

Strength and pace are the two most important aspects of dribbling......really? :lol:

heskey the black messi :haha:

ibrahimovic a 'great' dribbler :haha:

tevez 'overrated' :haha:

aguero has an inferior goals record at man city compared to tevez but is still 'far superior' to tevez :haha:

harry redknapp as arsenal manager :haha: :haha:


close the door on your way out pal. actually ill let ollie carry on serving your ass to the wolves.


http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9yjbd1Tei1r18swjo1_400.gif

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

not sure whats worse, your arguments in this thread or your comebacks

:haha: :haha:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

heskey the black messi :haha:

ibrahimovic a 'great' dribbler :haha:

tevez 'overrated' :haha:

aguero has an inferior goals record at man city compared to tevez but is still 'far superior' than tevez :haha:

harry redknapp as arsenal manager :haha: :haha:


close the door on your way out pal. actually ill let ollie carry on serving your ass to the wolves.


http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9yjbd1Tei1r18swjo1_400.gif

Zimm :rose:

[Özim]

heskey the black messi :haha:

ibrahimovic a 'great' dribbler :haha:

tevez 'overrated' :haha:

aguero has an inferior goals record at man city compared to tevez but is still 'far superior' than tevez :haha:

harry redknapp as arsenal manager :haha: :haha:


close the door on your way out pal. actually ill let ollie carry on serving your ass to the wolves.


http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9yjbd1Tei1r18swjo1_400.gif
I wasn't the one arguing pal, it was PNG, I'd already handed you your arse on a plate several times by then, PNG just carried on where I left off :lol:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

I wasn't the one arguing pal, it was PNG, I'd already handed you your arse on a plate several times by then, PNG just carried on where I left off :lol:

is that why you backed out of the argument when your boyfriend stepped in?

[Ollie the Optimist]

actually in getting redknapp as manager, zimm has come up with a genius idea. no one would go near the emirates with that **** in charge, therefore depreiving the board of any money as no one watches them, we get rid of wenger and then kronke and the board. then sack redknapp, start again and jobs a good's

[Olivier's xmas twist]

actually in getting redknapp as manager, zimm has come up with a genius idea. no one would go near the emirates with that **** in charge, therefore depreiving the board of any money as no one watches them, we get rid of wenger and then kronke and the board. then sack redknapp, start again and jobs a good's

Agent Zimm :bow:

[GP]

This has possibly been the most comprehensive owning in GW history. Not a single soul in support.

[Xhaka Can’t]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS1KMHtShuynFUlt0yGZDTWuOQX-2yERh-gwbo3mai_RBp0kXJB

Well, that's pretty random! :lol:

[Özim]

This has possibly been the most comprehensive owning in GW history. Not a single soul in support.
Only if your a muppet. :coffee:

[Özim]

Gotta love this, people laughing at Ollie's comments....that's got to be a first....well no they do usually laugh at them but to laugh at him not with him :lol:

Must be fake laughter to WUM.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Only if your a muppet. :coffee:

dont even attempt that argument. you have just spent all day telling us to replace wenger with redknapp. you dont have a leg to stand on calling someone else a muppet :coffee:

[Özim]

is that why you backed out of the argument when your boyfriend stepped in?
Wow that's witty, I'd already made you look like a tool and I was getting bored actually! :coffee:

[Kano]

time for a pulis to arsenal thread now?

[Özim]

Typical GW this, they can't argue that Wenger is a god anymore so they find something else to do. I remember when you guys use to argue Wenger is irreplaceable and did everything right.....don't you look like idiots now :lol:

[GP]

Only if your a muppet. :coffee:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbjytlwAvl1qzhzxy.jpg

[Ollie the Optimist]

Gotta love this, people laughing at Ollie's comments....that's got to be a first....well no they do usually laugh at them but to laugh at him not with him :lol:

Must be fake laughter to WUM.

not sure which is more likely to be seen as wumming though. someone laughing at my post or arguing Arsenal should hire redknapp as manager?

[Özim]

not sure which is more likely to be seen as wumming though. someone laughing at my post or arguing Arsenal should hire redknapp as manager?
I'd say the former without a doubt.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Typical GW this, they can't argue that Wenger is a god anymore so they find something else to do. I remember when you guys use to argue Wenger is irreplaceable and did everything right.....don't you look like idiots now :lol:

maybe, however calling for redknapp to replace him makes us look like nothing compared to you

[GP]

not sure which is more likely to be seen as wumming though. someone laughing at my post or arguing Arsenal should hire redknapp as manager?

Put it this way; one has a history of WUMing on here.

Clue: It isn't you.

[Özim]

maybe, however calling for redknapp to replace him makes us look like nothing compared to you
No not really, you've been made to look like a fool for 7 years, think that probably edges it :lol:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Typical GW this, they can't argue that Wenger is a god anymore so they find something else to do. I remember when you guys use to argue Wenger is irreplaceable and did everything right.....don't you look like idiots now :lol:

Compared to who you're arguing for, Wenger at his lowest ebb is the god of gods.

[Ollie the Optimist]

No not really, you've been made to look like a fool for 7 years, think that probably edges it :lol:

yeah ive been stupid for 7 years, but then i grew up. dont worry you will one day :coffee:

[Özim]

Put it this way; one has a history of WUMing on here.

Clue: It isn't you.
F*ck me it actually talks, I thought all it did was post smiley faces to wind people up :faint:

[Özim]

yeah ive been stupid for 7 years, but then i grew up. dont worry you will one day :coffee:
Grew up, really...could have fooled me....and everyone else actually (apart from your WUM friends of course not enough brain cells between them sadly)

[Özim]

Compared to who you're arguing for, Wenger at his lowest ebb is the god of gods.
I argued he couldn't be any worse, which is probably true as Wenger is clueless....you only need to listen to his excuses and look at the decisions he makes.

16 points from 11 games and he's still smug.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

This has possibly been the most comprehensive owning in GW history. Not a single soul in support.

:haha:

Zimm he's been owned well and proper today.

[Marc Overmars]

I've never had a problem with Zim and always thought he got a bit of a rough ride on here because he's been against Wenger for a long time, but to be honest you've let youself down here mate. Totally blinded by the agenda you have.

I hope you come back from this stronger and wiser.

#prayforzim

[Ollie the Optimist]

I argued he couldn't be any worse, which is probably true as Wenger is clueless....you only need to listen to his excuses and look at the decisions he makes.

16 points from 11 games and he's still smug.

last year, redknapp said to tottenham they would win the league then told them to cheer up as 4th was over acheving. and his excuses were awful. he mugged the fans off as much as wenger does yet you refuse to talk about that, i asked you about it earlier and you completely ignored it.

also he would be worse because he has never bettered wenger. so you want to replace a "clueless" manager with one who has never bettered him. and you call me stupid :lol:

[Kano]

Typical GW this, they can't argue that Wenger is a god anymore so they find something else to do. I remember when you guys use to argue Wenger is irreplaceable and did everything right.....don't you look like idiots now :lol:
yeah well done. we're all pissed off about it like you.

what now?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I've never had a problem with Zim and always thought he got a bit of a rough ride on here because he's been against Wenger for a long time, but to be honest you've let youself down here mate. Totally blinded by the agenda you have.

I hope you come back from this stronger and wiser.

#prayforzim

Pretty much.

[Özim]

I've never had a problem with Zim and always thought he got a bit of a rough ride on here because he's been against Wenger for a long time, but to be honest you've let youself down here mate. Totally blinded by the agenda you have.

I hope you come back from this stronger and wiser.

#prayforzim
Do you know what, I'll take it from you as your actually a decent poster and a nice enough bloke (and quite funny).

You win some you lose some I guess.

[Özim]

yeah well done. we're all pissed off about it like you.

what now?
Not really aimed at you to be honest....more some of the tools on here who were all smug a few years ago and now don't have the courage of their convictions anymore.

[V-Pig]

Do you know what, I'll take it from you as your actually a decent poster and a nice enough bloke (and quite funny).

You win some you lose some I guess.

*YOU'RE ffs.

Two times! Is this the shocker we're referring to?

HAHAHA, actually, apart from his warped views, I find it hard to dislike Zimm. He's not generally nasty to other posters and he takes a lot of (deserved) criticism very well indeed.

[Özim]

*YOU'RE ffs.

Two times! Is this the shocker we're referring to?

HAHAHA, actually, apart from his warped views, I find it hard to dislike Zimm. He's not generally nasty to other posters and he takes a lot of (deserved) criticism very well indeed.
The feeling is mutual, sure we differ with our views but you don't get offensive or go on the WUM like some of these guys when someone disagrees, got to respect that tbh

[Xhaka Can’t]

Not really aimed at you to be honest....more some of the tools on here who were all smug a few years ago and now don't have the courage of their convictions anymore.

Were you saying he should have gone 10/15 years ago?

Things change and opinions move along with them. I'd say that a lot more thought has gone into the majority of opinions expressed here than with yourself.

You come across as someone consumed with an irrational hatred and your posts on this thread are bizarre, both from the perspective of a fan of the Club and anyone with a remote grasp of facts.

I want and have wanted a change of Manager for a long time, but that does not mean I want someone who I know to be and is proven to be a worse option.

[Niall_Quinn]

time for a pulis to arsenal thread now?

Not a bad idea. Anyone but Wenger to be fair.

[Özim]

Were you saying he should have gone 10/15 years ago?

Things change and opinions move along with them. I'd say that a lot more thought has gone into the majority of opinions expressed here than with yourself.

You come across as someone consumed with an irrational hatred and your posts on this thread are bizarre, both from the perspective of a fan of the Club and anyone with a remote grasp of facts.

I want and have wanted a change of Manager for a long time, but that does not mean I want someone who I know to be and is proven to be a worse option.
He was a nobody 15 years ago and 10 years ago things were going well, as I said though how can you not question those achievements when he's managed to go 7 years without a trophy of any kind and shown tactcal naivety beyond belief, there's no other example I can remember of a supposedly top manager who just stopped winning at a top club for that long.

Bizarre why because I dislike a guy who gets paid vast amount and openly lies to the fans on the daily basis and yet for some odd reason still gets praise...I'd say that's more bizarre.

This whole situation is largely down to his incompetence and yet he's easily absolved of blame, you even had people feeling sorry for him at the AGM. The guy has a great life, loads of money, a job he can pretty much do anything in and no questions to answer....yeah I think I'll keep my sympathies for someone more deserving...someone who actually has a hard life and deserves credit for doing something meaningful for society.

He out of credit in my eyes and was quite a while ago.

[Niall_Quinn]

someone who actually has a hard life and deserves credit for doing something meaningful for society.

Shucks. :loveblush:

Me :bow:

[Ollie the Optimist]

He was a nobody 15 years ago and 10 years ago things were going well, as I said though how can you not question those achievements when he's managed to go 7 years without a trophy of any kind and shown tactcal naivety beyond belief, there's no other example I can remember of a supposedly top manager who just stopped winning at a top club for that long.

Bizarre why because I dislike a guy who gets paid vast amount and openly lies to the fans on the daily basis and yet for some odd reason still gets praise...I'd say that's more bizarre.

This whole situation is largely down to his incompetence and yet he's easily absolved of blame, you even had people feeling sorry for him at the AGM. The guy has a great life, loads of money, a job he can pretty much do anything in and no questions to answer....yeah I think I'll keep my sympathies for someone more deserving...someone who actually has a hard life and deserves credit for doing something meaningful for society.

He out of credit in my eyes and was quite a while ago.

why should we question his achievements. he won those cups, he won those league titles and he won the league unbeaten, why should we question those becuase we have been 7 years without wining? all ex players say it was down to him, you just have to listen to adams, dixon, parlour etc.

[Xhaka Can’t]

He was a nobody 15 years ago and 10 years ago things were going well, as I said though how can you not question those achievements when he's managed to go 7 years without a trophy of any kind and shown tactcal naivety beyond belief, there's no other example I can remember of a supposedly top manager who just stopped winning at a top club for that long.

Bizarre why because I dislike a guy who gets paid vast amount and openly lies to the fans on the daily basis and yet for some odd reason still gets praise...I'd say that's more bizarre.

This whole situation is largely down to his incompetence and yet he's easily absolved of blame, you even had people feeling sorry for him at the AGM. The guy has a great life, loads of money, a job he can pretty much do anything in and no questions to answer....yeah I think I'll keep my sympathies for someone more deserving...someone who actually has a hard life and deserves credit for doing something meaningful for society.

He out of credit in my eyes and was quite a while ago.

So did you instantly decide he should go 7 years ago? I didn't and can't see why anyone else would? If anything I reckon his first 2-4 years at the Emirates provided him with monumental tasks and he did incredibly well to keep us as good as we were during that period.

Where I have problems is what has happened subsequently - he failed to build on what really was a transition period, so in my mind he has failed only for the past 3 years or so, and it has been obvious for a while now that he is not going to be able to turn it around.

To say he has failed for seven years is not giving any thought to the environment he has been working in - both externally with the introduction of silly money and internally, managing a top team while the Club underwent the largest unassisted capital infrastructure project in the history of Club football anywhere in the world.

[Ollie the Optimist]

So did you instantly decide he should go 7 years ago? I didn't and can't see why anyone else would? If anything I reckon his first 2-4 years at the Emirates provided him with monumental tasks and he did incredibly well to keep us as good as we were during that period.

Where I have problems is what has happened subsequently - he failed to build on what really was a transition period, so in my mind he has failed only for the past 3 years or so, and it has been obvious for a while now that he is not going to be able to turn it around.

To say he has failed for seven years is not giving any thought to the environment he has been working in - both externally with the introduction of silly money and internally, managing a top team while the Club underwent the largest unassisted capital infrastructure project in the history of Club football anywhere in the world.

i agree, its been a three year failure for me instead of 7. no one would have said this owuld happen 7 years ago, 7 years ago we were in our first ever champions league final and we felt good about ourselves. the first year, wasnt a failure at the time. it looks like one now, no one said so at the time.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

i agree, its been a three year failure for me instead of 7. no one would have said this owuld happen 7 years ago, 7 years ago we were in our first ever champions league final and we felt good about ourselves. the first year, wasnt a failure at the time. it looks like one now, no one said so at the time.

Anyone with a brain would have known the 1st 4 years at Emirates may not have delieved silverware. Hence why not loads were upset.

Even now people are not upset over not winning trophies, its more of why we have not been able too.

[Niall_Quinn]

That dismal cup final victory was the start of the downward slide for me. Our philosophy was torn up that day and it was the first of many capitulations to come, even though we did a Liverpool on them and stole it.

[Özim]

So did you instantly decide he should go 7 years ago? I didn't and can't see why anyone else would? If anything I reckon his first 2-4 years at the Emirates provided him with monumental tasks and he did incredibly well to keep us as good as we were during that period.

Where I have problems is what has happened subsequently - he failed to build on what really was a transition period, so in my mind he has failed only for the past 3 years or so, and it has been obvious for a while now that he is not going to be able to turn it around.

To say he has failed for seven years is not giving any thought to the environment he has been working in - both externally with the introduction of silly money and internally, managing a top team while the Club underwent the largest unassisted capital infrastructure project in the history of Club football anywhere in the world.
I started to see problems in 2006, that's where it begun and it grew from there...he should have gone several years ago IMO, he's had way too many chances.

He sold off players (top players) without any kind of proper planning, you can't just let players go without having someone in there to take their place and over the years he's repeated this time and time again, at the same time he put his faith in kids who never really looked capable of taking the mantle and had noone to learn from in any case.

The environment he's been working with is taken into consideration to an extent, but we sold players for a profit and I refuse to believe he couldn't have re-invested that, the problem when he did spend he spent it badly on cheap nobodies who failed to deliver (some of which we are lumbered with), he also enforced a wage policy which effectively crippled us in the transfer market when it comes to being competitive on the salary side.

The billionaires argument doesn't wash for me, simply because their have been players we could have signed in our budget who would have vastly improved the team, everytime however we've gone down the unknown route, this is typical Wenger wanting to prove the world wrong. Our lack of ambition has in the end meant our top players didn't want to stick around (which suits the club to a t).

And now 6 years down the line where are we? Still scrimping around for bargain basement buys to placate fans who have to watch the clubs best players leave....now to clubs who once were our fiercest rivals (something that would have been unthinkable 6 years ago).

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Stop trolling for the sake of it Charlie, it doesn't suit you.

True i'll leave it to GP and SWAYR.

[Niall_Quinn]

I started to see problems in 2006, that's where it begun and it grew from there...he should have gone several years ago IMO, he's had way too many chances.

He sold off players (top players) without any kind of proper planning, you can't just let players go without having someone in there to take their place and over the years he's repeated this time and time again, at the same time he put his faith in kids who never really looked capable of taking the mantle and had noone to learn from in any case.

The environment he's been working with is taken into consideration to an extent, but we sold players for a profit and I refuse to believe he couldn't have re-invested that, the problem when he did spend he spent it badly on cheap nobodies who failed to deliver (some of which we are lumbered with), he also enforced a wage policy which effectively crippled us in the transfer market when it comes to being competitive on the salary side.

The billionaires argument doesn't wash for me, simply because their have been players we could have signed in our budget who would have vastly improved the team, everytime however we've gone down the unknown route, this is typical Wenger wanting to prove the world wrong. Our lack of ambition has in the end meant our top players didn't want to stick around (which suits the club to a t).

And now 6 years down the line where are we? Still scrimping around for bargain basement buys to placate fans who have to watch the clubs best players leave....now to clubs who once were our fiercest rivals (something that would have been unthinkable 6 years ago).

And yet the previous shareholders have slinked off with half a billion in their wallets and the new guy go around the stadium on hands and knees seeing if anyone left change behind. Do you not factor this at all into your reckoning and try to place Wenger's job into a more realistic context? I don't say I agree with his solidarity with these obnoxious bastards but even then the employer/ employee realities have to be considered. It's really not as simple as you make out.

[Özim]

And yet the previous shareholders have slinked off with half a billion in their wallets and the new guy go around the stadium on hands and knees seeing if anyone left change behind. Do you not factor this at all into your reckoning and try to place Wenger's job into a more realistic context? I don't say I agree with his solidarity with these obnoxious bastards but even then the employer/ employee realities have to be considered. It's really not as simple as you make out.
I'm more than aware of the slimebags at the top, I remember slating PHW many years ago and people telling me how he was a great man who did so much for the club and love it so dearly....I saw through it.

It doesn't change the fact Wenger has spent the money badly and enforced a ridiculous pay policy, his decision on the pitch have also been bizarre...and that's ignoring his unflappable belief in players which had never earnt the right to even play for us.

The board are a big problem as well no question, but Wenger takes as much of the blame for me, he could have done so much differently which would have given us a far better chance of success, he's been unwilling to and has continued to support failing methods despite the clear indications right in front of his eyes.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That dismal cup final victory was the start of the downward slide for me. Our philosophy was torn up that day and it was the first of many capitulations to come, even though we did a Liverpool on them and stole it.

Yep, This is when it was realised that we could make money of our better players tbh. Cause before this i don't think we sold anybody of value tbh. I mean in the time we moved to the stadium.

[Joker]

I disagree with Zim RE: Redknapp but the way he's been hounded by certain posters (not just in this thread) is pathetic. And it's always the same techniques, posting sarcastic pictures, making snide remarks about him indirectly and sometimes it's simple abuse.
Surely some of the off topic crap certain posters use to disrupt debates should be deleted?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Yeah it should but I don't remember you posting to say something similar the other day when Charlie was getting his posts taken down from numerous other posters.

[GP]

I disagree with Zim RE: Redknapp but the way he's been hounded by certain posters (not just in this thread) is pathetic. And it's always the same techniques, posting sarcastic pictures, making snide remarks about him indirectly and sometimes it's simple abuse.
Surely some of the off topic crap certain posters use to disrupt debates should be deleted?

He's a blatant WUM and so was given short shrift. Get off your high horse.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm more than aware of the slimebags at the top, I remember slating PHW many years ago and people telling me how he was a great man who did so much for the club and love it so dearly....I saw through it.

It doesn't change the fact Wenger has spent the money badly and enforced a ridiculous pay policy, his decision on the pitch have also been bizarre...and that's ignoring his unflappable belief in players which had never earnt the right to even play for us.

The board are a big problem as well no question, but Wenger takes as much of the blame for me, he could have done so much differently which would have given us a far better chance of success, he's been unwilling to and has continued to support failing methods despite the clear indications right in front of his eyes.

But the "told you so" attitude doesn't seem to take into account the fact almost everyone has been smacking their heads over some of Wenger's policies. There aren't any 100% pro posters on this forum that I can see. The question is, in light of everything that has been happening at the club, taking all that into consideration, is it time for Wenger to go? 7 or 5 or even 3 years ago my answer would be no, because there was still a chance the stated objectives could materialise. Now we see fairly clearly it was a giant con designed to enrich a few individuals at the expense of the club as a whole.

In hindsight, a wonderful thing, protests should have started the day the foundations of the new stadium were driven. But back then most were caught up in this bullshit vision of us competing at the top, yes certainly in terms of the balance sheet but with the understanding the revenue generated would be poured onto the pitch. That's fairly enticing and seemed a reasonable progression for a club that was on the up. The fact a few clever bastards would hijack the whole vision didn't enter into my mind at the time. Can you really say it entered your head?

So all we really had to work with was the tumbleweed blowing across the transfer thread and the general weirdness of certain aspects of Wenger's management style. Offset that against a collection of nearly, maybe, if only seasons and backstop it with a remarkable track record from previous years and it's difficult to just say sack the manager. The fans were living in hope. What else is there when you have zero control or influence?

[Niall_Quinn]

I disagree with Zim RE: Redknapp but the way he's been hounded by certain posters (not just in this thread) is pathetic. And it's always the same techniques, posting sarcastic pictures, making snide remarks about him indirectly and sometimes it's simple abuse.
Surely some of the off topic crap certain posters use to disrupt debates should be deleted?

We should form a committee to unambiguously define the necessary limitations of fun.

[Özim]

He's a blatant WUM and so was given short shrift. Get off your high horse.
Funny you should say that because aren't you the one that rarely posts anything of interest and never has any input into threads other than putting smiley faces and posting stupid pictures?

Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me, or anyone in fact.

[Özim]

But the "told you so" attitude doesn't seem to take into account the fact almost everyone has been smacking their heads over some of Wenger's policies. There aren't any 100% pro posters on this forum that I can see. The question is, in light of everything that has been happening at the club, taking all that into consideration, is it time for Wenger to go? 7 or 5 or even 3 years ago my answer would be no, because there was still a chance the stated objectives could materialise. Now we see fairly clearly it was a giant con designed to enrich a few individuals at the expense of the club as a whole.

In hindsight, a wonderful thing, protests should have started the day the foundations of the new stadium were driven. But back then most were caught up in this bullshit vision of us competing at the top, yes certainly in terms of the balance sheet but with the understanding the revenue generated would be poured onto the pitch. That's fairly enticing and seemed a reasonable progression for a club that was on the up. The fact a few clever bastards would hijack the whole vision didn't enter into my mind at the time. Can you really say it entered your head?

So all we really had to work with was the tumbleweed blowing across the transfer thread and the general weirdness of certain aspects of Wenger's management style. Offset that against a collection of nearly, maybe, if only seasons and backstop it with a remarkable track record from previous years and it's difficult to just say sack the manager. The fans were living in hope. What else is there when you have zero control or influence?
What I was looking at was what happened on the pitch to be honest and from where I was standing it wasn't pretty, I wasn't pleased with the style, tactics and more often than no signings.....none of these aspects were forced on Wenger.

At the same time the amount of excuses coming out of his mouth increased and we saw a belief in failing methods never before seen at a top club, a stubborn streak which compounded our problems by preventing Wenger adapting and making the necessary changes, however simply and clear to see.

Maybe he had restrictions, it doesn't excuse his performance on the pitch or indeed his signings, that same money used could have been used for better more suitable players, I guess the problem is those players maybe didn't do everything, they simply excelled at one or two apsects of play, which of course never satisfied Wenger.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I disagree with Zim RE: Redknapp but the way he's been hounded by certain posters (not just in this thread) is pathetic. And it's always the same techniques, posting sarcastic pictures, making snide remarks about him indirectly and sometimes it's simple abuse.
Surely some of the off topic crap certain posters use to disrupt debates should be deleted?

So its ok for him to Call Ollie a muppet, wum at him, call GP the Cringe king, but When they give i back to him were being abusive.

[Niall_Quinn]

What I was looking at was what happened on the pitch to be honest and from where I was standing it wasn't pretty, I wasn't pleased with the style, tactics and more often than no signings.....none of these aspects were forced on Wenger.

At the same time the amount of excuses coming out of his mouth increased and we saw a belief in failing methods never before seen at a top club, a stubborn streak which compounded our problems by preventing Wenger adapting and making the necessary changes, however simply and clear to see.

Maybe he had restrictions, it doesn't excuse his performance on the pitch or indeed his signings, that same money used could have been used for better more suitable players, I guess the problem is those players maybe didn't do everything, they simply excelled at one or two apsects of play, which of course never satisfied Wenger.

Well whoever was right or wrong and when they were right or wrong, whoever was half right and whoever changed their minds it would now seem prudent, following the whole board, manager, badge kissing player thing to treat them all as nothing much to do with us. They do their own thing without regard and that's certainly something that has been successfully developed over the 7 years - at all clubs. Not much of a club left here from what I can see but I'd struggle to blame that all on Wenger. I think everything has gone wrong with the game. Maybe that's all it is, the game changed around Wenger and he refused to change with it. Maybe it's no more complicated than that. As such he has to go then. But suggesting Redknapp as a replacement is not a slap at Wenger, which is probably what you have been trying to do, it is a slap at the club - our club I mean, the one we remember. So that's unacceptable for me. Wenger out I can entertain. Redknapp in is inconceivable long before I get anywhere near the football reasons, which I don't believe exist in his case anyway.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yeah it should but I don't remember you posting to say something similar the other day when Charlie was getting his posts taken down from numerous other posters.

One rule for one, and one for someone else.

[Boss]

Shocking levels of personal abuse on this thread. High quality debate :rose:

As for Redknapp, he's a shocking manager and would probably have us finish midtable and broke if he came to Arsenal but that still doesn't warrant the levels of abuse on this thread.

Expect better from GW's mods. :good:

[Özim]

So its ok for him to Call Ollie a muppet, wum at him, call GP the Cringe king, but When they give i back to him were being abusive.
Yeah let's be honest it started long before that.

As for GP, the biggest WUM in this place, it's practically all he does.

[Özim]

One rule for one, and one for someone else.
You're the one who kept goading me about finding evidence and wouldn't accept what you knew was true, Cripps found and because you kept at it so much we made a point of it.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

I'm more than aware of the slimebags at the top, I remember slating PHW many years ago and people telling me how he was a great man who did so much for the club and love it so dearly....I saw through it.

It doesn't change the fact Wenger has spent the money badly and enforced a ridiculous pay policy, his decision on the pitch have also been bizarre...and that's ignoring his unflappable belief in players which had never earnt the right to even play for us.

The board are a big problem as well no question, but Wenger takes as much of the blame for me, he could have done so much differently which would have given us a far better chance of success, he's been unwilling to and has continued to support failing methods despite the clear indications right in front of his eyes.

When you argue this way, I wholeheartedly agree with you. But wanting to replace Wenger with Redknapp is inconceivable lunacy.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yeah let's be honest it started long before that.

As for GP, the biggest WUM in this place, it's practically all he does.

Not having ago, but if were going to complain about one, then when it happens to someone else they should be treated the same.

[Joker]

He's a blatant WUM and so was given short shrift. Get off your high horse.

Just because he has an opinion that few others share doesn't make him a WUM. Im fact I remember Coney being a big Redknapp fan and he wasn't attacked because of it.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

:lol:

Yes he was.

[V-Pig]

Ah, Coney.

[Ollie the Optimist]

zimm - you said earlier in the thread (a couple of pages ago) that you started to see the problems in 2006. what problems could you see then? this confuses me, we had just made our first ever champions league final, had the best defence in europe! it was a pretty good season really. it was our first trophyless season for what, five years? hardly a season of shit given the acheivements of the others. how could you see problems then? it doesnt make sense, unless you felt entitled to a trophy after 5 years of them

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:lol:

Yes he was.

:haha:
Mods should just close this thread its getting embarressing now.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I think it's winding down anyway, plus I won't be on much for the weekend so I'd rather all the silliness was contained to one thread than spread everywhere on the forum. :d

[LDG]

I think it's winding down anyway, plus I won't be on much for the weekend so I'd rather all the silliness was contained to one thread than spread everywhere on the forum. :d

Sp*rs match thread then?

:(

:ilt:

[Letters]

Just because he has an opinion that few others share doesn't make him a WUM.
No, it's not that which makes him a WUM.


Im fact I remember Coney being a big Redknapp fan and he wasn't attacked because of it.

I don't know about attacked but I certainly picked him up on it because he used to bend the truth to breaking point - lauding 'Arry's 'achievements', dismissing his failures. Some people on here do the opposite about Wenger which is pretty WUMmish behaviour.

[Letters]

Expect better from GW's mods. :good:
We dealt with all the posts you reported

:coffee:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Sp*rs match thread then?

:(

:ilt:

:lol:

I'll have to look through it later regardless of result. :sick:

Although we'll win so it shouldn't be a problem.

[Marc Overmars]

:lol:

I'll have to look through it later regardless of result. :sick:

Although we'll win so it shouldn't be a problem.

I am shocked and saddened you won't be providing live updates.

[Letters]

So did you instantly decide he should go 7 years ago? I didn't and can't see why anyone else would? If anything I reckon his first 2-4 years at the Emirates provided him with monumental tasks and he did incredibly well to keep us as good as we were during that period.

Where I have problems is what has happened subsequently - he failed to build on what really was a transition period, so in my mind he has failed only for the past 3 years or so, and it has been obvious for a while now that he is not going to be able to turn it around.

To say he has failed for seven years is not giving any thought to the environment he has been working in - both externally with the introduction of silly money and internally, managing a top team while the Club underwent the largest unassisted capital infrastructure project in the history of Club football anywhere in the world.
:gp:

It's completely nonsensical to question or dismiss Wenger's achievements during the first half of his time with us.
He took over a club whose name was always prefixed with "boring boring" by opposition fans and, while being a decent cup side, were nowhere near good enough for a sustained title challenge. He changed them into one of the most exciting sides in PL history and, for a while, the best side in the country. His diet and fitness regime and knowledge of the European game were unrivalled and gave us an edge over other clubs. It's worth remembering that he took over in an era when the drinking culture was rife amongst players. Plenty of players from that era have credited Wenger with extending their careers.

A few things have happened since then:

Other clubs have caught up with the fitness regimes so we don't have that edge any more.

Other clubs now have worldwide scouting networks so it's harder to get good players before other clubs even know about them.

Billionaire owners have come in and completely distorted the transfer and wage market to obscene levels.

Arsenal have been hampered by poor commercial deals and an incredibly complex stadium move and building project which has left us less competitive in the short term but will hopefully be of long term benefit.

Despite all this Wenger kept us relatively competitive till a couple of years ago. To say it's 7 years of failure is just plain wrong - the only way you can justify that is if your only measure of success is trophies which is a very simplistic way of assessing things.

Wenger is failing now. Even if we do finish 4th (I still think somehow we will limp in there, everyone else around us is crap too), we're nowhere near the top 3 as a club of our resources should be. But to dismiss his achievements with us and claim it's 7 years of abject failure - right from the moment we last won a trophy - is just irrational.

[Letters]

I am shocked and saddened you won't be providing live updates.
GWers need to club together and get me a smart phone so I can post from the games.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I am shocked and saddened you won't be providing live updates.

My time has come and gone. Well for this weekend anyway.

[Özim]

zimm - you said earlier in the thread (a couple of pages ago) that you started to see the problems in 2006. what problems could you see then? this confuses me, we had just made our first ever champions league final, had the best defence in europe! it was a pretty good season really. it was our first trophyless season for what, five years? hardly a season of shit given the acheivements of the others. how could you see problems then? it doesnt make sense, unless you felt entitled to a trophy after 5 years of them
I didn't like the style of play, didn't like the fact we'd not replaced Vieira adequately (sure we had Fabregas but he was playmaker not an physical player like Vieira). That was just the start of the troubles of course.

[Kano]

GWers need to club together and get me a smart phone so I can post from the games.
or you need to get smarter.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I didn't like the style of play, didn't like the fact we'd not replaced Vieira adequately (sure we had Fabregas but he was playmaker not an physical player like Vieira). That was just the start of the troubles of course.

did the style of play really change that much? it was still the invincibles team pretty much that year minus viera.

[GP]

or you need to get smarter.

Letters was on his way to the smartphone store when he realised he had no smarts.

[Letters]

Letters was on his way to the smartphone store when he realised he had no smarts.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CNmWt9URJD4/0.jpg

[Özim]

It's completely nonsensical to question or dismiss Wenger's achievements during the first half of his time with us.
He took over a club whose name was always prefixed with "boring boring" by opposition fans and, while being a decent cup side, were nowhere near good enough for a sustained title challenge. He changed them into one of the most exciting sides in PL history and, for a while, the best side in the country. His diet and fitness regime and knowledge of the European game were unrivalled and gave us an edge over other clubs. It's worth remembering that he took over in an era when the drinking culture was rife amongst players. Plenty of players from that era have credited Wenger with extending their careers.

A few things have happened since then:

Other clubs have caught up with the fitness regimes so we don't have that edge any more.

Other clubs now have worldwide scouting networks so it's harder to get good players before other clubs even know about them.

Billionaire owners have come in and completely distorted the transfer and wage market to obscene levels.

Arsenal have been hampered by poor commercial deals and an incredibly complex stadium move and building project which has left us less competitive in the short term but will hopefully be of long term benefit.

Despite all this Wenger kept us relatively competitive till a couple of years ago. To say it's 7 years of failure is just plain wrong - the only way you can justify that is if your only measure of success is trophies which is a very simplistic way of assessing things.

Wenger is failing now. Even if we do finish 4th (I still think somehow we will limp in there, everyone else around us is crap too), we're nowhere near the top 3 as a club of our resources should be. But to dismiss his achievements with us and claim it's 7 years of abject failure - right from the moment we last won a trophy - is just irrational.
I'm not dismissing them just putting them into perspective, this is based on the fact that in 7 years he's managed no success at all....has he suddenly become a manager who can't succeed or is it that his early success was assisted greatly by the players involved at the time, with them acting as his generals on the pitch and being the driving force. The football was great yes and that was down to him, but I was really focussing on the success part more than anything.

I hear to excuses about billonaires time and time again, but in a sense we can ignore that and look at his performance, tactics, signings and decisions. If you analyse these over the last 7 years, it's pretty easy to spot the errors as there are plenty of them.

Here's just a few:
1) He not learnt anything from the mistakes that occur time and time again
2) He's not looked to change his transfer policy by going for more established players, sometimes available at a good price
3) He doesn't setup his teams based on the opposition (he's admitted he just thinks we should play our game)
4) He remained reliant on players who are injury prone and always injured
5) He's not managed to find solutions to problem areas like the defence
6) He's never replaced our departing stars adequately (rarely any signs of planning)
7) He's not learnt that this style of football only works with players of the highest calibre
8) He's made some incredibly odd decisions like for example dropping Arshavin for that FA Cup game
9) He's stuck with players who clearly aren't up to scratch for much too long

I don't see how a top manager can make so many errors so often and still be considered one and at the same time not have his previous achievements looked at more carefully.

[Özim]

did the style of play really change that much? it was still the invincibles team pretty much that year minus viera.
Yes, we went from our fast paced counter attacking to a slower paced passing game, it wasn't so apparent them but it was the beginning of the cycle of pass pass football.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I'm not dismissing them just putting them into perspective, this is based on the fact that in 7 years he's managed no success at all....has he suddenly become a manager who can't succeed or is it that his early success was assisted greatly by the players involved at the time, with them acting as his generals on the pitch and being the driving force. The football was great yes and that was down to him, but I was really focussing on the success part more than anything.

I hear to excuses about billonaires time and time again, but in a sense we can ignore that and look at his performance, tactics, signings and decisions. If you analyse these over the last 7 years, it's pretty easy to spot the errors as there are plenty of them.

Here's just a few:
1) He not learnt anything from the mistakes that occur time and time again
2) He's not looked to change his transfer policy by going for more established players, sometimes available at a good price
3) He doesn't setup his teams based on the opposition (he's admitted he just thinks we should play our game)
4) He remained reliant on players who are injury prone and always injured
5) He's not managed to find solutions to problem areas like the defence
6) He's never replaced our departing stars adequately
7) He's not learnt that this style of football just doesn't work with players of the highest calibre
8) He's made some incredibly odd decisions like for example dropping Arshavin for that FA Cup game
9) He's stuck with players who clearly aren't up to scratch for much too long

I don't see how a top manager can make so many errors so often and still be considered one and at the same time not have his previous achievements looked at more carefully.


i agree with tose points you make bar one, the one in bold because this year and last year he has changed, merts, santos, arteta, cazorla, podolski are not unknowns, he changed his transfer policy

[Özim]

i agree with tose points you make bar one, the one in bold because this year and last year he has changed, merts, santos, arteta, cazorla, podolski are not unknowns, he changed his transfer policy
I'll say that last summer was panic buying, we were left with nowhere to go and had to get whatever we could, so in that sense he was limited choice wise.

Maybe this summer was better, though point 6 applies to it.

[Letters]

I'm not dismissing them just putting them into perspective, this is based on the fact that in 7 years he's managed no success at all....Again, that is only true if your only definition of success is winning trophies. You said before you're not a glory hunter. I asked you at the tail end of last season if you'd swap our season (finishing 3rd after a somewhat bumpy journey) with Liverpool's (winning the Carling Cup, losing the FA Cup final, finishing mid-table) and you said you wouldn't. Nor would I. Their manager got sacked for it. Wenger's failure to land a single trophy for so long is damning but that doesn't mean the whole 7 years have been abject failure.

The Invincibles was a team of players pretty much entirely bought by Wenger. So yes, his early success was assisted by the players. All success is assisted by the players. They're the ones who achieve it! But Wenger built that squad, you can't dismiss that.

We can't ignore the billionaires because they have clearly changed football but they're not the only reason for our failure. I agree with a lot of your points but for all his failings we have stayed top 4 every year. You dismiss that (because you refuse to give Wenger credit for anything) but plenty of clubs have spent a lot more than us, in an era where money and success are highly correlated, and failed to unseat us.

You can scrutinise his past achievements if you like but the facts are he built a squad which was largely (towards the end almost entirely) his own which played some of the best football I've ever seen and won a load of trophies. You can't sensibly dump all the blame on him for our current malaise and deny him credit for previous achievements.

I do think it's fair to say he had better people around him back then, he needs better people around him now and maybe if he did that would be a better solution to our problems than replacing Wenger. IMO the biggest problem is that football has changed and Wenger hasn't. He hasn't adapted well enough to the challenges of the modern game.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I didn't like the style of play, didn't like the fact we'd not replaced Vieira adequately (sure we had Fabregas but he was playmaker not an physical player like Vieira). That was just the start of the troubles of course.

I get your point about Vieira. But i don't think Changing styles meant he should leave or it was a problem. This tippy tappy was some of the best footie we have seen in this country. And i even loved that fast counter attacking stuff.

We would have been silly to lose Wenger in 2006 just after we moved into the stadium. If someone else came in at that time, we'd be in a worse mess then we are now. Things only really got bad when we started selling of Cesc and Nasri, then Song and RVP this year. Apart from these 4 and maybe Henry i don't think we sold anybody that could not be replaced. The media reaction to selling players is worse then it is (apart from the 5 mentioned).

[Niall_Quinn]

I have to work today so can't post much. Could somebody keep the thread going until I get back? Thanks lads.

[Kano]

:haha:
Mods should just close this thread its getting embarressing now.
i agree.

we have a few hours before nq gets back from his afternoon tesco shift.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I have to work today so can't post much. Could somebody keep the thread going until I get back? Thanks lads.:wave:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I'm not dismissing them just putting them into perspective, this is based on the fact that in 7 years he's managed no success at all....has he suddenly become a manager who can't succeed or is it that his early success was assisted greatly by the players involved at the time, with them acting as his generals on the pitch and being the driving force. The football was great yes and that was down to him, but I was really focussing on the success part more than anything.

I hear to excuses about billonaires time and time again, but in a sense we can ignore that and look at his performance, tactics, signings and decisions. If you analyse these over the last 7 years, it's pretty easy to spot the errors as there are plenty of them.

Here's just a few:
1) He not learnt anything from the mistakes that occur time and time again
2) He's not looked to change his transfer policy by going for more established players, sometimes available at a good price
3) He doesn't setup his teams based on the opposition (he's admitted he just thinks we should play our game)
4) He remained reliant on players who are injury prone and always injured
5) He's not managed to find solutions to problem areas like the defence
6) He's never replaced our departing stars adequately (rarely any signs of planning)
7) He's not learnt that this style of football only works with players of the highest calibre
8) He's made some incredibly odd decisions like for example dropping Arshavin for that FA Cup game
9) He's stuck with players who clearly aren't up to scratch for much too long

I don't see how a top manager can make so many errors so often and still be considered one and at the same time not have his previous achievements looked at more carefully.

Cant not agree with a lot of those points. . .it does make things quite stark

[Maestro]

Well whoever was right or wrong and when they were right or wrong, whoever was half right and whoever changed their minds it would now seem prudent, following the whole board, manager, badge kissing player thing to treat them all as nothing much to do with us. They do their own thing without regard and that's certainly something that has been successfully developed over the 7 years - at all clubs. Not much of a club left here from what I can see but I'd struggle to blame that all on Wenger. I think everything has gone wrong with the game. Maybe that's all it is, the game changed around Wenger and he refused to change with it. Maybe it's no more complicated than that. As such he has to go then. But suggesting Redknapp as a replacement is not a slap at Wenger, which is probably what you have been trying to do, it is a slap at the club - our club I mean, the one we remember. So that's unacceptable for me. Wenger out I can entertain. Redknapp in is inconceivable long before I get anywhere near the football reasons, which I don't believe exist in his case anyway.

Zimm, hang in there ...some hard knocks being thrown your way on here!

I get you and so does NQ, above, we're all sick of Wenger's increased ineptness at his job and all the ****ery of the board which has led the club to this point. Everyone is just as dissapointed and upset, but we're on the same side here bro.

Pay heed to NQ's post above, let's argue, let's fight, let's debate, let's agree and disagree ...but at the end of the day we're all Arsenal here and this is our house. Bringing Harry into this, is tantamount to trying destroy our unity as a club, as fans and as friends on here. It is wishing hatred toward your own kind, has nothing to do with football comparison.

We are Arsenal and we hate Harry ...surely that is ingrained in your GW DNA somewhere?
I have nothing against you man, but Harry fuckin Redknapp??? ...that's a bit harsh on the club dude, really harsh :sulk:

[Ernesto]

I'm not dismissing them just putting them into perspective, this is based on the fact that in 7 years he's managed no success at all....has he suddenly become a manager who can't succeed or is it that his early success was assisted greatly by the players involved at the time, with them acting as his generals on the pitch and being the driving force. The football was great yes and that was down to him, but I was really focussing on the success part more than anything.

I hear to excuses about billonaires time and time again, but in a sense we can ignore that and look at his performance, tactics, signings and decisions. If you analyse these over the last 7 years, it's pretty easy to spot the errors as there are plenty of them.

Here's just a few:
1) He not learnt anything from the mistakes that occur time and time again
2) He's not looked to change his transfer policy by going for more established players, sometimes available at a good price
3) He doesn't setup his teams based on the opposition (he's admitted he just thinks we should play our game)
4) He remained reliant on players who are injury prone and always injured
5) He's not managed to find solutions to problem areas like the defence
6) He's never replaced our departing stars adequately (rarely any signs of planning)
7) He's not learnt that this style of football only works with players of the highest calibre
8) He's made some incredibly odd decisions like for example dropping Arshavin for that FA Cup game
9) He's stuck with players who clearly aren't up to scratch for much too long

I don't see how a top manager can make so many errors so often and still be considered one and at the same time not have his previous achievements looked at more carefully.

:gp:

Very well written. Would get even the most ardent Wenger-ites thinking!

[Maestro]

I'm not dismissing them just putting them into perspective, this is based on the fact that in 7 years he's managed no success at all....has he suddenly become a manager who can't succeed or is it that his early success was assisted greatly by the players involved at the time, with them acting as his generals on the pitch and being the driving force. The football was great yes and that was down to him, but I was really focussing on the success part more than anything.

I hear to excuses about billonaires time and time again, but in a sense we can ignore that and look at his performance, tactics, signings and decisions. If you analyse these over the last 7 years, it's pretty easy to spot the errors as there are plenty of them.

Here's just a few:
1) He not learnt anything from the mistakes that occur time and time again
2) He's not looked to change his transfer policy by going for more established players, sometimes available at a good price
3) He doesn't setup his teams based on the opposition (he's admitted he just thinks we should play our game)
4) He remained reliant on players who are injury prone and always injured
5) He's not managed to find solutions to problem areas like the defence
6) He's never replaced our departing stars adequately (rarely any signs of planning)
7) He's not learnt that this style of football only works with players of the highest calibre
8) He's made some incredibly odd decisions like for example dropping Arshavin for that FA Cup game
9) He's stuck with players who clearly aren't up to scratch for much too long

I don't see how a top manager can make so many errors so often and still be considered one and at the same time not have his previous achievements looked at more carefully.

:good: This Zimm ..and not Harry.

You're bang on the money with all those points, and that there is more than enough grounds for sacking Wenger

Just to back up your points 4) & 9), (Campbell & Miyachi excused) here's fresh graveyard that reads RIP:
Arshavin - £80,000 , Chamakh - £50,000, Denilson - £50,000, Bendtner - £52,000, Squillaci - £60,000, Park - £40,000, Djourou - £50,000, Diaby - £50,000, Rosicky - £60,000, Santos - £50,000....yes people, that is a whole team (10) of ghost workers on the payroll but listed as first team players. They are effectively not working at or for the club ..contributing nothing, but what is the combined wage packet here and can this not be better deployed.

More than anything, that what really winds me up about Wenger. Preaching austerity and financial prudence ..lorded as some sort of economic guru, but at the same time pocketing £6/7m a year ...then sign and keep those players on the dole at that rate of real financial loss. This needs to be investigated quite frankly

[Niall_Quinn]

Squillaci - £60,000

Nah. Made up amount surely? Unless some of our players are money laundering operations. Would explain Park and Ramsey.

[Maestro]

Squillaci - £60,000

Nah. Made up amount surely? Unless some of our players are money laundering operations. Would explain Park and Ramsey.

I can do better than quote, I have seen it. A lot of them are on some merchandising & sponsorship cut albeit it small amount but paid offshore as pension contributions, some masked as life insurance and loyalty bonuses it's incredable when you see the full picture ...win bonuses and appearances, which Wenger has managed to keep low by simply not playing the players and or players just being shit ...otherwise the weekly spending would hit the roof

It is unreal I tell you, cannot reveal more though .. I may have said too much already, bread is buttered n' all that

[IBK]

:good: This Zimm ..and not Harry.

You're bang on the money with all those points, and that there is more than enough grounds for sacking Wenger

Just to back up your points 4) & 9), (Campbell & Miyachi excused) here's fresh graveyard that reads RIP:
Arshavin - £80,000 , Chamakh - £50,000, Denilson - £50,000, Bendtner - £52,000, Squillaci - £60,000, Park - £40,000, Djourou - £50,000, Diaby - £50,000, Rosicky - £60,000, Santos - £50,000....yes people, that is a whole team (10) of ghost workers on the payroll but listed as first team players. They are effectively not working at or for the club ..contributing nothing, but what is the combined wage packet here and can this not be better deployed.

More than anything, that what really winds me up about Wenger. Preaching austerity and financial prudence ..lorded as some sort of economic guru, but at the same time pocketing £6/7m a year ...then sign and keep those players on the dole at that rate of real financial loss. This needs to be investigated quite frankly

And for me, its not even the original signings (although with a couple of exceptions you have to wonder if we paid them more than the going rate), Its the refusal to admit when he is wrong, and cut loose. After all, he doesn't seem to have the problem with our best players!

[Özim]

Again, that is only true if your only definition of success is winning trophies. You said before you're not a glory hunter. I asked you at the tail end of last season if you'd swap our season (finishing 3rd after a somewhat bumpy journey) with Liverpool's (winning the Carling Cup, losing the FA Cup final, finishing mid-table) and you said you wouldn't. Nor would I. Their manager got sacked for it. Wenger's failure to land a single trophy for so long is damning but that doesn't mean the whole 7 years have been abject failure.

The Invincibles was a team of players pretty much entirely bought by Wenger. So yes, his early success was assisted by the players. All success is assisted by the players. They're the ones who achieve it! But Wenger built that squad, you can't dismiss that.

We can't ignore the billionaires because they have clearly changed football but they're not the only reason for our failure. I agree with a lot of your points but for all his failings we have stayed top 4 every year. You dismiss that (because you refuse to give Wenger credit for anything) but plenty of clubs have spent a lot more than us, in an era where money and success are highly correlated, and failed to unseat us.

You can scrutinise his past achievements if you like but the facts are he built a squad which was largely (towards the end almost entirely) his own which played some of the best football I've ever seen and won a load of trophies. You can't sensibly dump all the blame on him for our current malaise and deny him credit for previous achievements.

I do think it's fair to say he had better people around him back then, he needs better people around him now and maybe if he did that would be a better solution to our problems than replacing Wenger. IMO the biggest problem is that football has changed and Wenger hasn't. He hasn't adapted well enough to the challenges of the modern game.
Let me rephrase that then, 7 years without a trophy for a club like us is IMO failure, it's not all about trophies but we should have picked up one or two in that time. Ignoring the trophies though, I'm not pleased about what I've seen, the blatant errors, refusal to adapt and make the necessary changes and the frustrating and often tedious style of football, in addition to that the fact whenever we play big teams at the business end of the season we pretty know we've lost before we've started, there's no "can we", "could it happen", "can we upset the odds", we already know we've lost because his teams have no desire, no fight, no unpredictability.....where's the joy in being resigned to losing everytime?

Yes the invicibles were bought by Wenger, but let me put it out there that they learnt how to win from the players which Wenger inherited, the Adams's, Keowns, Seaman's, Bergkamp......Wenger didn't teach them that, we've seen what happens when players like that aren't around, weak mentality, no bottle for the fight, no genuine desire to succeed and prove themselves.

Like I said about the billionaires, there's things we could have done which would have made us far more competitive even with this big money around, as for the top 4 achievements, it deserves some credit of course (though I have sometimes wondered how we have got 4th and at times things just seem to have gone our way, I'm thinking 2006 and last season in particular).

I personally get very little pleasure from being top 4 as IMO as I alluded to above we just make up the numbers in the CL and don't actually have any chance of success against the bigger teams. The other problem with being top 4 is that there's no incentive to improve for us it seems, the money rolls in everyone gets their share and so it's all good.

My points about Wenger however were simply analysing his overall performance, I listed those because they're clear for everyone to see and wondered how a top manager can still be considered so when he makes what are elementary errors on a regular basis without learning from them.

[Boss]

It is impossible for Wenger to compete in this current climate so he prefers to do what we can (finish 4th, or in last season's case 3rd) while keeping the club's finances in order. He is rewarded for that, to be fair, with his 7M contract but personally I believe he's doing a much harder job than every other manager in the league so fair enough.

The on pitch problems, while there are exaggerated, despite them we're still able to finish above most other teams, most of which with a net spend that dwarfs ours. ManU fans bitch about their CM pairing when they don't win games, Chelsea complain about their strikers when they don't score and so on. The difference is Wenger has to have a far lesser failure rate than they do to compete. It would be difficult/impossible for us to write off a 25M Veron, a 27M Dzeko or a 50M Torres so we don't bother. The wages are another issue but I'd wager most players see a positive contribution to the club taking their transfer fee and wages into account, probably even a profit which is why we make money every year despite our poor commercial deals.

Although I think we could do a lot better we could also do a lot worse (Chelsea league position last year, Liverpool and Spurs despite some extravagant spending). I don't think it's possible to compete with the top three unless we spunk a lot of money on doing so, something which isn't feasible. I've brought up examples of Montpellier and Dortmund in the past but that's in a league with only one real top level team, both of which were going through a slump at the time. Just as how it's impossible for Stoke etc to challenge for the CL places, it's impossible for us to win the league the way it is as they're too many teams with an insurmountable advantage over us (just as there are in Spain or Italy). If FFP comes into play we will be able to compete, until then Wenger is doing the best the club can.

[GP]

You know shit is real when The Boss has the best post on the thread.

[Niall_Quinn]

I can do better than quote, I have seen it. A lot of them are on some merchandising & sponsorship cut albeit it small amount but paid offshore as pension contributions, some masked as life insurance and loyalty bonuses it's incredable when you see the full picture ...win bonuses and appearances, which Wenger has managed to keep low by simply not playing the players and or players just being shit ...otherwise the weekly spending would hit the roof

It is unreal I tell you, cannot reveal more though .. I may have said too much already, bread is buttered n' all that

Regardless, 60k a year for squillaci just shows how stupid football as become.

[Özim]

Regardless, 60k a year for squillaci just shows how stupid football as become.
I'd say it shows how stupid we've become, noone in their right minds would pay him that, no top club would have signed him in the 1st place to be honest.

[Boss]

We dealt with all the posts you reported

:coffee:

I wouldn't have expected posts with little/no football content and posters calling others retards/bitches etc needing to be reported but since you've asked it's been done. :good:

[Niall_Quinn]

I wouldn't have expected posts with little/no football content and posters calling others retards/bitches etc needing to be reported but since you've asked it's been done. :good:

http://www.knittingforums.org.uk/

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Time to close this thread me thinks.

Kintting :haha:

[Maestro]

http://www.knittingforums.org.uk/

haha, they have a Random Knitting Stuff thread

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://www.knittingforums.org.uk/

:haha:

Who is up for joining?

[Niall_Quinn]

haha, they have a Random Knitting Stuff thread

And a what are you knitting right now thread

[Maestro]

Time to close this thread me thinks.

Kintting :haha:

Redknapp ...it never ends well with him

[Niall_Quinn]

And a knitters against Wenger thread

[Xhaka Can’t]

90

[Maestro]

And a what are you knitting right now thread

so joining that forum - "on a tea cosy right now"

[Niall_Quinn]

:haha:

Who is up for joining?

Can I call people a **** on there?

[Maestro]

90

cute GB, cute

[Kano]

there has to be a thread thread surely

[Maestro]

Can I call people a **** on there?

got a funny feeling they will take it well on there, what with winter round the corner n' all ..threads on fire

[Niall_Quinn]

there has to be a thread thread surely

I'd be in stitches if there was.

[Niall_Quinn]

got a funny feeling they will take it well on there, what with winter round the corner n' all ..threads on fire

No harm giving it a go I suppose.

[Kano]

I'd be in stitches if there was.
all tied up in knots eh?

[Xhaka Can’t]

91

NQ's new hat

[Niall_Quinn]

all tied up in knots eh?

You're starting to needle me.

[Kano]

You're starting to needle me.
you knit wit.

[Niall_Quinn]

you knit wit.

Darn good answer.

[Kano]

no pulling the wool over your eyes i see

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Redknapp ...it never ends well with him

Pretty much.

[Niall_Quinn]

no pulling the wool over your eyes i see

I know when I'm being stitched up.

[Maestro]

"Hello and welcome!

We have all sorts of knitters here, from absolute beginners to seasoned ones, so don't be afraid to ask any questions! There's no such thing as a dumb question, and there's no knitting police"

you're kidding, no mods?

[Maestro]

I know when I'm being stitched up.

sewn that one up then i see

[Niall_Quinn]

"Hello and welcome!

We have all sorts of knitters here, from absolute beginners to seasoned ones, so don't be afraid to ask any questions! There's no such thing as a dumb question, and there's no knitting police"

you're kidding, no mods?

How do they keep things on topic in there? Crazy Internet, it's out of control.

[Niall_Quinn]

sewn that one up then i see

Put a zip in it!

[Maestro]

Put a zip in it!

oh just button up NQ

[PGFC]

At last some purls of wisdom on this thread.:good:

[Master Splinter]

You've all strung this out long enough.

[Maestro]

How do they keep things on topic in there? Crazy Internet, it's out of control.

they tie up and hem the loose threads i would guess

[Kano]

time to close the thread

[Maestro]

You've all strung this out long enough.

bLame harry fo this MS

[GP]

lol, knitting.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

time to close the thread

Yep

[Xhaka Can’t]

http://www.knittingforums.org.uk/yarn-rants/

NQ, you know what to do.

[PGFC]

look you can knit your own Zimm...

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00535/SNN2106AN_280_535249a.jpg

[Xhaka Can’t]

:haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

lol, knitting.

Reported :coffee:

[Kano]

Yep
no it was a...i mean...sigh

[Maestro]

look you can knit your own Zimm...

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00535/SNN2106AN_280_535249a.jpg



:haha:

spun it's last yarn for sure

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.knittingforums.org.uk/yarn-rants/

NQ, you know what to do.

Stupid forum, registration date of birth only goes back to 1921.

[Maestro]

:haha:

oh perry you gone and done it now,...and btw where the fuck did you find that. i mean what the fuck did you type in your search??????wtf

[Niall_Quinn]

:haha:

oh perry you gone and done it now,...and btw where the fuck did you find that. i mean what the fuck did you type in your search??????wtf

There's an app for looking up Hitlers made from wool. Surprised you haven't heard of it.

[PGFC]

I was looking for a knitted Arsene Wenger doll, honest.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

no it was a...i mean...sigh

I knew that, just that this Thread needs to be sown up and put away for good tbh.

[Maestro]

I was looking for a knitted Arsene Wenger doll, honest.

careful you end up on the knitted doll offenders register

[PGFC]

I was looking for a knitted Arsene Wenger doll, honest.


careful you end up on the knitted doll offenders register

They'll never crochet me :ninja:

[Xhaka Can’t]

They'll never crochet me :ninja:

http://static.lockerz.com/decalz/mobile/image00133735567009955y2fe.jpg

[IBK]

http://static.lockerz.com/decalz/mobile/image00133735567009955y2fe.jpg

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

:gp:

:gp:

[Maestro]

:rose:

RIP Harry Redknapp ...reduced to knitting on GW 14/11/12

[Olivier's xmas twist]

/Thread.

[Niall_Quinn]

:rose:

RIP Harry Redknapp ...reduced to knitting on GW 14/11/12

To be fair, knitting was the good stuff.

[Niall_Quinn]

Fair to say the OPs thread unravelled.

[Letters]

I wish Coney were alive to see this :rose:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Ahhh 'young' Coney. . .Flavs would have added another 45 pages to this thread. . .small mercies :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Ahhh 'young' Coney. . .Flavs would have added another 45 pages to this thread. . .small mercies :bow:

Flavs :haha:

Bullied out of here by.....

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

flavs :lol:

wasn't he the guy who invented that terrible fantasy football game?

i remember him :rose:

another classic case of wengeritis getting the best of posters :rose:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

flavs :lol:

wasn't he the guy who invented that terrible fantasy football game?

i remember him :rose:

another classic case of wengeritis getting the best of posters :rose:

I know Ach took over, not sure what happend with that though.

[Kano]

so that flavs guy has gone? what happened to him then?

[Letters]

so that flavs guy has gone? what happened to him then?
He's still crying after 72389759869162 gabillion years.

Uhuh

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I know Ach took over, not sure what happend with that though.

Flavs is Still doing it. . .he sends mails out to those interested. . .I won it last year, second this yay

Guess whos top. . .Flavs :bow:

[Ollie the Optimist]

after yesterdays result, do we now start calling for villas boas to replace wenger?

[GP]

after yesterdays result, do we now start calling for villas boas to replace wenger?

Rather him than Crooknapp.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'd be happy if we didn't resurrect this tripe.

[GP]

Close da ting

[LDG]

Hahahaha!

I would if i could!

Bitch!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Harry Redknapp wanted by Ukraine for national team role

Ukraine want former Tottenham Hotspur manager Harry Redknapp to take charge of the national team, according to a statement on the federation's website.

Ukrainian Football Federation (FFU) officials met on Tuesday to discuss appointing Redknapp to replace Oleg Blokhin, who left for Dynamo Kiev.

FFU official Mikhail Fomenko said Redknapp was an ideal replacement.

"He has lots of experience, coaching talent and knows how to motivate," he said. "In whatever team he led Redknapp very quickly improved the quality of the play and achieved significant progress.

"Today he is an expert in the game and one of the best English coaches."

Ukraine had sought to appoint striker Andriy Shevchenko but have now turned their attention to Redknapp after the former Chelsea and AC Milan player said it was a "premature step" for him.

"The presidium took the decision to begin talks with Redknapp's representatives relating to him working in the post of chief coach of the national Ukraine team," added the FFU statement.

Redknapp, 65, was sacked by Spurs in June after almost four years in charge.

He was heavily linked with the England national team as a successor to previous coach Fabio Capello, who resigned in February, before Roy Hodgson's appointment.

Redknapp returned to League One club Bournemouth, the club he managed for nine years from 1983 to 1992, in an advisory capacity in September but is thought to be no longer at the club.

Ukraine sit in fifth place in their 2014 World Cup qualifying group, with two points from three games.

They are 55th in Fifa's world rankings.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20416034

/Thread.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20416034

/Thread.

guess it really does pay to be a media darling.