Wenger's legacy - has it held us back

[IBK]

There is a lot of talk, even now, form well-meaning Gooners as to how we are disrespecting the manager by failing to acknowledge how much he has done for AFC.

But if you really think about it, the fact that he has gone on so long with a clearly flawed football model is the biggest acknowledgment of his legacy that there is. Its not the 7 years without a trophy that's the issue. Its the 7 years of seeing the same problems with our game, 7 years of seeing football played without drive or urgency, 7 years where we have been patient, and even hoped to see progression - but have been disappointed again and again.

Wenger achieved great things, but in terms of our football success, he should have left 3 years ago, with the stadium project played out and the club still competitive (in context).

I can understand why, but Wenger has traded off his reputation and legacy for too long now. He and the footballing world should acknowledge that with our patience, Gooners have shown him complete respect. If we are not showing it so much now, its because we feel disillusioned and sad that our confidence has been displaced.

Thoughts?

[gooners]

He is makiing the board money --- until he isn't, he is staying put. The board's loyalty is not towards the fans but towards the value of their shares vis a vis Wenger :good:

[Niall_Quinn]

He is makiing the board money --- until he isn't, he is staying put. The board's loyalty is not towards the fans but towards the value of their shares vis a vis Wenger :good:

That's it. Wenger would of course argue he's been very successful because 4th place is success at this club. PHW's parting comment at the last audience with the Arsenal royalty spelled it out very clearly.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

And the bar will even be lowered with Platini's most shrewd and astute plans for the game.

Easier to come 7th than 4th. Board still make a bucket load thus being kept happy.

Wengbot :bow:

Will die still being Arsenal manager

[Syn]

I feel a bit stupid for thinking Wenger had some altruistic qualities. In reality, he has shown himself not to be an Arsenal man...and why would he be? He's French with no childhood memories of being taken to games or following Arsenal. This is just a job for him - and fair play, he earns a lot of money. I don't feel he deserves to be treated with the respect. Effing and jeffing won't help but I just think nothing of him now. He's another suit.

[Gervinho's Forehead]

I feel a bit stupid for thinking Wenger had some altruistic qualities. In reality, he has shown himself not to be an Arsenal man...and why would he be? He's French with no childhood memories of being taken to games or following Arsenal. This is just a job for him - and fair play, he earns a lot of money. I don't feel he deserves to be treated with the respect. Effing and jeffing won't help but I just think nothing of him now. He's another suit.

This is it. Mr Arsenal isn't Mr Arsenal at all. He doesn't love the club, if he did he'd have gone a couple of seasons ago.

[gooners]

This is it. Mr Arsenal isn't Mr Arsenal at all. He doesn't love the club, if he did he'd have gone a couple of seasons ago.

love is complicated...

[Özim]

Have no respect for the guy, why should I he has no respect for the fans and treats them like idiots.

I feel he's been allowed to live on past glories for far too long and hasn't had to continue earning respect due to the success in his early days. I can't respect a man who blindly follows a path to failure and never tries to change direction.

[Özim]

This is it. Mr Arsenal isn't Mr Arsenal at all. He doesn't love the club, if he did he'd have gone a couple of seasons ago.
If he loved the club he'd want it to be the best and have success to be honest, the fact he things 4th place is great and good enough is insulting.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I acknowledge the good he has done but it is more important to look to the future and acknowledge that his era was in the past.

[IBK]

I feel a bit stupid for thinking Wenger had some altruistic qualities. In reality, he has shown himself not to be an Arsenal man...and why would he be? He's French with no childhood memories of being taken to games or following Arsenal. This is just a job for him - and fair play, he earns a lot of money. I don't feel he deserves to be treated with the respect. Effing and jeffing won't help but I just think nothing of him now. He's another suit.

I think you sum things up well. the discontent that is being seen now is disillusionment as much as anything else.

[IBK]

From Another Arsenal Blog today


As a one off today would have been just that, but in the context of the season so far and recent seasons, we are seeing a worrying trend, a sad demise, a great manager reaching the end of the road and a team that is failing on many levels on a repeated basis. Recent performances against Swansea, Villa, Everton, Manu, Schalke, Fulham and Norwich have been concerning, to say the least.

We lack quality and certain attributes in the squad, however the players we have are still not as bad as recent performances would suggest. The most worrying thing in my eyes is that Arsene is not managing the players well. Our formation and tactics are tired and predictable. Teams have worked us out, we lack an attacking cutting edge, we are poorly organised in terms of the team's whole defensive shape and we are tactically naive. The sum of our parts is mediocre, and this is not good enough given the size of the club and our expenditure in terms of wages.

I am not angry, I am just sad at what we have become and how our manager has lost the plot. There is little more to say. The end of the road is not a pleasant place to be, I have massive respect for the manager but it is obvious that he does not have long left at the helm. Finally great credit to Swansea who are an excellent side and thoroughly deserved the win today.

Very good summary, I think.

[Syn]

I think you sum things up well. the discontent that is being seen now is disillusionment as much as anything else.

I don't know where you draw the line, but it has to be well before selling your captain to Man Utd. I wonder if there is anything Wenger won't do for his share of the pie. Even if he only treats this as a job, how can you respect a man that can't stand up to his employers after 16 years of service?

Wenger has no breaking point and will continue to carry out humilating tasks as long as money is thrown his way. He's a sell-out and a pussy and he needs to fuck off.

[IBK]

From Le Grove


How, in the name of Bergkamp, can we not have a squad with enough depth when we’re shelling out a wage bill 11% short of United’s.

The signs are there. Wenger is floundering.

[IBK]

I don't know where you draw the line, but it has to be well before selling your captain to Man Utd. I wonder if there is anything Wenger won't do for his share of the pie. Even if he only treats this as a job, how can you respect a man that can't stand up to his employers after 16 years of service? Wenger has no breaking point and will continue to carry out humilating tasks as long as money is thrown his way. He's a sell-out and a pussy and he needs to fuck off.

IMHO its Wenger calling the shots. Not the board. Why would the Wenger that achieved the good things that he achieved in the early years allow the board to tarnish his legacy. The board might be complicit, but the responsibility is Wenger's.

[Syn]

IMHO its Wenger calling the shots. Not the board. Why would the Wenger that achieved the good things that he achieved in the early years allow the board to tarnish his legacy. The board might be complicit, but the responsibility is Wenger's.

Nah, come on, as much as we like to joke about 'footballing reasons', nobody can think selling Van Persie, the best player in the league by far, to a team you're hoping to cut the gap, can be a good idea.

We are currently that episode of the Simpsons where Homer is Mr. Burns' monkey. Arsene Simpson IMO.

[IBK]

Nah, come on, as much as we like to joke about 'footballing reasons', nobody can think selling Van Persie, the best player in the league by far, to a team you're hoping to cut the gap, can be a good idea.

We are currently that episode of the Simpsons where Homer is Mr. Burns' monkey. Arsene Simpson IMO.

So why does Wenger stay? Honestly. Why not fuck off to PSG? I honestly can't understand why a proud, stubborn man, who can say that he is the best we have had, would put up with being undermined. I mean its not as though its a money thing. What is Wenger's motivation if he is being manipulated?

[Gervinho's Forehead]

So why does Wenger stay? Honestly. Why not fuck off to PSG? I honestly can't understand why a proud, stubborn man, who can say that he is the best we have had, would put up with being undermined. I mean its not as though its a money thing. What is Wenger's motivation if he is being manipulated?

I believe never quitting a contract also has something to do with it.

[IBK]

I believe never quitting a contract also has something to do with it.

But he signed his contract in 2010! hardly flush then.

[Gervinho's Forehead]

But he signed his contract in 2010! hardly flush then.

But the current on runs until 2014 though.

[Marc Overmars]

He's become a parody of himself and tainted his legacy.

[Grebbo]

Wenger has lower quality players than he used to have when we were good.

It's as simple as that.

He isn't any less of a manager now then he was in 1998.

The team HE created has been gutted. Cesc, RVP, Nasri etc all sold year after year. NO manager in the world could cope with that year after year and would have fucked off as soon as we didn't pay Ashley Cole what we promised him. Wenger is a great man and manager. The players are not so great. He's not a miracle worker.

He should have walked years ago and I'm sure he wishes that he did.

[Gervinho's Forehead]

Wenger has lower quality players than he used to have when we were good.

It's as simple as that.

He isn't any less of a manager now then he was in 1998.

The team HE created has been gutted. Cesc, RVP, Nasri etc all sold year after year. NO manager in the world could cope with that year after year and would have fucked off as soon as we didn't pay Ashley Cole what we promised him. Wenger is a great man and manager. The players are not so great. He's not a miracle worker.

He should have walked years ago and I'm sure he wishes that he did.

So basically Wenger is a fraud and has ridden on the previous success of graham and rioch.

[Grebbo]

So basically Wenger is a fraud and has ridden on the previous success of graham and rioch.

Er no, he built some great teams but all the good or great players were sold and replaced with average players.

It's nothing more than chronic underinvestment.

No manager in the world would have got Arsenal higher than 3rd last season.

[Gervinho's Forehead]

Er no, he built some great teams but all the good or great players were sold and replaced with average players.

It's nothing more than chronic underinvestment.

No manager in the world would have got Arsenal higher than 3rd last season.

But honestly it's how bad the relationship with Wenger has become, that I and many others are question the whole of his tenure. These are sad times we're in.

I do think the question of him riding on the success or Graham and Rioch is valid one, for the team he inherited.

[Özim]

Er no, he built some great teams but all the good or great players were sold and replaced with average players.

It's nothing more than chronic underinvestment.

No manager in the world would have got Arsenal higher than 3rd last season.
He's the one that replaced them so I suggest it's poor player selection from him.

As for selling players, RVP pretty much said he left due to the clubs policies, Wenger is part and parcel of that....in addition the mismanagement on the pitch is shocking, poor tactics, poor substitutions, clear evidence of poor coaching and today he blames tiredness when his opponents have played the same amount recently.

He needs to look at himself in the mirror, Swansea have spent much less than us and yet played us off the park and it's not the 1st time this season a club who have spent less have beaten us.

There's plenty of managers that would get this lot playing far better and with far more hunger, his performance has been nothing short of awful.

10 out of 10 for his antics on the sidelines though, he should become a ballerina cos a top manager he certainly isn't.

[Özim]

But honestly it's how bad the relationship with Wenger has become, that I and many others are question the whole of his tenure. These are sad times we're in.

I do think the question of him riding on the success or Graham and Rioch is valid one, for the team he inherited.
Totally agree, his 1st team was based on Graham's defence, Parlour's work rate and Bergkamp's brilliance, Wenger found some top players to bring in but he needed those other players, we've seen the state of the defence when there's noone to organise it.

His 2nd team pretty learnt everything they new from the players signed by other managers (to be fair some of the players he brought in also were involved in this, but I'm convinced the like of Adams and co helped instill this mentality in those players anyhow), they inherited the winning mentality and learnt from winners. He's now built a team from scratch and we've seen the results.

Football isn't all about talent, there's the mental side which plays a big part, the belief, desire and winning mentality.

[Gervinho's Forehead]

Totally agree, his 1st team was based on Graham's defence, Parlour's work rate and Bergkamp's brilliance, Wenger found some top players to bring in but he needed those other players, we've seen the state of the defence when there's noone to organise it.

His 2nd team pretty learnt everything they new from the players signed by other managers (to be fair some of the players he brought in also were involved in this, but I'm convinced the like of Adams and co helped instill this mentality in those players anyhow), they inherited the winning mentality and learnt from winners. He's now built a team from scratch and we've seen the results.

Side note, it was Rioch who signed Bergkamp which is why I mention him. But yes the solid back defence was all from Graham and the winning mentality.

I will still remember the 49ers he had something special with that sqaud (this I don't think anyone can deny) But it's clear now those players knew what had to be done without having to be managed.

[Marc Overmars]

Side note, it was Rioch who signed Bergkamp which is why I mention him. But yes the solid back defence was all from Graham and the winning mentality.

I will still remember the 49ers he had something special with that sqaud (this I don't think anyone can deny) But it's clear now those players knew what had to be done without having to be managed.

Difference is those players weren't told 4th place is an achievement to be proud of.

[Özim]

Side note, it was Rioch who signed Bergkamp which is why I mention him. But yes the solid back defence was all from Graham and the winning mentality.

I will still remember the 49ers he had something special with that sqaud (this I don't think anyone can deny) But it's clear now those players knew what had to be done without having to be managed.
Yeah though some will claim Wenger signed him :rolleyes:

Yeah I agree, but I think they learnt a lot from Adams and co on that score, those guys had an amazing desire and will to win, that's how they picked up trophies against the odds under Graham. The learning process ended when we dismantled the team as quickly as we did, none of the young players had time to learn anything.

[Gervinho's Forehead]

Difference is those players weren't told 4th place is an achievement to be proud of.

Very true :(

It's another one of Wengers sound bites that gets repeated every week for comic affect. What's worse is I don't think he thought there was anything wrong with saying it!

[Injury Time]

Football isn't all about talent, there's the mental side which plays a big part, the belief, desire and winning mentality.
Good job we don't have a cheese eating surrender monkey in charge then...ah shit

[Özim]

I can't believe people persist to excuse the guy who has been totally shown up and time after time has been seen making baffling decisions noone in their right minds would make.

Or is that the boards fault as well?

[Power n Glory]

Wenger has lower quality players than he used to have when we were good.

It's as simple as that.

He isn't any less of a manager now then he was in 1998.

The team HE created has been gutted. Cesc, RVP, Nasri etc all sold year after year. NO manager in the world could cope with that year after year and would have fucked off as soon as we didn't pay Ashley Cole what we promised him. Wenger is a great man and manager. The players are not so great. He's not a miracle worker.

He should have walked years ago and I'm sure he wishes that he did.

Has the stadard dropped so low that we can't beat teams like Swansea and Norwich? I disagree with that. Even if we don't have a team that can challenge for the title, we shouldn't look so toothless against certain teams each year and we should have at least won a domestic cup by now.

Wenger is supposed to be one of the elite mangers and even if he had players that were on the same level as Swansea players or lower, he should still come out on top because he's supposed to be the more skilled manager. He is supposed to be of the elite class and it's why he gets paid so much. This is like seeing Hamilton or Alonso go head to head against a Force India or HRT driver and constantly getting beat. Our manager and team should be miles ahead of these guys. It's a disgrace and right now it looks like Wenger is no better than guys like Hughes, Mancini and Di Matteo...pay cheaque managers that need super star players to get results. Wenger might as well have moved to PSG and joined a super rich club where he can buy who he wants. He's not cut out to manage us and we don't want him anymore.

[Xhaka Can’t]

But honestly it's how bad the relationship with Wenger has become, that I and many others are question the whole of his tenure. These are sad times we're in.

I do think the question of him riding on the success or Graham and Rioch is valid one, for the team he inherited.

I feel the same way about Wenger as I felt about GG towards the end of his tenure. I've still got programme notes with Graham regularly stating that he was in the market for players but wasn't going to spend money on players that weren't any better than the ones we already had - does this sound familiar to anyone?

Don't get me wrong, but I loved GG and look back on what he achieved and how he achieved success with us with pride. But football moved on and GG did not and we progressively got worse and more and more uncompetitive - even with the great quality of the back four and a lethal striker.

I wanted GG out at that point - so it seems did the Board, but they were spineless bastards that used football bungs that were an endemic throughout football and an established part of the culture to hang him out to dry. The Board then were complete and utter ****s.

As for Rioch - what can anyone say? It looks like it was always the intention for him to be an interim Manager - what other rationale can there be for what happened? The treatment of Rioch was also compounded by the behaviour of Wright who publically treated Rioch with contempt and there were rumours that Wright even complained directly to Rioch's bosses about him.

Wenger didn't ride on anyone's success, he built on it beyond anyone's dreams to create a team that simply blew people's minds away delivering the type of success and football no one alive today has ever seen before at Arsenal.

But that was back in the day when he did innovative things such as invest in top top quality players. I don't see him ever doing that again, and just as football moved on past GG who demonstrated an inability to change, so it now has to Wenger.

Feeling that way in no way undermines the respect I have and how grateful I am of what GG and AW did for our Club, but both of them stayed on too long. I hope against hope that Wenger calls it a day.

[fakeyank]

So why does Wenger stay? Honestly. Why not fuck off to PSG? I honestly can't understand why a proud, stubborn man, who can say that he is the best we have had, would put up with being undermined. I mean its not as though its a money thing. What is Wenger's motivation if he is being manipulated?

:gp:

Amen brother.

[Power n Glory]

Only just watching MOTD.

Bar RVP and Rooney, that Man Utd team is bloody average. But they're still able to push for the title.

[saintnickle]

Wenger has lower quality players than he used to have when we were good.

It's as simple as that.

He isn't any less of a manager now then he was in 1998.

The team HE created has been gutted. Cesc, RVP, Nasri etc all sold year after year. NO manager in the world could cope with that year after year and would have fucked off as soon as we didn't pay Ashley Cole what we promised him. Wenger is a great man and manager. The players are not so great. He's not a miracle worker.

He should have walked years ago and I'm sure he wishes that he did.

One of the biggest problems i see is that wenger cant change the tactics or the team personell when the situation dictates.Fergie wasnt frightened to sub rafael after 30 min even though the player was angry and hurt by it.He did it for the good of the team .This is something wenger wouldnt do for fear of upsetting the player.He even waited till the usual 70th min before bringing off santos even though he knew he was a liability.These arent the decisions of a tactical genius more of a man who cant deviate from a set plan.

[BOBN]

I don't know where you draw the line, but it has to be well before selling your captain to Man Utd. I wonder if there is anything Wenger won't do for his share of the pie. Even if he only treats this as a job, how can you respect a man that can't stand up to his employers after 16 years of service?

Wenger has no breaking point and will continue to carry out humilating tasks as long as money is thrown his way. He's a sell-out and a pussy and he needs to fuck off.
best post.

all this "does he have the money" is irrelevant now. hes totally complicit and theres no need to over-think why. 7 million per annum.

[BOBN]

So why does Wenger stay? Honestly. Why not fuck off to PSG? I honestly can't understand why a proud, stubborn man, who can say that he is the best we have had, would put up with being undermined. I mean its not as though its a money thing. What is Wenger's motivation if he is being manipulated?
PSG are not messing about. they wouldnt tolerate barren spells and will expect to do very well in the champions league.

nobody else would pay wenger this much for this long and he knows it.

[BOBN]

Totally agree, his 1st team was based on Graham's defence, Parlour's work rate and Bergkamp's brilliance, Wenger found some top players to bring in but he needed those other players, we've seen the state of the defence when there's noone to organise it.
get the fk out of here "parlours work rate". parlour was nothing in that side compared to the vieira-petit axis.

youre probably the same type of person who thinks jenkinson is a passable player.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Wenger has lower quality players than he used to have when we were good.

It's as simple as that.

He isn't any less of a manager now then he was in 1998.

The team HE created has been gutted. Cesc, RVP, Nasri etc all sold year after year. NO manager in the world could cope with that year after year and would have fucked off as soon as we didn't pay Ashley Cole what we promised him. Wenger is a great man and manager. The players are not so great. He's not a miracle worker.

He should have walked years ago and I'm sure he wishes that he did.

:gp:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

get the fk out of here "parlours work rate". parlour was nothing in that side compared to the vieira-petit axis.

youre probably the same type of person who thinks jenkinson is a passable player.

I think what Zimm means is that you needed Players like Parlour, who worked hard. May not have been as good as the rest but did a job when needed and yo could count on him nonstop.

We don't have players like that, it seems when the likes of Santi and co don't put effort in no one else seems too. The players need motivational players like Parlour etc.

[Power n Glory]

get the fk out of here "parlours work rate". parlour was nothing in that side compared to the vieira-petit axis.

youre probably the same type of person who thinks jenkinson is a passable player.

Petit and Veira can't be overlooked. They were a menace and protected our back four well and if you got through them you still had the four horsemen of apoolypse to deal with. Those were the days. But I doubt those guys would have worked their socks off if guys like Parlour weren't around. They wouldn't have been the players and if things were different and they had walked into this sort of mess we are now seeing, they'd have been shit players.

[Özim]

get the fk out of here "parlours work rate". parlour was nothing in that side compared to the vieira-petit axis.

youre probably the same type of person who thinks jenkinson is a passable player.
Parlour was no Petit or Vieira but his workrate was important none the less, he was part of the machine....not the same amount of talent as the other guys but despite that he more than made up for it by busting a gut every time he played.

[BOBN]

Petit and Veira can't be overlooked. They were a menace and protected our back four well and if you got through them you still had the four horsemen of apoolypse to deal with. Those were the days. But I doubt those guys would have worked their socks off if guys like Parlour weren't around. They wouldn't have been the players and if things were different and they had walked into this sort of mess we are now seeing, they'd have been shit players.
is this the same parlour who ridiculed glenn hoddles back room staff (that faith healer)?

oh hes a local lad so he must be good/a role model

no, he had a good season that year but he was totally replaceable. vieira and petit would have been just fine without him.

go back to buying quality rather than giroud, gervinho, chamakh, podolski and nobody would be worrying about passion.

[BOBN]

Parlour was no Petit or Vieira but his workrate was important none the less, he was part of the machine....not the same amount of talent as the other guys but despite that he more than made up for it by busting a gut every time he played.
he was park of the machine, correct. nothing was "based" on ray facking parlour.

[BOBN]

I think what Zimm means is that you needed Players like Parlour, who worked hard. May not have been as good as the rest but did a job when needed and yo could count on him nonstop.

We don't have players like that, it seems when the likes of Santi and co don't put effort in no one else seems too. The players need motivational players like Parlour etc.
the days when workers could have made the difference are gone. that was the fabregas, rvp, nasri and an in form arshavin era were we had the quality but all bar RVP were lazy for me.

now we simply dont have the quality. workers wont save our forward line, which imo is worse man for man than swanseas. pablo hernandez and michu would walk into this side and id take dyer over oxlade and gervinho.

[GP]

is this the same parlour who ridiculed glenn hoddles back room staff (that faith healer)

Quite right too!

Fuckin mumbo jumbo.

[Kano]

Only just watching MOTD.

Bar RVP and Rooney, that Man Utd team is bloody average. But they're still able to push for the title.
because they are one of two 'better' average teams in an average league.

[Kano]

I can understand why, but Wenger has traded off his reputation and legacy for too long now. He and the footballing world should acknowledge that with our patience, Gooners have shown him complete respect. If we are not showing it so much now, its because we feel disillusioned and sad that our confidence has been displaced.
it's a fundamental human flaw - not knowing when to stop or realising when your best years have passed. some people have it but most people don't. it's times like this when you need a loved one or someone close to pull you aside and say 'you know what mate, the games up. go enjoy your retirement and let someone take it from here'.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Only just watching MOTD.

Bar RVP and Rooney, that Man Utd team is bloody average. But they're still able to push for the title.

Spot on, Its only thanks to RVP the mancs have been good. Imagine had we kept him. We'd be up there by now. Even Rooney has been woeful by his standards, or thats the real him all along. If not for RVP they'd be no where.

the days when workers could have made the difference are gone. that was the fabregas, rvp, nasri and an in form arshavin era were we had the quality but all bar RVP were lazy for me.

now we simply dont have the quality. workers wont save our forward line, which imo is worse man for man than swanseas. pablo hernandez and michu would walk into this side and id take dyer over oxlade and gervinho.

True.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

because they are one of two 'better' average teams in an average league.

Spot on were are so lucky the quality of this league has been por this season, otherwise we could have been on to some beatings tbh.

[Power n Glory]

is this the same parlour who ridiculed glenn hoddles back room staff (that faith healer)?

oh hes a local lad so he must be good/a role model

no, he had a good season that year but he was totally replaceable. vieira and petit would have been just fine without him.

go back to buying quality rather than giroud, gervinho, chamakh, podolski and nobody would be worrying about passion.

It's a combination of quality and pride - that is what we need in the squad. Ridicule players like Parlour all you want, but that old school Arsenal squad helped teach the new players the traditions of Arsenal and the English league. Man for man, our team is better than Swansea and it shouldn't be a case that we need new signings to beat Swansea and Norwich. Is that what it's come down to? We need to spend an extra £50m-£60m to beat these teams? Wenger has lost the dressing room and I can't see why it's us that need to spend money to beat these teams while Norwich and Swansea can operate and a show string budget and beat us convincingly.

All teams lose in football to lower leage opposition but this has become a pattern for us and i really don't know when we'll hit good form again. Wenger has poor motivational skills and that's why we need players that can call for discipline and focus on the pitch and in the dressing room while Wenger does his arm around the shoulder therapy stuff. I thought we had those players with Verms, Arteta and Merts in the squad but I get the feeling something broke when we agreed to sell RVP to Man Utd, sold Song and still haven't sorted out Theo's contract, three of our best performers from last year wiped out in a matter of months.

Wenger doesn't learn and he did this shit with Flamin and Hleb. That broke the team spirit and caused bitter in fighting. He did it again with the sale of Cesc and Nasri. The team were totally flat at the start of the season but we gathered confidence when the club bought Arteta and Merts on deadline day. In fact, that lifted us all a bit and it looked like we were heading in the right direction for once. I was prepared to give Wenger more time to develop this squad. But then the idiots go and mess things up with the sale of our captain and midfield powerhouse. They have well and truely broken the squads spirit and fans. I'm not surprised to see the team struggling now because it's sheer incompetence on display.

[Özim]

he was park of the machine, correct. nothing was "based" on ray facking parlour.
You're really harsh on Parlour, I saw his 1st game for us and thought he was brilliant then, his work rate and engine were a real asset.

Not the most talented I agree, but he gave us a lot with his chasing back, tackling and forward runs...I'd take him and put him in this team in a heartbeat and he was an important part of that winning team as well.

[Özim]

Spot on, Its only thanks to RVP the mancs have been good. Imagine had we kept him. We'd be up there by now. Even Rooney has been woeful by his standards, or thats the real him all along. If not for RVP they'd be no where.


True.
Once again though Ferguson plays a big part, he signed RVP and of course makes the team perform beyond their capabilities.....and he openly criticises them when they don't perform as he thinks they shoud and credit to him for that.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Once again though Ferguson plays a big part, he signed RVP and of course makes the team perform beyond their capabilities.....and he openly criticises them when they don't perform as he thinks they shoud and credit to him for that.

Won't disagree on that. look at the goals they have conceeded yet they are still top of the league. We keep RVP im telling you the confidence remains, Santi and Poldi look good happy days.

From Stan to the fans just seems to be this negatitvity all around. Its horrible to think our fans fight each other at matches. Not good days tbh not good days.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

he's a wanker in a long line of wankers.

an absolute pussy with no backbone. he's the type of person who sleeps with every part of his body under the covers in case the monster comes out at night and eats his feet if he leaves them uncovered.

an anorexic, delusional bitch for the corporate quo.

[BOBN]

It's a combination of quality and pride - that is what we need in the squad. Ridicule players like Parlour all you want, but that old school Arsenal squad helped teach the new players the traditions of Arsenal and the English league. Man for man, our team is better than Swansea and it shouldn't be a case that we need new signings to beat Swansea and Norwich. Is that what it's come down to? We need to spend an extra £50m-£60m to beat these teams? Wenger has lost the dressing room and I can't see why it's us that need to spend money to beat these teams while Norwich and Swansea can operate and a show string budget and beat us convincingly.
I can honestly say I dont see how we have better players back to front than Swansea, certainly not in the forward areas and thats where games are won. Pablo Hernandez for me is considerably better than every single on of our forwards (inc wingers), Rangel is superior to any full back at the club bar Sagna who cant stay fit etc

plus I accept the rest of your point about lacking spirit and so on.

wenger is finshed in so many ways its frightening.

[Power n Glory]

Let's not get carried away here. Swansea are a well oiled machine and function like a team. If Wilshere, Kos, Verm, Sagna, Walcott, Cazorla...etc were integrated into their system and had back to back seasons playing under former manager Rogers, they'd be a lot higher up the table.

At the moment, we have collection of individual players and no team. There is no cohesion or unity and that is why Swansea play better than us.

[Ernesto]

Is this the argument about Wenger's previous successes being able to buy him time with the club and see out any remaining years on his contract? (Apologies if not) Thing is, I was thinking about this very thing and trying to relate it to Liverpool under Benitez. Even Hicks and Gillett (the best a man can get) could see that Benitez had lost it and needed another man to take the club forward, in spite of Rafa's previous successes in the Champions League and FA Cup. This, in arguably Liverpool's worst period running as a football club. Two bumbling fools who couldn't get on and knew as much about "soccer" as Alex Ferguson knows sobriety STILL had the wherewithal to sack Benitez because they knew it was the correct decision.

I think the only way our money-obsessed club will have the wake-up call to sack Wenger is through empty seats and fewer fans coming through the turnstiles at the Emirates. It's a little more difficult with Arsenal, methinks, seeing as there are always supporters waiting in the wings for seats and 60,000 brand new fans could fill out the stadium in the space of a week.

Horrible scenario all round with the club at the moment :(

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Just where are those supposedly 60k brand new fans coming from? I thought most modern day fans were glory hunters, and since there's no glory to be had around these parts, I find this revelation to be quite shocking.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Just where are those supposedly 60k brand new fans coming from? I thought most modern day fans were glory hunters, and since there's no glory to be had around these parts, I find this revelation to be quite shocking.

It be interesting to know how many prawn sandwich bridgade fans we have and how many passionate fans out of the 60,000

[Özim]

I don't know how there can be a waiting list to pay the highest prices around and yet get to watch dogshite on the pitch with no real effort and hunger from the players.

It's like going to the Fat Duck and being served a McDonalds Burger.

[Kano]

I don't know how there can be a waiting list to pay the highest prices around and yet get to watch dogshite on the pitch with no real effort and hunger from the players.

It's like going to the Fat Duck and being served a McDonalds Burger.
it's market prices. the fish and chips are stupid prices BUT people still buy them because they can afford to. the club know they can charge that price. anything like cigarettes, alcohol, shit food and things like football will always survive as people want an escape. its all that hope/mystery and fantasy bs that we wrap up into our minds about these things that will always make them seem desirable and most importantly for the fucks selling them, essential.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I don't know how there can be a waiting list to pay the highest prices around and yet get to watch dogshite on the pitch with no real effort and hunger from the players.

It's like going to the Fat Duck and being served a McDonalds Burger.

I go because I'm an Arsenal fan and I love my Club.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I go because I'm an Arsenal fan and I love my Club.

As any football fan should go to watch their team.

[Özim]

I go because I'm an Arsenal fan and I love my Club.
That's a contradiction.

[Xhaka Can’t]

No it is not.

I may fall in and out of like with the Club and its direction, but I'll always love it. Being an Arsenal fan is a part of who I am.

[Özim]

You (the fans) putting money into the shareholders pockets is bad for the club, that's what allows them to treat the fans with contempt and get away with all the things they get away with. Until they realise it's not a gravy train they can just take for granted nothing will change.

Whether you like it or not that's the reality.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You (the fans) putting money into the shareholders pockets is bad for the club, that's what allows them to treat the fans with contempt and get away with all the things they get away with. Until they realise it's not a gravy train they can just take for granted nothing will change.

Whether you like it or not that's the reality.

No its the fans who buy season tickets year upon year cause they can and don't turn up to game every week who are bad. Its the fans (prawn sandwhich brigade) who just go there cause its like a nice day out for them.

Fans like GB and WW and Ach, go because they love the club, they go because they have seen some amazing times at the ground. They don't go because they believe in what the club is doing. I agree fans need to make a stand, but ours love this club too much do do that. Which is where some get sucked in.

[Injury Time]

You (the fans) putting money into the shareholders pockets is bad for the club, that's what allows them to treat the fans with contempt and get away with all the things they get away with. Until they realise it's not a gravy train they can just take for granted nothing will change.

Whether you like it or not that's the reality.
You got Sky?

[Xhaka Can’t]

You (the fans) putting money into the shareholders pockets is bad for the club, that's what allows them to treat the fans with contempt and get away with all the things they get away with. Until they realise it's not a gravy train they can just take for granted nothing will change.

Whether you like it or not that's the reality.

The reality is I am an Arsenal fan through good and bad - I may go less as a form of protest, but I'll never stop completely. Unless you are someone who lives trhe matchday experience, you'll never know or be able to comment on what it means. Through Arsenal, I've had some of the most enjoyable days of my life - experiences I'll take to my grave. I've met wonderful friends and share great times with them - now I share these times with my son and even in recent years the vast majority of matchdays have been positive.

[Özim]

No its the fans who buy season tickets year upon year cause they can and don't turn up to game every week who are bad. Its the fans (prawn sandwhich brigade) who just go there cause its like a nice day out for them.

Fans like GB and WW and Ach, go because they love the club, they go because they have seen some amazing times at the ground. They don't go because they believe in what the club is doing. I agree fans need to make a stand, but ours love this club too much do do that. Which is where some get sucked in.
It's all the same in the end, it's money in their pockets, they don't care how it gets there.

[Özim]

You got Sky?
No

[Olivier's xmas twist]

No

Zimm :bow:

Not putting money into Arsenal or Sky sports Pockets.

[Özim]

The reality is I am an Arsenal fan through good and bad - I may go less as a form of protest, but I'll never stop completely. Unless you are someone who lives trhe matchday experience, you'll never know or be able to comment on what it means. Through Arsenal, I've had some of the most enjoyable days of my life - experiences I'll take to my grave. I've met wonderful friends and share great times with them - now I share these times with my son and even in recent years the vast majority of matchdays have been positive.
You can meet wonderful friends anywhere to be honest, just because you've met some through football it doesn't make them any different to meeting friends in other ways.

If you're getting what you want out of this that's fair enough, clearly you've had some great times (again those who don't watch football would say they've had some of the best times doing something else) but it then surely means you're getting what you want and it isn't so much about the club (which is fine too), the truth is though that until the money stops rolling in for them they'll take all of this for granted an never have any interest in the fans concerns.

I don't have a problem with the through thick and thin approach, this is however slightly different for me, it's basically money men doing whatever they want with no repercussions, this isn't the old we're going through bad times on the pitch issue, it's to do with people who don't give a sh*t about what happens on the pitch...it's not football.

I supported Arsenal through the Graham days and we had some bad times too, but that never bothered me, I really enjoyed that period (despite what some might say) you win some you lose some.....what does is people taking the p*ss and not giving a damn about football or the fans.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It's all the same in the end, it's money in their pockets, they don't care how it gets there.

Not saying they don't care how it gets there. Im saying not all fans go because they love the club or are passionate. Some see it as a day out. Some have season tickets but won't even go.

[Letters]

Fans like GB and WW and Ach, go because they love the club.
:(

[Xhaka Can’t]

You can meet wonderful friends anywhere to be honest, just because you've met some through football it doesn't make them any different to meeting friends in other ways.

If you're getting what you want out of this that's fair enough, clearly you've had some great times (again those who don't watch football would say they've had some of the best times doing something else) but it then surely means you're getting what you want and it isn't so much about the club (which is fine too), the truth is though that until the money stops rolling in for them they'll take all of this for granted an never have any interest in the fans concerns.

I don't have a problem with the through thick and thin approach, this is however slightly different for me, it's basically money men doing whatever they want with no repercussions, this isn't the old we're going through bad times on the pitch issue, it's to do with people who don't give a sh*t about what happens on the pitch...it's not football.

I supported Arsenal through the Graham days and we had some bad times too, but that never bothered me, you win some you lose some.....what does is people taking the p*ss and not giving a damn about football or the fans.

Like I said, if you don't go, you won't understand. Through Arsenal, I've met and become friends with people from backgrounds so varied that I never otherwise would have - and really it is that that is worth more than any trophy the Club will ever win.

Where else will I meet a Bangladeshi from Indianapolis?

[Letters]

Where else will I meet a Bangladeshi from Indianapolis?
Indianapolis


:coffee:

[Xhaka Can’t]

:(

How was your prawn sandwich yesterday?

[Ernesto]

The reality is I am an Arsenal fan through good and bad - I may go less as a form of protest, but I'll never stop completely. Unless you are someone who lives trhe matchday experience, you'll never know or be able to comment on what it means. Through Arsenal, I've had some of the most enjoyable days of my life - experiences I'll take to my grave. I've met wonderful friends and share great times with them - now I share these times with my son and even in recent years the vast majority of matchdays have been positive.

You've touched on something there, GB. Hypothetically speaking, if Arsenal fans suddenly decided to completely boycott one home game, do you thinks THAT will be what makes the board stand up and realise that something is desperately wrong?

In reality, this is very difficult to accomplish. I know Manchester City did it a few years back (when they were shit), but that was at Bolton Wanderers, because they bemoaned the high ticket prices at the Reebok. An away ground is easier avoid than your home turf.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Indianapolis


:coffee:

He's moved!

[Letters]

How was your prawn sandwich yesterday?
Expensive :(

But super super quality.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:(

Oh and Letters too.

[Letters]

:patrice:

[Özim]

Where else will I meet a Bangladeshi from Indianapolis?
Isn't that more due to this board though?

[GP]

Where else will I meet a Bangladeshi from Indianapolis?

Dell technical support?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't have a problem with the through thick and thin approach, this is however slightly different for me, it's basically money men doing whatever they want with no repercussions, this isn't the old we're going through bad times on the pitch issue, it's to do with people who don't give a sh*t about what happens on the pitch...it's not football.

I supported Arsenal through the Graham days and we had some bad times too, but that never bothered me, I really enjoyed that period (despite what some might say) you win some you lose some.....what does is people taking the p*ss and not giving a damn about football or the fans.

You keep going on about the Graham days. Football has changed loads since then. Not only with our club but all over. Its all about making money no matter which club your at. Only diffrence is most clubs don't show they are doing this.



this isn't the old we're going through bad times on the pitch issue, it's to do with people who don't give a sh*t about what happens on the pitch...it's not football.

Its not a bad going through bad times on the pitch, its going through bad times at the club. This is the lowest i have been as a gooner. Not all fans are older then me you and know about the GG days Early AW days. This is what they grow up with and see it as a bad time.

[Xhaka Can’t]

You've touched on something there, GB. Hypothetically speaking, if Arsenal fans suddenly decided to completely boycott one home game, do you thinks THAT will be what makes the board stand up and realise that something is desperately wrong?

In reality, this is very difficult to accomplish. I know Manchester City did it a few years back (when they were shit), but that was at Bolton Wanderers, because they bemoaned the high ticket prices at the Reebok. An away ground is easier avoid than your home turf.

Any business - and lets face it, whatever we think of Arsenal, the Board regard it as a business, would have to take note of something so extreme. But there are many daytrippers who would likely take up the tickets we don't. A way of hitting the club without cutting your nose off to spite your face, is to not buy anything at the stadium or any merchandise.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Dell technical support?

I have a HP computer.

[Özim]

You keep going on about the Graham days. Football has changed loads since then. Not only with our club but all over. Its all about making money no matter which club your at. Only diffrence is most clubs don't show they are doing this.




Its not a bad going through bad times on the pitch, its going through bad times at the club. This is the lowest i have been as a gooner. Not all fans are older then me you and know about the GG days Early AW days. This is what they grow up with and see it as a bad time.
Yeah football has changed but there's not many clubs that treat their fans with so much contempt without really giving them anything. You could say Chelsea, but then they go out and sign top players and have won stuff over the years (so the fans get something out of it).

We basically get told to like it or lump it, there's no real investment, players are sold and the management basically telling us we know nothing and that they are doing things the right way (despite this being clearly not the case) and all this whilst charging the highest prices.......no other club does this.

This is not the same as winning and losing, this is the people at the top rolling in it and not giving a sh*t about football, it's not about the club struggling, football not being important to the guys at the top is a very bad thing.

[GP]

I have a HP computer.

http://www.trelleborg.com/upload/IndAVS/Images/News/2008-01-30-Trelleborg%20IAVS%20appoints%20Key%20Account%20Man ager%20in%20India.JPG

Hello, thank for you callings HP, my names is Stephen

[Özim]

Any business - and lets face it, whatever we think of Arsenal, the Board regard it as a business, would have to take note of something so extreme. But there are many daytrippers who would likely take up the tickets we don't. A way of hitting the club without cutting your nose off to spite your face, is to not buy anything at the stadium or any merchandise.
I agree with you and that's a problem, but for me the attitude they show is of people who just assume the money will keep rolling in whatever the fans think, no normal company can operate like this or they would soon find they'd have no business.

[Niall_Quinn]

Any business - and lets face it, whatever we think of Arsenal, the Board regard it as a business, would have to take note of something so extreme. But there are many daytrippers who would likely take up the tickets we don't. A way of hitting the club without cutting your nose off to spite your face, is to not buy anything at the stadium or any merchandise.

The slimy ****s would just announce the attendance as 60,030 and roll on. Wenger would say we lacked a little bit supporters. Stan would get a refund off the cops and save money giving the cleaning staff the week off. Then they sit down and have a meeting to figure if there was a way to sue the fans for breach of contract.

[Injury Time]

You got Sky?


No
Fly Emirates?

[Letters]

I agree with you and that's a problem, but for me the attitude they show is of people who just assume the money will keep rolling in whatever the fans think, no normal company can operate like this or they would soon find they'd have no business.
In business's it makes sense to maximise income and reign in expenditure.
People keep buying the tickets and merchandise, Wenger's done enough to keep us top 4 while making a profit in the transfer window.
Everyone's happy. Except the fans, but football clubs have an advantage over other businesses - brand loyalty. If Sainsbury's double their prices I'll go to ASDA. If Arsenal do then I'm not going to become a Spurs fan. My only option is to withdraw my custom - but for my dad I would have done that although I don't buy the shirts any more so I don't give them any more than I need to.
Until income starts to drop there's no reason Arsenal the business would change anything.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yeah football has changed but there's not many clubs that treat their fans with so much contempt without really giving them anything. You could say Chelsea, but then they go out and sign top players and have won stuff over the years (so the fans get something out of it).

We basically get told to like it or lump it, there's no real investment, players are sold and the management basically telling us we know nothing and that they are doing things the right way (despite this being clearly not the case) and all this whilst charging the highest prices.......no other club does this.

This is not the same as winning and losing, this is the people at the top rolling in it and not giving a sh*t about football, it's not about the club struggling, football not being important to the guys at the top is a very bad thing.

Regardless of all that going on this is still a low for the club its the worst we have been on the pitch, so its a bad time for the club and its fans.

This is why fans care, its nothing to do with those upstairs, its the love for the club. The club is going through a bad patch one of the worst i have seen. Maybe in a few years the fans lucky enough will grow uo to see Arsenal in a better way.


This is not the same as winning and losing, this is the people at the top rolling in it and not giving a sh*t about football, it's not about the club struggling, football not being important to the guys at the top is a very bad thing.

No but to the fans the club is struggling. Fans only want to worry about what happens on the pitch not in the boardroom/s. To me this is a bad period in Arsenal history. Even on the pitch i have never seen us be this bad and so many others would agree.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't know how there can be a waiting list to pay the highest prices around and yet get to watch dogshite on the pitch with no real effort and hunger from the players.

It's like going to the Fat Duck and being served a McDonalds Burger.

2 diffrent things. You go to a place like that and get treated in a bad way, then its easy to not go there again, football is not easy to walk away from.

[Özim]

In business's it makes sense to maximise income and reign in expenditure.
People keep buying the tickets and merchandise, Wenger's done enough to keep us top 4 while making a profit in the transfer window.
Everyone's happy. Except the fans, but football clubs have an advantage over other businesses - brand loyalty. If Sainsbury's double their prices I'll go to ASDA. If Arsenal do then I'm not going to become a Spurs fan. My only option is to withdraw my custom - but for my dad I would have done that although I don't buy the shirts any more so I don't give them any more than I need to.
Until income starts to drop there's no reason Arsenal the business would change anything.
I agree with you, so it's not just another business, it's a licence to print money with (in our case) no repercussions for not keeping the customers happy.

I totally agree that until income drops nothing will change, but income won't drop if the stadium is full every week, catch 22.

[Özim]

Fly Emirates?
No, it's a ripoff have you seen their prices?

[Özim]

Regardless of all that going on this is still a low for the club its the worst we have been on the pitch, so its a bad time for the club and its fans.

This is why fans care, its nothing to do with those upstairs, its the love for the club. The club is going through a bad patch one of the worst i have seen. Maybe in a few years the fans lucky enough will grow uo to see Arsenal in a better way.
It's not a low time for the club at all, there's more money than ever, record profits and happy board members getting richer, the club is in a very very healthy place.....just not on the pitch.

There's a big difference between struggles for the club and what we're seeing now, we're not stuggling, we're choosing not to try and improve.

[Xhaka Can’t]

No, it's a ripoff have you seen their prices?

That is why I'm flying Royal Brunei.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It's not a low time for the club at all, there's more money than ever, record profits and happy board members getting richer, the club is in a very very healthy place.....just not on the pitch.

There's a big difference between struggles for the club and what we're seeing now, we're not stuggling, we're choosing not to try and improve.

of course its a low time for the club, im not talking about what the board etc are doing. Im talking from the fans point of view. This is the lowest a lot of fans would have been well in this era anyways.

When i say clud i don't mean the board or what money they make, i mean Arsenal as in the name.

[Özim]

of course its a low time for the club, im not talking about what the board etc are doing. Im talking from the fans point of view. This is the lowest a lot of fans would have been well in this era anyways.

When i say clud i don't mean the board or what money they make, i mean Arsenal as in the name.
Then it's a low time for the fans not for the club, there's a difference (the club is in a great place).

This isn't good times bad times as I said before, it's very different it's self inflicted as the club have a choice.

[Injury Time]

No, it's a ripoff have you seen their prices?
Not used the Arsenal membership discou....oh right...
Used Bettson?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Then it's a low time for the fans not for the club, there's a difference (the club is in a great place).

This isn't good times bad times as I said before, it's very different it's self inflicted as the club have a choice.

The club is not in a great place. The owner and those who have made money, are in a great place. thats the diffrence. The club was here before all these people and it will be after these people.

If this is not good times, then winning the league Champions league etc would not make a diffrence (lets just say we did) it will just be the money making people still making money.

The club is at its low, which is why ever paper, ever former player will tell you that. the clun and does who work for the club are not 1 in the same.

The reason's you have listed are why its a low time for the club in its history.

[BlindFaith_8]

The board that includes Wenger have become filtthy rich from the Arsenal FC gravy train, they don't give a fcuk about me and you and the other 60,000 regulars at the Emirates being ripped of every season paying the highest prices in the country to watch a load of bollox. Wenger has a % of the player sales in his contract, so apart from his staggering 7.5 mill per season salary, I guarantee you he is making an additonal 5 mill plus all going to his offshore bank account in Monaco or Zurich. Even if half the season ticket holders did not renew thier ST's, the board know there are another 30K Arsenal fans, the johnny come latelys ready to splash the cash and inherit the season ticket. We are in a lose lose situation.

[Kano]

You (the fans) putting money into the shareholders pockets is bad for the club, that's what allows them to treat the fans with contempt and get away with all the things they get away with. Until they realise it's not a gravy train they can just take for granted nothing will change.

Whether you like it or not that's the reality.
as i've said to you many times now, its so easy to say that as an internet supporter.

you have forgotten what it is like to be a fan going to a game. that's another reality you can't see.

[Kano]

Yeah football has changed but there's not many clubs that treat their fans with so much contempt without really giving them anything. You could say Chelsea, but then they go out and sign top players and have won stuff over the years (so the fans get something out of it).
we've had a century, they've had a decade. i'd hedge my bets to day they're not too happy right now.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The board that includes Wenger have become filtthy rich from the Arsenal FC gravy train, they don't give a fcuk about me and you and the other 60,000 regulars at the Emirates being ripped of every season paying the highest prices in the country to watch a load of bollox. Wenger has a % of the player sales in his contract, so apart from his staggering 7.5 mill per season salary, I guarantee you he is making an additonal 5 mill plus all going to his offshore bank account in Monaco or Zurich. Even if half the season ticket holders did not renew thier ST's, the board know there are another 30K Arsenal fans, the johnny come latelys ready to splash the cash and inherit the season ticket. We are in a lose lose situation.

This is what happens when upstairst you kick out those who loved the game, with those who only care about business. Then you have the likes or Friar and Hillwood, who once loved the game seem to be waiting for retirement. Danny Fiszman must be turning in his grave to see the way things had turned out.

[BOBN]

in american sports they have a minimum total salary "floor" to prevent the owners bleeding the teams dry by taking the money while serving up a plate of shit.

american owners will be american owners. theyre just doing what they do.

[Marc Overmars]

as i've said to you many times now, its so easy to say that as an internet supporter.

you have forgotten what it is like to be a fan going to a game. that's another reality you can't see.

You're there to support the team and lose yourself in the moment.

I support Arsenal Football Club, not Wenger, the board or any other individuals. It's not easy to cut out something irrational like supporting a club. I don't go reguarly but the times I do go leave me wanting to go again and again.

[Özim]

we've had a century, they've had a decade. i'd hedge my bets to day they're not too happy right now.
Maybe not but do you reckon they'd swap seats with us?

I doubt it.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Maybe not but do you reckon they'd swap seats with us?

I doubt it.

Yes.

Not all their fans but some will. You only have to listend to Chav fans moaning about their club on radio to see some ain't happy.

[Özim]

Yes.

Not all their fans but some will. You only have to listend to Chav fans moaning about their club on radio to see some ain't happy.
Don't make me laugh, they sign top players are higher in the league and have won stuff in the last 7 years including the CL.

There's no way in hell they'd swap with us, we're lying 10th and barely spend a penny.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Don't make me laugh, they sign top players are higher in the league and have won stuff in the last 7 years including the CL.

There's no way in hell they'd swap with us, we're lying 10th and barely spend a penny.

Yes because everything is about winning trophy's not all Chelsea fans think like you. Listen to Talk sport 606 and then you see what i mean.

And im talking about history not the last 10 years, we have won more then them in our history.

[Özim]

Yes because everything is about winning trophy's not all Chelsea fans think like you. Listen to Talk sport 606 and then you see what i mean.

And im talking about history not the last 10 years, we have won more then them in our history.
That's such a load of cr*p to be honest, football fans are fickle a few wins and all is forgotten a few defeats and it's the end of the world, given the chance they'd never swap with us because the reality is we're not competitive, don't bring in quality players, never make any changes and settle for 4th place......no Chelsea fan would be happy with what we put up with.

Sure we have history and that's great, but ask Liverpool fans what that means right now? In addition we've never won the biggest prize the CL.

Chelsea fans aren't happy that Benitez is in charge, but a few wins and it will all be forgotten and come next season when a new man comes in and improves things all will be well.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That's such a load of cr*p to be honest, football fans are fickle a few wins and all is forgotten a few defeats and it's the end of the world, given the chance they'd never swap with us because the reality is we're not competitive, don't bring in quality players, never make any changes and settle for 4th place......no Chelsea fan would be happy with what we put up with.

Sure we have history and that's great, but ask Liverpool fans what that means right now? In addition we've never won the biggest prize the CL.

Again im not talking about the roman era im talking about history. They had not history before Roman took over fact. We have a better history, not sure why you keep bringing up what they keep buying its irrelvant to the convensation.


.no Chelsea fan would be happy with what we put up with. know all of them by history, just you cause fickle glory hunter don't mean they all are.

Lets just agree to disagree.

[Özim]

Again im not talking about the roman era im talking about history. They had not history before Roman took over fact. We have a better history, not sure why you keep bringing up what they keep buying its irrelvant to the convensation.

know all of them by history, just you cause fickle glory hunter don't mean they all are.
Again noone gives a toss about history to be honest, it's nice to know your club did this and your club did that but the present and future is what matters most...the stuff I brought up is very relevant, I don't live in the past and neither do most people.

Fickle glory hunter? Please I was supporting Arsenal even in the difficult times with Graham etc and loved it, Chelsea fans had Harding bringing in money and loved him and loved all the spending before Abrahmovic as well, would they want to go back to no spending and winning jack sh*t....not of course not. This cr*p about glory hunting is tiresome to be honest, every fan at a big club wants success....those are the expectations, so yeah they are all glory hunters if that's what you want to call them or else they wouldn't have wanted Grant or Scolari out.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Again noone gives a toss about history to be honest.

Says it all. ill end this convo here.

[Özim]

Says it all. ill end this convo here.
Not really no, that's the reality, sure people look back at how great it was and how winning this was good (and it is great) etc but people want to see success in the present day and that will count for more than success 50 years ago to them, history is no substitute.

Do Real fans sit there happy they won x trophies 10 years ago or do they crave success now? Are Liverpool fans happy they won trophies in the 80's or would they rather they won trophies in the present day?

You sound just like Wenger, living on past glories, you live on past glories when the present offers no success for you talk about.

[Kano]

Maybe not but do you reckon they'd swap seats with us?

I doubt it.
i think they'd take wenger over rafa.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Not really no, that's the reality, sure people look back at how great it was and how winning this was good (and it is great) etc but people want to see success in the present day and that will count for more than success 50 years ago to them, history is no substitute.

Do Real fans sit there happy they won x trophies 10 years ago or do they crave success now? Are Liverpool fans happy they won trophies in the 80's or would they rather they won trophies in the present day?

You sound just like Wenger, living on past glories, you live on past glories when the present offers no success for you talk about.

Not sure what your on about, I never said anything you said i did so stop twisting shit. No one cares about history? your the one who bangs on about the Graham days.

Im not living in the past, cause im not talking just about trophy's we won i'm talking about the things we have seen in our history as gooners. History is not just winning stuff its about things we have seen as fans and things we have been through. Not sure why you keep going on like trophy's are the be all and end all.

Please don't go on like you know every football fans mind cause you don't. Just because you like trophy's and its all you care about does not mean everyone or every chelsea or utd. Barca, Real fan is like you.

You asked if Chelsea fans would swap place with us, Better question how many Arsenal fans would swap place with them, not many if any.


Do Real fans sit there happy they won x trophies 10 years ago or do they crave success now? Are Liverpool fans happy they won trophies in the 80's or would they rather they won trophies in the present day?

Liverpool fans are very happy about thier history, they bleat on about it 24/7 more or less. Madrid fans of course they remember their history. Compared to Chelsea and City these clubs will always be bigger clubs because of their history's. Winning the CL once does not make you a big club.

I never said they did not want success now, so stop twisting my words please.

If it was not for our history, then no arsenal fan would be upset with the way the club is being run.

[LDG]

You asked if Chelsea fans would swap place with us, Better question how many Arsenal fans would swap place with them, not many if any.

:gp:

I'd rather go down on Ivan Gazidis.

[Kano]

chelsea have had a wonderful decade of success built by a man who couldn't give a shit about them, a bit like us, except they have the trophies.

but that approach can't last forever and their club is now as toxic as ours, because their steep, quick climb means their lows are sharp and very hard going. Ours is bad right now but it has taken a long time to get here and we at least have a way out of it in the future. will chelsea? hopefully not. it's hard to see their fans stomaching this shit every season.

[Niall_Quinn]

History? I give a shit about history. It's the history that distinguishes between the remarkable clubs and the also rans. Real Madrid are just Wimbledon FC without their history, Liverpool's history can't be bought for any amount of money as a certain Russian is discovering. It's not ALL about history, but without the history what's the point of supporting one team? Just support the team at the top week by week and switch when they drop. After all, without the history what connects you to one club? Nothing, so no fans, no tribes no rivalries just the last result and the last trophy. What a great sport that would be. Not even the chav fans want that and a lot of them will have grown up in Amramovich fantasy land.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

History? I give a shit about history. It's the history that distinguishes between the remarkable clubs and the also rans. Real Madrid are just Wimbledon FC without their history, Liverpool's history can't be bought for any amount of money as a certain Russian is discovering. It's not ALL about history, but without the history what's the point of supporting one team? Just support the team at the top week by week and switch when they drop. After all, without the history what connects you to one club? Nothing, so no fans, no tribes no rivalries just the last result and the last trophy. What a great sport that would be. Not even the chav fans want that and a lot of them will have grown up in Amramovich fantasy land.

Spot on.

[Cripps_orig]

Should have left in 2004. He was never going to repeat or top the Invincibles. We or anyone else is not going to do that for a very long time if ever but to see how far we have fallen from the Invincibles is Wengers legacy. The man who destroyed the club he himself made through greed, stubborness and being a ****. A lesson to all young managers there. Do what Wenger done for the first 8 odd seasons of his Arsenal career then do the exact opposite for the next 8 to continue on the success.

[LDG]

You don't half talk some bollocks :lol:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Liverpool fans are very happy about thier history, they bleat on about it 24/7 more or less.
:lol:
Quite, but that's only because we have had nothing else (bar Istanbul... which is why we go on about that too) for the last 20 years.

If your barren run continues for a while though, you lot might find yourselves in the same boat; going on and on about the Invincibles. And there's nothing wrong with that. You already do, really.
In 50 odd years time Chelsea and City fans will bleat on about Mourinho and Aguero, but they will never see how tainted and how hollow it is. Although saying that some Chelsea fans are starting to wonder if who they support is Chelsea anymore, or Abramovich FC... it's just a shame everyone else was saying that years ago.

It's no substitute for current success, that's ridiculous, but it makes it better imo.

[Grebbo]

I don't really get why anyone wouldn't want Abramovich as our owner instead of Stan??!!

Sure, Chelsea FC isn't a football club anymore it's a rich man's toy but Arse is a rich man's cash cow - I'd rather we were someone's toy.

Abramovich will get bored one day and fuck off, sure. But he's written off his loans to the club and Chelsea will be sold on to the next rich man wanting a penis extension. So what?

Chelsea have had amazing success in the past 8 years and we've had sod all.

We can have all the history, young players, fancy football (which hasn't been fancy for 3yrs) and be fannying around in 8th place for the next decade.

[LDG]

Football changes so quickly, but whilst we need some change at the club, we shouldn't forget that we could quite easily look a different outfit again in a years time.

We will win something soon enough, though I don't hold out much hope that it will be Wenger in charge of that team. Who knows?!

They were fucking shit on Saturday. But I'll be sat their cheering them on this Saturday.

[Kano]

I don't really get why anyone wouldn't want Abramovich as our owner instead of Stan??!!

Sure, Chelsea FC isn't a football club anymore it's a rich man's toy but Arse is a rich man's cash cow - I'd rather we were someone's toy.

Abramovich will get bored one day and fuck off, sure. But he's written off his loans to the club and Chelsea will be sold on to the next rich man wanting a penis extension. So what?

Chelsea have had amazing success in the past 8 years and we've had sod all.

We can have all the history, young players, fancy football (which hasn't been fancy for 3yrs) and be fannying around in 8th place for the next decade.
i think you need to take a long hard look at yourself after that post.

take a break and if you still feel the same, kill yourself in a big, gay orgy.

[Grebbo]

i think you need to take a long hard look at yourself after that post.

take a break and if you still feel the same, kill yourself in a big, gay orgy.

If you think Stan is a better owner than Abramovich then you should do the same.

[Kano]

no, no i said it first, i said it first!!!

[Cripps_orig]

Grebbo is pretty much spot on

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Grebbo is pretty much spot on

No he is not. Id want none of them. All Roman has done, had made his club into a circus and all Stan has done has made this club into a business.

He'd be better of saying he wanted Usmanov then Roman.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:lol:
Quite, but that's only because we have had nothing else (bar Istanbul... which is why we go on about that too) for the last 20 years.

If your barren run continues for a while though, you lot might find yourselves in the same boat; going on and on about the Invincibles. And there's nothing wrong with that. You already do, really.
In 50 odd years time Chelsea and City fans will bleat on about Mourinho and Aguero, but they will never see how tainted and how hollow it is. Although saying that some Chelsea fans are starting to wonder if who they support is Chelsea anymore, or Abramovich FC... it's just a shame everyone else was saying that years ago.

It's no substitute for current success, that's ridiculous, but it makes it better imo.

Fair enough, but i meant Even though you'd want success Your history is important to you and you give a toss right.



In 50 odd years time Chelsea and City fans will bleat on about Mourinho and Aguero, but they will never see how tainted and how hollow it is. Although saying that some Chelsea fans are starting to wonder if who they support is Chelsea anymore, or Abramovich FC... it's just a shame everyone else was saying that years ago.

Yep, Fact they are booing Rafa and saying the owner has ruined the club, not all are happy as most seem to think. As for City fans tbf to them they are just enjoying the ride and i guess most are still shocked at where they are.

[Power n Glory]

Le Grove. Worth a read.

Some very good points.


Morning Grovers, let’s crack straight in to today’s post, no light hearted quips about the weather.

A few points raised about the game at the weekend.

We’re heading into a new era of football. Their are a number of reasons Wenger can’t cope at the moment, the biggest issue I fear is his age. That, combined with his reluctance to embrace the future and the realities of football in 2012.

When he took over at Arsenal, he was the man who raised the bar in the Premier League. He understood the importance of fitness and technical ability. He changed the regime at Arsenal, he stopped alcoholics drinking, he gave the best players more money and he supplemented winners with more winners. The result? A strong team of experienced leaders that had the magical flair of a continental side.
What was Ferguson’s response? Change. He brought in Carlos Queiroz. What happened to Arsenal over the next few years? Nothing. Ferguson dominated. Arsene had two more great league wins after 1998, still with the core of experienced heads. Every time, they were marked with a change by Alex Ferguson. Every time Arsenal won the Premiership, there was a response. An acceptance change had to occur, be that backroom staff or players.
Now we’re in the post Mourinho era. There are no experienced winners in the side. The legacy of any winning team has disappeared because Wenger sold them all off. He didn’t keep anything in the changing room for a rainy day. He hasn’t changed his backroom team. There’s very little know how in the side we have at the moment. When I say ‘know how’, I mean people who have been here through the good times and the bad. People who lead in the dressing room. People who manage themselves.

So are the players the only reason we’re struggling? No. The other reason we’re not what we used to be and the other less spoken about reason the Premier League seems to be of a lower standard is because of the teams below. Back when Arsene rocked onto the scene, lower league teams couldn’t match the big teams for fitness. You would turn out against players who’d been on the p*ss the night before. If you didn’t destroy them with quality, you’d certainly destroy them with fitness.

There’s a new type of manager coming through. Managers like Michael Laudrup, Paul Lambert, Chris Hughton, Brendan Rodgers who all understand the game. They all understand the benefits of technology and they all run incredibly tight ships at their clubs. Rodgers and Lambert are at new clubs, but make no mistake about it, they both have great reputations in the game and Rodgers especially will get it right at Liverpool. That was his team we played at the weekend. They passed better than us, they fought harder than us and they thought harder than us.
All those teams are now as fit as Arsenal. There’s no advantage on that front. So there is where the problem lies. We don’t always have the quality to take out these sides, because the people managing them can make up for the lack of quality with a tactical master plan. Arsenal were out smarted by a team with a £17million wage bill this weekend. The same happened at Villa and the same happened at Norwich. Teams know how to screw us. Man mark our three person midfield and force Mertesacker to do the passing. Then press our full backs, look what happened to Jenkinson. It kills out width and it kills out movement in the centre of the park. Is Arsene working on a plan to stop this killing our flow? Very doubtful. Is he asking his backroom team to address the issue? Again, doubtful.

I keept a close eye on the Presidential election. Social media marketing is my thing. Now, one of the biggest focuses for my area of business over the next year is big data. Every tweet you send, every status update you make, every comment you contribute to a blog could be insight around a brand or a passion point and it could be harvested into an insight. The brands who use that data most effectively over the next few years are going to give themselves a huge advantage over everyone else. In the months building up to the last election, President Obama recognised the need to collect all this data and make sense of it. He created a super database that mashed up online and offline data to help them accurately model where he needed to apportion budget. He won the election at a canter. The long and short of this is gut feeling is dead in marketing. Not totally, but we’re moving to a new age where creativity and decisions will all be underpinned by hard data.

Football is moving this way. Young managers get this. The days of having a feeling about how tired a player have been replaced by scientific certainty. Every single statistic about a team is logged, analysed and turned into something that can be used as an insight. But is it at Arsenal? I don’t believe so. We’re still living off the days of gut feel. Well, here’s a bit of gut feel for you. How many games has a 32 year old Arteta played so far this season? Nearly all of them to the tune of 90 minutes. How long is he going to last until he has a breakdown? Even if he stays fit, what about his mental fatigue? Wenger is still working off gut feel and that’s why he’s being outsmarted so reguarly.

Who at the club is going to challenge him on this? He’s a dictator. The club know this, which is why they should be using this down period to assess what’s going on. The players know how we operate isn’t right because they have freinds who they talk to. That’s why all our stars leave. We don’t refresh our backroom staff. If Wenger had it his way, I’ve no doubt Pat Rice would have been tied down to a forever contract like Diaby. Wenger doesn’t want to be challenged, you can see that by his comments about his 1,600 games. Sure, you used to know the way to win, but things never stand still. Technology moves on, training regimes improve and the game evolves. Ferguson delegates tasks at United, he knows he doesn’t have all the answers so he trusts his experts. That’s why he’s survived. Arsene Wenger doesn’t delegate, he’s still manning the whistle at training.

Another example of something I’m sure we don’t do. AVB was the away scout at Cheslea under Mourinho, that would involve him going out to all of the teams they were about to play, analysing how they play and feeding this information back into the manager. He’d then help put a DVD together which would be given to the players. Who is our away day man? I’m pretty sure it’s Stuart Houston. Yeah, the caretaker manager from the George Graham days. No offense to the man, but what is he going to know about the modern game? What insight is he going to bring to the table? How many Stuart Houston DVD’s have been given to the players this season?

Then there’s the scouting network. What the hell has happened there over the past few years? Is it the case that once again we’ve been caught up? No. It’s the case that we’ve been beaten again. Look at the players we’ve brought in over the past few seasons. Hardly any of them are true rough diamond gems. Why are we missing out on so many good unknown players these days? Why are other teams with less resource doing to much better on that front. What did Michu cost Swansea? Why weren’t we in for Rangel this summer for £3million. He looked like a very Arsenal like player. What about Cabaye, Tiote, Ba and Cisse? Or the players at Everton like Mirallas, Oviedo and Fellaini. We’re being out played at our own game… and rough diamonds is most certainly our MO.

I’m not saying we should be landing them all, but we’re missing out on a serious amount of good players who would vastly improve our offering for a very low price. The problem with this type of management is that even if we do climb into third, we’re not addressing the issues at the club. Each year that passes contributes another £20million to the ‘what we’d have to spend to get back to the top’ pot. Theo leaving will be a hammer blow to our squad, not because he’s the greatest player on the planet, no, it’s because he’s one of the few players we have who can take the ball round players. We’re static and pedestrian at the moment. We don’t have the flair we should have in the squad.

This is why I’d opt for the young manager option. My first choice would be Guardiola, my second would be Jurgen Kloop. Pep would relish the job at Arsenal. Why people say he wouldn’t is a total mystery to me. He’d be on £7.5m a year. That doesn’t really matter though, Pep isn’t about money, he’s about the project.
Let’s look at what makes Arsenal appealing

•Money: Some of the biggest deals in football are about to drop, plus he has £70m banked

•Training facilities: We have some of the best in the world. Don’t doubt the pulling power of this factor

•Stadium: Incredible stadium

•Legacy: Arsenal are a big club. The 4th biggest in the world. We have a deep and rich history

•Baseline: Take over from Ferguson and you’re taking over from a ‘now’ winner. Perhaps the greatest. Who’d go to Chelsea? City might be interesting but your’e on a time limit. At Arsenal you’re starting from a pretty low baseline. The only way is up. Nothing modern is being trialled.

•Control: We have a history of giving autonomy to our managers. This is another huge pulling factor

•Time: We’re about the long term with our managers. You know there won’t be any knee jerk reactions. He’ll be given time to impose himself on the brand.

All those above factors will ensure we get a manager of excellent pedigree. But you know what, I wouldn’t mind us picking up a manager who just had an excellent vision and a CV which showed they could do it, even at a small club.

This is the thing, do you want to sit and watch 5 more years of what we’ve been served up over the last 8? Or would you prefer to watch someone who had a passion for trying something new? I know what I want to see at the club. It’s a new project, it’s a new vision and that’s only going to happen with a young manager…

Let me know your thoughts in the comments…

[LDG]

He makes a few decent points, but I really dislike the way he writes. It's very very poor.

How can he harp on about "gut feeling" when he says "Is Arsene working on a plan to stop this killing our flow? Very doubtful. Is he asking his backroom team to address the issue? Again, doubtful".

That's his gut feeling isn't it?

Fromwhat we're led to believe, AW is too heavily involved in data and statistics, and too little gut feeling.

I'm not sure where this guy is going with his piece, but it's not very good.

[Grebbo]

I think writing off Stuart Houston as a nomark who's unable to asses the upcoming opposition is pap. We do provide DVD's of upcoming opposition for the players. I've read our players talking about it.

You can compress that blog post into a few paragraphs that sum up Wenger:

When he first came to England there was no competition other than Man U - now 99% of teams in the Prem are decent and have decent managers. In years gone by Wigan would have somebody like Jim Smith in charge. Now they have a very astute, hungry young buck playing continental football.

When he first came to England he had the entire French market to himself. Other teams scouting has caught up or overtaken ours.

When he first came to England the only team he couldn't compete financially with was Man U and the only team more attractive to join than us was Man U. Now there are three or four more attractive clubs to join with bigger budgets.

It's game over, the glory days are long gone. 4th spot is a good season for the foreseeable future unless an English Messi comes through the ranks.

[Power n Glory]

But where is the evidence of any of this on the pitch. Squad selection and tactics suggest otherwise. We've only just invested that fitness tech which tells us if players are in the red but how much attention is being paid to that? I heard Wenger say Wilshere was in the red when playing two seasons ago but he played him until he was broken. Other the weekend he mentioned Giroud being in the red but he's one the players that gets rotated often while Arteta plays all the time he has got to be in the red by now.

One of Cesc's complaints before leaving was that we didn't watch enough tapes on the opposition. Maybe we're getting more tapes in but it's pretty useless if we're still playing in the same way and selecting the same team.

[Grebbo]

Wenger's tactics have never been his strong point. All this analysing is pointless.

The simple fact is we are not as good now than we were before because we have less good players.

It's as simple as that.

Mourinho, Pep, Klopp would all get this team into top four but would they win us the league without needing to spend fortunes? I personally don't think so.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger's tactics have never been his strong point. All this analysing is pointless.

The simple fact is we are not as good now than we were before because we have less good players.

It's as simple as that.

Mourinho, Pep, Klopp would all get this team into top four but would they win us the league without needing to spend fortunes? I personally don't think so.

It's not if you think someone is actually providing tapes of the opposition but we're still playing in the same way. That says a lot.

[gooners]

i think you need to take a long hard look at yourself after that post.

take a break and if you still feel the same, kill yourself in a big, gay orgy.

tt,

if you were able to buy arsenal and you did, and you had so much money to burn, what would you do?

[Grebbo]

It's not if you think someone is actually providing tapes of the opposition but we're still playing in the same way. That says a lot.

Well we started the season well enough and now we're doing shit. It's mainly to do with the quality we have in the final third - which is shit. No tapes of the opposition is going to help our lack of quality in the final third.

If Manure didn't buy RVP their fans would be questioning Fergie big time right now.

In the Prem it's all about the final third. This is the first year in Wenger's 15 years that we haven't got one world class player in the final third. That's why we're struggling. We don't have one world class player in the team.

[Power n Glory]

Well we started the season well enough and now we're doing shit. It's mainly to do with the quality we have in the final third - which is shit. No tapes of the opposition is going to help our lack of quality in the final third.

If Manure didn't buy RVP their fans would be questioning Fergie big time right now.

In the Prem it's all about the final third. This is the first year in Wenger's 15 years that we haven't got one world class player in the final third. That's why we're struggling. We don't have one world class player in the team.

We didn't start the season well. Look at the results. The lifeless performance we're seeing now where we struggled to create chances was there from the opening two games where we drew 0-0. And no, it's not all about the final third because in past seasons where we've scored loads and opened teams up we've had a leaky defence.

So adapting to the opposition what help our game? I don't believe that because it's exactly how teams have been able to shut us down this season and in the past. You have to employ some sort of tactic and it would help if we knew our oppenents weaknesses.

[Xhaka Can’t]

tt,

if you were able to buy arsenal and you did, and you had so much money to burn, what would you do?


I'd have Letters killed.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We didn't start the season well. Look at the results. The lifeless performance we're seeing now where we struggled to create chances was there from the opening two games where we drew 0-0. And no, it's not all about the final third because in past seasons where we've scored loads and opened teams up we've had a leaky defence.

So adapting to the opposition what help our game? I don't believe that because it's exactly how teams have been able to shut us down this season and in the past. You have to employ some sort of tactic and it would help if we knew our oppenents weaknesses.

The sqaud is poor has been from the start of the season, all that is happening is a case of selling out best players and not repacing them. It does not matter what formation you play. Players like Ramsey/Gev etc will always let you down.

Had we had the quality then its a diffrent story. have to agree with Grebbo on this.

[Xhaka Can’t]

If the squad is good but not deliverieng - that is down to Wenger.

If the squad is poor - that is down to Wenger.

[Grebbo]

Well we won at Liverpool and drew away to City. We played well. City captain said Arsenal are the best team City have played against all season.

There's no point us going back and fourth as we wont agree. I'm one of these people who thinks finishing 3rd in this league is a success - you're not.

I believe having a world class attacking third is 90% of winning the league. City and Manure have both been criticised for having crappy defences this season yet they're first and second. Why? Because their world class attacking third will win them games 90% of the time

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If the squad is good but not deliverieng - that is down to Wenger.

If the squad is poor - that is down to Wenger.

:gp:

[Fats]

Wenger is fucked in the head.

I said 5 seasons ago that we will never win anything under him again. I thought his projects were brainless and self indulgent.

He has failed and has to move on.

Simples

[Power n Glory]

Well we won at Liverpool and drew away to City. We played well. City captain said Arsenal are the best team City have played against all season.

There's no point us going back and fourth as we wont agree. I'm one of these people who thinks finishing 3rd in this league is a success - you're not.

I believe having a world class attacking third is 90% of winning the league. City and Manure have both been criticised for having crappy defences this season yet they're first and second. Why? Because their world class attacking third will win them games 90% of the time

And if you look back in past seasons, you'll see that our goal record has always been on par with what the top guy get but our defensive record has always been way below par and mid table teams have much better records in comparison sometimes. We need a balance but we're terrible in all positions at the moment.

A far as quality goes and tactics..Man Utd have had an average squad for 3 seasons now! Fergie is somehow able to adapt with what he has. He'll switch formations and try two up front, one up front, a flat four across the middle or three in the middle...it all depends on his squad selection. I can't recall him playing Hernandez out on the flanks doing wing play for example. He wouldn't play Scholes, Anderson or Carrick on the wing. Certain players just can't adapt that way because it's not in their makeup.

Gervinho as a line striker and Ramsey out on the flanks? Senseless.

[Özim]

i think they'd take wenger over rafa.
That wasn't the question.

[Marc Overmars]

Poor squad or not, when there's precious little life in any of the performances we see you have to wonder whether the manager has lost the dressing room. Players stabbing him in the back every year should suggest Wenger does not carry the sort of aurora he used to.

[Özim]

Grebbo is pretty much spot on
I agree, people use to go on about how Chelsea will be in sh*t when he gets bored.....he's not got bored and if he does leave Chelsea will be desirable enough to attract another buyer with money.

Would you rather be bled dry and win nothing or see big players come into the club and chase success albeit under an owner who considers the club his to tinker with.

I prefer the latter personally, we get nothing for our money, Chelsea fans at least see top players and success.

[Özim]

:lol:
Quite, but that's only because we have had nothing else (bar Istanbul... which is why we go on about that too) for the last 20 years.

If your barren run continues for a while though, you lot might find yourselves in the same boat; going on and on about the Invincibles. And there's nothing wrong with that. You already do, really.
In 50 odd years time Chelsea and City fans will bleat on about Mourinho and Aguero, but they will never see how tainted and how hollow it is. Although saying that some Chelsea fans are starting to wonder if who they support is Chelsea anymore, or Abramovich FC... it's just a shame everyone else was saying that years ago.

It's no substitute for current success, that's ridiculous, but it makes it better imo.
Totally agree with this, I'm not knocking history as it's great but at the end of the day if you're sitting there winning nothing for years on end it really can't replace success in the present.

[Power n Glory]

If the squad is good but not deliverieng - that is down to Wenger.

If the squad is poor - that is down to Wenger.

Over such a long period it's really hard to conclude anything else. These type of performances and bad streaks have become all to common. It gets to the point where you can't keeping focussing on weak individual players like Denilson, Djouoru, Senderos, Bendy, Hoyte...those players are now gone and we're seeing the same lacklustre stuff from experienced players now.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Poor squad or not, when there's precious little life in any of the performances we see you have to wonder whether the manager has lost the dressing room. Players stabbing him in the back every year should suggest Wenger does not carry the sort of aurora he used to.

Pretty much, too many players calling the shots off the field and not doing enough on it. Tv 5 looks like He don't know what is happening. Our vice captain seems to be trying his best to lif this lot but to no avail.

Then you get players like Theo who demand all this money, then perform like they did against Swansea. Wenger has fucked up big time, but that does not give these players an excuse to under perform.

[Özim]

No he is not. Id want none of them. All Roman has done, had made his club into a circus and all Stan has done has made this club into a business.

He'd be better of saying he wanted Usmanov then Roman.
A circus, debatable but even if that is true Chelsea fans have seen unparalled success under him, winning the biggest trophies and seeing the best players at the club.

What have we seen? I'll tell you, sales of our best players, cheap replacements, the highest ticket prices, a manager who can do whatever he likes with no repercussions and not even a tin pot trophy to collect our tears in.

Would Chelsea swap the last 7 years with ours, I think not, as I said they've even won the CL which we've never managed which in theory elevates them above us in Europe.

[Cripps_orig]

Wenger is fucked in the head.I said 5 seasons ago that we will never win anything under him again. I thought his projects were brainless and self indulgent.He has failed and has to move on.SimplesI hate it when Fats is proved right :(

[Olivier's xmas twist]

A circus, debatable but even if that is true Chelsea fans have seen unparalled success under him, winning the biggest trophies and seeing the best players at the club.

What have we seen? I'll tell you, sales of our best players, cheap replacements, the highest ticket prices, a manager who can do whatever he likes with no repercussions and not even a tin pot trophy to collect our tears in.

Would Chelsea swap the last 7 years with ours, I think not, as I said they've even won the CL which we've never managed which in theory elevates them above us in Europe.

Probs not. Does not meanid want him here, He treats that club like his play thing, he sacked Robbie beecaue he would not play Torres, what type of man does that.

You keep comparing us to Chelsea, why not compare Chelsea to man utd.

Would Utd fan ever trade place with Chavs since roman came in, no way. Im sure Utd fans want the best players and to spend money like Chavs have, but their way has been awesome and its much more respectable.

Why would we want Roman when we have Usmanov anyways.

[Özim]

You keep comparing us to Chelsea, why not compare Chelsea to man utd.

Would Utd fan ever trade place with Chavs since roman came in, no way. Im sure Utd fans want the best players and to spend money like Chavs have, but their way has been awesome and its much more respectable.
Man U never came up.

But no they wouldn't but then they've been more successful than Chelsea and have continued to win, they can take the moral high ground here as they have maintained success, the difference is we haven't, we've just gone backwards willingly, no real effort to succeed just a defeatist attitude, Wenger an co tell us we can't compete so we don't bother trying.

What a great attitude to have, if everyone thought like him noone would ever overcome the odds or beat the best through hard work and devotion in any sport, they'd just give up and have burgers, chips and milkshakes every day and tell everyone they can't compete 4th is the best they can get.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Man U never came up.

But no they wouldn't but then they've been more successful than Chelsea and have continued to win, they can take the moral high ground here as they have maintained success, the difference is we haven't, we've just gone backwards willingly, no real effort to succeed just a defeatist attitude, Wenger an co tell us we can't compete so we don't bother trying.

What a great attitude to have, if everyone thought like him noone would ever overcome the odds or beat the best through hard work and devotion in any sport, they'd just give up and have burgers, chips and milkshakes every day and tell everyone we can't compete 4th is the best we can get.

No they don't, they tell us we can compete but don't show the ambition to match their words. Like i said, i love the way Utd are run and what they have achieved has been amazing and done through hard work. If i was to swap the last 10 years then it would be with them.

[Özim]

No they don't, they tell us we can compete but don't show the ambition to match their words. Like i said, i love the way Utd are run and what they have achieved has been amazing and done through hard work. If i was to swap the last 10 years then it would be with them.
Have you listened to them moaning about money etc, we've heard all the excuses and money is one of them. Wenger goes on about it all the time, which I find somewhat hypocritical when he's picking up a bigger salary than anyone else for achieving nothing, money in the game is bad unless he gets it it seems, I see he doesn't talk about ticket prices either, interesting.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Have you listened to them moaning about money etc, we've heard all the excuses and money is one of them.

Im not talking about Ivan going on about not being able to compete with City etc Finacially. Im taking about comments they make, like we can win the league. We want to be the best.

We can't bid £50 mill for a player like city or chavs can that is not moaning its fact. Problem is We don't need too, we just need to shape the sqaud handsomely.

[Özim]

Im not talking about Ivan going on about not being able to compete with City etc Finacially. Im taking about comments they make, like we can win the league. We want to be the best.

We can't bid £50 mill for a player like city or chavs can that is not moaning its fact. Problem is We don't need too, we just need to shape the sqaud handsomely.
I don't think we want to be best, not really. Sure if was handed to us on a plate we'd be happy with it but we won't work for it.

It's like saying you want to win choosing your numbers but not buying the ticket, or you want to be the best tennis player in the world but don't want to practice......not gonna happen.

Actions speak louder than words my friend.

[Kano]

tt,

if you were able to buy arsenal and you did, and you had so much money to burn, what would you do?
do about what, i don't understand the full extent of your question?

[Kano]

A circus, debatable but even if that is true Chelsea fans have seen unparalled success under him, winning the biggest trophies and seeing the best players at the club.

What have we seen? I'll tell you, sales of our best players, cheap replacements, the highest ticket prices, a manager who can do whatever he likes with no repercussions and not even a tin pot trophy to collect our tears in.

Would Chelsea swap the last 7 years with ours, I think not, as I said they've even won the CL which we've never managed which in theory elevates them above us in Europe.
if it meant following the same ludicrous route where a new manager is booed in his first game, following the sacking of a manger who became the first EVER manager to win the CL in London, then no thanks, i'll stick with our lot.

at least we don't have to be scared of an owner who may pull the plug any minute if we piss him off. which speaks volumes about chelsea. at least we can all stand tall if things continue, in the knowledge they we didn't have to bend down and suck off our owner just to keep him happy incase he detonates the club after too much complaining from the fans. dignity counts for more than any trophy - and it lasts far longer. i'm not that desperate for a trophy and it's a shame that you are.

things are not great for us at all but we are not some billionaires play thing who hires and fires like an xbox game, making a mockery of the club and the english game.

[Cripps_orig]

The Russian does not accept failure. That should be admired. He wants his team to be the best and will do it by any means necessary. Was the sacking of RDM harsh? Yes maybe but winning the CL was last season, this season RDM has taken his team to the verge of CL elimination in the group stage and are out of the title race. For the money he spent, that is unacceptable and Roman got rid. Roman or a billionaire like him is a massive MUst Get. Anyone who would rather we stay in the mediocrity we are in now need to take a hard long look at themselves. Football has moved on to an era of billionaires. Time we did as well.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't think we want to be best, not really. Sure if was handed to us on a plate we'd be happy with it but we won't work for it.

It's like saying you want to win choosing your numbers but not buying the ticket, or you want to be the best tennis player in the world but don't want to practice......not gonna happen.

Actions speak louder than words my friend.

I never said we want to be the best, i said its what they say. Its an example.

[Kano]

@cripps

of course but it doesn't make any of that right. their club is descending into farce and it is an accusation that can no longer be dismissed as bitterness from rival fans because of the reaction from the chelsea fans recently. they realise themselves that they look like a complete joke. yet do they have the balls to criticise the man who is undermining them? no, they take it out on the man supposed to be leading their team on the pitch. the revolving door they were all so blasé about for years has finally come full circle to smack them on the arse.

[GP]

do about what, i don't understand the full extent of your question?

I think he's saying 'Would you continue to ruin football the way Chelsea have done?'

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The Russian does not accept failure. That should be admired. He wants his team to be the best and will do it by any means necessary. Was the sacking of RDM harsh? Yes maybe but winning the CL was last season, this season RDM has taken his team to the verge of CL elimination in the group stage and are out of the title race. For the money he spent, that is unacceptable and Roman got rid. Roman or a billionaire like him is a massive MUst Get. Anyone who would rather we stay in the mediocrity we are in now need to take a hard long look at themselves. Football has moved on to an era of billionaires. Time we did as well.

There are better owners out there and ones who'd spend money too. find it funny, you and zimm were pretty much licking Robbie'd dick last season and now its ok cause he had not done well in 3 months, get a grip.

If you believe he was sacked becasuse of where they are then more fool you. He was clearly sacked because he would not play Torres like the owner wanted. Spend £50 mill on the guy, but does not want to admit he got it wrong there, when everyone can see it.

Same way Jose left cause he did not play the lad from Ukraine. No way Jose wanted to leave Chavs not for Roman he'd have stayed.

You can't compare all Russians. Usmanov said that he'd keep Aw on if he took control, so much for not accepting failure.

Problem with Roman he appoints manager's then Undermines them when it suits him, so of course managers their will loose the dressing room when the owner shows no support when he gets pissed off, cause gets proved wrong.

[Kano]

I think he's saying 'Would you continue to ruin football the way Chelsea have done?'
i'd give it my best shot, why not?

[GP]

i'd give it my best shot, why not?

If you can't beat them, use crime and corruption, leaving your own people in poverty to join them.

[Injury Time]

If you can't beat them, use crime and corruption, leaving your own people in poverty to join them.
Well the season ticket prices are a good start...

[Özim]

Well the season ticket prices are a good start...
:lol: :goodpost:

[gooners]

do about what, i don't understand the full extent of your question?

do to make the club stay competitive if you do not have worry about share value?

[gooners]

if it meant following the same ludicrous route where a new manager is booed in his first game.

as opposed to booing the manager without whom afc wouldn't be where it is now?

slippery slope

[gooners]

Well the season ticket prices are a good start...

you mean we are being robbed but in different way than abrmovich allegedly gained his wealth?

[Kano]

do to make the club stay competitive if you do not have worry about share value?
remove wenger and get in a manger that can affect what is happening on the pitch.

[Kano]

as opposed to booing the manager without whom afc wouldn't be where it is now?

slippery slope
yes because sufficient time has been allowed and paying punters should feel the right to boo after numerous performances like that. slippery slope only when you are locked into an ownership problem such as ours but there is also a line where concern for today is of more concern than tomorrow.

[gooners]

remove wenger and get in a manger that can affect what is happening on the pitch.

so with all that ridiculous wealth you wouldn't be tempted to splash any of it on the team when there is nothing preventing you from doing so?

[gooners]

yes because sufficient time has been allowed and paying punters should feel the right to boo after numerous performances like that.

despite abramovich's money, I am sure chelsea fans still pay handsomely to watch their team --- they are therefore allowed to boo a manager that is falling short of an extremely high standard.

and i suppose while 7 yrs is enough for some, one game suffices for others :good:

[Kano]

so with all that ridiculous wealth you wouldn't be tempted to splash any of it on the team when there is nothing preventing you from doing so?
as we weren't selling off our best players for the balance sheet, then we wouldn't need to go barmy, no.

[Kano]

despite abramovich's money, I am sure chelsea fans still pay handsomely to watch their team --- they are therefore allowed to boo a manager that is falling short of an extremely high standard.

and i suppose while 7 yrs is enough for some, one game suffices for others :good:
he didn't get the chance to fall short did he? it seemed to me the crowd set the tone for that game and the teams performance matched it. i'm not sure there's much too much positive thinking happening amongst chelsea fans - certainly not from what i've seen and rightly so.

anyway, i don't want to go on forever on a huge tangent about chelsea after my posts in the last page. i think we get each others stance on this so i'll leave this one here.

[gooners]

as we weren't selling off our best players for the balance sheet, then we wouldn't need to go barmy, no.

unless the club was a middle of the road one to begin with (i.e. chelsea pre-abramovich) :good:

i doubt abramovich would find the need to splash around so much if he were to acquire barcelona in it's current incarnation.

[Kano]

ah, you moved it from us to a pre-abramovich chelsea i see, fair enough. just give us a heads up next time.

[Cripps_orig]

@crippsof course but it doesn't make any of that right. their club is descending into farce and it is an accusation that can no longer be dismissed as bitterness from rival fans because of the reaction from the chelsea fans recently. they realise themselves that they look like a complete joke. yet do they have the balls to criticise the man who is undermining them? no, they take it out on the man supposed to be leading their team on the pitch. the revolving door they were all so blasé about for years has finally come full circle to smack them on the arse.Is it wrong? Probably. I aint going to disagree with you on that but I don't think what we are doing is right either so we have 2 clubs doing 2 things that isn't right. Unfortunately we picked the wrong one. Football isn't this perfect sport where everything is right. You move and adapt as the game does. Wenger hasn't and he's been a laughing stock cos of it. I don't watch Chelsea matches but I heard Roman did get some stick V West Ham. Chants of "is this what you want?" were directed to him apparently. As for Rafa, for all the shit he said about Chelsea when at Liverpool, its understandable. Plus he's a shit manager. Most if not all true gooners would be the fuck out of Pep if he came to us and rightly so so we aren't so different to the Chavs. Just better looking

[Olivier's xmas twist]

despite abramovich's money, I am sure chelsea fans still pay handsomely to watch their team --- they are therefore allowed to boo a manager that is falling short of an extremely high standard.

and i suppose while 7 yrs is enough for some, one game suffices for others :good:

Then they should boo the guy who put him there. This guy insulted their club he was hardly going to be a hit with the fans. Not that Roman gave a shit what the fans thought.

[Kano]

Is it wrong? Probably. I aint going to disagree with you on that but I don't think what we are doing is right either so we have 2 clubs doing 2 things that isn't right. Unfortunately we picked the wrong one. Football isn't this perfect sport where everything is right. You move and adapt as the game does. Wenger hasn't and he's been a laughing stock cos of it. I don't watch Chelsea matches but I heard Roman did get some stick V West Ham. Chants of "is this what you want?" were directed to him apparently. As for Rafa, for all the shit he said about Chelsea when at Liverpool, its understandable. Plus he's a shit manager. Most if not all true gooners would be the fuck out of Pep if he came to us and rightly so so we aren't so different to the Chavs. Just better looking
(this really is my last post in here on this)

if the recent events at chelsea - not just the sacking but more so the fans reaction - then fair enough, that is the way the game is going and we either get with it or die out. its up to us as fans if we wanna sign up for that or not.

i'm not even sold on the idea that money guarantee's you success. of course it bloody well makes it easier but i also want to credit the players and their management for doing so. at chelsea and city i can't knock the players work ethic or any of the managers that have lifted a trophy - winning requires more than just money and success comes from hard graft.

so i'm not railing against the money issues but the demand for instant return is always there and if you keep changing the formula with a new manager every single time, then at some point, it will not work out. its just the same as hiring a manager on a long term basis, as that unknown factor is always there but at least with the long route you give yourself room in the playing field for alternatives if things do not work out. how long before chelsea run out of 'top tier' managers through having employed them all or scared the rest away? it sounds ludicrous but look at it, is it really so far away? chelsea fans are becoming fed up of being seen as the ****s of the game, yet have trapped themselves into watching their own team become a toy.

[Xhaka Can’t]

No they would not. Any gooner that did that would need to stop watching footie for good.

He means Madrid supporters.

Kind of how you'd feel if Redknapp came in to manage your Club.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He means Madrid supporters.

Kind of how you'd feel if Redknapp came in to manage your Club.


Most if not all true gooners would be the fuck out of Pep if he came to us

Unless he means if Rafa came to us, or he means we'd boo Pep.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Another thread veering off for no reason. Keep it civil guys.

[StamfordBrdige]

Don't make me laugh, they sign top players are higher in the league and have won stuff in the last 7 years including the CL.

There's no way in hell they'd swap with us, we're lying 10th and barely spend a penny.

It's actually not that straightforward Zimm.

This is my lowest point as a Chelsea fan (since 96). I guess i'd be super facking pissed off if i was an arsenal fan however Roman has really gone over and beyond with the recent situation. I've never known Chelsea fans to be this pissed off and to not give a fuck.

For the 1st time since he got here a few fans are now saying that he should get the hell out of the club and i can see where they are coming from.

The problem with the arsenal & chelsea situation is that we as fans aren't going anywhere. Like Letters said, it's not like switching from ASDA to Tesco or something. Until we get a german style 50+1 club ownership thing going on this kind of stuff can and will happen.

To answer the question, would i swap with you guys. I suppose not however that's not really saying much as both options really suck.

My hope is that Jose wins La Liga (i don't like Barcelona), leaves Real Madrid and returns to the bridge at the end of the season. Hopefully this time Roman will get the fuck out the way and fucking let him manage the damn team.

[StamfordBrdige]

i think they'd take wenger over rafa.

Not sure i would TBH. He'd drive the bridge mad with some of his decisions and continous talk of sharpness, spirit + 4th being a trophy and all that.

Fuck it, just bring in Moyes and have done with it.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Another thread veering off for no reason. Keep it civil guys.

Sorry.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Not sure i would TBH. He'd drive the bridge mad with some of his decisions and continous talk of sharpness, spirit + 4th being a trophy and all that.

Fuck it, just bring in Moyes and have done with it.

Never happen, Roman would never let that happen.

[StamfordBrdige]

Never happen, Roman would never let that happen.

Good point.

[StamfordBrdige]

Would be quite hilarious if Rafa gets sacked before the end of the season. The LOL factor would be off the fucking charts.

[Joker]

Yeah I doubt Chelsea fans would accept a manager with such limited ambitions as Wenger. At the same time I don't think Wenger would accept the job since he likes football clubs to be run like small businesses.

[Kano]

Not sure i would TBH. He'd drive the bridge mad with some of his decisions and continous talk of sharpness, spirit + 4th being a trophy and all that.

Fuck it, just bring in Moyes and have done with it.
fair enough. going by your responses i think its fair to say that you no longer look the more attractive option between the two clubs.

arsenal fans banging on about trophies and investment at chelsea being the better option need to wake up a little and see the road it has taken you down too.

[Grebbo]

You gotta feel a bit sorry for old Arsene. The haters will bang on about a cushy life on £7m a year but it is MUCH harder to stay at one club for 15yrs compared to being an impact manager like Mourinho who moves on every couple of seasons. Arsene had many offers to leave for bigger and better things when he was hot property but he stayed out of loyalty (cynics would argue he stayed because it was the easy option and he'd have been found out at a big club - I think that's a cheap shot but we'll never know).

Arsene should have moved on 5 years ago. He would certainly of had a better 5yrs but I don't think Arsenal would have done.

[StamfordBrdige]

fair enough. going by your responses i think its fair to say that you no longer look the more attractive option between the two clubs.

arsenal fans banging on about trophies and investment at chelsea being the better option need to wake up a little and see the road it has taken you down too.

I don't think that's entirely fair. Investment and wanting trophies aren't the reason Chelsea are in a quagmire. We are in a mess cos our owner seems to be a petulant person with the patience of a child who interfers in shit he shouldn't and then gets upset with others when his interference causes things to go tits up.

If you have an owner who is a bit more patient and doesn't get in the managers way but sets firm goals then things can go well.

[Kano]

I don't think that's entirely fair. Investment and wanting trophies aren't the reason Chelsea are in a quagmire. We are in a mess cos our owner seems to be a petulant person with the patience of a child who interfers in shit he shouldn't and then gets upset with others when his interference causes things to go tits up.
usually the alternative of chelsea's approach has been suggested as proof to why your fans are a lot happier with your lot but what i'm getting is that along with that, you've got an owner who can ruin that in a drop of a hat, as he seems intent on doing atm. i've no problem with the investment part - as it takes more than that to win things - but what i was saying is that all is far from rosy in your garden right now and it provides food for thought for those thinking having an owner similar to ambro is a guaranteed route to sustained success. worryingly, it seems as if man city's owners have got their heads screwed on and are not using the club for some sort of personal adventure.

[Grebbo]

We are in a mess cos our owner seems to be a petulant person with the patience of a child who interfers in shit he shouldn't and then gets upset with others when his interference causes things to go tits up.

If you have an owner who is a bit more patient and doesn't get in the managers way but sets firm goals then things can go well.

This isn't why you're in a 'mess' this is the reason you've been very successful for the past ten years.

[Marquis de Carabas]

The conundrum our club has become is one of great annoyance and great wonder to me, its one that fans of other clubs just can’t comprehend and one that poorly informed football pundits love to throw ill constructed sound bites of bullshit and hyperbole at.

It’s an interesting thread as most seem to want Wenger (and the board) out but the varying degrees of hatred thrown at him are astounding. Some seem to want a man who won us 3 league titles, 4 FA cups and Remi Garde burned at the stake. Some thank him for everything he has done and wish him well.

Most agree the team isn’t good enough but do we mean quality or application? And its this for me that is the underlying issue with our club. We have the ability, the quality, the money, the infrastructure and the facilities what we don’t have is the leadership and nuance to apply it correctly. We are like a one-eyed sniper; we always shoot just wide of the target.

I don’t see much difference between our transfer activity now and back when we were good, I don’t see any difference in the tactical approach or the substitutions either, they are still crap. I don’t see any difference in diet, fitness; squad size or any of the other things Wenger “invented” either. I just see that everyone else caught up, and in some cases overtook us. We used to be able to hand pick the best youngsters from around the world, now we are way back in the cue. Do you think if Patrick Vieira had been stuck in Milan’s reserves now we would be his first choice? Of course not. It’s the same with Henry, Anelka and all the rest.

While everyone else was improving we were banking to pay for the stadium, while the sugar daddy’s were buying clubs ours was at a baseball game stroking is perfectly formed tash. While the comolli’s and Arnesen’s were tapping up our players, our tapperupperer…was counting his silver coins.
Change the manager, please, but a change in application of resource is needed more and until the board either die or get usurped nothing will change.

And no, bringing David Dein back is not the answer…his son is an agent you know…Alex Song and Sami Nasri’s agent…

[Özim]

Arsene should have moved on 5 years ago. He would certainly of had a better 5yrs but I don't think Arsenal would have done.
He's the manager if his team don't deliver it's down to him, you make it sound like he's been hard done by.

Had he gone somewhere else the job would have been riskier for sure, Real wouldn't have put up with his cr*p and after a season of not winning anything he might have found himself out of a job. It was all very good when he knew markets better than anyone else, nowadays though he's not exactly the messiah when it comes to spotting top players, if anything he's spent badly in recent years.

[Grebbo]

He's the manager if his team don't deliver it's down to him, you make it sound like he's been hard done by.

Well he stayed loyal to Arsenal or couldn't be arsed to move to Real Madrid cos he'd be found out - depending on which side of the fence you sit on.

Either way it's like you're working for Amstrad and get offered a job at Apple but you stay at Amstrad for whatever reason.

He is the manager and it is his team but he has significantly less resources to build his team compared to the competition.

He should have moved on but I still don't think we'd have been any more successful if we'd of had a different manager for the past 7 years. We won't have to wait long to see how well our next manager does compared to Wenger.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He's the manager if his team don't deliver it's down to him, you make it sound like he's been hard done by.

Had he gone somewhere else the job would have been riskier for sure, Real wouldn't have put up with his cr*p and after a season of not winning anything he might have found himself out of a job.

This is why he would have no choice but to win. The aim is diffrent he would not go there thinking he has time to build a team or he can make excuses. Its only cause he has been allowed to do that here.

He goes to a team like PSG. He'd have no choice but to spend money he won't have the chance to be like he has here. But lets be honest Madrid sack managers for anything.

Seems like Jose will go end of this season thats just the Madrid way.

[Kano]

He should have moved on but I still don't think we'd have been any more successful if we'd of had a different manager for the past 7 years.
maybe we wouldn't be any more successful but at least we could've have avoided groundhog day every other week.

[LDG]

There was something different in his eyes post match today.

[Marc Overmars]

There was something different in his eyes post match today.

Little bit resigned in the morning.

[Gervinho's Forehead]

There was something different in his eyes post match today.

How'd ya mean?

[LDG]

How'd ya mean?

Lets just say, that team tonight, was picked for a reason.

[Power n Glory]

He won't be around for much longer. The pressure will get to him.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Lets just say, that team tonight, was picked for a reason.

Elaborate?

[Özim]

Lets just say, that team tonight, was picked for a reason.
Cub scout night?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He won't be around for much longer. The pressure will get to him.

Will ?

The guy will be gone at the end of the season.

[Power n Glory]

Will ?

The guy will be gone at the end of the season.

This is the first time I've seen the media opnely question his ability. It's the first time fans have been vocal about it as well. But this is only the start. If he keeps pulling in bad results, pundits will continue to badger him and really probe as some of his silly answers. He needs to handle it better but he can't and this is only the start. If he keeps attacking the press and continues to isolate himself with that 'you English people' type talk, they're going to rip him to shreds. He needs to get a grip.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

This is the first time I've seen the media opnely question his ability. It's the first time fans have been vocal about it as well. But this is only the start. If he keeps pulling in bad results, pundits will continue to badger him and really probe as some of his silly answers. He needs to handle it better but he can't and this is only the start. If he keeps attacking the press and continues to isolate himself with that 'you English people' type talk, they're going to rip him to shreds. He needs to get a grip.

Yep the pressure is on here, he seems to be cracking up here and there, im telling you the end is nigh. Id be suprised if he is still here next season. Fans and Players have lost faith in him. He looks like he don't believe, lost his motivation. Too much pressure is not a good thing especially in sports management.

[IBK]

I feel the same way about Wenger as I felt about GG towards the end of his tenure. I've still got programme notes with Graham regularly stating that he was in the market for players but wasn't going to spend money on players that weren't any better than the ones we already had - does this sound familiar to anyone?

Don't get me wrong, but I loved GG and look back on what he achieved and how he achieved success with us with pride. But football moved on and GG did not and we progressively got worse and more and more uncompetitive - even with the great quality of the back four and a lethal striker.

I wanted GG out at that point - so it seems did the Board, but they were spineless bastards that used football bungs that were an endemic throughout football and an established part of the culture to hang him out to dry. The Board then were complete and utter ****s.

As for Rioch - what can anyone say? It looks like it was always the intention for him to be an interim Manager - what other rationale can there be for what happened? The treatment of Rioch was also compounded by the behaviour of Wright who publically treated Rioch with contempt and there were rumours that Wright even complained directly to Rioch's bosses about him.

Wenger didn't ride on anyone's success, he built on it beyond anyone's dreams to create a team that simply blew people's minds away delivering the type of success and football no one alive today has ever seen before at Arsenal.

But that was back in the day when he did innovative things such as invest in top top quality players. I don't see him ever doing that again, and just as football moved on past GG who demonstrated an inability to change, so it now has to Wenger.

Feeling that way in no way undermines the respect I have and how grateful I am of what GG and AW did for our Club, but both of them stayed on too long. I hope against hope that Wenger calls it a day.

Sorry to come so late to this, but isn't it telling that GG has been out of management since 2001. You could say that at least he acknowledge that his era was over.

[IBK]

Let's not get carried away here. Swansea are a well oiled machine and function like a team. If Wilshere, Kos, Verm, Sagna, Walcott, Cazorla...etc were integrated into their system and had back to back seasons playing under former manager Rogers, they'd be a lot higher up the table.

At the moment, we have collection of individual players and no team. There is no cohesion or unity and that is why Swansea play better than us.

Its embarrassing that Swansea played us off the park. Wenger should be ashamed.

[IBK]

Is this the argument about Wenger's previous successes being able to buy him time with the club and see out any remaining years on his contract? (Apologies if not) Thing is, I was thinking about this very thing and trying to relate it to Liverpool under Benitez. Even Hicks and Gillett (the best a man can get) could see that Benitez had lost it and needed another man to take the club forward, in spite of Rafa's previous successes in the Champions League and FA Cup. This, in arguably Liverpool's worst period running as a football club. Two bumbling fools who couldn't get on and knew as much about "soccer" as Alex Ferguson knows sobriety STILL had the wherewithal to sack Benitez because they knew it was the correct decision.

I think the only way our money-obsessed club will have the wake-up call to sack Wenger is through empty seats and fewer fans coming through the turnstiles at the Emirates. It's a little more difficult with Arsenal, methinks, seeing as there are always supporters waiting in the wings for seats and 60,000 brand new fans could fill out the stadium in the space of a week.

Horrible scenario all round with the club at the moment :(

Interesting observation.

[LDG]

Sub, not sure if you picked up on this one...but thought of you when I read it (no homo)...something you'd like I think.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8712871/arsenal-arsene-wenger-decline

[IBK]

Sub, not sure if you picked up on this one...but thought of you when I read it (no homo)...something you'd like I think.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8712871/arsenal-arsene-wenger-decline

Excellent piece mate. And particularly:


He built — this is the romantic part — a team that could play the style of football he saw in his dreams. But he did it by exploiting market inefficiencies (signing players other Premier League clubs weren't scouting), embracing globalization (stocking Arsenal with foreign players at a time when the league was still mostly English), pursuing commercial partnerships (the deal with Emirates Airlines helped defray the cost of the stadium), and obsessing over easily controlled and replicable details like dietary balance. He didn't read his players "O Captain! My Captain!"; he got them personal trainers while tinkering with the shareholders' financial report.

Everyone else has caught up....and overtaken

[LDG]

Not sure where IT got the article from, or whether he's an Arsenal dude, but sure as shit writes well.

Arseblog :rose:

[IBK]

Not sure where IT got the article from, or whether he's an Arsenal dude, but sure as shit writes well.

Arseblog :rose:

Funny - but I've had the impression recently that Arseblog feels that he has to go too far towards Wenger to be 'credible'. IMO his commercial activities have made him less of an emotional fan.

[LDG]

Funny - but I've had the impression recently that Arseblog feels that he has to go too far towards Wenger to be 'credible'. IMO his commercial activities have made him less of an emotional fan.

Yup. A distinct apologetic stance toward the manager and the board, IMO.

I get sick of "Still, we may have lost, but luckily there's another game this week, and it's time we pulled our socks up".

No shit Sherlock.

It's a bit stale, and smacks of writing for the masses, than writing from the heart.

[IBK]

Yup. A distinct apologetic stance toward the manager and the board, IMO.

I get sick of "Still, we may have lost, but luckily there's another game this week, and it's time we pulled our socks up".

No shit Sherlock.

It's a bit stale, and smacks of writing for the masses, than writing from the heart.

Agreed. I get pissed off when supporting your team becomes so anaemic. Still that's what our club has been trying to get us to do. Non?

[Joker]

Yup. A distinct apologetic stance toward the manager and the board, IMO.

I get sick of "Still, we may have lost, but luckily there's another game this week, and it's time we pulled our socks up".

No shit Sherlock.

It's a bit stale, and smacks of writing for the masses, than writing from the heart.

Agreed, I've felt this way about his blogging for over a year now. Ever since he released his book and started running competitions in partnership with the club/Fly Emirates, he's begun to deliver the "company line" and fails to deviate from it. It's not necessarily his opinion on Wenger that's particularly annoying, but the way he fails to question the activities of the board and says "it's not our concern what happens in the board room". It's clear that what happens in the boardroom has had a large impact on our failures on the pitch over the last 7 years. He has no issue abusing Usmanov but with regards to Kroenke, it's always the weasel words and phrases such as "questions need to be asked" and he conveniently never gets round to asking those questions.

[Letters]

Yup. A distinct apologetic stance toward the manager and the board, IMO.

I get sick of "Still, we may have lost, but luckily there's another game this week, and it's time we pulled our socks up".

No shit Sherlock.

It's a bit stale, and smacks of writing for the masses, than writing from the heart.He lacks a little bit of sharpness?

[LDG]

He lacks a little bit of sharpness?

There is no "a" or "of" in, lacks little bit sharpness :sulk:

[Letters]

There is no "a" or "of" in, lacks little bit sharpness :sulk:
Your face lacks a little bit quality.

[GP]

Your face lacks a little bit quality.

NO!!

His face lacks little bit quality.

[LDG]

Your face lacks a little bit quality.

Well I must tell you, your face is interesting.

[LDG]

NO!!

His face lacks little bit quality.

:haha:

[GP]

Many faces are on the list, we don't talk about specific faces.

[Kano]

Agreed, I've felt this way about his blogging for over a year now. Ever since he released his book and started running competitions in partnership with the club/Fly Emirates, he's begun to deliver the "company line" and fails to deviate from it. It's not necessarily his opinion on Wenger that's particularly annoying, but the way he fails to question the activities of the board and says "it's not our concern what happens in the board room". It's clear that what happens in the boardroom has had a large impact on our failures on the pitch over the last 7 years. He has no issue abusing Usmanov but with regards to Kroenke, it's always the weasel words and phrases such as "questions need to be asked" and he conveniently never gets round to asking those questions.
are you under contract to mention arseblog in every post?

[IBK]

are you under contract to mention arseblog in every post?

He's actually talking some sense.

[Kano]

maybe but it doesn't really matter does it? it is just a blog. it doesn't even make the list of things to be concerned about right now.

[LDG]

maybe but it doesn't really matter does it? it is just a blog. it doesn't even make the list of things to be concerned about right now.

It does. Little bit. If he's on the payroll. Look at your shiny new membership so paddy got pack up.

[Gervinho's Forehead]

It does. Little bit. If he's on the payroll. Look at your shiny new membership so paddy got pack up.

:gp:

he little bit sell out.

[Power n Glory]

It does. Little bit. If he's on the payroll. Look at your shiny new membership so paddy got pack up.

Didn't realise he was a company man. Makes a lot of sense now. Makes sense to beware of the propaganda. Not a huge problem but another there to help bamboozle the fans. Haven't been impressed with his stance on the players we've sold this summer and Theo's contract talks.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

maybe but it doesn't really matter does it? it is just a blog. it doesn't even make the list of things to be concerned about right now.

Never read his blog an never will. Don't see the importance to it tbh. Not bothered what he says i more bothered about what the club do. Everyone is entitled to their blogs, its down to the individual if he wants to read it.